Possible solution to Greater Dragons in PvP

[Connor_Graham]

Yes, the statement was deliberate and obviously a 2 edged sword, now come the swing the other way.

GIVEN that it is a PETTY change, then WHY are YOU SO ADAMANT to have Tamers nerf'd over such a trivial value? (Not like it isn't obvious or anything).

Given that it is a PETTY change, then why are YOU so adamant to have EA/M spend its precious resources making a change that wont have any noticeable affect?

Given that it is a PETTY change, then why are you and the others HARASSING the community over such a PETTY change that will have NO AFFECT on the outcome of PvP?

Lets here why YOU are pushing for a PETTY Change that will have no real affect on the outcome of PvP AND obviously EXAGGERATING the problem (you know vs the PETTY change).

We are getting to the bottom line here aren't we, This is just a Petty, Bitchy, Vindictive Temper Tantrum, by a hand full, IF THAT, PKR wanna bees, that REFUSE to change to be able to be effective, in a PvP environement were Tamers are Viable, rather than some ones Training Dummy..

Given that the Devs have already said they're going to be adjusting the amount of damage, why are you still arguing against it? Are you just in a state of denial?

Or maybe the question should be:

Are you even more in a state of denial?

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

...
IT should be clear they Choose to be less effective.

Wouldn't this lead to the avocation that all templates should be nerf'd such that the opposing templates can engage them with the "Chosen" Basic Items? Why should anyone in this context be bothered to get the Good stuff?

....

You're assuming people can handle greater dragons if they were wearing the proper equipment. They're saying they'll die with or without the proper equipment.

If I'm not mistaken, people on insurance shards are also complaining about the damage dealt by Greater Dragons. Sounds to me that people on other shards just have a higher threshold for putting up with it because of how little death matters, not because this imbalance doesn't exist on those shards.

When there is more consequence to dying, imbalances hurt more. When artifacts and runic armor are put away in favor of gm armor, it's not out of fear or unfairness due the rules of the shard. It's an effort to minimize the damage until the imbalance is fixed.

Wouldn't this lead to the avocation that all templates should be nerf'd such that the opposing templates can engage them with the "Chosen" Basic Items? Why should anyone in this context be bothered to get the Good stuff?

It doesn't make sense does it. Self-admittedly, it doesn't make sense.

Logically, if you followed the reasoning you posted above, everyone should come to this conclusion -- they don't. It probably doesn't make sense because your argument is flawed, not because everyone else but you is blind.

You're missing one important point.

I made my point and at the end of your ... reply you ... concede the point to me.

You're assuming people can handle greater dragons if they were wearing the proper equipment. They're saying they'll die with or without the proper equipment.

There is obviously no assumption being made on my part (as in I know from personal experience that a player can easily kill a Greater Dragon). Greater Dragons are easily killed. You are clearly asserting the proposition that Greater Dragons CAN NOT BE KILLED BY PLAYERS.

If you take the time to read what these endless noxious threads are saying, you will see clearly every single individual asserts at one time or another that a Greater Dragon CAN be killed. No one but you has asserted that they can not be. My Cream Puff Characters kill them all the time.

If I'm not mistaken, people on insurance shards are also complaining about the damage dealt by Greater Dragons. Sounds to me that people on other shards just have a higher threshold for putting up with it because of how little death matters, not because this imbalance doesn't exist on those shards.

When there is more consequence to dying, imbalances hurt more. When artifacts and runic armor are put away in favor of gm armor, it's not out of fear or unfairness due the rules of the shard. It's an effort to minimize the damage until the imbalance is fixed.

So now YOU INJECT the subjective concept of what death means to players. YOU assert that this is easily done by simply stereotyping people. The value of this revelation is that you are putting all players that PK/Zerg/Gank/CorpseCamp/Gate Camp AND DO NOT use insurance as ... fearing ... oops, being the most concerned with death, those that PK/Zerg/Gank/CorpseCamp/Gate Camp AND DO use insurance are the 2nd most fearing ... oops concerned with death, and not even worth mentioning are those that PvM/Just Play the game/Adapt to changes AND use insurance, you make it clear they have NO concerns, fears or any feelings what so ever about there pets death or their characters death.

That posturing is clearly constructive to your overall assertion that the PvM/Insurance people are worthless, except to provide the funds required to keep UO running, subsidize SP and PvP. Do not try to cover that revelation up with some pointless/meaningless rhetoric. You have revealed your perception of the Majority of UO players. I have made it crystal clear to them what you think of them.

One could say, stereotyping, demeaning, defining them as having no value and discriminating against a group of people may not be ... very friendly or community building.

not because this imbalance doesn't exist on those shards.

When there is more consequence to dying, imbalances hurt more.

You assert there is an imbalance as though that is a given/proven and as such you making that assertion invalidates any and all other people that does not agree. There is no assertion made by those seeking a Nerf that has not been explained away or proven to be a ... lack of knowledge about the game. The only point that anyone has said, that IF UNIQUELY TRUE of Tamers is the ability to attack an opponent and remain hidden, should be addressed ONLY IF IT IS UNIQUE TO TAMERS. What the scenario basically describes is the ability to perform a ranged attack and remain hidden. If no other template can perform this action, then yes there is merit to changing that.

