Arrrrghh!!! Why is it EVERYTHING done to stop scripters benefits them?

[Merlin]

Anything the origin store sold would have the same exact effect on the economy as dumping duped goods in. Rmt sites would just price match origin. Origin, You know the website with 0 Customer service where you can only buy 1 of an item at a time and you get locked out after your 3rd purchase.

Exactly. Atleast the RMT sites are selling items that were obtained in-game and wouldn't be selling new items that just add to the game. This would over-populate certain items, supply would outweigh demand, and then the prices would drop. It would eventually get to the point where people would STOP buying from the UO Store because it would be cheaper to just buy them in-game or from other third party vendors that would price-cut against the UO official store.

 

[Tina Small]

And it will never happen for the many reasons I've stated in previous posts. Just a false threat.

Something that would probably make a dent in RMT sales, at least for a while, is if the IRS would go after (i.e., penalize) people who are not properly or adequately reporting the income they produce from RMT sales, especially if they decided to audit returns going back a few years. Or if Paypal was asked by more companies to cooperate in shutting off third-party sellers who might be violating the intellectual property rights of the game companies.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Oh, I forgot to add, where you can't even purchase certain things for UO if you live in the wrong country.

GEE these would be some of the things fixed if UO did go head to head or do you really think UO/EA Corp itself is that stupid. Please use gray matter before engaging keyboard.

 

[Luc of Legends]

UOGold,

Sir discussing this point with you is like discussing making drugs legal to a Drug Cartel. Both of you don't want it because you both loose profits. Only difference between you and the cartel is the cartel would have disposed of me already and they would pay off the right people to keep drugs illegal.

 

[Merlin]

Something that would probably make a dent in RMT sales, at least for a while, is if the IRS would go after (i.e., penalize) people who are not properly or adequately reporting the income they produce from RMT sales, especially if they decided to audit returns going back a few years. Or if Paypal was asked by more companies to cooperate in shutting off third-party sellers who might be violating the intellectual property rights of the game companies.

Respectfully, I couldn't think of a worse solution. There is never anything net-positive that comes out of getting the IRS involved.

Guess what happens if Pay Pal does that? People move onto Venmo, or whatever the next "online banking" outfit is.

Also... make a dent in RMT sales, you say? This will make an even larger dent in UO subscriptions. Many of these brokers and vendors have double-digit number of accounts. That sub-money to Broadsword is far more important to UO than shutting down RMT sales.

 

[King Greg]

GEE these would be some of the things fixed if UO did go head to head or do you really think UO/EA Corp itself is that stupid. Please use gray matter before engaging keyboard.

Do they need to go head to head with rmt sites to earn the money to get the kings collection/stygian abyss added to the origin store for certain countries? You wouldn't think a company would need a funding to add codes to a digital store that spits them out like candy.

 

[King Greg]

Something that would probably make a dent in RMT sales, at least for a while, is if the IRS would go after (i.e., penalize) people who are not properly or adequately reporting the income they produce from RMT sales, especially if they decided to audit returns going back a few years. Or if Paypal was asked by more companies to cooperate in shutting off third-party sellers who might be violating the intellectual property rights of the game companies.

An rmt website that doesn't report to the irs would be an idiot. You have tracking numbers, a database, and a paper trail a mile long, not to mention the transactions aren't "Gifted" like they are with individual sellers.

 

[King Greg]

UOGold,

Sir discussing this point with you is like discussing making drugs legal to a Drug Cartel. Both of you don't want it because you both loose profits. Only difference between you and the cartel is the cartel would have disposed of me already and they would pay off the right people to keep drugs illegal.

So from your simile, Your suggestion is that in order to shut down the drug cartels, the government should start selling drugs itself.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Do they need to go head to head with rmt sites to earn the money to get the kings collection/stygian abyss added to the origin store for certain countries? You wouldn't think a company would need a funding to add codes to a digital store that spits them out like candy.

