Custom Content Re-Sell Debate...

[Guest]

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We are just going to have to agree to disagree, because there's no way you can know how I *do* know that what I am saying is correct, but the way you interpret them is a common interpretation and is what causes the biggest amount of the disputes that happen when a creator goes after someone who has ripped off their work, a large portion of which come out in favor of the creator

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The original creator's name is still on the custom content, reselling is not "ripping off their work". Somebody taking the design and uploading it as their own is ripping off someone's work. Reselling it is not.

<u>I like AJ's suggestion of being able to set custom content to no resale. Uploaders should have the option of allowing people to sell on the items, or making it a one-time sale only. This would of course also need to make the item non-tradeable.</u>

Polly

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Absolutely not.
This is exactly the same as the creator retaining control of the item even after selling it. This is what we have been discussing in this thread all this time.
Once again, we are NOT talking about 'intellectual property'. Just the individual item.
Not the recipe for Coca-Cola - just an individual bottle.

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Plain as day that you have not dealt with creating CC very much. When you purchase an item like this, you are essentially buying the 'pattern'. You can see how it was made, and therefore replicate it. That is what makes it different from an individual object. If you buy a bottle of Coca-Cola, then unless you are a chemist you're not gonna be able to figure out the recipe very easily, if at all, or how to make the bottle. Same for a bottle of perfume. That is not true of hand crafted objects, to varying degrees. Most anybody that knows anything about the materials can figure out how it was made, if not to the letter then pretty close.....just like with graphics. Slap the graphic in a graphics program and it becomes fairly easy to discern how things were put together to come up with the finished graphic or product, though with graphics if the entire thing has been 'melded' (can't think of the word here) correctly then you cannot separate the different layers, but you can still fiddle with it until you figure out how its done.


But even so, that's not even what we're talking about....these people did not take nodgrees object into a program and redesign it, they sold his object with his name STILL ATTACHED to it, not even trying to cover up the fact that they were selling someone else's creation, thereby implying to the buyer that they did have that permission. That's why person C is not at fault, person B is. Person C probably thought person B and nodgree (person A) had come to an agreement and person B was acting as an outlet, sort of on 'consignment', just like nodgree said he tried to work out with the guy when all was said and done, and person B would not have it, why? Because it would eat into person B's profit, and 'nodgree is unreasonable for wanting a piece of the pie for something HE created alone without a single bit of help or input from person B', yet nobody sees a thing wrong with that, and not only do you not see anything wrong with it, you try to make nodgree out to be somebody on an ego trip because he wants to be compensated for somebody else profitting from his work. As I said earlier...plain to see who's been in the situation, and who hasn't.

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What, in the name of pluperfect hell, is the matter with you????
Hasn't it been said DOZENS of times that this is NOT about "intellectual property"????
Hasn't it been said DOZENS of times that it's not about copying/replicating????
Hasn't it already been acknowledged that <u>copying</u> and selling is the SOLE right of the COPYRIGHT holder???


For Pete's sake, pay attention:
Buy it - then turn around and sell it = ok.
Buy it - copy it - then sell the copy = NOT OK!

This is the law - not the hallucinations you keep throwing on here.

"When you purchase an item like this, you are essentially buying the 'pattern'. You can see how it was made, and therefore replicate it. That is what makes it different from an individual object."
How can it be different from the individual object if it *IS* the individual object???

You're just rambling.

 

[Guest]

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Actually I"m not incorrect.

once I buy something (providing that I take actual possession of purchased merchandise) Its mine to do what I want. I can sell it to my hearts content.

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That is my understanding of how the things work, at least until I can provided with a link or direct quote to the law that states otherwise, at which point I would reconsider my position.

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I'll say the same thing to you I'd say to anybody else. I took the time to educate myself on the issue when I needed to for my own benefit. The information is out there for anybody else who wishes to do the same, but I did not bookmark the sites since after I obtained the knowledge that is all I needed.....but if you are truly interested in becoming versed, it's easy enough to find through any means of searching information on state and federal laws regarding small businesses, wholesale vendors, 'intellectual property', electronic contracts and their enforcements, etc. etc. etc. You might even word things differently and come up with links that I did not look at, so I wish you luck in your search

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If reselling things is illegal... why is ebay still operating?
Why aren't cops shutting down garage/yard sales?
Salvation Army.
Vintage shops.
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Because when a person places things like that on e-bay, or the SA, or a consignment shop, then obviously they are looking to sell it. But if a person is not a wholesale vendor, then they are not looking for someone to buy something from them and then turn around and sell it on e-bay, the SA, etc. etc. etc. The fact that e-bay allows that kind of stuff doesn't surprise me at all though. I read an article the other day that said that they allowed an auction for someone to sell their soul, and they also have a disclaimer in the ToS that says they are not responsible for any item for sale, or any outcome of any transaction, that disputes are between the seller and the sellee. That is how they can get away with it, I assume, because they pass the buck of liability onto the person selling, although in reality they should share part of the culpability themselves, but as already said in numerous places on this thread, what should happen and what *does* happen are two very different things sometime. If people stuck to not doing things that were unethical, there would be no wars even, and the world would be a *MUCH* nicer place.

I'm done with this thread. It is obvious that some of you are so blinded by semantics that you're refusing to see the big picture, and refusing to see that there is a way that would be win/win and would protect everybody involved....protect the seller from feeling like people were ripping off their hard work, and protect the buyer from being perceived to have ripped the seller off. But no, that's too much like right, and too 'hard' so its not something that some people want to see happen.....even IF we waited until after the magic deadline so that, as Gilly insinuated, the devs 'precious time' would not be such an issue.

Take heart nodgree in that there are those who agree with you and believe in the spirit of what you were trying to project. I for one don't think you had ulterior motives or a hidden agenda or anything other than what you stated were the reasons you felt so strongly on the matter. This whole thing will, I hope make some people reconsider their plans on how they plan to market their CC though, and do it on a more customer-by-customer basis rather than making it one of the many things marketed in the AFK stores like you described is now selling your basically stolen wares.

 

[nodgree]

I think we need to lock this thread so we can all cool off, lol.
I dont think there will ever be a common ground on this and I apologize for starting it in the first place.

 

[Guest]

Carrie sorry, I'm not going to read that novel, specially when I know you're wrong.

Nodegree... when you start a thread it becomes the property of the community, a mod won't lock it unless the RoC is repeatedly violated.


Donovan. I fly.

 

[imported_remflyer]

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Is it unethical for a dealer, museum or even his estate to sell a Picasso painting at 1000 X what Picasso sold it for? Of course it isn't, it is current market value. It isn't anymore 'unethical', than selling your $60 dollar lamp for 50 cents at a yard sale. The value of items fluctuates, and so does the fair market value.

