XavierFromLs
Adventurer
people are doing 30+ damage with moving shots, pretty op if you ask me, time to nerf!
lets keep it clean this time alright ! boys?
lets keep it clean this time alright ! boys?
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enough is enough time to nerf moving shots ROUND 2
- Thread starter XavierFromLs
- Start date
- Watchers 4
No one is moving shotting you for 30 damage unless one of the following is true:
1. You are cursed. You either decided not to apple, don't carry then, or are cooldown, all of which were a result of your own decision making. Also, there are currently no curse archers (not mage archers, I'm talking 180/211 stam archers with curse) on ATL and LS is basically dead now. So at the very least, we're talking about a 2v1, as someone other than the moving shot archer is doing the curses.
2. They're using omen (which there are like 2 of on ATL), which has a less than 2 second uptime once cast (with no Spirit Speak, which these guys don't have), which means not only do they have to stop to cast, have you be in range to target, and then they still to be in moving shot range.
3. You below 70 resists.
If you are uncursed, unomened, and have all 70's, you're likely getting hit for ~18-20 base damage, and a maximum 50% chance of lightning (7-9 damage), and a maximum 50% chance of velocity (based on how far you are from them, ranging 1-~7 damage regularly). All of this is assuming 100 damage increase, and a minimum of 110 Tactics and Anatomy, there is a less than 25% chance that anyone is ever hitting you for 30 damage, and that's assuming both hit spells go off AND they hit you.
It's 2016. You're probably playing a mage weapon character with no parry. Don't be surprised when you get hit when you run no defense in your template. On an archer, I regularly miss or have my shots parried between 5-10 times consecutively (which is a minimum of 7 seconds, just for 5 misses, more than enough time for anyone to heal).
Sure, getting run down by 3+ archers is probably impossible to live against (especially without parry), but that's a product of it being 3v1. If you would stop running, and they dismounted you, you would be dead much quicker than you would be with moving shots, without that special even being used.
Also, same principle applies to your comment about Armor Ignores. You're not getting hit for 50 damage (unless omened), unless in the very rare chance that you get hit by an AI, both max range velocity and lightning go off, and then it may hit in the high 40's.
Archery/melee skills have the strongest counter in the game against them, in parry. Use it to your advantage.
1. You are cursed. You either decided not to apple, don't carry then, or are cooldown, all of which were a result of your own decision making. Also, there are currently no curse archers (not mage archers, I'm talking 180/211 stam archers with curse) on ATL and LS is basically dead now. So at the very least, we're talking about a 2v1, as someone other than the moving shot archer is doing the curses.
2. They're using omen (which there are like 2 of on ATL), which has a less than 2 second uptime once cast (with no Spirit Speak, which these guys don't have), which means not only do they have to stop to cast, have you be in range to target, and then they still to be in moving shot range.
3. You below 70 resists.
If you are uncursed, unomened, and have all 70's, you're likely getting hit for ~18-20 base damage, and a maximum 50% chance of lightning (7-9 damage), and a maximum 50% chance of velocity (based on how far you are from them, ranging 1-~7 damage regularly). All of this is assuming 100 damage increase, and a minimum of 110 Tactics and Anatomy, there is a less than 25% chance that anyone is ever hitting you for 30 damage, and that's assuming both hit spells go off AND they hit you.
It's 2016. You're probably playing a mage weapon character with no parry. Don't be surprised when you get hit when you run no defense in your template. On an archer, I regularly miss or have my shots parried between 5-10 times consecutively (which is a minimum of 7 seconds, just for 5 misses, more than enough time for anyone to heal).
Sure, getting run down by 3+ archers is probably impossible to live against (especially without parry), but that's a product of it being 3v1. If you would stop running, and they dismounted you, you would be dead much quicker than you would be with moving shots, without that special even being used.
Also, same principle applies to your comment about Armor Ignores. You're not getting hit for 50 damage (unless omened), unless in the very rare chance that you get hit by an AI, both max range velocity and lightning go off, and then it may hit in the high 40's.
Archery/melee skills have the strongest counter in the game against them, in parry. Use it to your advantage.
XavierFromLs
Adventurer
There is no way you wrote this with a straight face, no way. You say it so casually like this isn't overpowered.
18-20 + 7-9 + 1-7 DAMAGE while on the run isn't over powered? You sure you aren't biased?
Captn Norrington
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The original thread about this had to be locked due to people constantly attacking each other and trying to derail the thread. This thread will be watched very closely by the moderation team and any posts attacking another person will be removed.
We have no problem with you guys discussing this topic, but you cannot attack each other, insult each other, accuse each other of using illegal programs etc.
We have no problem with you guys discussing this topic, but you cannot attack each other, insult each other, accuse each other of using illegal programs etc.
You're typing all of this as if you actually take damage from every shot. Shots can miss. You can max out or even refine your DCI. You can get parry and a weapon skill. If moving shots had a 100% hit rate (which it is much lower than that), then yeah, it would be overpowered. But they do miss, a lot.
