Can anyone think of 1 good reason to have a 5 or 10 sec delay between bod turn-ins?

[imported_mr.blackmage]

Well I could live under a rock and not research things too. So can anyone. However if you ever showed even the slightest interest as to WHY people script, you could use the more advanced side of the internet, called Google. And FYI, scripting isn't a horrible thing. You would not have a functioning computer without this knowledge. It is agreed that using scripts to gain resources is a bad thing, but using something to make up for UO's 10+ year old code is hardly a nefarious thing. Is it wrong? According to EA, yes. In the sense that it is available to anyone, and MOST people (probably around 70% of UO's population) don't like clicking the EXACT same thing on a menu 300,000 times) like having functioning wrists as they age, then yeah, I don't think it's so bad. Then again, I would never call the police about someone passing me doing 10 over the speedlimit, while there are definitely people out there that do this very thing.

This entire argument would be null and void if EA updated their game so that everything wasn't extremely repetetive. But as other people have said, if all you have is an opinion without any sort of knowledge of the topic at hand, then I think it's best to stay quiet.

 

[Basara]

Thank you for proving me right, Lord Chaos.

Lots of replies to my proof, ZERO evidence.

And, deletion of all the proof against your statement in your reply.

Welcome to my "ignore" list (not the actual stratics one, YET - but just the list of people who have NO grounds for their positions, yet try to force them down others' throats).

 

[Basara]

To "work around" the delay would have to mess with the SERVER code, so I think EA would take very serious offense to someone hacking the servers.

And, even most delay supporters agree that 10 seconds is too much.

Those of us arguing (as we did in NOVEMBER, when this first came up) for a 5 second delay ARE the ones doing it efficiently, without illegal scripts or UOA macros (though how one makes a UO macro for turning stuff in and getting a new BOD from the NPC is beyond me).

As long as the player turning in the BODs IS REQUESTING A REPLACEMENT BOD WITH EACH TURN-IN (which any non-scripter should - that's one more chance at something good), 5 seconds would be a NON-ISSUE.

NOT getting replacement BODs is the only "fast" way (if my way is "slow", which it's not) I can see for turn-ins that would have an issue with a 5-second timer. And, doing that is foolhardy for any legitimate crafter. I'm beginning to think most of the arguments against a delay of 5 seconds is based on doing turn-ins without new BOD requests, which is something that only two types would do - neophyte players (who don't understand the new system) and scripters turning in for rewards only, not to cycle BODs (and may very well be using older scripts that they never bothered to add the "request" process to), and are more concerned with their item count than a handful of extra BODs (even though about 1 in 9 small BODs, by type, actually fit a barbed large).

 

[imported_mr.blackmage]

What? Why would they have to hack the server code? There have been a few ways posted already about how to get around the delay, the main one being that what the heck does it matter for a robot? These scripting operations have millions of the supplies stockpiled, so it would be years before they took a noticable hit from the change.

And any sort of delay is noticeable. Just like some players will swear that 2/5 and 2/6 are identical, and I can use 2/5 and get pissed off in the first 3 seconds because of the recovery message. That .25 is a LONG time if you're doing something a lot. You're right, I don't know how long it currently takes. But I do know that I tend to do things as quick as possible in a game, so yeah.

 

[Connor_Graham]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

For those that say they can turn one in every 2 seconds, why don't you take the extra 3 seconds to sort? You're going to do it anyway, why not when you first get the Bod?

[/ QUOTE ]

That was explained to you above, you just need to read.

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously it wasn't explained clearly enough, was part of some vague reference you may or may not have made, or I simply missed it in this very long thread that I DID READ. Instead of posting comments that add zero weight to anything you have to say, how about actually answering the question? It just might add weight to your argument, but then again, it just might not.

 

[Spree]

I do know how to use google, I use UOA so I don't have to click some thing 300,000 times. But I will not be a little punk cheater that uses scripts to fill bods then gate in and turn in and the tens of thousands all day, when I'm at work.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Did I really just read a "you're right and I was wrong so I am putting you on ignore" post?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, might point out that she can't put me on ignore (but on the flipside I can't put her on ignore either)

And amen to the rest of your post.

