Invisibility jewlery and Teleport Jewlery

[Anonymous UOPlayer]

ok now let's dump the PK vitriol & talk rationally.

here r the sides.

pro-modification side: these items were balanced once upon a time but now they aren't. the way they work doesn't fit current systems. like many legacy systems they need 2b modified 2 fit the times.

anti-modification side: these items are as old as the game & if they weren't unbalancing then y are they so now? come on now!

on the off-chance anyone cares, i actually find the pro-modification side stronger. the only reason these items stayed static, from what i 'member, is that the devs of long-ago figured they'd have long-since worn out. so need 2 address them.

as 2 dupping: it was a dumb assertion. if it is accurate (always possible!) it was made w/o real evidence other than "find another 'splanation." well we did. no less reasonable & no real way 2 determine,as yet,whos right. so i called u out. but yeah the basic points a good 1.

 

[TheDrAJ]

Sorry but I am not sure this is a good use of developer time, especially for items that are no longer available.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

Mixed feelings on this one.

+ I don't use them, I don't care if others use them, too much hassle for me, not necessary for me, yes it's saved a few opponents a few times, but who cares.
+ If others want to spend their gold on such items, fine, they are wasting their gold because they are scared to die.
+ I have benefitted from this, often PvPers forget to insure such items, I loot them and sell them back for nice gold, to them, or their opponents.

- They have to be duped, there are too many, and it is not physically possible for them to be ingame in these quantities anymore.
- This leads to the whole question of duping, how does it happen, why is there no control, whilst not serious here, it ruins the game and economy in other more important aspects.
- Is it a waste of developers time? Not in the overall context of Duping, and stopping, preventing and fixing such issues.
- For me the issue is about the inbalance of the guys at the top of the gold/economy chain who are ruining the game and it's economy due to how they got there, and their actions to get there.


Relating to adding a cooldown/cast timed to these items - I'd probably go with the school of thought that these items should be deleted from the game, they add nothing useful to it, legitimate items have no point, and it fixes another loophole for illegitimate black market activity.

 

[Cetric]

They bypass multiple game mechanics. Especially teleport rings. You can teleport while paralyzed, you can teleport while 'casting an ethy'. You can teleport while invisible. Combined with Invis items they are as unbalanced of a consumable as you can have.

They went years without being seen and then within the last year or so there's thousands. Someone's making a killing selling these things.

 

[randy]

They aren't duped my friends and family for years have been farming them to take away such an old item for the sake of pvpers would be outlandish. When do we get a say in things? Why do pvpers always try to take away what helps us earn gold in this game?

 

[King Greg]

They bypass multiple game mechanics. Especially teleport rings. You can teleport while paralyzed, you can teleport while 'casting an ethy'. You can teleport while invisible. Combined with Invis items they are as unbalanced of a consumable as you can have.

They went years without being seen and then within the last year or so there's thousands. Someone's making a killing selling these things.

I am for adding cast timer to these, but make them cast like you have protection on like wands. They have been silly for years.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

They aren't duped my friends and family for years have been farming them to take away such an old item for the sake of pvpers would be outlandish. When do we get a say in things? Why do pvpers always try to take away what helps us earn gold in this game?

When did you stop farming them?

How many castles full of them do you have?
(how many items exactly?)
- In fact I'm not sure I believe you, I think you may be an anti pvp troll, please can I see a screenie of the chests full of them you have?

How many do you sell per day?

When are they going to run out?

Logic dictates that at some point, they are going to run out.

 

[Cupid]

When did you stop farming them?

How many castles full of them do you have?
(how many items exactly?)
- In fact I'm not sure I believe you, I think you may be an anti pvp troll, please can I see a screenie of the chests full of them you have?

How many do you sell per day?

When are they going to run out?

Logic dictates that at some point, they are going to run out.

Never sold any of mine but all my toons have a bag of them in the bank and I occasionally find them in my house, not sure they will ever run out cus if they do I will get my brothers account info so I can sell his if that happens, although he was more fond of the hats and capes which I freely gave him to hoard.

