Can anyone think of 1 good reason to have a 5 or 10 sec delay between bod turn-ins?

[Guest]

As one poster mentioned, the only scriptors this affects are the ones turning in 8000 or more bods a day, which has to be only a few. However, as another poster mentioned, their simple fix is just to add another account turning them in. So, in one day or less, the scripters have adapted to the change and continue to put out as many barbed kits as before.

Several people here have mentioned that the timer is not so bad and they can live with it, but why? Why live with an annoyance like that?

 

[imported_Anakena]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

What on earth gave you the idea that this would slow down a scripter? That's a silly, illogical conclusion. Worst case scenerio they simply add a delay in the script and use an extra dummy account or two to turn in simultaneously-- though this would probably be unnecessary as I doubt there are many scripters running in a turn-in script 24 hours per day. The bods have to be filled sometime afterall. This will have absolutely zero impact on a script but will make the system needlessly frustrating on the average player.

Every time they try to make things harder on the scripter they make it far worse for the rest of us.

[/ QUOTE ]


You forget one factor : the bod in order to be turned, need to be filled first. It takes more than 10 seconds to craft/buy the stuff then to fill it into the bod.




Ah maybe mathematics.

If you can turn in 1 bod per second, how many bods can you turn in - 60 seconds?

Answer 60

If you can turn in 1 bod every 10 seconds, how many bods can you turn in - in 60 seconds?

Answer 6

Maybe slow down is not the right term. It inhibits scripting.

thats 360 vs what 3600 per hour.

[/ QUOTE ]

 

[Theo_GL]

<blockquote><hr>


You guys are griping over 10 seconds being an annoyance? No.....make it 15 now Jeremy.......


[/ QUOTE ]

A man made annoyance. Thats the issue. There is no reason for this.

IT DOES NOT SLOW SCRIPTING DOWN. Is that clear?

 

[AncientGeek]

[quote
You forget one factor : the bod in order to be turned, need to be filled first. It takes more than 10 seconds to craft/buy the stuff then to fill it into the bod.


[/ QUOTE ]

Given the large number of resources needed to fill the number of bods being suggested here, I doubt anyone is getting a bod, filling it, getting a new bod. Bods are filled seperately in a house, put in a bod book and turned in enmass.

This has nothing to do with the fact that this timer will have absolutely zero impact on the number of kits and hammers scripted. This will inhibit nothing-- not for a single day will the number of bods turned in by a script be lessened. What will change is the annoyance factor for the vast majority of players:

Click.. one one-thousand, two one-thousand, three one-thousand, four one-thousand, five one-thousand, six one-thousand, seven one-thousand, eight one-thousand, nine one-thousand, ten one-thousand CLICK... *groan*

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Your math is myopic. It doesn't matter in the slightest to a script how many you can turn in during one minute. It matters whether you can turn in all the bods that you fill in one day. Thus if you have 2000 bods to turn in it will now take 20,000 seconds aka about five and a half hours. What does a script care if it takes five hours or 30 minutes? Anyone running a script to turn in bods will see zero impact as long as they have less than 8000 bods or so per day. If there are those turning in more than that, which I doubt, simply need to use another account to turn them in.

This will have absolutely zero impact on a script. Meanwhile the person turning in fifty has to stare at the screen and count to ten before clicking again. It's senseless.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok. I just dont agree with you. It inhibits them. Cost more time. Less damage. Though we disagree. You statement shows it has more then a zero impact. Its a good move.

 

[Guest]

It's funny, we see alot of crying when we get changes like this. I'm sure much of the crying (not all) are from scripters/parasites who will lose RL money from this changes.
I'm not pointing at you and I have no way to know who are scripters/parasites on this forum.

Everything EA do to make UO gold and UO items lose value in RL cash will be bad for the parasites. Parasites do not play the game, they try to make a RL business from UO and they hurt the game badly.

If a scripter need to use more accounts/computers to make same RL cash an hour, it will hurt his business.
If a parasites or guy who work in UO 7/24 get less RL cash for UO gold or UO items after changes, it is bad for their business.

When they cry, they will try to claim they are normal UO players, they will never admit that they cry because it hurt their RL business.

EA please go on making this parasites lose their business.

If a new UO player can buy the items he need with money he make from normal playing or his crafter can make the items from gardering the resources from normal playing, he would not use RL money get needed items/gold/resources.

If the parasites can't sell their gold/items/resources for RL cash, it will hurt their busines.

Now a question to the EA, what items do sell for RL cash and how can we make them less valuable for the parasites.

Make the game worth playing, without need to use RL cash to get items like armor/weapons/jewely/PS

 

[AncientGeek]

You should try to refute some of the very clear arguments in this thread instead of name calling. Here, I'll help you out:

You'll think about the many fine arguments listed earlier and say " yes it doesn't inhibit the number of bods turned in per day but it does make it take longer thus increasing the chance that they get caught by giveing GMs more time to respond"

and then I'll say, "well that only matters if the person is actually afk. Someone turning in thousands of bods per shard likely has someone watching dozens of accounts at once with an alarm to notify them when a GM or even other players are around. This is why they don't get stopped now when people page. There have been many threads about this if you search".

Make arguments like that instead of name calling if you actually care about this issue.

 

[TheDrAJ]

I think it should be changed to 1 or 2 min delay,

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

You should try to refute some of the very clear arguments in this thread instead of name calling. Here, I'll help you out:

You'll think about the many fine arguments listed earlier and say " yes it doesn't inhibit the number of bods turned in per day but it does make it take longer thus increasing the chance that they get caught by giveing GMs more time to respond"

and then I'll say, "well that only matters if the person is actually afk. Someone turning in thousands of bods per shard likely has someone watching dozens of accounts at once with an alarm to notify them when a GM or even other players are around. This is why they don't get stopped now when people page. There have been many threads about this if you search".

Make arguments like that instead of name calling if you actually care about this issue.


[/ QUOTE ]
You can call it name calling if you want but people making a RL business from playing UO are parasites.

UO was meant to be a RP game, not a way to make RL cash.

Why do you feel offend of me using the word parasite? Are you one of UO's paresites? Do you play UO to make RL cash?

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

You should try to refute some of the very clear arguments in this thread instead of name calling. Here, I'll help you out:

You'll think about the many fine arguments listed earlier and say " yes it doesn't inhibit the number of bods turned in per day but it does make it take longer thus increasing the chance that they get caught by giveing GMs more time to respond"

and then I'll say, "well that only matters if the person is actually afk. Someone turning in thousands of bods per shard likely has someone watching dozens of accounts at once with an alarm to notify them when a GM or even other players are around. This is why they don't get stopped now when people page. There have been many threads about this if you search".