Just because someone wants to make a statement or practice their own brand of altruism, does not obligate anyone else to play along. If Creator A wants to make their work available for cheap, that is his choice. But once he offers it for public sale, then Reseller B has an absolute right to purchase it and sell it for more. Creator A got the price he placed on the item....he sold his rights to control what is done with that specific item, there after.

It seems to me, that this discussion is blurring the lines between intellectual property and physical property. What you sell in a store is physical property. What you download from a site or upload into cc, is intellectual property.

The physical item that you put for sale in the store is no longer yours to control once you sell it. What is done physically with that item is no longer your concern, including reselling.

Your intellectual property is yours alone, and no one has the right to claim your image for their own use, on their own cc.

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I agree with Gilly and the others who have posted here that there is nothing unethical in reselling CC. That is how the rl business world works. Some of you are definitely confusing intellectual rights with the rights to resell a purchased item.

When you see creators on the web saying people do not have the right to redistribute their work it is an entirely different thing than reselling an item you purchased in game. When a person redistributes some one else's images on the web they are in effect making illegal copies of that person's work. That is not what's happening here.

If you are an art collector or dealer in rl you have the right to resell your purchase for a higher value. This is a perfectly sound business practice and now I see this being done in game as it is done in rl.

Nodgree, I think the suggestion to put in your CC's description what you sell the item for may help your shop but unless your shop is open 24/7 there will still be those who will pay extra for the convenience of buying the item right away.

 

[Guest]

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I think we need to lock this thread so we can all cool off, lol.
I dont think there will ever be a common ground on this and I apologize for starting it in the first place.

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Don't apologize. As much as we all disagree with each other we are all here providing opinions, and it is good for all our opinions to be voiced, whether they are based on fact or make believe.

I don't think a thread exists where everybody agrees, but it doesn't mean that those threads shouldn't exist, if anything, it means they should exist even more.

 

[Guest]

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At an auction, I'd be able to controll how many and ant what price I wanted my objects to start at. Not just have them show up and buy everything that I had on my lot.


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But, that is what you do when you place the item on the lot and set the price.
You are saying that your item has xxx value and you have x number of them for sale. If someone comes in and buys one or all - they are adhering to your standards of sale. You are saying that it is ok for them to buy up to the maximum number of items at the set price. That is control.
If you want finer control, set out a smaller number at a time, or raise the price, or both.
The only other thing you could do would be to set up a rental/lease program. This would be a way to retain ownership. Of course you would have to charge much less, and I don't know how you could make it work IG.

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Well, I guess you've accomplished your goal to make me look like an idiot. I guess I can just stop debating this now since anything I say has made absolutely no sense.

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I apologize if it seems to you that I am trying to do that.
Although there may be some idiots in this thread, I don't consider you to be one of them.

 

[nodgree]

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Nodgree, I think the suggestion to put in your CC's description what you sell the item for may help your shop but unless your shop is open 24/7 there will still be those who will pay extra for the convenience of buying the item right away.

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Thats the beauty of it, unless we're down for maintenance, between my wife and I, my store is open

 

[nodgree]

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At an auction, I'd be able to controll how many and ant what price I wanted my objects to start at. Not just have them show up and buy everything that I had on my lot.


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But, that is what you do when you place the item on the lot and set the price.
You are saying that your item has xxx value and you have x number of them for sale. If someone comes in and buys one or all - they are adhering to your standards of sale. You are saying that it is ok for them to buy up to the maximum number of items at the set price. That is control.
If you want finer control, set out a smaller number at a time, or raise the price, or both.
The only other thing you could do would be to set up a rental/lease program. This would be a way to retain ownership. Of course you would have to charge much less, and I don't know how you could make it work IG.

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Well, I guess you've accomplished your goal to make me look like an idiot. I guess I can just stop debating this now since anything I say has made absolutely no sense.

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I apologize if it seems to you that I am trying to do that.
Although there may be some idiots in this thread, I don't consider you to be one of them.

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Honestly, i know what I'm trying to get at I just cant seem to find the way to say it without contradicting myself in some way. Its just a game, I think we all need to keep telling ourselves that, lol.

 

[Guest]

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Honestly, i know what I'm trying to get at I just cant seem to find the way to say it without contradicting myself in some way. Its just a game, I think we all need to keep telling ourselves that, lol.

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We all get like that sometimes. Don't worry about it. Your opinions matter regardless of the fact that you have trouble expressing them. In fact, it probably means they matter more, as when we are unable to express ourselves it is usually because we feel so strongly about the subject we are trying to express.

And yes, it is just a game, regardless of the extremes we as the players take it to sometimes.

 

[Guest]

*Puts on Mod Hat*

All threads posted in these forums are considered community property, once posted. Unless a thread is going hopelessly off topic or encouraging the posters to violate the <font color="blue">Stratics Rules of Conduct</font>, or is a duplicate of other threads, a thread will stay open until posters lose interest in it.

*Takes off Mod Hat*

I am sorry you are feeling battered by this topic, but clearly it is one that is in deep need of discussion, or it would not have generated so much heat and debate.

 

[nodgree]

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*Puts on Mod Hat*

All threads posted in these forums are considered community property, once posted. Unless a thread is going hopelessly off topic or encouraging the posters to violate the <font color="blue">Stratics Rules of Conduct</font>, or is a duplicate of other threads, a thread will stay open until posters lose interest in it.

*Takes off Mod Hat*

I am sorry you are feeling battered by this topic, but clearly it is one that is in deep need of discussion, or it would not have generated so much heat and debate.

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I figured it was going to fizzle out and drop to the bottom of the page. Wasnt expecting a war

 

[Guest]

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I'll say the same thing to you I'd say to anybody else. I took the time to educate myself on the issue when I needed to for my own benefit. The information is out there for anybody else who wishes to do the same, but I did not bookmark the sites since after I obtained the knowledge that is all I needed.....but if you are truly interested in becoming versed, it's easy enough to find through any means of searching information on state and federal laws regarding small businesses, wholesale vendors, 'intellectual property', electronic contracts and their enforcements, etc. etc. etc.

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Again this shows you know nothing about how reselling works. For example, a couple years ago I was buying pallets of widgets from a liquidator. Most of these widgets came from Target (returns, shelf pulls ect.) Target sold pallets to the liquidator, the liquidator sold them to me and I sold them on eBay because they belonged to me. Sometimes I sold widgets for MORE than what Target retailed them for. Target didn't come after me because they sold it to the liquidator for a price they were happy with. The liquidator sold it for a price he was happy with. I sold it for a price I was happy with. If my buyers turn around and sell it for more than what they paid me then more power to them. If that happened I would be watching them to see how I could increase my profits.

