Arrrrghh!!! Why is it EVERYTHING done to stop scripters benefits them?

[Dot_Warner]

Mesanna should do what Draconi did and replace the scriptor/RMT people's houses with burning effigies. Public shaming without going into detail.

 

[Lord Frodo]

I don't refer to the numbers, I refer to the method. I also disagree with Lord Frodo. I don't think that the population of UO or the majority of accounts is made up of scripters. In most cases, you will find some people behind this shady business, and sometimes banning one persons's accounts will give enough rumor to make others shut down their business.

Did I say the MAJORITY, no I did not but the UO population IMHO is not large enough for even that portion to stop playing/paying and still keep UO alive. Also I stated CHEATERS not just scripters and yes IMHO there are more CHEATERS than just SCRIPTERS in UO.

 

[BrianFreud]

Perhaps the role of local government could be augmented. Why not have the Governor have control of an entire territory surrounding its town. That Governor can appoint characters (as a sheriff or deputies) who have the ability to "transport" suspected scripters to the town jail (which would be a no-recall area). This would be possible to do on any facet. The jailed character would then have say ten minutes to do something in particular in order to get out of jail (in order to verify that it is not a scripter), or be sent to Yew prison for a set term (say 90 days). Such a person could get out of prison by paying a fine to the town (say $10M gold) or by asking for a trial in order to prove he or she was innocent. Such deputies could only be on accounts that were at least seven years old. Deputies would get some sort of reward for this. Deputies could then from time to time patrol their areas searching for possible scripters.

Couldn't the devs set up something like that?

This wouldn't be abused by anyone. Guaranteed.

If you believe that, then might I have your vote next election?

 

[Merlin]

Mesanna should do what Draconi did and replace the scriptor/RMT people's houses with burning effigies. Public shaming without going into detail.

If you're suggesting they should go after anyone who's bought a house through RMT, that's crazy talk. There is nothing wrong with RMT for houses, items or gold.

Disagree all you want, but at this point in UO's life cycle, the game would die a quick death without RMT.

 

[Jirel of Joiry]

If you're suggesting they should go after anyone who's bought a house through RMT, that's crazy talk. There is nothing wrong with RMT for houses, items or gold.

Disagree all you want, but at this point in UO's life cycle, the game would die a quick death without RMT.

I'm okay with RMT *As long as it is done by the company that owns the game* ala Blizzard. They have a WOW Token you buy it with real life money; take it to the in game auction house to sell. Players bid on it with gold, the winner now has a token that can be clicked on and adds game time to their account. It is a LEGAL way to buy gametime with gold!! [SARCASM=] WHAT A CONCEPT! [/SARCASM]

Can you imagine the revenue Broadsword could generate if they had a STORE THAT WAS WORTH A CRAP?
I'd gladly buy mounts, pets, armor and even gold if they sold it. Hell, I'd pay 50 - 75 bucks for a blaze cu. Before you start singing how they sell for hundreds of dollars do remember that SCARCITY drives the price UP, and SURPLUS drives the price DOWN.

I'd kill for UO to have a store like this :
https://us.battle.net/shop/en/product/game/wow

Its little wonder why WoW has punk'd, pawn'd and own'd UO.

 

[Lord Frodo]

If you're suggesting they should go after anyone who's bought a house through RMT, that's crazy talk. There is nothing wrong with RMT for houses, items or gold.

Disagree all you want, but at this point in UO's life cycle, the game would die a quick death without RMT.

Lets see if we can explain this so you understand. Awhile back some Scripters/Dupers/RMTers/CHEATERS/All Around down right Scums (I am sure you get the drift) were caught red handed and the Fire Bug known as Dev Draconi deleted everything in the houses and then blew then up and let them burn. This was not about selling a house for RMT as you concluded. As you walk around UO you may come across one of these houses and now you will know why they are there.

 

[popps]

To get the dev team to pay attention to what you are saying, it may be more effective to spell out EXACTLY how the actions of these other players are affecting your ability to play and enjoy UO.

It is easy, VERY easy to spell how scripters ruin the game experience for a whole lot of players.....

They devalue the gaming time worth of those players who do not script thus making those scriptable activities in the game not worth to be played by those who do not script.

