A proposed idea to finally FIX fel/pvp/stealing/risk v reward!!/INSURANCE!!

[Nexus]

Who says you need those items? You play siege. do people run around pvping naked? NO
I'm not talking about 200m suits. I'm talking about the basic necessities.
I'm not talking about spending more time acquiring high end items than pvping... I'm talking about spending more time rearranging crappy armor pieces to make throw-away suits than pvping.

I'm not saying 'if you insist on using good stuff' you'll spend more time preparing than pvping. I'm saying that the game is balanced so that if you're naked you're going to die in 2 spells, so you still have to spend more time preparing (because you have to balance the resists on a suit by switching pieces on and off) than actual pvping, even if you use the low end stuff.
Even if you have an unlimited supply of armor pieces... You'd still have to spend more time rearranging them into suits, than actually pvping.

I play Chesapeake much more than Siege, and what is so hard about taking part of one days play time to make up 3-4 suits?, removing Item dependence isn't just removal of +Skill items, it's removing dependency on Mods also. Are you so awful in PvP your going to die 50 times a night? Do you not kill anyone, or at least break even on your kill to death ratio? You'd get to loot their suits too you know, which if you go and stow them provides quick back up suits for you. Step back a second and look at things overall, do you think you'll actually not find pre-built suits? We're talking about suits made from what is now throw away armor. How many good resist/low mod pieces come out of a Barbed kit that get tossed? How about a Spined kit?. If Imbuing has half the effect that we hope for once it's released how much junk jewelry due to not having the right mix of Mods can be used to easily and effectively create decent suits at low cost? Something as huge a change as what we're proposing and advocating couldn't be a overnight process, with a major expansion on the horizon what better time to do something like this and actually factor the Pros and Cons in to get it right while it's in a long term testing process.

 

[Daelomin]

Making all cursed is too radical change. People simply will not like it and quit.

====================================================
Another idea I had to make thieves viable again would be:

Introduce cursed GEMS - these gems could work with imbuing, or be something totally new.

GEMS will give additional properties to armour/weapons ONLY while in the player backpack.

These GEMS could be either crafted with recipies or bought for good amount of gold.

Thieves will suddenly have an incetive to steal stuff. People can choose to enhance their gear further with an additional risk factor.

It would have to be properly balanced to work. I mean worthwhile to make or buy the gems, and worthwhile to use them.

 

[Radun]

I play Chesapeake much more than Siege, and what is so hard about taking part of one days play time to make up 3-4 suits?, removing Item dependence isn't just removal of +Skill items, it's removing dependency on Mods also. Are you so awful in PvP your going to die 50 times a night? Do you not kill anyone, or at least break even on your kill to death ratio? You'd get to loot their suits too you know, which if you go and stow them provides quick back up suits for you. Step back a second and look at things overall, do you think you'll actually not find pre-built suits? We're talking about suits made from what is now throw away armor. How many good resist/low mod pieces come out of a Barbed kit that get tossed? How about a Spined kit?. If Imbuing has half the effect that we hope for once it's released how much junk jewelry due to not having the right mix of Mods can be used to easily and effectively create decent suits at low cost? Something as huge a change as what we're proposing and advocating couldn't be a overnight process, with a major expansion on the horizon what better time to do something like this and actually factor the Pros and Cons in to get it right while it's in a long term testing process.

Even with everything you mentioned...
You'd still have to spend more time rearranging them into suits, than actually pvping.

what is so hard about taking part of one days play time to make up 3-4 suits?

Thanks for making my point. With all the extra time you'd spend making suits, you would only be able to PvP maybe 3-4 times a day. (3 or 4 death/loots)

Dying 50x in one 24hr period isn't unusual, and it doesn't mean someone's bad.

 

[ShadowJack]

That's the whole point, pvp isn't level if you can regear up and run back to the fight. You need to take time to regear so that the people that are still fighting can finish the fight. If you can rez and loot your own items, then you don't have any trouble. Or I would suggest using blessed items.




You're too babied. You're lucky you don't have to run to the chaos shrine every time you die, or just bank in Buc's Den, where every blue on earth will be waiting for you.



Why don't you try to step of from JV UO and play with the big boys who used to have to do it the hard way.



You'll still have it easier than any of us ever used to.



you just wont be able to pop right back into it 10 times in one fight throwing off the chance of the winning players. You'll use suppar items and learn to get good with them. And you'd have to go make and buy those things as well, all good things because it puts gold into the system, makes items more useful, and levels pvp from gimp pks and blues that have no fear of death



death is a joke now



in fel, it's time to make death mean something, time to make the game a little harder, and time to push out the people exploiting it's trammel like quality

 

[Radun]

sorry, no, you're wrong.
the fact that people can re-equip from thier backpack doesn't make pvp unbalanced. everyone is able to do it.
If insurance was something that only some people were able to use, and everyone else was restricted from using it, then it would be unbalanced.


also, I've already told you before to quit making the assumption that everyone who likes insurance didn't play before it was in the game, back before reds could go to town, back before red healers, etc.