 

[Guest]

Researching and caring about the game doesn't make you a cheater, quite the contrary.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

As long as the player turning in the BODs IS REQUESTING A REPLACEMENT BOD WITH EACH TURN-IN (which any non-scripter should - that's one more chance at something good), 5 seconds would be a NON-ISSUE.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL? You take 5 seconds to drag a bod onto the NPC, then get a new one?

You're making assumptions which we know simply aren't true.

<blockquote><hr>

Lots of replies to my proof

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't exactly call that proof.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Obviously it wasn't explained clearly enough, was part of some vague reference you may or may not have made, or I simply missed it in this very long thread that I DID READ. Instead of posting comments that add zero weight to anything you have to say, how about actually answering the question? It just might add weight to your argument, but then again, it just might not.

[/ QUOTE ]

I appologize Connor, I was being agitated and replied a little snippy to you.

The short version:

The issue is that since we *don't* have a script to do the things for us, we have to do it how it is comfortable for us and our mind...and for me and others doing action A B C A B C A B C A B C A B C A B C is disruptive, we like to do things like A A A A A A A A then B B B B B B B B then C C C C C C C C. Hope that makes sense.

Now if I was a scripter as Freja so nicely suggest, it wouldn't matter if it was ABC or A A B B C C, the script handles it without fuzz whatsoever and there'd be nothing to complain about.

The only ones that would be affected scripterwise would be the people who turn into like 17.000+ BODs per day, which is just ludicrious to even go after in this way if it was even possible to do that many bods (Remember you have to load and unload, craft, fill the bods, etc.)

And honestly, if Mythic cannot "identify" and ban a scripter that turns in 17.000+ BODs *EVERY DAY*, then its a sad state of affairs, wouldn't you agree?

 

[Connor_Graham]

"The issue is that since we *don't* have a script to do the things for us, we have to do it how it is comfortable for us and our mind...and for me and others doing action A B C A B C A B C A B C A B C A B C is disruptive, we like to do things like A A A A A A A A then B B B B B B B B then C C C C C C C C. Hope that makes sense."

This just sounds to me like a refusal to change a routine simply because it's routine, even though making the change would make it so the delay didn't affect the overall time spent working Bods, just the order the routine is done in. This makes no sense.

In short, it's refusing to change for the sake of change.

I'm sure there's an old adage for that somewhere...

 

[Al Thorin]

<blockquote><hr>

In short, it's refusing to change for the sake of change.

I'm sure there's an old adage for that somewhere...

[/ QUOTE ]
Hardly, it not wanting to change how you do things because you're happy with how you do it.
It is quite true that most people will do better doing AAAA BBBB CCCC as oposed to ABCABCABCABC, it's a rythm we get used to, and yes, many people don't want loose their rythm, as in many cases, it's the most efficent way they do it.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Did I really just read a "you're right and I was wrong so I am putting you on ignore" post?


[/ QUOTE ]

He is not right, he is an annoying poster who think he is right if he tells the same over and over.
I use to ignore him and I will do it again. He is just not worth my time.

 

[imported_mr.blackmage]

It was more towards the point that simply knowing about the sites shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Guest]

Uhm no, its called refusing to change because whats its changing to isn't a fun way of doing things.

 

[Connor_Graham]

<blockquote><hr>

Uhm no, its called refusing to change because whats its changing to isn't a fun way of doing things.

[/ QUOTE ]

So sorting Bods while you're turning them in instead of afterwards changes the fun factor how?

You're still doing A, B and C. A, B and C will still be A, B and C, they'll just be performed in a different order, which if it wasn't fun in the order of AAA, BBB, CCC, then it's not going to be any more or less fun if they're done in A, B then C order.

I'm sorry, but your argument makes no sense at all.

 

[Guest]

Maybe if I was a script your arguement would make sense, because yes indeed the order and rythm doesn't matter to a script.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Once again, that's just refusing to change for the sake of change, and that argument holds no water.

