A proposed idea to finally FIX fel/pvp/stealing/risk v reward!!/INSURANCE!!

[Radun]

I'm going to say something no one wants to hear - if you want people BACK in Fel - dont make equipment cursed make it blessed.

The issue is not lack of items and the desire to have more (from victims) - the issue is lack of people (again, victims).

More people will give pvp and 2x resources a go (no, not everyone or even most).

yep, lots of people don't go to fel, because they don't want to lose all that insurance gold.
the relatively small number of people in fel is a good example of how the risk is already high enough for the amount of reward you get for going there.

 

[kelmo]

Not a very good idea until they make specific items easier to replace.

Stop making sense.

 

[Nexus]

making everything cursed whenever you enter fel will:

1) kill all events in pvp other than those designed specifically for pvp

What events in PvP? Champ spawns? Nah people will still do them. Items will be cheaper to replace because you won't be wearing 20-200mil in gear so you won't mind risking it as much.

2) kill any efforts to complete quests requiring visits to fel

I can think of only 1 quest outside the multitude of escort quests that require you to go to Fel, and you never have to leave Guard Zone to do it.

3) reduce the population of fel even more.. prompting even more threads on these forums where there is wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth on how to get more peeps to fel

How so? Because the PvPers finally prove they are as Carebear as everyone else? How about this if you knew it was easy to replace gear, because you didn't take valuable items there would you be less or more inclined to try PvP? If you knew you didn't have to compete with uber suits and wacked out templates would you be more or less inclined to try it?

4) actually will put another nail in the pvp coffin.. peeps who don't cheat and run hack programs will never be able to compete and will have 100% certainty of loosing their items every time they attempt to pvp

People who run cheats and hacks die to Ganks every day I see it happen, Gank the cheaters a few times once they can't replace all the Uber goodies it won't matter they will be on a level playing field.

5) create more pressure of peeps who just want to have fun to load up said illegal programs

I don't think so, because the programs ultimately can't replace real skill as a player. Remove the uber suits/jewels/weapon combos where they have to actually focus instead of the gear keeping them alive while the script runs and Wow....how bout that you can kill them. Might still be harder but it wouldn't have the dramatic difference it does now, because Scripts don't speed up bandages, they don't remove timers on Heal pots, and not having items to boost your Hits as high means you have to deal less damage in less time to knock them out of the fight.

6) Lead to a massive uproar against EA to fix the cheating

Possibly the best thing that can happen. But then again why would you see this as a bad thing unless you were one of the cheaters?

7) Create loss of revenue to EA when peeps who love to pvp legally drop their subscriptions to move to the uber game of the day

While opening the doors to the masses that would come back because of a Non-Item dominated PvP experience. Mainly it's the people who would be effected by a crack down on cheating that you said would probably happen and those that really don't care about PvP but more about being a jerk would be the one's leaving. Not the Players who truly enjoy PvP they would adapt as they've always done.

8) Create one hell of a mess when EA patches a "fix" to stop the hacking programs and the unintended byproduct is even greater problem then the hacking

Meaning it what that a few bugs are created? How many patches have we seen that don't have a bug or two? Crash the Items for $$$ market, that could be a side effect couldn't it? What could be bad about stopping cheating? Even if it messed up a few things accidentally I'm sure most of the honest players would be more willing to deal with patches to fix mistakes if it ment cheating went out the window.

9) result in loss of massive subscriptions

This proposal would only effect the Fel players, the PvPers not those that just live in Fel. PvP is not the majority player base, or play style if everyone that PvP's now left and half those that quit over desire for a pre-AoS style PvP system, which this would lean towards returned, UO would go up in subscriptions.

10) high probability of destruction of UO.

No, wouldn't happen that way there skippy. For it to Destroy UO it would have to remove a majority of the player base. Not the PvP minority, even part of the PvPers would stay as they don't just PvP only, or they would be willing to adapt to the changes that for some may be a desired change.

 

[Radun]

Everyone wins no?

no.

this change would make all the good equipment people built up - pointless.
if they were going make insurance tram-only, the time to do it would have been back when they introduced insurance... not after years of making people work long and hard to acquire the best equipment... just to make all that work irrelevant.

the thread's title should read: a proposed idea to BREAK fel/pvp/insurance

 

[ShadowJack]

everything you do right now in fel, can be moved to trammel. We had the whole game and people like you took it. You didn't make it a hit, there aren't large numbers of players. Instead of going so off balance, put fel to rights


Maybe there will be other people who would enjoy it and come back. Your way playing didn't work, ours didn't work. Let's have the both at the same time and see what happens.

 

[ShadowJack]

I'm going to say something no one wants to hear - if you want people BACK in Fel - dont make equipment cursed make it blessed.

The issue is not lack of items and the desire to have more (from victims) - the issue is lack of people (again, victims).

More people will give pvp and 2x resources a go (no, not everyone or even most).

This is an idea that lead to trammel in the first place and didn't work

 

[ShadowJack]

no.

this change would make all the good equipment people built up - pointless.
if they were going make insurance tram-only, the time to do it would have been back when they introduced insurance... not after years of making people work long and hard to acquire the best equipment... just to make all that work irrelevant.

the thread's title should read: a proposed idea to BREAK fel/pvp/insurance

that's the whole point, the game is all about items, don't you get it? You work and your goal is items. Not to finish your char, but to finish your char and get the best stuff.

The concept doesn't work for a fel enviroment, you just gimp up the people who'd own you without all of that fancy stuff.


Item based pvp needs to be in trammel. The mindsets of both facets need to be divided and work against each other, not have trammel be ruined by fel mindset players, and visa versa.

If you are holding on to FEL like it is now, then you aren't playing fel, you are playing watered down trammel.


And you obviously have something to lose by the change, which is why you are fighting it. We've lost it all 100x over. Give us a turn.

 

[Kith Kanan]

Why? explanation please? or just a knee jerk i dont wanna lose all my stuff response?

And as for bobbing off to siege theres more to that shard than just no insurance and no trammel. there is a totally different playstyle there, I do actually play there although ive recently been forced to delete my char to make a new one

I dont want the whole harder experience of siege on all prod shards, just a little more fel in fel

OH and incase you think this is all self serving, i cannot pvp at all.. i mean like not even a little bit. only time i goto fel is to mine and lj occasionally ill go bum around there and watch people fight but i suck at pvp.. so really if this went live it would hinder me more.. but its a GOOD idea... if you wanna tell me why its not.. other than "oh i just dont like it its fine as it is"

If you like my shid offer to buy it.. no griefer gets my stuff for free with zero risk............ I remember naked wrestle/disarm thiefs to well to be fooled by any sweet talk

 

[ShadowJack]

yeah we got too good and got nerfed for it, but the fact is thieves got so good that we were a valid challenge in fel, we'd kill you back, steal your regs, take your wep and spank you with it. And laugh at you for not learning how to be better.

80% of the people I disarmed attacked me first, before or without me stealing from them.


Some were dumb enough to go get 10 swords to lose in a row without switching to a halberd, or taking time to learn to fight the thief.


I never had problems with thieves on my non thief chars, I knew the skill set and how they worked and had them beat.




