Can anyone think of 1 good reason to have a 5 or 10 sec delay between bod turn-ins?

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Well, maybe you're doing it the slow way described by others, I described the fast way.

[/ QUOTE ]Not for long

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

<blockquote><hr>

I don't buy BODs, I have a whole 18x18 full with nothing but BOD books that we've collected ourselves.

[/ QUOTE ]

oh! Cool!

We gots a amply endowed player that can "run a test" ...

100 filled bods should suffice ...
Tailor OR Smith ...

arrange a met up ... a new char will suffice as "Timer \ Judge"
Empty backpack (verifiable by mouse over)
Full (100 count) bod book
"Timer \ Judge" (basara nominated ... seconded ? Kiminality as a witness? whole group there cheering? go go go ...??)
Ready ...
Begin ! ...

tick tick tick
Done! Time? ...Xmin, X sec ...

easy ...

100 bods @ 10 seconds per = 1000 seconds (16 minutes and 40 seconds change) &lt;&lt; gross time to beat.

Beauty ...

 

[Guest]

Uhm, Fayled. You do know that the issue is when you don't have them in a book, I always take a quantity of BODs out into the pack first (in a corner), then turn them in, then put the rewards/new bods away afterwards.

 

[Guest]

...

So stick with that and accept a 5 second delay or adjust your new pattern to smoothly incorporate said delay. Either way, the same result will occur.

10 seconds was too much, noone can dispute that. 5 seconds will be fine, it will have little effect on the manual player and inhibit the scriptor to a reasonable degree.

At first I wasn't sure about it, but as I spent some time working with and turning in tailoring deeds, I found it to simply not be an issue.

The difference in the systems is instead of waiting until you fill up to dump off rewards, simply move the rewards as you get them which will add a second or two to your timing which will in effect lessen the effect of the timer.

As a BOD player, the 5 second delay doesn't bother me... that's still 12 per minute or 720 an hour, or 16k per day.

Per Jeremy:5 would be more bearable, this is one change that does disproportionately affect scripters. We're talking about people turning in 30k BODs a day- 5 seconds per hits them pretty hard

This change will effectively HALVE the amount a scriptor can turn in (assuming that she has documentation of 30k+ a day happening) while not even significantly affecting the normal player turning in 100 - 500.

As you admit you have to take the time to shuffle rewards and deeds around, so in essence you are already having a delay, you're just placing it in a different location in your actions (the delay by not turning in while shuffling items).

By adjusting that one thing, the imposed delay will be a non-issue.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

<blockquote><hr>

Uhm, Fayled. You do know that the issue is when you don't have them in a book, I always take a quantity of BODs out into the pack first (in a corner), then turn them in, then put the rewards/new bods away afterwards.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, yes I do ...
Theres a rough first draft "scenario" ...

show up with a verifiable count (100)
get the count verified (by the timer \ judge)
timer \ judge calls "Ready"
(added) you get ready, respond: "Ready"
timer \ judge calls "Begin !"

tick tick tick
You call: "Done"!
the timer \ judge \ witness? call the Time ... Xmin, X sec ...

100 bods @ 10 seconds per = 1000 seconds (16 minutes and 40 seconds change) &lt;&lt; gross time to beat.

Simple ... modifiable ... verifiable ... clear in the open fair ...

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

Your reasoning is deeply flawed, but you refuse to see it.

[/ QUOTE ]Could say the same thing about you.

[/ QUOTE ]Yes, because analysing the situation mathematically, taking into account the whole system is so much more flawed than an interpretation based on non-objective observations.

 

[imported_concernedplayer]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

Okay, perhaps a silly suggestion - but what abput an incremental timer for turning in BODs? So the more you turn in in a given timeframe, the longer the wait between each turn in? Wouldn't overly hurt the average player, not as much as a set wait, but would increasingly hurt the scripters who turn in 100+ at a time...

Say a second for the first ten, then two for the next ten, etc.

Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely BRILLIANT.
I am serious.
You deserve a castle.

BOD
first 25 1 sec
2nd 25 3 sec
3rd 25 6 seconds
4th 25 12 seconds
5th 25 24 seconds
6th 25 48 seconds
7th 25 and thereafter 1 minute.

CAN A DEV COMMENT ON THEIR IDEA. This is brilliant.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this alot, great idea.

 

[imported_concernedplayer]

If anyone is interested, so far I count 23 people so far who say bad idea, and 16 that say its a good idea.

