Prevent discussion on a discussion forum? Are you mad?Is it possible to prevent posting, but still allow the poll?
A mod should definitely look into that if its possible...
QFTI think the best option for a poll would be implement passive detect on Siege or don't. I really don't think dev's would make it a priority to "tailor make" a passive detect coding system to the Siege Perilous rule set.
No one said it would hurt Siege. But when people are paying their own hard earned dollars to play a game...my guess would be they have the right to play any template or style they so desire and not one that you have identified as being for the greater good of Siege.I dare anyone to tell me why everyone running shown templates, or more shown templates would hurt siege? Any takers?
Anyone who thinks stealth in its current state is balanced, is someone who enjoys a buffer of stealth. 1v1 A detector has no chance to kill a stealther. If you can honestly tell me when a 1v1 fielf fight vs stealther was won by someone putting 200 points to reveal about 60% of the time won, id like to hear how.
Anyone who thinks stealth in its current state is balanced, is someone who enjoys a buffer of stealth. 1v1 A detector has no chance to kill a stealther. If you can honestly tell me when a 1v1 field fight vs stealther was won by someone putting 200 points to reveal about 60% of the time won, id like to hear how.
No, there are skills in game to combat stealthers but some players do not want to learn how to use these skills and prefer the easy option.Do you support this?
So since, 75/120 stealth gives you full advantage (except DS Damage), would you be all for letting blacksmiths at 75/120 never fail when making plate chests? With a slight hit to chance of exceptional?Stealth and hiding require skill points, detecting stealthers should also require skill points.
This poll is about passive detect and whether people with 0 points in detect hidden should get the benefits of the skill. My answer is no. If you want my views on blacksmithing set up another poll.So since, 75/120 stealth gives you full advantage (except DS Damage), would you be all for letting blacksmiths at 75/120 never fail when making plate chests? With a slight hit to chance of exceptional?
Can you quote my post where it says Stealth should be removed? Or where I said players cant use it unless I approve? Feel free to use it, its a skill, and its here to stay (much like item based UO), but it needs a tweak.No one said it would hurt Siege. But when people are paying their own hard earned dollars to play a game...my guess would be they have the right to play any template or style they so desire and not one that you have identified as being for the greater good of Siege.
A clear majority of Siege players want the stealth problem addressed in some way shape or form.Why must you keep dragging this out? Rightly or wrongly, a clear majority of the Siege population don't want this and the argument has polarized many people's views on the subject such that they will never change their minds now.
Nobody is suggesting to delete the skills from the game. Nobody will lose their right to play any template or style they so desire if we make changes.No one said it would hurt Siege. But when people are paying their own hard earned dollars to play a game...my guess would be they have the right to play any template or style they so desire and not one that you have identified as being for the greater good of Siege.I dare anyone to tell me why everyone running shown templates, or more shown templates would hurt siege? Any takers?
Seriously? You're telling the best players on this server they need to learn how to play this game?Anyone who thinks stealth in its current state is balanced, is someone who enjoys a buffer of stealth. 1v1 A detector has no chance to kill a stealther. If you can honestly tell me when a 1v1 field fight vs stealther was won by someone putting 200 points to reveal about 60% of the time won, id like to hear how.
Seriously? You people need to learn how to play the game. If everyone spent half as much time learning how to use track/detect as they do whining/polling on the boards, there would be no need for these polls. rolleyes:
Why aren't we trying to fix what is broken, or changing things that will bring more people to Siege?
O Rly?!?!?is everyone in stealth mode? I only saw 2 players during the whole day. this is very discouraging, since I wanted to give uo (siege) one last shot before finally selling my account off.
REALLY!?!?We are here , we dont hang out at luna or any other banks to say forsure. Yes, most run steath for now. If ya shout out in General Chat you can talk and people will respond. Ask way, we are here to help....
Thats a good point, you could add a decreasing affect. If you have Stealing snooping and stealth at max you completely negate it. If you dont you get a reduced affect?Snooping- 100
Taming- 100
Animal Lore- 100
Hiding- 100
Stealth- 75
Ninjitsu- 50
magery- 95
(insert any skill here)- 100
So even if the tamer had to put 100 points in snooping it would'nt really fix the taming/stealth problem. I could be off on the template points cause I have never thought about nor do I know anything about a stealth tamer so feel free to correct me on the points/template.
Cheapsuit doesn't realize that you can't control a greater dragon with 100lore and 100taming.Thats a good point, you could add a decreasing affect. If you have Stealing snooping and stealth at max you completely negate it. If you dont you get a reduced affect?Snooping- 100
Taming- 100
Animal Lore- 100
Hiding- 100
Stealth- 75
Ninjitsu- 50
magery- 95
(insert any skill here)- 100
So even if the tamer had to put 100 points in snooping it would'nt really fix the taming/stealth problem. I could be off on the template points cause I have never thought about nor do I know anything about a stealth tamer so feel free to correct me on the points/template.