I will make a few of examples just for simplicity, but many others could be made...

- Harvesting resources like Mining or Chopping wood.
A player who needs to spend his/her gaming time (sometimes scarce) to harvest resources, of course will perceive a value of those resources when He/she will sell them in the game comparable to the time invested in gathering them. The real worth is the time put into acquiring a resource..... in economy, it is called added value.......
Unfortunately, here comes the scripter who does the same exact thing, only 24/7, scripting, and not using one's own time but an automated process, the script. Such player, of course, not using one's own time to get those in-game items, will have a much lower value perceived for those resources as the where way, but way much cheaper to obtain to him/her not having had to invest precious game time into gathering them.

So, the scripter will be able to undersell by a large margin the non-scripter items and this, will of course make it not worth for the non-scripting players to spend gaming time into scriptable activities (but not scripting them, actually doing them by hand, playing the game).
Much more efficient to go else, gain in-game gold, and buy from the scripters those resources/items at a cheaper rate as it would cost the non-scripter to get them by playing the game.

The result ? Because of scripting players get "cut out" of entire sections of game play simply because it makes no sense to play them, much more efficient to do else, gain in-game gold, and buy from the scripters those scriptable resources/items spending the in-game gold earned doing other things in one's own gaming time.

The game loses, players lose because entire sections of game play and content are no longer worth the time and hassle to be played by non scripting players.

- PvP scripts
In a game that has competitive activities like for example PvP, someone who runs healing scripts, scripts for changing gear and weapons "on the fly" and so forth, clearly has a distinctive advantage as compared to a player who does not script.

Result ?

Players not scripting are again cut out from a huge section of game content, PvP, because they are at a clear loss versus players who use scripting aids in combat. An important element of game play, PvP, loses many perspective participants because of scripting since, noone likes to lose and everyone like to win. If those not scripting cannot have a chance at PvP versus those scripting combat aids, why then bother engaging in combat versus them ?

- IDOCs placement scripting
Is there anything I should really say here ? We all know how scripting can aid those scripting and hurt the game play of those participating at an IDOC who do not script......

- In game Stealables
We all know of what has gone on down DOOM about the stealable, as well as elsewhere.... since waiting for a stealable item to "show up" takes time, as they do not respawn at a precise time, those scripting have been able to get a script to the "hard work" for them, and at a much faster pace, while those thieves not scripting have had to give up and leave to scripters, entirely, the game content task of "grabbing" those stealable in the game which required long waits in order to have them spawn and be able to steal them.

Again, more game content lost to non-scripting players because of the existance of players who scripted.

And I could go on with many more examples of how scripting has litterally killed the gameplay of those players who play the game not scripting.

Frankly, I am much surprised how there still is players who question "how has scripting hurt those players who do not script".....

To me there is so much evidence out in the open sun showing this that I do not understand how anyone can still think that scripting would not hurt other players (who play the game without scripting) gameplay.....

 

[Par]

This wouldn't be abused by anyone. Guaranteed.

If you believe that, then might I have your vote next election?

I never said having local government policing the scripters would be abuse-free. Few things are. Not even UO is abuse free. If abuse-free is the requirement for implementing something, then you may as well shut down UO itself, as it is itself subject to abuses (which, I may add, is the reason for the OP's original post).

I would like to point out that I am one of the few on this thread who has sincerely suggested a solution to scripting. I know the solution was a rough one, but I was hoping that others on this thread would actually take my suggestion and improve upon it.

As we all know, UO has a very low population; the devs know this and know that every UO subscription counts. I would wager that the power players are the ones who frequent these forums (especially the ones with multiple accounts). But everyone seems to be acting as if they are helpless to do anything about scripting.

I feel that we are in that movie "Ants" -- the one where there are a few grasshoppers who are dominating the numerous ants, and the ants behave as though they are powerless. But that's not really surprising as this is the post-modern world's mind-set. Too many people think that if you want to get ahead in life, you have to do something illicit (like scripting). Few people actually think that problem solving and working with the authorities to effect positive change actually works.

Anyhow, instead of all us acting as though we are powerless against scripters, why don't we come up with a viable solution (one that foresees and minimizes potential abuses) and, with our collective muscle, take it to the devs?

