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Nuking all the game's gold is an absolute no-no. Non-negotiable. The fallout from that would justly be massive. People would also massively put their gold into items, as someone else said. It's a non-solution that would be an unprecedented and wrong move against players.
One of the best things that could be done is create massive gold sinks for the 1% in the vanity domain.
As for power scrolls: the demand has skyrocketed due to the new pet training system and new players, so just increase the supply. They supply (spawn rate) was based on just players using them. You can't just add this pet training system and keep the supply the same. Although I can see the devs might have wanted to create massive incentive to do champion spawns. Okay, but it might be still out of balance. I get that making power scrolls ubiquitous is also not good. Yet still, tune the supply somewhat at least.
One of the best things that could be done is create massive gold sinks for the 1% in the vanity domain.
As for power scrolls: the demand has skyrocketed due to the new pet training system and new players, so just increase the supply. They supply (spawn rate) was based on just players using them. You can't just add this pet training system and keep the supply the same. Although I can see the devs might have wanted to create massive incentive to do champion spawns. Okay, but it might be still out of balance. I get that making power scrolls ubiquitous is also not good. Yet still, tune the supply somewhat at least.
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Angleswings
Adventurer
That is the Best answer on all the 5 pages!
I will share "MY" Opinion.
I recently came back from a long time break. My original shard was dead, so like many others, I moved to Atlantic. All my outdated gears are pretty much garbage, specially trying to face high end Mobs. so like many others, I have no real life time, to play 4,5+ hours a day to buy the super overpriced items I need, regardless if it is scrolls, SOTs, Jewels or anything, so basic , nowadays the only way to someone that took a break for long time to get up to date, is to buy gold or the Items from those RMT sites, I know it suck, but that is the true, I dont think anyone can play this game with only 1m, 10M on their bank, just like me, I had to restart with at least 1P, I wish the ingame store would sell to us like a Tamer Package (120 Scrolls) or something, at least the money would go to the Game and not 3rd part. Someone said that a wipe out the gold would help? I dont think so, it would just help the websites to make more $$, since they have everything by the thousands available!, anyway, that was just my point of view.
Wouldn't all the gold that the RMTs have be wiped also or maybe that is the true reason for this BS so the price of gold would go back up and the RMTs could make more money from gold sells. It would not take long to get a lot back farming 27/7 now would it @Lore
I did a mystic cu with all 115’s except for the magic i went 120 mysticism(2 mil), the most a paid for any scroll was 5 mil. If you have spawned you will see that a 120 scroll drops about 1 in 5 spawns and is usually the last one im looking for. To see a tactics scroll at 50-60 mil is not too suprising. I dont know this and am meerly speculating on what I see when I am on. There are probably more iterations of the roof that get accomplished daily than completed spawns. Noone says anything about a 200 mil demon cameo. I do not like the high prices of scroll, but i dont see where the 120 is needed on every pet? The economy takes a beating when people gold farm AFK with resources driving prices way low for the average player who is clicking away honestly. It is wierd to think that i can step into a game brand new and have the resources or gold close to those that have been grinding for 20 years.
You don't ahve to wonder why. when the announcement is made that gold is gonna be wiped and started over, the prices of the people selling gold for RMT is gonna go thru the roof...gold will become the instant "ultra rare"
Makes me wonder now, about the people wanting a gold wipe...just sayin
AMEN
The economy isn't based solely on Powerscrolls. Powerscroll are not in the game for your pets, they are for you characters. If your character isn't alive your pet is worthless. @Lore has a decent idea but it cant just be a total wipe. There is plenty of ways they could gold sink the gold down easily. Town bonus is one way to effectively sink a lot of gold out the game. Remove it from the governor and make the towns a set buff and if you want to use you pay each day for it (I.E. 50k-100k) . You can also add quests kinda like the zippy one where you pay gold to get the items to key it. Lore is also correct where if there is less gold things will be worth less and therefore sell for less, think of it like a percentage not a price. There are plenty of things in the game that sell for three times as much as power scrolls that aren't in felucca (cameos, halos, slithers). Every player on a subbed account has access to all of it, if they choose not to go get their own scrolls thens that's their decision. There is no forced pvp in this game, you either choose to attempt a spawn and complete it or someone shows up to raid and you can just leave without dying or fight for it. It all comes down to decisions by the player. Now stop pretending like every suggestion is the end all for the game. This is just a discussion forum, get a grip folks.