When gimp thieves took over, I took my mage to the bank and would kill them with exp/fs cause I started griefing them back. I didn't hit the message boards and cry about it.


everything that is in fel now will fit into trammel. The people opposed to the change are sitting pretty, and don't want to lose they l33t pking they do


The modern day pk is a gimp. The thief is dead, no one is in fel still. The powerscrolls which everyone seems to love to death (another item) can be moved to trammel, where real fel players could give a crap. Open fel back up, not for items but for the criminal element, the murderer, the thief, the looter, the house hider, the assassin. We don't need powerscrolls to have hot spots, we don't need a little Yew gate with a bunch of houses around it to pvp. That stuff is gimped and belongs on the other facet.

Like I said, you've had your day in the sun, balance the game out again, and bring it to a middle ground of the new players and the old. If you put old style rules in fel, you bring back the old players. If you quit UO over that, then bye bye, you can go play every other game out there that is just like it. The games that all of you whined about and changed UO to be and still failed the game. At least this way there is a 50/50 dynamic between shards, and to be honest, most people will play both, and have chars that do different things on both.

 

[Nexus]

If you like my shid offer to buy it.. no griefer gets my stuff for free with zero risk............ I remember naked wrestle/disarm thiefs to well to be fooled by any sweet talk

Disarm thieves wouldn't be all that much of a problem to be honest. If Nothing other than the effects of blessed and insured items in Fel were to change. Look at it this way, it wouldn't be long until Items weren't the influencing factor in Fel anymore...Characters would be stuck working within the Max Skill cap of 720 points, or less depending on account age, not 720 + what they can get from Mods. Working towards the Idea of a Disarm thief while possible removes some of the stronger defenses in the class. If you carry a second weapon the Thief is toast as soon as you catch him, why? Because he can't allocate but a small portion of his skill points towards combat related skills, almost if he's restricted to a Hard Cap, if he's a disarm and you have a second weapon he's stuck in sight unable to hide till the skill timer wears off, unless he can do a Shadow Strike on you, if he can't then all he can do is run which gives you a chance to retaliate. I'm not saying it's not possible but it's less likely under the Skill+Tactics rule than it was years ago where it was aligned towards the weapon skill only.

 

[Nexus]

yeah we got too good and got nerfed for it, but the fact is thieves got so good that we were a valid challenge in fel, we'd kill you back, steal your regs, take your wep and spank you with it. And laugh at you for not learning how to be better.

Like the post I just did with other changes that have gone into the game Disarm thieves aren't as big a threat as they were then. Back then disarm didn't use up mana, Disarm didn't require Tactics I don't beleive, all in all by removing item influence from Fel combined with these and other additions like passive reveal and forcing players in Fel to more or less work within the 720 skill points as a hard cap you would virtually eliminate the room for a Disarm thief to have all the skills he needs to be successful. There would be a few but they wouldn't have the influence they did back then.

 

[OldAsTheHills]

I propose that fel becomes less carebare in one simple way. for insurance/bless purposes make everything cursed... just while in fel... ok now all you "omg but i goto fel sometimes i dont wanna lose my stuff!!" Hear me out!

People goto fel for two reasons, to pvp and for extra rewards.

Now reason one.. i assume alot of pvpers will tell you that it was better BEFORE it was item based, and the only reason they play prod instead of siege is because of all the other factors not because of insurance. Then theres the pvpers who just wanna pvp without losing their items.. well.. theres guild wars in trammel and i doubt it would be hard for the devs to nock up a everyman for himself faction type stone/arena in tram, you join /enter the arena and theres insured pvp! woo no counts maybe there? who knows

then theres reason two! Extra rewards... guess what... the reason theres extra rewards in fel is coz theres extra risk... that risk currently is a small amount of time lost when you die... thats not really a big risk for an extra 100% reward right? hmm i mean really death via pvp in fel and death via monster in tram. only difference? you lose bandies and regs in fel and you cant avoid death as easy as invising or running away from the stupid and slow monster

(oh and yes you can totally learn to pvm WITHOUT arties.. guess what!? we killed balrons and aw;s before arties too )

Everyone wins no?
Thieves get re boosted. PVP has now even more options and more depth, its win win?, the risk vrs reward is actually a risk. (you can even boost the reward if people wanna cry about it and its unscriptable because no ones gonna be able to afk kill anything worthwhile in gm armor and no scriptor is going to be safe in fel if people actually get something out of killing them)

I know its a RADICAL change, but i see no downside, your covering all bases and reintroducing (for me) one of the best templates and playstyles in the game.

and if you wanna flame me and say it wouldnt work and you wouldnt pvp,, look at siege it works people

PLEASE IF YOUR GOING TO CONTRIBUTE IN ANYWAY PLEASE EXPLAIN... otherwise you have no reason to post.

I really wish you understand that some items MUST be blessed in this game.
You are ignoring the developers decision on this.
If all items are cursed on the Felucca side then the templates which contain
any form of spells will FAIL ! Magery, Spellweaving, Chivalry, Ninjitsu, Bushido,
and Necromancy require that BLESSED spell book. This will reduce the templates
to martial based skills, special weapon moves, poisoning, etc...have it your way
this will happen. More likely, no one would risk for the only reward worth doing
on the Felucca side, that is Stat scrolls and Power skill scrolls.

The developers will not listen to this idea...move on.

*stares*
Yahaxithonix

 

[Radun]

that's the whole point, the game is all about items, don't you get it? You work and your goal is items. Not to finish your char, but to finish your char and get the best stuff.

OH... you need to get items to be competitive? I didn't realize that. boy is my face red.....
Seriously, where's the problem with that?

The concept doesn't work for a fel enviroment, you just gimp up the people who'd own you without all of that fancy stuff.

Sure does work. Just because someone has 'the fancy stuff' doesn't automatically make someone good at pvp. and besides, there isn't a huge rift between 'haves' and 'have nots' like there used to be. Everyone in pvp has nice stuff these days. This point is very outdated.

Item based pvp needs to be in trammel. The mindsets of both facets need to be divided and work against each other, not have trammel be ruined by fel mindset players, and visa versa.

uh, what? how in the current system do players from the different facets ruin eachother's world?

If you are holding on to FEL like it is now, then you aren't playing fel, you are playing watered down trammel.

I just checked the moongate, and it does indeed say Felucca... not 'watered down trammel'.

And you obviously have something to lose by the change, which is why you are fighting it. We've lost it all 100x over. Give us a turn.

hecks ya i have something to lose... i'm not trying to keep it a secret or anything... how about everything I've worked for (over YEARS) since AOS?

 

[Radun]

The modern day pk is a gimp

Did you know that you're misusing that word? What you said actually means 'modern pk is underpowered'...

Besides that... Did you know that it's a highly offensive slur?

And finally.... Did you know that you're completely off topic? This thread has nothing at all to do with PKing.

 

[Wenchkin]

This post was lost in stupidity by the first sentance. UO has always been item based. if you say anything else then you are the type of people who screamed for insurance to begin with. Insurance gave the people who could not afford to go get powers and vanqs and invul armour the opportunity to pvp on the same level as everyone else.

