Calling All Community! Be A Part Of The Rule Making Process!

[Promathia]

Again, it just doesn't belong in the Rares Collector forum. I don't care if someone is a new collector or an old collector, we shouldn't be "ok" with items we know 100% were dupes.

If we could tell 100% which Event Items were dupes of the originals, I would say they shouldn't be allowed either, but alas we cant and the dupe detection doesn't work for them.

 

[Orich]

Again, it just doesn't belong in the Rares Collector forum. I don't care if someone is a new collector or an old collector, we shouldn't be "ok" with items we know 100% were dupes.

If we could tell 100% which Event Items were dupes of the originals, I would say they shouldn't be allowed either, but alas we cant and the dupe detection doesn't work for them.

But they are rares. They can't be made anymore, they are legal to own, and are not common.

How about items that were ironically "forgotten to be locked down" during EM events? Or perhaps items that fall off mobs that aren't supposed to during an event? Are these "ok" in your opinion? There are plenty of rares out there that exist from questionable circumstances at best -- worth an order of magnitude more than a glacial spellbook.

The rares community isn't a cast of a thousand -- no one is trying to "pull one over" by selling a glacial item for 50-200mil. There is a market for them, they are rare, they are legal to own, and no one should be banned for trading in them -- on any forum.

 

[Promathia]

How about items that were ironically "forgotten to be locked down" during EM events? Or perhaps items that fall off mobs that aren't supposed to during an event? Are these "ok" in your opinion? There are plenty of rares out there that exist from questionable circumstances at best -- worth an order of magnitude more than a glacial spellbook.

There is a very big difference between an item that came from an EM event, and an item players MADE via a bug in the game.

 

[Orich]

There is a very big difference between an item that came from an EM event, and an item players MADE via a bug in the game.

If I acquire an item surreptitiously from an EM friend of mine, or I create it via a bug in the system -- how is the latter less acceptable?

 

[Promathia]

If I acquire an item surreptitiously from an EM friend of mine, or I create it via a bug in the system -- how is the latter less acceptable?

How can it be proven that an item was given to you by an "EM Friend"? It cant, thus we cant fairly rule on it.

Doggydupes were only available in one way, and that was by players exploiting the system and creating them.

Do you see the difference?

 

[Smoot]

Non-vendorable items are sold in the rares collectors forum? Since when? In case anyone is still mystified, the dupe detection for vendors does not work on Event Items / Server births.

And lets be honest, you werent just banned for post a doggydupe item. If you are going to bring that up, you might as well tell the whole story, no offense.

This is a dead topic. but to clarify, yes non vendorable items are sold on this forum. I sold a slime dyed hat of the magi that had become non-vendorable after being transferred to Pacific raresfest (priced accordingly) and know several respected collectors that have bought and sold non-vendorable rares here. I doubt those were dupes tho. everyone knows the non-vendorable transfer bug.

On the other hand, known massive dupes are sold here regularly. The sphinx is a prime example. that was a horrible dupe, im not going to get into details but alot of rubble fire and imbuing regs also came out of that dupe.
Europa / Tangle cloth has also been sold here in mass. Especially before people realized the extent to which more had come into the market (much like the sphinx)
Im not even going to touch upon 2 story statues.

Point is, this is a dead thread. The current rares forum moderator was greatly effected by the most horrible time in uo duping history and doggy dupes serve as a whipping boy for how all questionable/artifically created rares should be treated. Everyone knows theres tons of other "fake" "duped" "illegal" non-spawning "rares" but currently doggy dupes are the only ones actually serving as that reminder.

 

[Orich]

How can it be proven that an item was given to you by an "EM Friend"? It cant, thus we cant fairly rule on it.

Doggydupes were only available in one way, and that was by players exploiting the system and creating them.

Do you see the difference?

Why are we subjecting the Rares Forum on a Community Board to some stringent Court of Law paradigm? If you obtained an item that no one else can or had the chance to obtain -- that item should be held in the same contempt as a bunch of items that were duped, should it not? Both are a form game exploitation.

If you're going to be so righteous, you can't have it both ways.

The point is -- this isn't a criminal case in a court of law. So your opinion is that Glacial Items are b.s., fine ... But if I post one, I shouldn't be banned for it. I am a member of the community, and I strive for the betterment of the community. I am not here to make a profit or condone dupers. I hate dupers, I hate thieves and scammers. But alas, the items are legal and a part of the marketplace.