 

[Guest]

And again, its no such thing. I do such things in certain rythms are its just stressful and not fun. Not being able to rapidly do one thing, then rapidly doing another while concentrating on just that thing is extremely disruptive and annoying.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

meh! Couldn't find a quote about "sake of change", didn't expect to ... the variations on "Dogs and tricks" managed one grin though:

"You can teach and old dog new tricks ... whats the point though? he'll be dead soon! " ... but
thats just as "Off Topic" as "players adapting to change" ... hmmm ... which ... oddly ... DOES seem to be on topic ...

meh! sidelined again ...

Back to topic: "Can anyone think of 1 good reason to have a 5 or 10 sec delay between bod turn-ins? "
yes ... a few did come up with 1 good reason.
MOST would prefer a 5, none seem "stuck" on a holy crusade for 10, a few offered caps and scaled delay increases ...
at least 1 offered to go back to the static 1- 6 hour delay ...

The primary argument against any added delay was that it would "only" affect legitimate casual/power players.
At 5 seconds ... which is the most likely implementation ... the least amount of impact is perceived by legit players.

The offset/tradeoff, for the players, TO accept it: the rewards got a long requested buff and shine ...
Now, all runics and kits ... are worth keeping/using, or at least the bother of putting on a vendor for small prices.

That there would be "Zero Impact" on scritter scum ... Also pretty well "countered/dismissed"
At the least: there would need to be 4 more turn in bots created and staged and supplied
to maintain current production
And, to "pay for" that additional 4 ...prices would need to go up, OR, take the "hit" as a cost of doing business.
IF my suggested "penalty for canceling 5bod offers in 10 minutes"(or a variation thereof) were implemented ...
Then it could be said that the scritter scum were MOST affected and legit players the least.

The scritter scum, not only have to expand the turnin end of their operation ...
They have to do that in a "diluted" market ...ie. barbed kits are NOT "more valuable"
barbed kits got no buff ..charges, mods, intensities ...same same same ...

Time to quit arguing about individual preferences about pack orginization and mouse movements, and recognize that "big picture wise"

this was a good change

for the game

Burma Shave

 

[Guest]

RTLFC

It isn't the change. If this change would stop scripting, I'd be for it. It's being forced to change with this and other "little" annoyances when in the grand scheme of things it really isn't going to fix scripting or even make a significant dent. It's like putting a band-aid on the stump of a severed arm... sure it might soak up some of the bleeding for like 0.005 seconds, but then its useless.

 

[Guest]

So after 9 pages of replies, the only supposedly good reason for this is to slow down the scripters that turn in 10000+ bods per day. I think we can all agree that it's a small number of people doing this many. So the change has a very minor impact to the scripters and creates a very annoying situation for many of the real players.

It seems most of the people that agree with this are just saying that it won't be a major annoyance, but they do agree that it will be an annoyance. There is a very very small percentage of people that actually like the change. Most are just saying they can live with it. I could live with a squirrel glued to the back of my head, but why the hell would I want to if it didn't accomplish anything.

 

[Guest]

I disagree on several levels.

First of all, to me, the 10 second timer not only affects how many bods you can turn in, it affects how many you can get back. This is a way to try and reduce the flow of BoD's overall. And I think it's a good thing. I turn in about 500 BoD's a week, give or take, depending on my homework load and how many Mel runs are going on (over 3000+ Mel runs and 1 crimson, my fiance has as many and still has never gotten a crimson).

So, if you can only turn in 1 every 10 seconds, then you can only get one back every 10 seconds. Therefor, it slows down the flow.

And honestly, I think there are more people scripting than you realize.

 

[Guest]

Many of you are missing the point here when it comes to a scripter operation and dont fully understand the zero impact of this delay for scripters.

I do not know how scripts run but in this thread I have read that there are run arounds on the delay timer by certain script funtions. If this is true then the timer does not effect scripters--it only effects non scripters. But people that know scripts would have to post more about this.

But from what I know of doing bods there are four functions that have to be done in order to work bods.

1) get bod
2) fill bod
3) turn bod in
4) request new bod

Now in regards to #1. This means you are taking a BOD out of a book or a pack, then filling the bod, then turning it in, then getting a new bod. Now if you are doing this in this order the delay timer does not effect an honest player nor a scripter. The delay timer is null.