If people want to run on shards where insurance is not available they have the opportunity to do so. No one is allowed to post anything else in subject to the removal of insurance or "balancing pvp". you dont like something adapt if you dont have something go get it. quit crying and trying to change a game with weak enhancments

Insurance did not help the new folks in PvP at all. Without insurance if you kill someone with good kit, you can loot that kit and improve your own. With it, he loses nothing but insurance gold. You pay as much to insure your crappy kit as he does his l337 suit. That's fair to you? That no matter how well you've done to defeat a superior suit and template, you get the same as you would for killing a miner bot? Oh please!

When was Fel ever about "safe" PvP anyway? That's what Tram is for. If you don't want to lose items, you stay in Tram. You don't come to Fel and pretend you're tough when all you want to risk is a few k gold. You set up a guild war with guilds in Tram and have a great life there playing with the shiny items.

If folks looted good kit before AoS, it often went to Tram where it was sold or kept safe. That risk made it easier to compete kit-wise in Fel and many of us did so in pretty basic kit. Because folks knew they'd risk the uber stuff if they died, and that going out like Mr l337 2008 was a sure fire way to get ganked senseless. You had to be able to defend the suit you wore or risk losing it, which raised the stakes if you took risks. And if you managed to defeat that l337 dude, you got a reward that was actually satisfying. Insurance gold? Yick. Whether you like it or not, that is how Fel should have stayed. There should be more risk for rich kids in fancy suits than the guy with a basic GM armour. You shouldn't be wandering around going "look at my fancy rings and valubles" in a lawless environment. It's a completely false situation.

Wenchy

 

[Spree]

semantics of facts here

Vanq was actually 40
gm 35
Power 30
(fairly sure anyway but vanqs were 100% not 50)

Wrong GM was 20

 

[Yalp]

What events in PvP? Champ spawns? Nah people will still do them. Items will be cheaper to replace because you won't be wearing 20-200mil in gear so you won't mind risking it as much.

I can think of only 1 quest outside the multitude of escort quests that require you to go to Fel, and you never have to leave Guard Zone to do it.

How so? Because the PvPers finally prove they are as Carebear as everyone else? How about this if you knew it was easy to replace gear, because you didn't take valuable items there would you be less or more inclined to try PvP? If you knew you didn't have to compete with uber suits and wacked out templates would you be more or less inclined to try it?

People who run cheats and hacks die to Ganks every day I see it happen, Gank the cheaters a few times once they can't replace all the Uber goodies it won't matter they will be on a level playing field.

I don't think so, because the programs ultimately can't replace real skill as a player. Remove the uber suits/jewels/weapon combos where they have to actually focus instead of the gear keeping them alive while the script runs and Wow....how bout that you can kill them. Might still be harder but it wouldn't have the dramatic difference it does now, because Scripts don't speed up bandages, they don't remove timers on Heal pots, and not having items to boost your Hits as high means you have to deal less damage in less time to knock them out of the fight.

Possibly the best thing that can happen. But then again why would you see this as a bad thing unless you were one of the cheaters?

While opening the doors to the masses that would come back because of a Non-Item dominated PvP experience. Mainly it's the people who would be effected by a crack down on cheating that you said would probably happen and those that really don't care about PvP but more about being a jerk would be the one's leaving. Not the Players who truly enjoy PvP they would adapt as they've always done.

Meaning it what that a few bugs are created? How many patches have we seen that don't have a bug or two? Crash the Items for $$$ market, that could be a side effect couldn't it? What could be bad about stopping cheating? Even if it messed up a few things accidentally I'm sure most of the honest players would be more willing to deal with patches to fix mistakes if it ment cheating went out the window.

This proposal would only effect the Fel players, the PvPers not those that just live in Fel. PvP is not the majority player base, or play style if everyone that PvP's now left and half those that quit over desire for a pre-AoS style PvP system, which this would lean towards returned, UO would go up in subscriptions.

No, wouldn't happen that way there skippy. For it to Destroy UO it would have to remove a majority of the player base. Not the PvP minority, even part of the PvPers would stay as they don't just PvP only, or they would be willing to adapt to the changes that for some may be a desired change.

Hard to know where to start.. first off.. on the cheating programs.. that is exactly what they do.. speed up movement, healing time, casting time, movement restrictions, terrain restrictions, and game mechanics. Even with the exact same gear, and honest pvp'r can not compete. Anyone who denies that is trying to delude themselves or worse, intentionally mislead on these boards.

Secondly, plenty of peeps attempt to hold events on fel side, that don't involve pvp. These events draw peeps who rarely set foot in fel because they either don't want to be attacked or they can not compete with those who regularly pvp. TCurrently, such gatherings are often attacked and the event disrupted by the very peeps who cry about fel being deserted and/or being tired of pvp'ing against the same few peeps/guilds. Knowing you will die and loose all your gear 100% of the time you go to fel will absolutely KILL any non-pvp'rs desire to go to fel... ever.. for any reason.

Third, pvp'rs work the odds. If they figure they have a ... let's say 75% chance of losing against any given opponent.. do you think they will engage in pvp? Or do you figure they will skip the pvp? Especially if they know they will loose everything? If they know they have a 75% chance of winning every encounter, they will be more likely to pvp.

How do you think they would make those determinations? (assuming they are completely honest in their gameplay) By the gear/weapon they hold.. and that would make the prices of gear go UP not down. If I have an uber fork with 5 kick ass properties, and is faster than every other fork out there, you think I'm gonna drop that price on my vendor? Hell no.. gonna raise it to the sky limit, cause I know those elite pvp'rs have to have it Basic supply and demand principles.. Huge demand.. small supply = sky high prices.

Fourth, now let's assume all things are equal. pvp'r A has the exact same template, armor & weapon as pvp'r B, A meets B out in the field. Maybe A is a little faster on the macros. Maybe B doesn't run the same macros. A wins this battle. Takes all of B's gear.. even if it crap, he takes it, just for the ingots/leather. Pvp'r B gets frustrated. Pvp'r B goes out to the tubes of the internet and searches for "supplemental" pvp strategy and lo' and behold finds the numerous sites promising if you just run xxx program you can run faster, heal faster, ignore game mechanics, etc etc.. and pvp'r B loads up on these. Now pvp'r B comes across pvp'r A in the field again. Same equipment, same armor, same weapon, same macros, new "supplementals". Pvp'r B wins this round. Pvp'r A scratches his head. Knows he owned pvp'r B before, wonders how he managed to defeat him this time, moving faster, healing faster, casting faster, hmm... pvp'r A wonders but moves on.. rezzes, engages pvp'r C who also owns him. Again he moves on to pvp'r D who owns him. He sees the pattern of other pvp'rs moving, casting, healing, all faster, he sees them moving though game mechanics designed to stop others, and he begins to feel frustrated. He does 1 of 2 things. He gives up going to fel and engaging in pvp, or he goes searching on the tubes for his own "supplementals".

Unfortunately, this scenario isn't made up, it's a fact. And it has been the cause of many people giving up on pvp, leaving uo, and creating the complaints against EA that they are running a crooked game that they can't fix.