 

[Orich]

Again, you werent just banned for posting a doggydupe. You got banned for ignoring the warnings/going around the ban by hopping on another account.

You are confusing me with someone else. And again, I'm not entirely sure how you even know about that?

Perhaps the Stratics privacy policy is not being enforced as strictly as the Rares Forum items policy?

 

[Lord Nabin]

Someone asked me for my two cents on this.

I already provided it on post 36

In addition

I feel Doggie Dupes should stay banned.

When alt or multiple stratics accounts are found they should all be banned on the spot. There is no good reason what so ever for an alt. Ever. Period End of Story. Amen.

What makes this community grow and thrive is the trust between its members. I disagree with the statements that the community is shrinking. I see many new collectors. That is part of why I have felt it was time to release some parts of my collections at this time.

Things that lead to distrust like alt accounts have no place here.

 

[Tazar]

I wasn't aware duped items are ONLY disallowed on the rares forum, so touché.

My personal ban had nothing to do with this circumstance -- although I have been warned before (hence the reprimand comment).

My friend, however, was banned entirely because of the glacial-item issue.

I'm not entirely sure how you know what I was banned for to begin with.

Please note that duped items are not allowed for sale on any UO Stratics Forums. There is a sticky post detailing the rules on every trade forum. Please review it and afterwards if there are any questions, please let me know and I will be happy to assist with information, reasons, etc.

 

[Assia Penryn]

The original topic had nothing to do with doggy dupe items. It had to with the posting of high-end items that still were obtainable such as ruined paintings, slithers, etc.

Dog dupes should never be allowed for sale here or any stratics forum. Unlike other "dupes", there is no possibility that they are a real item. The vendor method is still buggy and not a definite way to tell whether something is "real or not" -- in my opinion.

 

[Scribbles]

Just so everyone is clear on what they are actually talking about. Free Speech. I can see why moderators and admins would want to censor/ban certain topics however i dont think it helps anyone in doing so.

1. Moderators/admins lose insight on what is actually going on with the game they support.

2. It allows for black market to exist where none should exist.

3. It allows "scammers" multiple fronts to hide in.

4. Creates confusion to noobie players on what they can post thereby deterring them from making a post at all.

5. It creates bickering/fighting among players on what is "legal" to post.

6. Creates way more work for moderators and admins to manage such fighting.

7. stratics itself loses out on viewership and members as players have to post somewhere else.

8. Allows for non affiliated websites to prosper.

9. If items are not being deleted in game then they shouldnt be deleted on forums that represent the game.



In the end my personal opinion is that

1. cash items should be allowed back

2. The forums shouldnt hide anything that is going on regardless of its existence.

3. By the true definition of "rare' anything hard to obtain is rare and thereby should be allowed in the Rares forums.

 

[Smoot]

Please note that duped items are not allowed for sale on any UO Stratics Forums. There is a sticky post detailing the rules on every trade forum. Please review it and afterwards if there are any questions, please let me know and I will be happy to assist with information, reasons, etc.

Copied from trade forum sticky:
"E. Unallowed/Illegal Items
Please do not sell any of the following items on our forums:

• Duped Items (past or present)
• Items from any Current Exploit
• Any item listed currently Here on uo.com"

This is what it says on the sticky. according to this sticky, "doggy dupes" which were from a past exploit (not true dupes as exact item was not created) are allowed for sale in the trade forum.
If peoples posts are being taken down for doggy dupe items in the traders hall, the sticky should probably be clarified as from the current wording doggy dupes (past exploit items) are fine.

That being said, so much is duped in uo that the guidelines are of course vague and left to interpretation on a case by case basis for the most part.
Thankyou to the dedicated moderators for undertaking that grueling task

 

[Tazar]

Copied from trade forum sticky:
E. Unallowed/Illegal Items
Please do not sell any of the following items on our forums:

• Duped Items (past or present)
• Items from any Current Exploit
• Any item listed currently Here on uo.com

This is what it says on the sticky. according to this sticky, "doggy dupes" which were from a past exploit (not true dupes as exact item was not created) are allowed for sale in the trade forum.
If peoples posts are being taken down for doggy dupe items in the traders forum, the sticky should probably be clarified as from the current wording doggy dupes (past exploit items) are fine.