 

[StarstrukK]

These items should be addressed for the simple fact that UO needs to start promoting competitive fair gameplay.

The fact that these are unobtainable for new and returning means they are at a distinct competitive disadvantage and for no game is something like that good for the game. Game balance should be a primary focus of the Dev's and unobtainable items that provide a competitive advantage need to be looked into and addressed.

 

[Keith of Sonoma]

competitive fair gameplay

? Just for starters, having seen players cast greater heals and flamestrikes "on the fly" (without EVER stopping) I think there are much more important things (actual cheats/unapproved scripts/ etc...) to look into in the name of "competitive fair game play" than worrying about some jewelry that is an item that IS legal to own. Just my opinion of course.

 

[Cupid]

Just for the Halibut I decided to see just what I had banked in regards to this.
1st char has invis earrings 58 charges, sash 85,boots 40,45
2nd char ring 4,3 and earrings 353 charges over 7 pieces
3rd char earrings 35,41,44 cloak 41,49,46,90 bear mask 60
4th char 10 rings 89 charges total, 23 rings with 321 total teleport charges, 5 invis sashes with 127 charges total and reflect spells sash 82 charges
5th char invis sash 72,65 invis hats 31,43,13 charges
6th char had nothing, must not be old enough to have found them

All these years all these things clogging my bank guess its time to sell huh, did not bother checking house contents, too much of a mess.

 

[Learn Me]

? Just for starters, having seen players cast greater heals and flamestrikes "on the fly" (without EVER stopping) I think there are much more important things (actual cheats/unapproved scripts/ etc...) to look into in the name of "competitive fair game play" than worrying about some jewelry that is an item that IS legal to own. Just my opinion of course.

lol. You'd think you could find examples of someone casting 7th level spells without stopping in one of the hundreds of videos in the last 15 years wouldn't you?

 

[Cetric]

? Just for starters, having seen players cast greater heals and flamestrikes "on the fly" (without EVER stopping) I think there are much more important things (actual cheats/unapproved scripts/ etc...) to look into in the name of "competitive fair game play" than worrying about some jewelry that is an item that IS legal to own. Just my opinion of course.

No you haven't lol, that's just not possible, and if it was it's be abused so bad it'd get fixed instantly

 

[Mervyn]

Sorry but I am not sure this is a good use of developer time, especially for items that are no longer available.

That's the point, they are available! endless supply.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

Never sold any of mine but all my toons have a bag of them in the bank and I occasionally find them in my house, not sure they will ever run out cus if they do I will get my brothers account info so I can sell his if that happens, although he was more fond of the hats and capes which I freely gave him to hoard.

You know what, I respect the legitimate pvmers like you who have a few, use them for pvm, or actually just collect them.
Nothing dodgy about that, but you know what most of the pvmers say who have a few - they keep hold of them, collect them, or use them for themselves.
Which begs the question, where are they all coming from, because it isn't you guys selling them.

He's trolling. His guild is one of the groups that uses the things like candy. Double teleport dismounts, invis teleport while hidden to mount an ethy, and spamming invis items to live on foot with 5 people dumping.

Yes, thank you for this response.
My next sentence to that guy was going to be along the lines of, maybe Developers need to check on your activities as it sounds like you are one of the dupers - but I didn't want to be that extreme to someone I didn't know, but he sounded completely fishy. He sounded like he was defending something.

That's the point, they are available! endless supply.

Yes, exactly, and as already ascertained from the chats with the pvmers here, it isn't them releasing them in an endless supply.
They are feeling quite victimised and bemused by our observations having not experienced it.

 

[THP]

All of which are PERFECTLY LEGAL as opposed to the many and numerous exploits that are currently widespread using the CC.

erm using the EC i think u will find....aka the EC gives insta speeder mode for starters...and insta suit change ... and they just for starters

 

[Keith of Sonoma]

No you haven't lol, that's just not possible, and if it was it's be abused so bad it'd get fixed instantly

I HAVE seen it several times in the past month. Both the flame strikes and casting greater heal without stopping while being chased. No offense, but I trust my own eyes more than you telling me what I have, or haven't seen.