 

[DGLita]

Well said Sam

If you upload custom content and under price it then you have to expect that speculators with snap it up and sell for more. This is how it works in the real world, buying and selling for profit and this is how it works in sims.

If a store owner wants to take the chance to buy up under priced good quality CC and make a profit on it then so be it, thats the way it is.

What they cannot do is infringe your copyright by copying it and uploading it themselves, but if they buy it from you for the price you wanted, and then sell it on at a higher price, well thats capitalism for you, and long may it live

 

[imported_Shirl1211]

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We have a lot of people doing the same in Second Life - buying someone's freebie giveaway items, then repackaging them and selling them to people who didn't know they were supposed to be freebies - I can't possibly repeat here in words on a 'teen' rated forum the contempt in which these people are held by upstanding members of the community there.

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Yup, this kind of thing is pandemic, basically everywhere. That's why when trying to find graphics for websites, when a person makes graphics and clearly states on their website <font color="red">Not to be redistributed without prior permission by me, or redistrubuted for profit at all </font> and they catch someone doing it, they can actually pursue legal action against that person, if the person is making a profit off of it. If they are just redistributing it without giving credit, but not getting any money for it, then I do not think it is a criminal offense, though.

Now I'm not suggesting that anybody sue anybody here, but that is why EA has stated that it is against game rules to do this, since now that simoleans have RL cash value, that's basically what someone else is doing...taking someone's work and redistributing it for profit, even though cash-in is not enabled yet. If it's not already in the ToS, they need to get it in there pronto since the statement has already been made here, but either way, it is still a malicious and borderline criminal act, and I suppose if a person really gave a damn enough about the principle to get into it, or the theft wa on a large enough scale simolean wise to translate to alot of RL money, then they could.

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You are wrong on this being a criminal act. This is nothing more than open enterprise. It is not against the rules for A to sell to B and turn around and sell it to C for a profit, although I feel it's unfair to the person who created the CC in the 1st place but a retailer would disagree with me and they would be correct. I have seen several items of CC in stores being bought to make a profit. It is also in no way a scam. These's comments are not just opinion, they are factual!

 

[imported_Shirl1211]

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Person C should obviously check around for the best price. I don't walk into a store and buy a §1,200 chair when I know the seller is offering it at §800.

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"when I know" is the operative phrase here. Do you spend an hour checking every single store in the city - and waiting for those who are not open at that time - before buying anything? No, of course you don't.

Remember we are talking about custom created - not catalogue items - here, that aren't widely available and for anyone to sell.

When the creator of the custom content clearly states that the item is not for resale, then the reseller is certainly in 'breach of contract' although it seems at present there is no way to enforce that.

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Again as I say, if there is no copywrit then there is nothing no one and do about it. Plain and simple. We may not like it but that's just the way it is.

 

[Guest]

wow Carrie, you are proven wrong post after post and you still continue to accuse people of stealing. THEY PAID FOR IT. IT IS NOT STEALING. Perhaps you should apply some of your advise to yourself :

"It is obvious that some of you are so blinded by semantics that you're refusing to see the big picture"

The seller is getting paid for their work, they are NOT being ripped off, nor are the resold items stolen merchandise. It is not semantics - it is flat out wrong that you continue to accuse people of stealing when they bought the items fair and square. How can anyone give any credence to what you say when you make untrue statements like that? And you keep talking about honesty and morals?

As for the OP... I think they had a great idea near the beginning of the thread that is the best solution :
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On all my uploads I will be including in the description, "This item can be purchased for "x amount" at "insert store here" or directly from "insert name here". "

If the person doesnt check the description before he/she buys it, then its thier own fault. I dont think any store is going to want to stock an item that makes them look as tho they are over pricing

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[imported_Shirl1211]

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[imported_Shirl1211]

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*TTL*

How about auctions that we should have one day in the future. There are some articles about it on the wiki. Auctions.

Would it be better if creators could sell their items to stores in bulk? Would those that are against this practice today embrace it in an auction setting instead?

Another thought is why not just make a deal with some of these stores, sell to them directly as long as they post a sign advertising you as the creator with your items. Perhaps they would be willing to determine a selling price with your input. They are willing to put time in at a store but not to create, you are willing to create but not being at the top of the list you have a more difficult selling position. This could be a win-win situation. You get to create more, they get to sell more, everyone makes money and customers get what they want. Personally I think it would be best to try to make a good working relationship with several stores. Perhaps offer different stock to some stores for promos or offer limited edition items.

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This is really a good idea. I crafted in BF and AV and as it ended up I was basically suppling other stores with my crafted goods. I was happy because I got what I wanted and they we're happy with thier purchase so it worked out well for all involved.

 

[imported_MARCIN2006]

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Here is my side of the issue...

I spend alot of time making my custom content to sell at my store alone. I have posted signs and even put in the content description that I do not want it resold. I keep my prices low to give newer sims the oppertunity to have something new on a tight budget as well as more wealthy players. I honestly get tired of going to other stores (one in particular that advertises a huge array of cc) and seeing my stuff there after I nicely asked for it not to be resold. If the content is made solely by me, and I pay for it to b e uploaded AND wait patiently for it to be approved, I think I have the right to say, do not buy and re-sell this. I can understand if you are an individual that jsut doesnt want the item anymore and wanna sell it to another. Its more when a store comes in and buy 5 to 10 items for $250 each and then turns around and resells them for $500. The ones doing it are the ones keeping 12 sims on thier lot to remain on the top of the list. It ruins it for me, having a store in the 40's because, the top stores usually get most of the buisness. Meaning sims see my stuff in the top stores first, buy it for an outragoeus price and never realize they could have purchased it from me (the maker) for much lower.

Now, on a side note. If I recolour or just upload a normal Sims 1 object, or an object from TSR, I ALWAYS give credit in the description and give the buyer FULL resale rights because I dont not technically own it.

In conclusion, if stores wanna sell cc at huge prices, why cant they just make thier own as well? Or just find a roomie that can?

Your thoughts?

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We need a feature to block the sale/resale of CC when we upload it.

Also the top 100 list, it needs to be DISABLED!!! I hate it, I cant get my store on the list because I don't have time everyday to play neither do my roomies who are my friends. And we hardly sell any of our CC, I haven't sold one of mine yet my friend sold 2 lol.

In the place of a top 100 list their should be a list that shows all online lots or all online and offline lots!

 

[Shyanne1]

Isn't this what the purpose of CC was all about? Making things and selling them for a profit. Certainly people who make CC cannot expect everyone that buys their work to resell it at the same price or lower? There is no way EA calls this a scam or they would prevent CC from being sold at all. There is also no way to police it. My guess is that if everyone becomes stupid about this and keeps complaining then they will just shut down CC and that will be it. Honestly people, do you think EA is going to go around and make sure that no one sells CC for more than they bought it for? Why not just let us upload to the buy catalog then and let the uploader mark the price? That would stop it because it would be the same price for everyone. If I made CC I would sell it for what I think my time and effort is worth, maybe selling the first one at a high price.