 

[Lord Frodo]

As we all know, UO has a very low population; the devs know this and know that every UO subscription counts.

You have already given the solution to your own proposal. Why would UO allow the players to be able to play GOD over the other players in UO. You can not ban the scripters because their accounts count too remember and what would stop a Governor from banning anyone that happen to fall under their control. Your house is located in his/her territory so he/she threatens to ban you if you do not pay for protection, remember you gave them the GOD power. You CAN NOT allow the player base to have GOD powers over anybody because of getting bribes to forcing other players to pay protection. You might as well pull the plug on UO and get it over with. We have been fighting this battle for a lot longer than it seams that you have been playing and the majority of us know that it is a losing battle so we grudgingly accept as a fact of UO. You CAN NOT ban the CHEATERS because the CHEATERS know that every account counts as sooner or later the non-cheaters will quit and close UO but for now UO will collect as much money as it can to survive as long as it can. Please do not get mad at people because they do not like your idea and do not get mad at people because they do not come up with an idea to stop something that the majority of us know for a fact that #1 UO really does not care because they have really done nothing about it for 17 years so why expect anything different now and #2 UO knows it can not afford to lose those accounts. We come on here and rant and rave to get it out of our system and then we go back and play UO and guess what UO knows that too.

 

[Par]

You have already given the solution to your own proposal. Why would UO allow the players to be able to play GOD over the other players in UO. You can not ban the scripters because their accounts count too remember and what would stop a Governor from banning anyone that happen to fall under their control. Your house is located in his/her territory so he/she threatens to ban you if you do not pay for protection, remember you gave them the GOD power. You CAN NOT allow the player base to have GOD powers over anybody because of getting bribes to forcing other players to pay protection. You might as well pull the plug on UO and get it over with. We have been fighting this battle for a lot longer than it seams that you have been playing and the majority of us know that it is a losing battle so we grudgingly accept as a fact of UO. You CAN NOT ban the CHEATERS because the CHEATERS know that every account counts as sooner or later the non-cheaters will quit and close UO but for now UO will collect as much money as it can to survive as long as it can. Please do not get mad at people because they do not like your idea and do not get mad at people because they do not come up with an idea to stop something that the majority of us know for a fact that #1 UO really does not care because they have really done nothing about it for 17 years so why expect anything different now and #2 UO knows it can not afford to lose those accounts. We come on here and rant and rave to get it out of our system and then we go back and play UO and guess what UO knows that too.

In my original post (#44), I did not mention banning. What I said is:

Perhaps the role of local government could be augmented. Why not have the Governor have control of an entire territory surrounding its town. That Governor can appoint characters (as a sheriff or deputies) who have the ability to "transport" suspected scripters to the town jail (which would be a no-recall area). This would be possible to do on any facet. The jailed character would then have say ten minutes to do something in particular in order to get out of jail (in order to verify that it is not a scripter), or be sent to Yew prison for a set term (say 90 days). Such a person could get out of prison by paying a fine to the town (say $10M gold) or by asking for a trial in order to prove he or she was innocent. Such deputies could only be on accounts that were at least seven years old. Deputies would get some sort of reward for this. Deputies could then from time to time patrol their areas searching for possible scripters.
​

As you see, Governors (and their deputies) cannot ban; they can only send someone to jail -- that person, if they are at their keyboard, can immediately take steps to get out of jail. Only those characters who are afk would be subject to prison, which they can avoid by paying a fine. Second, Governors are elected, and if governors aren't doing a good job, the populace can elect another governor. Third, Governors' territories do not comprise the entirety of the UO world, just certain parts of Britannia, which means that an abusive Governor would be restricted to a very limited territory. Fourth, if a Governor did a good job keeping their territory scripter free, then others would be able to mine/lumberjack the rarer resources there (and scripters would have one less area in which to gather resources). Fifth, there are several shards which are of very low population, where everyone knows everyone, and the potential for abuse is more limited. The solution could be tried on a single shard to see whether it works or not. If it doesn't work, then tweak it or even scrap it, and come up with something else. I realize it is only a partial solution (and that it only is effective against resource-gathering scripters), but at least it's a start.