That being said, so much is duped in uo that the guidelines are of course vague and left to interpretation on a case by case basis for the most part.
Thankyou to the dedicated moderators for undertaking that grueling task

So... the item was duped via a past exploit and yes - they are not allowed. It is not an easy job which is why so many are left on the forums that are 99% probably a dupe... but a few cases like the doggy duped items are 100% certain so those we act on.

 

[Smoot]

So... the item was duped via a past exploit and yes - they are not allowed. It is not an easy job which is why so many are left on the forums that are 99% probably a dupe... but a few cases like the doggy duped items are 100% certain so those we act on.

Thats what im saying tho. i know i myself am on stratics all the time, and this is the first time i heard doggy dupes arent allowed. Saying more clarification should be made if doggy dupes really arent allowed, as they werent a true dupe, but rather an exploit. Theyre for sale all the time on the trade forum. i never new they were considered an actual dupe, im sure if i was confused by this newcomers are sure to be.
Maybe add some pics or something

Oh and i agree with scribbles personally, if its not deleted in game, it should be allowed for sale on at least one of the forums. im not the one to decide that tho.
I vote just delete all doggy dupe items. i remember when alot of it was deleted, id say they got about half of what was out there around 2005

 

[Tazar]

Just so everyone is clear on what they are actually talking about. Free Speech. I can see why moderators and admins would want to censor/ban certain topics however i dont think it helps anyone in doing so.

1. Moderators/admins lose insight on what is actually going on with the game they support.

2. It allows for black market to exist where none should exist.

3. It allows "scammers" multiple fronts to hide in.

4. Creates confusion to noobie players on what they can post thereby deterring them from making a post at all.

5. It creates bickering/fighting among players on what is "legal" to post.

6. Creates way more work for moderators and admins to manage such fighting.

7. stratics itself loses out on viewership and members as players have to post somewhere else.

8. Allows for non affiliated websites to prosper.

9. If items are not being deleted in game then they shouldnt be deleted on forums that represent the game.



In the end my personal opinion is that

1. cash items should be allowed back

2. The forums shouldnt hide anything that is going on regardless of its existence.

3. By the true definition of "rare' anything hard to obtain is rare and thereby should be allowed in the Rares forums.

I think you need to check your 1st amendment rights on Free Speech. It is there to protect you from actions by the Government and not a private forum where you agreed to a Terms of Service and Rules of Conduct when you registered for the forums.

As to the rest - allowing Cash Items on Stratics would be a violation of our fansite agreement with UO and would mean we lose the Developer Interaction and other benefits of the program. We are not willing to risk that relationship. Please keep in mind that Cash Sales are not allowed under the UO Terms of Service and those that do it are violating your agreement with UO.

As to not hiding anything - you want us to allow posts about dupe methods? Hacks? Scripting? Other illegal items? Wow. If that is the case, then I think Stratics is not the place for you. We are a fansite and that means that we support the games that we play and we support the community and the Developers.

And for you definition of rare - where do you draw the line then? Is the level 12 ruined painting rare? Is the level 9? Is a 14th year veteran reward? Is a 5th year? There has to be a line somewhere or there'd be a single trade forum and the rares collectors would have to sort through hundreds of posts to find that one rare item. As things stand - the rare definition is very simple. Is the item obtainable through current game play or not? and is the item an obvious dupe or not? Those two are the big deciding factors so it is about as simple as I think it can be made.

For the other things about black markets, etc - this is the nature of having rules and these rules mirror the UO Rules (combined with the rules of the other games that we support). Our banning of certain topics, etc is to enforce the rules of the game. Stratics has been the "Official Forums for UO" in the past because we abide by these rules and enforce them on the forums. We strive to keep that same high standard.

 

[Scribbles]

@Tazar the thread asked for our opinions. I gave mine. I appreciate all the work you do but please watch your tone. Sarcastic and arrogant are not tones i would expect from a moderator.

Thank you for your time again.

 

[Tazar]

@Tazar the thread asked for our opinions. I gave mine. I appreciate all the work you do but please watch your tone. Sarcastic and arrogant are not tones i would expect from a moderator.

Thank you for your time again.

My words were not intended to be sarcastic or arrogant - but instead informative as to why our policies are set the way that they are. Sorry if they came across that way to you. I've often heard that it's not what you say... or even how you sayi it that matters... it's how the listener decides to take it. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder - or the listener as the case may be.

 

[Scribbles]

@Tazar I love you too.