Wouldn't this lead to the avocation that all templates should be nerf'd such that the opposing templates can engage them with the "Chosen" Basic Items? Why should anyone in this context be bothered to get the Good stuff?

It doesn't make sense does it. Self-admittedly, it doesn't make sense.

Logically, if you followed the reasoning you posted above, everyone should come to this conclusion -- they don't. It probably doesn't make sense because your argument is flawed, not because everyone else but you is blind.

Well, we get to your personal attacking me part don't we

Logic, you demonstrate there is no universal definition of what is logical. That in fact every thing can be perverted to support ones posture.

You rebut an assertion highlighting the LOGICAL extension of catering to a statistically insignificant number of people that choose to go to a party under dressed. That then DEMAND the party be changed to suit THEIR CHOICES.

With, your passive insult of I am to blind to know anything.

Well I see clearly enough that you fear that point and concede to me the validity of the point. Thank you.

 

[CroakerTnT]

Just got hit with 129 damage fireball against a 62 fire resist suit.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

However, they cannot use a petball to make the GD keep up ... and a GD CANNOT keep up at mounted speed. It can barely keep up at on-foot running speed. It has to do that little "jump" to its master every 10 or so tiles to keep up (which they do not do when following "prey").

In other words, if the tamer is in form and running, the GD will be left far behind, leaving the tamer wide open for attack without repurcussions ....

Next?

The GD does not have to keep up.

Here is an example.

Tamer's skills are :

Taming
Lore
Archery
Tactics
Ninja
Hide
Stealth

The tamer is on foot. Tamer uses a heavy crossbow to dismount his opponent. 30-40 damage with hit spell. Tamer yells all kill. Dragon casts spell. Opponent runs away on foot. Breath damage lands. Opponent is dead.

If the opponent can survive and remount, tamer hides and stealths away to try again later.

If opponent calls in the entire shard to kill Tamer's greater Dragon, Tamer stealths away and logs out.

Believe me, I've seen it a million times.

All you have seen a million times is an inexperienced noob die.

Tamer is on foot and with the right template/gear there is no way the dragon is killing you with his first firebreath/spell. And that is when you kill the Tamer. Even with stealth and or smokebombs. I run all my chars with 140 hp and pots. No dragon in all of Uo is dropping me first round and that is when the Tamer dies damn near everytime.

Your little scenario clearly states that the attacked runs away. Unfortunately that is most likely the first instinct for most of the babies currently whining for GD nerfs so they deserve what they get by dying on a full retreat. Instead they should be prepared and going offensive.

No guts, no glory. Heaven forbid that someone should have to maybe tweak or replace their current template with something more effective if they have such a serious and specific issue(GD's)
Instead lets just whine to the Devs to bail us out so we dont have to adapt.

Peace

 

[Multani]

Thats it? That is the best you can do? Then compare baby nerf's to what YOU caused to happen to tamers and NOW YOUR CRYING because they got some loving THAT YOU CAUSED THEM TO NEED?

That is the best you can do?

On Siege Perilous I can see the greater dragons needing some fine tuning, as any naked tamer can get lucky and kill even the best equipped player on that shard and get an entire suit at no risk. Throw on a dismount bow and the chances keep improving.

And secondly please don't even say that every other template hasn't been nerfed just as much as a tamer. If anything I would have to say they have all been nerfed equally over the years, sadly at different times causing other templates to stand out as overpowered.

 

[LadyNico]

I'm not too concerned about the greater dragons in PvP for the most part. They are too slow to really be much of a danger with their melee attacks and/or their spells.

However, their fire breath cannot be avoided and usually results in instant death. It's as bad as the old sammurai one-hit kills. I took 156 points of damage on a mage (with ~50 fire resist suit) from a fireball one day. (yes, I can beef up the fire resist, but even with 70 resist, that'd be a one hit kill)

So, the first step should be to eliminate the fire breath damage in PvP.

Their spells aren't as big a problem, but I am annoyed at how they can chain spells at you much faster than a player and seem to be able to cast from off-screen. Limiting their FC/FCR and range to the same as players would solve this.

Ok, let the flames begin!

50 fire resist? Oh, c'mon! My ninja herding fisher mage would wtfpwn you with a measly 50 fire resist. Even on foot you can easily outrun a dragon, even a greater one!

Surely, you accept that blaming a dragon for your poor skill and/or armour is pretty silly.

Free of charge I give you:-

Auntie Nico's Handy Hints for Dealing with Greater Dragonkin

1. Improve resists (both skill & armour)
2. Know when to stand your ground and know when to run (then run faster)
3. Be better.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

fix your template/suit and stfu.

Please tell us oh wise guru. How do we fix our template and/or suit to NOT get hit for double the PvP damage cap?

I'm sorry Connor but are you lost?

I believe you once again stumbled into a Pvp discussion.

 

[Krystal]

tonight we have some big fights in Luna. Point A a tamer with a GD attacks me. he misses his dismount with his heavy, the dragon dumps on me i manage to get my self to full life at point B and i go threw the crack in the wall. The dragon gets called back at point b cause its stuck on the other side. I stop at point C think damn that was close when all sudden a explosion then Fireball hits me and kills me at 95 STR, 70 fire resist, 115 magic resist. the tamer didn't know i was even dead. i waited a min when my guild mates got to me and rezzed me. and the tamer never showed up to try and loot. now how can any tamer say this is fair.