 

[DJAd]

Perhaps the role of local government could be augmented. Why not have the Governor have control of an entire territory surrounding its town. That Governor can appoint characters (as a sheriff or deputies) who have the ability to "transport" suspected scripters to the town jail (which would be a no-recall area). This would be possible to do on any facet.

No offence but this is a terrible idea and would be widely abused.

 

[Merlin]

I'm okay with RMT *As long as it is done by the company that owns the game* ala Blizzard. They have a WOW Token you buy it with real life money; take it to the in game auction house to sell. Players bid on it with gold, the winner now has a token that can be clicked on and adds game time to their account. It is a LEGAL way to buy gametime with gold!! [SARCASM=] WHAT A CONCEPT! [/SARCASM]

Can you imagine the revenue Broadsword could generate if they had a STORE THAT WAS WORTH A CRAP?
I'd gladly buy mounts, pets, armor and even gold if they sold it. Hell, I'd pay 50 - 75 bucks for a blaze cu. Before you start singing how they sell for hundreds of dollars do remember that SCARCITY drives the price UP, and SURPLUS drives the price DOWN.

I'd kill for UO to have a store like this :
https://us.battle.net/shop/en/product/game/wow

Its little wonder why WoW has punk'd, pawn'd and own'd UO.

I certainly agree with the proposition of UO having a more comprehensive store. There would be tweaks that would need to be made, but yes, it would be a good idea over all that would drive revenue for the company. We could start an entire new thread to discuss the details of how this should be carried out.

However, what's the chance of that ever actually happening? I'd guess it's pretty low and right now it's all just a happy thought for something like that to happen. In the mean time, I think those who are criticizing RMT that happen through other websites are often out of line and not in touch with the reality that this "underground economy" is important to a lot of people who currently play the game. Demonizing people who obtain or sell items through RMT are not scoundrels, cheaters or scum (as I have seen not only in this thread, but several others, suggesting they are).

 

[Leeda]

I lumberjack and all I get is plain, oak and ash wood. If it wasn't for my vet reward stump and looting merchant vessels I wouldn't have any high end ingots or wood. As as for the quests I didn't know they existed. I asked my sister and she did, but said most people she's talked to in game don't know about them.

It should have never dragged on for so long, I started in 2002 it was going on then, it still goes on. It's a band-aid on a arterial laceration...we're exsanguinating! They should have stopped it years ago. I'm just so frustrated!

I have complained since it happened. I enjoyed my lumberjack. Yes I know I can get better wood from my tree stump. I spent alot of time getting my lumberjack to GM. Same with my Miner. No it was not fair to those of us that spent time getting to GM. I enjoyed my lumberjack. One of the relaxing skills I could come on and do. It became boreing to only get plain wood. I rarely take my lumberjack out anymore. Yes I was unhappy with the change. I was unhappy with change in mining. Again the time spent with a promise that when we were gm'ed we would get the better wood or ore. To this day i have not gotten any upper wood with my char.

I agree with you Jirel on the lumber. I have only came across one frostwood tree ever since the changes and it was a small 4 hitter....it changed a few hours later. But the Ore I use prospector tools and garg pick axes and able to obtain the high end ores. Not much but better than nothing. I feel your pain.[/QUOTE

 

[Lord Frodo]

In my original post (#44), I did not mention banning. What I said is:

Perhaps the role of local government could be augmented. Why not have the Governor have control of an entire territory surrounding its town. That Governor can appoint characters (as a sheriff or deputies) who have the ability to "transport" suspected scripters to the town jail (which would be a no-recall area). This would be possible to do on any facet. The jailed character would then have say ten minutes to do something in particular in order to get out of jail (in order to verify that it is not a scripter), or be sent to Yew prison for a set term (say 90 days). Such a person could get out of prison by paying a fine to the town (say $10M gold) or by asking for a trial in order to prove he or she was innocent. Such deputies could only be on accounts that were at least seven years old. Deputies would get some sort of reward for this. Deputies could then from time to time patrol their areas searching for possible scripters.
​

