Calling All Community! Be A Part Of The Rule Making Process!

[Athelas]

Greetings fellow Collectors! Recently Assia posted a thread asking all of you what you thought about the Rares Forum going 100% Rare Items only. We'd like to come up with a set in stone rule here on the forum. This is your chance to voice your opinions and really have your say!

Traditionally, at least as long as I've been a mod, the loose rule was sales or auctions had to be mostly rare oriented, but it was ok to have a couple of non rares thrown into the mix. What we'd like to know is how you all, as a community, feel about this. Would you prefer the Rares Forum become 100% Rare? There are plenty of trade forums that can handle the average stuff. Regardless of the decision the Rares Forum will always be a place for rares, we just want to know what you guys think. After all, its your forum!

I genuinely want to know what everyone thinks about this! Don't be afraid to speak your mind. In any case I'll bother each and every one of you till you post, so you may as well just go ahead and do it anyway!

Thanks!

-Ath

 

[DJAd]

Would you prefer the Rares Forum become 100% Rare? There are plenty of trade forums that can handle the average stuff.

Firstly there needs to be a clear determination of what exactly a "rare" is. Something that no longer spawns? server birth? or hard to get items?

I think many people post "non rares" in the rares collector section just for the amount of views and wider exposure.

I used to use the shard trade sections but found I didn't get as many replies as if I posted in the traders hall section then just listed the shard they were on.

Maybe different sections to sell items. Section for EM event drops, server births etc.

If someone posts something in the wrong section then the mods can simply move it to the correct one.

 

[Athelas]

Non spawning is the general way of going about it. Hard to get items aren't rare enough and end up in the trade forums.

 

[Ron Silverbeard]

I think its simple
All items not spawn anymore = rare
Everything else, depends on 2 section: rare spawn/drop/hard to get items
Event items should be in a seperate section

 

[Captn Norrington]

Personally I think there should be some minor exceptions to that rule, for example: a weapon from shame with insanely high stats worth hundreds of millions, that item technically would not qualify as a rare because its possible one may spawn again, but yet is very valuable and would have tons of bids. an exception for discussion posts would be nice too, the more discussions the better, even if they aren't about a rare.

 

[Lord Gareth]

........ Would you prefer the Rares Forum become 100% Rare? There are plenty of trade forums that can handle the average stuff..........

Define Non Spawning Rare Item

 

[DJAd]

Does that mean old gifts are considered rares then? Harpsichords, festive trees etc? These don't spawn anymore

 

[WootSauce]

Event items should be in a seperate section

No.

 

[Decadence]

No.

Agreed, why should event items be in a seperate section than rares? I don't want to have to check multiple sections and miss items. Event items are mostly rare. I am strongly opposes to this!

I also don't have a problem with a list of items that include some non rares if 80-90% of the list are rares. I don't see a harm in it, I think if that much of the list is interesting to our readers, we are just getting anal if we move the entire list for a few slipped in items.

I have said it before, and I will say it again. Any item aka blaze cu, that someone is willing to pay 600m + for is for all intent and purposes, rare. I think, if it is generally an item that someone knows is highly sought after, and will run in the high prices, they should be able to drop it in the area where (generally) people have the most to spend. This includes thise massively expensive weapons. This is a community, and all these rules get overbearing and a turn off for those nervous to enter "our domain" and to add others to our community. If you think people will start adding junk if we let in big item spawning rares in, say someone posts what they think is an awesome weapon, and its junk, we can just gently tell that person that it is junk, it is no difference than the many questions we get so often asking "is this rare?" Obviously if someone continues annoying us, with "junk" a gentle post elsewhere should suffice, and if it continues, harsher instructions.

My two cents,
Deca,

PS. I typed this on my phone half asleep, so I apologize fo incoherent ramblings riddled with typos and grammatical errors... Thanks ^_^

 

[Decadence]

Also, I wish again to emphasize that I am opposed to a seperate section for event items. We have enought people who come in here not knowing anything about rares, where they came from, let alone whether or not they were an event item or not. Putting another section will just intimidate these people further, as well as just split up a forum that should 't be split up. I don't know too many rare collectors that are not interested in event items, and even if there are, everyone has a nitch. Sometimes being in this community these nitches are even well known, we can predict or even nudge a fellow collector with a link and say "look someone is selling (fill in blank) ... I knew you'd like that! We want to tighten our community, not split it up.