 

[ShadowJack]

Poor Radun, are you going to be sad when the real vets and pks and pvprs return and your special gear and control of ps spawns is gone because they spank you with it?

 

[Radun]

never gonna happen.... sad like you when you quit, quitter?

 

[ShadowJack]

I had 2 finished accounts, played a thief as a main and played all the way till sometime in 2004-05


you fuss about losing everything you work for, I lost about 14 finished chars

then my favorite profession


since then I play about 2 months out of the year, just to camp an idoc, say hi to folks, and see what's going on in the game.


so i've never really quit, just waiting for them to fix it




If you want to be safe, go to trammel, if you want your items to be safe, go to trammel


everything about you and your arguments scream that you are a naturally born tram mindset player.




People like you need to let the big boys play again


Some of those old school pks are maniacs and I'd love to see them overrun fel again

 

[ShadowJack]

Even with everything you mentioned...
You'd still have to spend more time rearranging them into suits, than actually pvping.


Thanks for making my point. With all the extra time you'd spend making suits, you would only be able to PvP maybe 3-4 times a day. (3 or 4 death/loots)

Dying 50x in one 24hr period isn't unusual, and it doesn't mean someone's bad.

You have no idea what you are talking about

 

[Kith Kanan]

make it so I cant use my items in Fel without loosing em and I quit , I didnt spend the last many years of collecting gear and building suits for some griefer to lay his clammy hands on em ... Stop trying to ruin our servers , and go play siege or some non EA server , 95% of the peopel who players yhe game have no interrest in what your proposing , we dont want to loose our stuff to nakid griefers !!!!!!!!!

This is not the good old days where you just grapped a new stack of regs , or a bag with a new archer suit and a selection of GM weapons , and you where rdy for round 2... The suits peopel use today has maybe taken years to build , and if you cant compete with that WELL TOUGH LUCK CRY BABY !!!!!!

Siege is that way ------->

 

[Connor_Graham]

People like you need to let the big boys play again

And people like you need to learn to be tolerant of others and stop acting like your better than someone else. I've got news for ya:

You're no better than even the most Trammy of the Tram players.

Your dollars spend just as well in EA's eyes, they don't care where someone does what they do in game as long as the cash flow is steady.


So now big boy, step down off the soapbox and come on back down to earth. Getting high does not mean standing on something so you can be taller than everyone else.

 

[Ailish]

I propose that fel becomes less carebare in one simple way. for insurance/bless purposes make everything cursed... just while in fel... ok now all you "omg but i goto fel sometimes i dont wanna lose my stuff!!" Hear me out!

Hmm. I havent answered this until now because I have mixed feelings on it. With the curent system of item-based play vs. skill based, I am not sure it would be beneficial to the playstyle. IF gm-made armor was given a significant boost (like it was on Siege), and IF things like DCI and HCI were removed from equipment and tied strictly to skills OR were knocked back down to Pre-AoS item based levels (DCI only exists on armor, and only in a moderate amount, HCI only exists on weapons, and again, only in moderate amounts), I would probably be fine with it, although I think blessed rewards (vet robes/dresses, AoS clothing) should stay blessed.

Fix Faction-Blessed armor, allowing that system to exist as it was intended.

The way AoS was implemented caused alot of balance issues. It made it so old monsters were babies, new monsters had to be godly, old armor was useless, new armor had to be godly, etc. The way that it was implemented almost required the necessity of insurance to re-balance it all. Item properties should have been moderate bonuses, not godly bonuses.

 

[Viper09]

make it so I cant use my items in Fel without loosing em and I quit , I didnt spend the last many years of collecting gear and building suits for some griefer to lay his clammy hands on em ... Stop trying to ruin our servers , and go play siege or some non EA server , 95% of the peopel who players yhe game have no interrest in what your proposing , we dont want to loose our stuff to nakid griefers !!!!!!!!!

This is not the good old days where you just grapped a new stack of regs , or a bag with a new archer suit and a selection of GM weapons , and you where rdy for round 2... The suits peopel use today has maybe taken years to build , and if you cant compete with that WELL TOUGH LUCK CRY BABY !!!!!!

I'm sorry, but if you die to someone who is naked, then that armor isn't even helping you. And if your talking about thieves, then sheesh, obviously you're items aren't helping if you can kill someone who is naked.