 

[Krystal]

here's another situation. I go to hyloth with a friend, I see an enimy factioner farming demons. i go into the room (point A) attack him, the dragon is told to kill me. i run out, at point B the doors slam close but im still taking damage as im running i chug a pot, use confidence heal and us a bandage, at point C i jump into the sparklies down a level to point D. were the fire ball goes off and kills me. now clearly point A is where the dragon was behind close doors and plus i was down at point D a whole different level. again im wearing 70 FR, 115 magic resist 95 STR. My friend was like no way how u die?? the GD is in the room still... and how is this fair again???

PS this is only 2 situations of many times this stuff has happened with a tamer.

 

[Chad Sexington]

...
IT should be clear they Choose to be less effective.

Wouldn't this lead to the avocation that all templates should be nerf'd such that the opposing templates can engage them with the "Chosen" Basic Items? Why should anyone in this context be bothered to get the Good stuff?

....

You're assuming people can handle greater dragons if they were wearing the proper equipment. They're saying they'll die with or without the proper equipment.

If I'm not mistaken, people on insurance shards are also complaining about the damage dealt by Greater Dragons. Sounds to me that people on other shards just have a higher threshold for putting up with it because of how little death matters, not because this imbalance doesn't exist on those shards.

When there is more consequence to dying, imbalances hurt more. When artifacts and runic armor are put away in favor of gm armor, it's not out of fear or unfairness due the rules of the shard. It's an effort to minimize the damage until the imbalance is fixed.

Wouldn't this lead to the avocation that all templates should be nerf'd such that the opposing templates can engage them with the "Chosen" Basic Items? Why should anyone in this context be bothered to get the Good stuff?

It doesn't make sense does it. Self-admittedly, it doesn't make sense.

Logically, if you followed the reasoning you posted above, everyone should come to this conclusion -- they don't. It probably doesn't make sense because your argument is flawed, not because everyone else but you is blind.

You're missing one important point.

I made my point and at the end of your ... reply you ... concede the point to me.

You're assuming people can handle greater dragons if they were wearing the proper equipment. They're saying they'll die with or without the proper equipment.

There is obviously no assumption being made on my part (as in I know from personal experience that a player can easily kill a Greater Dragon). Greater Dragons are easily killed. You are clearly asserting the proposition that Greater Dragons CAN NOT BE KILLED BY PLAYERS.

If you take the time to read what these endless noxious threads are saying, you will see clearly every single individual asserts at one time or another that a Greater Dragon CAN be killed. No one but you has asserted that they can not be. My Cream Puff Characters kill them all the time.

If I'm not mistaken, people on insurance shards are also complaining about the damage dealt by Greater Dragons. Sounds to me that people on other shards just have a higher threshold for putting up with it because of how little death matters, not because this imbalance doesn't exist on those shards.

When there is more consequence to dying, imbalances hurt more. When artifacts and runic armor are put away in favor of gm armor, it's not out of fear or unfairness due the rules of the shard. It's an effort to minimize the damage until the imbalance is fixed.

So now YOU INJECT the subjective concept of what death means to players. YOU assert that this is easily done by simply stereotyping people. The value of this revelation is that you are putting all players that PK/Zerg/Gank/CorpseCamp/Gate Camp AND DO NOT use insurance as ... fearing ... oops, being the most concerned with death, those that PK/Zerg/Gank/CorpseCamp/Gate Camp AND DO use insurance are the 2nd most fearing ... oops concerned with death, and not even worth mentioning are those that PvM/Just Play the game/Adapt to changes AND use insurance, you make it clear they have NO concerns, fears or any feelings what so ever about there pets death or their characters death.

That posturing is clearly constructive to your overall assertion that the PvM/Insurance people are worthless, except to provide the funds required to keep UO running, subsidize SP and PvP. Do not try to cover that revelation up with some pointless/meaningless rhetoric. You have revealed your perception of the Majority of UO players. I have made it crystal clear to them what you think of them.

One could say, stereotyping, demeaning, defining them as having no value and discriminating against a group of people may not be ... very friendly or community building.

not because this imbalance doesn't exist on those shards.

When there is more consequence to dying, imbalances hurt more.

You assert there is an imbalance as though that is a given/proven and as such you making that assertion invalidates any and all other people that does not agree. There is no assertion made by those seeking a Nerf that has not been explained away or proven to be a ... lack of knowledge about the game. The only point that anyone has said, that IF UNIQUELY TRUE of Tamers is the ability to attack an opponent and remain hidden, should be addressed ONLY IF IT IS UNIQUE TO TAMERS. What the scenario basically describes is the ability to perform a ranged attack and remain hidden. If no other template can perform this action, then yes there is merit to changing that.

Wouldn't this lead to the avocation that all templates should be nerf'd such that the opposing templates can engage them with the "Chosen" Basic Items? Why should anyone in this context be bothered to get the Good stuff?

It doesn't make sense does it. Self-admittedly, it doesn't make sense.

Logically, if you followed the reasoning you posted above, everyone should come to this conclusion -- they don't. It probably doesn't make sense because your argument is flawed, not because everyone else but you is blind.