And lastly, insulting me, or insinuating that I run cheat programs and this is why I think it's a bad idea doesn't make your idea better. It's designed to get people of opposing views from yours to stop providing input to your thread. If you want honest opinions and counterpoints, stop attacking people personally. And for the record.. I don't cheat. the only 3rd party program I ever run is UOMap.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

IMO its a bad idea just because of the fact that there is nothing wrong with the way the current thief template works.
You are just seeing a few old griefing vets that want the uber disarm thief brought back to power. It was nerfed for a good reason. End of story.

Todays thief can steal to his hearts content in any Fel dungeon or Doom or Dojo.

I personally would like to see my macer restored to his former glory when specials first came out and he 1 hit killed half the screen with his blessed vanq war hammer & conc blow. But I am quite certain that I could whine about it on these boards for 50 years and it still wont ever be re-considered.

There is no correlation between the Thief template & item insurance.
But there is a definite correlation between one old overpowered template and a nice bottle of Cabernet.

 

[Ryix (europa)]

IMO its a bad idea just because of the fact that there is nothing wrong with the way the current thief template works.
You are just seeing a few old griefing vets that want the uber disarm thief brought back to power. It was nerfed for a good reason. End of story.

Todays thief can steal to his hearts content in any Fel dungeon or Doom or Dojo.

I personally would like to see my macer restored to his former glory when specials first came out and he 1 hit killed half the screen with his blessed vanq war hammer & conc blow. But I am quite certain that I could whine about it on these boards for 50 years and it still wont ever be re-considered.

There is no correlation between the Thief template & item insurance.
But there is a definite correlation between one old overpowered template and a nice bottle of Cabernet.

the post above yours is a completely unrelated argument and has no basis or fact to it.. hes wrong. and missing the whole point here. I wont go into why.

As for yourself. firstly anyone should instantly realise your wrong with regards to your macer owning with a vanq and specials... specials and vanqs are like people and dinosaurs... never at the same time.. sorry

And again,, this thread is not just so thieves can come back, its so risk comes back.
Your senario (if correct) is true regardless of insurance. or equipment. People cheat now because someone else is better than them and also because they arnt as geared as the people that beat them. Infact this change would actually reduce peoples desire to cheat. Fair playing field means only those that suck might need to cheat

I have yet to see one valid argument against this proposed change, and even i can see one. with no counter or defence. Please someone point it out if you can

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

IMO its a bad idea just because of the fact that there is nothing wrong with the way the current thief template works.
You are just seeing a few old griefing vets that want the uber disarm thief brought back to power. It was nerfed for a good reason. End of story.

Todays thief can steal to his hearts content in any Fel dungeon or Doom or Dojo.

I personally would like to see my macer restored to his former glory when specials first came out and he 1 hit killed half the screen with his blessed vanq war hammer & conc blow. But I am quite certain that I could whine about it on these boards for 50 years and it still wont ever be re-considered.

There is no correlation between the Thief template & item insurance.
But there is a definite correlation between one old overpowered template and a nice bottle of Cabernet.

the post above yours is a completely unrelated argument and has no basis or fact to it.. hes wrong. and missing the whole point here. I wont go into why.

As for yourself. firstly anyone should instantly realise your wrong with regards to your macer owning with a vanq and specials... specials and vanqs are like people and dinosaurs... never at the same time.. sorry

And again,, this thread is not just so thieves can come back, its so risk comes back.
Your senario (if correct) is true regardless of insurance. or equipment. People cheat now because someone else is better than them and also because they arnt as geared as the people that beat them. Infact this change would actually reduce peoples desire to cheat. Fair playing field means only those that suck might need to cheat

I have yet to see one valid argument against this proposed change, and even i can see one. with no counter or defence. Please someone point it out if you can

1) A quick translation of your words for anyone new to this post: you "have yet to see one valid argument against" your change = You quite obviously will not listen to what anyone else has to say. Numerous posters showed many reasons why this change may not work or be effective yet you choose to ignore EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM as evidenced by your comment.

2) A quick read of your OP clearly points out the fact that this change is what YOU want. Based on the amount of times you mention yourself/playstyle you quite obviously did not take into account anything but your needs/wants.

I am now officially leaving this cesspool.

Peace

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

You are just seeing a few old griefing vets that want the uber disarm thief brought back to power.

ROFL...la

 

[Ryix (europa)]

1) A quick translation of your words for anyone new to this post: you "have yet to see one valid argument against" your change = You quite obviously will not listen to what anyone else has to say. Numerous posters showed many reasons why this change may not work or be effective yet you choose to ignore EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM as evidenced by your comment.

2) A quick read of your OP clearly points out the fact that this change is what YOU want. Based on the amount of times you mention yourself/playstyle you quite obviously did not take into account anything but your needs/wants.

I am now officially leaving this cesspool.

Peace

You quote me out of context there, i said valid argument that was not a misunderstanding or easily countered and incorrect.

Show me a valid point anyone has made that i have no explianed how the proposed change either does not effect or actually benefits.
Yes the OP is mine but the idea is not a new one and its certainly not mine.

Yeah i want it, and so should you, everyone benefits here no one loses out.. no one has shown a playstyle that is at a loss here... NOBODY.. tell me exactly how someone will lose out from the proposed change and i will show you an error on your part.

If you leave the cesspool it becomes less of a cesspool and more of a pool.. and who dont like swimming? so go for it.

Ryix - cleanin up the pool, lol

 

[Yalp]

Too bad that honest discussion and debate is so hard to come by in this thread.

The OP posted there are only 2 reasons to go to fel.. which isn't true.
The OP posted that making all items cursed while in fel is a win for everyone.. which isn't true.
The OP has ignored, brow-beaten and insulted everyone who posted contrary views to his PoV.

Some advice for the OP.. don't post a thread topic if you don't want to actually talk about the pros vs. cons of your proposal. It's a waste of my time and everyone elses.

 

[ShadowJack]

Too bad that honest discussion and debate is so hard to come by in this thread.

The OP posted there are only 2 reasons to go to fel.. which isn't true.
The OP posted that making all items cursed while in fel is a win for everyone.. which isn't true.
The OP has ignored, brow-beaten and insulted everyone who posted contrary views to his PoV.

Some advice for the OP.. don't post a thread topic if you don't want to actually talk about the pros vs. cons of your proposal. It's a waste of my time and everyone elses.

This is a topic to bring a more classic old school style of play. He's just taking up for his side of the disscussion. If it gets a little rough on both sides, then that just means someone feels strongly about it.

you make this bold statement and don't prove any points at least we're pointing out why it would work. You attack the op by attacking his ideas and ways to share them, you generalize by saying it wastes yours and everyone elses time...not true.



I can lay it out flat for you



Trammel isn't a lot of peoples way of playing, there used to be a lot of bad guys that are nonexistant now, times when you could run anywhere in the game and always see someone, even after trammel.

Instead of leaving FEL a watered down trammel. I am for bringing a classic feel back to UO for the old players that left


It was harder, it was more challenging and frustrating, and it was more fun.





And if you don't like it, then everything that is done right now in fel, could be adapted to trammel.