Alot of people who think its a bad idea are surprised, they haven't heard of this before today and think it was something just came up with. Those people who just heard of it, do you realize they are giving barbed kits a 10% boost over what they are now? Or that they're giving horned kits and spined kits (in my opinion) a million times boost over what they are now? ... because right now spined and horned kits are virtually worthless and after the patch they'll actually be useful. They're giving MAX intensities on them, making <u>horned</u> kits with 5% boost over what <u>barbed</u> kits are right now! Spined kits getting the same intensity boost, all the way up to 100% intensity (albeit on only a couple mods). Thats right, its feasible to make a 20% lower reagent, 8LMC piece with a SPINED KIT that has 45 charges!

They're making the rewards a millions of times more valuable. Making people wait 10 seconds on a turnin is a very small concession. Especially when the rewards are so much more valuable.

Scripters can fill their smalls in secret, pumping out thousands with virtually nobody around to inspect them. They can collect their bods in secret, one time I reported a scripting operation logging in with hidden chars, logging in hundred of .1 skill tailors over 40,000 times a day! Filling bods aren't the weak link in their chain. Collecting bods aren't the weak link in the chain ...

Their high risk portion of their operation is turning the kits in. Making this take 5 times longer means they will have to buy 5 times more computers, and 5 times more turn-in accounts, to accomplish the same thing. The visibility of their operation then becomes 5 times larger ... make that 10 times larger because NPCs are barking at them as they turn every one in. They won't run as many if they think they're going to be spotted while scripting afk. This doesn't hurt legitimate players at all, who are there and can respond when someone talks to them.

Lots of people complained about the bag of sending changes. In reality, billions of gold every DAY was entered into the economy, hundreds of scripted accounts running 24/7 with huge influx of gold into the economy. In the end they kept the changes, and I'm glad they did that, same as I'm glad they're limiting bods as well.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

first 25 1 sec = 25 seconds
2nd 25 3 sec = 75 seconds
3rd 25 6 seconds = 150 seconds
4th 25 12 seconds = 300 seconds ... 550 seconds first 100
5th 25 24 seconds = 600 seconds
6th 25 48 seconds = 1200 seconds
7th 25 and thereafter 1 minute. = 1500 seconds
8th 25 and thereafter 1 minute. = 1500 seconds ... 5350 seconds second 100

yeah ... would impact the "Volume scritters" ... thing is:
not much

acceptance for 2000 seconds at the flat rate 10 second per (for 200 bods) ...
*shrugs*

worth a look

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

@ Lord Chaos
100 bods in a book = 21(bods+book) items/1 stone in backpack ...
Whats the "hesitation?"
16min40seconds, by your statements ... should be EASILY beatable

Dermott of LS ; NMA :
As a BOD player, the 5 second delay doesn't bother me... that's still 12 per minute ...
~~ 8 minutes for 100

Basara
I am YET to break the 12 BOD per minute barrier CONSISTANTLY ...
call it 10 per minute?
100 = ~~ 10 minutes

100 bods NOW ... without a timer ... production shard ...
16min40seconds, by your statements ... should be EASILY beatable
Whats the "hesitation?"

*shrugs*
meh!

concernedplayer seems to be catching onto the "big picture" ...

ie. FOR THE GAME (in general, over all) the increases to the REWARDS (hammers/kits) ... quite well worth a little "cost"
in &gt;player&lt; time&amp;likelyhood to acquire "good bods" from "junk bods"
At GM 60% ... Elder 80% ... Legendary 90%

Sure ... acceptance of the "cost" ...will always run contrary to individual "instant gratification" Uhall perceptions

Tis my burden ..

sure ...scritter scum will not be destroyed

turning INTO scritter scum = they continue winning + scritter scum will not be destroyed

on the other hand:

More &gt;players&lt; returning to the bod system ...

More &gt;players&lt; producing trading Legit low, middle, high end bods ...

More &gt;players&lt; = more "product" = more "dilution" of the scritter scum strangle hold on the Economy ...

 

[imported_Leto]

<blockquote><hr>

Your math is myopic. It doesn't matter in the slightest to a script how many you can turn in during one minute. It matters whether you can turn in all the bods that you fill in one day. Thus if you have 2000 bods to turn in it will now take 20,000 seconds aka about five and a half hours. What does a script care if it takes five hours or 30 minutes? Anyone running a script to turn in bods will see zero impact as long as they have less than 8000 bods or so per day. If there are those turning in more than that, which I doubt, simply need to use another account to turn them in.

This will have absolutely zero impact on a script. Meanwhile the person turning in fifty has to stare at the screen and count to ten before clicking again. It's senseless.