I wish a developer or someone would respond to let us know what their thoughts are on how CC should be distributed or how they designed it to work so people will stop debating whether it's a scam or not.

 

[nodgree]

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... it was like a slap in the face to him to find out the truth of the matter.

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Excuse me? A slap in the face to me? I didnt come on here looking for any truth. I merely stated an opinion of mine and left it open for debate. I dont feel that I was in any way "slapped in the face". I do feel however that your attitude is a bit aggressive on this subject. It was put here for simple debate, not to cut anyone down. Be a bit more mature with your next reply......

 

[imported_Shirl1211]

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This is absolutely correct - in your imagination. But it is not a tenet of law.

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Well, I believe you are incorrect, and my stance is backed up by the policies and disclaimers I have seen on websites of people who create unique work such as this, and cease and decist notices that I have seen when people violate such user agreements and the creator has cared enough to pursue it. Look around on the net, and you too will see some of the same kinds of statements that I am talking about, along with the exact verbage of the laws that back up the claims and cause the complaints filed to be won. I suppose there will be those here that won't believe it though until such complaints are filed within the game. *shrugs* That's fine, it just goes to reinforce nodgree's statement with regards to ethics.

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What about ToS rules..I would think that there would be some kind of disclaimer in there to protect themselves, because what happens in game, happens to EA.

 

[Guest]

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This is absolutely correct - in your imagination. But it is not a tenet of law.

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Well, I believe you are incorrect, and my stance is backed up by the policies and disclaimers I have seen on websites of people who create unique work such as this, and cease and decist notices that I have seen when people violate such user agreements and the creator has cared enough to pursue it. Look around on the net, and you too will see some of the same kinds of statements that I am talking about, along with the exact verbage of the laws that back up the claims and cause the complaints filed to be won. I suppose there will be those here that won't believe it though until such complaints are filed within the game. *shrugs* That's fine, it just goes to reinforce nodgree's statement with regards to ethics.

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What about ToS rules..I would think that there would be some kind of disclaimer in there to protect themselves, because what happens in game, happens to EA.

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Yes, if such a law existed, I would think EA should put it into the ToS to protect themselves.

 

[imported_Shirl1211]

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... it was like a slap in the face to him to find out the truth of the matter.

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Excuse me? A slap in the face to me? I didnt come on here looking for any truth. I merely stated an opinion of mine and left it open for debate. I dont feel that I was in any way "slapped in the face". I do feel however that your attitude is a bit aggressive on this subject. It was put here for simple debate, not to cut anyone down. Be a bit more mature with your next reply......

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I meant no disrespect towards you at all. I just have a problem with people posting thier opinions as fact and leading you to believe that something can be done about your dilema when in all actuality it can't. If you hang around long enough in this forum, you will see what I am talking about. I truly believe that when posting a comment in this forum, and facts are not clear, it should be posted as *IMO* instead of I know this and I know that. I'm sorry you took my comments as an attack towards you because my replies we're specically referring to a person who feels they know much more then what they do. Also, I might add that there is no civil debate offered. I was personally attacked when I made a post yesterday over my frustrations about the stores who hide numerous sims in it to gain top positions so I said I was just going to tie my keyboard down and go AFK.. which I said out of frustration and would not do.I was called a cheater and it was compared to murder, ****, and minors using alcohol and drugs so I may of sounded harsh but sometimes relaying true facts are. What I meant by "slap in the face" was just a figure of speech for you being let down by inaccurate info.

 

[imported_Shirl1211]

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Isn't this what the purpose of CC was all about? Making things and selling them for a profit. Certainly people who make CC cannot expect everyone that buys their work to resell it at the same price or lower? There is no way EA calls this a scam or they would prevent CC from being sold at all. There is also no way to police it. My guess is that if everyone becomes stupid about this and keeps complaining then they will just shut down CC and that will be it. Honestly people, do you think EA is going to go around and make sure that no one sells CC for more than they bought it for? Why not just let us upload to the buy catalog then and let the uploader mark the price? That would stop it because it would be the same price for everyone. If I made CC I would sell it for what I think my time and effort is worth, maybe selling the first one at a high price.

I wish a developer or someone would respond to let us know what their thoughts are on how CC should be distributed or how they designed it to work so people will stop debating whether it's a scam or not.

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I'm sorry, I am not sure who you are referring to with your comment since you just said the same things i've basically been saying and I was replying to Cbrewton and AJ who began commenting right from the beginning, that this a scam and against the rules and CBrewton even went as far as to comment on internet laws but didn't give any kind of detail on them. The person who made the OP shouldn't of had to go through all of this debate. I was the 1st one to reply to him and I told him that I thought it was wrong for people to do that and I wouldn't buy from them. I'd go to the creator and get it for the original selling price. I feel that if people are going to sell someone else's CC they in this game they should of had the ok first but that's just how I feel.

 

[nodgree]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

... it was like a slap in the face to him to find out the truth of the matter.

[/ QUOTE ]

Excuse me? A slap in the face to me? I didnt come on here looking for any truth. I merely stated an opinion of mine and left it open for debate. I dont feel that I was in any way "slapped in the face". I do feel however that your attitude is a bit aggressive on this subject. It was put here for simple debate, not to cut anyone down. Be a bit more mature with your next reply......

[/ QUOTE ]

I meant no disrespect towards you at all. I just have a problem with people posting thier opinions as fact and leading you to believe that something can be done about your dilema when in all actuality it can't. If you hang around long enough in this forum, you will see what I am talking about. I truly believe that when posting a comment in this forum, and facts are not clear, it should be posted as *IMO* instead of I know this and I know that. I'm sorry you took my comments as an attack towards you because my replies we're specically referring to a person who feels they know much more then what they do. Also, I might add that there is no civil debate offered. I was personally attacked when I made a post yesterday over my frustrations about the stores who hide numerous sims in it to gain top positions so I said I was just going to tie my keyboard down and go AFK.. which I said out of frustration and would not do.I was called a cheater and it was compared to murder, ****, and minors using alcohol and drugs so I may of sounded harsh but sometimes relaying true facts are. What I meant by "slap in the face" was just a figure of speech for you being let down by inaccurate info.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its all good. I'm not here to fight with anyone.

I have given this whole store thing alot of thought and in the mean time, found a store that is selling some items for me. It all worked out good

 

[Guest]

*tagging to first*

I got about two pages into this thread before it dawned on me that there are two different issues being argued here!