Playing with insurance in a place doesn't make it dangerous, it unbalances real pvp (you aren't supposed to quick rez and come right back, you're supposed to take a few minutes to restock when you die)


it takes away from skill based play and puts it in the hands of powerscrolls and gear


and finally, it just makes fel too safe. For the pks and for the anti/pk

 

[ColterDC]

You are just seeing a few old griefing vets that want the uber disarm thief brought back to power. It was nerfed for a good reason. End of story.

Exactly

I see the no skill leg humpers are still trying to convince people that the old thief class is actually worth bringing back.

Sucks to be you.....since we all know it will never happen.

 

[ColterDC]

Another no skill leg humper who is still crying after 8 years that their worthless garbage playstyle is gone.

Know why thieves were nerfed into oblivion? Because it's a no skill, no risk, all reward playstyle that no one but the people playing thieves want around.

a guy with a sig riding a nightmare, killing a scripter is who should decide what's best for the playstyle of thief lol.

First off nooblet, it's not a nightmare...it's a black horse.

Secondly what the hell does what I'm wearing or riding have to do with this arguement? Oh that's right...... NOTHING. You're just losing your pathetic leg humping cause, so you make up idiotic points that have nothing to do with the conversation.

 

[ShadowJack]

sure it does, and to say a disarm thief doesn't have skill then you are wrong, flat out wrong.



I was at a player event one time and stole a vanq wep, there was about 50+ people there, I had to teleport grey 5 times to get through the crowd, when people noticed all of a sudden, I had 20 people after me and only managed to get away by dropping a bookcase hiding and then took off again to where I could tele hide.



Playing a thief and staying alive isn't easy.



most of the time it was luck, and it just took one or two little flubs on either part to determine the outcome.



And if you don't know what I'm talking about with the glacial staff, then you are probably too new to oppose the loss of item insurance in fel.


and there are a lot of kinds of thieves, disarm is only one of them.


I was there before the disarm and I was there after.

it was just a fun way to play sometimes, along with the thief mage, the dungeon crawler stealth/lp thief, the warrior thief, idoc thief (detect, tracking, magery, stealing, snooping, hiding, stealth), and all the other good ones.

 

[Yalp]

you make this bold statement and don't prove any points

if you took the time to scan the thread.. you'd see several of my points explaining how and why.. not to mention many other peeps with counterpoints, put out there with thoughtfulness.

 

[ShadowJack]

I'm just saying, don't take the no way, no how, never going to happen approach


we did that and still got steamrolled (and by we I don't mean the thieves or pks) I mean the people who didn't want all the changes to happen. Some of them are good, some of them ruined the entire gameplay of that time.


Taking insurance out of FEL restores balance for the new people who enjoy the game the way it is, the old people who enjoy the game the way it was, and the people like me who enjoyed both.

Fel is pretty much dead, why not make it oldschool.


Siege isn't oldschool, it used to be called a server called abyss if I remember correctly, and sp was always meant to be different. This thread is for the whole game.



By taking item insurance out of fel it solves a lot of those. It's going to take a lot of thinking and player input to get it just right, but I think this would solve a lot of problems and bring back a lot of old players, who would just want to try it out at the least. It creates a new enviroment for you without more landmass, items, dungeons, or npcs and puts fel into the players hands good and bad.



instead of the no approach, think about ways to incorporate it into your gameplay and adjust balance issues.


but as someone who looks for idocs most of the time, I can tell you the facet of fell is underpopulated and the interaction in towns and the wild is next to nil.


This idea brings old ideas and new and puts them together. If the population ever got booming again we could have cross facet events and storylines, and it'd be fun. Especially with the new races being put in.

 

[Radun]

no way, no how, never going to happen:loser:

 

[Nexus]

Hard to know where to start.. first off.. on the cheating programs.. that is exactly what they do.. speed up movement, healing time, casting time, movement restrictions, terrain restrictions, and game mechanics. Even with the exact same gear, and honest pvp'r can not compete. Anyone who denies that is trying to delude themselves or worse, intentionally mislead on these boards.

So your saying these programs effect caps that are in effect sever side? Damage caps, Bandage Speed, Heal Pot delays, and cast speed are all Server side. In other words not effected by programs altering the client. As far a Terrian restrictions that's caused by edited Maps, easiest fix is to verify the maps when the client loads...Maps don't match what the server says they should then the client shouldn't start.

Secondly, plenty of peeps attempt to hold events on fel side, that don't involve pvp. These events draw peeps who rarely set foot in fel because they either don't want to be attacked or they can not compete with those who regularly pvp. TCurrently, such gatherings are often attacked and the event disrupted by the very peeps who cry about fel being deserted and/or being tired of pvp'ing against the same few peeps/guilds. Knowing you will die and loose all your gear 100% of the time you go to fel will absolutely KILL any non-pvp'rs desire to go to fel... ever.. for any reason.

And you think, that if those peeps that are invading and disrupting those events didn't have such an edge in PvP they would be as willing to do so?

Third, pvp'rs work the odds. If they figure they have a ... let's say 75% chance of losing against any given opponent.. do you think they will engage in pvp? Or do you figure they will skip the pvp? Especially if they know they will loose everything? If they know they have a 75% chance of winning every encounter, they will be more likely to pvp.

PvPer's working the odds....every player works the odds. Smiths that collect and do huge amounts of BODs are working the odds to get a Val hammer by doing large amounts of BODs. Swoop got changed in the twisted wield because the Win vs Loose ratio was off and players worked the odds to farm tons of gold. Working the odds is a moot point because everyone does it in some form or another. Isn't 50/50 better odds or more challenging odds than 75/25. Don't you think an even match up will benefit PvP by making it more challenging? If the PvP community isn't wanting a challenge then they should just go off killing Mongbats.

How do you think they would make those determinations? (assuming they are completely honest in their gameplay) By the gear/weapon they hold.. and that would make the prices of gear go UP not down. If I have an uber fork with 5 kick ass properties, and is faster than every other fork out there, you think I'm gonna drop that price on my vendor? Hell no.. gonna raise it to the sky limit, cause I know those elite pvp'rs have to have it Basic supply and demand principles.. Huge demand.. small supply = sky high prices.

How often are you willing to pay 1-5-10-20mil for an item that you know you'll wind up loosing? That's how I make that determination, eventually the Risk of loosing an items will outstrip the benefits of having it.

Fourth, now let's assume all things are equal. pvp'r A has the exact same template, armor & weapon as pvp'r B, A meets B out in the field. Maybe A is a little faster on the macros. Maybe B doesn't run the same macros. A wins this battle. Takes all of B's gear.. even if it crap, he takes it, just for the ingots/leather. Pvp'r B gets frustrated. Pvp'r B goes out to the tubes of the internet and searches for "supplemental" pvp strategy and lo' and behold finds the numerous sites promising if you just run xxx program you can run faster, heal faster, ignore game mechanics, etc etc.. and pvp'r B loads up on these. Now pvp'r B comes across pvp'r A in the field again. Same equipment, same armor, same weapon, same macros, new "supplementals". Pvp'r B wins this round. Pvp'r A scratches his head. Knows he owned pvp'r B before, wonders how he managed to defeat him this time, moving faster, healing faster, casting faster, hmm... pvp'r A wonders but moves on.. rezzes, engages pvp'r C who also owns him. Again he moves on to pvp'r D who owns him. He sees the pattern of other pvp'rs moving, casting, healing, all faster, he sees them moving though game mechanics designed to stop others, and he begins to feel frustrated. He does 1 of 2 things. He gives up going to fel and engaging in pvp, or he goes searching on the tubes for his own "supplementals".