Make arguments like that instead of name calling if you actually care about this issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

AG
There is scripting on all scales. You too have to look a the big picture. One hand youll never shut down the huge scripter that employees people. In that case, sure they open up new account and really dont lose anything with the slower turn in rate.

But you have to over look the big guy above and the casually player that legit turns in 1000 a day while on computer. They are outlayers. Anomolies.

This change effect a the middle range and most scripters.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

<blockquote><hr>



IT DOES NOT SLOW SCRIPTING DOWN. Is that clear?

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, that whole "Zero impact" argument ... kinda wrong ... eh ?

Least wise for the scritter scum ...

It has "Zero impact" on me ... as a legit player ...

I recently bought .1 smith skill for my other chars, for my smith I'm building (currently 96.# ...) so I have a better chance of filling and dropping the bod on the NPC: for a better CHANCE at getting one of the grey shovels/picks ...for mining replacement ingots for the next cycle ...

Currently ... thats my target, the grey shovels/picks ... lotssa them ...
Thing is ... when I turn the lowend norms in ... NOW (before the change arrives) ... My 96.# smith ... gets an exceptional/colored bod .. FOR the the turn-in ...
for the most part that is ...

Now ... assuming that the scritter is after higher end BODs ... for the Higher End REWARDS ...
Now ... and later after the changes go worldwide ...

I'm still at "Zero impact" ...

The scritter? not so much ... definately NOT "zero" ...

Sure ... the scritter maybe able to STILL drop those masses of filled bods in (24hr x 60min x 60sec = 86400seconds a day) divide by 10 ... 8640 ...
Thing is ... to maintain the Old Volume ... simple ... gonna HAVE TO open 9 accounts ...AND ..
train them up to level best suited to GET the "right bod" ...
And ... even IF, the one account "Filling" the bods ... remains the same ...
STILL gonna have to get the filled bods TO the other nine for turn in ...AND ...
THEN ... run all ten accounts at the same time turning in bods ...

Just saying ... Hardly "Zero Impact" ...Certainly NOT easier ... NOR "more stealthy"

Never mind the "problem" ... FOR the scritter of keeping the bag clear of the LOW END pieces that come with every reward ...

Let's focus on the "other side of the box" ... just a few returning mules ... on the legitimate end of the scale ... with some small increase of the Low End Runics(kits and Hammers) WITH their increased abilities/chances to knock out a 100% mod ...

Well ...at the very least ... there should be a small INCREASE in the number of "upper middle class" armor's and weapon's ...
Which ... at the very least ... means "Paying premium" Should START to not be JUST under the control OF the scritter "Volume" advantage ..
Should START swinging to favor the "legit player"

I mean ... I'M starting to consider putting a vendor up ...
MAYBE some other legit players are considering bringing their mothballed crafters out of stone Storage ...

^^That would be a good thing ...

 

[Al Thorin]

...
It'll affect them yes, but it won't stop them.
They do it because it takes no effort, and still gain.
Regardless of a 10 second, or 5 second delay, they will still gain.

While limiting a scripters gain is good regardless, I don't see the point unless they plan on enforcing.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

<blockquote><hr>

...
It'll affect them yes, but it won't stop them.
They do it because it takes no effort, and still gain.
Regardless of a 10 second, or 5 second delay, they will still gain.

While limiting a scripters gain is good regardless, I don't see the point unless they plan on enforcing.

[/ QUOTE ]
No one thought IT WAS ... going to stop them .. not that I've seen ... please to link any contrary evidence.

As Above ... it CERTAINLY has more than "Zero Impact" on their scrittering ways ...
AND minimal impact on Legit players ... pretty "balanced" in the legit players FAVOR ...

As for yourself ...

HERE you state pretty clearly why I need not consider your opinion "On This Matter" any further:
QFT
<blockquote><hr>

Ok, here we go.

Plucky, Arcus, anyone else with a scripter hardon;

You guys know what? You're as bad as scripters. You've got the blinders on, and makea point of being as close minded as humanly possible. Which, by the way, is far more effecient, because LOGIC would force some level of though.

Anyways;
Yah, cheating is cheating. Whoopdefricken doo. Ok, dang, that was simple!
I script things for myself. Yup. I cheat. Ok. Do -I- think it's wrong? Yup.

Ok then! On we go.
Do -I- care what you think about what I do? Nope. Does it bother me that you get upset about it? Nope.

So, WHY do I do it?
Several reasons. And hey, guess what, none of them make it right or wrong, they're just REASONS. You know, the WHY.
I do it to make a point. The same reason I will come here and say yes, I do it. I've spent ALOT of time checking out aspects of the game systems, and the mechanics. I know what I like, and what I don't like.
I started because nothing was done about it. Correct, what was done was putting additional limits on normal game play.
I've watched the same god damned scripter recall in and out behind my house for -YEARS-. Fing YEARS.
So you know what? Fine. I'm going to save myself a crap load frustration by doing one thing. I play for myself. I script for myself.
I will continue untill 1 of 2 things happens.
I get banned.
They deal with scripting.
Hell do both and I can move on.


And Jeremy, you should pass this onto the Devs;
Cutting their BOD running in 1/3 isn't going to fix it. The 24/7 buggers will just use more accounts. You seriously didn't think that cutting their speed by 2/3rds would really do anything did you?
End result will be EA gets more money (from the scripters), and legit players will get stuck dealing with a 10/5 second timer.
And that 10 minutes may not seem alot to you, but it adds up, and it's 10 minutes of 'corner time' for something they didn't do.

You want to slow scripters? Get original, get harsh, or log activity based on a tolerance.
Player mines up 5k ore in a day? Log it. (Imaginary number, pick 10k then). They do it every day, or at all hours? Watch them, make a call and ban them.
A player recalls 10 thousand times a day for a week? Check up on them, and odds are, yah got, ban them.
Someone's doing 10k+ BOD's a day, for a month? Ban em.

Seriously, there's alot of aspects to a scripter that simply are not done by normal people.
Pick the extreme end, and DEAL WITH THEM. You can't miss them, they're ALWAYS ON.

I know alot of this comes down to how much time/money can you spend on enforcement, but you're gonna have to get in there, and CHASE THEM OUT. Make a point, keep making it. I bet 2/3-3/4 of them will stop on their own accord, and you can be left to deal with the remaining.

There's -no- system you can put in place to stop scripting. There's not a tweak that'll hurt a scripter more than a average player that they actually -care- about.
9k deeds instead of 30k? Do they care? No, they arn't even there. If they want 30k, they'll still get em.

Get in here, and just beat all the extreme cases with a logging truck if you have to, but for goodness sakes, do it. There's scores of large well known scripters and operations. Shut em down.

The longer you guys try to adjust or create systems to be anti scripting, the more ungangly and unenjoyable game components you will have.