At issue here is whether or not an object's creator has the right to restrict resale of an item. <font color=red>No, the creator does not.</font color=red>

The secondary issue that has crept in is that of copyright infringement. This issue has no place in this discussion, because copyright is not being infringed upon. In order for that to happen, the object in question has to be copied. As far as I can tell, no objects are being copied. <font color=red>At no point of time is the original artist not being compensated for his or her work</font color=red>.

Let me summarize: Custom content creators do not have the right to restrict what a legitimate buyer of their work does with that item. As long as the buyer is not copying the item, the new owner can legally do whatever he or she wishes with the item, including reselling.

For those of you who called the practice of buying at wholesale and reselling at a markup a scam, I suggest you take a crash course in basic economics. Not only is it not a scam, it is exactly how nearly every store in every non-socialist country works. It's called capitalism, and that's how it works.

 

[imported_Shirl1211]

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<blockquote><hr>

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There is nothing "being a good seller" about taking someone else's work, putting a markup on it, and selling it for a higher price than the original creator.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I meant by that is if they weren't good at selling things, or didn't put the effort into getting to a top store (which I'm sure you will argue doesn't require effort, but rather cheating, but that is an entirely different thread), then nobody would be buying the marked up items.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's been proven repeatedly that getting a top store in these times doesn't require a whole lot of effort. Not to say that *nobody* who has a top store HAS put in the effort, but the person who is doing this to nodgree, as proven by the circumstances presented in his original post, has not put in the effort, so that argument does not hold water here...but you already knew that because you said so yourself, but it is part of this discussion since it is the case here.

Regardless, even if they had put work into it, it still doesnt' mean that is why people are buying the marked up items, more likely it is as nodgree also said, that people just simply click on the top 1 or 2 houses and buy the item for whatever its marked at, not caring if anybody else has it cheaper because they can't be bothered to click on more than the top 10. If things were fair and equal, I'm fairly confident that his store would be in the top 20 at least, if not in the top 10, that is if the cheaters were eliminated.

I am just astounded that so many people are calling this a legal, ethical and or 'good business' practice, but yet find other things that are so closely related that its unbelievable, repugnant. Is it that you just don't *see* how the things are related, or what?

As I stated before, if nothing else it's a side of the times RL that is carrying over into SL, which is sad since so many people say they don't want SL to so closely resemble SL.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would really like to know which way to think. In other threads you make comparisons between RL and SL but what your saying here is contradicting that. I don't know for the life of me why you can't just post your opinion about something and be done with it but no, you have to disagree and debate almost every other persons advice. You are wrong about the laws and if you think you are right, then show me or direct me to a site where I can find it on my own. CC items created and sold in EA Land could not carry copywrites simply because ToS claims the copywrites for all things in the game. I think you have your laws mixed up somewhere in your head. Several people have tried to explain this to you and I counted at least 20 comments by you alone giving the same advice on the legalities of CC in EA Land. Now..pick a post and read it very slowly and maybe somethng might click. If not, treat yourself to a nice wedge of cheese.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Let me summarize: Custom content creators do not have the right to restrict what a legitimate buyer of their work does with that item. As long as the buyer is not copying the item, the new owner can legally do whatever he or she wishes with the item, including reselling.

[/ QUOTE ]
Just because something is 'legal' or 'permitted' doesn't make it morally right, of course.

Second Life has this permissions system that I've been roundabout referring to - since TSO is trying to emulate SL's success in so many ways, I am honestly quite surprised that the permissions system isn't used. Basically you can have mod/copy/transfer. I've recently bought some trees in SL. I could either buy a transferable one for about L$250 - which I can then give away to another player should I no longer want it, one copy, for whatever price I wanted - but as I am a builder I bought the copy/no transfer version for L$2500. A lot more money, but basically I can make as many copies of it as I wish to use for my own purpose in as many places as I wish until the end of time, but I cannot sell it to another player, essentially removing the profit ability of the original seller to be able to sell it by passing it off as my 'own work'. Modify is used so if people want to change the wallpaper in a house, for example, they can - but usually not to sell the house on again, being able to rez another copy from inventory if there's a mistake or something else silly happens.

<blockquote><hr>

For those of you who called the practice of buying at wholesale and reselling at a markup a scam, I suggest you take a crash course in basic economics. Not only is it not a scam, it is exactly how nearly every store in every non-socialist country works. It's called capitalism, and that's how it works.

[/ QUOTE ]The difference there, of course, is that the item was designed and sold by the manufacturer by the crateful to be sold wholesale. Custom content in TSO is not, unless the person 'does a deal' with a store.

One of my hobbies is model railroading. A manufacturer sells an item to a store for £60, puts in the catalogue a 'recommended retail price' of £90, but the store sells it for £85. Another store decides to put it for sale at £100. It doesn't take me too long to look through a magazine, see that trader A is selling the exact same item for £15 more than trader B, so trader B is going to get my business and the business of anyone else who reads the magazines. Unfortunately with this custom content, we have no way of seeing that the manufacturer didn't intend the item to be sold for a maximum of £90, or that someone is selling the exact same item for £15 less. That's not just bad business to overprice items - it's also unethical by knowingly ripping off a customer who for whatever reason simply doesn't know they can buy the same thing cheaper elsewhere.

Of course, it's much easier in model railroading because if I am wanting to buy an item of rolling stock, it's almost definitely going to have been made by one of three main manufacturers, so there isn't much to search through - but should people really have to look through 50 stores just to check they aren't being ripped off just to find the one original creator of the item? Of course not

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

CC items created and sold in EA Land could not carry copywrites simply because ToS claims the copywrites for all things in the game.

[/ QUOTE ]Then what is the incentive for anyone to bother creating custom content, if you lose all rights to it, and there's nothing to stop other people making an unethical profit off of your work?

At least in Second Life I know that whatever I create is my own and remains my own, and I have a say in whether a person is allowed to copy or resell my work once they buy it. Granted, I don't "sell" a lot of individual items - more my time to do custom work for people - but the principle remains the same.

Right now, there's a few people playing with custom content 'because they can', and it's fun to personalise your lot (something I believe is one of the biggest attractions of offline sims), but I'm certainly not going to put lots of effort into learning custom content in TSO simply to watch someone else making a dishonest profit out of my work.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

One of my hobbies is model railroading. A manufacturer sells an item to a store for £60, puts in the catalogue a 'recommended retail price' of £90, but the store sells it for £85. Another store decides to put it for sale at £100. It doesn't take me too long to look through a magazine, see that trader A is selling the exact same item for £15 more than trader B, so trader B is going to get my business and the business of anyone else who reads the magazines. Unfortunately with this custom content, we have no way of seeing that the manufacturer didn't intend the item to be sold for a maximum of £90, or that someone is selling the exact same item for £15 less. That's not just bad business to overprice items - it's also unethical by knowingly ripping off a customer who for whatever reason simply doesn't know they can buy the same thing cheaper elsewhere.