Sort of the opposite of DS.
You're suggesting we need to max 4 skills ( Hiding / Stealth / Snooping / Stealing ) to negate the effects of zero points invested in a skill?Thats a good point, you could add a decreasing affect. If you have Stealing snooping and stealth at max you completely negate it. If you dont you get a reduced affect?
Sort of the opposite of DS.
Nope. 100hiding and 120stealth will work just fine.You're suggesting we need to max 4 skills ( Hiding / Stealth / Snooping / Stealing ) to negate the effects of zero points invested in a skill?Thats a good point, you could add a decreasing affect. If you have Stealing snooping and stealth at max you completely negate it. If you dont you get a reduced affect?
Sort of the opposite of DS.
Acceptable huh? So you admit this poll is pointless?By adding snoop (or stealing) to the equation, you're forcing people to choose between trade-offs. Which is acceptable.
Nope. Hide/stealth is over powered and Detect/tracking doesn't counter stealthers effectively.Acceptable huh? So you admit this poll is pointless?By adding snoop (or stealing) to the equation, you're forcing people to choose between trade-offs. Which is acceptable.
Choose between your trade offs, max offensive power or detect/tracking.
Contribute something positive to the betterment of this community and shard or STFU.The community is expecting those who run good gear to just toss that aside so things are more fair and for the greater good of this shard? Yet the community doesn't expect the same from stealthers?
Well if this community can't expect that from stealthers, then don't expect that from ANYONE ELSE. Kiss all of the changes good bye. Siege is working as intended.
Unless the timer is removed from Detect, it is pretty much useless against Hiding.Acceptable huh? So you admit this poll is pointless?
Choose between your trade offs, max offensive power or detect/tracking.
Another cry thread. Sorry I cannot be here 24/7 to dry each and every tear for you. If you like passive detect so much, go play in Trammel, perhaps that would be doing something positive for the betterment of the shard. See what I did there? *wipes another tear from BR's eye*Contribute something positive to the betterment of this community and shard or STFU.
Thanks.
Personally I don't have an opinion on stealth. I don't feel qualified to give one. Most of "the people I associate with" seem to have no opinion either. I am saying that passive detect issue has the shard hopelessly divided and you should concentrate on something else, like smoke bombs.A clear majority of Siege players want the stealth problem addressed in some way shape or form.
Over 600hundred posts, 6000 views and multiple threads on this topic and you want to suggest sweeping this problem under the rug? Yeah, let's just pretend the giant neon colored elephant in the room doesn't exist.
Every single one of us that is hoping for a better Siege is relying on people like you and everyone else to talk to those you associate with. To help come up with a compromise that we all could be happy with.
The community is expecting those who run good gear to just toss that aside so things are more fair and for the greater good of this shard? Yet the community doesn't expect the same from stealthers?
Well if this community can't expect that from stealthers, then don't expect that from ANYONE ELSE. Kiss all of the changes good bye. Siege is working as intended.
Seriously? You're telling the best players on this server they need to learn how to play this game?
It's broken.
You want to talk about improving things for new players?
What the hell are posts like this?
My focus is getting the stealth problem addressed. There are many ways to handle it, but the point is to get it handled.Personally I don't have an opinion on stealth. I don't feel qualified to give one. Most of "the people I associate with" seem to have no opinion either. I am saying that passive detect issue has the shard hopelessly divided and you should concentrate on something else, like smoke bombs.
You're looking at it from the wrong lens. We use the good gear regardless of any suggested changes. We're expected to give up what we currently enjoy to make this game better for other players? But stealthers shouldn't expected to do the same thing we're asked to?As for your throwing the toys out of the pram routine, while I and many others have expressed views on faction, faction items or other things, I'm not pushing for any changes here because it is something that would be equally unpopular with a good portion of the community. Further, the changes to things like faction items were suggestions at trying to assist your side of the player base (PvPers) to get more action going by levelling the playing field a bit.
There is a chance we will get the fixes we ask for. The sad truth is, whenever we ask for changes... they are always what the entire majority wants, but not necessarily what the shard needs.But the sad truth is that the Devs have no intention of giving us any time. Furthermore, even if your stealth change went in it would almost certainly do little to revive Siege. The population has reached the tipping point where there are too few players to encourage new players (hardly any vendors, no PvP action, etc) and returning players find a dead shard. In all probability, only a concerted effort by the Devs in making a few changes and promoting Siege has any hope of bringing it back from the brink.
So why are you crying about making stealth slightly more challenging?Seriously? You're telling the best players on this server they need to learn how to play this game?
It's broken.
You want to talk about improving things for new players?
What the hell are posts like this?
Best players? Nah, in my opinion "best players" would not be the ones that are constantly whining when things get the slightest bit challenging.