Since the new animal training we can apply power scrolls to pets so obviously they are in the game for pets. As a matter of fact. And because of this mechanism the demand for power scrolls has skyrocketed, with a corresponding effect on the price.
Facts is Facts.
I had an account open and didn't play for 5 years. I see plenty of posters over there who clearly do not log on to UO. Have you seen some of the questions and stupid ideas there?
Wouldn't have to buy gold if prices weren't obscene.
That gold would be wiped too. They are actively banning scripters now as well. All gold would be legitimate for a while. It could creep back up just like it did this time, but with a restart where they hopefully police it better.
Gold is not going to be wiped out, lets not get crazy.
Scripters have nothing to do with the supply and demand of power scrolls and even if they did they would be helping bring the price down if they farmed them so the hate is misplaced. Price of scrolls are up because there aren't enough for all the pets people want, pure economics. That demand is rather slow to go down too because everyone insists on having a dozen or more pets, or in selling pets and starting to train a new pet over and over etc.
How about people stop spewing hate when they can't have something quickly and instantly? Figure it out and go work for it if you want it badly enough... it's pretty much the only way to earn anything in game.
Someone above said they've never had more than 80m in game. My advice is to monitor items, specifically ones you don't see very often that are above 25m in value, and to do the "buy low, sell high" thing. You start out with 80m, buy 2-3 items at the best price you can negotiate, offer them for sale with a modest but not ridiculous profit and turn 80m into 100-120m without too much effort, just a little time and patience. I know for a fact that some of the best "Traders" on the shard have a few of literally everything and they wait to sell them until the market is right. ie: nobody has one for sale lower than the price they want to get, and they'll wait months if they need to.
Patience, now that is in short supply these days... "I want it my way now or I'm going to rage" really doesn't help you, or anyone.
Scripters have nothing to do with the supply and demand of power scrolls and even if they did they would be helping bring the price down if they farmed them so the hate is misplaced. Price of scrolls are up because there aren't enough for all the pets people want, pure economics. That demand is rather slow to go down too because everyone insists on having a dozen or more pets, or in selling pets and starting to train a new pet over and over etc.
How about people stop spewing hate when they can't have something quickly and instantly? Figure it out and go work for it if you want it badly enough... it's pretty much the only way to earn anything in game.
Someone above said they've never had more than 80m in game. My advice is to monitor items, specifically ones you don't see very often that are above 25m in value, and to do the "buy low, sell high" thing. You start out with 80m, buy 2-3 items at the best price you can negotiate, offer them for sale with a modest but not ridiculous profit and turn 80m into 100-120m without too much effort, just a little time and patience. I know for a fact that some of the best "Traders" on the shard have a few of literally everything and they wait to sell them until the market is right. ie: nobody has one for sale lower than the price they want to get, and they'll wait months if they need to.
Patience, now that is in short supply these days... "I want it my way now or I'm going to rage" really doesn't help you, or anyone.
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I don't want to attack anyone, but I noticed this too. Negative comments about EJ from people who clearly haven't logged in and seen the influx of new players, for example.
Gold wipe is really never going to happen. It's unfair and ridiculous. Major gold sinks for richest 1% is one solution, as I said.
Maybe just maybe the scrolls are the gold sink......the plot thickens
That removes nothing from the game, just removes it from my bank to yours LOL.
Only if that gold is going to BS.
Based on a comment in the "other" forum, they might very well be.
Def not my bank lol. Though i will say at the beginning of the tamer revamp I did waste alot for sure.
Theres nothing selfish about keeping powerscrolls in felucca. Everyone has access to it and can get em. IF you decide not to go spawns, fine but don't whine about it like its impossible.
Why SHOULD Powerscrolls be added to trammel? If you can't get them yourself from Fel spawns, for whatever reason (when the actual content itself isn't even hard, unless you get raided), you can just buy them.
If you want to get them yourself, there are several t2a spots you can do spawns in. Or dungeons. If you're going to do Despise, Destard, or Oaks, you're going to get raided more often than not, since those are the easiest to check/the most popular spawns.
Let me ask you, what would a gold wipe accomplish? It'd just end up pissing people off, myself included. Ok, sure, I don't generally do a lot of farming; if I have more than 5 mil in the bank at any time, it's because I sold some stuff I don't need. For me, a gold wipe won't have as drastic an effect - I'd be back up to 1-2 mil in no time, which is my general threshold for gold. But that doesn't mean it should happen.
Let's assume this hypothetical gold wipe DOES occur. Do you know what would happen as a result? The script farmers, instead of doing it just for items, would add gold to the list of things they look for, and they'd continue to engage in RMT.