Program friendly, interactve and rewarding systems that don't relly on doing the same thing, for 5, 10, 15, 20, 485,000 times.
How about a BOD that requested a suit of certain mods? 100% LRC BOD!

Add content that's interactive, interesteing and VARIED. -Nothing- beats a script more than variance. I know you guys are capable of spicing things up, so SPICE THEM UP. Think fun, varied thoughts. Get away from the static sets of this and that. So what if a random set creates a unlikely or impossible task?

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for clearing that up for me ...

 

[Guest]

I dont see what the big deal is? 5 seconds? its Maby a 2 sec increase in the total time to turn in a bod and clain another by hand? think about it. drag bod to npc, bring up contex to claim bod, read discription on accept decline window or in pack (looking for that L-bod or any worthy bods), drop crap rewards, repeat. by hand it wont be a big difference to a scripter tho it will make it more like its being done by hand. if they cant block script programs might as well bring their speed down to human level eh?

 

[Guest]

...

I don't think a LEGITIMATE player will even see much of a difference with the 5 second delay (10 probably, 5 no) mainly because you drag and drop the deed on the NPC. You then use the context menu to get the next deed. Click OK on the deed offer (or cancel), then drag the next deed.

That alone will take a few seconds anyway, so the change should be minimal at best.

 

[Kamelbarn]

<blockquote><hr>

...

I don't think a LEGITIMATE player will even see much of a difference with the 5 second delay (10 probably, 5 no) mainly because you drag and drop the deed on the NPC. You then use the context menu to get the next deed. Click OK on the deed offer (or cancel), then drag the next deed.

That alone will take a few seconds anyway, so the change should be minimal at best.

[/ QUOTE ]Believe me, when you master it you'll do it very very fast. A ten second cool down is going to make more people use a script for this, thats a fact.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

...

I don't think a LEGITIMATE player will even see much of a difference with the 5 second delay (10 probably, 5 no) mainly because you drag and drop the deed on the NPC. You then use the context menu to get the next deed. Click OK on the deed offer (or cancel), then drag the next deed.

That alone will take a few seconds anyway, so the change should be minimal at best.

[/ QUOTE ]That's what I've been thinking, while reading this entire thread.
I don't actually do BODs myself, because it strikes me as an even more tedious item chase than PvM...
But, whatever.
It's going to take you a couple of seconds to claim a new bod, and pick up the next one, anyway. I'd be surprised if the casual BOD filler really noticed a difference, tbh.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

...

I don't think a LEGITIMATE player will even see much of a difference with the 5 second delay (10 probably, 5 no) mainly because you drag and drop the deed on the NPC. You then use the context menu to get the next deed. Click OK on the deed offer (or cancel), then drag the next deed.

That alone will take a few seconds anyway, so the change should be minimal at best.

[/ QUOTE ]That's what I've been thinking, while reading this entire thread.
I don't actually do BODs myself, because it strikes me as an even more tedious item chase than PvM...
But, whatever.
It's going to take you a couple of seconds to claim a new bod, and pick up the next one, anyway. I'd be surprised if the casual BOD filler really noticed a difference, tbh.

[/ QUOTE ]

It *is* tedious at times, thats why we're so opposed at this change, because anything adding MORE tediousness to the task makes it even less fun.

The problem is that you can't go a rythm once an artificial wait is put in, its really really hard, its no longer relaxed as you constantly run into the delay limit.

 

[Guest]

All this has done is empower scripters even more. With this change EA has basically told the customer go out and get a script program to do this.

Another example of EA saying they are doing something about cheating and all they do is help the cheaters and turn more people away from honest game play and lure them to scripting.

This is an example of people not listening nor knowing what they are doing.

We get a FoF that are usually pointless junk and important issues addressed here on UHALL go unheard.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Can anyone think of 1 good reason to have a 5 or 10 sec delay between bod turn-ins?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope. No more bods for me.

 

[Basara]

I can think of one, and it's been stated repeatedly.

It slows down scripters, while NOT appreciably slowing down the vast majority of normal crafters.

The Whole IDEA of putting off 500 BODs to turn in sequentually in one trip with a non-scripted crafter boggles my mind. I have hard enough trouble turning in FIFTY at a time, with 4-6 seconds between turn-in (and if I'm cycling through low-end bods trying for better ones, I have to stop about every 30 BODs to unload the rewards - and one has to start with LOOSE BODs, not those in books, to even really maintain that rate). If I try to go faster, I end up losing BODs (accidentally dropping them on floor instead of vendor, or not requesting a new BOD before turning in another) from slips trying to accept the new BODs.

From my experience, anything fast enough to be affected by a 5 second delay consistantly would be CERTAIN to involve illegal forms of BOD turn-in automation. A delay would affect scripters by putting them in the same boat, per account, as the rest of us. Now, with them having so many accounts, they can probably compensate by running multiple accounts simultaneously to make up the lost time - but that will be time they WON'T HAVE for other illegal script processes (like mining, LJ, gold farming) to be run on those same accounts/machines.

Personally, I agree that 10 seconds is way too much - but allowing an illegal script to run at a rate faster than that which is matchable by a determined player without scripts is JUST AS BAD. Which, in the end, is what "no delay" does - gives the scripter an advantage a non-scripter CANNOT match continuously.

Five Seconds is about the same time MOST players take per pre-filled BOD, if being careful. Being not-so-careful can result in bad things (like where, trying to hurry, my Legendary smith with legendary macing, GAVE a smith NPC one of my best weapons while trying to grab a BOD, and all I got was an ""I thank Thee" with no way of getting it back - imagine accidentalyl giving a runic to an NPC that would take it as a gift?).

Those of you against ANY delay are at the wrong web page. The game you need to get is this one....

What you really Need....

 

[Guest]

...

I've got about 600 that I put off turning in, but ONLY after reading the changes that were to come.

Generally I do turnins around the 100-150 mark.

Of course, there will also be the issue that I didn't even bring up in my post about how the timer will be pretty much a non-issue for a manual player (someone actually making the moves, not using a script) with the juggling around the 125 item limit as well as the 400 stone "There is not enough room" issue that will take up some time as well as I decide what to do with the myriad of sturdy and prospector's tools I'll be getting.

 

[Guest]

By making the bod turn-in process longer and more annoying for the honest player, more people will either turn to scripting or stop doing bods. There is no doubt about that.

Plain and simple, this is not a good fix for scripting. Others have already mentioned that a far better way would be to limit the amount of bods an account can turn in for one day (maybe 100 or so). I understand, scripters could use multiple accounts to turn them in, but even to turn in 1000 bods, it would take 10 accounts at that rate. And the 30,000 bods that was mentioned earlier would take 300 accounts. I highly doubt any scripter can run that many.