[/ QUOTE ]It is the buyer's responsibility to be aware of the value of an item he or she wants to buy, and it is the buyer's reponsibility to know how much he or she is willing to pay for said item. If I wanted to pull my old, dusty 20-inch TV out of the basement and put it up for sale for $25,000 - and someone comes along and actually buys it - have I done anything wrong? As long as I do not misrepresent the product in any way, I am free to charge whatever someone is willing to pay. It is by the same principle that the local 7-Eleven is able to charge $4.50 for a gallon of milk that sells for $2.75 in grocery stores, and the same principle that allows gas station "A" to charge 45 cents per gallon more than gas station "B" down the street.

 

[imported_Shirl1211]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

CC items created and sold in EA Land could not carry copywrites simply because ToS claims the copywrites for all things in the game.

[/ QUOTE ]Then what is the incentive for anyone to bother creating custom content, if you lose all rights to it, and there's nothing to stop other people making an unethical profit off of your work?

At least in Second Life I know that whatever I create is my own and remains my own, and I have a say in whether a person is allowed to copy or resell my work once they buy it. Granted, I don't "sell" a lot of individual items - more my time to do custom work for people - but the principle remains the same.

Right now, there's a few people playing with custom content 'because they can', and it's fun to personalise your lot (something I believe is one of the biggest attractions of offline sims), but I'm certainly not going to put lots of effort into learning custom content in TSO simply to watch someone else making a dishonest profit out of my work.

[/ QUOTE ]



First and foremost, profit!!! I mean afterall, wasn't that the main intent of Custom Content when it was introduced into the game? I believe it was along with the enjoyment of making it. And i'm not sure where you come up with the idea that it's unethical. Also when you designe and build the home you say you have planned in SL, does that mean that the Contractee is never allowed to sell his property? BTW, SL doesn't belong in this topic if you remember correctly. You really need to dispose of the terms scamming, cheating and unethical if you persist in using it for things it don't pertain too. Seriously, all it is doing is taking away from the threads and steering arguements in a whole new direction. However, you and Cbrewton enjoy the drama so carry on and so will the rest of us!

 

[Guest]

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Then what is the incentive for anyone to bother creating custom content, if you lose all rights to it, and there's nothing to stop other people making an unethical profit off of your work?

[/ QUOTE ]

The seller is still making the same profit off of it. They are probably selling more of the good, therefore making a greater profit. The only item they are losing the right to is the individual item sold, they are not losing their intellectual property rights. This is part of economics, as it has been said, and is present in the real world, as it has been said.
<blockquote><hr>


At least in Second Life I know that whatever I create is my own and remains my own, and I have a say in whether a person is allowed to copy or resell my work once they buy it. Granted, I don't "sell" a lot of individual items - more my time to do custom work for people - but the principle remains the same.

[/ QUOTE ]
In TSO, No Copy is an automatic thing. Nobody has the right to copy the item but the creator. This has nothing to do with selling copies. It has to do with selling individual items which have been purchased from the creator.

-------

It's bedtime. This is an exhausting thread. All I can think of is:

.

I'll be here tomorrow, and I'm sure I'll be arguing the same points that have been argued all day today, and I'm sure those that refuse to catch on will continue to refuse to catch on, regardless of the fact that an Economics 101 course will prove their so-called "laws" and "bad ethics" to be imaginary.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

It is the buyer's responsibility to be aware of the value of an item he or she wants to buy, and it is the buyer's reponsibility to know how much he or she is willing to pay for said item. If I wanted to pull my old, dusty 20-inch TV out of the basement and put it up for sale for $25,000 - and someone comes along and actually buys it - have I done anything wrong? As long as I do not misrepresent the product in any way, I am free to charge whatever someone is willing to pay. It is by the same principle that the local 7-Eleven is able to charge $4.50 for a gallon of milk that sells for $2.75 in grocery stores, and the same principle that allows gas station "A" to charge 45 cents per gallon more than gas station "B" down the street.

[/ QUOTE ]Not sure I understand your analogy.

If someone buys a dusty old TV for a ridiculous price *cough* then it doesn't take a lot of intelligence to know that they could probably get a better deal on a newer, better item from a local shop. But this isn't the same principle. It's like someone buying TV's from store A for $500 each then putting them in their window for $600 each.

In any regular town, you don't get hundreds of stores that could sell any item so you need to check every single one to get the best deal - there might be 4 places that sell TV's, so a quick search can tell you exactly where to get the best deal. Unfortunately, TSO stores don't specialise, so you'd have to check every single store in the town, and be quite surprised to find that the pet store actually has the TV you want for sale, albeit £100 more than the TV shop can get the item wholesale cheaper for.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

First and foremost, profit!!! I mean afterall, wasn't that the main intent of Custom Content when it was introduced into the game? I believe it was along with the enjoyment of making it. And i'm not sure where you come up with the idea that it's unethical. Also when you designe and build the home you say you have planned in SL, does that mean that the Contractee is never allowed to sell his property?

[/ QUOTE ]No, it doesn't mean that the person is never allowed to resell (although I can make it that way if I choose) - however it would be wrong of them to buy my house for L$500 then rebox it and sell it for L$1000. Lots of people do, and the vast majority of the community look down upon them like the parasites they are. Sure, profit is part of the deal - but to reward the work of the creator, not someone who just buys, reprices, and puts out on sale again.

<blockquote><hr>

BTW, SL doesn't belong in this topic if you remember correctly.

[/ QUOTE ]I disagree. Second Life is based entirely around 'custom content', and has a very successful model. TSO is trying to emulate that success, albeit in a very rudimentary way, and by explaining a system that works, EA might possibly learn how do to this properly.

<blockquote><hr>

You really need to dispose of the terms scamming, cheating and unethical if you persist in using it for things it don't pertain too.

[/ QUOTE ]I think it does. Sorry you disagree. Tell me, which side are you on? Do you buy other people's work then resell it for a profit?

<blockquote><hr>

Seriously, all it is doing is taking away from the threads and steering arguements in a whole new direction. I use to enjoy posting my opinion but between you and CBrewton trying too discredit everyones opinions I am losing my desires to even visit City Hall because I swear, all you two do is create drama for everyone.

[/ QUOTE ]Feel free to put me on ignore if you don't like what I have to say. As long as I remain within the rules of the board, I will continue to post what I like regardless of your feelings on the matter, until a moderator tells me officially. Just because something isn't "directly part of" the discussion does not mean that parallels from other online games is not totally relevant.

 

[imported_Shirl1211]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

First and foremost, profit!!! I mean afterall, wasn't that the main intent of Custom Content when it was introduced into the game? I believe it was along with the enjoyment of making it. And i'm not sure where you come up with the idea that it's unethical. Also when you designe and build the home you say you have planned in SL, does that mean that the Contractee is never allowed to sell his property?