Well, we get to your personal attacking me part don't we

Logic, you demonstrate there is no universal definition of what is logical. That in fact every thing can be perverted to support ones posture.

You rebut an assertion highlighting the LOGICAL extension of catering to a statistically insignificant number of people that choose to go to a party under dressed. That then DEMAND the party be changed to suit THEIR CHOICES.

With, your passive insult of I am to blind to know anything.

Well I see clearly enough that you fear that point and concede to me the validity of the point. Thank you.

I think we've sufficiently posted our thoughts are on the issue originally brought up by the OP. I don't think either one of us is changing our minds. But there are a couple sub-topics that you bring up that just aren't true:

So now YOU INJECT the subjective concept of what death means to players. YOU assert that this is easily done by simply stereotyping people. The value of this revelation is that you are putting all players that PK/Zerg/Gank/CorpseCamp/Gate Camp AND DO NOT use insurance as ... fearing ... oops, being the most concerned with death, those that PK/Zerg/Gank/CorpseCamp/Gate Camp AND DO use insurance are the 2nd most fearing ... oops concerned with death, and not even worth mentioning are those that PvM/Just Play the game/Adapt to changes AND use insurance, you make it clear they have NO concerns, fears or any feelings what so ever about there pets death or their characters death.

That posturing is clearly constructive to your overall assertion that the PvM/Insurance people are worthless, except to provide the funds required to keep UO running, subsidize SP and PvP. Do not try to cover that revelation up with some pointless/meaningless rhetoric. You have revealed your perception of the Majority of UO players. I have made it crystal clear to them what you think of them.

One could say, stereotyping, demeaning, defining them as having no value and discriminating against a group of people may not be ... very friendly or community building.

Somehow you made the jump from me saying, "death doesn't matter as much on insurance shards" to everything you said in the quote above...?

That isn't a slam or a discrimination. You took a comment talking about gold value and twisted it into some sort of quasi-social prejudice spilling over into the gaming world aimed at the players behind the characters...? Death doesn't matter as much (in gold value). That's the whole point of insurance. People have many different play styles. PvP on insurance shards can be fun. It's just different.

I don't know where you get the rest.

If you look at any of my other posts, a theme in all of them whenever SP vs Insurance, Trammel vs. Felucca, or PvM vs PvP, is "Different Playstyles." I've never used the word Trammie and never call for the deletion or removal of any of the other playstyles, facets or shards.

I've been on Siege Perilous for less than 2 months. I've played on Napa Valley for 10 years. I think you're the one grouping me into some other category. Not the other way around.

Well, we get to your personal attacking me part don't we

Logic, you demonstrate there is no universal definition of what is logical. That in fact every thing can be perverted to support ones posture.

You rebut an assertion highlighting the LOGICAL extension of catering to a statistically insignificant number of people that choose to go to a party under dressed. That then DEMAND the party be changed to suit THEIR CHOICES.

With, your passive insult of I am to blind to know anything.

Well I see clearly enough that you fear that point and concede to me the validity of the point. Thank you.

I was pointing out the fact that if logic leads you to a dead end (in a discussion on a gaming forum or anywhere else in life), maybe there is something wrong with the reasoning, not the world. Using the word "blind" was a poor choice of words.




One more thing: Your constant use of sarcasm isn't helping the discussion. I think you think it somehow makes the points you're making more valid...? Or maybe the points other people are making laughable...?

 

[Chad Sexington]

I just took some time to go through some of your earlier posts in this thread:

The best solution to Greater Dragons in PvP ...

Ignore all the whiny little cry babies (especially the Sp spoiled incompetent babies, that are crapping their diapers being to afraid to risk losing anything) that are 100% clueless how to PvP for real vs a Scripted (as in you cant do this this this or this and you cant use this or this or this).

Just ignore them and their endless whining/crying to have some one give them GOD MODE.

All this whining by the totally clueless/incompetent cry baby PvP wanna be's is making the case of just simply shutting down PvP in UO. Shutting down Sp is included in that discussion.

While I had been opposed, I know am convinced my UO tax (subscription) are being 100% wasted on trying to facilitate the whiny, incompetent, cry babies. Let em just be Bank Sitters trash talking about how superior they are to every one else.

Give them their own bank with NPC that act like PC's (a chance to develop new AI) so they can get their fix of being an online .... what ever they think they are.

Bull Crap, that is what is stated in every single one of these bitchy little whiny Oh Nerf ..........

"There is NO Insurance on the UBER/SUPERIOR/ADVANCED sp".

IF there is NO UBER ITEMS TO LOSE OR they are NOT AFRAID, then why the "There is NO INSURANCE" whine? No, it is there to state explicitly how SUPERIOR they believe themselves to be AND IMPLICITLY states HOW TERRIFIED THEY ARE, THAT THEY WILL LOSE THE UBER STUFF.

THEY ARE TO DARN AFRAID OF LOSING...... AND they obviously think the Greater Dragon is GONNA EAT MY UBER STUFF AND I WILL NEVER GET IT BACK.

Talk about the Pan Ultimate Bank Sitting Prima Donna's.

That is EXACTLY what you and the other cry babies are doing TOTALY REMOVING ANY DAMAGE YOU DO and DESPERATELY FOCUSING on the Fire Breath.

Here is YOUR argument in a Nut Shell.