 

[randy]

Can you prove that these items are being duped? I'm assuming not because you wrongfully classified me as a duper.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

Can you prove that these items are being duped? I'm assuming not because you wrongfully classified me as a duper.

Or someone who is benefitting from it - ie as the later poster pointed out, who knows you better than I, your guild does, therefore you have involvement and have an interest in maintaining the status quo.

I cannot prove it, I just edited my above post to accept this, before you made this post, but happy to confirm I cannot prove it.

That was the reason I asked you the questions I asked you in my first post where you took it personally.

How many castles full of these items do you have?
What rate are you releasing them into the game at?
When did your entire family stop farming them, and for how long have you been releasing these items at such a rate all the pvpers are noticing it?
Are you even selling them? Notice most pvmers actually aren't.
Do you accept that at some point, due to these things not being available ingame anymore, at some point they have to run out?
Do you think 10 odd years is enough time for us to expect a decrease in the use of these items, rather than a noticeable increase?
Why in your mind, is this not happening?

So I wasn't being personal or blaming you initially, although you were posting the usual disparaging remarks about pvpers which may have got my back up.
I was asking you to add a little light to the situation.
I agree I find your position hard to swallow, having unlimited invis items to be releasing indefinitely into the game.

 

[Lord Nabin]

I would be more open to serious discussion on things like this once the trash talk and language in general chat gets cleaned up.

This comes from the PvP community in the vast majority.

I'm fine with your play style just not the drama.

It's about as bad as can be personally I feel it turns of way more players and 2cnd generation player opportunities than any balance adjustment that the latest whatever drama is creating.

 

[Captn Norrington]

This thread has been cleaned up, and a lot of posts have been removed. The thread turned into a felucca player vs. trammel player war with accusations being thrown all over the place, plus a bunch of completely off topic posts.

This is a good discussion topic, but please stop trolling and attacking each other going forward. If it keeps continuing the thread will have to be locked, or those doing the trolling will be thread-banned, which makes it so they cannot reply to the thread at all anymore.

Hopefully the thread can now continue in a productive way.

 

[Tjalle]

Unfortunately a PvP discussion thread can never be productive as long as cheaters are allowed to voice their opinions as their only agenda is to get even more advantages ingame.
You guys can keep looking the other way but you know it´s true.

 

[Cetric]

I would be more open to serious discussion on things like this once the trash talk and language in general chat gets cleaned up.

This comes from the PvP community in the vast majority.

I'm fine with your play style just not the drama.

It's about as bad as can be personally I feel it turns of way more players and 2cnd generation player opportunities than any balance adjustment that the latest whatever drama is creating.

Much of the gen chat **** talk has cleaned up and moved to other avenues

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

This thread has been cleaned up, and a lot of posts have been removed. The thread turned into a felucca player vs. trammel player war with accusations being thrown all over the place, plus a bunch of completely off topic posts.
This is a good discussion topic, but please stop trolling and attacking each other going forward. If it keeps continuing the thread will have to be locked, or those doing the trolling will be thread-banned, which makes it so they cannot reply to the thread at all anymore.
Hopefully the thread can now continue in a productive way.

Only lost half my posts, I suppose I got off lightly.
Keep up the good work Captn Norrington.

Unfortunately a PvP discussion thread can never be productive as long as cheaters are allowed to voice their opinions as their only agenda is to get even more advantages ingame.
You guys can keep looking the other way but you know it´s true.

Damn, you lost the best post of the thread!

Much of the gen chat **** talk has cleaned up and moved to other avenues

And true this, Europa runs a public PvP Discord server I believe, so a lot of it goes in there now.
On top of the guilds running their own.

 

[Learn Me]

For some reason all of my posts with actual points related to the topic were deleted.

So point blank, here is what I think is wrong with these items and why:

-No cooldown, cast timer, or interruption. You can use these items instantly and without consequence.
-I don't know that when they were created, they dev's imagined people would have EC capabilities to instantly equip and unequip items allowing someone to spam one or multiple abilities.