 

[Flutter]

I am going to post my opinion. This is not the opinion of stratics or any of it's moderators, owners, or users. Just mine.
Persons posting "illegal" (ie: DUPED) items of any kind should be simply reminded and asked to remove their post. If they then REFUSE the warning should be given and the entire post removed.
If they edit their post to remove the offending item, be it glacial pants or whatever, the post should be allowed to remain and the poster should not have any marks on his or her account.
This should be the case unless the poster actually becomes a real nuisance posting so often (weekly) that it makes a moderator have to babysit them. No one should get "banned" for such silliness. Especially when people dress their vendors at raresfest in these items and @Mesanna is standing right there enjoying the view.

 

[Smoot]

I dont think much has to be done, or could be done, to make this forum better than it is. There are tons and tons of "rares" now, and the integrity of the forum rests on the players, and the moderators. if we didnt have such dedicated moderators some adjustments might have to be done.

I do believe we are at a point in uo where "rare" needs to be redefined.
The Following are areas i believe need definition.

Spawning vrs non spawning - I dont want to get into whether or not spawning items should be allowed, but something to consider if they were allowed would be spawn rate, like slithers are relatively common compared to the spawnrate of blaze Cu. If shame loot were to be considered for sale here i would only allow legendary (i would rather Not to have shame loot sold here)

Prepatch - there was a recent patch - so now All armor up until a few weeks ago that had been enhanced is technically "rare" Prepatch items are something that should be looked at, with the goal being if they are allowed for sale here it is defined what is allowed and what isnt.

UO store items - this is a major one that needs definition. They are often sold as "rares" especially if they are only available from Japanese promotions. Is current sale considered "spawning" No longer sold considered "non - spawning?" Personally i would like the general rule to be no UO store items.

Highly Duped items / exploit items - Like Europa gold cloth, stackable exploit, doggy dupe (only one disallowed currently)


Lastly i would like to add that another forum would be wonderful for all those items that fall out of the rares classification, and are more deco / collector oriented than utilitarian.
The Traders Hall forum could be done away with, and split into 2 parts "Utilitarian" - armor, jewels, weapons, pets, houses, consumables and "Novelty" - consisting of basically "things without stats" not "useful" gameplay wise but desirable. It would include things like non-rare deco (some of which is relatively high end) disallowed items that previously would have been in the rares forum, vet rewards, and whatever else the moderators decide.

I agree with myself from a year ago. although there has still been no updated definition of what is a "rare" in regards to prepatch and uo store items which i find unfortunate. apparently many (including myself) could use clarification on when an item reaches "banned from stratics" status. i hope i dont get banned for selling a sphinx or 2 story statue but now im not sure!

 

[Flutter]

I agree with myself from a year ago. although there has still been no updated definition of what is a "rare" in regards to prepatch and uo store items which i find unfortunate. apparently many (including myself) could use clarification on when an item reaches "banned from stratics" status. i hope i dont get banned for selling a sphinx or 2 story statue but now im not sure!

Or singing balls, or "non replica" sashes/cloaks/robes, or imbuing ingredients, or anything else.

 

[Promathia]

I think some people are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

[Dregg]

*ponders checking archives for other threads that would be fun to put back on the front page* LOL

 

[Flutter]

*ponders checking archives for other threads that would be fun to put back on the front page* LOL

Behave.

 

[Dregg]

Miss

Behave.

 

[LoneWolf/Montaj]

Of course, one can go with the old saying, tried and true,

"if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
If anything, a division in forums could mean a division in followers at some point, Or discouraging new collectors, like someone said, to post for fear of them getting a backlashing because it should have been on the "Other" forum

Why not deal with posts on a "Case-by-Case" basis. That way no one is scratching their head on where "what" should go.

Being new to this forum, I have noticed that this is pretty much a tight knit community, almost like a family. In other words, everyone digs in to give their own definition of "Checks & Balances". You are all moderators to an extent and will voice when needed.

Isn't that great? everyone has a say, and no one gets their feeling hurt.

Bringing up Norrington's example of a Shame drop is perfect. Just decide then...hindsight isn't always 20/20

Lone

 

[Tazar]

I agree with myself from a year ago. although there has still been no updated definition of what is a "rare" in regards to prepatch and uo store items which i find unfortunate. apparently many (including myself) could use clarification on when an item reaches "banned from stratics" status. i hope i dont get banned for selling a sphinx or 2 story statue but now im not sure!