 

[ShadowJack]

make it so I cant use my items in Fel without loosing em and I quit , I didnt spend the last many years of collecting gear and building suits for some griefer to lay his clammy hands on em ... Stop trying to ruin our servers , and go play siege or some non EA server , 95% of the peopel who players yhe game have no interrest in what your proposing , we dont want to loose our stuff to nakid griefers !!!!!!!!!

First off, if you don't want to lose, stay out of FEL, fel is a land of loss and death


second your 95% comes from the top of your head, and your style of play is more suited to Trammel apparantly


You don't know how to define what a griefer is properly


and who says they're your servers?


you have no right to that claim, especially to push someone to a new shard (I was there when it was made) or to a non EA server (that is stupid of you to suggest at all)


and unless you can break something out like this, then you have no room for claiming that


we lost everything too and still cared about the game, you whould have left and whined and never looked back instead of fighting to save something you loved in rl for 5 years (and yes folks it's been 5 years since aos)

 

[Nexus]

sorry, no, you're wrong.
the fact that people can re-equip from thier backpack doesn't make pvp unbalanced. everyone is able to do it.
If insurance was something that only some people were able to use, and everyone else was restricted from using it, then it would be unbalanced.


also, I've already told you before to quit making the assumption that everyone who likes insurance didn't play before it was in the game, back before reds could go to town, back before red healers, etc.

Being able to re-equip from a corpse, and get back into a fight in under a minute doesn't make things right either. Insurance kills off an entire aspect of game play, harms the games economy by driving prices UP since items never need to be replaced, Nullifies an entire play style, generates more difficulty in game play balancing efforts, and detracts from the Risk, and Challenge elements of game play. Instead of wanting a change to alter this universally it's only being asked for the facet that claims to be more of a challenge, and have more Risk. Insurance nullifies actual risk in play. If you die 50 times in a 24 hour period that's 300k insurance for 10 armor pieces. How long does it take you to make 300k? I can do it in around an hour, myself even with the BOS changes. In today's game economy Gold isn't a factor anymore once your character is scrolled and equipped, it's easy to obtain and easy to transfer between characters, it's basically been removed as a Risk factor of PvP. Find me an actual Risk to being in Fel anymore I can refute pretty much what you toss at me, thanks to ties directly to Insurance. Spawns...your group gets ganked and doesn't get the scrolls...well you didn't loose anything you didn't already not have, that wasn't expendable. You've got your gear you only lost a small amount of gold, you didn't gain anything either so wheres the real Risk you basically broke even and it's that way every single time you go to Fel now. You never loose you always break even on the Risk vs Reward scale. Without Risk vs Reward there's no point in continuing to have things like Power Scrolls and increased resources restricted to Fel any longer. If your not really risking anything then you should get any reward either....

 

[ShadowJack]

And people like you need to learn to be tolerant of others and stop acting like your better than someone else. I've got news for ya:

You're no better than even the most Trammy of the Tram players.

Your dollars spend just as well in EA's eyes, they don't care where someone does what they do in game as long as the cash flow is steady.


So now big boy, step down off the soapbox and come on back down to earth. Getting high does not mean standing on something so you can be taller than everyone else.

Are you looking in a mirror while writing this?


Aren't you the one calling everyone who plays a thief a leg humper?


Your posts are pointless around your bias.

 

[Nexus]

make it so I cant use my items in Fel without loosing em and I quit , I didnt spend the last many years of collecting gear and building suits for some griefer to lay his clammy hands on em ... Stop trying to ruin our servers , and go play siege or some non EA server , 95% of the peopel who players yhe game have no interrest in what your proposing , we dont want to loose our stuff to nakid griefers !!!!!!!!!

This is not the good old days where you just grapped a new stack of regs , or a bag with a new archer suit and a selection of GM weapons , and you where rdy for round 2... The suits peopel use today has maybe taken years to build , and if you cant compete with that WELL TOUGH LUCK CRY BABY !!!!!!

Siege is that way ------->

You know I'm going to save this post of yours simply because it proves a lot of the PvP Community is as Care Bear as they claim Trammies are. If your so concerned about losing Pixel crack go to Trammel, it's what it was put there for.
btw

<---- Trammel is that way

 

[Nexus]

And people like you need to learn to be tolerant of others and stop acting like your better than someone else. I've got news for ya:

You're no better than even the most Trammy of the Tram players.

Your dollars spend just as well in EA's eyes, they don't care where someone does what they do in game as long as the cash flow is steady.


So now big boy, step down off the soapbox and come on back down to earth. Getting high does not mean standing on something so you can be taller than everyone else.

So how about this...They remove PvP from Fel with the exception of Guild Warring or how about Resource gathering other than harvesting feathers, or hmm how about you can't craft there except to make faction traps. Oh I know you can only stock Fire horns on vendors.