However if you fill bods as follows:

Take all bods for skullcap and sort out, craft skullcaps--or buy skullcaps from NPC, then fill the bods, then turn them in and request a new bod. Now in this case someone may fill 100 skullcap bods then go to a tailor and turn them in. In this case the timer hurts everyone. But remember if the timer is able to be bypassed as mentioned above only the honest player is effected.

Now some of you say move the bods and sort them after you get a new bod. Well then what? Are you going to carry all kinds of books with you to sort them in, ie: spined-horned-barber-small-large or whatever? Or do you do as I did you dump them all in one book then sort them later so you carry less items.

When I did bods I did 100 skullcaps, made all the items and filled the bods, then turned in the 100 and asked for a new bod as I went. I would drop a bod-request a new bod-drop a bod and repeat-repeat. This timer would effect me.

However I know from UOA that you can put a pause into a macro. I am sure you can with scripts. UOA wont do bod turn ins. But a scripter will simply do this.
Drop bod
request bod
pause 1-10
repeat

They dont have to stand there, they have another script running filling bods and ones running turning them in. I would dare say these scripters may have several machines doing it--as pointed out in a thread about certain vendor shops on several shards. Now meanwhile they may even be attended for an operation like that or they could be at a bar having drinks while the scripts run.

Now if people cant see where the only negative impact of this is against honest players you are just stubborn, close minded and hard headed.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

"The issue is that since we *don't* have a script to do the things for us, we have to do it how it is comfortable for us and our mind...and for me and others doing action A B C A B C A B C A B C A B C A B C is disruptive, we like to do things like A A A A A A A A then B B B B B B B B then C C C C C C C C. Hope that makes sense."

This just sounds to me like a refusal to change a routine simply because it's routine, even though making the change would make it so the delay didn't affect the overall time spent working Bods, just the order the routine is done in. This makes no sense.

In short, it's refusing to change for the sake of change.

I'm sure there's an old adage for that somewhere...

[/ QUOTE ]

Connor instead of refusing to have an open mind how about following your own advice at look at it from a different standpoint rather than the fan boy view?

 

[Guest]

"Now if people cant see where the only negative impact of this is against honest players you are just stubborn, close minded and hard headed."

Well said Dennar

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

<blockquote><hr>

Now if people cant see where the only negative impact of this is against honest players you are just stubborn, close minded and hard headed.

[/ QUOTE ]
false

<blockquote><hr>

When I did bods I did 100 skullcaps, made all the items and filled the bods, then turned in the 100 and asked for a new bod as I went. I would drop a bod-request a new bod-drop a bod and repeat-repeat. This timer would effect me.

[/ QUOTE ]
yes... if you insisted on NOT going out of your way to adapt to the timer ... yeah ... gonna affect you to "stay with" that method ...
IF you were to make your 100 ... fill one, drop one, request one ...

not so much ... and
Assuming that the scritter HAS the bods already filled ...effects them equally if not more ... the timer is there(should be)
and IF they don't want the offered bod ...STILL have to wait for the timer to cycle

ooo! another "idea" ...(from above) canceling/refusing an offered bod ... say 5 times in 10 minutes ...you can wait an Hour ... between cycles for the rest of the day.

<blockquote><hr>

But from what I know of doing bods there are four functions that have to be done in order to work bods.

1) get bod
2) fill bod
3) turn bod in
4) request new bod

[/ QUOTE ]

"Supposedly" scritters are doing:
1) get bod, on multiple chars/accounts
1.5) sort/select bods for filling
2) fill bod/ with multiple accounts that have been farming the resources to fill iron/cloth/leather (lowend) bods
2.5)assemble "the package" and deliver to Highend (likely legendary) Character ... to GET the best chance at the best bods
3) turn bod in, drop trash on npc, gp drops in bank, since rewards per bod are Known(1.5 above) check timer for when to "clean bank"
4) request new bod
4.0) reveiw and decide IF offered bod worth accepting
4.1) if bod=good-accept, drop in book, next #3
4.2) if bod=bad-cancel, next #3

3-4 is where the timer HAS an effect ..."the cycle"
3-4 is where ... without a timer ...the scritters have the greatest advantage .... they aren't after replacement bods ... the mid ranges ...
JUST the targeted known "choice" bods.