It would reduce prices of items being sold because items would no longer sell for high prices. There'd be no gold to buy them. Scripters are being banned at the moment. Mesanna posts lists of counts of people being banned.
Here you go with that crystal ball again pissing off the player base and watching all the accounts close and EA shutting down UO. It is laughable that you think there would be no adverse effect to wiping all the gold. Why are you trying to help RMT sites with this drivel.
In all your posts in this thread, you still haven't made a point to support your conclusions. If a unit of currency is less, it is worth more. If currency is worth more, the price of goods goes down. If you don't believe these points, that support my conclusion, google child level economy basics, supply and demand, and how paper money works.
I'm still waiting on your own points. So far only Norrington has said anything worth thinking about in wiping out gold.
I, also, never mentioned powerscrolls so not sure how that line of conversation started. I'm not going to be baited into each thread of thought branching off. I'm just arguing the basic concept of wiping out a currency to revive an economy.
prices are high. who cares? theyre just numbers. nobody has gotten rich off pulling gold from monsters in UO since very very early on. i dont think any action needs to be taken personally. theres always vets stumbling over each other to help returning and new players. they dont need to start from 'scratch' unless they want to, and even if they do, its never been easier to put together a really decent suit. 120 scrolls cost a fortune. buy 110s as a stopgap, theyre dirt cheap. then tag along with a couple vets and hit the roof, zipa, spawns, peerless, doom - all of these things carry a good chance at a drop you can sell for fairly lucrative pricing. learn what popular things cost on your shard and do occasional vendor searches for them, buy underpriced ones and resell at market for a few mil profit. you can do this casually and make enough to scrape together the in-demand items you want. no, you wont be able to do a full 120 loadout on your entire stable in a week, but you WILL be able to make progress toward your goals.
Both are great ideas however i'd go with the massive gold sinks as I would ONLY wipe out the gold from the cheaters, dupers and exploiters. Like the store they should add specialty items for in game gold (ex: Tattoos, Piercings, Weapons & Armor Dyes etc) and sell them between 100m-1p in order to remove large amounts of gold from the game. Obviously there's other gold sinks we can look into but wiping out everyone's gold or starting a new currency will only benefit those with lots of high valued items, which aren't new players or people coming back to the game...
So pissing off the player base and having them close their accounts is not a point. But your assumption that prices will go down is a point and your assumption that the players will just accept this is another one of your points. It really is remarkable that you state assumptions like they are fact to support your conclusion. You and your crystal ball.
ME
FACT you will piss players off when you wipe all their gold.
FACT players will close accounts because all their gold was wiped, EA will then decide if enough accounts remain to keep UO open.
FACT RMT sites will get more gold rapidly and raise the cost per Mil
YOU
ASSUMPTION Prices will go down
ASSUMPTION UO players will not be pissed
ASSUMPTION UO players will not close accounts because UO just wiped all there gold.
I'm done discussing this topic with you in this thread Frodo. I've never claimed what I said were facts, your facts aren't facts either. The point was to discuss why you think your facts are true. Why would a player leave? It could be because they share some of your same misconceptions. IE: They think them losing gold is the end of the world when it COULD LIKELY IN MY OPINION IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS DISCUSSION AND BASED ON MY BASIC ECONOMY KNOWLEDGE lower the cost of everything in the game.
My basic point was that if today the average player has 1 Mil. That is the assumption when pricing items. If tomorrow the average player has 100k, the price would go down. This is in conjunction with the fact that the Broadsword team is now policing their terms and banning people for scripting. Which, would in turn, stop RMT sites from gaining gold more rapidly as you claim is a fact.
You disagree with me, I feel it's just because you want to argue because you never respond to the points and you just now laid yours out. I understand some people get online to just argue with others. That's fine, but I appreciate it when they make points instead of just saying it's the end of the world.
My basic point was that if today the average player has 1 Mil. That is the assumption when pricing items. If tomorrow the average player has 100k, the price would go down. This is in conjunction with the fact that the Broadsword team is now policing their terms and banning people for scripting. Which, would in turn, stop RMT sites from gaining gold more rapidly as you claim is a fact.
You disagree with me, I feel it's just because you want to argue because you never respond to the points and you just now laid yours out. I understand some people get online to just argue with others. That's fine, but I appreciate it when they make points instead of just saying it's the end of the world.
BECAUSE YOU WIPED OUT ALL THEIR GOLD. Can you understand that, i do not know how it can be said any plainer than that.