Broken? Everything works just fine for me, maybe its just broken for you?
Here's an idea. Why don't you make a stealth template? You could get a first hand look at how "broken" track/detect really is.
People play UO for entertainment. If 80% are stealthers that's what they enjoy doing. It would seem a suicidal business plan for the devs to start messing around with something that is successful on Siege, to appease the other 20% because they come crying on a forum.Siege is 80% stealthers
Learn to use the skills to counter Stealth. We are tired of YOUR crying.So why are you crying about making stealth slightly more challenging?
Everything works just fine for you because you're a stealther. A stealther who counters stealthers. Gee, why on earth would you want things to be more fair for everyone else when you're sitting so pretty.
Thank you for showing everyone how broken things are.
I suport this post 100%As the last one got out of control, and this one is sure to do the same, but kelmo lettings us have plenty of leash, since we are siege, here we go again.
It should be added. But to only prevent minimum 75 skill to 100% stealth in medable armor.
Now some will complain, that more skill is needed, but to be honest, unless you have a lucky roll, and have a god piece of armor, major arties are medable, and you can make a pretty good suit outta barbed leather, imbued. So there is no reason for the mage property. There was at a time, but imbue has removed all of that need. Before you could get a 70s suit (with a few in the 80s for necro protection), but it required burning kits. Now burning kits is simply to save key resources. A mix of arties, and a few imbue pieces, gets you a full PvP suit, and if you PvM strict imbue will get you all you need and more. So it comes down to, everyone wears medable armor, and if they dont, then they are silly not to (unless they got a 5x max roll, and want that armor). So 75 is all that is needed.
Here is how I sit, and before we go there, I do have 75 stealth and 100 hide, though I quit using it long ago for a few reasons. One, im more powerful without it in PvM, and I havent had a spawn raided in over a year, and when I rarely PvP it doesnt suit my template (stealth mage? wtf precast hidden?)
I feel passive detect should be on seige, here is my logic. At 75/120 you are not considered "great, or gifted in your trade or skill" so you will make some errors. Sure you may not screw the start up, but you cant tell me at 75 stealth, you should be able to walk through a crowd of people (i know, this is seige, WTF is a crowd), and not make the slightest mistake, or sound that would alert someone. Hell at 75/120 you cant craft things everytime, so why be able to walk invisble to all every time?
So scale it. a 100 hide/120 stealth should never be detected passively, unless max skill in detect and tracking (since they may not have seen you right away, but they followed your footsteps for the last 7 screens, and all of a sudden they ended). A 100 hide, should not be passively detected, but a 75/120 stealth, when stealthing should be. Having detect boosts this, and having tracking ontop boosts it more. With a say 30-40% chance to passive detect a 100/120 with 100/100. Giving the advantage to the stealther for investing more points.
But the only reason to take stealth past 75 right now is for DS. The rest of the world can run 75 all day long, and maybe have the odd RC reveal you, inwhich you push hide again, and its game on (i have never been revealed by the same monster twice, ever).
This is silly. No other skill in the game gives you a realistic full benefit for so little points added. Even necro, which most run 105-110 necro, and 120 SS is more points, and the only downside is exorcism. Big deal, ghost cams are a thing of the past. Raids dont happen anymore.
So set a scale for it.
0 detect/track can passive reveal a 100/75 about 25% of the time
100 detect/0 track passive reveal a 100/75 about 60%
100/100 passive reveal 100/75 90%
100/100 passive reveal 100/100 50%
100/100 passive reveal 100/120 35%
Somewhat scale it according to points.
Now some will argue there are other ways to deal with stealthers. This is via area effect spells (cant cast in town), using area effect pots (cant throw in town, near mob, without getting attacked ontop of PvP). if you throw ninja in the mix, smoke bombs make it pretty much fool proof survival, sure you may not kill everyone, but you wont die very often, if at all (a good stealther should die, unless ganked beyond belief).
A prime example of this is Bo. Ask Bo, when the last time Bo died was? Bo is an assasian. Bo uses the element of suprise to get the advantage on Bos prey, and Bo buries his prey. Do you think Bo would survive as much as Bo does without hide, stealth, and ninja? The element of suprise lets Bo take out a lot of people at once. All shown templates, Bo would not have suprise, and with teamspeak/vent/etc Bos victims would know Bo was there before Bo knew they were there. Bo Doesnt die as often, because even in a 6 man gank, Bo can heal, and smoke bomb, sneak around and pick of 2 or 3 from the back, then go after the fronts. Stealth is part of an assasians template, but its at max skill. (best 3rd person I got)
Any assasain uses it to thier advantage, but not for defence strictly. For all out offence, and if it goes south, loop, flank, and go again. Anyone who uses the bare 75 for survial in PvP is abusing it. Plain and simple. You shouldnt be allowed to walk around a busy city in stealth, without investing points, and if your off in the woods, 75 is fine (covers crafters), unless and army goes by. In which case someone should see you eventually, unless your hidden, and not stealthed. So thiefs, and PvPers should invest it all, or risk getting detected passively. Isnt this siege, the land of risk? Or is 75 enough to prevent risk on your end, and allow you to go after people who invest in full templates at thier own risk?