Years ago you could start mounting an ethy, toggle a wand in hand, and start running at mounted speed halfway through mounting an ethy. This was fixed because it's obviously a broken mechanic. Players are capable of using an invis ring, teleport ring WHILE hidden, start mounting an ethy and teleport WHILE frozen and mounting. I can't cast, move, or use a pot if I'm frozen and casting. Why can someone teleport while hidden and mounting an ethy instantly?

Then explain why a ring should allow someone to literally stand on one tile and live dismounted through conflags, tstorms and five players attempting to kill them while an item with no casting time or cool down repeatedly invis's them?
Now explain why I can't cast a teleport through actual casting with a special toggled, but I can equip a teleport ring and it doesn't toggle my special off? Several patches of changes for other items to fix what I've just described, yet a ring or earrings can do all of these things.

These items need either a casting timer, a cool down, or to be interruptable like invis pots. Being able to tele ring while hidden on a character with no hiding stealth or ninjitsu is weird too.

 

[randy]

Been around for 20 years don't let people ruin the game because they are losing fights in pvp.

 

[Swordsman]

Sorry but I am not sure this is a good use of developer time, especially for items that are no longer available.

And also, someone thought that modification is simple, actually, once the programer touch the ancient codes, there are chances they touch other depenencies, and create other new bugs. Is really not worth the time to work on them.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

And also, someone thought that modification is simple, actually, once the programer touch the ancient codes, there are chances they touch other depenencies, and create other new bugs. Is really not worth the time to work on them.

This is the one argument I never have any sympathy for.

Just change the bloody coding, do a decent days work!
Stop being so damn lazy and making excuses.

Are we really saying people 20 years ago are more intelligent than we are today?
They could do it then, we can surely match them or do better today, people today are just lazy.

Stay up all night, work at the weekends if required, just get the damn job done.

 

[Lord Nabin]

Much of the gen chat **** talk has cleaned up and moved to other avenues

Sounds like a start however, there is plenty of work to be done. Maybe some solid leadership in the community could get this done.

 

[Great DC]

So let me get this right, some "poor" pvp player is spending 500k-1M per charge to avoid dying in UO. If they did die instead they would lose 10k insurance and some pots and apples, total 50k lets say. Instead they are spending 3-10M worth of charges to stay alive for their egos. This might be the funniest thing I ever heard. LOLOLOL.

I have a better idea, go practice and learn the game better and maybe you wont need to waste so much gold in order to survive in pvp.

Bring talent back to pvp and such items wont be discussed.

 

[Pawain]

ring talent back to pvp and such items wont be discussed.

Talent would cause PvP to be a challenge. They clearly do not want a challenge in PvP or they would not come here to complain about a new thing killing them. *cough* pets *cough*

 

[MalagAste]

So let me get this right, some "poor" pvp player is spending 500k-1M per charge to avoid dying in UO. If they did die instead they would lose 10k insurance and some pots and apples, total 50k lets say. Instead they are spending 3-10M worth of charges to stay alive for their egos. This might be the funniest thing I ever heard. LOLOLOL.

I have a better idea, go practice and learn the game better and maybe you wont need to waste so much gold in order to survive in pvp.

Bring talent back to pvp and such items wont be discussed.

Most likely it was a NON-PvPer using the items to avoid being killed and keep scrolls worth more... And it was a PvPwannabe who couldn't kill his "easy" trammy target and so is crying about the use of the items.

 

[CovenantX]

is that sarcasm?

 

[Great DC]

Most likely it was a NON-PvPer using the items to avoid being killed and keep scrolls worth more... And it was a PvPwannabe who couldn't kill his "easy" trammy target and so is crying about the use of the items.

Im quite certain its pvpers using these items, however it qualifies for the worst business decision as far as gold is concerned. These players win the dunce cap of the year, just to try to save their precious pvp ego.

 

[MalagAste]

Im quite certain its pvpers using these items, however it qualifies for the worst business decision as far as gold is concerned. These players win the dunce cap of the year, just to try to save their precious pvp ego.