[/ QUOTE ]This is hitting the nail right on the head! Good post.

 

[Guest]

Okay, so the incremental BOD timer was thrown out in a fit of beer a couple of nights ago, but upon reflection, it's not the key issue. It's the timer that's the key potential problem however...

As LC said, one of the fastest ways of turning in BODs (non-scripting) is to stack them all in one corner of a pack, and then drag/drop onto the NPC, select new BOD, accept. Time has tought me to do that in under two/three seconds. It's fast, and the only slow-down is when the pack is too full of BOD rewards. I'm by no means a pure-BOD hoarder, but I've done them since they arrived in UO. A 10 second cap will just prove to be a pain in the proverbial arse, period. Personally, I'd rather do an hour of BOD filling (by hand, never used UO-A), and then turn them all in. Problem is, any method that affects single character turn-in ain't particularly going to stop scripters. One of the major questions seems to be which is faster - waiting for the potential 10s delay, or switching accounts...Hmm.

Arguing about whether a hard cap is a good or bad idea isn't really going to get us anywhere, and the furore back in November when Wilki initially brought up the idea was not dissimilar to this now. An incremental delay might work, but it's a lot of tech behind the scenes - you can imagine that there could be different levels of delay depending on other factors (skill, BOD type, etc.). Who is to say that any of this is right or wrong, and then who's going to argue with it? (Everyone else, I'll wager).

Stopping scripters is the main issue, and perhaps that's where some of the focus needs to be. Revealed when handing in a BOD, or when receiving a new BOD? Hard/soft/incremental caps? Stats for BOD turn-ins per NPC in a given area to track trends? Logging? It all adds up to a lot of ballpark ideas to be smacked about ad nauseam.

As someone else mentioned, the best measure is the one that affects the innocent player the least. Perhaps it's just a return to one BOD every 360 mins, without exception?

I'd like to hear some constructive criticism, rather than flame filled arguments - but, after all, this is U.Hall

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

Fair enough ... at the moment ...I'm guessing that "what it will be" IS a 5second timer (scroll up thread as to why ...)

Just finished a round training my new smith ... 96.9
Just after the mag invasion ... boosted my Tailor to elder
carpenter (in a race with the smith) 99.1 ...

Point is ... in SPITE of scritter scum NOT being gone ...
I've been willing to Prepare a crafting group ... to TRY OUT
getting and dealing with the rewards ...

others maybe (silently) also preparing.

I have not "given up" on defeating the scritter scum ... Nor am I going to use ANY time delay as an excuse/reason ...
for going over to the other side ...

I'm willing to accept a small (come on, in comparision to 360minutes per, as in the old days ... 10 seconds per IS SMALL

)
(especially considering the BUFF that the rewards and :"Wilki's #5 The chances of getting a valorite BOD (once you've passed the colored BOD test), have been raised substantially."
and patch to Test:"Increased chance of receiving a Valorite BOD")
I'm willing to accept a small bit of inconvenience for ANY appreciable impact on the scritters.

Specially when it looks pretty good FOR me... a legit "casual player"

Contrast that ...
With This:
<blockquote><hr>

The REST of the changes:

[/ QUOTE ]
Which is a nice wonderful cake, with a big poop ontop of it...the rest of the cake might be really yummy, but the poop (the timer) ruins it.
*shrugs* Maybe I should just give in and use a script as others on my shard are talking about doing, that would solve all the problems and I would never ever have to worry about the timer again *tempting*

Hummm discernable difference?

 

[Guest]

Now Fayled, if you gave in and used a script, I don't think you would ever forgive yourself...

- I certainly wouldn't - even UOA seems like cheating in an approved way!

Through normal gameplay, the best I've got in over 5 years of BODding is a verite hammer. If there's a decent chance I can make my crafter needful again (apart from using the odd BRK and performing repairs) I'm all for it.

*Hears a vague echo*

"What's that? You'd like me to make you a set of armour?"
...
"Of course!"

*Wakes up*

Oh wait...

 

[Surgeries]

<blockquote><hr>

Could say the same thing about you.


[/ QUOTE ]

The lack of anything substantial in your posts, in rebutting an argument, sometimes, simply amazes me.


I know I know...you could say the same thing about me.

LOL.

Great comeback.

HEY! Here's an idea...

Give Examples!!! Show your logic!!

Naw...what was I thinkin...just tell em:

"I know you are..but what am I??"

LOL.

That'll show em...yep yep...