Please explain that when the worlds wealth was wiped out in the 30s prices went up not down.
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This is exactly the disjoint between the way the game is and what vets think it is. Gold is out there. Think of gold as is now as 1 million gold being worth about as much as what 10k was at launch. This is called inflation. If you remove the gold, inflation is reset.
Keep that point in mind... if gold is wiped... 10k then would be the same as 1 million now. Inflation is reset.
Today, a new or returning player or even you with your limited gold would have to farm days for 1 million gold. With this change you could grind in 30 minutes for 10k. The reason is that monster loot hasn't scaled with inflation.
They have begun banning scripters so again, RMT will be just as level as a regular player. I'm not saying it won't exist, but I don't see the argument about RMT as a good point because saying not to do something because of something already happening just seems like a non-sequitur. RMT already happens. At least resetting the gold will remove all their dup'd gold and scripted gold.
Why would someone lower prices if gold is wiped? Well because a player isn't going to spend a year to buy one powerscroll and because the same 10k that is now worth more to you is also worth more to the person selling.
We can do scenarios...
Today:
You have 10 million gold.
You want to buy a nice legendary or crimson cincture.
You vendor search and sort by lowest price and find a crimson cincture for what players have deemed the average price... 20 million for the sake of this scenario.
You're 10 million short.
You think about waiting for an event and hoping for a drop if you have the right template and can do enough and can beat the RNG gods... You think about going to do the latest content for a drop that you can trade with thousands of other vets that no longer need the drop. Or you can do what new and returning players are having to do and farm solo content for 30k an hour. Maybe in a week or two of HEAVY gaming you can get your crimson cincture.
If this change were to happen HYPOTHETICALLY:
You have 0 gold now.
You want a Crimson Cincture or Legendary.
You vendor search and find it for 300k. (Why is it now 300k? Because the person wants to sell it. There is no longer 20 million gold easily obtainable.)
You grind up 300k in a couple days of heavy gaming. You may even see new players out there because they to have to get the gold. Maybe you guys team up for a champ spawn and actually pick up the gold instead of just leaving it there as some paltry sum.
You know... play the game.
You farm up the gold, duh. Play the game. Vendor fees will also go down as prices go down. It would take all of an hour to get enough gold for a vendor with high priced items in a new economy.
How do you think new players are getting reagents and scrolls? I Just did it and it really wasn't as bad as you're making it out to be. Small gems would have lower prices too.
New players stashing gold currently would take a hit yes.
Trade deal would have to be worked out too, but it's not impossible.
Insurance in this game is bad in my opinion. The game would be much more fun and balanced if people actually lost gear sometimes. This would actually stimulate the economy even further and is a good point for wiping out gold.
Yea, RMT would jack up prices because 10k is now worth as much as 1 million in my hypothetical situation. Just like today, no one has to buy it. No one would have to buy 10k if they knew they could spend a very small amount of time farming it like we did in the past.
How do you think new players are getting reagents and scrolls? I Just did it and it really wasn't as bad as you're making it out to be. Small gems would have lower prices too.
New players stashing gold currently would take a hit yes.
Trade deal would have to be worked out too, but it's not impossible.
Insurance in this game is bad in my opinion. The game would be much more fun and balanced if people actually lost gear sometimes. This would actually stimulate the economy even further and is a good point for wiping out gold.
Yea, RMT would jack up prices because 10k is now worth as much as 1 million in my hypothetical situation. Just like today, no one has to buy it. No one would have to buy 10k if they knew they could spend a very small amount of time farming it like we did in the past.
Insurance is what it is, i do however agree that items needs to break. The ECO system as of now is broken, because gold don't get out of the game, and gear almost never breaks.
What this means is that over time the game will be inflated with huge amounts of gold and items...
So, I just want to understand where you're coming from. You have multiple characters on a lot of shards. All have a minimum amount of gold relatively. You don't have a lot of time to play the game. And you like training skills.
Removing gold from the game, would benefit you greatly. A) The gold you have is already small. B) You could then get a pile of gold that means something with (Relative to today) little gameplay. C) Training skill isn't impacted at all if you don't mind actually playing the game.
You people realize this is just a discussion forum and peoples suggestions aren't instantly patched in the game right? No wonder people don't like to post here when a simple suggestion is met with such hostility from the fragile folks. Obviously if something like a gold wipe were to happen they wouldn't just do it without notification, so people would have time to removed the gold and close up vendors prior to the change. I personally think we can do it other ways through gold sinks, with the current amount of gold id triple or more vendor fees to sink gold out. Stop allowing people to fill vendors to the brim and let it sit for months, make them login to check and reset prices. raising insurance costs when people die is another way to sink out gold.