I'd have to agree with you on that one... honestly... but just goes to show they will try anything... but is that winning or just another loser?

Kinda reminds me of the guys who gank someone 6 vs 1 and say they are uber PvPers.

 

[Learn Me]

Talent would cause PvP to be a challenge. They clearly do not want a challenge in PvP or they would not come here to complain about a new thing killing them. *cough* pets *cough*

Thanks for your well thought out post related to the topic of invis and teleport items. It's clear you took ample time to provide a thorough analysis of the problem presented as well as solutions to them.

 

[Pawain]

Thanks for your well thought out post related to the topic of invis and teleport items. It's clear you took ample time to provide a thorough analysis of the problem presented as well as solutions to them.

These forums are a wealth of Knowledge. And most PvPers are Fountains of Misinformation.

I see no problem with these 15 or more year old items. They use a charge when used. Working as intended.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

These forums are a wealth of Knowledge. And most PvPers are Fountains of Misinformation.

I see no problem with these 15 or more year old items. They use a charge when used. Working as intended.

No offence here, and I know this can only be taken the wrong way, but you potentially only play half the game.

It's a bit like a casual Sunday driver giving advice to a Formula 1 driver on how his gear shifts work.


The fact they stopped these items 15 years ago is a bit of a clue.
By 15 years, these items should have diminished in circulation, would you agree?

What interest or involvement do you have in these items anyway?
Do you even have a single one, do you care, have you ever used one?

Or are you just sticking your oar in to antagonise pvpers?

Think about that, pretty mean and nasty of you if you're just sticking your oar in.

 

[Mervyn]

So let me get this right, some "poor" pvp player is spending 500k-1M per charge to avoid dying in UO. If they did die instead they would lose 10k insurance and some pots and apples, total 50k lets say. Instead they are spending 3-10M worth of charges to stay alive for their egos. This might be the funniest thing I ever heard. LOLOLOL.

I have a better idea, go practice and learn the game better and maybe you wont need to waste so much gold in order to survive in pvp.

Bring talent back to pvp and such items wont be discussed.

I do not beleive that the people who are using the invis/teleport items are spending this much gold to stay alive, i beleive the cost to them is less than 10k insurance. Ater all, i've seen someone use one about 5 times in 30 seconds and still die at the end.

 

[Picus at the office]

The fact they stopped these items 15 years ago is a bit of a clue.
By 15 years, these items should have diminished in circulation, would you agree?

What interest or involvement do you have in these items anyway?
Do you even have a single one, do you care, have you ever used one?

Or are you just sticking your oar in to antagonise pvpers?

Think about that, pretty mean and nasty of you if you're just sticking your oar in.

There is a good chance that these items, like many many others, have simply been over looked and have just been collecting dust. You can see in the trading forums that people have been buying them for ages, why is for the buyer to answer. I have a few hundred charges in my houses, never to be used or sold by myself but one day some IDOC champ might list them for sale.

The game mechanics might be the real issue but I don't think that this is something we all want the team twisting code, hoping it all works well.

 

[Mervyn]

I have a few hundred charges in my houses, never to be used or sold by myself

Right, so you have some, but not selling. Someone please explain to me how 15 years after they stopped spawning, people are using them all night every night for less than the cost of death insurance.

 

[Mervyn]

yes they did, they asked for the Glenda to be nerfed, and it was.

 

[zamot]

I have quite a few of these items. I have left my accounts open and havent played all that much. I just looked and I have 3 chests full of these items. Not all the items are invis/ teleport. Some are protection and magic reflection/ Bless/strength/agility. I do think that back in the day the items were collected and towards the end of the spawn time there was no real use for them. As others have said the houses of the old players are falling and some one figured out a new use for these items. But dont the turkey feathers work the same way as the invis item? I will say that the ring does seem to work a bit odd. Boots you have to wear to activate while the ring you just double click.

Only thing I suggest is if the devs do change them to be worthless again I would want the turn in points to be what they are now.