The "What Belongs Here" thread by Tomas Bryce stickied at the top of the forum does about the best job of it that I have seen. On the Sphinx - we all know it's been duped in quantity, but there was an original item so we let them stay since we do not know for sure if the one for sale was duped or not. On the Glacial Clothing, etc - there never was an original one - they are all the result of an exploit/dupe so those are not allowed and are removed. One way to tell on newer items (and a few Glacial Items) is whether or not the item has a special name instead of just a special color. A Glacial Spellbook that says "A Frost-Giant's Spellbook" would be allowed as it is obviously an EM type drop from the special name.

You won't ever get a ban just from posting a single illegal item (unless you've been really bad before). Typically it depends on your posting history as to the type of action taken. If there is a history of the same issue - or a history of "post it and see if I can get away with it" multiple times, then yes - infractions will probably be issued... enough infractions and a ban is automatically given by the Forum system.

I know that's not clear-cut, but hopefully it will help. There's so many items that there's really no way we can document them all... and even if we could there are so many that we can't reasonably expect every forum member to check every item against the item list for each and every item they list to buy or sell. If you are unsure, feel free to ask me via PM. I'd rather answer questions than issue infractions.. but be reasonable and only ask about the stuff you are really in doubt on. Keep in mind that I am only one person and if you flood my inbox it may take me a while to catch up. Also - there are some forum members around who have been around a long time and should know pretty well what is allowed and what is not.

Also - keep in mind that just because someone said "It's legal now" or "Mesanna said it is legal" doesn't necessarily mean that it is... they may just be trying to push past your doubts to sell an item. Also - Stratics and UO are separate entities and what is legal there may or may not be allowed here.

 

[Lord Nabin]

Well now that we got that all settled...

Everyone head on over to Starbucks for a free Latte.

They are on the house just show your official Rares Community Membership card. Or buy a Guildstone.


Oh and we can all wave as the Fake Nabin runs by. You can shake your Starbucks cup at him to as he can get in to buy one. (Banned)

 

[Orich]

I think some people are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

I think that's a cop out from a real debate.

This website is marketed as a community forum. Run by the community, for the community. Furthermore, the demographic of the community is old! We aren't a bunch of kids playing modern warfare. The vast majority of us are 30+ , and yet this community forum can sometimes feel draconian in its enforcement of fairly petty (in my opinion) policy (in the context of glacial items, mind you).

My time on Stratics, these days, is spent in fear. Perhaps not the trembling variety, but certainly disconcerting. If it wasn't a necessity for trade, I probably wouldn't come here at all at this point. If I am not perfectly versed in all the idiosyncrasies of the forum rules here, I will gain more infraction points and be permanently banned.

I've literally resorted to consulting with forum moderators on anything that might be in the vicinity of questionable at this point. I'm an adult, and a very active and responsible member of this community ... why am I made to feel like some adolescent that doesn't know better -- forever flinching at the ban hammer awaiting me?

I am not debating for the sake of debate. Contrary to how it may seem, I don't feel my time is best profited by devoting so much energy to this. I just feel it's so unduely strict, and utterly unjust. So at the very real risk of permanent ban, I proceed to argue for what I think is right.

Whether or not you and the others feel the items should be allowed in the rares forum -- perhaps we should change the question. Do you feel that forum rule should be enforced with the same acerbity as, say, the "personal attacks" rule? If I make a personal attack on someone and am reprimanded, then a week later accidentally post a glacial item for sale -- should I be banned? Are these equal offenses in need of punishment?

With that, unless there is a compelling argument, I'll make this my last word.


EDIT:

Also - keep in mind that just because someone said "It's legal now" or "Mesanna said it is legal" doesn't necessarily mean that it is... they may just be trying to push past your doubts to sell an item. Also - Stratics and UO are separate entities and what is legal there may or may not be allowed here.

I was told the spirit of these rules is to avoid infringing on the Fan Site agreement. If, hypothetically, Mesanna deemed these items "legal" -- why on earth would Stratics continue to enforce their illegality?

 

[Tazar]

I was told the spirit of these rules is to avoid infringing on the Fan Site agreement. If, hypothetically, Mesanna deemed these items "legal" -- why on earth would Stratics continue to enforce their illegality?