We never said that UO was perfect BUT and here is the BIG BUT is IF UO wanted to do this then they UO/BS would go to EA and ask them for the horse power to put this in and as EA not UO runs the store I am sure that EA has more than enough gray matter in those upper offices to know how to put other companies/business/small time mom and pop shops out of business and make %100 sure that they have all their bases covered. We are not talking UO doing this because in fact EA owns the store and EA collects the money for UO so I am about %99.99999999999999 sure that EA would make sure that all their ducks are in a row.

 

[King Greg]

Lets get something straight, I think RMT Should be made legal. Players are going to do it anyways, and do it anyways, whether it be through sites or through icq.

I do not think duped goods should be sold through RMT, Because this would cause a flood in the market and wreak all sorts of havoc. This is the same outcome if Origin were to sell items you can acquire in game for cash. Selling deco, and special items you can't obtain in game, through the Games store (Raised garden beds, Forged Metal Artifacts, Etc) Has no effect on the value of players in game items they farmed.

Going after websites with lawsuits accomplishes nothing other than getting advertisement. There are still rmt sites for Wow and other games even after all their "Mass Bans and Lawsuits". If that's what they need to advertise for this game, great.

I've said it before i'll say it again.

If your main concern is about them banning scripters/rmt and not about the Longevity of the game/attracting a new player base to bring back the games population (Rmt was around in UO's peak, hell EBAY). Then just quit the game, it has more of a chance of surviving that way.

 

[Jirel of Joiry]

So from your simile, Your suggestion is that in order to shut down the drug cartels, the government should start selling drugs itself.

OMG!

 

[King Greg]

We never said that UO was perfect BUT and here is the BIG BUT is IF UO wanted to do this then they UO/BS would go to EA and ask them for the horse power to put this in and as EA not UO runs the store I am sure that EA has more than enough gray matter in those upper offices to know how to put other companies/business/small time mom and pop shops out of business and make %100 sure that they have all their bases covered. We are not talking UO doing this because in fact EA owns the store and EA collects the money for UO so I am about %99.99999999999999 sure that EA would make sure that all their ducks are in a row.

Stygian abyss has been out for 6 years, And still isn't available in Multiple countries. Facts a fact, straight money they are losing just by not offering the same items available to everyone. EA's ducks are on oppoosite ends of the ocean offering different items for a different price.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Stygian abyss has been out for 6 years, And still isn't available in Multiple countries. Facts a fact, straight money they are losing just by not offering the same items available to everyone. EA's ducks are on oppoosite ends of the ocean offering different items for a different price.

 

[Jirel of Joiry]

Are you trolling your own thread?

 

[Tina Small]

An rmt website that doesn't report to the irs would be an idiot. You have tracking numbers, a database, and a paper trail a mile long, not to mention the transactions aren't "Gifted" like they are with individual sellers.

I don't know if the IRS does any kind of data matching to catch non-reporting or under-reporting online sellers, but it looks like Australia is doing it: https://www.ato.gov.au/General/Gen/Data-matching-program-protocol/ and https://www.ato.gov.au/General/How-...cific-data-matching-programs/#onlinesellingdm .

 

[Jirel of Joiry]

I don't know if the IRS does any kind of data matching to catch non-reporting or under-reporting online sellers, but it looks like Australia is doing it: https://www.ato.gov.au/General/Gen/Data-matching-program-protocol/ and https://www.ato.gov.au/General/How-...cific-data-matching-programs/#onlinesellingdm .

I think the EU might be as well. Tina, do you buy that he is obeying the laws and paying taxes in every country he is selling in? I don't.

 

[King Greg]

The VAT is honestly a conundrum that needs to be sorted out by paypal/zencart during the conversion from Euro to USD based on the address of the buyer. (Due to each country having different rules) Its quite a bit more simple in the US for now, and digital sales/service taxation is still a fairly new concept world wide.

This is where CPA's are useful , Not suggested to try to handle all of that on your own.