-Deca

 

[Assia Penryn]

Alright, so here' is some more food for thought for all of you to give your input on. I encourage folks to speak up and have their voice heard! Even those who are fairly new to collecting. You are the next generation of us ol' farts.


If items that do spawn ( such as blaze, slither, keeper of truth obsidian statue, tangle, ruined painting, etc) were allowed to be sold here... what is the determining factor? Is there a list of acceptable ones? How is that list determined?

If weapons/armor that can be made currently are allowed, who determines if it is good enough to be considered rare? I have zero knowledge on what constitutes a high-end weapon because I don't play at all with that aspect of the game these days.



We are not talking about dividing this forum. We are simply asking what should be allowed here and what should be moved to the UO Trader's Hall or shard trade forum.
The definition of "rare" we are using for this discussion is everything that no longer spawns, drops or can be made. This includes past event items and EM items.



If many folks are concerned about being flooded with past holiday/gift items, perhaps a rule could be created to limit those to beyond the past or current year or some other solution. Give us ideas if you are concerned.
There are a lot of "rare" holiday/gift items that are considered rares under this definition and are commonly sold here such as holiday statues, tie-dye gift boxes, large icy patch, etc.

Athelas and I have plans to sit down next Saturday with thread and come up with what the final verdict will be. We know no matter what decision is made someone will be upset, but we are trying our best to give the majority of the community what it wants. Having no set rule in place has not been fair to us, nor all of you. It often comes across as we are playing favorites, when that is not our intention. So help us come up with a system that you all would like to see put in place.

 

[Promathia]

Why do we want to change the forum again? To try to further ourselves even more from the rest of the community?

Everything is fine, worry about something else

 

[Assia Penryn]

Why do we want to change the forum again? To try to further ourselves even more from the rest of the community?

Everything is fine, worry about something else

So what system/rules do you perceive is in place right now that you agree with?

Right now, it is basically at the moderator's discretion and as long as the post is mostly "rare" items, we let it stay on the forum. If that is what you agree with and would like to stay in place, please say so!
We just want to make sure we understand each of your opinions!

 

[Promathia]

So what system/rules do you perceive is in place right now that you agree with?

Right now, it is basically at the moderator's discretion and as long as the post is mostly "rare" items, we let it stay on the forum. If that is what you agree with and would like to stay in place, please say so!
We just want to make sure we understand each of your opinions!

Yes, of course. We shouldnt remove someones whole auction/sell thread just because they have a few nonrares sprinkled in. The way everything is separated right now is fine.

 

[Assia Penryn]

Thank you for posting again to clarify, Promathia! We really do appreciate it.

 

[Nails Warstein]

Are the Moderators getting many complaints about what is rare? Why are we addressing this issue? I just want clarification as to why it is necessary. I am not opposed to thoughtful and well reasoned change. I am for anything that makes the moderators jobs easier, but I am am opposed to rules that could get me warnings or needlessly banned for the most well intended posts. I already shared my thoughts on this subject in a previous post, where we already had a vigorous discussion here, before anyone makes a decision, please review and take into account what was already posted here: http://stratics.com/community/threads/non-rares-being-sold-on-rares-fourm.297686

I stated the following, and still stand behind my words:

"Personally I am not a big fan of "zero tolerance" anything unless already specified in the ROC which applies to all members of the Stratics community. When it comes to rare collecting, I think its important to be inclusive instead of exclusive. Beginning collectors can't be afraid to post something because they don't know if something is truly rare or not. I am constantly asked if something is rare by people who find stuff in IDOCs. I understand the concern of a few purists who want to maintain a level of integrity. I just don't think its fair to scrutinize players in any respect over a game. I think is best if the rares forum members police themselves in regards to what is rare or not. Most of us veteran collectors can easily point out whats doggy duped, still spawning, or created by exploitative means. We've done this for what 15 years? If the concern is scams, all we can do is educate players what is genuinely rare or not. To trade safely, promote brokering,not specific brokers. I just want this forum and the game to be fun, not stressful. I am stressed enough."

 

[Assia Penryn]

There have been complaints and concerns, so we are trying to find out what the majority of the community would like to have this forum include. We are taking into account that other thread, but there were only a handful of opinions in that one. These opinions are valuable, but we would like to encourage everyone to have their voice heard and speak up.

