Mh..why not leave insurance as it is and implement this?

[Tak]

Item insurance is a must have these days, but makes life boring for thiefes and PVPers. So, why not add this with SA?

Every player has a kill and steal list. You dont get points or rewards if you kill the same guy several times in a row or steal from him.

Let player choose what artefact they want to risk. If a player is defeated in PVP, other player could loot that artefact. If the player wins, he can loot enemies artefact and gets a reward (points, whatever) according to the artefact level he risked.

A thief who fails to steal would generate reward for his victim and mh..would drop his artefact...several tiles away..xD

That system could be used for many things (PVE, PVP, Thiefery) and wouldnt force people to lose their valuable stuff. If they risk it, its their fault..

In PVE it could serve as a permanent spring cleaning

 

[Kith Kanan]

and that would stop nakid thiefs from griefing other players how ???

If usefull at all the idea would have to be modified so you staked gold , and peopel could only win an amount equal to the amount they thmeself had put on stake.. so if you put 100k on stake and kill a guy who had a million on stake , you would get 100k not a penny more

 

[Viper09]

and that would stop nakid thiefs from griefing other players how ???

If usefull at all the idea would have to be modified so you staked gold , and peopel could only win an amount equal to the amount they thmeself had put on stake.. so if you put 100k on stake and kill a guy who had a million on stake , you would get 100k not a penny more

Read below

Uhm, what the heck is this argument about thieves with 0 gear? Do you have any idea how quickly a thief with 0 gear will die in fel? I have seen these guys try to make it even now days with 0 gear in fel. You know what happens? The minute he/she is Id'ed as a thief, BAM, he/shes dead. Whether it be two spells or 2-3 good hard wacks with a weapon, they will be dead so fast. PvPers know how to eliminate even poor geared new players sitting in the guard zone. I think you need to give PvPers a little credit here on tracking their targets.

I am pretty sure that even if they did remove insurance that 0 gear thieves would not stand a very big chance on even surviving that long. Yeah, there are some good ones out there, but get real, people with 0 gear can get wacked quickly, if not before they steal, after they steal. After all, you can't even hide right after you steal.

QFTW :loser:

 

[Nexus]

and that would stop nakid thiefs from griefing other players how ???

Your still under the same delusion that just because years ago the mechanics of the game allowed naked thieves to be successful they would still be so. Go do some reading over the Thief Forums, find out what's changed on their end of things in the past half decade or so.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

and that would stop nakid thiefs from griefing other players how ???

If usefull at all the idea would have to be modified so you staked gold , and peopel could only win an amount equal to the amount they thmeself had put on stake.. so if you put 100k on stake and kill a guy who had a million on stake , you would get 100k not a penny more

Read below

Uhm, what the heck is this argument about thieves with 0 gear? Do you have any idea how quickly a thief with 0 gear will die in fel? I have seen these guys try to make it even now days with 0 gear in fel. You know what happens? The minute he/she is Id'ed as a thief, BAM, he/shes dead. Whether it be two spells or 2-3 good hard wacks with a weapon, they will be dead so fast. PvPers know how to eliminate even poor geared new players sitting in the guard zone. I think you need to give PvPers a little credit here on tracking their targets.

I am pretty sure that even if they did remove insurance that 0 gear thieves would not stand a very big chance on even surviving that long. Yeah, there are some good ones out there, but get real, people with 0 gear can get wacked quickly, if not before they steal, after they steal. After all, you can't even hide right after you steal.

QFTW :loser:

0 gear thieves used to be brutally effective.

You are msising the whole point. With the thief it was never about dying. Dying was of 0 consequence. The thief did not care if he died 500 times a night because he knew that he would always get his items. Lather/Rinse/Repeat.
Saying that being a thief was risky because of death is a total joke.

Dying with 0 gear cost him nothing. The nice gear he stole netted him a ton of gold and more importantly, bragging/griefing rights.

 

[Viper09]

0 gear thieves used to be brutally effective.