Also doubt the VAT charges for an rmt to European countries seems like much when compared to the income taxes and paypal fees already taken.

And the Vat has to be factored at Profit, which is incredibly hard to measure until the end of the year for RMT, Lol, Especially when things are purchased in 6 month subscriptions. I doubt Germany would want a check for 1 Euro every quarter.

 

[Jirel of Joiry]

The VAT is honestly a conundrum that needs to be sorted out by paypal/zencart during the conversion from Euro to USD based on the address of the buyer. (Due to each country having different rules) Its quite a bit more simple in the US for now, and digital sales/service taxation is still a fairly new concept world wide.

This is where CPA's are useful , Not suggested to try to handle all of that on your own.

Also doubt the VAT charges for an rmt to European countries seems like much when compared to the income taxes and paypal fees already taken.

And the Vat has to be factored at Profit, which is incredibly hard to measure until the end of the year for RMT, Lol, Especially when things are purchased in 6 month subscriptions. I doubt Germany would want a check for 1 Euro every quarter.

Congratulations, you just proved what every cop, PI, and criminology professor says is true!

 

[Angel of Sonoma]

So from your simile, Your suggestion is that in order to shut down the drug cartels, the government should start selling drugs itself.

The people selling weed in Colorado are making a fortune. One shop owner claimed to be making 200k per month. And the government gets their cut in taxes. Just saying.

 

[grimiz]

Congratulations, you just proved what every cop, PI, and criminology professor says is true!

Enlighten us - what is it that they all say?

 

[Jirel of Joiry]

Enlighten us - what is it that they all say?

That criminals aren't very smart.

 

[Tina Small]

Lets get something straight, I think RMT Should be made legal. Players are going to do it anyways, and do it anyways, whether it be through sites or through icq.

I do not think duped goods should be sold through RMT, Because this would cause a flood in the market and wreak all sorts of havoc. This is the same outcome if Origin were to sell items you can acquire in game for cash. Selling deco, and special items you can't obtain in game, through the Games store (Raised garden beds, Forged Metal Artifacts, Etc) Has no effect on the value of players in game items they farmed.

Going after websites with lawsuits accomplishes nothing other than getting advertisement. There are still rmt sites for Wow and other games even after all their "Mass Bans and Lawsuits". If that's what they need to advertise for this game, great.

I've said it before i'll say it again.

If your main concern is about them banning scripters/rmt and not about the Longevity of the game/attracting a new player base to bring back the games population (Rmt was around in UO's peak, hell EBAY). Then just quit the game, it has more of a chance of surviving that way.

I don't play Diablo III. However, it looks like Blizzard's attempt to support RMT in the game with an auction house wasn't successful. From what I can find, it sounds like their official explanation for shutting it down was that it was undermining core gameplay, i.e., it made going out and hunting and looting pointless because if you always wanted the best for your character you would find it more easily in the auction house than going out to get it yourself. (http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9972208129) This is borne out in articles describing how many players were using the auction house and weren't even spending time actually playing the game after a while. They were just logging on to use the auction house to make money. (Example: http://venturebeat.com/2014/03/19/m...w-closed-diablo-iii-real-money-auction-house/ )

A lot of people speculated when the auction house started up that it could be used by criminals to do money laundering. As far as I know, Blizzard never confirmed that was one of the reasons they shut it down. However, I don't doubt that it was something they discussed at length.

Korea wouldn't allow Blizzard to release Diablo III there with the auction house enabled because their Game Rating Board viewed being able to buy and sell items won in the game and using the cash-out feature to convert game money to real money as gambling. So I'm sure Blizzard had to look at that angle as well and worry about which other countries might, down the road, also object to the auction house as being a form of online gambling that needs to be regulated.

Blizzard may also have gotten tired of dealing with situations like this where they had to clean up the aftermath after someone discovered a way to dupe gold and 415 players took advantage of it to sell the duped gold through the auction house: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8796520380 .