A ten second delay ... would hold them to (checks math again: 60x60x24=86400/10 = 8,640) maximum possible bodsREQUESTS a day
A five second delay , would naturally allow for double that to 17,280 maximum possible bodsREQUESTS a day
A two second delay, (check my math) 43,200 maximum possible bodsREQUESTS a day
IF the scripts are faster than 1 second cycles ... well... why bother? missing the point:
the timer affects the scritters ... MORE than it affects legit players

and

legit players are compensated with (for minor adjustments to THEIR "process") "Better" chances at "Better" bods dropping FOR "better" Runics and Kits.

To "maintain" their volume, scritters have to open 4 additional accounts at 5 second delay, 9 accounts at 10 ...WITHOUT raising their price ... for an exact same "best" reward val runic/barbed kit ...
that is worth less::BECAUSE all the other runics and kits are better now ... than before ...

NOW ...
what were you saying about

stubborn, close minded and hard headed
???

 

[Connor_Graham]

This just posted:

[19:05] &lt;Sprite&gt; &lt;Connor&gt; Will the 10 second delay for Bod turn in's stay as is?
[19:05] &lt;Draconi&gt; No, Wilki had already planned to have it reduced to 5, and it'll be changed in the next publish. Also, the system itself is being evaluated.

 

[Sergul'zan_SP]

A 5 second delay is reasonable. It takes more 2 or 3 to move it from your pack to the vendor...unless of course you're using a script.

 

[imported_mr.blackmage]

It takes you 3 seconds to move something from your backpack to someone 1/2 an inch away on your screen..? Am I missing something?

And Fayhled, Connor, it is 100% true that most humans are better at 11122223333 than going 1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3. Sure, with practice most people can do both just fine, but most people have gone through their life with their set routine, and what they do in game comes from that. I don't think that people should be expected to change their entire way of doing things for a change that doesn't accomplish what it was designed for.

An example I have for you is that I do data entry for the banking field, and if I have 1000 cheques to process, I get in a rhythm where I am doing around 25,000 keystrokes/hour (with two images on my screen at a time). I then move to a different department where the program only allows me to key 1 image at a time, and that changes from amounts, to micr lines, to client id's, etc. Yes, I do eventually get into a rhythm, but that's a result of a year of performing this task, and it still takes me a few minutes to get used to it, and I will never be as fast as I am in the other field. It's just the way it is for some people. Just because YOU don't do this, doesn't mean that everyone should have to do it your way.

*shrugs*

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>


<blockquote><hr>

Now if people cant see where the only negative impact of this is against honest players you are just stubborn, close minded and hard headed.

[/ QUOTE ]
false

<blockquote><hr>

When I did bods I did 100 skullcaps, made all the items and filled the bods, then turned in the 100 and asked for a new bod as I went. I would drop a bod-request a new bod-drop a bod and repeat-repeat. This timer would effect me.

[/ QUOTE ]
yes... if you insisted on NOT going out of your way to adapt to the timer ... yeah ... gonna affect you to "stay with" that method ...
IF you were to make your 100 ... fill one, drop one, request one ...

not so much ... and
Assuming that the scritter HAS the bods already filled ...effects them equally if not more ... the timer is there(should be)
and IF they don't want the offered bod ...STILL have to wait for the timer to cycle

ooo! another "idea" ...(from above) canceling/refusing an offered bod ... say 5 times in 10 minutes ...you can wait an Hour ... between cycles for the rest of the day.

<blockquote><hr>

But from what I know of doing bods there are four functions that have to be done in order to work bods.

1) get bod
2) fill bod
3) turn bod in
4) request new bod

[/ QUOTE ]

"Supposedly" scritters are doing:
1) get bod, on multiple chars/accounts
1.5) sort/select bods for filling
2) fill bod/ with multiple accounts that have been farming the resources to fill iron/cloth/leather (lowend) bods
2.5)assemble "the package" and deliver to Highend (likely legendary) Character ... to GET the best chance at the best bods
3) turn bod in, drop trash on npc, gp drops in bank, since rewards per bod are Known(1.5 above) check timer for when to "clean bank"
4) request new bod
4.0) reveiw and decide IF offered bod worth accepting
4.1) if bod=good-accept, drop in book, next #3
4.2) if bod=bad-cancel, next #3

3-4 is where the timer HAS an effect ..."the cycle"
3-4 is where ... without a timer ...the scritters have the greatest advantage .... they aren't after replacement bods ... the mid ranges ...
JUST the targeted known "choice" bods.