As you see, Governors (and their deputies) cannot ban; they can only send someone to jail -- that person, if they are at their keyboard, can immediately take steps to get out of jail. Only those characters who are afk would be subject to prison, which they can avoid by paying a fine. Second, Governors are elected, and if governors aren't doing a good job, the populace can elect another governor. Third, Governors' territories do not comprise the entirety of the UO world, just certain parts of Britannia, which means that an abusive Governor would be restricted to a very limited territory. Fourth, if a Governor did a good job keeping their territory scripter free, then others would be able to mine/lumberjack the rarer resources there (and scripters would have one less area in which to gather resources). Fifth, there are several shards which are of very low population, where everyone knows everyone, and the potential for abuse is more limited. The solution could be tried on a single shard to see whether it works or not. If it doesn't work, then tweak it or even scrap it, and come up with something else. I realize it is only a partial solution (and that it only is effective against resource-gathering scripters), but at least it's a start.

No matter what if you give players control over other players then it will be abused.

 

[Lord Frodo]

No offence but this is a terrible idea and would be widely abused.

I own you pay up or go to jail, SUCKER. jk
YEP YEP YEP no way this could be abused LOL
TOTALLY AGREE %200

 

[Tjalle]

There is nothing wrong with RMT for houses, items or gold.

Yeah, cuz it´s not like it promotes cheating or anything...

 

[Merlin]

Yeah, cuz it´s not like it promotes cheating or anything...

Yeah, because It's not like they keep this game alive or anything...

 

[Captn Norrington]

Yeah, because It's not like they keep this game alive or anything...

Yeah, because it's not like the scripters and cheaters being allowed to stay for this long caused hundreds of other players to quit the game or anything...

 

[Longtooths]

Yeah, because it's not like the scripters and cheaters being allowed to stay for this long caused hundreds of other players to quit the game or anything...

There were exactly twice as many scripters and cheaters that started playing then those that quit because of them. I'll show my proof if you show yours...just sayin'


Just because you say it on the internet does not make it so ~ Gandhi

 

[Nexus]

Yeah, because It's not like they keep this game alive or anything...

That doesn't exactly make it OK to do though. What it does do, is make the Devs look hypocritical, they have these established rules which they say everyone is supposed to follow, and then turn a blind eye when it's beneficial to them, as in it keeps them employed.

It makes it harder and harder to for the community to interact with the developers, we all know and understand that push backs, delays, and priorities change when they promise things for the game, but it makes it harder to see them as credible when the basic rules of the game service are ignored and nothing happens. Well not exactly nothing, the legitimate players become increasingly disgruntled, the player base slowly declines, and the work load increases on the Devs as now they have to factor in how to slow down the effectiveness of automated players farming artifacts, resources, and gold, or those running scripts which allow them to execute perfect timing on everything from heals to pot chugs. The means to attempt to hamper this only hurts the legitimate players more creating a self-fulling prophecy of decline and frustration.

 

[Merlin]

Yeah, because it's not like the scripters and cheaters being allowed to stay for this long caused hundreds of other players to quit the game or anything...

If you read all of my posts, you will see I exclusively defend those who conduct RMT, not cheaters or scripters.

 

[Nexus]

If you read all of my posts, you will see I exclusively defend those who conduct RMT, not cheaters or scripters.

What percentage of those who engage in RMT heavily also make use of scripts and there by cheating?

I have no doubt there are some who don't, but the big players in the RMT scene? Come one don't be gullible.

 

[Merlin]

What percentage of those who engage in RMT heavily also make use of scripts and there by cheating?

I have no doubt there are some who don't, but the big players in the RMT scene? Come one don't be gullible.

Don't lump us all into one basket. I've never scripted or used any third party program (unless you think Mumble/Ventrillo/TeamSpeak count), not even any of the approved ones. Come on, don't generalize here either.

 

[Nexus]

I've heard every reason under the sun blamed for the declining player base. Respectfully, I just don't buy it that RMT some how drives players away. Also, I simply don't agree that RMT makes it harder for players to interact with developers... not sure what your basis is for that one.

Actually you're not.