 

[Picus at the office]

Right, so you have some, but not selling. Someone please explain to me how 15 years after they stopped spawning, people are using them all night every night for less than the cost of death insurance.

It's possible these players find the cost of use at what ever price they paid to be reasonable vs death.

I'd like to know how many people are actually using these, is it greater than 10?

 

[Mervyn]

it is greater than 10

 

[Great DC]

I don't really care if people use these items, all it tells me is that pvp is just getting worse and worse. Things like this just make me laugh a lot when I do go pvp nowadays. Why do you think no matter what shard you go to it basically the same 50 total pvpers? Its no different then people using illegal programs and outrunning you and telling you that you suck. LOLOL! The only half sorta challenge left anymore is to fight outnumbered and see how many kills you can get. All of it can easily be fixed by just having some GM's actually care about the product they work for. Oh and these aren't new to the pvp scene, people have been abusing those jewels and necklaces for years. When they are used it just makes the pvper look sad and silly.

 

[Pawain]

but you potentially only play half the game.

And have to sit back and watch stuff get nerfed because someone comes here and crys about getting killed.

How many tamers do you see at yew gate? Glenda is another example. When the BS crying stops making the developers change stuff, Ill stop replying.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

And have to sit back and watch stuff get nerfed because someone comes here and crys about getting killed.
How many tamers do you see at yew gate? Glenda is another example. When the BS crying stops making the developers change stuff, Ill stop replying.

Pvpers play the entire game, so they have a heightened interest in the game mechanics working properly.
Don't forget - PvPers play tamers, whereas many tamers don't play pvpers.
Most fun part of my game is trying to find Mervyn's tamer and pking him.
PvPers are also inbuilt to think about tamers when they suggest stuff.
I don't know if you recall, but I argued against any tamer nerf in pvp.
I didn't join in on the Glenda debate, as I did not have any experience of it to know either way.

Regarding invis and teleport items, do our suggestions affect you in any way?
A. An item that was stopped from dropping years ago, is suggested it follows current game mechanics, or gets deleted to make the game more consistent for all players - including the potential new EJ players coming in.
or
B. If some of our suspicions are correct, they are being duped, or have been duped, which leads to the question, how, why, when, by who? This is screwing the game and the economy up for both you and I. The PvPers are the one's who see the wider picture and try and point it out.

To me, all of the above, are logical, rational, calm minded, and sensible.
No crying involved?
To interpret it as crying takes some doing.

 

[Learn Me]

These forums are a wealth of Knowledge. And most PvPers are Fountains of Misinformation.

I see no problem with these 15 or more year old items. They use a charge when used. Working as intended.

Can we please do away with pets going wild?

@Pawain items working as intended as they have for 15 years. Pets going wild working as intended for forever. One affects him, so naturally he's all about being able to neglect his pets and not feed them. The other doesn't affect him so it doesn't need changing.

Resounding theme in this thread I copied is gold price for pets. Yet, the same people posting in that thread are coming in here trolling and saying so what just buy the expensive teleport rings.

Takes all of 20 seconds to wash every post you make.

 

[Pawain]

Can we please do away with pets going wild?

@Pawain items working as intended as they have for 15 years. Pets going wild working as intended for forever. One affects him, so naturally he's all about being able to neglect his pets and not feed them. The other doesn't affect him so it doesn't need changing.

Resounding theme in this thread I copied is gold price for pets. Yet, the same people posting in that thread are coming in here trolling and saying so what just buy the expensive teleport rings.

Takes all of 20 seconds to wash every post you make.

One affects him

Fine, I think they are also. I have not had a pet go wild. You wont find a post saying I have. I have seen 2 go poof. Not seen 1 go wild. I carry apples and meat in pack pack all the time. That issue does not affect me. That does not mean I don't think they should look at that issue or just make them not go wild. You need to use some reading comprehension when you follow me around. Nobody is saying the jewelry is a bug. You put it on and it uses charges. That is what it was designed to do.

Wow two perfect examples of what I said. You and Martell. Not a bit of truth in what you say.

And most PvPers are Fountains of Misinformation.