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

By adjusting that one thing, the imposed delay will be a non-issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like to do one thing for a while then another, makes it way easier to concentrate. going A B A B A B A B is very annoying, I prefer to do A A A A A A then B B B B B B.

<blockquote><hr>

This change will effectively HALVE the amount a scriptor can turn in (assuming that she has documentation of 30k+ a day happening)

[/ QUOTE ]

1. If she does have documentation of 30K happening, here's a novel idea to effectively NULLIFY the amount the scripter turns in. BAN THEM. 0 scripted BODs is better than 17.280 scripted BODs per day.

But I seriously doubt 30K BODs per day is happening, crafting, doing the rewards, shuffling the good rewards around, etc. takes much to much time for anyone to do that many consistantly.

 

[Guest]

I've shown plenty of logic and real examples. You just overlook them in your attempt to troll.

Sorry.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

@ Lord Chaos
100 bods in a book = 21(bods+book) items/1 stone in backpack ...
Whats the "hesitation?"
16min40seconds, by your statements ... should be EASILY beatable

[/ QUOTE ]

Your setup is flawed though, but yes, I'd be able to beat the time my way.

 

[Al Thorin]

<blockquote><hr>

As Above ... it CERTAINLY has more than "Zero Impact" on their scrittering ways ...
AND minimal impact on Legit players ... pretty "balanced" in the legit players FAVOR ...

[/ QUOTE ]
Really? So a BOD, at BEST can be filled in... 20 seconds or so? 1 second per item to make, and is there a delay in filling a BOD? Of not, say 12 seconds to make and fill a BOD.

That's 3-6 BOD's filled a minute.

A 10 second timer affects their turn in -how-?
Any single account BOD scripter only did at -most- 8k BOD's -regardless-.
Any Single account BOD scripter can adjust to make the items at the shop (So a reduction in speed from recaling, which I bet can be done in ~10 seconds), and craft durring the delay.
AKA Zero impact.
Any multi account scripter would probably have several doing BOD's, and 1 turning in, so they add a couple, if that. For a single scripter to do the MAX BOD's on a given char, they would have had to have ~15 tailors running at the same time, just to make up for the crafting delay.
You think anything -that- large would be slowed? Just add more accounts. What's another 5 or 6?

Alot of you really miss the point of a scripter that runs scripts all day. It's to optimize gains in UO. A 10 second delay is easily adjustable in a script. There's two parts, crafting and turning in, the crafting -already- took at -least- 10 seconds. So -where- exactly is the delay?

Many players fill a bunch of BOD's then turn them in. They get hit by the 10 second delay on TOP of normal play. If a player wants to do the Best speed, they have to setup for crafting at the shop. An inconvience if they actually play their char, and do other things like mining or what not.

A scripters char can be setup and left to be able to craft in a shop, with very quick trips to the bank. It's a char made to do -1- thing only. they can configure it to -easily- work around a 10 second delay, and maybe loose ~100 BOD's a day, if that.

<blockquote><hr>

As for yourself ...

HERE you state pretty clearly why I need not consider your opinion "On This Matter" any further:
QFT

Thanks for clearing that up for me ...

[/ QUOTE ]
That is just fine by me. By all means, don't take opinions from people who know more about the system than you. Sorry, but 'On This Matter' you are simply uneducated, you need not consider anything beyond that.

 

[Kat SP]

Typical EA solution. Instead of punishing those who break the rules, they punish those who play by the rules. Instead we get spammed with delay messages, cohesion nonsense and a "you must wait" message for just about every damned thing in this game. I have spoken out against cheating in it's many forms, on more occasions than I can count, but it's no wonder people use scripts for the tedious bs in this game. Who in their right mind would want to endure that?

Thanks a lot for encouraging scripting, instead of punishing those who break the rules. /sarcasm

 

[Guest]

* Ditto Kat SP *
As Always the Honest &amp; Occasional (limited time) player in UO gets the Short Straw every time, all this caused just because EA has done nothing to known people who have been running scripts 24/7 (or close to it) for yrs. Sure they take out a couple here &amp; there, but there are hundreds across the shards &amp; most are a select few that do all the shards. Want to combat Scripting..... Just watch Account usage &amp; what that chara is doing for prolonged extended periods of time.

 

[LAH Architect]

Many good points from both camps.

Let's go the conservative way and implement the 5 second changes for a month or so and see if tweaks are needed.

I'm tempted to suggest a 5 second turn-in time PLUS a hardcap of 5000 per account. It will help the devs gain lottas rl karma for helping prevent that hardcore BOD addict from spraining his/her wrist.