It's called Self Policing. Gank the guy until he can't afford to re-equip. If Player B starts cheating do the same to him. It doesn't take rocket science, police yourselves, don't make excuses for cheating. Scripting isn't a huge problem on Siege because they self police...prodo shards as a general rule don't.

Unfortunately, this scenario isn't made up, it's a fact. And it has been the cause of many people giving up on pvp, leaving uo, and creating the complaints against EA that they are running a crooked game that they can't fix.

EA does fix it, they put out patches that break the programs, but it's not a permanent fix because the program too can be updated. The players have to Self Police that's the only way Cheating can be brought down.

And lastly, insulting me, or insinuating that I run cheat programs and this is why I think it's a bad idea doesn't make your idea better. It's designed to get people of opposing views from yours to stop providing input to your thread. If you want honest opinions and counterpoints, stop attacking people personally. And for the record.. I don't cheat. the only 3rd party program I ever run is UOMap.

If your not good on you, if you aren't why bring up the merits of a program? Putting yourself in a position that appears to be a stance in favor of illegal programs would tend to lead people to think that you might be using them.

 

[Righteous]

I propose that fel becomes less carebare in one simple way. for insurance/bless purposes make everything cursed... just while in fel... ok now all you "omg but i goto fel sometimes i dont wanna lose my stuff!!" Hear me out!

People goto fel for two reasons, to pvp and for extra rewards.

Now reason one.. i assume alot of pvpers will tell you that it was better BEFORE it was item based, and the only reason they play prod instead of siege is because of all the other factors not because of insurance. Then theres the pvpers who just wanna pvp without losing their items.. well.. theres guild wars in trammel and i doubt it would be hard for the devs to nock up a everyman for himself faction type stone/arena in tram, you join /enter the arena and theres insured pvp! woo no counts maybe there? who knows

then theres reason two! Extra rewards... guess what... the reason theres extra rewards in fel is coz theres extra risk... that risk currently is a small amount of time lost when you die... thats not really a big risk for an extra 100% reward right? hmm i mean really death via pvp in fel and death via monster in tram. only difference? you lose bandies and regs in fel and you cant avoid death as easy as invising or running away from the stupid and slow monster

(oh and yes you can totally learn to pvm WITHOUT arties.. guess what!? we killed balrons and aw;s before arties too )

Everyone wins no?
Thieves get re boosted. PVP has now even more options and more depth, its win win?, the risk vrs reward is actually a risk. (you can even boost the reward if people wanna cry about it and its unscriptable because no ones gonna be able to afk kill anything worthwhile in gm armor and no scriptor is going to be safe in fel if people actually get something out of killing them)

I know its a RADICAL change, but i see no downside, your covering all bases and reintroducing (for me) one of the best templates and playstyles in the game.

and if you wanna flame me and say it wouldnt work and you wouldnt pvp,, look at siege it works people

PLEASE IF YOUR GOING TO CONTRIBUTE IN ANYWAY PLEASE EXPLAIN... otherwise you have no reason to post.

I don't think this is going to work. The PVPers want victims and if the carebears (as you call them) are complaining now about how they get tired of the PvPers killing them what kind of screaming are you going to hear from them when they loose all thier stuff as well as getting killed. There are alot more carebears then there are PvPers or fel would be full and and tram would be empty.

If this wasnt an item based game I would say insurance could be done away with everywhere but alas it is not. Before it was item based I could have another suit of armor and weapons in a few minutes with my blacksmith and be good to go.

Personally if I am going to Fel to gather rescources I go pretty much naked with a couple hundred igots and a tinkers tools and make what I need as I go along. I loose very little when I am killed. As for PvM in fel I am usually only there for a short period of time until 3 or 4 PKers show up to kill me in a "fair" fight.

Personally I think Fel shouldnt have a lure for the PvPers to have victims but I didnt get a vote in the matter.

BTW your statement about we killed Ancient Wyrms and Balrons before arties that is true but they have gotten a serious buff since then and a better AI.

Just my two cents

Righteous

 

[Nexus]

I don't think this is going to work. The PVPers want victims and if the carebears (as you call them) are complaining now about how they get tired of the PvPers killing them what kind of screaming are you going to hear from them when they loose all thier stuff as well as getting killed. There are alot more carebears then there are PvPers or fel would be full and and tram would be empty.

If the Fel side of the gate game wasn't item dependent, and people reverted to wearing cheap, easy to acquire Crafted equipment would that prevent or encourage more to go? You'd risk loosing more but much less cost than if you wore an artifact suit. It's Risk vs Reward not Insurance vs Reward we're talking about.

If this wasnt an item based game I would say insurance could be done away with everywhere but alas it is not. Before it was item based I could have another suit of armor and weapons in a few minutes with my blacksmith and be good to go.

Nothing in this thread mentions removing Insurance just invalidating it in Fel only. There would be a place for Item based play, Trammel, Tokuno, Malas, Ilshnear, and inside you own fel home where your safe and sound.

Personally if I am going to Fel to gather rescources I go pretty much naked with a couple hundred igots and a tinkers tools and make what I need as I go along. I loose very little when I am killed. As for PvM in fel I am usually only there for a short period of time until 3 or 4 PKers show up to kill me in a "fair" fight.

I'm assuming your not a PvPer, if I'm right your characters are built around a PvM concept they way you balance skills and equip is different. Take out Item Dependency and you alter this where there's a much closer relation between PvM and PvP setups leaving you more of a fighting chance.

Personally I think Fel shouldnt have a lure for the PvPers to have victims but I didnt get a vote in the matter.

BTW your statement about we killed Ancient Wyrms and Balrons before arties that is true but they have gotten a serious buff since then and a better AI.

Just my two cents

Righteous

I don't think it should either, but since their is one, the Risk vs Reward aspect of Fel needs to be brought back. Insurance has killed it, in combination with item Dependency. Fix those issues in Fel, and you assist in balancing PvP. You give non-PvPer's a boost so they can accept the risk more readily, and you give the pre-AoS crowd that would return to UO a reason to do so.

You ever play Siege? AW's and Balrons got the same boost there. People still do peerless, kills AW's and Balrons, Champ Spawns and everything you do now on Prodo Shards without insurance. It can work this would make Fel on Prodo Shards almost exactly like Siege minus the RoT.
What it comes down too is anyone that PvPs in Fel, and can't conceive of the idea of PvP in Fel without Insurance is just as Candied, and Care Bear as the people they make fun of in Trammel. They rely on it, it's how they beat the odds, it's what's taken the Risk out of PvP and Fel.