For the record to my knowledge I have NEVER popped anyone with an infraction or warning points against their account for posting something that isn't allowed. I've simply moved their post or asked them to edit it with an explanation to them why I am asking them to do so. Now if you are asked to remove something and you ignore a moderator, post it again purposely or go off on a venomous rant, yes you may get in trouble. I always have been a supporter of educating folks over discipline. It works better in the long run and makes my job as a moderator easier. So no need for you or anyone to be stressed about posting something if it is not allowed. If it is not an acceptable item under whatever system is put in place, your stratics account isn't going to be put into jeopardy unless you be an asshat about it when a moderator informs you.

 

[Manticore]

Nothing wrong with the current forum. Leave it alone.

1. You have questions post here and we answer.
2. You post things that don't belong to this thread we report to mods and they take care of it.

Done!

 

[Athelas]

To clarify, we're not talking about breaking the forum up further, no sub forum for each individual type of rare.

What it comes down to is we need to know what you want so we can make whatever that is a rule. If its "keep it the same," than fine, we just need to define what that is. If you want something else, say so.

This is your chance to make a difference

 

[Promathia]

I am really failing to grasp how this is even an issue or something that needs defining.

Rares Collector Forum - No exploits, no dog duped items, no spawning items, no "recent" holiday items

If someone is selling rares and includes some nonrares, then leave it as it is.

A spawning item that sells for greater or equal to 500m should be allowed (AKA things like Blaze Cu's).


Also, when we say, keep things as it is, we dont HAVE to define that, since it already HAS BEEN defined by Thomas.

http://stratics.com/community/threads/what-belongs-on-this-forum.179761/

 

[Nails Warstein]

I would support changes that would return and allow the following activities on the Stratics forums again:

Cash Transactions
Brokering Services
Customer Feedback

I think disallowing these activities creates an underground blackmarket that makes trading unsafe for people in back alley deals, which benefits scammers, and website dealers. Lets bring light back to a dark age in UO. Lets revisit these rules instead. Pretending and ignoring something has not made it go away.

 

[Promathia]

I would support changes that would return and allow the following activities on the Stratics forums again:

Cash Transactions
Brokering Services
Customer Feedback

I think disallowing these activities creates an underground blackmarket that makes trading unsafe for people in back alley deals, which benefits scammers, and website dealers. Lets bring light back to a dark age in UO. Lets revisit these rules instead. Pretending and ignoring something has not made it go away.

I agree 100%.

 

[Petra Fyde]

Cash sales will not be re-instated. sorry.

Allowing such sales on Stratics never made them safe, it just made Stratics an unwitting and unwilling facilitator for the scammer. In addition we have an undertaking with a number of games companies to disallow such trades on our site, Mythic included.

 

[Promathia]

Cash sales will not be re-instated. sorry.

Allowing such sales on Stratics never made them safe, it just made Stratics an unwitting and unwilling facilitator for the scammer. In addition we have an undertaking with a number of games companies to disallow such trades on our site, Mythic included.

It made them SAFER. Nothing is EVER safe, even trading ingame, but the fact remains cash sales still happen, and will always happen. Instead of having a SAFER place to come to, people are now relegated to more anonymous "Blackmarket" type dealings.

Besides, you guys wanted our opinions right?

 

[Laina]

All good the way it is now for me No exploits, no dog duped items, no spawning items, no current holiday items.

I am ok with a few non-rares included with a list of rares for sale. Do I want to see 10 posts titled selling slither or selling the latest greatest weapon? No of course not. But if there was 1 or 2 among several other rares that is fine with me.

I think we need to be flexible and allow people to ask what might or might not be rare and what items are worth. We haven't been flooded by holiday stuff yet - I am not sure why this would change.

Please do not break up the forum between different types of rares - this is too confusing and personally I would be more likely to miss items.

Something I would like to see though would be a stickied list of "trusted" brokers and "trusted" sellers (i.e. a list of people who have had multiple good reviews - this is not meant to be a 100% guarantee fail safe). I believe the holiday trade forum has something like this.