The Greater Dragon is Casting a Fire Breath Attack, every second, that does 140 Damage up to 100 Screens away (and never ever even bother to explain how anything managed to target YOU from that distance).

With your CLASIC REBUTTAL, Any DPS I have is not there as I am INSTANTLY KILLED BY THE GREATER DRAGON 100 SCREENS AWAY.

As for the Question of How was some one killed 3 screens away by the Greater Dragon's Fire Breath.

A) You were wrong in your initial assertion that Greater Dragons were Insta Killing everyone. IT WAS 100% proven you were asking for it with your equipment.

B) EXPLAIN how a Greater Dragon SELECTIVLY Targets YOU from 3 screens away.

C) What part of Instantaneous Damage is so hard for you to understand VS THE ANOMALY OF UO CODING THAT GIVES THE APPEARANCE A FIRE BALL (AKA ALL RANGED ATTACKS) IS CHASING YOU FOR 100+ SCREENS. The Damage was DONE 100 SCREENS EARLIER.

So NO there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with the Greater Dragons Breath Attack, other than YOU GOT CAUGHT and OUT FINESSED/FOUGHT/BATTLED/PLAYED. Try Learning from your failures and IMPROVE YOURSELF.

An analogy, A Newbie (to Greater Dragons) Tamer goes to tame a Greater Dragon, they DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE (repeat 10's if not 100's of times). Each time the become HARDER TO KILL, Get Closer to Taming the GD. THEY ARE LEARNING.

They are NOT here whining and crying about Oh That Over Powered Greater Dragon is JUST TO DARN HARD TO TAME.

THEY ARE LEARNING. One day they STOP DIEING and the Greater Dragons Begin to BE TAMED ON A REGULAR BASIS. They LEARNED HOW TO LIVE WITH GREATER DRAGONS.

They did it by playing and NOT COMMING HERE AND WHINING / CRYING about their inability to play their Template Well.

As to the JOKE about the Tamer being eaten by his own Dragon. IF (and I am confident it is a blatant lie) it were true, then JUST HOW BADLY DO YOU SUCK THAT YOU CAN'T KILL THAT TAMER?

Fine this is something to reply to.

I GET IT, I UNDERSTAND What the WHINE/CRYING is about.

WHAT IS MISSED IS THIS, IT IS YOUR OWN FAULT.

Tamers were a straight forward, simple Template.

THEN OSI LISTENED TO THE WHINY/CRY BABIES and taming got, and keeps on getting, FUBAR'D (AKA Screwed UP).

GET THIS, UNDERSTAND IT.

YOU (no not you personally) caused the greatest single NERF to a CLASS/TEMPLATE etc, in EVERY SINGLE MMORPG. YOU Reduced tamers by 99.9999999999999999999999999999999% of what they were. I KNOW I WAS THERE THEN AND I AM HERE NOW. I know how badly YOU NERF'D TAMERS.

NOW then Make sure you FOLLOW THESE DOT's. MAKE SURE YOU CONNECT THEM.

We didn't have the NUMBERS ON HOW GOOD OR BAD OUR PETS WERE. We didn't have Bonding.

BUT IT DIDN'T TAKE 2 YEARS TO MAX TAMING either.

It didnt take 50 attempts at MAX Taming level to TAME an INFERIOR Pet either. You got GM (aka 100) Taming at most it took 2 times to tame the highest to tame pet then The White Wyrm.

Now with 120 Taming, your Lucky to get that same WW in 10 attempts and probably 20 is more realistic. Get to the 100+ To Tames and the number starts approaching 50.

WE DIDNT HAVE LINE OF SIGHT BUGS every step either. Start a Tame cycle, Lead Taming, and YOU MUST WATCH / BE VERY COGNIZANT of the terrain your in OR "You can no longer continue to tame this monster as you do NOT have a clear line of sight", the OBSTICAL? Why that millimeter thick piece of HAY. THEN OF COURSE YOUR PENALIZED for that even further as you MUST wait for the BUSTED tame cycle to run its FULL COURSE.

THEN YOUR INCESSANT WHINING (so the story goes as I can NOT verify this) Causes the Dragons, White Wyrms, Nightmares to be NERF'd by 50%.

THEN YOUR INCESSANT WHINING Causes the Pets to be assigned Control Slot Numbers and the Tamer given a MAX 5 Control Slots.

BY THIS TIME TAMERS ARE A JOKE, A NOTHING compared to what they had been.

REMEMBER YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT FOLLOWS THIS.

NOW COMES THE OSI/EAM INCONSISTENCY. One the RIGHT HAND slaped Tamers INTO NON EXISTENCE, the LEFT HAND comes along and starts to make things better.

Lets give the Tamers a bone and let them see the numbers that make up the majority of their pets abilities. (See Note 1 on what a total FUBAR this was for PvP).

Ok, Now that Tamers can see how lame or good their pets are, they go FIGURE OUT HOW TO TRAIN THEM.

Ok, Now that Tamers are Training pets, they have a HUGE TIME SINK invested in the pet. With BUGS causing the pets to vanish, Items being retained on DEATH, then the NEXT LOGICAL DOT in this sequence is created BONDING.