UO's Terms of Service section 5 sub section c

(c) Rights. You acknowledge and agree that all characters created, and items acquired and developed as a result of game play are part of the Software and Service and are the sole property of Electronic Arts. You acknowledge that: (i) the Software and the Service permit access to Content that is protected by copyrights, trademarks, and other proprietary rights owned by Electronic Arts or Content Providers (collectively, "Rights"), and (ii) these Rights are valid and protected in all media existing now or later developed, and (iii) except as is explicitly provided otherwise, your use of Content shall be governed by the copyright laws of the United States and other applicable laws. You agree that you may upload or otherwise transmit on or through the Service only Content that is not subject to any Rights, or Content in which any holder of Rights has given express authorization for distribution on the Service. By submitting Content to any area on the Service, you automatically grant (or you warrant that the owner of such Content has expressly granted) to Electronic Arts the royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display such Content worldwide and/or to incorporate it in other works in any form, media, or technology now known or later developed for the full term including any renewal term of any Rights that may exist in such Content.

All those pretty pixels you're talking about selling, they aren't yours. You can not legally sell another person or parties property without their consent.

 

[Merlin]

Actually you're not.

UO's Terms of Service section 5 sub section c



All those pretty pixels you're talking about selling, they aren't yours. You can not legally sell another person or parties property without their consent.

Yes I am, I don't care what you say, dude.

Until the developers make an effort to stop it...

I win.

EDIT:

Bonnie Armstrong: Any way you want to win, that’s how you win.

 

[DJAd]

All those pretty pixels you're talking about selling, they aren't yours. You can not legally sell another person or parties property without their consent.

But if this is the case why are there loads of 3rd party sites still? It's not like they are closed and the re-open with a new name. Some have been operating for years.

 

[Nexus]

But if this is the case why are there loads of 3rd party sites still? It's not like they are closed and the re-open with a new name. Some have been operating for years.

I agree, they do need to take action to take them down. Legally they could simply sue them, take the winnings and re-invest it into the game.

 

[Merlin]

I agree, they do need to take action to take them down. Legally they could simply sue them, take the winnings and re-invest it into the game.

Or blow a lot of money on attorney and the US Justice system. DERP

 

[Captn Norrington]

Or blow a lot of money on attorney and the US Justice system. DERP

This is EA we're talking about, they have hundreds of lawyers who already work for them. It's not like they would be getting price quotes at a local legal office.

 

[Merlin]

This is EA we're talking about, they have hundreds of lawyers who already work for them. It's not like they would be getting price quotes at a local legal office.

1) You think EA is going to spend big bucks on their lawyers for a game who's gross profit is likely pretty light? Very highly doubtful. The amount of money we're talking about here is immaterial to EA, otherwise they'd have done it already. Also, it would look pretty bad on the developers' part and Broadsword's if they needed EA to step in here to chase down a few bucks at best.

2) Think about what you're actually suggesting. Think about what this would really be putting people through. You would want EA to use their legal team to go after WELL KNOWN players, some who are the bed rock foundation of our game, and take them to court, ruin them financially, totally invade their personal and private records and conversations to track down RMT's, and prosecute?

Yeah, I'm sure that would go over REAL WELL with the UO Community and bring back TONS of old players who quit because they were SOOOO offended by the presence of RMT.



3) EA has a bad reputation and has continually ranked at bottom of many corporate benchmarks for their company's operations and conduct. EA is trying to turn this around and has changed some aspects of corporate management to combat exactly this reputation. If a lawsuit like this has the potential to create negative headlines and the monetary benefit is negligible at best, they simply wouldn't go through with it.



Not trying to be a stickler here, I just think the anti-RMT purity attitude around here is quite laughable and needs to be challenged by folks like myself.

 

[King Greg]

*Facepalm*

Every week a player returns to this game, he gets a trial, makes a toon and logs in to try and see what the game is like now. They Drop their character in Britain, because that's where they remember the main hangout being, run to west Britain bank and find a ghost town. They have no idea how the chat system works or that it even exists, they run around for a little bit trying to find life before logging out of the game and moving on. The Tutorials/guides are non existent, the quests and Rewards for starting players is laughable and stop at 50.0 skill. If you google "Ultima Online Forums" Stratics ISN'T Even at the top of the list. Average GM Response time? uoguide.com is only useful if you know what you are already looking for, completely useless to a new player. No Incentives for Returning Players, even during RTB. No Sales Specifically for UO. Oh, Advertisement, For F's Sake Advertisement. MULTIPLE CLIENTS Each with their own functions. 3rd Party Programs (UoAssist) needed to make certain clients functional/mapping.