A ten second delay ... would hold them to (checks math again: 60x60x24=86400/10 = 8,640) maximum possible bodsREQUESTS a day
A five second delay , would naturally allow for double that to 17,280 maximum possible bodsREQUESTS a day
A two second delay, (check my math) 43,200 maximum possible bodsREQUESTS a day
IF the scripts are faster than 1 second cycles ... well... why bother? missing the point:
the timer affects the scritters ... MORE than it affects legit players

and

legit players are compensated with (for minor adjustments to THEIR "process") "Better" chances at "Better" bods dropping FOR "better" Runics and Kits.

To "maintain" their volume, scritters have to open 4 additional accounts at 5 second delay, 9 accounts at 10 ...WITHOUT raising their price ... for an exact same "best" reward val runic/barbed kit ...
that is worth less::BECAUSE all the other runics and kits are better now ... than before ...

NOW ...
what were you saying about

stubborn, close minded and hard headed
???

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you even read any of the posters that know how scripts work?

Several in this thread have pointed out a script can bypass the timer.

Do you know something they don't? I have no idea how scripts work, so I rely on the several who have posted that a script can bypass the timer. If they are correct-then I am correct that only the honest player is effected.

So I ask you--do you know for a fact that a script can not bypass the timer? If you do not then please don't try to pass on that this change only hurts honest players.

 

[LAH Architect]

Heya Dennar, think of it this way :

If a script can bypass the timers, then it will be doing something EXTRAORDINARY.

It makes it easy for the devs / GMs to track down and proof without a doubt that an account was cheating. Heck.. the NPC barking out 'Thank you for filling BOD' messages every 1 to 2 seconds by a turn-in script will give them away to people standing nearby.

Sometimes a change in the system can be implemented to help differentiate cheaters and hardcore players.

 

[Guest]

I am not up on scripts either. Just wondering though. Perhaps the delay has a purpose. I have read that the delay will be shortened to 5 seconds. Is it too much to ask that we trust the developers? Maybe they do not want to disclose the reason for the delay at this time.

 

[Guest]

Ok I can buy that as an explanation of a possible goal, but that also assumes a GM will respond to a page. That is something else to discuss and test then. Who is to say someone or some people are not invis all around the same NPC? What if no GM responds?

But as far as the timer goes I still stand believing the post that people can bypass it.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

But as far as the timer goes I still stand believing the post that people can bypass it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Indeed. Scripters will find a way. Give the devs the tools they need to detect them. At least they may catch the lazy ones.

 

[Sergul'zan_SP]

If they're seriously going to attack scripters, they'll be implementing measures to protect the client memory space.

 

[HD2300]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

But as far as the timer goes I still stand believing the post that people can bypass it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Indeed. Scripters will find a way. Give the devs the tools they need to detect them. At least they may catch the lazy ones.

[/ QUOTE ]

The scripts will just fill out the bod in the 5 sec delay interval, so instead of AAAAA [fill out bods] first then BBBBBB [give bod to npc], it will be ABABABABAB.

I posted before --
To stop 99.99% of scripting BODs and a lot of other scripting, force a patch every day, or tag BODs received by 0.1 tailors and trial accounts, and make them only return cloth bods.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

Nothing I can do to guide your choice on who or what to "believe in" DENNAR ...

You want to believe and trust in the unnsupported and illogical concept that they "can" bypass the timer ...
without adding MORE bod claimers ... to COMPENSATE for the timer ...
fine ... go ahead ... nothing I can do about that ...

You want to believe and trust in the unnsupported and illogical concept that they "can" bypass the timer ...
that is very likely a server side timer, nested in with the "bod to offer selection process" ...
just as well go deeper down that rabbit hole ...
And assume that they can see the bod to be offered
and
are manipulating the npc to give ONLY the best bods per junk deed ...


Sorry, I shall not be joining you on THAT little journey ... no possible benefit discernable down there ...
Let me know how it turns out.