Now that sets the stage for putting Tamers on an EQUAL LEVEL with the other templates. HENCE THE Dread War Horse re-establishes what the Nightmare had been (at 80%) and the Greater Dragon re-establishes what the the Dragon had been at 80%.

In anticipation of the Whiny/Cry Babies, the Breath attack is made a limited range, RANDOMLY FIRED, Burst Damage Attack. The Sustained Attack of the GD is BELOW the levels a properly equiped Player can do. The RANDOMLY FIRED, Burst DAMAGE Attack, is the random factor that MAY change the course of events to favor the tamer. THE OVER ALL PICTURE IS Balance.

YOU cause all of this, with the never ending whining and crying about tamers and their pets.

Two catagories,

The Category as PROVEN to exist by a player in the other therad. I DON'T WANT TO PvM SO TAMERS HAVE NO PLACE TO BE in PvP OTHER THAN MY PUNCHING BAG/TRAINING DUMMY.

The Category as PROVEN to exist bgy almost every whiny, crying post. I HAVE MY FAVORITE TOYS, THEY ARE KILLING ME BUT I REFUSE TO CHANGE THEM. INSTEAD I WILL CRY ABOUT HOW OVER POWERED A GREATER DRAGON IS.

DO YOU HONESTLY THINK, that if EA/M's RIGHT HAND NERFS TAMERS AGAIN to be YOUR Punching Bag, YOUR TRAINING DUMMY, that EA/M's LEFT HAND WONT SWING THE SCALES AGAIN?

Same everyone the Trauma, LEARN HOW TO DEAL WITH TAMERS THAT HAVE GREATER DRAGONS. DO NOT LET THE OSCILLATION (AKA SINE WAVE) CONTINUE.

Note 1: Displaying the Pets Numbers, simply drove the Tamers to always cycle up their pets. This means for PvP that instead of facing the NORMAL RANGE of a MoB you are ALWAYS FACING THE BEST OF THE BEST. YOU MADE THIS HAPPEN, ACCEPT THE RESPONSIBILITY.

Thats it? That is the best you can do? Then compare baby nerf's to what YOU caused to happen to tamers and NOW YOUR CRYING because they got some loving THAT YOU CAUSED THEM TO NEED?

That is the best you can do?

So it's just one long string of troll posts. You're just fishing for someone to give you a serious response. And when you do, you throw a bunch of big words together to mock an serious response of your own and pounce on the word "blind" used in an analogy.

You got me.

Good one.

 

[Arch Magus]

I just took some time to go through some of your earlier posts in this thread:

The best solution to Greater Dragons in PvP ...

Ignore all the whiny little cry babies (especially the Sp spoiled incompetent babies, that are crapping their diapers being to afraid to risk losing anything) that are 100% clueless how to PvP for real vs a Scripted (as in you cant do this this this or this and you cant use this or this or this).

Just ignore them and their endless whining/crying to have some one give them GOD MODE.

All this whining by the totally clueless/incompetent cry baby PvP wanna be's is making the case of just simply shutting down PvP in UO. Shutting down Sp is included in that discussion.

While I had been opposed, I know am convinced my UO tax (subscription) are being 100% wasted on trying to facilitate the whiny, incompetent, cry babies. Let em just be Bank Sitters trash talking about how superior they are to every one else.

Give them their own bank with NPC that act like PC's (a chance to develop new AI) so they can get their fix of being an online .... what ever they think they are.

Bull Crap, that is what is stated in every single one of these bitchy little whiny Oh Nerf ..........

"There is NO Insurance on the UBER/SUPERIOR/ADVANCED sp".

IF there is NO UBER ITEMS TO LOSE OR they are NOT AFRAID, then why the "There is NO INSURANCE" whine? No, it is there to state explicitly how SUPERIOR they believe themselves to be AND IMPLICITLY states HOW TERRIFIED THEY ARE, THAT THEY WILL LOSE THE UBER STUFF.

THEY ARE TO DARN AFRAID OF LOSING...... AND they obviously think the Greater Dragon is GONNA EAT MY UBER STUFF AND I WILL NEVER GET IT BACK.

Talk about the Pan Ultimate Bank Sitting Prima Donna's.

That is EXACTLY what you and the other cry babies are doing TOTALY REMOVING ANY DAMAGE YOU DO and DESPERATELY FOCUSING on the Fire Breath.

Here is YOUR argument in a Nut Shell.

The Greater Dragon is Casting a Fire Breath Attack, every second, that does 140 Damage up to 100 Screens away (and never ever even bother to explain how anything managed to target YOU from that distance).

With your CLASIC REBUTTAL, Any DPS I have is not there as I am INSTANTLY KILLED BY THE GREATER DRAGON 100 SCREENS AWAY.

As for the Question of How was some one killed 3 screens away by the Greater Dragon's Fire Breath.

A) You were wrong in your initial assertion that Greater Dragons were Insta Killing everyone. IT WAS 100% proven you were asking for it with your equipment.

B) EXPLAIN how a Greater Dragon SELECTIVLY Targets YOU from 3 screens away.

C) What part of Instantaneous Damage is so hard for you to understand VS THE ANOMALY OF UO CODING THAT GIVES THE APPEARANCE A FIRE BALL (AKA ALL RANGED ATTACKS) IS CHASING YOU FOR 100+ SCREENS. The Damage was DONE 100 SCREENS EARLIER.

