First off...my point was that archers have the benefit of staying away from others. The person I resonded to mentioned archers cannot disarm so I brought up a specific template as part of point-counter-point.
I was specifically responding to S!ckLoveR's statement about Archer's using disarm against his meleer, which my response of an archer voluntarily giving up range to melee was also a counterpoint.
Second...UBWS doesnt work for an archer. That is why they rely on a secondary wep skill.
I just tested this and you're correct. I was basing my information on a thread that was in the archery forum a while back in which someone had stated that UBWS on bows no longer worked, but an archer could use a UBWS melee weapon for disarm. I see now after testing it that information was incorrect.
Third...again...I was specific. A char with a secondary wep skill is going to use thier melee skill with SPECIFIC intent of disarming and bleeding, all other attacks are done with a distance wep.
Which still doesn't change the fact that the archer is meleeing, not using a bow. Going against a meleer template, the archer is at a big disadvantage, so I still stand on my point that a meleer shouldn't be complaining about an archer giving up their only defense to melee.
Fourth...this template is quite popular...if you are an archer you should know it.
It might be popular in the PvP world, but I haven't seen any on my side of the fence. Again, I was going off of incorrect information that I had no reason to doubt up until now.
lol...no I didnt...in most cases archers cannot disarm, I never went against this thought. bolas? what does this have to do with anything I said?
Then why is it such a big issue? If an archer is putting 120 points into a weapon skill that they'll rarely succeed with against a meleer, I'm not seeing where a meleer would be complaining about it. I'd think the meleer would be glad to see an archer coming into melee range.
I mentioned bolas because of my point of the meleer disarming the archer themselves, then turning around and dismounting them.
Most mages in UO whom pvp do not have parry. Why? Because if you have less than 80 dex it is almost pointless putting 120 skill points in. Second...mages cant use specials with mage weps, but I see you didnt know this...so I wont chew you on it. btw...yes, an archer could effectively sqeeze parry into a template...but it would be pointless.
I do know about the dex requirement, and a mage that doesn't have parry shouldn't be complaining about getting hit more often. They're giving up a strong defensive skill in favor of something else, most likely offensive.
Any char using a weapon must have tactics to use weapon specials. The only exceptions are by having poisoning or else using wrestling.
I know this also, which is why I mentioned using a mage weapon heavy crossbow for dismounting on a mage that also has parry.
for crying out loud conner...a bow can have 25 dci...pair that up with fey legs and the quiver and you have 50 DCI!!!
And with a shield you can get 15 HCI AND 15 DCI. Add that to a ring/brace, a weapon that can also have 15 HCI and 15 DCI, along with quite a few different armor pieces, and you can overcap both easily. Also, certain runic crafted melee weapons can have 21 DCI. I know this because I recently made one.
and parry? who cares? with 50 dci and an opponent 8 tiles away...what good does parry do for an archer? so why even bring it up as a point in an arguement?
Because it's a weakness in the template, and if they're going up against a meleer that does have parry, the archer is at the disadvantage because of it.
first off...those modifiers dont cancel each other out. HLA and HLD trump both DCI and HCI. Also...120 wep vs 120 wep is not even if one char has HLD or HLA...those numbers change considerably.
I do realize this. I specifically said if BOTH have each, then they cancel each other out, not if one has it and one doesn't. That's an entirely different scenario.
And parry? perhaps if you are considering two dex monkies dishing it out next to each other...then perhaps yes I will agree with you. Otherwise...parry means jack to the archer. Why? Because I can mow down any dexxer with the right bows without ever having to worry about having to stand like an idiot next to him and shoot.
We're not talking about an archer constantly maintaining range, we're talking about an archer going into melee range to melee against a meleer with a template that has Parry.
Cuz that's exactly what we're talking about.
I'm talking specifically about archers meleeing with a meleer. You're the one bringing up other templates and scenarios.
parry has nothing to do with an archer...why do you even bother bring it up. A good archer will never need parry, ever. An archer is a distance char...and is flexible because of this. (moving shots for dexxers...conc blows and mortals for mages...every class has an arrow just for it bud)
Again, we're not talking about archers constantly maintaining distance. We're talking about an archer meleeing with a meleer. The meleer has the advantage in this situation because they have Parry and the archer doesn't.
and no...we arent talking about that. thats how you chose to respond...not what I wrote about.
I responded in terms of the specific situation. You generalized.
Different perspective is one thing...changing around what I say to fit your own needs is indeed twisting reality. You took a simple and truthful statement on an archer rule of defense and shifted its logic to fit your own purpose. Then you argued about it.
No, we're just talking about 2 different things. I'm not quite sure why.
me? all I did was went with my experience...which like it or not I have too much of. on the flip side I have no issues admitting being wrong...but first you have to prove it. have fun!!
I've admitted when I was wrong in the past, and have done so again in this thread. You may not be wrong in things you've said, but then we're not exactly on the same page here.
(Lord Blackthron and Modain are up there) 