<blockquote><hr>

Do you know something they don't? I have no idea how scripts work, so I rely on the several who have posted that a script can bypass the timer. If they are correct-then I am correct that only the honest player is effected.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know that it is not likely that the "timer" ... the existing one and the one coming (five seconds ... As I surmised earlier in the thread)
(and btw ... how I got to the conclusion that 5 seconds was acceptable and "unbothersome" to legit players) ... where was I ? ... Oh!
it is not likely that the "timer" exists on the client side ...IF it did ...AND it is possible to exploit/bypass it ... it is ongoing NOW ...
and the already doubtful surmise (earlier in the thread) that they (scritter scum) were NOT turning in bods at even 8000 bods a day ...

is definately FALSE ...IF the timer was avoidable, now, the only thing limiting junk bod turnins is the Supply side of filled junk bods ...

Anyone wanna state that there is a limited quantity OF THOSE ?

Besides ... how about asking my direct question ? ^^There ... at the end of my post ...
NOW ...
what were you saying about

stubborn, close minded and hard headed
???

 

[Guest]

Why would they even need to bypass the timers?

Even before they still needed to fill out the bods, combine then, store them, deal with the rewards, etc.

All they'd have to do is to put some of those tasks inbetween the delays and viola, they have totally normal operation.

Its also really silly to bring up the 30K mark that Jeremy did...so a scripter with ONE account can not only have a bod, fill it out (craft it all, the put it in BOD), turn it in, select a new one, dismiss/take it and deal with reward ALL IN THE SPAN OF 3 SECONDS.

Not even the fastests script on the fastest machine can do this, they couldn't even do this in 5 seconds, which is why THE LIMIT IS MEANINGLESS FOR SCRIPTERS.

If anyone turned in 30K in a single day its because the bods are either being filled out by another account or filled out at another time (where they still would have to get them anyway) and in that case all they'd have to do is use both accounts as described above and AGAIN the limit becomes totally limitless.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

Huh?

<blockquote><hr>

Its also really silly to bring up the 30K mark that Jeremy did...so a scripter with ONE account can not only have a bod, fill it out (craft it all, the put it in BOD), turn it in, select a new one, dismiss/take it and deal with reward ALL IN THE SPAN OF 3 SECONDS.

Not even the fastests script on the fastest machine can do this, they couldn't even do this in 5 seconds, which is why THE LIMIT IS MEANINGLESS FOR SCRIPTERS.

[/ QUOTE ]

You never heard about the Multi account bod GATHERING scripts ? ... The ones where each account logged in and out each character JUST to collect the bods?
Or the "rails" that just chugged along (likely &gt;at the time&lt; with a BoS or recall to house setup) mining whatever in Bulk ... "I" never figured out how they were "doing" leather or cloth bulk generation ... BUT y'all keep assuring everyone with eyes that they can and do ...
Resources was not what was addressed ... by the timer ... It was and is &gt;Turnin&lt; of filled bods.

Filling the bods, was ALSO not what was addressed ... by the timer ... It was and is &gt;Turnin&lt; of filled bods.
Do I think they were filling each and every bod that was gotten by the low skill claimers? no
I think, with the mass quantities of low end bods and resources, smith for example 10-15 count normal iron bods, were filled and stored in a book ...
and then THAT book was staged with a legendary character ... to CLAIM with ... ie ... no "filling" of received bods required ...
because at THIS point ... is where the timer DOES come into play ...

MORE Against the scritter ..... not so much, some, but Not so much a legit player ...
rovpilotusn, for example (above) ... had 500 bods to turnin ... took him (by his estimate) Over 3 hours WITHOUT a timer in play
check the math above (up thread) ... whatever his "method" WAS ...without a timer in place ... it Wasn't a "max efficiency" template ...
If it was ... with a 10 second delay (500bods x 10 seconds each = 5000 seconds = 1 hour 23 min 20 sec)

"He" had only 500 bods to turnin ... &gt;without a timer&lt; and it took over 3 hours ...(unknown how Long it took to accumulate those)
The "timer", as I anticipated (up thread) IS gonna be 5 seconds ... For "Him" (500bods x 5 seconds each = 2500 seconds = 41min 40 sec)