So NO there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with the Greater Dragons Breath Attack, other than YOU GOT CAUGHT and OUT FINESSED/FOUGHT/BATTLED/PLAYED. Try Learning from your failures and IMPROVE YOURSELF.

An analogy, A Newbie (to Greater Dragons) Tamer goes to tame a Greater Dragon, they DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE (repeat 10's if not 100's of times). Each time the become HARDER TO KILL, Get Closer to Taming the GD. THEY ARE LEARNING.

They are NOT here whining and crying about Oh That Over Powered Greater Dragon is JUST TO DARN HARD TO TAME.

THEY ARE LEARNING. One day they STOP DIEING and the Greater Dragons Begin to BE TAMED ON A REGULAR BASIS. They LEARNED HOW TO LIVE WITH GREATER DRAGONS.

They did it by playing and NOT COMMING HERE AND WHINING / CRYING about their inability to play their Template Well.

As to the JOKE about the Tamer being eaten by his own Dragon. IF (and I am confident it is a blatant lie) it were true, then JUST HOW BADLY DO YOU SUCK THAT YOU CAN'T KILL THAT TAMER?

Fine this is something to reply to.

I GET IT, I UNDERSTAND What the WHINE/CRYING is about.

WHAT IS MISSED IS THIS, IT IS YOUR OWN FAULT.

Tamers were a straight forward, simple Template.

THEN OSI LISTENED TO THE WHINY/CRY BABIES and taming got, and keeps on getting, FUBAR'D (AKA Screwed UP).

GET THIS, UNDERSTAND IT.

YOU (no not you personally) caused the greatest single NERF to a CLASS/TEMPLATE etc, in EVERY SINGLE MMORPG. YOU Reduced tamers by 99.9999999999999999999999999999999% of what they were. I KNOW I WAS THERE THEN AND I AM HERE NOW. I know how badly YOU NERF'D TAMERS.

NOW then Make sure you FOLLOW THESE DOT's. MAKE SURE YOU CONNECT THEM.

We didn't have the NUMBERS ON HOW GOOD OR BAD OUR PETS WERE. We didn't have Bonding.

BUT IT DIDN'T TAKE 2 YEARS TO MAX TAMING either.

It didnt take 50 attempts at MAX Taming level to TAME an INFERIOR Pet either. You got GM (aka 100) Taming at most it took 2 times to tame the highest to tame pet then The White Wyrm.

Now with 120 Taming, your Lucky to get that same WW in 10 attempts and probably 20 is more realistic. Get to the 100+ To Tames and the number starts approaching 50.

WE DIDNT HAVE LINE OF SIGHT BUGS every step either. Start a Tame cycle, Lead Taming, and YOU MUST WATCH / BE VERY COGNIZANT of the terrain your in OR "You can no longer continue to tame this monster as you do NOT have a clear line of sight", the OBSTICAL? Why that millimeter thick piece of HAY. THEN OF COURSE YOUR PENALIZED for that even further as you MUST wait for the BUSTED tame cycle to run its FULL COURSE.

THEN YOUR INCESSANT WHINING (so the story goes as I can NOT verify this) Causes the Dragons, White Wyrms, Nightmares to be NERF'd by 50%.

THEN YOUR INCESSANT WHINING Causes the Pets to be assigned Control Slot Numbers and the Tamer given a MAX 5 Control Slots.

BY THIS TIME TAMERS ARE A JOKE, A NOTHING compared to what they had been.

REMEMBER YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT FOLLOWS THIS.

NOW COMES THE OSI/EAM INCONSISTENCY. One the RIGHT HAND slaped Tamers INTO NON EXISTENCE, the LEFT HAND comes along and starts to make things better.

Lets give the Tamers a bone and let them see the numbers that make up the majority of their pets abilities. (See Note 1 on what a total FUBAR this was for PvP).

Ok, Now that Tamers can see how lame or good their pets are, they go FIGURE OUT HOW TO TRAIN THEM.

Ok, Now that Tamers are Training pets, they have a HUGE TIME SINK invested in the pet. With BUGS causing the pets to vanish, Items being retained on DEATH, then the NEXT LOGICAL DOT in this sequence is created BONDING.

Now that sets the stage for putting Tamers on an EQUAL LEVEL with the other templates. HENCE THE Dread War Horse re-establishes what the Nightmare had been (at 80%) and the Greater Dragon re-establishes what the the Dragon had been at 80%.

In anticipation of the Whiny/Cry Babies, the Breath attack is made a limited range, RANDOMLY FIRED, Burst Damage Attack. The Sustained Attack of the GD is BELOW the levels a properly equiped Player can do. The RANDOMLY FIRED, Burst DAMAGE Attack, is the random factor that MAY change the course of events to favor the tamer. THE OVER ALL PICTURE IS Balance.

YOU cause all of this, with the never ending whining and crying about tamers and their pets.

Two catagories,

The Category as PROVEN to exist by a player in the other therad. I DON'T WANT TO PvM SO TAMERS HAVE NO PLACE TO BE in PvP OTHER THAN MY PUNCHING BAG/TRAINING DUMMY.