I've also found online articles about people complaining about glitches that caused them to lose their money and which obviously tied up Blizzard's customer service and GM staff doing investigations into those complaints. Some players even threatened to get the FBI and/or other regulatory agencies involved to resolve their complaints.

And lastly, Blizzard also apparently spent a lot of time and money on this court case involving use of the auction house: http://fusion.net/story/137157/two-...or-stealing-virtual-items-from-other-players/ .

It sounds like, all in all, Blizzard tried and failed for possibly many reasons to implement a way to support players in doing their own real money trading and they ran into many, many problems along the way. It makes it tough for me to believe that many other game companies would want to follow in their footsteps, take on so many headaches, and possibly risk ruining their game in the process and finding themselves out of job, or in the worst possible case, somehow end up being caught up in some kind of "financial crimes" sting and doing time in prison.

 

[AtlanticRealtor]

Has anyone realized what damage scripting, hacking and exploiting does to the code? The dev team has to spend valuable time fixing stuff these people have broken, thus taking way from expansion, fixing stuff the dev team broke, and other development issues. Has anyone thought that part of the reason the expansions are buggy is because they had to fix something a hack screwed up before they could implement new code.

Hacking causes code degradation and instability. Yes code does degrade over time, but hacks speeds it up greatly causing such lovely things as corrupted files and server crashes. Thus leading to everyone's favorite the REVERT! Ask yourself this question would you defend Mr/Ms. Hacker if their behavior resulted in your losing a rare drop because they caused the dev team to have revert because of the code they corrupted?

Who said anything about "Hacking"??
As far as we know people are complaining about the people that script resources and all, as far as we know, script is like auto macro, that will repeat an action over and over while the person is AFK!! there is nothing to do with "hacking" anything!!!

 

[AtlanticRealtor]

and another thing!!
People here are "pancakes" about the use of some sort of 3rd part software's to help them Macro, People used UOA and many others since late 2000's and all this talk makes no sense on the EC + Pincos, that have ALL, I mean ALL the features of ALL the others software's ALREADY incorporated on it and best of ALL, TOTALLY LEGAL!!!

But than again, would require some sort of "intelligence" to learn Pincos + Lua....

 

[Jirel of Joiry]

I don't play Diablo III. However, it looks like Blizzard's attempt to support RMT in the game with an auction house wasn't successful. From what I can find, it sounds like their official explanation for shutting it down was that it was undermining core gameplay, i.e., it made going out and hunting and looting pointless because if you always wanted the best for your character you would find it more easily in the auction house than going out to get it yourself. (http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9972208129) This is borne out in articles describing how many players were using the auction house and weren't even spending time actually playing the game after a while. They were just logging on to use the auction house to make money. (Example: http://venturebeat.com/2014/03/19/m...w-closed-diablo-iii-real-money-auction-house/ )

A lot of people speculated when the auction house started up that it could be used by criminals to do money laundering. As far as I know, Blizzard never confirmed that was one of the reasons they shut it down. However, I don't doubt that it was something they discussed at length.

Korea wouldn't allow Blizzard to release Diablo III there with the auction house enabled because their Game Rating Board viewed being able to buy and sell items won in the game and using the cash-out feature to convert game money to real money as gambling. So I'm sure Blizzard had to look at that angle as well and worry about which other countries might, down the road, also object to the auction house as being a form of online gambling that needs to be regulated.

Blizzard may also have gotten tired of dealing with situations like this where they had to clean up the aftermath after someone discovered a way to dupe gold and 415 players took advantage of it to sell the duped gold through the auction house: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8796520380 .

I've also found online articles about people complaining about glitches that caused them to lose their money and which obviously tied up Blizzard's customer service and GM staff doing investigations into those complaints. Some players even threatened to get the FBI and/or other regulatory agencies involved to resolve their complaints.