XavierFromLs
Adventurer
The fact is you should not be doing that kind of damage while on the run with a ranged character. The fact is archers would still very good if they nerfed the moving shot damage or speed.
Moving shot is the only archer special that takes mana if it misses. That is why it is balanced and there is a cost to use it on the run.
End of story.
Why would a moving shot do less damage than an auto-attack, which is exactly what a moving shot is, a moving auto-attack? How do you nerf the speed of a special, that is reliant on the speed of the weapon? These sound like incredibly convoluted and completely out of the UO dev team's character in regard to nerfs.
@OP. I do not know if you are bad at pvp. But just because you do not know how to live vs moving shot does not make it overpowered. Nor does it actually do 30+ every shot. I will gladly show you the ropes.
Can you give me more information on the kind of mage you are running? What are your resists/dci/skills?
Can you give me more information on the kind of mage you are running? What are your resists/dci/skills?
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XavierFromLs
Adventurer
Archers these days have so much mana its hardly a balance.
How much mana does every archer have? This seems like a weird blanket statement to me.
Any template can have as much or as little mana as they desire. Are you now proposing mana caps based on skill allocation, or a nerf on gear entirely?
So much.
XavierFromLs
Adventurer
No i'm sticking to nerfing moving shot damage or speed to make it balanced.
I believe the damage is fine. It's the max swing that needs adjustment and the ability to stack mortals. You'll have to include gargs too.
If ranged weapons are toned down you might see an increase in new and exciting melee templates.
I think mages holding spells is unbalanced and too overpowered. Mages should only be able to cast the spell if the person is on the screen. they should lose the cursor after 1 second of having it.
I think weapon specials are also unabalanced, we should go back to the old days where you would just use a weapon and hope the 1 our of 4 specials went off.
Curse is unbalanced because it shouldnt make my suit less as good as it is because its a spell and my suit should be better then that
i think wakasashi is unbalanced it slows for 1.5 seconds it should only slow for 1.3 seconds that would make it less unbalanced
Potions should not be usable if you are in combat we should remove the ability to heal yourself out of danger from the game
Players with taming should not be able to put there pets on other players and if this was real life that would be a crime that is not balanced
you should not be able to apply bandages on the run because if you were really bandaging someone and they moved it would fall off so thats not balanced
I think weapon specials are also unabalanced, we should go back to the old days where you would just use a weapon and hope the 1 our of 4 specials went off.
Curse is unbalanced because it shouldnt make my suit less as good as it is because its a spell and my suit should be better then that
i think wakasashi is unbalanced it slows for 1.5 seconds it should only slow for 1.3 seconds that would make it less unbalanced
Potions should not be usable if you are in combat we should remove the ability to heal yourself out of danger from the game
Players with taming should not be able to put there pets on other players and if this was real life that would be a crime that is not balanced
you should not be able to apply bandages on the run because if you were really bandaging someone and they moved it would fall off so thats not balanced
O.K.
With that in mind, could you please explain your rationale on how to effectively nerf two things that are tied to a weapon, and not a special?
Why would a moving shot do less damage than an auto-attack, which is exactly what a moving shot is, a moving auto-attack? How do you nerf the speed of a special, that is reliant on the speed of the weapon? These sound like incredibly convoluted and completely out of the UO dev team's character in regard to nerfs.
Lowering moving shot damage to 80% or 90% would be good.
XavierFromLs
Adventurer
I don't know if you are paying attention but the other thread was locked for posts like these that are off topic and derail from the original post.
i am max 120 tactics 120 anatomy and 100 damage inc and i have many moving shots that still hit many times for 18 damage. so no. that doesnt make sense
that wasnt off topic, the topic is nerf things that dont need nerf i thought
XavierFromLs
Adventurer
I never said to nerf damage and speed, one would be enough , i agree that the speed might be better to nerf and when i say speed, i mean of the composite bow, but i think you knew that. Its not a hard fix seeing as how they have done it before.
So is the 1.25 swing time (at 211 stam, 55 SSI) of the Composite Bow your primary issue here? Personally I am only guilded with one 211 archer, and rarely see any others on ATL. Without spending an enormous amount of gold, 211 suits are often pretty bare bones in terms of high mana/mana regeneration.
XavierFromLs
Adventurer
My issue is that moving shots (with composite bow) are doing too much damage for the speed they have , so if they increase the swing speed of the comp bow, i will be a happy camper.
How many people are a
So if it is 1.5 seconds like the majority of people have, then you will be ok with it? You only are not ok with it at the 1.25 swing at the damage. Got it.
I only play mages but I don't have any issues with moving shot there has to be something in this game to stop people who just run. I think mages should be able to rubberband again though make it a little easier for us or give us a spell that we can cast on the run for people who have zero interest in staying on screen.