You guys are worried about scripters/rmt? There is rmt/botters in every single mmorpg, yes including Wow. That measly amount of accounts that they ban would probably equate to 10 accounts in our game. Laughable. These games are still around and thriving.

Your House is on fire and you are worried about a leaky faucet that's been leaking since the house was built, Meanwhile the Landlord is making additions to the house.

If your opinion is that they should just unplug the game, if they aren't going to ban everyone who has participated in rmt/unattended macroing, then quit.

 

[Luc of Legends]

Okay, I am about to stick my pointy, little nose into this discussion. First, I will not comment on RMT as I am writing from a programmer's POV regarding the negative impact of hacks on the code.

With that being said, I see more post people complaining about this glitch and that glitch. Has anyone realized what damage scripting, hacking and exploiting does to the code? The dev team has to spend valuable time fixing stuff these people have broken, thus taking way from expansion, fixing stuff the dev team broke, and other development issues. Has anyone thought that part of the reason the expansions are buggy is because they had to fix something a hack screwed up before they could implement new code.

Hacking causes code degradation and instability. Yes code does degrade over time, but hacks speeds it up greatly causing such lovely things as corrupted files and server crashes. Thus leading to everyone's favorite the REVERT! Ask yourself this question would you defend Mr/Ms. Hacker if their behavior resulted in your losing a rare drop because they caused the dev team to have revert because of the code they corrupted?

 

[Lord Frodo]

All those pretty pixels you're talking about selling, they aren't yours. You can not legally sell another person or parties property without their consent.

RMTers are doing nothing different than UO. When UO sells you something in their store it is for the use of that item only. UO sell you game time for the use only of the account. UO owns everything and the only thing you are doing id paying for the right to use it. Same thing can as is said about all those other sites because alls they are doing id selling you the right to use it. There is no way possible for anybody but UO to own anything in game. An RMTer is only selling you the same right that they bought from UO.

 

[Lord Frodo]

I agree, they do need to take action to take them down. Legally they could simply sue them, take the winnings and re-invest it into the game.

Sue them for what selling the right to use something in game because that is all they are doing.

 

[Captn Norrington]

Sue them for what selling the right to use something in game because that is all they are doing.

The UO terms of service that every player agreed to when they made their account says that no player is allowed to sell in game items for real life currency under any circumstances. The RMT sites owners have all breached the contract between them and UO by selling things for real money, which could be considered a legal offense that could be prosecuted if needed.

 

[Lord Frodo]

The UO terms of service that every player agreed to when they made their account says that no player is allowed to sell in game items for real life currency under any circumstances. The RMT sites owners have all breached the contract between them and UO by selling things for real money, which could be considered a legal offense that could be prosecuted if needed.

And all the RMTers have to say is they are not selling the item itself but the use of it under a long term contract that never runs out. You as a player can not own pixel crack I do not care what you do you yourself can never own it only use it. UO is the only one that can own UO pixel crack and alls we do is pay for the right to use it even from UO. RMTers are doing the exact same thing, selling the right to use it.

 

[King Greg]

Okay, so the websites go away and all you are left with is the 40+ People who sell through icq/other forums that allow it? And the faucet still leaks.

 

[Merlin]

The UO terms of service that every player agreed to when they made their account says that no player is allowed to sell in game items for real life currency under any circumstances. The RMT sites owners have all breached the contract between them and UO by selling things for real money, which could be considered a legal offense that could be prosecuted if needed.

And it will never happen for the many reasons I've stated in previous posts. Just a false threat.

 

[Luc of Legends]

Okay, so the websites go away and all you are left with is the 40+ People who sell through icq/other forums that allow it? And the faucet still leaks.

And sadly you are right.. Did we all miss Prohibition in American History? It prove if humans want something they will find a way to get that item. Once it was legal to buy and sell liquor the speak easy lost favor for more legit establishments. The way to stop outside RMT is to take way the value of the item. ie if EA is selling the same item but for low value, the outside RMTer will stop selling cause the item no long has value.

