How crazy is it that they can't tell the info on the account is different from Clops'. Shouldn't take long to fix this, sounds like no one wants to do their job and get involved.
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i will add my name to this list.
Will do same.
Not so crazy really, If I were Clops I would have multiple master accts not connected with the same email, CC etc. The problem I am seeing here is the Account was a Clops account and therefor any activity with it, like transferring it.. would be suspect given the scope of Clops abuses. It would be very much like trying to ban me they would get my 3 main master accounts pretty easily, but would have a hard time getting the other 3 as they are not connected in anyway to each other or the main 3 except most of the individual accounts have a Tyrath Character on them. But if the castle in question here was legally placed, does not contain contraband and Hungry can prove that they are not a Clops Alternate, it should be a simple matter. Of course this would also be a good reason to still have the official account transfer service, this would not even be a issue if it still existed and it were used. Which transferring a account with a high value castle would motivate me to have used that system. The real problem here it seems to me, is it was a Clops account.
I suppose I have no way of proving I am not actually Clops other than the 10 accounts I use are all same email same name same address, etc...though I do have them spread across 3 master accounts. As well as I only access my accounts from 2 IP addresses as both my home and my shop use Google Fiber with dedicated IP addresses.
As far as illegal items, the only thing I can think in there that may be questionable are the 250,000,000 16th anniversary horses. Which I would gladly part with. Ugh.
OK so now we find out that there is more to the story! You bought? the castle from clops, and he just GAVE? you an ACCOUNT to go with it??? I'm not saying there was ANYTHING wrong done of course. And I am not saying that Mesanna is right, or wrong. But as more facts are revealed I am having an easier time understanding why you haven't gotten it back yet. Apparently, it's not as "cut and dried" as it seemed at first.
I never hid that information from Mesanna. I don't see anything wrong with what was done. Many people here have taken over accounts of others for one reason or another.
And Id say I have alot more claim than others who got their houses back that were on an actual clops account owned by clops just on the word of them and clops that he was holding it for them.
And in @Finley Grant's case...he was in the exact situation as myself. He sent over the info on the account and spoke with mesanna, wala house returned.
Just calling it what it is here, Mes has people she will bend over backwards to help and people like me that if I were on fire she wouldn't take a leak on me. And a whole lot of people inbetween that it seems may or may not get help and support, just the way it is when the boss has her own clique
So you are saying that Clops "GAVE" Finley Grant an account as well???? DANG, what a deal! Buy a house and get a free account. At least twice. Anybody else? Does that seem strange to anybody but me?
I don't understand your witch hunt? Are you searching for something to be wrong here? I don't know anything about Finleys situation other than what I have said from brief discussion with him yesterday. I don't see anything wrong with anything here, his nor my situation. Other than his has been resolved and mine has not.
Not strange if you are planning on using the account recovery at a later date to get the castle back after the new owner has loaded it up
It could have been a three month old account and not 168+....
I did not say there was anything wrong, just that that it seemed strange to me, that in at least 2 instances accounts were given to people when they bought a house from a (now) known cheater.
Ok there we go. Both valid points, that I didn't think of. Hence my question.
In my defense I had no idea Clops was anything but an extremely upstanding member of the community. As Im sure the majority here did. Pretty sure Im not alone when I say I was absolutely shocked, floored, when the news came out.
Oh I believe you got tangled up in a mess not of your making and that is either being handled with an over abundance of caution or just not being handled at all. No way for any of us to know which.
All I know is, if I bought a house from someone, and they offered to give me an account to keep it on, I would "run for the hills" as fast as I could. My BS/cheat/hack meter would be going off like fireworks on the 4th of July.
Same here and I am guessing you have got burned a time or two as well and are not so naive and trusting anymore either. Some lessons in UO can be very expensive and frustrating.
I never have been burned. It just seems obvious, and using common sense.
Lord Nabin
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It's actually more common than you would think in some trusted circles of players.
The accounts are just house holder accounts with really no value. Typically what would happen is a player would move their new purchase to their main or other account once they sold their existing house. They might leave it their depending on who they got it from. They accounts are often used for gift collecting and trading later on.
The problem I see you facing is that we are not allowed to buy/sell/trade accts, no matter the intention. The DEV team has to look at it as it is still legally Clop's acct since he most likely opened the acct. If they give it back to you, it opens a door for others to heckle them about giving accts back when someone is banned. You really should have started a new acct to place the Castle on if you were going to pay for it anyways.. why just take one of his? This may just have to be a lesson learned.
"Trusted" Well how did that work out. ROFL
Lord Nabin
High Council Sage - Greater Sosaria
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I'm going to go with that was pretty insensitive.
Every transaction of any kind has some risk involved. Hence why you work with the people who you feel have the best reputations or you have succesfully done business with in the past.
You know "trusted" community members you believe in.
OK after reading the whole tale of woe on this castle I think I can easy explain the reason you lost out.
First off you bought not long ago... After the beginning of Clops diabolical run of horror...