And lastly, Blizzard also apparently spent a lot of time and money on this court case involving use of the auction house: http://fusion.net/story/137157/two-...or-stealing-virtual-items-from-other-players/ .

It sounds like, all in all, Blizzard tried and failed for possibly many reasons to implement a way to support players in doing their own real money trading and they ran into many, many problems along the way. It makes it tough for me to believe that many other game companies would want to follow in their footsteps, take on so many headaches, and possibly risk ruining their game in the process and finding themselves out of job, or in the worst possible case, somehow end up being caught up in some kind of "financial crimes" sting and doing time in prison.

Blizzard still has the World of Warcraft auction house, as far as I can tell its in game gold only. They also have an amazing WoW store.

The biggest headache I can see for a company to do what you described is trying to not run afoul of every countries' sales, tax and banking laws. (banking laws cover more than just banks). Plus you have the added headache of currency conversion, as conversion rates change daily. I can totally see why Blizzard shut down the RMT auction house in Diablo III.

 

[AtlanticRealtor]

and just so you know!!!
this is me "Playing UO"

 

[Jirel of Joiry]

Okay UOHouses and UOGold Please leave my sister and I alone. From here on out you are BLOCKED.

 

[Keith of Sonoma]

Lets get something straight, I think RMT Should be made legal. Players are going to do it anyways, and do it anyways, whether it be through sites or through icq.

I do not think duped goods should be sold through RMT, Because this would cause a flood in the market and wreak all sorts of havoc. This is the same outcome if Origin were to sell items you can acquire in game for cash. Selling deco, and special items you can't obtain in game, through the Games store (Raised garden beds, Forged Metal Artifacts, Etc) Has no effect on the value of players in game items they farmed.

Going after websites with lawsuits accomplishes nothing other than getting advertisement. There are still rmt sites for Wow and other games even after all their "Mass Bans and Lawsuits". If that's what they need to advertise for this game, great.

I've said it before i'll say it again.

If your main concern is about them banning scripters/rmt and not about the Longevity of the game/attracting a new player base to bring back the games population (Rmt was around in UO's peak, hell EBAY). Then just quit the game, it has more of a chance of surviving that way.

This coming from someone who has the same ICQ# as a site that sells UO items for $$$. Who would have guessed.

 

[MalagAste]

and just so you know!!!
this is me "Playing UO"

And my Landlord freaked out a bit when he came to do our inspection with the state inspector because we had 6 computers in our house in 3 different rooms. Of course he missed the 6 systems set up to the TV in the Livingroom and the laptop in my sons room... But the guy couldn't get over it. Especially because my son and I both have BIG monitors. My son has my old 42" HDTV and I have my new 46" LED HDTV..... which I LOVE.

He was totally blown away and kept wondering what my power bills are like.

 

[Vor]

and just so you know!!!
this is me "Playing UO"

I have that same keyboard! Is yours the mechanic switch version?

 

[AtlanticRealtor]

I have that same keyboard! Is yours the mechanic switch version?

yes

 

[DreadLord Lestat]

Especially because my son and I both have BIG monitors. My son has my old 42" HDTV and I have my new 46" LED HDTV..... which I LOVE.

My wife and I tried that and everything was just too pixelated so we ended up going with 30" monitor/tvs.

 

[King Greg]

Yeah, I don't go above 30" Monitors for UO.

This coming from someone who has the same ICQ# as a site that sells UO items for $$$. Who would have guessed.

Someone was claiming I wouldn't support RMT being made legal. Only thing here is my icq which you can ask me about things in the game from mechanics to suit building to templates, etc, as many players do.

Unlike most players I don't have to pretend about my intentions.

 

[Keith of Sonoma]

Yeah, I don't go above 30" Monitors for UO.

Someone was claiming I wouldn't support RMT being made legal. Only thing here is my icq which you can ask me about things in the game from mechanics to suit building to templates, etc, as many players do.

Unlike most players I don't have to pretend about my intentions.

ROFL

 

[Riyana]

This thread is finished.