I also understand that some honest players do want to turn in more than 100 bods (or whatever number was decided on), but I think they could more easily adjust to only turning in 100 per day than the very annoying 10 second wait between turn-ins. Granted, 5 or 10 seconds doesn't sound like a lot of time by itself, but when you're turning in 100 bods, it's an eternity (even considering the 2 or 3 seconds it may take for the turn-in itself).

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Those of you against ANY delay are at the wrong web page. The game you need to get is this one....

What you really Need....

[/ QUOTE ]I LOL'd

Lord Chaos and DENNAR...
*Sighs*

Firstly, I'll make the assumption that a manual player and a scripter can turn in BODs at the same rate, even though it's obvious that the scripter will be faster, without human reaction times and error slowing it down (not to mention bypassing certain mechanics). I'll set this time at 2.5 seconds, for ease of maths.

Now, looking at it two ways:
Firstly, the human player has 100 BODs to turn in.
Under the old system, they would turn in one every 2.5 seconds. (100 * 2.5) / 60 = 4 Minutes 10 Seconds
Under a 5 second timer, they would turn in one every 5 seconds. (100 * 5) / 50 = 8 minutes 20 seconds
So, it takes them twice as long to do the same task, or their productivity goes down to 50%.

Thanks to the simplicity of my maths, I don't actually need to do any calculations to determine that, if they turn in BODs for a set period, at those rates, they'll turn in half as many.


Now, consider the scripter.
By the miracle of sweeping assumptions, and oversimplified mathematics, I produce the numbers that:
By the current system, they turn in
24 per minute
1440 per hour
33120 in a 23 hour period

Because, by virtue of the numbers being identical, through assumption. We can say that the scripter's productivity is cut in half, also.
33120 in a 23 hour period becomes 16560.
As well as 16560 being the number of BODs turned in by the 23 hour scripter, it's also the number of BODs the scripter can no longer turn in.

I know... A universal 50% cut in productivity is not exactly something to break out celebratory alcoholic beverages over. But, add to the mix, the fact that I deliberately overestimated the amount of time it takes a scripter to turn in a BOD. The "24 per minute" is probably more like 40 (55200 in 23 hours).
This is all ignoring the process of filling the BODs, of course. But, that's just more processes the scripter has the speed advantage in.

So, a hard cap?
No.

Let's say you have your n BOD/day cap.
The scripter works up to that cap, walks a rail, logs out.
Suddenly, Sir BODsalot II appears.
Sir BODsalot II turns in n BODs, walks a rail, logs out.
Suddenly, Sir BODsalot III appears.
Sir BODsalot III turns in n BODs, walks a rail, logs out.
Ad nauseum...

Incremental timer?
Not too bad an idea.

But, then the scripter just draws a threshold.
Then, it works the same as a hard cap.

Account-bound timers/caps?
Multiple accounts.

Sure, the 5-second timer sucks.
I don't hate it, but I'm not about to declare my undying love for it, either.
But, there is no such thing as a game mechanics change that won't hit legit players.
You want scripters and cheaters fought?
Prepare for collateral damage.

 

[Guest]

...

Also to take into account:

- Obtaining new BOD
- Moving or removal of BOD reward (drop on floor, give to NPC, put on pack animal, etc) to make room for next BOD/reward.
- Moving BODs in and out of BOD books (turning in completed deeds, stashing away new deeds
- Moving BOD books to and from storage locations

There are a LOT of additional affects that have to be taken into consideration in which a script speeds up even faster than a manual player.

With that put into the equation, again, I do not think that a 5 second delay is going to be an issue to a manual player as they:

1. Remove BOD(s) from "turn in" book
2. Turn in BOD
3. Get new BOD
4. Place BOD reward in desired location (pack animal, floor, npc, trash, etc)
5. Place new BOD in "New BODs" book
6. Repeat until turn in book is empty or pack animal or other storage is full of rewards in which case a trip back to the character's house is required to dump rewards and get the next turn in book.
7. Fatigue/boredom sets in and the player decides to change focus to another activity.

Compare to the scriptor who already has BOD runners, and so most likely doesn't bother with getting new deeds:

1. Dump BODs from turn in book
2. turn in BOD
3. move reward to desired location
4. Repeat from 2 until all BODs gone
5. Go get next turn in book

Even if you throw in "get next BOD" into the equation, the script will do all of this MUCH faster than the manual player, and thus they WILL be much more greatly affected than simply a 50% efficiency cut.

The more I consider the 5 second delay, the more it doesn't bother me and the more I DO see it as an actual move that will have little affect on the normal, manual player and MORE affect on the scriptor (unlike earlier changes to other aspects of the game).

By the same token, I'll take a small delay which can be used for a secondary, needed action over a hard turn in limit within a given timeframe. "Hard Caps", especially artificial ones just come off as quick answer bandaids to game balance problems.

 

[Theo_GL]

<blockquote><hr>


Now, consider the scripter.
By the miracle of sweeping assumptions, and oversimplified mathematics, I produce the numbers that:
By the current system, they turn in
24 per minute
1440 per hour
33120 in a 23 hour period


[/ QUOTE ]

You people are hopeless.

Scripters don't turn in 33,000 bods a day now. They turn in several hundred.

Remember they need to actually FILL the bods which takes time. Then turn them in.

The issue is that where it might have taken them 20 min before - it now takes 1.5 hours.

What you people fail to undersand is that TIME IS NEARLY UNLIMITED for scripters.

The honest bod runner who lugs a book of 100 filled bods (I keep all mine in blocks of 100 so they are easy to move around and put in my pack) now has to sit for at least 100*10 seconds. 1,000 seconds is 16 min.

Is it that bad? Maybe not - but sitting there and getting some message like 'You are not able to do that yet' is about as annoying as getting the cohesion message for gates.

This only frustrates honest players. Scripters don't care. Their time is unlimited.

Its funny how many non-crafters are chiming in this discussion.

Ok, for the rest of you - what if we combated gold farmers by making it a 1 min timer between attacking creatures? Would that be 'fun'?

How about we put a 5 min timer in after your PvP and die before you can rez? Would that be fun?

Do you see my point? They are putting something in that does not stop scripting and annoys the honest players.

We don't need to drive more honest folks away. This change disuades people from doing it manually cause no one wants to sit down and turn their book of bods in and wait for timers.

Honest players throw up their hands...decide to buy from scripters. Scripters are happy because now their goods are worth more.

The used to get 25 barb kits a day before this - they will get 25 a day after it.

The real problem is the speed at which you can get bods at .1 -NOT the turn in.
Ok, I'm done here. If you people can't see this then fine.

I told you EXACTLY what would happen with the other bod changes and no one listened. I called the fact that 'turn a bod in get a new bod' would be scripers paradise and it would drop barb kit prices from 6 mil to 3mil. Yes, I look like nostradamous don't I? Not really. I just understand crafting, the economy, and the impact our massive script operations have on it. This stuff is easy to predict if you use a little bit of foresight.