 

[ShadowJack]

What it comes down too is anyone that PvPs in Fel, and can't conceive of the idea of PvP in Fel without Insurance is just as Candied, and Care Bear as the people they make fun of in Trammel. They rely on it, it's how they beat the odds, it's what's taken the Risk out of PvP and Fel.

exactly.

 

[Radun]

IMO its a bad idea just because of the fact that there is nothing wrong with the way the current thief template works.

QFT

You are just seeing a few old griefing vets that want the uber disarm thief brought back to power. It was nerfed for a good reason. End of story.

QFT

Todays thief can steal to his hearts content in any Fel dungeon or Doom or Dojo.

QFT

There is no correlation between the Thief template & item insurance.

QFT


They want to 'add risk', but only for the non-thief. Removing insurance (from fel... I can't believe I have to say 'from fel' every time, as if they don't know that's what I mean) doesn't add any risk for thieves (which are the ones supporting such a change), it only benefits them.

They say things such as:

What it comes down too is anyone that PvPs in Fel, and can't conceive of the idea of PvP in Fel without Insurance is just as Candied, and Care Bear as the people they make fun of in Trammel. They rely on it, it's how they beat the odds, it's what's taken the Risk out of PvP and Fel.

:loser:
It's obvious that the people supporting this type of change are clearly not even fel pvpers. Comments supporting this change are based entirely upon prejudice, and thus, are completely unfounded.

Make a pvp character, build up a pvp-worthy suit, and see that pvp is just as skill based as it ever was. I'm sick of reading people claiming that combat is item based. If someone is better at using their character than you are at using yours, they will have an advantage over you in pvp situations... even IF their equipment doesn't provide them with as many buffs and bonuses as yours does. If pvp was completely item based, the person with the better equipment would always win, even if he had no clue what he was doing.
Just because pvpers wear nice equipment, does not mean that's what makes them good.

 

[ShadowJack]

sounds like you just don't want fel to change because you have it locked down.



It does help the thief more than any other class, because we are the class most hurting right now. And have been a long time.


The thief should be a part of fel before the items are.



It's been that way since the start.

 

[ShadowJack]

no.

this change would make all the good equipment people built up - pointless.
if they were going make insurance tram-only, the time to do it would have been back when they introduced insurance... not after years of making people work long and hard to acquire the best equipment... just to make all that work irrelevant.

the thread's title should read: a proposed idea to BREAK fel/pvp/insurance

you mean people like me and the hundreds of accounts like this? Notice that the suspension date is just a few months after age of shadows.

 

[Sarphus]

I think the consept works, but there are some caveats (that could be addressed)

Issue 1
You have reds that can't go to trammel right now. They would log on to find that their entire suit is droppable. It would be possible for them to log in at a place that's not safe and lose their suit. That's not acceptable imo. Also, you could have blues that log on at an unsafe location and get killed before they can change to GM armor.

The solution to this is to transport everyone to a safe location and make them invulnerable the first time they log on after the publish. Naturally, they would have to be unable to attack or leave a certain area until they have had the opportunity to bank all their stuff. The bank they would have access to in the "safe zone" would also allow them to throw things into their house's moving crate if their bank is full.

Issue 2
There is a runebook exploit that allows players to pull other people into fel unwillingly.

Solution
Fix the exploit and add a confirmation dialog that pops up every time someone is about to transport to fel and they have insured items in their inventory.

I can't think of any other issues right now, but I suspect there would be more issues.

 

[Nexus]

IMO its a bad idea just because of the fact that there is nothing wrong with the way the current thief template works.

Nope there is nothing wrong with the template, it's an issue with the game mechanics removing the thief in Fel as a factor in day to day game play. I could go PvP day in and day out and always find someone to compete against. I play a Thief in Fel Day in and Day out, and while I find people I don't find items worth stealing thanks to insurance 90%. True I could camp champ spawns, but no other template or class of skills is as hand tied in Fel on what they can do to be profitable as the thief. Your screaming to keep a group down because you, don't agree with it, because you don't want to see the only real measure that could restore the thief in a PvP environment come to pass, and that's loss of insurance and blessing on items in Fel. Wake up people if your that concerned about your items as PvPers your no different than the Trammies you claim to despise.

You are just seeing a few old griefing vets that want the uber disarm thief brought back to power. It was nerfed for a good reason. End of story.

QFT

I didn't play a Disarm thief before AoS or before UO:R, and to claim that Disarm thieves would be what they were then is a case of ignoring current game mechanics that have changed since then. More has happened in the time between then an now than just insurance, that would hamper the concept of a Disarm thief. It works on Siege because there is no Passive Reveal you don't need to compensate on your template for it using up skill points, that would otherwise go into defensive/offensive measures. Also just because at the time the nerf was good doesn't mean as the game evolves those changes remain the best thing for the class. As game mechanics change nothing is wrong with re-evaluating a skill set and adjusting it as necessary.

Todays thief can steal to his hearts content in any Fel dungeon or Doom or Dojo.

QFT

Using the stealing skill doesn't make you a thief. Who are you stealing from in Doom or the Dojo? What risk are you running? And like I said before try arguing that using stealing arties in Malas and Tokuno makes you a thief in the Thief fourms and see how long before your told to go to the rares collectors forum.
How often do you run through Fel dungeons? Other than the Spawns in them they stay pretty empty, so no stealing to my hearts content can't be filled that way.

There is no correlation between the Thief template & item insurance.

QFT

There is a strong one. Insurance is the biggest hamper to the Thief Template, we can work the skill all we want but it's almost pointless with insurance having a dominate factor in Fel. Personally I enjoy stealing from other players, not litter on the ground. Insurance hampers me enjoying the play style I enjoy, do I just steal blindly anything I can get my hands on...no I'm selective in what I take I'll pass up 20 people carrying Pots and Aids to steal that 1 item from another player that has some value. Same holds true at spawns I'll pass up any number of 110 scrolls for a nicer 115 or 120, if I was out to grief and steal blindly I would be taking Pots off blues while they were pvping.

They want to 'add risk', but only for the non-thief. Removing insurance (from fel... I can't believe I have to say 'from fel' every time, as if they don't know that's what I mean) doesn't add any risk for thieves (which are the ones supporting such a change), it only benefits them.

How would this not effect the thief in the same manner. You can't run around naked in Fel and succeed anymore with or without insurance, damage outputs are too high on weapons resists would mean spells would be devastating. This would have the same effect on thieves as it would on the PvP community as we wouldn't be able to use items to compensate for skills anymore forcing us to stretch our template even further, and modifying our tactics.

They say things such as:

What it comes down too is anyone that PvPs in Fel, and can't conceive of the idea of PvP in Fel without Insurance is just as Candied, and Care Bear as the people they make fun of in Trammel. They rely on it, it's how they beat the odds, it's what's taken the Risk out of PvP and Fel.

:loser:
It's obvious that the people supporting this type of change are clearly not even fel pvpers. Comments supporting this change are based entirely upon prejudice, and thus, are completely unfounded.

Just because I don't currently PvP doesn't mean I never have, I'm making my observations based on what I've seen both personally and by talking with numerous PvPers. Everyone I know is opposed to these ideas because they want their Uber Suits they flat out admitted it to me. I'm making a case based on information I've gathered through personal and other people's experiences can you say the same?