Of which was one has to admit extensive. The sale came up on record as his property... you say he sold you the account with the building.
This changing of info is very quickly done if you have done it before.
Second.
Mesanna would not have taken the castle without due cause.
She returned the keep because it was proven not involved.
The castle is a whole other ball game....
Seems its quite possible that the items within it and the building were bought with funds from his larceny.
Making it part of his foul involvement in hurting UO.
People may know you but this is not your original property... and you by omission in your first post did not tell the whole truth.
Clops had this building and its contents for quite some time.
if this is a sham ....
I for one am not keen on your attempt to claim something that quite honestly maybe a setup to claim in a hidden way property for Clops...
or if your the injured party in his dealings... you have my condolens on the matter.
See
It's too easy to contact a friend who is not connected to anything you do and ask a favor that will benefit both.
I have made a few comments to Capt N about how easy it would be for Clops to get back into UO and restart this whole business over again.
The things I have heard he did go back quite a while in the game... if he did stuff to spread it so the web was muddy .... your just one of a good deal of patsys he nailed.
I fear he has hidden things and accounts to run again...
This is the first thing I would be looking for... I am sorry its too fishy.
First off you bought not long ago... After the beginning of Clops diabolical run of horror...
Of which was one has to admit extensive. The sale came up on record as his property... you say he sold you the account with the building.
This changing of info is very quickly done if you have done it before.
Second.
Mesanna would not have taken the castle without due cause.
She returned the keep because it was proven not involved.
The castle is a whole other ball game....
Seems its quite possible that the items within it and the building were bought with funds from his larceny.
Making it part of his foul involvement in hurting UO.
People may know you but this is not your original property... and you by omission in your first post did not tell the whole truth.
Clops had this building and its contents for quite some time.
if this is a sham ....
I for one am not keen on your attempt to claim something that quite honestly maybe a setup to claim in a hidden way property for Clops...
or if your the injured party in his dealings... you have my condolens on the matter.
See
It's too easy to contact a friend who is not connected to anything you do and ask a favor that will benefit both.
I have made a few comments to Capt N about how easy it would be for Clops to get back into UO and restart this whole business over again.
The things I have heard he did go back quite a while in the game... if he did stuff to spread it so the web was muddy .... your just one of a good deal of patsys he nailed.
I fear he has hidden things and accounts to run again...
This is the first thing I would be looking for... I am sorry its too fishy.
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Okay I'm going to weigh in on this. I also received a house from Clops. It was the old Genesis Library in Luna on Legends, and I wanted to save it. I tried to buy from it Atlantic Realtor who was selling it.
He said he had sold it to Clops for 1 billion gold.(1 plat). I contacted Clops I told him I couldn't give him a Plat; that I could scrap up 500 mil. He gave me the house, I nearly fainted at such a generous gesture.
I admit I had reservations, but my grandpa always told me "Never look a gift horse in the mouth". Jirel was excited, she trusted Clops because "he was a trusted member of UO and even Mesanna trusts him".
The the morning that Cerberus broken the chain, all Tartarus and the Underworld broke loose! Jirel gets an icq message from Norrington "OMG did you hear about Clops?" and "OMG didn't you just get a house from him?". I immediately bring up Stratics and start reading about the WHOLE steaming pile of feces. Then Jirel crapped the proverbial BRICK at reading that Mesanna was confiscating houses.
We had transfer the house to one of our accounts, and payed forward the gesture by giving the smaller Luna house on that account to a returning player that we'd known from years ago.
There was nothing in the house except runebooks. We had moved our crap into the house. Jirel wrote Mesanna on May 17th, she was 100% honest about everything. To this day Mesanna has NEVER REPLIED to that email. I feel fortune that she didn't confiscate my house. I also think she was looking for rares and high end items. As woman in the IT field to me she is embarrassing. My professor would roast her alive. She also shows poor managerial skills. Any manager worth their salt would have done a background check on Clops. The fact that he'd already violated a contract and a NDA should have given her serious questions about his trustworthiness. Now we are ALL PAYING for her poor judgement.
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LOL The Castle must have sent up red flags all over the place about me
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LOL Wiseguy!LOL The Castle must have sent up red flags all over the place about me
Actually, no because it is a castle in a place most people wouldn't want and you didn't just pay One Billion/One Plat for it.More importantly we've played, fought, laughed, and lived on (AOL) Legends together for 15 years (give or take a few).
Also I'd just left youanother Yamadon on the door step of your Tokuno house if you messed me over! ROTFLMAO!
LOL why do people always leave rune beetles and Yamadons on my or stepLOL Wiseguy!
More importantly we've played, fought, laughed, and lived on (AOL) Legends together for 15 years (give or take a few).
another Yamadon on the door step of your Tokuno house if you messed me over! ROTFLMAO!
LOL I have very few houses that are in what most people would call prime spots, Me on the other hand would like more spawn around the houses. Must be why I like the Tsuki Garden house so much 
OK guys this is enough. Let me make something clear.