[/ QUOTE ]No, it doesn't mean that the person is never allowed to resell (although I can make it that way if I choose) - however it would be wrong of them to buy my house for L$500 then rebox it and sell it for L$1000. Lots of people do, and the vast majority of the community look down upon them like the parasites they are. Sure, profit is part of the deal - but to reward the work of the creator, not someone who just buys, reprices, and puts out on sale again.

<blockquote><hr>

BTW, SL doesn't belong in this topic if you remember correctly.

[/ QUOTE ]I disagree. Second Life is based entirely around 'custom content', and has a very successful model. TSO is trying to emulate that success, albeit in a very rudimentary way, and by explaining a system that works, EA might possibly learn how do to this properly.

<blockquote><hr>

You really need to dispose of the terms scamming, cheating and unethical if you persist in using it for things it don't pertain too.

[/ QUOTE ]I think it does. Sorry you disagree. Tell me, which side are you on? Do you buy other people's work then resell it for a profit?

<blockquote><hr>

Seriously, all it is doing is taking away from the threads and steering arguements in a whole new direction. I use to enjoy posting my opinion but between you and CBrewton trying too discredit everyones opinions I am losing my desires to even visit City Hall because I swear, all you two do is create drama for everyone.

[/ QUOTE ]Feel free to put me on ignore if you don't like what I have to say. As long as I remain within the rules of the board, I will continue to post what I like regardless of your feelings on the matter, until a moderator tells me officially. Just because something isn't "directly part of" the discussion does not mean that parallels from other online games is not totally relevant.

[/ QUOTE ]

I will only respond to what I feel is important. If you read my reply regarding the auction, you will see that I am a crafter. I priced my items to cover my cost of building and profit as well. Some store owners were buying me out everyday and I went snooping one day and sure enough, there sat crafted items made by me. At first I was a little peeved but after negotiating with the other store owner we came to a fisable agreement and all the rest is history. I don't see everything as negative as you do though. I am not quick to anger and even though I prefer to buy from the maker doesn't make me any better then the other person because no one was hurt in the transaction. If it were me I really wouldn't mind if they bought it since I set then price and my goal was to sell. Another thing I would do though is to make more of the same item and sell it for more than the original set and just a bit lower then the other store. You could make a big profit that way.

 

[imported_Shirl1211]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

Custom content should be set to "no resale" unless the original creator specifically permits it - perhaps by a rudimentary tickbox permissions system?

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent idea, maybe there's some way that I (or Nikki and I, if she would help since I'm a Wiki noob? LOL) could make a Wiki page on this idea, linking back to this post giving credit to you as the one that thought of it. This is something that should have been in the original design for CC, but I'm not sure that EA was aware of the laws regarding virtual property, or that players would have such strong feelings on both sides of the issue. Those players that don't care could just set the permissions to indicate such, those that do ould also, just as we have roomie building permissions....some owners give roomies building rights straight off, others wait for varying lengths of time, others still don't give them at all unless its a sim that they've known for a significant amount of time. A system like you suggest would be fair to all, with nobody losing, especially since 'sell back' has been disabled in the game anyway, so other items can't be sold back to EA for simoleans......this is just one more things players won't be able to sell or resell for simoleans if the creator doesn't want them to.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe its not such an excellent idea. I highly doubt a person is going to purchase an items and say 6 months down the road decide to rececorate and *WHAM* automatic loss to the buyer because everything he bought would have to be given away or deleted. That sounds like a waste of time and simoleans and it would deferr way too many buyers. One thing you are ignoring or fail to acknowledge is nobody lost anything except some respect for the person who bought the CC for resale. Alot of what you have posted pertains to things of a different degree and most attorneys I know won't touch a case unless you can prove a significant loss and in this case of CC it would be laughed at since items are purchased with simoleans unless of course you can surf the internet and find an attorney who accepts them. There are absolutely no legal grounds for a civil suit here. I'm not sure why your even bringing the laws into this thread.

 

[imported_Shirl1211]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

We are just going to have to agree to disagree, because there's no way you can know how I *do* know that what I am saying is correct, but the way you interpret them is a common interpretation and is what causes the biggest amount of the disputes that happen when a creator goes after someone who has ripped off their work, a large portion of which come out in favor of the creator

[/ QUOTE ]

The original creator's name is still on the custom content, reselling is not "ripping off their work". Somebody taking the design and uploading it as their own is ripping off someone's work. Reselling it is not.

I like AJ's suggestion of being able to set custom content to no resale. Uploaders should have the option of allowing people to sell on the items, or making it a one-time sale only. This would of course also need to make the item non-tradeable.

Polly

[/ QUOTE ]


Again I have to disagree that its a not a very good idea for the simple fact that as it stands right now, the creators can price and sell thier items abundently but if we go with the route of no resale and non-transferable, buyers such as myself aren't going to want to be stuck with a house full of new furniture and have to make the choice down the road as to "do I want to redocorate and lose all the simoleans I spent". I just feel that alot of conservatives like myself would think about this aspect of this new rule and stop buying.

 

[Guest]

My opinion on the whole matter is this.....
If someone buys a cc object with the intention of using only for oneself and then later has no use for it, than I don't think it's a problem if they sell it to one person. The people that go into someones store and buys up all of their inventory to re-sell is the people that piss me off! First off, that is laziness....they should work hard and make their own cc things to sell, not take the easier softer way out by selling others hard work.
Same goes with rare pets. I've pulled for hours on end and it grinds me when people come into my store and buy up "multiple" rares to just turn around and sell for a much higher price. Granted, there is no rule that say's you can't do that, but have some respect for the people that work hard in this game.

 

[HoTDeViL]

<blockquote><hr>

I have actually solved my own problem here and, hopefully other cc creators will follow my lead.

On all my uploads I will be including in the description, "This item can be purchased for "x amount" at "insert store here" or directly from "insert name here". "

If the person doesnt check the description before he/she buys it, then its thier own fault. I dont think any store is going to want to stock an item that makes them look as tho they are over pricing

[/ QUOTE ]

If the item is set for sale you cannot view the description. so customers would see this after their purchase.

I for myself agree to the poster in some way. not because another gets out profit if he/she is reselling my items, but i am sad for the customers who buy it there because they can get it cheaper from the creator themself.

I am creator in Second Life also and there we have the same problem. if anyone is buying an item from you he/she is the new owner. they just can resell it like they want. The only way for us in SL is we can make an item Copy or Trans. if you make it copy the buyer can make as many copies as he/she wants but is not able to resell it.