I am sure the majority of UO subscribers are not hardcore super-fast BOD turn-in people. For the elite clickers, just relax and take one for the ' betterment ' of the game. Some of the folks arguing agsinst this change comes across as if BODs is the lifeline of UO for them and cannot afford to make slight changes....

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

As near as we can tell, Wilki never actually documented or made the 5 second change. I believe Draconi's planning to tweak it in the next publish.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless "tweak" means remove it, you're still going in the wrong direction.

The last thing that you as a company want to do is make life MORE annoying for the honest players. UO is already full of tedious tasks...why make them even more so?

Your whole concept of dealing with scripters is flawed. How many people telling you this will it take for it to sink in? Or do folks have to vote with their wallets before you get it?

 

[Kat SP]

<blockquote><hr>

The last thing that you as a company want to do is make life MORE annoying for the honest players.

[/ QUOTE ]

A M E N!!!

 

[HD2300]

To stop 99.99% of scripting BODs and a lot of other scripting, force a patch every day

or tag BODs received by 0.1 tailors and trial accounts, and make them only return cloth bods.

 

[Connor_Graham]

"I'm tempted to suggest a 5 second turn-in time PLUS a hardcap of 5000 per account."

I'd be tempted to second that, but maybe with a lower hard cap. In order for everyone to come out ahead, there's needs to be a compromise. For those that say they can turn one in every 2 seconds, why don't you take the extra 3 seconds to sort? You're going to do it anyway, why not when you first get the Bod? This will save you time on the back end. Everyone sorts their Bods, you can't work them efficiently and not sort them.

 

[Guest]

Well MANY of youl dont take into account 1 main issue.

Sorry.This discussion lacks definitions and uses more opinion.

There are not only 2 camps. The camps being scritper or non-scritper.

The logic flaw starts there. And most of the arguements against the bod timer go against the change because we lack definitions in this debate. What one considers a scripter is not what another considers a scripter. TIME AND RESOURCES.

A scritper is someone that uses a script to turn in bods. TRUE

A bod timer will slow them down. TRUE (not stop them)
A bod timer will inhibit some scripters. MAYBE
A bod timer will slow down but not stop a scripter that runs multiple systems. MAYBE
A bod timer will slow down a scripter that only has 1 system. TRUE
A bod timer slows down turn ins but only delays the completion of 1000 bods. TRUE
It doesnt matter if it takes a scripter 5 hours or 10 hours to turn in 1000 bods. MAYBE

A non scripter is someone that doesnt use scripts to turn in bods. TRUE

The non scripter is harmed. MAYBE
The non scripter that turns in 10 bods could care less. MAYBE
The non scripter that turns in 50 bods is slowed down. TRUE
The non scripter that turns in 250 bods is penalized. MAYBE
The non scirpter that saves his/her bods and does 1000 in a day cant turn in their bods. MAYBE



You all need to come up with a definitons before you set to prove a point.

I am saying it slows scripters down.
Some say yes it slows scripters down but doesnt prevent them from their goal.
Some say it does nothing to scripters and hurts the non scripter.

Here is the scenario.

Scripter with 5 computers that works full time
Scripter with 5 computers that plays game full time
Scripter with 1 computer that works full time
Scripter with 1 computer that plays game full time
Non Scripter with 5 computers that works full time
Non Scripter with 5 computers that plays the game full time
Non Scripter with 1 computer that plays 5 hours a week
Non Scripter with 1 computer the plays 10 hours a week
Non Scripter with 1 computer that plays 20 hours a week

50 bods to turn in
100 bods to turn in
1000 bods to turn in
5000 bods to turn in

Now, while many of you argue. No one can say the timer doesnt slow down the scripter or the non-scripter. It does. The key word is slow down. SLOW DOWN. It slows them down.

I cant state that it stops either player, scripter or non scripter. It slows them down.

Based on the resoursce and time of the non scripte or scripter... They can still achieve their goals. The scripter can fill 10000 bods with 4 comps, running scripts for 24 hours. Sure. BUT IT SLOWED THEM DOWN.

Thats the point of a bod timer. End of story. Its not to stop or prevent, but slow them down.

Again define a scripter with frequency, resources and time. And then make blanket statements. Whatever you state. It has SLOWED them down.

 

[Guest]

EA JUST NEEDS TO BE BOLD.

Someone already stated an incremental timer increase.

Thats the way to go.