 

[Xug]

I am a seller of event items. I am no collector. I'd like to speak for the probably 30% of people that post here whom do the same thing as myself. I have established a fairly well reputation in the short time I've been doing so. My issue is the "self-appointed" moderators who feel that they have the right to post in anyone's thread just because they were not sold an item, whether it be a rule they missed in an auction, or not even an auction at all. I've seen several of members of this community go into threads and post things such as: "I would no recommend dealing with this person" or "He wants way too much for this item". Although you may be well known to many in this community, this is trolling and defamation. Any other part of Stratics would delete these posts rather than letting them go on and on until being locked. If someone would like to know the fame or character of a seller or buyer they can ICQ or PM one of these "self-appointed" moderators themselves. So to the Real Moderators of these forums, please take fair action as you do in every other part of these boards against these players. Thank you. Xug.

 

[Athelas]

So far the consensus is "keep it as is," which is good for me as I've always liked the system as it is as well.

I am really failing to grasp how this is even an issue or something that needs defining.

Rares Collector Forum - No exploits, no dog duped items, no spawning items, no "recent" holiday items

If someone is selling rares and includes some nonrares, then leave it as it is.

A spawning item that sells for greater or equal to 500m should be allowed (AKA things like Blaze Cu's).


Also, when we say, keep things as it is, we dont HAVE to define that, since it already HAS BEEN defined by Thomas.

http://stratics.com/community/threads/what-belongs-on-this-forum.179761/

I shall help you grasp it Promathia, fear not!

The community has grown so much since my beloved guildmate Tomas crafted "What Belongs On This Forum," and with this growth we've welcomed many non english speaking members. The biggest complaint we receive is just general confusion about what belongs here and WBOTF seems more like a suggestion to some and less of a rule. So we're just making it an official rule.

 

[Smoot]

I dont think much has to be done, or could be done, to make this forum better than it is. There are tons and tons of "rares" now, and the integrity of the forum rests on the players, and the moderators. if we didnt have such dedicated moderators some adjustments might have to be done.

I do believe we are at a point in uo where "rare" needs to be redefined.
The Following are areas i believe need definition.

Spawning vrs non spawning - I dont want to get into whether or not spawning items should be allowed, but something to consider if they were allowed would be spawn rate, like slithers are relatively common compared to the spawnrate of blaze Cu. If shame loot were to be considered for sale here i would only allow legendary (i would rather Not to have shame loot sold here)

Prepatch - there was a recent patch - so now All armor up until a few weeks ago that had been enhanced is technically "rare" Prepatch items are something that should be looked at, with the goal being if they are allowed for sale here it is defined what is allowed and what isnt.

UO store items - this is a major one that needs definition. They are often sold as "rares" especially if they are only available from Japanese promotions. Is current sale considered "spawning" No longer sold considered "non - spawning?" Personally i would like the general rule to be no UO store items.

Highly Duped items / exploit items - Like Europa gold cloth, stackable exploit, doggy dupe (only one disallowed currently)


Lastly i would like to add that another forum would be wonderful for all those items that fall out of the rares classification, and are more deco / collector oriented than utilitarian.
The Traders Hall forum could be done away with, and split into 2 parts "Utilitarian" - armor, jewels, weapons, pets, houses, consumables and "Novelty" - consisting of basically "things without stats" not "useful" gameplay wise but desirable. It would include things like non-rare deco (some of which is relatively high end) disallowed items that previously would have been in the rares forum, vet rewards, and whatever else the moderators decide.

 

[Apetul]

I like the forum as it is now.

I dont want that currently spawning items gets added into this forum, ie, shame/wrong/cove loot.

About doggy exploited items (ethereal clothing, glacial spellbook & weaps) i dont see why those shouldnt be for sale here. Alot of vendors on each rares fest does sell these items, that means collectors does buy and sell these items quite regularly. In fact, alot of collectors does wear that kind of stuff. Ok maybe not ethereal because there was a post on uohall some time ago about being illegal.
If the mods prefer to not allow the doggy exploited items, then ALL the other items created via exploit shouldnt be allowed and i'll list a few that I remember are being stocked regularly on rares fest:

"Green" cloth pieces (you had to craft cloth pieces and select barbed leather to create'em)
europa gold cloth pieces
statues/lanterns/whatever stucked in a box
green/blaze/other-colored ingots without names
html runebooks/bracelets
Sigil dyed items

But again, these kind of stuff does sell ALOT on rares fest.