The keep which is mentioned here was bought in game for 1.5plat with one of MY OWN accounts.
I DID NOT receive an account NOR ANY illegal items manufactured by clops.
The keep was empty beside some of the new stone work.
And before any **** gets assumed:
I am not involved in clops action nor I would call him a friend. During my time in UO I had maybe a handful transactions with him where I sold him stuff. The only thing I ever received is that keep
I am also not closer to mesanna than any one else.
After I saw the issue I sent an email where I was as friendly as some humans should be to each other. That's all.
Everyone who knows me should know that I tell the truth but if someone have doubts feel free to get back to me or ask some of the well known players for reference towards my character.
Please do no get me involved in this post any more.
Thanks in advance.
Cheers.
Finley.
Btw: the keep is know a museum. Everyone is welcome to stop by. (official post in home section will follow soon)
The keep which is mentioned here was bought in game for 1.5plat with one of MY OWN accounts.
I DID NOT receive an account NOR ANY illegal items manufactured by clops.
The keep was empty beside some of the new stone work.
And before any **** gets assumed:
I am not involved in clops action nor I would call him a friend. During my time in UO I had maybe a handful transactions with him where I sold him stuff. The only thing I ever received is that keep
I am also not closer to mesanna than any one else.
After I saw the issue I sent an email where I was as friendly as some humans should be to each other. That's all.
Everyone who knows me should know that I tell the truth but if someone have doubts feel free to get back to me or ask some of the well known players for reference towards my character.
Please do no get me involved in this post any more.
Thanks in advance.
Cheers.
Finley.
Btw: the keep is know a museum. Everyone is welcome to stop by. (official post in home section will follow soon)
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I think the problem here is a lack of consistency, some property was confiscated and stayed that way, some was taken but then given back and some wasn't taken at all, if Clops bought and sold a lot of property then surely there should have been other homes confiscated? I'm starting to think some people just got very unlucky and other people managed to totally escape notice. I didn't think simply transferring an account to another person was in any way illegal any more. Maybe it was more a question of the time-frame involved. I think if I finally got a castle after 19 years and lost it like that, I would be pretty gutted too...
The very same person that wants us to believe they can even see which 3rd tools people are using. Yet can't determine which accounts belong to one of her sub-contractors and which do not *shrugs*I think the problem here is a lack of consistency, some property was confiscated and stayed that way, some was taken but then given back and some wasn't taken at all, if Clops bought and sold a lot of property then surely there should have been other homes confiscated? I'm starting to think some people just got very unlucky and other people managed to totally escape notice. I didn't think simply transferring an account to another person was in any way illegal any more. Maybe it was more a question of the time-frame involved. I think if I finally got a castle after 19 years and lost it like that, I would be pretty gutted too...
After twenty years you might think they have some helping tools for that. But well, maybe not. I'm pretty sure they are very much in the dark about their own game.
Just want to update, I think I may be ending up okay on this. Mesanna contacted me via email and it looks like ill be all squared away as soon as she verifies the info.
TBF, that's what priorities are. I don't necessary agree with all their priorities, but I can see how this is very low. Lots of minor stuff isn't updated properly, like the website or their wiki (just one example of "never followed up": Developer Meet & Greets – Ultima Online). But then again, tbf, that kind of "rot" is something I experienced at a lot of similiar places ouside UO too.
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Maybe drawing some attention to your situation helped! Well done to Messana for resolving this, better late than never, I'm so glad you won't lose your castle!
What strange timing
Public backlash is often found to be a motivational tool for some...What strange timing
Quite often
What you take for public pressure might in fact be the end of the investigation on that property...
psst Yes they can tell you who and for how long a house in UO has been standing and who owned it.
How ever...
If a home has been demolished, or went the idoc path that information is much harder to find.
I have known of a player who had a castle go poof and a GM took the time to go in with Dev help on the internal server open a past saved copy of her shard and took down the information for the rebuild of her home. This was back many many years ago but.. yes it can be done.
I will say this much.... I am not Mesanna !!!!
I do not want that poor womans job.... in my opinion she has the patience and control of a saint with most BS players give her.
In a way your damn lucky its not me....
psst Yes they can tell you who and for how long a house in UO has been standing and who owned it.
How ever...
If a home has been demolished, or went the idoc path that information is much harder to find.
I have known of a player who had a castle go poof and a GM took the time to go in with Dev help on the internal server open a past saved copy of her shard and took down the information for the rebuild of her home. This was back many many years ago but.. yes it can be done.
I will say this much.... I am not Mesanna !!!!
I do not want that poor womans job.... in my opinion she has the patience and control of a saint with most BS players give her.
In a way your damn lucky its not me....
365 thread readers on this one. Being a long time player closed 11 account accounts (not to mention several others add their accounts) and bennu, bleak, kyronix, and mesanna have read the thread you would expect to get a response some where down the line. Glad it was for @hungry4knowhow
Not I. in General i was only known as Scribbles or Ruk.
Yeah, even a brief note would have gone a long ways, I'm sure.