The timer resets the next day.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

Heh! Should not have gotten me thinking ... and .... doing math

Its been tickling the back of my mind ... hows come everyones saying:

No one IS turning in 8000 .... much less 8000+ bods ...
therefore ... a 10second pause only hurts the legit players.

Sure SOUNDS logical ... I'll grant you that ...
still ... that tickle at the back of my mind .... kept cycling for "proof"

All this talk about what scritter scum maybe ... can be doing ... 23.** 7 ...
Instead of what they are doing or how they are doing it ...
Doesn't meet MY requirements for "Proof" ... ie. remains an assumption ...

Well, good ol troll's calling me names, implying (flat out saying) that I "need to shut-up / get a clue"

Makes the "tickle" last and last ...

Ahhhhhh ...

got it ...

As was pointed out ... scritters probably run multiple accounts / characters ...
Farming bods and resources to fill the junk bods for turning to GET "good" bods ...
okay ...
^^ that just means theres likely to be NO shortage ... of "junk" bods TO turn in
yes?

Me? I'm taking every bod thats offered to me ...
Scritter ... NOT NECESSARILY ...

The "mid-range junk bods" ... ie. not uber enough a reward for filling and turning in (for example: Ringmail normals / excep iron upto agapite )

&gt;The Scritter scum ... Can Afford To Cancel the Offer ... and (now) IMMEDIATELY drop another bod... for another choice&lt;

5 seconds holds them "down to" 17280 bods a day (10 seconds, half that, 8640) ...

without the timer .. at 2 seconds 43200 "max" possible cycles FARMING FOR HIGH END BODS

Nyyaahh !

You Owe Me a Buck !

try it ... have a filled bod ready ...WAIT for the "free offer timer to reset"
ASK for a bod ...
NOTE: "the bod offered"
cancel the offer
turn in the bod
ASK for a bod ...
NOTE: "the bod offered"

I just did ... got a different bod offered ...
NPCs very very very LIKELY cycle the RNG to determine: next offer
ie. Mine DID ... gave a different bod offer in all of 2 seconds ....
(just for clarity: 1st bod was a normal 15cnt iron Tear shield ... 2nd was a 6part exceptional weapon)

Scritter scum ... probably would have "passed"(canceled) that one too !!!!!
they (curse them and their supporters) could "afford to" ...plenty of cheap-low-end bods to burn ...
FARMING FOR HIGH END BODS.


Burma Shaved

Math + Logic = 1 Most Excellent Reason to have a 5 or 10 sec delay between bod turn-ins

 

[Babble]

How about a hardcap that gets added each day you do not turn bods in?

Also not ideal, as the best solution is to catch scripters

 

[Guest]

Actually that is intersting too.
Good idea

FOR SAKE OF ARGUEMENT

100 bod turn in daily.
If you dont use them for 7 days. You get 800 turn ins on the 8th day.

Is that what you meant?

 

[Al Thorin]

<blockquote><hr>

Well, good ol troll's calling me names, implying (flat out saying) that I "need to shut-up / get a clue"

Makes the "tickle" last and last ...

[/ QUOTE ]
Spare me Fayled.
You flat out attacked people who -know- how it works. We don't need to guess or assume how it works. You seem to be of the opinion that it isn't possible that we -want- to see action, or things fixed, or scripters banished. That is fine, you can be of that opinion, it is yours to have.

But, as that post your quoted pointed out, being close minded doesn't help anyone. There's multiple views, angles and systems in play here. If you -really- believe you have a strong enough grasp on -all- of them to have a good solid and fact based opinion, then by all means.
I pointed out that you do not, you cannot, since you don't know how the other side really works or thinks.

I spent most of my time learning for fun, and education. I made a boards to log maker that runs -far- faster than a person could do by hand. It also ran ~30% faster than any other existing script. It's a matter of understanding how UO's systems work, then finding the most effecient way to perform a task.

With that practiced knowlage, I can say I -know- how it works, and I can also say I -know- the timer can be worked around with -very- little impact.
I'm not guessing, or assuming anything.

So by all means, your opinion can carry more weight cause you're 'pure', but mine is based on fact. Weigh that how you will.

That being said, I tend to agree that capping the handins would be far more effective.
I couldn't be bother with BODs cause they already took way too much time, and a handin timer just screams 'more pain'.

 

[Guest]

All this crying in this thread get old. It do not really sounds like it is the non scripters who are crying here. I think most non cripters think, "I can live with that if it will hurt the scripters, it won't really effect me"
I also think the devs get a good laugh of hearing all the crying we see here.