 

[Assia Penryn]

I am a seller of event items. I am no collector. I'd like to speak for the probably 30% of people that post here whom do the same thing as myself. I have established a fairly well reputation in the short time I've been doing so. My issue is the "self-appointed" moderators who feel that they have the right to post in anyone's thread just because they were not sold an item, whether it be a rule they missed in an auction, or not even an auction at all. I've seen several of members of this community go into threads and post things such as: "I would no recommend dealing with this person" or "He wants way too much for this item". Although you may be well known to many in this community, this is trolling and defamation. Any other part of Stratics would delete these posts rather than letting them go on and on until being locked. If someone would like to know the fame or character of a seller or buyer they can ICQ or PM one of these "self-appointed" moderators themselves. So to the Real Moderators of these forums, please take fair action as you do in every other part of these boards against these players. Thank you. Xug.

If you see a post you feel breaks the rules, please report it via the forum. Sometimes we miss posts or sometimes we don't see posts as a problem when maybe to the offending party they are. We have quite a number of fairly opinionated people in here and at times people are going to be rubbed the wrong way and words will be misinterpreted or taken in a manner in which they are not intended. It is only recently in the history of humanity that we have social interaction in which we do not have the visual or auditory clues to help us determine the intentions and or demeanor of our fellow people. Sometimes they are being jerks. Sometimes it is just a miscommunication. As moderators, we do the best we can. If you or anyone else have the time to volunteer, I'd urge you to apply to be a moderator and give it a shot. You probably won't be added on to the rares forum to start, but who knows what the future holds. As I tell folks via PM when they are upset with my decisions... if you feel I am not performing my job as a moderator, please report it to the admins and they will be happy to review my actions. They key is communication. Report problems in any regard. If the admins or us aren't aware of an issue, we can not fix it.

 

[Lord Gareth]

What it comes down to is we need to know what you want so we can make whatever that is a rule.

My first reaction to the thread wasn't a positive one because I thought the moderators were were looking to create regulations and restrictions. After spending the day thinking about it I know that's not the case. Having been a moderator before I will say this. The second most frustrating thing is not having a clear or loose set of guidelines to refer to when moderating your forum and/or working with your counterpart.

The most frustrating and hurtful thing is the lovely private messages you have waiting for you sometimes when you wake up and log on in the morning. I obviously cannot post any of them but they are filled with Very Colorful Words, Accusations, Threats, Bias, and Something About Your Mother. Most of these warm and loving messages stem from not having guidelines written out and posted for people to read.

For me anything posted in the Rares forum that's for sale/trade/auction etc. I am assuming is Rare because the moderators have allowed the item to be posted and I trust their judgement.....if its not then you can bet I will be grabbing my spear and hunting me some AthPen to make moderator soup out of.

So here is my personal Rare item list
* Seer Event Items
* Game Wide Event (Discontinued or Limited Time)
* EM Event Items
* Mesanna Event Items
* Server Birth Items
* Spring Cleanup Items (Discontinued)
* EA/Mythic Contest Prizes
* Special Hue Pets
- Blaze Cu
- Medusa Stone Hue
- Blood Red Imp
- Neon Pink Rabbit
- Dread Warhorse
* Holiday Rare Items
- Europa Gold Harpsichord
- Mesanna Hued Masks / Pumpkins
- Phoenix Armor
- Singing Crystal Ball
- Facial Hair Change Cream Deed
- Special Beard Dye
- Bless Deed
- Seasons Greetings (Green Grey and Red)
- Happy Holidays! (Round Bag)
- a champagne glass (Green)
- You were naughty this year! (Round Bag)
- Maybe next year you will get a nicer gift. (Green Grey and Red)
- Coal (Ore)
- Switches (Kindling)
- Festival of the Grape (Glass Mug)
- Happy Valentine’s Day! (Round Bag)
- a deed for a potted plant (And Potted Plants)
- A Reindeer/A Deed For A Sleigh (By Mesanna)
- An Icy Patch (Circle)
- Gift Boxes (Angel Boxes)
- Conjurer’s Garb (With Luck)
- Halloween Costume
- A freshly Picked Rose From (From Mesanna)
- A 15th Anniversary Cake Decorated By Mesanna
- Poinsettia (Mesanna)
- Infested Tree
- Gift Box (Bright Neon)

 

[Assia Penryn]

The second most frustrating thing is not having a clear or loose set of guidelines to refer to when moderating your forum and/or working with your counterpart.