 

[rieley]

<blockquote><hr>

You're missing the whole point behind the laws. Anywhere, if a person says 'do not redistribute my work for profit', you CAN NOT do it, period. It doesn't have to do with selfishness, or meanness, it has to do with the law. If a person neglects to mention this anywhere and just *assumes* that people will not do it, then yeah shame on them and there's nothing they can do about it later, but when you buy something from someone, with that clause attached, and you violate that clause, then that's an illegal act, period. People who do not care about it will just leave that statement off, and then anybody can do whatever they want to with their work. If you don't care, then make CC and leave that statement off, but don't criticize people because they do care, or make it sound like breaking the law is *no big deal*, because it is a very big deal.

[/ QUOTE ]

When a person says 'do not redistribute my work for profit', they are stating do not take my work and make a profit. This is not the same as a person wishing to sell their work. When a person sells their product, they are giving you title to the product. Ownership of the product. That is the law.

Example, you purchase a DVD. You have title to the DVD and may resell it. You may not make copies of the DVD and sell the copies. Same as being in a used clothing store, you can find name brand clothing being resold. However you cannot make clothing and place another company's name on your clothing. Nor can you take another's clothing and put your name on it. You may resell, you own the product...you do not own copyrights.

 

[rieley]

"If reselling things is illegal... why is ebay still operating?
Why aren't cops shutting down garage/yard sales?
Salvation Army.
Vintage shops.
??? "

This subject is getting much debate, however the answer is not that difficult. I'm sure I'm not the only person here with access to legal advice. My bf is an attorney and I did get him to read these boards. He said this wasn't a complicated case, once a product is sold to the public, the seller no longer has rights to that particular product. That particular product is owned by the buyer. For those that do not want their CC resold, simply do a rental.

Legal problems come into play when a person attempts to 'copy' another's work and pass it off as their own.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

CC items created and sold in EA Land could not carry copywrites simply because ToS claims the copywrites for all things in the game.

[/ QUOTE ]Then what is the incentive for anyone to bother creating custom content, if you lose all rights to it, and there's nothing to stop other people making an unethical profit off of your work?

At least in Second Life I know that whatever I create is my own and remains my own, and I have a say in whether a person is allowed to copy or resell my work once they buy it. Granted, I don't "sell" a lot of individual items - more my time to do custom work for people - but the principle remains the same.

Right now, there's a few people playing with custom content 'because they can', and it's fun to personalise your lot (something I believe is one of the biggest attractions of offline sims), but I'm certainly not going to put lots of effort into learning custom content in TSO simply to watch someone else making a dishonest profit out of my work.

[/ QUOTE ]
One of these days, you are going to make a post that does NOT reference SL in some comparative way, and I am going to fall on my frikkin' butt.

On topic: Is there anything more unique than an artist's work? A painting, sculpture, etc.? Certainly not. Many hours of work, dedication, even love, can go into the work.
Yet - when that work is sold (and the artist does sell them, you know), does anyone believe that the work still belongs to him? Or that the artist has the right to tell you, the buyer when/if you can sell it? And for how much?
It's not immoral, unethical or illegal for a businessman to buy merchandise that he believes he can re-sell for a profit. That's what 'business' *is*.
The real issue here is the abuse of free accounts and the "hide" feature to artificially boost visitor hours to gain a spot on the list that is not deserved - making the lot in question more easily accessible to prospective customers.
Without that unfair advantage, competition would come down to more realistic things, like prices, customer service, selection, etc.
<blockquote><hr>

but I'm certainly not going to put lots of effort into learning custom content in TSO simply to watch someone else making a dishonest profit out of my work.

[/ QUOTE ]
As has been pointed out several times - it's not your work anymore. Once uploaded to EA Land, your intellectual property becomes theirs.
It seems to me that this fact would be more to your 'torch weilding, pitchfork waving' liking.

 

[Shyanne1]

This is all going to be a mute point soon. If we limit sims from re-selling items then pretty soon CC will just stagnate because of the item limit. This is just the beginning and I see lots of CC out there. If I have to buy everything for a successful house that means that room for CC is very limited and if I can't resell it then either I won't buy it or buy only one or two items. Does SL have an object limit?

 

[nodgree]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

I have actually solved my own problem here and, hopefully other cc creators will follow my lead.

On all my uploads I will be including in the description, "This item can be purchased for "x amount" at "insert store here" or directly from "insert name here". "

If the person doesnt check the description before he/she buys it, then its thier own fault. I dont think any store is going to want to stock an item that makes them look as tho they are over pricing

[/ QUOTE ]

If the item is set for sale you cannot view the description. so customers would see this after their purchase.

I for myself agree to the poster in some way. not because another gets out profit if he/she is reselling my items, but i am sad for the customers who buy it there because they can get it cheaper from the creator themself.

I am creator in Second Life also and there we have the same problem. if anyone is buying an item from you he/she is the new owner. they just can resell it like they want. The only way for us in SL is we can make an item Copy or Trans. if you make it copy the buyer can make as many copies as he/she wants but is not able to resell it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasnt aware of this, I thought the customer was given the opertunity to read the description before buying. I think that should be implemented.

Geez, guess I'm gonna have to just work harder to beat out the AFK stores to get my cc seen

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

One of these days, you are going to make a post that does NOT reference SL in some comparative way, and I am going to fall on my frikkin' butt.

[/ QUOTE ]Name me one other online game that uses custom created content as comprehensively as SL, and then you have a point. Until then, we only have SL to compare against as a benchmark of how custom content should be handled.

Deal with it.

You know, if you didn't want to argue with me, you could just put me on ignore, rather than complaining every time I make a perfectly legitimate, on topic, comparison between the games.

 

[imported_Gracie Nito]

Just tagging to last......


When you upload anything to the game it becomes the property of EA. While EA is giving you the right to sell your creations, you have given up your rights to control the distribution of those creations. EA would even have the right to add 10,000 of your object in game and hand one out to every player, if they so choose.

Once you sell an item in the game, it is no longer yours to control. You can put all the warnings in the world and put up signs saying you don't want your objects re-distributed all you want but there is nothing you can do about it. You relinquished that right when you uploaded the object into the game.

 

[imported_CherryBomb]

Reply to noone in particular.

Adam Smith must be rolling over in his grave right now.

CherryBomb

 

[imported_Qute Pi]

This is what I decided to do.

I made a sign for "Approved Store Seller" of my designs. The approved store I use get a sign to put on their property. I also advertise this store in my bio as approved.
I know I can't spend all my time looking around to see if people are reselling. So I try my best to direct them to the store with the best price. Since I also like to give good prices so all can afford, the stores I use have special price agreements. Most likely unless its someone getting rid of one of my items at a "garage sale" the price will be best at my approved store. I leave it up to a better price and advertising to hopefully push sims into buying from the appropriate places.

***Support your custom content creators and try to buy from their approved places.***