That's what insurance did to the concept of a viable thief class in Fel, no real solution to counter it has come up for the players wanting a player to player interaction on a thief. Stealing items of little to no value is not something a thief really wants to do. Stealing artifacts in dungeons isn't player to player either. The Fel Thief was practically crushed..there's a little room for them but not much. How valuable are a few pots and some bandages to you? Not much most likely and not much to a thief either.

 

[ShadowJack]

I wonder if conner realized that taking insults is one of the things that thieves and good pvprs do best


and make him look like an ass



seriously, every point you try to make has a barbed comment in it. Ever notice that?



like Nexy said



<-------trammel is that way, but you should watch your mouth, they probably will page on you

 

[Nexus]

You know I really do get selective on what I steal in Fel...I don't take just anything.. While spring cleaning turn-ins were up I took 110 scrolls if nothing better was there, now I ignore them. I always ignore Pots and Bandages, they simply don't have value and I can loot them easily enough off fallen Reds, since a portion of the time they are ignored on corpses.

Stuff I usually look for are tasty weapons that get missed, 10th anny artifacts people coming back from spawns forget to insure, 115 or better scrolls, Ship keys, Misc Armor pieces that have decent stats and mods, rare items they might for some unknown reason be carrying, Artifacts both Cursed and Non-cursed, and the Odd Library item. You'd be amazed how often I see people with different pairs of reading glasses in their packs though always insured but that doesn't mean sooner or later they won't be. I'm picky usually and won't go for Regs unless someone is gating a packhorse full around...which I doubt I see much of anymore with the Commodity Deed boxes....

 

[kelmo]

Don't make me break the fire hose out on you folks. We hardly know one another. *hitches up gun belt*

Discuss the issues. With respect for one another. You don't have to agree...

 

[ShadowJack]

Very good point Kelmo, this thread is large and has a lot of opposite opinions, so I'd like to keep it going.


So no item insurance in fel, sounds crazy huh


How would we ever live or be able to fight, if we lose our gear when we die?


It sounds impossible to me.

 

[Ailish]

So no item insurance in fel, sounds crazy huh


How would we ever live or be able to fight, if we lose our gear when we die?


It sounds impossible to me.

Err ... aren't you actively arguing for this? I would suggest that maybe dry sarcasm doesn't help it to be a constructive conversation?

Anyway ... I don't think this is viable until other parts of the game are adjusted. I think, just maybe, the current team might be working towards just such things ... Embuing, the recent non-powderable "arties", and the inflow of all 70's suits available from methods other than burning runics seem to point in this. They might just be finding a way to bring UO back to UO.

 

[Viper09]

Hows about just limit the amount of items you can insure, aye?

So, instead of insuring like 20 items, you can only insure, say, 7 or so. That way you are less likely to loose that favorite item of yours, but the risk settles in the other, not quite good but decent item? Keep the item blessing in there as well.

 

[Ailish]

Hows about just limit the amount of items you can insure, aye?

So, instead of insuring like 20 items, you can only insure, say, 7 or so. That way you are less likely to loose that favorite item of yours, but the risk settles in the other, not quite good but decent item? Keep the item blessing in there as well.

Hmm, this isnt a bad compromise, either. The number would have to be smaller than the items it takes to make a whole suit by a bit more, tho. More like 5 items, not 7. If they were to do this (actually, even if they didnt) spell books with properties should not be bless unless a PBD or IBD is used on them, but insurable (like the Tome).

 

[Nexus]

Hmm, this isnt a bad compromise, either. The number would have to be smaller than the items it takes to make a whole suit by a bit more, tho. More like 5 items, not 7. If they were to do this (actually, even if they didnt) spell books with properties should not be bless unless a PBD or IBD is used on them, but insurable (like the Tome).

I've no personal issue of items like spell books staying blessed, hooded shrouds either, but items that have counter parts that aren't by default blessed like Crimmies, Sammy Helms, Leggings of Embers ect shouldn't be.

 

[Ailish]

I wasnt referring to your plain old spellbook, Chiv book, etc. I meant things like Scrapper's. It does have a counterpart that is not blessed - the mele weapon.

 

[ShadowJack]

shields on chars without parry just to up some %ages is silly too imo

 

[Nexus]

I wasnt referring to your plain old spellbook, Chiv book, etc. I meant things like Scrapper's. It does have a counterpart that is not blessed - the mele weapon.

Scrappers are based on Spellbooks...there's only 2 non-blessed spell books and they are both Tokuno Artifacts, I hardly ever see these used in Fel though so I don't count em.