You misread me or I was bad at communicating my thought. the Relatively little gameplay part would be post change in this hypothetical situation. It's actually relevant to your other thought about saving gold for a PS. You would be happy about the reset gold because you just spent a lot of time saving for a PS in today's world and that same PS would now be more attainable farming monsters post change because the gold from the monsters is now worth more.
Either you're misreading what I'm typing or you're just purposefully arguing. You do get the concept that if inflation is reset 1 gold is now worth 1 gold instead of .0001 gold as it is today? This means the 1 gold is now worth more and you need less of it to buy items. Needing less gold makes it easier to get. It's still work (GAMEPLAY) to get, but it requires less.
Everything in game is sold on perceived value, if no one has much gold then the same powerscrolls can only be sold for what people are willing to pay for them. If the average amount of gold people had was 5-10M gold you would never sell scroll at 40M like it is now. Youd have to sell them for a M or less if you plan to sell anything. A million gold can be made from doing 3-4 spawns just from collecting gold at the end.
While your gold is now worth more, his powerscroll is worth less.
You could buy an apple for five cents in the past. Today the same apple costs fifty cents. This is because inflation. The dollar is worth less today than it was in the past. The apple, or powerscroll, didn't change. It doesn't require more effort to farm an apple or a scroll. If anything, it's easier to do both. The thing valuing the item is the worth of the currency.
You can't do this with a real currency of course because the value is based on something real. Gold. But in a virtual currency you can reset the gold to 0 and remove inflation. Gold is immediately worth the same as it was in the past. Again, the power scroll or apple doesn't have anything to do with the cost. The effort for both are the same.
Lets say a power scroll costs 100 of something, anything. Gold is worth 1 of that something in the past. As time goes on and gold is more accessible (Or printed) it loses value. It's now worth .1 after 18 years. The power scroll still costs 100. But now instead of it being 100 gold as it was in the past, it's 1000.
I feel like I'm having to explain basic inflation to someone when a Youtube video or quick google would be better suited. While I understand basic economics and how our money works, I am not a expert in ways to explain it to people.
You could buy an apple for five cents in the past. Today the same apple costs fifty cents. This is because inflation. The dollar is worth less today than it was in the past. The apple, or powerscroll, didn't change. It doesn't require more effort to farm an apple or a scroll. If anything, it's easier to do both. The thing valuing the item is the worth of the currency.
You can't do this with a real currency of course because the value is based on something real. Gold. But in a virtual currency you can reset the gold to 0 and remove inflation. Gold is immediately worth the same as it was in the past. Again, the power scroll or apple doesn't have anything to do with the cost. The effort for both are the same.
Lets say a power scroll costs 100 of something, anything. Gold is worth 1 of that something in the past. As time goes on and gold is more accessible (Or printed) it loses value. It's now worth .1 after 18 years. The power scroll still costs 100. But now instead of it being 100 gold as it was in the past, it's 1000.
I feel like I'm having to explain basic inflation to someone when a Youtube video or quick google would be better suited. While I understand basic economics and how our money works, I am not a expert in ways to explain it to people.
I still remember how to farm gold. If they wiped all of the gold from the system, I can guarantee that I can pull any easy mil a day.
No scripts
No 3rd party programs.
At the end of the day, a small group of skilled players will still dominate the economy.
No scripts
No 3rd party programs.
At the end of the day, a small group of skilled players will still dominate the economy.
NPC prices are fine. They haven't increased. I suggested no such thing. Don't put words in my mouth, please.
Also, government action is irrelevant.
To DSC's point, resetting inflation is the goal. If a player wants to be rich and farm gold for endless days more power to them. Eventually inflation will go back and will be a problem again though. Hopefully, knock on wood, it'll be another decade of fun for players.
Also, government action is irrelevant.
To DSC's point, resetting inflation is the goal. If a player wants to be rich and farm gold for endless days more power to them. Eventually inflation will go back and will be a problem again though. Hopefully, knock on wood, it'll be another decade of fun for players.
In context it seemed like you were speaking of player sold gems. I don't see why NPC sold items would have to decrease in price. They're already low.
At the real end of the day the Cheats that are multiboxing and scripting unattended are already doing exactly that, except they are raking in far far more than that.
Your name isn't Karl Marx by any chance, is it?
We are only talking about gold here. It isn't worth any scripters time to farm gold by itself.