 

[Radun]

sounds like you just don't want fel to change because you have it locked down.

Yes, I personally have complete control over the whole fel facet.
My equipment set gives me more bonuses than anyone else in fel, and thus I am God at pvp.
Nobody but my guild are able to do champ spawns or mine or LJ, because if anyone else even thought of doing one of those things, I'd simply show them my suit, and they drop dead on the spot.
I have the whole facet LOCKED DOWN.

 

[Sarphus]

This post was lost in stupidity by the first sentance. UO has always been item based. if you say anything else then you are the type of people who screamed for insurance to begin with. Insurance gave the people who could not afford to go get powers and vanqs and invul armour the opportunity to pvp on the same level as everyone else.

If people want to run on shards where insurance is not available they have the opportunity to do so. No one is allowed to post anything else in subject to the removal of insurance or "balancing pvp". you dont like something adapt if you dont have something go get it. quit crying and trying to change a game with weak enhancments

pre-AoS UO wasn't even close to as item based as it is today, which is one of the points of the OP I think. I know I used to pvp naked all the time. One time I went into a 1 on 8 naked and killed 4 of them. I didn't die, either. I just couldn't carry any more of their stuff.

You could competitively pvp naked in early UO. You can't today.

 

[Sarphus]

The modern day pk is a gimp

Did you know that you're misusing that word? What you said actually means 'modern pk is underpowered'...

Besides that... Did you know that it's a highly offensive slur?

And finally.... Did you know that you're completely off topic? This thread has nothing at all to do with PKing.

Lighten up Francis.

 

[Nexus]

I think the consept works, but there are some caveats (that could be addressed)

Issue 1
You have reds that can't go to trammel right now. They would log on to find that their entire suit is droppable. It would be possible for them to log in at a place that's not safe and lose their suit. That's not acceptable imo. Also, you could have blues that log on at an unsafe location and get killed before they can change to GM armor.

Advanced warning of the change on the patch screen, website and here on stratics will help with that. In addition I'm not opposed to as a trade off letting Reds go to Trammel and other facets, on the condition that they are restricted by the rule set and their counts can't wear off while there.

The solution to this is to transport everyone to a safe location and make them invulnerable the first time they log on after the publish. Naturally, they would have to be unable to attack or leave a certain area until they have had the opportunity to bank all their stuff. The bank they would have access to in the "safe zone" would also allow them to throw things into their house's moving crate if their bank is full.

Well logging off out in the middle of no where isn't a common practice is it? You can recall anywhere in the non-t2a, dungeon servers in Fel. You'd have an opportunity to stow our gear, Having a Blue bring gear to the house for the first gear up would work too it's not a major issue.

Issue 2
There is a runebook exploit that allows players to pull other people into fel unwillingly.

Solution
Fix the exploit and add a confirmation dialog that pops up every time someone is about to transport to fel and they have insured items in their inventory.

I can't think of any other issues right now, but I suspect there would be more issues.

Yep that's all it should take on this end of things...The Exploit needs fixed regardless but any cross facet transfer needs a confirmation gump. The Check boxes on public gates work as one, Summoned Gates use both color and a popup, how hard and why wouldn't you include something for Recall and Sacred Journey?

 

[ShadowJack]

Nexus makes a good point.


And I also think to myself. What is so bad about a thief in fel. Would it keep me from fighting, or cause me greif that would ruin the game on non-thief chars.



Then I think back to how I handled thieves on my non thief chars, and I remembered, oh wait, I killed them, I thief proofed myself, then I killed them again.


If it was someone I got to know, then I killed them on sight


thieves can't give counts


perma grey thieves can't call guards




If they used the disguise kit, I would notice the white hair and the crappy npc name and kill them if they got close enough to snoop.



I think about the issue in fairness, and I still come to the conclusion, that the thief was a fun template to play, and it wasn't hard to protect yourself from them


The thief catches you unawares, and unprepared, he steals and gets away from you, but most lack any decent way to fight back. Even though we got clever over the years with dp newbie daggers and tele hide, dropping bookcases to hide behind and all sorts of clever tricks.


If reds want tram access, then they should have it and be able to keep the gear there. Bringing the thief back goes along with what other players want, and brings life back to fel, offers a cookie to old players who hate the game like it is, and keeps trammel perfectly safe.



Go read my how to steal in trammel in the thieves forum and realize that the good thieves never even went away.

 

[Sarphus]

Another no skill leg humper who is still crying after 8 years that their worthless garbage playstyle is gone.

Know why thieves were nerfed into oblivion? Because it's a no skill, no risk, all reward playstyle that no one but the people playing thieves want around.

You're wrong...

Playing a thief did take skill. The reason it was nerfed into oblivion was that if you played it right it could be a no risk high reward skill.

Thieves definitely took more skill to play than a click n' stick... err... warrior

 

[Radun]

you mean people like me and the hundreds of accounts like this? Notice that the suspension date is just a few months after age of shadows.

No. I wasn't even talking about people in the post you replied to.:loser:
my post: "The time to make such a change was long ago, it's too late now"
your response: "OH PEOPLE LIKE ME? DURRRRRR"

Stay in school.

 

[Sarphus]

Another potential problem is that tamers are overpowered when players can't wear top-end gear. Tamers are overpowered on siege and would be overpowered under this system.

If your solution to this issue is to nerf tamers universally, you make them underpowered in pvm.

I think the best solution for this is to make pets lose 5 full skill points in all skills if they die when their owner doesn't have enough real vet skill to res them. Forcing tamers to be tamers does a lot to balance them.


Oh, another issue is how arms lore works with crafting. Arms lore got a nice bump on siege. It would also need a similar bump on live shards for fel-only armor. I think the best solution for this problem would be to give armor the siege-style arms lore bump, but make it cursed if it was crafted in fel.

 

[Nexus]

Another potential problem is that tamers are overpowered when players can't wear top-end gear. Tamers are overpowered on siege and would be overpowered under this system.

Look through my posts on Tamers in PvP, I say they have a place but the pets need to fall under the same rule for capped damage in PvP that players do....I agree tamers in PvP are a problem, but at the same time I don't see a reason to completely remove or nerf them from the PvP arena.

 

[ShadowJack]

Stay in school? Lol, you realize I was responding to your whine about taking away the items people worked so hard to get. You're one of the people who took it away from my generation in UO



I'm proposing a balance. If you aren't tough enough to play some old schoolers, then you probably don't belong in fel.


Most of them will probably be banned for trash talking all the leet pks after they've rez killed you enough time to fill up your backpack with deathrobes so your little items drop to the ground

 

[Sarphus]

Look through my posts on Tamers in PvP, I say they have a place but the pets need to fall under the same rule for capped damage in PvP that players do....I agree tamers in PvP are a problem, but at the same time I don't see a reason to completely remove or nerf them from the PvP arena.

Oh, I don't have a problem with tamers in pvp on live shards. I just have a problem with them on siege. Sure, there are a few things that need to be tweaked (and are supposedly getting a balance pass now) but tamers for the most part were only buffed to keep up with how powerful everything else became with all the crazy gear.

I agree on the capped dmg btw.