Math wise, HIS case/example, plenty of room for improvement ...of his "none maximised template" ... process, proceedure, rythym ... to GET TO a 5 second turn in delay being a real arguable "factor"

The Scritter ... on the other hand ...the one with the unfair advantage of multi accounts/characters and maximum TIME resources ...
to create filled junk bods for turn in WAS already at ...maximum farming capacity ... whether or not it was being used ... doesn't matter ... the assumption was that IT WAS being hit... consistantly, robotically, with out intervention ... now ... WITH a timer in place ...
THAT assumption can be "mitigated" ... affected ...per turnin account
WITH a timer in place ......per turnin account MAX is 17280 deeds cycled per day ...
could be ... with a 10 second timer ... per turnin account 8640 deeds cycled per day ...

^^Thats where the timer affects the scritters the most ... it creates a "ceiling" ... "cap" per turnin account of deeds cycled per day ...
It does NOT address how many deeds claimed, nor resources farmed, nor time to fill a sorted group of deeds to turnin ...

Legit players never were near those numbers ... some, complained about THOSE numbers being available to the scritters (the LARGER numbers, the ones without a delay in place) ... because it seemed that the scritters were generating a porportional result of: non-duped barbed kits ... non-duped verite and val runics ...
"if those vast quantities are not dupes... they must BE scritter produced ... DO SOMETHING !!!1!!one!1eleven" ...

Heeerrres something !

a 5 second delay ...by my math, a 10 second would be better ...but "everyone" says 5 ... so 5 will do ...

and can BE improved ... make sure it is not only a "hard" 5 second delay ...( 5 seconds between offers, regardless of accept or cancel OF offer)
ADD a "penalty" for canceling x offers in x minutes (say 5 cancels in 10 minutes{open to negotiation}) triggers a "picky penalty" ... resulting in setting a 1 hour delay for the remaining/next 24 hours.

A minor improvement, sure, but it would FORCE the scritter to deal with "the extra" junk bods ... can't just drop it on the npc for disposal, dropping it on the ground ... err Stacking around their "claimer" ...

kinda a signal flare for the vigilantees ...

Yep ... easily "avoidable" by carrying off to a trash can every cycle ... dropping in mongbat corpse ...still
just one more minor inconvenience ... to eat into their "time" advantage ...

Legit players ... no problem taking every bod offered ... likely they do
Scritter scum, with BulkResourcesOfJunkBods, Likely were "farming" for JUST the cherry bods, the ones with "the best rewards" ... they could AFFORD to cancel a bod whose KNOWN reward was a garg pick, prospector tool, +5+10+15+20 skill scroll ...&lt;&lt; those ...were NOT likely what they were looking for ... and were NOT "good candidates" for expending time and resources on, in filling, to turn in, for a chance at: "the cherry bods" ...

To maintain the old no timer VOLUME of bods cycled ...the "source or production of which was NOT addressed/lessened" ....would need to start up 4 more legendary turners (whatever, just looking at the turnin offer to gm+ skill as a factor for the deed offered) ... still ... that IS what the timer addresses ...scritter volume potential ...

The scritter scums volume potential, per Turn in Account, OF filled bods, under a 5 second claim delay, IS 1/5th, of what it was.
To compensate, the scritter scum "could" start up 4 more turnin accounts, to maintain their current potential ...
but
to maintain their "profit potential" per high end reward .... do you think its likely for them to raise their Prices ?

I don't
More likely they'll KEEP their current setup and modify to account for the mid range rewards being "improved" ...not likely that they'll just flat out quit and move on ...
sweet as that would be ... just recognizing a possible potential for adaptation ...
The "problem" for them is gonna be finding a "new mix" that KEEPS them at their current profit levels ... possible... just not very likely at the moment ...

Not to mention the most recent development ... A righteously endowed and motivated weilder of Black rock powered flame thrower/s


(to the forum/net at large)

G'head scritter scum ... continue to turn out mass quantities of what the hell ever ...
Create a "target rich environment" for the CS Dev GM group ... I triple dog dare ya ! ... your "feeling lucky ... aren't cha?" come on!
Make this the YEAR of the flame thrower, Make My Year


time will tell