You are msising the whole point. With the thief it was never about dying. Dying was of 0 consequence. The thief did not care if he died 500 times a night because he knew that he would always get his items. Lather/Rinse/Repeat.
Saying that being a thief was risky because of death is a total joke.

Dying with 0 gear cost him nothing. The nice gear he stole netted him a ton of gold and more importantly, bragging/griefing rights.

Yes, but, you see, when you die, the item is lost. When you die, whatever target was there could most likely be gone. If people are around constantly wacking the thief who has 0 gear with a couple spells or wacks of a weapon, you don't exactly have a chance to steal anything. Since AOS, I have never seen a 0 gear thief effectively do diddly-squat other than serve as target practice whenever he was caught out of the guard zone out of hiding.

Sure, if you're good enough at running and getting away from the PvPers out there, a naked thief can be effective. But that would take a lot of experience and skill to survive now days. You go and try it then if you are so certain it can be done so easily.

 

[Nexus]

Yes, but, you see, when you die, the item is lost. When you die, whatever target was there could most likely be gone. If people are around constantly wacking the thief who has 0 gear with a couple spells or wacks of a weapon, you don't exactly have a chance to steal anything. Since AOS, I have never seen a 0 gear thief effectively do diddly-squat other than serve as target practice whenever he was caught out of the guard zone out of hiding.

Don't forget under the current rules which were not offered to be changed if you dies within a certain period items are automatically returned to the player you stole from.

What's really bothering me is these people up in arms against any revitalization of thieves is they don't understand or aren't interested in knowing how current game mechanics invalidate 80% of their arguments. With today's rules that haven't been asked to be changed if you remove Insurance a Basic Thief needs to expend 505 skill points just to get into someone's pack and be able acquire an item before he's seen, and a means to attempt to escape. For those that don't know I'll give a break down. That leaves what 215 points left depending on account age?

• 120 Stealing Limits you to 12 stone and under items..
• 100 Snooping No Failure point
• 100 Hiding 50% reveal on a Failed Snoop and Less distance required to hide from aggressors.
• 75 Stealth
• 110 Ninjitsu Shadow Jump to overcome Passive Reveal and for Animal Form (110 is for High Success Rate in Animal Form)to get away.

If someone wants a Disarm they are going to need to at least 140 points dedicated to doing so. Odds on Wrestle since you can't steal with a weapon in hand. So minimum of 70 wrestle and tactics Your 215 has dropped to 75 points. Now you've got a choice you want to walk everywhere and have no means to heal or do you want a bit of Parry for defense? With parry and Bushido out there how often is a 70/70 Wrestler going to land that special strike to disarm on the first go these days? Odds are if the wants to really attempt to be successful he's going to devote 100/100 since if he's "Naked" HCI isn't a factor. Tell me how useful is that other 15 points in skill? Carry a second weapon and he's done, he can't hide till the skill timer goes off after a steal, If he drops Ninjitsu out for more points or Stealth out I doubt he's sneaking up on you....Where oh Where is this an advantage under the current game mechanics minus only Insurance for the thief?

 

[Beldon]

If you have wrestling, you need zero tactics to disarm someone.

 

[Viper09]

If you have wrestling, you need zero tactics to disarm someone.

yeah, and?

If you are trying to build off of the 0 gear thief topic, keep in mind that if by chance, you miss and he/she hits you, you're screwed. Because PvPers tend to have a little thing called DCI and HCI, whereas most, if not all thieves, do not have.

 

[Sir Kenga]

Don't forget under the current rules which were not offered to be changed if you dies within a certain period items are automatically returned to the player you stole from.

What's really bothering me is these people up in arms against any revitalization of thieves is they don't understand or aren't interested in knowing how current game mechanics invalidate 80% of their arguments. With today's rules that haven't been asked to be changed if you remove Insurance a Basic Thief needs to expend 505 skill points just to get into someone's pack and be able acquire an item before he's seen, and a means to attempt to escape.