This is the exact reason we have brought this matter up for discussion. We want to make an official system about what is allowed and what is not allowed because we don't want folks to get mixed messages and or having anyone feel that we acted or didn't act on something because we are biased. It isn't fair to us and it is not fair to everyone on this forum. Athelas and I could have simply said "This is how it is going to be *insert blah blah*"... we are not. We want to engage all of you in this and get a feeling of what you ALL as a community would like this system to be. This forum belongs to you as much as we are able to make it. When we banned doggy dupes, we put a poll up and the majority of people said that they did not want them on the forum. We implemented that. As a player, I have a preference about what system we use. However, as a moderator all I want is a rule to go by so that I can make sure we are consistent to the best of our ability. That is why we are asking for people's opinions here about whether they want this forum only rares or if they want to allow non-rares (see definition in previous posts) in certain situation and under what guidelines. We encourage everyone to participate and let their voices be heard.

 

[Angel Dust]

I think doggie dupe items should be allowed personally. UO has not banned the items and are legal to own. Glacial spellbooks, hued weps, etc are sold and traded all the time, so why not allow folks to add them to a list of auction items here. To most of the people here that say no, then answer why you would buy or own such items in your collection then?

 

[Athelas]

For me anything posted in the Rares forum that's for sale/trade/auction etc. I am assuming is Rare because the moderators have allowed the item to be posted and I trust their judgement.....if its not then you can bet I will be grabbing my spear and hunting me some AthPen to make moderator soup out of.

Ah Gareth, one of these days I'm going to lock you down on my roof

 

[Athelas]

*burp*

 

[Lord Nabin]

Ah Gareth, one of these days I'm going to lock you down on my roof

Let's just hope he doesn't get duped. One is all we can handle


His remains were everywhere and cost a pretty penny

 

[The Scandinavian]

Hi there,

I do not think there are any need for changes. It works good as it is now.

But I Think that all sales list should include smith items.


I have always thought that the definition of rare is abit strange.
Often people come here and ask if items are rare, they get the answer that they are, but there are so many of them that they are worth 50k.How can that be considered rare?
What I say is that non spawning is not equal to rare, imo that is.

Regards
The Scandinavian

 

[The Scandinavian]

Hi there,

about exploited items.
Europa gold cloth pieces are not exploited.
They come from cut Europa Member of Royal Britannia guard sashes.
But they are duped !
Total amount of cloth should be around 200 pieces maybe.

Regards
The Scandinavian

 

[yanaki2]

MY GOD this again?

ok some may know me as ive been around a very long time collecting and though i took a long vacation from the game(im back muhahahaha) . i read again a post which i have read probably 30 times over the last 7+ years

i have extreamly large collection so much that it now takes over 3 castles just to hold it all.and ive purchased items from this forum, from fellow collectors and friends of mine over the last 10+ years , i have horded some items such as furs ( over 900+), potted plants(1470+), whispering roses(2000+) as well as over 300 server births and countless event items. but i do not just collect those, my collection is a vash mesh of things and all of them i treasure.

personnaly i places my collection into the following categories :

1. server birth/monthly rares ( i.e open books, marble tables etc.)
2. seer items ( items handed out by seers and the pre em moderators before the new system was in place)
3. glitch items ( items that were in some way brought about due to a fault in programming such as ranger ingots, colored leather etc. this includes doggy dupes and other glitchy ways items were obtained. being able to smelt ranger armor or getting the neon spellbook from a changling were both glitches)
4. old text items ( such as original shipwreak items, as well as the of exceptional quality variations)
5. holiday items (christmass and others from all years)
6. items removed from circulation ( i.e no longer spawning because they have no use anymore such as furs(obtained from skinning llamas, or moonstones etc.)
7. event items (i.e items given out at em events from crude coroded boxes to vine chord sandals from global events to shard specific.)

what i dont consider rares :

1. anything craftable
2. anything that can be currently obtained within the games no matter there rarity.

now if someone posts a sale where the majority of the items are not considered rare, then send them a message , ask them to move it or remove the items that dont belong and have them post those in the apropriate forum.dont ban them and done be jerks about it, we have a very limited population as it is and we dont need to alienate someone.