 

[rovpilotusn]

"rovpilotusn
Adventurer


Reged: 09/13/06
Posts: 93
Re: I just got 20 BODs on my 120 smith. [Re: Lord Kotan]
#7595893 - 01/24/08 12:59 AM Edit Reply Quote



Just finished turning in 500 smithy bods (god my arm is gonna fall off and I think my mouse over heated lol). Results are 323 Iron small Bods 23 Iron large Bods and 154 Color Bods (smalls and larges). Rough figures would be 31% color and 69% Iron. I don't know if this proves anything or not. BTW, stats are 120 smith, 120 tailor, 100 tink, 100 carp, 100 arms lore, 100 mining and 80 mage. Little side note, best bods I got in return were a 20 exc verite plate gloves and 39 powders. "


So, does this make me a scripter because I turned in 500 BoD's??? I DON'T THINK SO! If I would have had to wait 10 seconds between each BoD, I would have tossed the BoD book in the dumpster and burned it (would have saved my iron ingots for something else or sold them). I've been doing BoD's for a long time and all by hand. I'm on my second G5 mouse and I'm sure most of it is from clicking the hell out of the screens to fill all the BoD's I've done. Turning them in takes a lot of time out of my game play also. *By game play, I am refering to the time I could be out hunting, running with guildmates, doing other things other than BoD's* I don't turn in 10 or 20 BoD's at a time, I go until I have A LOT (200-500) of them, and then turn them all in at one time. I've been doing it that way for years now. I know someone is going to come back and say "Well, it just means a bit more time at the Smith or Tailor shop." But that's just it, I don't have all day/night to turn BoD's in especially if it is going to take 2-4times longer with the 10 second delay built in. When I did that 500 BoD book, I think I was turning in BoD's for over 3 hours. Granted, I was emptying my pack at the bank, talking with the occasional Smith that stopped by, chatting in Guild Chat, etc. But I was at a Smithy shop for 3+ hours that I could have been out doing something else in game. NOW, you want me to spend HOW MUCH TIME??? This is ridiculous at best and EA is chasing one more person out of the LEGITIMATE BoD business. I'll probably still collect my BoD's, to see if by chance I can catch a break and that good BoD jumps into my pack, but I will not be filling any BoD's to turn in for the hopes of catching the good ones anymore, it just wont be worth my time or effort. Guess I'll be making a stop by the dumpster at my local bank and dumping any BoD that I feel "Not Worthy" from now on (little Waynes World there).

 

[Guest]

The scripter's time will always be "unlimited".
There's not actually a practical way to "fix" that...

"Ban scripting!" Yes, I know...
But we're talking realistically here/

Also, in before some bright spark with the perfect cure for scripting sat in their back pocket.

Theo.
You say scripters only turn in a few hundred BODs a day, to get the barbed kits.
I suppose they get those rare BODs from the magical leprechaun's wishing well?
Not... That we couldn't use that as a euphemism for duping... But, if we factor duping into the equation, then any "fix" short of complete removal done to the BOD system is not enough.

Yes, my maths was overly simplistic.
But, it illustrated the point I was trying to make.
Numerically, it affects the larger BOD churners more.

Then...
A 1 minute timer for PvM
A 5 minute timer for PvP
What are such meaningless exaggerations supposed to convey?
That you have a flair for the dramatic?

<blockquote><hr>

Ok, I'm done here. If you people can't see this then fine.

[/ QUOTE ]You're convinced that you know better than everyone else. Backed up by your ability to gloat over some past prophetic insight.
Though, you haven't actually made a very strong case, beyond "I'm right, and the rest of you who disagree are hopeless"

I'm 95% confident that you'll be proven wrong.
And when that happens, I hope that you feel really silly.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

Stow it mister ... sheesh ...
at WORST your claiming 100 bods an hour ... Yes? NOT ON TEST .. right? ingame as is .. right? (the timer is COMING ... IS NOT ON PRODO... y e s ?)
60minutes full of 60 seconds each ... 3600 seconds ... yes? for As many as 100 bods yes ?
36 seconds per bod ... on average then ... YESSSS ???

You need not worry about the ten second timer ...

your currently NOT that fast ...

<blockquote><hr>

I think I was turning in BoD's for over 3 hours

[/ QUOTE ]... sorry ...^^ that was 500 bods at 5 hours ... still
60x60=3600 ... x3(hours) =10800 seconds ... 1 bod per(on average) .. 21.6seconds (21.6x500=10800)

You STILL need not worry about the ten second timer ...

your STILL currently NOT that fast ...

 

[Guest]

There isn't a good reason, be it 5 or 10 Sec's between BOD turn in's. Just makes it harder for the people who DO FOLLOW the rules &amp; don't script. There are so many OTHER PROBLEMS in this game that have existed for so long, why doesn't EA hop on that band wagon of problems to fix them instead of making up new BS that hurts the average player. (IE: Random Resource spawn to start with) Do you actually think that/this is going to stop scripters??? Think again, all you are doing is hurting the people who have stuck this game out because of some enjoyment &amp; get on for that couple of hrs a day or w/end. Now, put yourselves on the other side of the fence sometime &amp; see just how much a pain in the butt some of these new changes have been for the average player who only gets a few hrs a week playing time. Would you Stay ??

 

[Guest]

Under this system a scripter just logs in 10 accounts and does bods on all of them if he honestly wanted that many turn ins.

But you're being absolutely silly, a scripter doesn't turn in that many bods on one character.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

1. Remove BOD(s) from "turn in" book
2. Turn in BOD
3. Get new BOD
4. Place BOD reward in desired location (pack animal, floor, npc, trash, etc)
5. Place new BOD in "New BODs" book
6. Repeat until turn in book is empty or pack animal or other storage is full of rewards in which case a trip back to the character's house is required to dump rewards and get the next turn in book.
7. Fatigue/boredom sets in and the player decides to change focus to another activity.

[/ QUOTE ]

1. I remove a stack of them at the same time
2. takes a single drag, fraction of a second
3. takes a second at most
4. I don't need to place the BOD reward anywhere until done
5. Only happens if its a worthwhile BOD and that takes about a second maybe
6. Which has nothing to do with the individual turn-in times
7. See 6.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

I'm 95% confident that you'll be proven wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Proven wrong how?

So far the only indicator I've seen is the two only bod runners I know of are considering turning to scripting or quitting, and myself are just considering to just not do BODs again.

Whats the success of this change? Its not affecting anything but the most hardcore of scripters which can circumvent this by using multiple characters anyway (which they probably were in the first place), it will drive more legitimate players towards scripting and it will drive more people to either quit BOD'ing or quit the game.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

Well ...the ONLY "bod turner" so far ... rovpilotusn (above)
Has me backing Kiminality so far ...