Maybe I'm slow but I can easy use 10 sec to
Turn in a bod
Look at the reward and trash the ones I can't use and move the valuable to a thief pro box
Claim a new bod
Look at the new bod and place it in book.

I'm sure devs had tested how long time it take to do it by hand.

Now you speak about

Non Scripter with 5 computers that works full time
Non Scripter with 5 computers that plays the game full time

How can a non scripter use 5 computers, only scripters can do that and if they should success it, they need to get a life.
I can understand 2 computers, one doing gathering and one doing chafting like alchemy but 5 computers, that's crazy.
And when do the guy sleep?

I think the new 10 sec timer are fine, else drop it to 7-8 sec.
I don't mind a hardcore daily limet too at maybe 500 bods but it have to for the account and cross the shards.

 

[Babble]

Yes, is what I meant.

 

[Guest]

I'm sure this has been said, but, it would probably take me longer than 5-10 seconds to fill out a BOD ;/...and probably at least 2 seconds to drag the next one ;D. And unless you're doing crappy bods and just tossing the cloth or whatever, if you sort the rewards out each time, that's probably 5 seconds

.

 

[Shelleybean]

Maybe the change has little or nothing to do with scriptors. Look at the bag of sending changes. Apparently that was done to hurt all of us, not just scriptors. I mean, it's not like bod gathering and filling is tedious enough, right.......?

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

All this crying in this thread get old. It do not really sounds like it is the non scripters who are crying here. I think most non cripters think, "I can live with that if it will hurt the scripters, it won't really effect me"
I also think the devs get a good laugh of hearing all the crying we see here.

Maybe I'm slow but I can easy use 10 sec to
Turn in a bod
Look at the reward and trash the ones I can't use and move the valuable to a thief pro box
Claim a new bod
Look at the new bod and place it in book.

Definitions are just for the sake, that we cant put players in only 2 categories. I know it delays both scripter and nonscripter.

Maybe the 5 comps are for the player that scripts and doesnt script. Maybe they use 1 to watch and IDOC. One to watch a boss. 2 to script boring tasks that dont hurt anyone. And 1 to play legit.

This whole thread seems polarized to me as if there are only 2 kinds of players. There arent.



I'm sure devs had tested how long time it take to do it by hand.

Now you speak about

Non Scripter with 5 computers that works full time
Non Scripter with 5 computers that plays the game full time

How can a non scripter use 5 computers, only scripters can do that and if they should success it, they need to get a life.
I can understand 2 computers, one doing gathering and one doing chafting like alchemy but 5 computers, that's crazy.
And when do the guy sleep?

I think the new 10 sec timer are fine, else drop it to 7-8 sec.
I don't mind a hardcore daily limet too at maybe 500 bods but it have to for the account and cross the shards.

[/ QUOTE ]

 

[Al Thorin]

<blockquote><hr>

account and cross the shards.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ah! There. I was just pointing out that hole to Connor in the other thread.

Personally, I'd rather see the effort going to make those sytems a little more involved than they are, but something is better than nothing I supose?

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

It do not really sounds like it is the non scripters who are crying here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well it is. Scripters have no reason to be crying at all, as this won't affect them in the least.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

For those that say they can turn one in every 2 seconds, why don't you take the extra 3 seconds to sort? You're going to do it anyway, why not when you first get the Bod?

[/ QUOTE ]

That was explained to you above, you just need to read.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

For those that say they can turn one in every 2 seconds, why don't you take the extra 3 seconds to sort? You're going to do it anyway, why not when you first get the Bod?

[/ QUOTE ]

That was explained to you above, you just need to read.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lord C.

Are you talking about every scripter or just the power profit scripters? Just wondering. I agree it wont stop scripting. But it does impact scripters and it certainly slows many down. The power scripter my not lose cause they will run more machines but it costs them.

I just dont get the general belief that all scripters are unharmed. Its just not true.

Lots of scripting is done by your basic joe.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

<blockquote><hr>

That being said, I tend to agree that capping the handins would be far more effective.

[/ QUOTE ]

AND just as easily circumvented by the scritter scum ... opening more accounts ... to burn off the PILE of filled low-end bods ...

Their SUPPLY of lowend cloth-leather-iron bods ... same
huh?

Instead of a "hard cap" ...how about ..."canceling" ... refusing a bod ... say... 5 times in 10 minutes ...
puts the ACCOUNT on a 1hour delay ... for the remainder of 24 hours ...

Easy and likely for a manual player to avoid tripping THAT switch ...

not so much so for the scritter scum farming for high end bods ...