 

[Ailish]

Scrappers are based on Spellbooks...there's only 2 non-blessed spell books and they are both Tokuno Artifacts, I hardly ever see these used in Fel though so I don't count em.

I know that, however they have properties, similar to weapons and armor, so they should be in the non-blessed pool. Most people do not use just a Scrappers - they have a full spellbook and an empty Scrappers, Slayer Book, etc.

What's wrong? Its okay for my sweet weapon to drop but not for your sweet Scrappers?? Let's be fair here, please. (I have mages that use both Scrappers AND the non-blessed books, so I AM looking at it from both sides.)

 

[kelmo]

I know that, however they have properties, similar to weapons and armor, so they should be in the non-blessed pool. Most people do not use just a Scrappers - they have a full spellbook and an empty Scrappers, Slayer Book, etc.

What's wrong? Its okay for my sweet weapon to drop but not for your sweet Scrappers?? Let's be fair here, please. (I have mages that use both Scrappers AND the non-blessed books, so I AM looking at it from both sides.)

Damn good point.

 

[Ailish]

shields on chars without parry just to up some %ages is silly too imo

I actually agree with this, even tho I have shields on non-parry chars.

I honestly believe that UO needs the item system re-worked again. Random properties need to be done away with (at least in crafting!) or at least changed into a more reasonable system - it rolls for mage-oriented and you get 1-5 random mage-related properties, it rolls for defense-oriented, you get 1-5 random defense properties, etc, for both crafting and monster loot.

DCI should not be a property available on weapons, or possibly only on 2-handed weapons (with a max of like 5%). It should be restricted (extended!) to armor and shields only, and only in moderate amounts, but available via GM crafting, not just runics. 1-15% on shields, 1% per leather piece, 2% per studded, 3% per ring, 4% per chainmail, 5% per plate. None on jewelry.

Shields should be fairly useless for someone with no parry.

HCI should only be a property available on weapons - between 1% and 20% How on earth do my pants help me hit more often??

Stat increases maybe on jewels only? There really should NOT be a way to gain 30+ stats. That really is part of what has unballanced the game so bad.

If this was done, and a pass was taken on GM craftables to give better gear, I think things would balance out better and removing insurance in Fel would become more viable.

Of course, this is all just one person's thoughts, and I do not claim that this is the best/only solution!

 

[ShadowJack]

yeah, and this might shock some people, but I say leave spellbooks alone, just balance it out by considering some of the higher end books 2handed like the scrappers, so it has to be dropped for pots ^^

 

[MadTexan]

People goto fel for two reasons, to pvp and for extra rewards.

This assumes that people only go there for those reasons, which is completely false. You should not make proposals based on assumptions that are not accurate.

 

[ShadowJack]

Texie is kinda right, I go there for idocs, to wonder around, and to pretend to steal




I think the no insurance or limited insurance would just bring more lawlessness back to it.



limited is iffy in my book, because with virtue armor, shaminos cross bow, and items like that, then it would be possible for players to used blessed gear and not even need insurance.


I dunno, I like kicking the idea around to see if it is possible and could be balanced.

 

[Radun]

it wouldn't be unbalancing to remove insurance... it would just ruin the game.
p.s.
the idea of making items easy to replace would also ruin the game... the reason good items aren't easy to get, is so you have something to work towards.... it gives you a reason to go kill stuff. unless you're RPing or socializing, everything you do in the game is to get something to improve your characters... make it easy to get your characters as good as they can get, and you'd be making it easy to 'beat the game'.
nothing to work towards = no reason to play

 

[Nexus]

People goto fel for two reasons, to pvp and for extra rewards.

This assumes that people only go there for those reasons, which is completely false. You should not make proposals based on assumptions that are not accurate.

What about Fel makes it deserving of those extra rewards though? Even for those that do go there for them. They were put in as part of a Risk vs Reward System. Insurance killed the Risk portion of Fel.

This is Fel

It's a Carebear, just because it's an Evil Carebear doesn't stop it from being a Carebear.

 

[Radun]

Even for those that do go there for them. They were put in as part of a Risk vs Reward System. Insurance killed the Risk portion of Fel.

Wrong. Insurance didn't make champ spawns any less risky.
When these rewards were introduced (before insurance), the system was set up so that you got to keep all your equipment when you died. It didn't drop to your corpse.
Risk of being killed is still risk, even if you get to keep your equipment.

If you're playing chess with someone, and he beats you, do you say "Oh I didn't really lose, because I didn't wager any money on the game"? No, you still lost the game.

Right now when you die you lose 2k-6k in insurance.. Before insurance, when you died, what was your net loss when you died with a little bag of 50 each reagent? Was it like 100x more than you lose now? I don't understand why you think you were risking so much more before...