And, Your not actually proving her wrong ... by bringing NO time-per-example ...
Talk, ya gots ... bring some examples.

<blockquote><hr>

Whats the success of this change? Its not affecting anything but the most hardcore of scripters which can circumvent this by using multiple characters anyway (which they probably were in the first place), it will drive more legitimate players towards scripting and it will drive more people to either quit BOD'ing or quit the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure they can ... use multiple accounts/characters ... BUT
1 example of rovpilotusn doing it manually and not being affected ...
Compared to: IF the scritterscum want to Maintain the exact same VOLUME ... as NOW...(caution: MATH coming

)

How many MORE simultaineous accounts will they need start and maintain ?
Are they gonna be able to PROFIT...as much ... running these extra accounts?

kinda depends on them getting the same gp per ... huh?

Cause ...the "maybe 10 second timer" is not going to be the only thing to consider ... doh!

More "worthwhile" for a legit crafter to actually USE a Spined or Horned kit ... Dull copper Runics ... with a chance of rolling a 1x100% MOD ...50 times ...
well ... rolling the enhanced stock IN IRON... THEN enhancing with another higher runic/material ... wellll

we'll see ... prices ...in about 2 months ...

I got a quatloo that the general price for a barbed Kit won't STILL be at... what? 2.5?
nah... not 2.5 ... certainly NOT higher ... lower ...

Also ... chances at rolling for a Higher Bod ... with more crafters crafting .... with their GM+ crafters ...

2 months ...
We'll see.

 

[Anonomo]

<blockquote><hr>

Not to argue with your general idea, but that change was talked about here in November.

[/ QUOTE ]

Many of us dont live on stratics Jeremy...... So with that in mind... Did you talk about it with ALL players?

I myself see nothing with this than hurting the regular honest platers, as well as many other recent changes you have made.

Keep in mind, only a small percentage of players live on these boards... I myself may come here once a month to try and figure what the hell you are thinking myself.... and many others dont come here at all....

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

the ONLY "bod turner" so far

[/ QUOTE ]

Uhm, lots of "bod turners" are against this, including myself.

<blockquote><hr>

use multiple accounts/characters

[/ QUOTE ]

The only scripters that could possibly be adversely affected by this would be using multiple accounts anyway for their turn-in, so wouldn't be affected as an end result.

But on the other hand lots of legitimate people WOULD be affected.

 

[Guest]

*bleh*

 

[rovpilotusn]

FLAP FLAP FLAP...THAT'S ALL I HEAR FROM YOU SO, WHY DON'T YOU STOW IT FAILED ILLUSIONS OF GRANDJURE! MY POINT IS OBVIOUSELY MISSED BY YOU AND YOU’RE HOLIER THAN THOUGHNESS.

The point I was making was that I HAVE done 500 BoD's by hand AND turned them in by hand RECENTLY! Another point I was making was that I do allot of BoD's and when I go to turn them in, I don't have the time to stand around picking my nose while I wait for the 10 second timer. When I do decide that I will turn in BoD's then I want to turn them in then. I can turn them in quit quickly when I put my mind to it, and it's not all that hard to turn them in quickly. So, step off the hobby horse, PAY ATTENTION to other peoples posts and stop busting other peoples BOOTIES when you OBVIOUSELY haven't paid enough attention to the write up to know what the people are talking about. I do BoD's to supplement my income and I hate buying barbed kits and all the other items I use from other people when I am able to obtain the items myself. SO, if you would have paid attention, you would have been able to figure out that I will not be turning in PLAIN JANE BoD's in order to increase my chances of getting a "Good" BoD. However, I WILL be claiming my BoD's when ever in game, trying to get one of the "Good BoD's" and WILL be dumping ALL other BoD's in the dumpster because they do me absolutely no good now. Can you understand my point now that it is pretty much black and white or do we need to have a sit down session and explain it all over again?
Oh, and by the way...bravo on the higher math quiz you gave. Wow, didn't know anyone could figure out that there were 60 seconds in a minute, 60 minutes in an hour, 24 hours in a day, 7 days in a week, on average 30.4368499 days in a month, and last of all, 12 months in a year. WOW, didn't know that. However, did you know that there are 168 hours in that week which is 10,080 minutes which is 604,800 seconds? AND did you know that the average month has 730.4844 hours in it which means that there are 43,829 seconds in a month and 2,629,744 seconds in that month also...that's allot of seconds ya know.
Last one here to prove Failed ILLUSIONS prowess of the mathematical wizardries of the universe...there are 31 MILLION 556 THOUSAND 926 seconds in one year. I’m sure glad someone has a calculator and can explain all this to me.

 

[imported_gawin]

Its all quite simple.

90% of all changes by the Dev team from community collections to random wood/ores now to this BOD timer Favor the scripter.

Why should this be any different.

Virtually every single thing they do favors scripting. People can give this Dev team all the praise they want but just have a look around all the empty servers and it will tell you how great a job they have done over the last 3 years.

 

[Guest]

Here's what it all boils down to.

Does the timer actually slow down the scripters.

Well, if I were a smart cookie (which I am) I would assume they're not ******** and could come up with a reasonable solution.

What would my solution be? The same as anyone elses here I suppose. A second tailor. Alternate between the two, as to avoid wasting much time.

Now they arent really turning in hundreds of thousands a day. their vendors and houses would be bursting at the seems, as the intake of BODs would be much greater then their output/sales. My guess is they only do it for a few hours a day. Now assuming they do take up two tailors to turn in bods, can they really fill the bods faster then they can turn them in? I really don't see that happening. I really doubt that the scripts can fill a BOD faster then the gump pops up. So I guess my point is I don't really see this change hurting anyone who knows what they're doing, where as a daily hard cap would.

Just my thoughts though.

 

[AncientGeek]

This isn't that complicated. People keep pointing to the number of bods turned in per minute, but that's a totally irrelevant statistic. Here's what matters: is the number of bods filled per day by a script greater than the number of bods that can be turned in per day by a script? If the answer is yes, you have slowed scripting. If the answer is no, you have not slowed it.

With a 10 second delay you can turn in around 8000 bods per day depending on server downtime, and so on. Thus a delay has only slowed those turning in 8000 or more per day-- which is probably nobody. In the meantime you have created a headache, diminished playability, and increased frustration on every player in the game turning in less than 8000 bods per day.

If they really want to diminish the amount of bods turned in per day they should just hard cap it at 500 This would diminish the total one account could turn in to 1/16 that of a 10 sec timer and do it without a headache for everyone else. If 500 is to high do 300-- but don't ruin the playability of the game system for everyone else.