^^Theres where the "multi farming accounts" can get hammmmmmered
5 times in 10 minutes ... can't just switch characters for cool down ... and bypass "the penalty"
instead of just opening 4 more (at 5 seconds) or 9 more (at 10 seconds) ... to maintain turn in results ..
hundreds of accounts to avoid the 1 hour turnin rate ...

Again... sure, that only forces them to "take a bod" every cycle ... tsk!
but
It also forces them to dispose of those bods they're not gonna fill (the "middle" leathers/ colored ingots)
in addition to the other trash they're accumulating turning in junk bods ...
Just one more piece ... that they didn't use to have, now do ... arrange to dispose of ...every cycle
to get the few targeted bods ...

just saying ...math wise ... better than a hard cap for ALL accounts
just a little more inconvenience for the 4 or 9 more accounts/per scritter to maintain volume.

To "cover the cost" of any extra accounts .. to maintain volume
They would want to INCREASE the price of what they're getting ... to break even ... yes?
not too likely ...but
just a little more inconvenience FOR THEM ... expanding an operation, increasing their "exposure", for the Same OR less profit ...
Well ...

Until EAMythic can wave the magic wand and make them gone for forever and ever ...
I'll settle for that.

 

[Guest]

How will it affect scripters? Like said they still need to take care of the rewards as well, sort the bods/get new bods/craft and fill the bods as well, they just change the script slightly to a new order and viola, they consistantly never hit the 10 second barrier and turn in as many as before.

<blockquote><hr>

Lots of scripting is done by your basic joe.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who gets their script from Master Joe.

 

[Al Thorin]

Disposing of Junk BOD's isn't all that hard.
In fact, do they even cancel as is?


<blockquote><hr>

Until EAMythic can wave the magic wand and make them gone for forever and ever ...
I'll settle for that.

[/ QUOTE ]
Wands are for wizards, witches and magic fairy's. They simply need pull their hammer out of the display case, and start whacking away.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

It do not really sounds like it is the non scripters who are crying here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well it is. Scripters have no reason to be crying at all, as this won't affect them in the least.

[/ QUOTE ]

Scripters will never admit it hurt them, they will try to make all believe it hurt honest non scripting players.

 

[Guest]

They will on their own forums, its pretty easy to go there and just read.

Ontop of that there's a bit of common sense.

So if we closed down SP Tomorrow, we should call all those who whine about it scripters? Because of course, its only scripters that whine about changes.

 

[Guest]

Funny how you know all the scripters forums.

I will put you back on ignore.
Bye

 

[imported_mr.blackmage]

Did I really just read a "you're right and I was wrong so I am putting you on ignore" post?

Wow. My 2 cents. I don't do crafting, I have never had a need for it on this account, however with my VERY basic knowledge of the scripting process (less than 1st year computer science), I could tell anyone here that a script can work around delays like that. I can also tell you that if I DID do bods, that I would do them all very efficiently, which involves collecting a whole bunch, filling them all in, and then doing turn ins. Any other way seems to be wasting a whole bunch of time. I know that if I did it this way, after the first 3 bods, I would get infuriated at the 10 second delay, and I would either quit (if it was what I played for) or just give up on the whole idea completely.

To the people it doesn't effect: Awesome, that's great. But that's because you aren't very efficient at the process anyways. Is there anything wrong with that? No, of course not, but it doesn't mean that everyone else should have to be inefficient at their tasks. I would say that MOST people don't do bods for the love of doing them... I would think that the rewards are the only reason (and skill gain, I guess). This just turns a boring task into an even more boring task, heh.

 

[Spree]

I been playing 9 year and have no clue where to find scripting forum. Maybe Ea should make a bug and post it there so they can ban all the Lil ****s that uses it.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

While it may be annoying, I do find it's a good move. 10 sec is not that hard to wait.
If it can slow down the scripters, it's worth it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Any fixed time delay will not affect scripters. I can't see how it will, by its very nature. I would think that anything in the game that is set on a regular interval, and always requiring the same actions, can be easily adjusted in the script to account for it. When there is no one at the keyboard, what do they care if they have to let the the script run longer to get the same results? What will happen is players who do play attended and without illegal programs will sit there thinking, hmmm can I watch more paint dry? 10 sec between attempts isn't long enough to do something else, and just long enough to drive you nuts while you sit there waiting, IMO.

I have no idea what the devs had in mind with this change, but I seriously hope fighting against scripting was not one of the reasons.

-Skylark