 

[Nexus]

Wrong. Insurance didn't make champ spawns any less risky.
When these rewards were introduced, the system was set up so that you got to keep all your equipment when you died. It didn't drop to your corpse.
Risk of being killed is still risk, even if you get to keep your equipment.

If you're playing chess with someone, and he beats you, do you say "Oh I didn't really lose, because I didn't wager any money on the game"? No, you still lost the game.

You might have kept your gear but you were ejected from the dungeon/T2A server for 20 minutes, unable to re-enter. Time is a factor and Risk every bit as much as equipment loss.

If you knew dying in PvP resulted in you not able engage in PvP for the next 20 minutes after your death would you consider PvPing more or less risky? Spawns lost Risk when the ejection from Dungeons was added true, but nothing has ever been put in place to replace that once it was removed. Dying is no longer a risk, you die, you rez 30 seconds later your fighting again. Removal of Insurance would work back towards putting a real risk in something that has a larger effect than 6000 gp back into dying.

And tell me what do you lose by dying at a spawn? Something you didn't have before you went there? It's breaking even your not loosing that's a vast difference.

 

[Xin Law]

Ryix, making it so insurance and bless features do not work in feluccia, is going to do nothing but make trusting/gulible players easily vulnerable to a-holes jacking their stuff. For example...

Your in Doom, in your really nice uber expensive suit with high yeild artifacts, having fun killing monsters. Some dude shows up, and starts assisting in keeping you alive, they rez you when they die, and you begin to trust them, thinking they are a good person. Then they pry into why you are 'farming in doom'. You name a couple artifacts, and meniton you need better rings, brac, weapon, etc. so they offer to let you thumb through their junk chest in their house to take whatever you want. You go, they open gate to fel, and you click okay, because this person helped you out so much in doom you assume they are okay. Then presto your gated to a energyfield crossing to be ganked and lose your stuff.
*Before you say anything about, that person deserves it, remember kids play this games.*

Also, if no insurance or blessed items, then Player owned Vendors will become obsolute in fel, because you can get ambushed and have the item/items you just purchased jacked.

 

[Nexus]

Ryix, making it so insurance and bless features do not work in feluccia, is going to do nothing but make trusting/gulible players easily vulnerable to a-holes jacking their stuff. For example...

Your in Doom, in your really nice uber expensive suit with high yeild artifacts, having fun killing monsters. Some dude shows up, and starts assisting in keeping you alive, they rez you when they die, and you begin to trust them, thinking they are a good person. Then they pry into why you are 'farming in doom'. You name a couple artifacts, and meniton you need better rings, brac, weapon, etc. so they offer to let you thumb through their junk chest in their house to take whatever you want. You go, they open gate to fel, and you click okay, because this person helped you out so much in doom you assume they are okay. Then presto your gated to a energyfield crossing to be ganked and lose your stuff.
*Before you say anything about, that person deserves it, remember kids play this games.*

Also, if no insurance or blessed items, then Player owned Vendors will become obsolute in fel, because you can get ambushed and have the item/items you just purchased jacked.

As far as Gates go well, that's why the made the gates Red to Fel, to warn you that once you cross your at the liberties of the rules of that facet. There have been tons of posts, not just on here but on UO.com over the years, and in almost every play manual, and often on the patch screen warning to be wary of other players attempting to Scam you. If your child is under 13 playing a game with the T rating then you can't really say it's fault of the person doing the ganking, the game isn't recommended for or designed for very young players. Truth is young children shouldn't be playing UO, you can't count on there being honest civil people on here, there are a lot of them but a child doesn't always have the common sense and real life experience to tell the difference and to make the good judgment calls to prevent something like that from happening to them.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

Wrong. Insurance didn't make champ spawns any less risky.
When these rewards were introduced, the system was set up so that you got to keep all your equipment when you died. It didn't drop to your corpse.
Risk of being killed is still risk, even if you get to keep your equipment.

If you're playing chess with someone, and he beats you, do you say "Oh I didn't really lose, because I didn't wager any money on the game"? No, you still lost the game.

You might have kept your gear but you were ejected from the dungeon/T2A server for 20 minutes, unable to re-enter. Time is a factor and Risk every bit as much as equipment loss.

If you knew dying in PvP resulted in you not able engage in PvP for the next 20 minutes after your death would you consider PvPing more or less risky? Spawns lost Risk when the ejection from Dungeons was added true, but nothing has ever been put in place to replace that once it was removed. Dying is no longer a risk, you die, you rez 30 seconds later your fighting again. Removal of Insurance would work back towards putting a real risk in something that has a larger effect than 6000 gp back into dying.

And tell me what do you lose by dying at a spawn? Something you didn't have before you went there? It's breaking even your not loosing that's a vast difference.