Imagine if the solution to script looting had been a 10 second delay between each item taken off a corpse so everyone would have a chance at something. hunters would have gone crazy-- instead they used instanced corpses. Everyone was happy and gameplay wasn't crippled. This is an example of a good solution. It's not that we're opposed to solutions-- it's that we are opposed to poorly devised, obviously flawed ones.

 

[Basara]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

the ONLY "bod turner" so far

[/ QUOTE ]

Uhm, lots of "bod turners" are against this, including myself.<blockquote><hr>

use multiple accounts/characters

[/ QUOTE ]

The only scripters that could possibly be adversely affected by this would be using multiple accounts anyway for their turn-in, so wouldn't be affected as an end result.

But on the other hand lots of legitimate people WOULD be affected.

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF???? Your argument seems to be "I know it's black because it's WHITE!!!!!"

First: Even the people FOR a timer agree that 10 seconds is too long. 5 seconds, on the other hand, WOULD WORK.

The number of legitimate people that would be affected by a five second timer (note this word) CONSISTANTLY is ZERO.

I've played crafters for 5 years. The breakdown of the process for LEGITIMATE crafters is EXACTLY as stated by the others, with one caveat. Some people will pull "X" number of BODs out (the number of rewards they can hold, both BOD and item, before running into the 390 barrier left over from the pre-harrower weight limits), then sort the rewards and BODs, before setting for the next pass. This produces the OPTIMUM speed. Even doing that (my normal method, BTW), I am YET to break the 12 BOD per minute barrier CONSISTANTLY; in fact, the typical speed is closer to 10/minute. Hell, more often I run into time issues trying to grab the next BOD TOO QUICKLY - and that's on 10mbps/512kbps (down/up) cable!

The assertions that it would benefit scripters and that time is limitless are both LUDICROUS IN THE EXTREME.

Now, in your "infinite time with infinite script monkeys at infinite keyboards" universe, you might be right. But time is NOT infinite in the scale you want this to work - nor are their numbers of computers to access. Every second the scripters lose, is THAT MANY SECONDS that scripter cannot use THAT ACCOUNT OR THAT COMPUTER for other scripting. Time is not miraculously compressing for their benefit.

IF a scripter has 20 accounts, on 20 computers, gathering BODs, they will STILL run into the same time issues. They WILL lose time that would have normally been used on their usual OTHER scripting endeavors (remember, currently, most of them are so lazy with their scripts they don't even LEAVE the BOD gathering site except to unload when they reach capacity, and let the account time out over 5 minutes while going to other accounts). Even if they start recalling in or out, that's STILL time their other accounts are losing. If their scripted BODs now take 5 seconds per instead of 2 seconds per, for turn in, that is 1 minute PER 30 BODS, they aren't script logging, script mining, script BOD requesting, or script filling their other BODs.

This might have minimum effect on the turn in for the high reward BODs, but most of the scripters I've heard of are ALSO doing what most of us legitimate BOD runners are doing - filling cloth bods (using all that reward cloth, dyed one color), to request MORE BODS, on one or more accounts - only they use scripts for that part as well. While it won't effect their filling process (otehr than giving them less time TO fill the junk BODs), Cutting down this BOD cycling from 3000-3500 BODs/hour (1/second would be 3600) per account to about 700 B/h will have a DRAMATIC effect on their acquisition of additional "keeper" BODs, for the OTHER side of their BOD scripting operation.

As for those who DON'T do this for their scripting operation, they SELL the smalls. And, most of you that have been buying mass "collections" of thousands of cloth BODs, "supposedly" from people leaving the game, at amounts ranging around 5k-10k each, have been HELPING those scripters, by not actually THINKING about how, suddenly, such BOD collections have become commonplace. One of my guildmasters has fallen into this trap, not stopping to think how so many BODs are becoming so commonly available, when logically even the BOD Books of SO MANY collections easily pass the number of IDOCs and departing accounts the shard sees each week - and the sellers KEEP GETTING MORE COLLECTIONS TO SELL.

In other words, if you're against this because it would slow down the filling (legitimately) of thousands of cloth BODs you bought, you're actually part of the PROBLEM, as you are directly funding the scripters as much as if you were buying their kits. That may not be you, LC, but I guarantee that SOME of the readers of this thread have been doing this unwittingly (or perhaps not so unwittingly, in some cases). And, in turn, it gives them MORE money to increase their scripting infrastructure (more computers, more accounts) to compensate for their coming loss of efficiency.


I suggest persons who cannot grasp that altering one part of scheduling can have drastic effects on other parts take a math or CS course on descrete structures and similar theory (usually a freshman level course at most schools); these types of classes range from the classic "seven Bridges" &amp; "mail route efficiency" problems and solution set patterns (like the classic peg/golf tee puzzle game they leave on the tables for the customers to play at Cracker Barrel), to multi-channel scheduling (the type of issue we are discussing here), where you can only do one thing per channel, at any given time, have a limited number of channels, and certain things have to be done in specific order - and one must find the most efficient setup of these actions.

 

[Theo_GL]

<blockquote><hr>


You're convinced that you know better than everyone else. Backed up by your ability to gloat over some past prophetic insight.
Though, you haven't actually made a very strong case, beyond "I'm right, and the rest of you who disagree are hopeless"

I'm 95% confident that you'll be proven wrong.
And when that happens, I hope that you feel really silly.


[/ QUOTE ]

That day will never come.

How many bods do you have? How many have you completed?

How many scripters have to watched do bods? Which shards? Where do they log in for their smalls?

Do you know how many smalls it takes to get a large one on average?

Show me that you know a little more than nothing. I'll put my crafting/bod/economy knowledge up against anyone in the game. Bring it.

 

[Guest]

It's simple logic.

No need to wave attitude around.

In the end the scripter's wont be hurt by this change.

In the end we will be.

A daily cap &gt; Timer between BODs.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

heheheh thilly ... nice try at skipping over the "net result" of YOUR "quite quickly" of turning in bods by hand

100 per hour (500 in 5 hours)
36 seconds per bod ... on average then ...
You need not worry about the ten second timer ...
your currently NOT that fast ..

500 bods in 3 hours
60x60=3600 ... x3(hours) =10800 seconds ... 1 bod per(on average) ..<font color=red> 21.6seconds</font color=red> (21.6x500=10800)

Then: (*bows*) Basara:
I am YET to break the 12 BOD per minute barrier CONSISTANTLY; in fact, the typical speed is closer to 10/minute. Hell, more often I run into time issues trying to grab the next BOD TOO QUICKLY - and that's on 10mbps/512kbps ....

Now... as to ACTUALLY having something to "debate"
Wilki_EA
UO Legend
11/19/07

Edit: Added a few fixes to the end of the list, and changed the delay to 5 seconds.