So you are basically saying that 505 skill point thief with 0 gear is deadly successful in stealing, and should be allowed to grief everyone? lol

 

[Beldon]

If you have wrestling, you need zero tactics to disarm someone.

yeah, and?

If you are trying to build off of the 0 gear thief topic, keep in mind that if by chance, you miss and he/she hits you, you're screwed. Because PvPers tend to have a little thing called DCI and HCI, whereas most, if not all thieves, do not have.

I was just correcting Nexus. Is your position so weak it cannot survive being accurate?

 

[ShadowJack]

if you take insurance out of fel, the thieves really wont have much to steal again anyhow, because no one will take it there



You confuse thief with grief


but if you go to fel and don't mind dying


you shouldn't mind getting stolen from



you die and have NO loss in fel.


The thief keeps every class on it's toes.

 

[Nexus]

So you are basically saying that 505 skill point thief with 0 gear is deadly successful in stealing, and should be allowed to grief everyone? lol

I'm saying with 505 points dedicated to just being able to be a successful thief, what's stoping your 720 points dedicated to dealing damage and defense from stopping me after I get your goodies? That 505 is before adding any wrestle/tactics or anything else needed for Disarm.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

I'm saying with 505 points dedicated to just being able to be a successful thief, what's stoping your 720 points dedicated to dealing damage and defense from stopping me after I get your goodies?

what stopping them? eight steps and you disappear...with little method of being revealed. Their 720 skill points are worthless against your 200+ points of hiding and stealth skill.

 

[Nexus]

what stopping them? eight steps and you disappear...with little method of being revealed. Their 720 skill points are worthless against your 200+ points of hiding and stealth skill.

You mean before or after we have to wait out the skill timer? There's that to factor in, we can't just vanish we have to wait to hide. Does that or does it not give you time to retaliate? If I do Hide toss a Conflag pot if I'm flagged, if your of opposite Noto or I'm flagged cast EQ it's not impossible to reveal a thief just like it's not impossible to make your pack 100% thief proof, you can do it for around 15 gp if you know how.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

You mean before or after we have to wait out the skill timer? There's that to factor in, we can't just vanish we have to wait to hide. Does that or does it not give you time to retaliate? If I do Hide toss a Conflag pot if I'm flagged, if your of opposite Noto or I'm flagged cast EQ it's not impossible to reveal a thief just like it's not impossible to make your pack 100% thief proof.

Having a thief proof pack is moot. I dont consider two seconds enough time to retaliate vs. someone whom hides via the 8 step method else via invis pot. Revealing a thief? EQ has little effect with this and neither does the reveal spell vs. high enough level hiding/stealth. Carrying around conflag pots just to fend off grifing thieves really isnt my cup of tea either...especially when playing a red most of the time.

 

[Nexus]

Having a thief proof pack is moot. I dont consider two seconds enough time to retaliate vs. someone whom hides via the 8 step method else via invis pot. Revealing a thief? EQ has little effect with this and neither does the reveal spell vs. high enough level hiding/stealth. Carrying around conflag pots just to fend off grifing thieves really isnt my cup of tea either...especially when playing a red most of the time.

Good thing for you it's a 10 sec timer, does it take you more time than that to react to someone attacking you? Probably not. Also you can't use Smoke Bombs during that time, Invis pots have a delay before they hide you giving you, as the victim time to retaliate. If there were all these naked thieves running around chugging Invis pots how many are going to stand still or walk slowly while you wail away on them to let the invis take effect? While Reveal is ineffective against high level hiding I never mentioned that spell, I know it's a waste of time on someone with GM hiding, but I have been revealed by the other methods, not always but a good portion of the time.

In the end though your best defense against a thief is thief proofing your pack making it the least moot point when discussing how to avoid thieves. Why you and others make the assumption that thieves are only out to grief other players is beyond me honestly, when a group raids a spawn and kills the people there to take the scrolls is it griefing? Same difference just less violence....