Rofl.

Now you are arguing about removal of insurance having a backwards effect?

What is more valuable son? Time or gear/gold?

You seriously have no clue but will argue whatever suits your psuedo-Siege rant of the day.

You want and can have oldschool thieves on Sieg but arent satisfied because you also play a prodo shard?

*too hypocritical & pathetic*

 

[Radun]

You might have kept your gear but you were ejected from the dungeon/T2A server for 20 minutes, unable to re-enter. Time is a factor and Risk every bit as much as equipment loss.

If you knew dying in PvP resulted in you not able engage in PvP for the next 20 minutes after your death would you consider PvPing more or less risky? Spawns lost Risk when the ejection from Dungeons was added true, but nothing has ever been put in place to replace that once it was removed. Dying is no longer a risk, you die, you rez 30 seconds later your fighting again. Removal of Insurance would work back towards putting a real risk in something that has a larger effect than 6000 gp back into dying.

And tell me what do you lose by dying at a spawn? Something you didn't have before you went there? It's breaking even your not loosing that's a vast difference.

Oh pleeease... by going into the dungeon you're risking not being able to go into the dungeon if you die? If you don't go into the dungeon in the first place, it's the same result. You haven't lost anything.

If dying in PvP meant I was unable to PvP for 20 minutes, how is that more of a loss than if I don't PvP in the first place?
I'll answer that one for you, so you don't have to bother replying... It's not any more of a loss, because if I don't PvP it's the same effect as the penalty.

'duhh i want to pvp, so i better not pvp'

 

[Nexus]

Rofl.

Now you are arguing about removal of insurance having a backwards effect?

What is more valuable son? Time or gear/gold?

You seriously have no clue but will argue whatever suits your psuedo-Siege rant of the day.

You want and can have oldschool thieves on Sieg but arent satisfied because you also play a prodo shard?

*too hypocritical & pathetic*

Time is equally valuable and has a valid place in the argument. Insurance very much so equates to Time in UO. Your Insurance Saves you more than anything TIME, with it you don't have to spend TIME building throw away suits, with insurance granting you more TIME you don't have to leave a spawn, or PvP area to continue fighting. Loss of gear equates to a Loss of TIME that's a portion of the Risk factor. Would the Changes I'm arguing for effect me...Yep...Thieves regardless what the misinformed think can't simply run around naked anymore and be successful, at least not on near the scale they were before, too many other things have changed we need our armor as much as you need yours. GM weapons outstrip the base damage Vanqs did years ago, Damage is split into Resists not just AR we can't go without armor and expect even odds. Those without Hiding and Stealth are easy to pick out, chase down and kill they don't have the skills to really defend.

Besides the armor and weapons lost would become throw away items as I mentioned, because players would adapt and no longer carry items they can't afford to lose, meaning they have little real value anyways. All they would provide is something for thieves to steal in addition to the odd rare trinket we can get now. It gives value in enjoyment through variety not through profit.

 

[Nexus]

Oh pleeease... by going into the dungeon you're risking not being able to go into the dungeon if you die? If you don't go into the dungeon in the first place, it's the same result. You haven't lost anything.

If dying in PvP meant I was unable to PvP for 20 minutes, how is that more of a loss than if I don't PvP in the first place?
I'll answer that one for you, so you don't have to bother replying... It's not any more of a loss, because if I don't PvP it's the same effect as the penalty.

'duhh i want to pvp, so i better not pvp'

Things don't work that way anymore and I don't think it good they be brought back, but something does need returned to bring a risk factor into Felucca.

Now if you go into a dungeon you risk nothing. Death in game has no consequence on either side of the moongate. You loose almost nothing in the way of time, and nothing in equipment of any type of importance. If you loose a spawn to a Raid you've lost nothing. If you die fighting at a moon gate, or in a dungeon to a PK or if your Red a Blue you loose nothing of importance, why? Because you lost nothing of any value to you as a player or of consequence to you that you didn't have before you went there. You Break Even, there's no Risk, you can't actually loose.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

Rofl.

Now you are arguing about removal of insurance having a backwards effect?

What is more valuable son? Time or gear/gold?

You seriously have no clue but will argue whatever suits your psuedo-Siege rant of the day.

You want and can have oldschool thieves on Sieg but arent satisfied because you also play a prodo shard?

*too hypocritical & pathetic*

Time is equally valuable and has a valid place in the argument. Insurance very much so equates to Time in UO. Your Insurance Saves you more than anything TIME, with it you don't have to spend TIME building throw away suits, with insurance granting you more TIME you don't have to leave a spawn, or PvP area to continue fighting. Loss of gear equates to a Loss of TIME that's a portion of the Risk factor. Would the Changes I'm arguing for effect me...Yep...Thieves regardless what the misinformed think can't simply run around naked anymore and be successful, at least not on near the scale they were before, too many other things have changed we need our armor as much as you need yours. GM weapons outstrip the base damage Vanqs did years ago, Damage is split into Resists not just AR we can't go without armor and expect even odds. Those without Hiding and Stealth are easy to pick out, chase down and kill they don't have the skills to really defend.