Edited by Wilki_EA (11/20/07 06:19 PM)

Jeremy_EAMythic VIP
UO Community Coordinator

02/08/08
I'm actually suspecting that most of this outrage is not about the BOD turnin timer - while, yes, ten seconds is annoying, and 5 would be more bearable, this is one change that does disproportionately affect scripters. We're talking about people turning in <font color=red>30k</font color=red> BODs a day- 5 seconds per hits them pretty hard, whereas your average player, even doing a set of 100 at once, is set back less than ten minutes.

Jeremy_EAMythic VIP
UO Community Coordinator

02/08/08 05:06 PM
As near as we can tell, Wilki never actually documented or made the 5 second change. I believe Draconi's planning to tweak it in the next publish.
(Side note: contact Wilki, ask him where he last remembers seeing the notes... code ...

)

Just saying ... Wilki "relented" and rolled back to 5 seconds ... back in November ...The SCALE of the scritter target ... 10,000 bods A Day and up(allowing for not actually having/saying THE target number)

Basara appears to be ready to "accept" a 5 second delay
You rovpilotusn might have noticed an unnanounced 10 second ... but, probably won't "benefit From the lower 5 second one ..." YOUR numbers and questimates ..

show that your really NOT that fast ...
see the math above ...

As a legit bodder .. in the extreamly low range of Numbers turning in ... 5 OR 10 second delay ...
perfectly acceptable


*dusts hands*
Now:

The REST of the changes:
1. Corrected a small error that gave skilled smith's a 45% base chance to get a colored BOD instead of the intended 50% chance.
2. GM Smiths still get a 10% bonus chance for a colored BOD (60% total).
3. Elder Smiths get a 20% bonus chance for a colored BOD (70% total).
4. Legendary Smiths get a 40% bonus chance for a colored BOD (90% total).
5. The chances of getting a valorite BOD (once you've passed the colored BOD test), have been raised substantially.
6. There is also a short delay (5 seconds) between turning in multiple filled BODs.(pending)
7. Colored footwear large bods should now be offered.
8. All runic tools have had their intensity ranges changed as follows:
Blacksmithing:
o Dull Copper: 40 - 100
o Shadow: 45 - 100%
o Copper: 50 - 100%
o Bronze: 55 - 100%
o Gold: 60 - 100%
o Agapite: 65 - 100%
o Verite: 70 - 100%
o Valorite: 85 - 100%
Tailoring:
o Spined: 40 - 100%
o Horned: 45 - 100%
o Barbed: 50 -100%

Remember? The End Goal ^^^ FOR turning in bods? the pay-off ... the rewards ... they GOT BUMPED ... sweeter, more valuable, more worth using ...
There SHOULD be a trade off ... a little give a little to get a little ...
Ten seconds WAS FAIR ...considering the INCREASED WORTH of the prize ...

Ten seconds was FAIR ...because the cursed scritter scum ... are not only "impacted" at the high Volume end ... there SHOULD BE more product to compete against ...
Produced by casual returning crafters ... to TRY the Improved rewards out ...
*sigh*
o'well

"Big Picture" arguments ...seldom win over Individual perspectives ..."For the GAME" vs "Me Mine I"

time will tell

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

That day will never come.

How many bods do you have? How many have you completed?

How many scripters have to watched do bods? Which shards? Where do they log in for their smalls?

Do you know how many smalls it takes to get a large one on average?

Show me that you know a little more than nothing. I'll put my crafting/bod/economy knowledge up against anyone in the game. Bring it.

[/ QUOTE ]Ah, yes...
The "I do it more than you, so I know better" stance.
It never gets old, does it?

Your reasoning is deeply flawed, but you refuse to see it.
Does that make you right?
No.
Try harder.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

gotta give a little to get a little ...

Y'all be freaking about the little time delay cost versus the LARGE improvement for the runic rewards ...

How about this:
I would be willing to offer a twenty second delay, per each bod turn in, FOR
a random roll on an INCREASE from the known minimum mods each runic applies ...

Take a spined kit
now, you can get a max of 3? properties added (with a "changed" max intensity of 100% possible)
For 20 seconds of My Time ... I would Like a Chance at, a spined runic kit, rolling an occasional [4]

Take a Dull copper Runic
now, you can get a max of 2? properties added (with a "changed" max intensity of 100% possible)
For 20 seconds of My Time ... I would Like a Chance at, a Dull copper Runic, rolling an occasional [3]

gotta give a little to get a little ...
a little time, for a little chance
Thats the story of
negotiation

.

(Note for Jeremy: Will be Due an update ...

... soon ..

)

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

The number of legitimate people that would be affected by a five second timer (note this word) CONSISTANTLY is ZERO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Looks at self, oops, already counted one, so you're just wrong.

<blockquote><hr>

I am YET to break the 12 BOD per minute barrier CONSISTANTLY

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, maybe you're doing it the slow way described by others, I described the fast way.

<blockquote><hr>

In other words, if you're against this because it would slow down the filling (legitimately) of thousands of cloth BODs you bought

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't buy BODs, I have a whole 18x18 full with nothing but BOD books that we've collected ourselves.

<blockquote><hr>

This might have minimum effect on the turn in for the high reward BODs, but most of the scripters I've heard of are ALSO doing what most of us legitimate BOD runners are doing - filling cloth bods (using all that reward cloth, dyed one color), to request MORE BODS, on one or more accounts - only they use scripts for that part as well. While it won't effect their filling process (otehr than giving them less time TO fill the junk BODs), Cutting down this BOD cycling from 3000-3500 BODs/hour (1/second would be 3600) per account to about 700 B/h will have a DRAMATIC effect on their acquisition of additional "keeper" BODs, for the OTHER side of their BOD scripting operation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because riiight, scripters are turning in over 85.000 BODs per day. They do need to fill the bods too you know. Off load them etc.

<blockquote><hr>

The assertions that it would benefit scripters and that time is limitless are both LUDICROUS IN THE EXTREME.

[/ QUOTE ]

More would script, regular scripters won't care (it won't affect them at all), so yeah, its not really going to affect them, its more on the beneficial side.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

You need not worry about the ten second timer ...
your currently NOT that fast ..

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you on about, its pretty easy to turn in faster than 10 seconds.

<blockquote><hr>

We're talking about people turning in 30k BODs a day

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh yeah, and those would be soooo hard to detect. *sarcasm*

But uuuuhhhh...now they're "down" to 8640 per day, assuming they don't consolidate their filling at the same time they get the BODs or something.

<blockquote><hr>

The REST of the changes:

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is a nice wonderful cake, with a big poop ontop of it...the rest of the cake might be really yummy, but the poop (the timer) ruins it.

*shrugs* Maybe I should just give in and use a script as others on my shard are talking about doing, that would solve all the problems and I would never ever have to worry about the timer again *tempting*

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Your reasoning is deeply flawed, but you refuse to see it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could say the same thing about you.