XavierFromLs
Adventurer
How about they change the composite bow speed from 4 seconds to 5. @Kyronix
They have one of those, its called a heavy crossbow, and it has moving shot
So the damage would increase to the same as a heavy, but with two more tile range. You'll be complaining even more than you are now if that happens. Increase speed = increase damage.
Is that before or after you applied the hit spell + velocity damage?
XavierFromLs
Adventurer
well would you be ok with 4.5 to keep tradtion of making the wep obsolete?
XavierFromLs
Adventurer
No because the damage would stay the same.
Stats on my archer
Potted-175 mana and 212, that a cpl armor ignores
or unlimited running shots.15 MR,55 LMC,55 SSI,50ep
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Cap ranged: attacks at 1.50s speed
Cap melee: at 1.25s speed (as is)
Parry: chance reduced down to 20%@120.0 if it's not paired with an actual Weapon skill (Swords, Macing, Fencing,or Throwing*)
*Throwing + Parry:Requires a shield to parry thus is in no need of any adjustments
Balanced: property on 2-handed melee weapons should reduce parry chance down to 20% (Instead of completely removing parry chance)
Poisoning: Remove free Cure or make it pvm only.
Casting Focus: Make it a pvm-only property & increase the property value from 1-3 to 5-20%
(allowing people to reach 100%) balancing mages with dexers in pvm.
Scribe: Increase Casting Focus bonus to +30%
Focused Specialization: SDI caps to 15% if Alchemy or Poisoning are above 30.0.
300.0 combat LMC-bonus: Allow Tactics, Anatomy, & Hiding to provide the 300.0 combat LMC-bonus for weapon specials.
Remove: Bushido & Ninjitsu from providing the 300.0 combat LMC-bonus.
Protection: should only work for spells cast from the "Magery" spell school.
Cap melee: at 1.25s speed (as is)
Parry: chance reduced down to 20%@120.0 if it's not paired with an actual Weapon skill (Swords, Macing, Fencing,or Throwing*)
*Throwing + Parry:Requires a shield to parry thus is in no need of any adjustments
Balanced: property on 2-handed melee weapons should reduce parry chance down to 20% (Instead of completely removing parry chance)
Poisoning: Remove free Cure or make it pvm only.
Casting Focus: Make it a pvm-only property & increase the property value from 1-3 to 5-20%
(allowing people to reach 100%) balancing mages with dexers in pvm.
Scribe: Increase Casting Focus bonus to +30%
Focused Specialization: SDI caps to 15% if Alchemy or Poisoning are above 30.0.
300.0 combat LMC-bonus: Allow Tactics, Anatomy, & Hiding to provide the 300.0 combat LMC-bonus for weapon specials.
Remove: Bushido & Ninjitsu from providing the 300.0 combat LMC-bonus.
Protection: should only work for spells cast from the "Magery" spell school.
it does take alot of gold to make one. and i bet a mage with the same gold investment would be better off for defense. i really doubt this guy in the post even has parry or anatomy. maybe try a 70 dci refined suit if hes really having a problem getting away from moving shot.
my suits pretty good, i spent alot of gold on it, and still the majority of mages running a competive 2016 template suit are hard to kill on an archer just because of the misses.
21 mana regen. 70 di on suit
and this is still not a "maxed" suit. the suits running 100 di on the actual suit with comparable stats are even more expensive / less common.
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i cant apply those because they arent guaranteed damage. so your saying we should nerf things based on rng chance?
Because you swapped 30 mana for 15 Hpi doesnt mean its smart.Stats on my archer
View attachment 46236
Potted-175 mana and 212, that a cpl armor ignores
15 MR,55 LMC,55 SSI,50ep
Doesn't mean its not. 15 hps for 30 mana pretty equal to me, can easily swamp a slither in there for 10 more hps and have 4 less mana from boots. Point is archers are OP to play with the way they are now 1.25 Swings, Constant AI's, Running shot for days. They need a BIG nerf. Melee dexxers need a Boost. Any ranged attack should not be better than melee skills.
Agreed. It is silly archers can swing as fast as someone using a dagger. Plus with the gear available these days, 211 stamina archers don't have to make a big sacrifice in other stats like they used to.
No.
/end
So let me get this straight.
You think a composite bow which takes: 211 stamina and 55 swing speed
shouldnt be able to swing as fast as a dagger which takes: 60 stamina and 0 swing speed
Okay so why dont we make bokutos a 4 second weapon because nerve strike is one of the best moves in the game and u only need 60 stam
and with that you can achieve 225 mana
Lord Trollo
Adventurer
i like how paithan trolls everybody who posts a pvp concern that deters from his template but is more than happy to cry about various pvp flaws that he himself gets his ass kicked from. isn't that some silly sht right there>
nerve strike that you can box out of, best in game?
its a move that can hit for 40 with 0 damage inc 90 tactics and 0 anatomy. nice try tho
this is coming from someone who thinks that 30 mana is better then 15 hit point increase
you must play a stealth archer maybe? yeah thats probably it