now as far as for rares fests when i saw the fest organizers splitting up the sellers by the quality of the items it kinda ticked me off, a aria for just the top end items felt a little elitist for my tastes. now i agree if the person is only selling non rares then sure have him in another section but respect that he has activly shown a interest to be in our community as well. again we cannot judge him as we do not know his motivations and as such should t punish or look down upon him/her many fests ago i knew of a gentleman who was a freind of mine who sold quite a few transfer tokens, some higher end doom arties and such at the fest, yes nothing he had was a "rare" in anyones mind but that 300+ mil he made purchased several items that were "rare" at that fests silent and live auctions, and those items reside in his house to this day.

to the moderators :

i know that sometimes , you get complaints about things and feel that you need to take action, i just urge you not to make rash desicions and think things through. yes this is a rares forum but its also a community and how we treat others outside of this community reflects on all of us as a whole.if anything i urge you to take things on by a case by case basis and not a cookie cutter form.yes it may take more time but will be benificial to all of us that way.

to the collectors and people who use this forum:

make the moderators lives easier, dont complain about every little thing.so what if a guy wants to sell his blaze cu or not, or that uber weapon(in his mind).let him do it, maybe post on his thread that it doesnt belong here, be nice.if he doesnt listen then let it go, if he continues to post more threads like that then send the complaint to the moderators and let them deal with it.remember you have the choice of ignoring the post, believe me its not that hard of a thing to do.... i do it all the time when i see a item id like and nearly have a heart attack when i find out what the person wants for it. we play in a strange games where horse dung is worth more then any castle and paintings that are ruined are woth 10,000 times the value of a non ruined one.

and my small rant...


horse dung is rare, which means our horses are suffering a pandemic that no vet has been able to fix....i really feel sorry for all the constipated horses out there...no wonder so many people ride etherial ones, the poor horses just coundnt hang on anymore .... poor horses...

 

[Ron Silverbeard]

Horse dung FTW!!!
hehehehe....

 

[Assia Penryn]

*bumps* Last chance for folks who haven't to give their opinions.

 

[Orich]

The current way things are is good with me except I would make the glacial doggy duped items able to be posted here.

It seems that the VAST majority of the community feels this way, yet some of us are being warned and banned still when we post these items and are unfamiliar with the distinction in the rules.

Can we please get a rule change? Mesanna has personally ok'd these items to multiple collectors.

 

[Orich]

Are the Moderators getting many complaints about what is rare? Why are we addressing this issue? I just want clarification as to why it is necessary. I am not opposed to thoughtful and well reasoned change. I am for anything that makes the moderators jobs easier, but I am am opposed to rules that could get me warnings or needlessly banned for the most well intended posts. I already shared my thoughts on this subject in a previous post, where we already had a vigorous discussion here, before anyone makes a decision, please review and take into account what was already posted here: http://stratics.com/community/threads/non-rares-being-sold-on-rares-fourm.297686

I stated the following, and still stand behind my words:

"Personally I am not a big fan of "zero tolerance" anything unless already specified in the ROC which applies to all members of the Stratics community. When it comes to rare collecting, I think its important to be inclusive instead of exclusive. Beginning collectors can't be afraid to post something because they don't know if something is truly rare or not. I am constantly asked if something is rare by people who find stuff in IDOCs. I understand the concern of a few purists who want to maintain a level of integrity. I just don't think its fair to scrutinize players in any respect over a game. I think is best if the rares forum members police themselves in regards to what is rare or not. Most of us veteran collectors can easily point out whats doggy duped, still spawning, or created by exploitative means. We've done this for what 15 years? If the concern is scams, all we can do is educate players what is genuinely rare or not. To trade safely, promote brokering,not specific brokers. I just want this forum and the game to be fun, not stressful. I am stressed enough."

^ And this

 

[Adeka]

I consider myself a 'newbie' still to this world of online pixel collecting, and here's my few thoughts on this matter.

I have not once seen an item list here, talked about here, or even mentioned here that I thought was wrongly placed. As a matter of fact, I have learned a TON from frequenting these forums.To me changing the forums around could only creates more confusion as to where things are, or should be. Why make more work for yourselves?! I am not a mod, so I don't hear, see, or end up having to deal with the issue brought up by other members here, this is true. But I also don't see threads, or even comments in that regard. I say this forum seems healthy and vibrant, at least through my eyes.