Besides the armor and weapons lost would become throw away items as I mentioned, because players would adapt and no longer carry items they can't afford to lose, meaning they have little real value anyways. All they would provide is something for thieves to steal in addition to the odd rare trinket we can get now. It gives value in enjoyment through variety not through profit.

Another old griefer whining that thieves lack defense.

Do you even think about what you post?

You are upset because you cant steal extremely valuable items at will AND have the skills to fight off your victim? Are you kidding me?

And you are also upset that the thieves without hiding & stealth are easily picked out? Duhhh!

Lets sum up Nexus:

You personally want a thief that can steal and defend and get away without having to use secondary skills such as hiding & stealth? Rofl.

I feel sorry for you. You and your thief class are so underpowered

 

[Radun]

Death in game has no consequence on either side of the moongate. You loose almost nothing in the way of time, and nothing in equipment of any type of importance. If you loose a spawn to a Raid you've lost nothing. If you die fighting at a moon gate, or in a dungeon to a PK or if your Red a Blue you loose nothing of importance, why? Because you lost nothing of any value to you as a player or of consequence to you that you didn't have before you went there. You Break Even, there's no Risk, you can't actually loose.

if only there was an advanced shard for players who wanted more risk......
oh wait... there is!

 

[Nexus]

Another old griefer whining that thieves lack defense.

Do you even think about what you post?

You are upset because you cant steal extremely valuable items at will AND have the skills to fight off your victim? Are you kidding me?

And you are also upset that the thieves without hiding & stealth are easily picked out? Duhhh!

Lets sum up Nexus:

You personally want a thief that can steal and defend and get away without having to use secondary skills such as hiding & stealth? Rofl.

I feel sorry for you. You and your thief class are so underpowered

First off I didn't start playing a thief till oh..about 6 months ago. So your "Old Griefer" comment doesn't apply. I don't think they are under powered either. But I do think that current game mechanics restricts them well beyond any other skill set in terms of being a playable enjoyable group. See I don't really care about Value of items I steal, what I do care about is the lack of quanity of items to steal. Pots, bandages I can pick those up off the corpses of dead Reds all night in Fel they have no enjoyment value as an item to steal.

Not upset thieves without hiding and stealth being easily picked out..I'm pointing it out because it undermines your argument of that they are risk free..You would be free to attack and kill, or avoid them knowing them for what they are. What I am upset about is your lack of ability to look past 5 years ago and account for the changes in game mechanics other than insurance that helps better prepare any player in Fel for a thief, and how those changes further make Thieves easier to find and kill because they can't be built for both Defense and Offense and still have the skills needed with current mechanics in place for stealing ability. Removal of insurance would further hamper their ability to defend and have a chance of offense because WOW they wouldn't be able to Skill up their characters either.

See I know a change to insurance would hurt you, your a provider in arms and armor, you wouldn't be able to get 2mil + for a piece of armor or a weapon anymore...it's ok you could always just sell to the Trammies. But the over all fact of the matter is removal of insurance would do more good to Fel in terms of Balancing PvP, and adding Risk to a Risk free environment, in addition to reviving an almost dead skill group. That's the major overall I've said it before Fel is nothing but an Evil Carebear, but it's still a Carebear.

 

[Nexus]

if only there was an advanced shard for players who wanted more risk......
oh wait... there is!

Oh if only they'd take Champ spawns out of Fel since Risk vs Reward doesn't justify them being there anymore.......

That's an equally valid comment. Risk vs Reward is the reason everyone including the Devs give for Power Scrolls being in Fel...Remove the Risk factor then justify the reward....

 

[Radun]

Oh if only they'd take Champ spawns out of Fel since Risk vs Reward doesn't justify them being there anymore.......

That's an equally valid comment. Risk vs Reward is the reason everyone including the Devs give for Power Scrolls being in Fel...Remove the Risk factor then justify the reward....

No it's not.
I already told you, before insurance was ever in the game, hunting for powerscrolls never meant you had to risk losing equipment.
The risk has ALWAYS been that you can be PKed. You have never had to take more risk than that. They haven't removed any risk.

Ever since the system went in: The reward you could earn was powerscrolls, which has remained. The risk you took was being PKed, which has remained.
Dropping equipment was NEVER part of the equation.
You actually lose more now dying at a spawn, without being ejected...