Once upon a time, UO had a "Secure Account Transfer" program and facilitated the sales of account. More recently when the new Master Account system was introduced, selling accounts became a violation of the UO Terms of Service. If for example, UO were to approve the sale of accounts again - I doubt that Stratics would allow the sales threads to be posted. Why? Because it is too easy for the old owner to reclaim the account through Customer Service which would leave scam accusations, etc all over the forums and also leave the moderators a lot more work to do. In addition, many instances of Identity theft occur when the former owner's personal info is left on the account management page, and "friended/co-owned" houses are sometimes cleaned out when the seller forgets to unfriend them for other houses - or forgets to tell other friends that they sold the account. I don't think we want to facilitate the scams that can arise from this situation - nor do I think we want to deal with the side effects on the forums if it is allowed.

Another possible issue is that Stratics covers multiple games and not just UO. To keep the forum rules consistent, we have to set up the Rules of Conduct to cover all games or our Staff would go nuts trying to keep track of the differences from game to game.

 

[Smoot]

On the Glacial Clothing, etc - there never was an original one - they are all the result of an exploit/dupe so those are not allowed and are removed. One way to tell on newer items (and a few Glacial Items) is whether or not the item has a special name instead of just a special color. A Glacial Spellbook that says "A Frost-Giant's Spellbook" would be allowed as it is obviously an EM type drop from the special name.

I know most the glacial, (pickaxe, dagger, bandanna, pants, war mace, wont count lantern because that wasnt doggy dupe) came from original items of a different title. like the dagger was "an ice shard" i think.
Pretty sure glacial spellbook was Not a titled item tho. it was just a 1/1 "spellbook" maybe an expert can confirm.

I know no one really cares about this stuff, in the end its just a game forum. But its extremely confusing for a newcomer. especially with the array of dyes we have now. Like the doggy dupe white sword, which was originally from "sword of justice" i think. you could make same sword for a few months using tokuna dye. before it was changed to only dye artifacts / majic items.

oh well. dupes suck. it was 10 years ago. alot of people dont remember and alot of people are very firm to their convictions. i dont blame any of them.

 

[Scribbles]

Funny how we can talk about all of these things in this forum but we cant do any of them. These things exist, why would we try not only hide them but shun them blindly at the same time.

Im not at all blaming the staff, just the awkward situation they are put in everyday.

 

[Nails Warstein]

Probably not, but hopefully Broadsword can help revisit the restrictions imposed on Stratics for being UO's fansite. I for one welcome change, but this topic among many others are well like unfortunately.

 

[Scribbles]

 

[Promathia]

My time on Stratics, these days, is spent in fear.

l
o
l


Don't we have any standards anymore as players? Items we know, 100% are dupes, items that only existed on NPCs or as named event items get their appearance duped by players to ludicrous numbers. Just because it was the past, means we can just forget about it eh? Sure guys, go dupe, after awhile we here will just forget about it and continue buying and selling them.

Items picked up at events are legit, the items weren't locked down, players took them. Its the same thing as a Serverbirth, unless you seem to think those were intended. Accident items are far different than mass duping.

As for any other duped Event Item, we can never know which ones are the "real" ones or the "fake" ones. There is just absolutely NO WAY to police that. If someone was selling their Shroud of Tal'keesh, how could any of us know if it was real or not? Should we persecute the people with real ones?

Dupe detection is buggy, and never worked from day 1 on Event items or serverbirths. The whole non-vendorable thing is also a proven bug associated with transfers. So again, how can you know based on those shakey facts?


Dog Dupes can be distinguished 100% of the time. You can NEVER confuse a dog dupe with its real counterpart. They lost their name in the process of being dog duped, and some of them (IE Glacial Pants) did not even exist ingame except for on an NPC. They are purely CREATED items via exploit. People didn't just come "pick" it up because it was accidentally unlocked. They went through a very detailed process to "duping" the item.

I don't care if people own them, hell my own vendor is wearing some of them. Let Stratics have people able to post it in the regular trade forums for all I care. But lets not soil the "Rares Collecting" name even further than we do, by adding even more dupes, especially since they are ones that can never ever be confused for legit.


I dont agree with how Stratics moderates things, nor with how harsh they are, but the topic has nothing to do with that. So lets stop making it "Stratics scares me, Im afraid ill be banned by the zealous Stratics staff". Again, that's not the topic, and doggy dupes being blacklisted was a COMMUNITY decision, not an overbearing Stratics decision.