 

[Lord Frodo]

And sadly you are right.. Did we all miss Prohibition in American History? It prove if humans want something they will find a way to get that item. Once it was legal to buy and sell liquor the speak easy lost favor for more legit establishments. The way to stop outside RMT is to take way the value of the item. ie if EA is selling the same item but for low value, the outside RMTer will stop selling cause the item no long has value.

Direct competition would be the only way for UO to do it.

 

[Luc of Legends]

Direct competition would be the only way for UO to do it.

You get it! We can argue RMT till the cows come home but til BS/EA decide to tinkle or get off the pot. The only way we the player can make a difference is not making RMT purchases but unless everyone stop..

 

[King Greg]

Your solution is to take a 17 Year old game that you pay more for than just about any other mmorpg, and have the company that runs the game SELL everything an RMT site would sell for real cash?

Surely that will attract new Player/Returning Players.

 

[Luc of Legends]

Your solution is to take a 17 Year old game that you pay more for than just about any other mmorpg, and have the company that runs the game SELL everything an RMT site would sell for real cash?

Surely that will attract new Player/Returning Players.

I never said a word about attracting new players.. but it would put the RMT discussion/problem to bed. You just don't like it because it would cost you revenue. You have notice people want instant gratification...be it Sex, drugs, and Rock N Roll.

 

[Lord Frodo]

You get it! We can argue RMT till the cows come home but til BS/EA decide to tinkle or get off the pot. The only way we the player can make a difference is not making RMT purchases but unless everyone stop..

That will never happen and we all know it. Do I like getting resources for my crafters, I use to before they randomized the resources and I am not talking just Frost and Val, Dull and Shadow for PoF. Now I buy my resources from vendors knowing damn well where they get the majority of their stock. The only RMT I have ever done is with the UO Store itself and until they sell the resources I will still buy from vendors knowing where they get the majority of their stock. There is no way we as players can stop supporting those sites as long as we support the vendors that use them and the way things are it is hard not to buy from them. SORRY but it is what it is and until UO goes head to head with these sites then we all will support them one way or the other whether we like it or not.

 

[Luc of Legends]

That will never happen and we all know it. Do I like getting resources for my crafters, I use to before they randomized the resources and I am not talking just Frost and Val, Dull and Shadow for PoF. Now I buy my resources from vendors knowing damn well where they get the majority of their stock. The only RMT I have ever done is with the UO Store itself and until they sell the resources I will still buy from vendors knowing where they get the majority of their stock. There is no way we as players can stop supporting those sites as long as we support the vendors that use them and the way things are it is hard not to buy from them. SORRY but it is what it is and until UO goes head to head with these sites then we all will support them one way or the other whether we like it or not.

Extactly!!

 

[King Greg]

Anything the origin store sold would have the same exact effect on the economy as dumping duped goods in. Rmt sites would just price match origin. Origin, You know the website with 0 Customer service where you can only buy 1 of an item at a time and you get locked out after your 3rd purchase.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Your solution is to take a 17 Year old game that you pay more for than just about any other mmorpg, and have the company that runs the game SELL everything an RMT site would sell for real cash?

Surely that will attract new Player/Returning Players.

It may or may not bring back old players but that is not the point. The point is if UO goes head to head with the other RMT sites, yes UO is a RMT site also just not as big, then UO will continue to lose real money. If you could and did buy all your needs from the UO store then UO would collect all that cash that the other RMT sites collect and who knows UO might be able to hire more peps and do more for the game. OMG what a concept, get a monopoly on all the RMTs in UO and get more people to work on it to boot, DAMN.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Anything the origin store sold would have the same exact effect on the economy as dumping duped goods in. Rmt sites would just price match origin. Origin, You know the website with 0 Customer service where you can only buy 1 of an item at a time and you get locked out after your 3rd purchase.

 

[Angel of Sonoma]

re: the OP.... randomizing ore & lumber was an ineffective solution. it did in fact hurt the honest player and benefit the scripter. no one wants to waste countless hours to net 40 frostwood boards. i'd rather buy them from the scripter's vendor and get back to the game. too bad the devs don't understand the situation.

 

[King Greg]

Oh, I forgot to add, where you can't even purchase certain things for UO if you live in the wrong country.