Anyone who thinks stealth in its current state is balanced, is someone who enjoys a buffer of stealth. 1v1 A detector has no chance to kill a stealther. If you can honestly tell me when a 1v1 fielf fight vs stealther was won by someone putting 200 points to reveal about 60% of the time won, id like to hear how.
So without it, we are at gank town. And we all love getting ganked (well a select few do, but thats cause they mop the floor with 4 or more people alone).
And those who wanna say, what about the crafters. Who cares? Most crafters are not in a situation where they are in massive danger of being passive detected and killed. Once in a blue moon will someone run past a crafter stealthing back to town with a load of ore or logs, and decide to kill them cause they happened to passive detect, and didnt hit a hide macro quick enough, or were flushed out.
Lets be honest here, what do we have, like 20-30 people on siege at a time? Its a big world. So when PvP is in hot zones, passive reavel will be better for the shard. It prevents people from abusing the minimum stealth, which means most peoples fave templates are destroyed. When they look at dropping stuff to fit in 120 stealth, unless they are a DS assain, they decide in most cases its not worth it. Which means more shown templates, which means more PvP, which means more suits lost, which means more work for crafters, which means more people who log into seige to try it, see more people, and dont think its a ghost town.
I dare anyone to tell me why everyone running shown templates, or more shown templates would hurt siege? Any takers?
*note*
Thanks kelmo and petra for letting us have so much leach here on siege forums
P.S.
Drax your last thread sucked, couldnt even get 2000 views before it was locked. Pfft, clearly this is a minor topic in the hardcore world of siege.
That's quite a stretch to say 80% of the stealthers enjoy it. And successful? LOL! A dwindling population and playerbase that is playing other servers and other versions of UO doesn't exactly sound all that successful.People play UO for entertainment. If 80% are stealthers that's what they enjoy doing. It would seem a suicidal business plan for the devs to start messing around with something that is successful on Siege, to appease the other 20% because they come crying on a forum.Siege is 80% stealthers
Oh look at the response this new guy gets.is everyone in stealth mode? I only saw 2 players during the whole day. this is very discouraging, since I wanted to give uo (siege) one last shot before finally selling my account off.
Nope sorry. Addressing stealth is the hottest topic on these forums. Safe to say that something will be done about it.We are here , we dont hang out at luna or any other banks to say forsure. Yes, most run steath for now. If ya shout out in General Chat you can talk and people will respond. Ask way, we are here to help....
UO evolved Fel...Ole Cheapy had the best point in this thread, but it was glossed over. Unfortunatly the problem can not be solved so easy. Stealth is not the probem. I have had stealth on my template since before some of you were on Siege, or maybe even played UO. I still have stealth, but I cannot use a smoke bomb(ninja skill), turn into a mouse, rat, cat, dog..elephant(ninja skill), use bok's, I think that is the term(ninja skill)..see the theme here.
Stealth was not a problem before the ninja skill came along. It took skill to get away from a group or person with regular stealth. Now one can pop a smoke bomb and scoot away in the form of some rodent or house pet--that is not feature of stealth, it a feature of the ninja skill.
If people us detect corectly, my stealth(non-ninja) is somewhat easy to combat...I wish I could pop smoke and scurry away.
I also agree with Arden, passive detect has no place on this server, if i have skill to avoid someone, that person should need skill to find me, not just get a good "dice" roll.
All of these polls, threads and such should be about the ninja skill. Not many people ran stealth on Siege before the ninja skill came about...take that to thought.
Lol funny but true.Learn to use the skills to counter Stealth. We are tired of YOUR crying.
BFF = biggest collective group of legendary crybabies this shard has ever seen! Whaaaaah, nerf stealthers, Whaaaaaah, nerf smoke bombs, Whaaaaaaah, make it so people can't run in the house, Whaaaaaaah, we were outnumbered, Whaaaaaaaah why you gotta use pets, Whaaaaaaaah, nerf tamers, Whaaaaah nerf pet balls and make tamers use their siege bless to bless their pets, Whaaaaaah nerf dismounters, Whaaaaaah, I don't wanna farm, Whaaaaaaaaah, make my armor cheaper! Whaaaaaah, whaaaaaaah, whaaaaaaah!!!
If you're the best pvper's on the shard, you shouldn't need so much help from the devs.
Pot + Kettle = DraxousGuess who were some who voted against fixing detect hidden? Yep, Arden. A guy who doesn't even have an active UO account.
People who don't want passive detect are a minority, get over it.