 

[THP]

True Holiday collectable sets are were its at....[end]

 

[Orich]

l
o
l

If you're going to be condescending, at least honor the full context of the quote.

Don't we have any standards anymore as players? Items we know, 100% are dupes, items that only existed on NPCs or as named event items get their appearance duped by players to ludicrous numbers. Just because it was the past, means we can just forget about it eh? Sure guys, go dupe, after awhile we here will just forget about it and continue buying and selling them.

Oh please, as though anyone owning or selling a glacial item is condoning duping. They are an active part of the marketplace, they aren't sold in alley ways or on street corners.

Items picked up at events are legit, the items weren't locked down, players took them. Its the same thing as a Serverbirth, unless you seem to think those were intended. Accident items are far different than mass duping.

There seem to be a whole lot of "accidents" that have, ironically, only benefited the most known of players. There is a stench of hypocracy here that we could do without.

As for any other duped Event Item, we can never know which ones are the "real" ones or the "fake" ones. There is just absolutely NO WAY to police that. If someone was selling their Shroud of Tal'keesh, how could any of us know if it was real or not? Should we persecute the people with real ones?

Dupe detection is buggy, and never worked from day 1 on Event items or serverbirths. The whole non-vendorable thing is also a proven bug associated with transfers. So again, how can you know based on those shakey facts?

Dog Dupes can be distinguished 100% of the time. You can NEVER confuse a dog dupe with its real counterpart. They lost their name in the process of being dog duped, and some of them (IE Glacial Pants) did not even exist ingame except for on an NPC. They are purely CREATED items via exploit. People didn't just come "pick" it up because it was accidentally unlocked. They went through a very detailed process to "duping" the item.

I don't care if people own them, hell my own vendor is wearing some of them. Let Stratics have people able to post it in the regular trade forums for all I care. But lets not soil the "Rares Collecting" name even further than we do, by adding even more dupes, especially since they are ones that can never ever be confused for legit.

I don't know how you validate your staunch purist and traditionalism in the rares forum? You own the items, you display them publicly, and yet you are staunchly against their trade on the rares forum, despite the fact that they are rare in the first place? It's like picketing a gay marriage after a wonderful date-night with your boyfriend.

Furthermore, you also own items that no one else could have, or would have gotten without being born as you. Now I have no reason to accuse you of being a part of EM/GM corruption , but I do find it very hard to believe that all the items that come from situations like these are all just "accidental", especially considering the community positions that the entirety of the recipients hold. I never see "Joe UO Player" in original possession of these items .. it's typically the "elite" of collectors that get them to begin with.

As far as all this dupe hate -- let's be real here -- there is a system, in place, to detect and "flag" (non-vendorable) a duplicated item at creation-time. That same system, however, does not delete the duplicated item upon creation. That is a CONSCIOUS DECISION by the development team regarding these heretical bug-created items.

It would take me an hour, with plenty of time for a bathroom break and an episode of Seinfeld, to code an adequate dupe detection and removal system. Let's stop pretending like dupes are some wicked act of only the blackest magic.

I dont agree with how Stratics moderates things, nor with how harsh they are, but the topic has nothing to do with that. So lets stop making it "Stratics scares me, Im afraid ill be banned by the zealous Stratics staff". Again, that's not the topic, and doggy dupes being blacklisted was a COMMUNITY decision, not an overbearing Stratics decision.

That -IS- part of the topic. These items you are so intent on keeping illegal are punishable by bans. How is that not a relevant topic?

If my friend wasn't banned for posting the item (albeit, multiple times -- but he really did it innocently, one was a sale, the other a solicitation to buy) , this entire conversation would be moot.

If it was a community decision, let the community self-police itself (per Nails Warstein's post from last year).

 

[Tazar]

If it was a community decision, let the community self-police itself (per Nails Warstein's post from last year).

I am not sure what Nails posted last year... but the community does self-police. That's why there is a post report button and why moderators act on the post reports. There is no way that I can possibly read each and every post made on the Stratics forums and still have a job, a life, and actually get to play UO. Those warnings and infractions that are given out are, more often than not, from your fellow forum members using that report button. Moderators do occasionally find issues as well as we do our own forum reading, but we are fellow forum members too.

I think this one has gone it's course and is heading to more issues... honestly even the revival of the thread could have been considered "discussing moderator actions" which is not allowed. Best to lock it now.