I would love to second Nails proposal to establish a place for feedback. This is where I see rules being enforced strictly. No trash talk, just the facts, ma'am! I have not completed a single transaction with a player for rares that I do not see on these forums in game or otherwise.

I like that feeling of community this place creates, and would like to see that continue to be the case. And at the same time, I would like to know who's sketchy, or heck, even who does value their goodies higher than most. I have a right to know these things without being privy to all the trash talking, right?! We all do. I would say that, for the most part, we all know and have dealt with each other at this point. And we all know those player whom we will not deal with at all, but we don't announce that publicly here. At least as far as I can see. Forgive my naivety on this matter.

I also would like to comment on the segmentation of this forum. I rarely *pun intended * visit the other areas here on stratics, and only because this is the community that I WANT to be part of. I'm a socialite crafter, I don't care much for all of the percentages and such, math and I have not been friends for some time now! That being said, I would hate to see sub forums added only to confuse those new collectors more than they may already be. As I began this rant with the point of my greenness, this is a huge and intimidating world to enter into. I am thankful that this community is so friendly and welcoming (for the most part )!

Thank you everybody

 

[Promathia]

Why is this being brought up again? It doesn't matter if they are ok to own, they shouldn't be listed here on principle. While any other item, you can never be SURE they are dupes, doggy dupes are VERY different. We all know 100% that they ARE duped.

On PRINCIPLE we should be against them being included in the Rares Collector forum. If we just "accept" it, it just encourages people to keep finding these exploits to make items like them.

I know it can never be stopped, people will always find ways to make a profit, but I would think that we could as a small portion of the community could atleast stay firm in our ideals.

 

[whiterabbit]

RULZ BAH
GOBLINS NO LIKE RULZ

 

[Orich]

Why is this being brought up again? It doesn't matter if they are ok to own, they shouldn't be listed here on principle. While any other item, you can never be SURE they are dupes, doggy dupes are VERY different. We all know 100% that they ARE duped.

On PRINCIPLE we should be against them being included in the Rares Collector forum. If we just "accept" it, it just encourages people to keep finding these exploits to make items like them.

I know it can never be stopped, people will always find ways to make a profit, but I would think that we could as a small portion of the community could atleast stay firm in our ideals.

Non-Vendorable items are sold here with impunity, are they not?

The point is, this community is small and shrinking with each passing day. As a new-comer to the rares scene, I find it distasteful that my friends and I get reprimanded and banned from Stratics for trying to trade items that are regularly traded at Rares Fests and spammed on General Chat, AND have been OK'd by Mesanna to own.

If the acceptable items list was more of a guideline than a list of commandments, perhaps a change wouldn't be necessary.

 

[Promathia]

Non-Vendorable items are sold here with impunity, are they not?

The point is, this community is small and shrinking with each passing day. As a new-comer to the rares scene, I find it distasteful that my friends and I get reprimanded and banned from Stratics for trying to trade items that are regularly traded at Rares Fests and spammed on General Chat, AND have been OK'd by Mesanna to own.

If the acceptable items list was more of a guideline than a commandment, perhaps a change wouldn't be necessary.

Non-vendorable items are sold in the rares collectors forum? Since when? In case anyone is still mystified, the dupe detection for vendors does not work on Event Items / Server births.

And lets be honest, you werent just banned for post a doggydupe item. If you are going to bring that up, you might as well tell the whole story, no offense.

 

[Orich]

Non-vendorable items are sold in the rares collectors forum? Since when? In case anyone is still mystified, the dupe detection for vendors does not work on Event Items / Server births.

And lets be honest, you werent just banned for post a doggydupe item. If you are going to bring that up, you might as well tell the whole story, no offense.

I wasn't aware duped items are ONLY disallowed on the rares forum, so touché.

My personal ban had nothing to do with this circumstance -- although I have been warned before (hence the reprimand comment).

My friend, however, was banned entirely because of the glacial-item issue.

I'm not entirely sure how you know what I was banned for to begin with.

 

[whiterabbit]

DOGGIE DUPE??
YOOOS DUPES DOGGIES?
ADOPT , LOTS OB HOMELESS DOGGIES