The Category as PROVEN to exist bgy almost every whiny, crying post. I HAVE MY FAVORITE TOYS, THEY ARE KILLING ME BUT I REFUSE TO CHANGE THEM. INSTEAD I WILL CRY ABOUT HOW OVER POWERED A GREATER DRAGON IS.

DO YOU HONESTLY THINK, that if EA/M's RIGHT HAND NERFS TAMERS AGAIN to be YOUR Punching Bag, YOUR TRAINING DUMMY, that EA/M's LEFT HAND WONT SWING THE SCALES AGAIN?

Same everyone the Trauma, LEARN HOW TO DEAL WITH TAMERS THAT HAVE GREATER DRAGONS. DO NOT LET THE OSCILLATION (AKA SINE WAVE) CONTINUE.

Note 1: Displaying the Pets Numbers, simply drove the Tamers to always cycle up their pets. This means for PvP that instead of facing the NORMAL RANGE of a MoB you are ALWAYS FACING THE BEST OF THE BEST. YOU MADE THIS HAPPEN, ACCEPT THE RESPONSIBILITY.

Thats it? That is the best you can do? Then compare baby nerf's to what YOU caused to happen to tamers and NOW YOUR CRYING because they got some loving THAT YOU CAUSED THEM TO NEED?

That is the best you can do?

So it's just one long string of troll posts. You're just fishing for someone to give you a serious response. And when you do, you throw a bunch of big words together to mock an serious response of your own and pounce on the word "blind" used in an analogy.

You got me.

Good one.

*applauds*

 

[Chad Sexington]

Oh yeah, one more thing.

This thread could use more quotes.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Oh yeah, one more thing.

I'll add one more thing to your one more thing (aside from another quote )

Note that he conveniently ignores anyone or any post that includes an example of burst damage (as he puts it) that was nerfed because the amount of that damage in a single hit was over the damage cap. It's funny how he ignores the proof and continues to argue (in other words call groups of players childish names) why GD's should retain something that has always been proven to be overpowered in the past.

And all this in spite of the fact that the Devs have plainly stated that they're going to be doing a pet damage balancing pass based on the complaints of the amount of damage the GD fire breath does.

Oh well....

So many threads.......so much sarcasm......so little time....

 

[Wenchkin]

When it comes to Siege, I wonder if it would be better to remove pet bonding so tamers couldn't keep their weapons without taking care of them, and removing greaters completely. Because I think, if we kept taking the greater down to ensure Siege players in uninsured kit could kill them, they wouldn't be worth 5 slots when all the nerfing was done.

The other alternative would be to make them spawn in fewer areas of Siege and remove pet bonding so that keeping your tamer in greater drags becomes much harder.

If Siege was to retain greater dragons, they should be nerfed to a level where they're still useable in production shard PvP, say with hard capped fire breath and being unable to cast while puffing. I think it would look pretty silly if a dragon puffed yet did 0 damage, but I don't have a huge issue with the damage being lessened to a more sensible level. Just not turning them into reptalons mk 2.

Though nerfing shouldn't be done to a level that compensates for a lack of PvP skill or a decent suit on production shards. I don't want to be the top damager in PvP with pets, but I'm not willing to accept reptalon mk 2 because some muppets got killed by a greater and hadn't the savvy to figure out how to fight back.

Wenchy

 

[Krystal]

in my opinion, all they need to do if nurf them. our weapons are capped at 35, so a dragons as a weapon should be capped at 35. our spells have a casting time, dragons spells should have a casting time. We have a limited range, so should dragon.
or u cant say "all kill" against a play. most tamers have a skill in weapon. why should tamers get 2 weapon skills to attack with at the same time. its not like they are defenseless without thier pets.

 

[Wenchkin]

But nerfing just the greater dragon to that extent would mean the tamer would simply claim another pet instead... on we'd go nerfing damage for siege... I think it would make better sense to kill pet bonding and remove greaters. Surely that really brings tamers in line with other classes, as compared to fixing 1 pet or trying to hash out a fix for individual pets? Because that greater is just 1 pet, and I remember the complaints about tamers with all sorts of pets on Siege. The problems don't stop with greater dragons.

As for tamers having other attacks, well yes they do - what's new about that? But what are we supposed to do, make it so tamers can't use any attack methods while pets are alive or halve their damage so both attack at once? I can see how lovely that might be for the tamer's enemy, but I didn't think Siege players needed that much assistance to defeat a tamer. A tamer doing what, 17.5 damage per hit, the dragon the same... even if the tamer was vetting and fighting at the same time, I wouldn't fancy their chances lol.

It would be better if we could come up with easy solutions to please players who fight tamers on Siege and production shards. But it will require some anti-tamer folks to think about fairness for their opponents at times. I don't want my profession to have a crap reputation, but I do want to have fun whether I'm in Fel or Siege.

Wenchy

 

[Krystal]

tonight we have some big fights in Luna. Point A a tamer with a GD attacks me. he misses his dismount with his heavy, the dragon dumps on me i manage to get my self to full life at point B and i go threw the crack in the wall. The dragon gets called back at point b cause its stuck on the other side. I stop at point C think damn that was close when all sudden a explosion then Fireball hits me and kills me at 95 STR, 70 fire resist, 115 magic resist. the tamer didn't know i was even dead. i waited a min when my guild mates got to me and rezzed me. and the tamer never showed up to try and loot. now how can any tamer say this is fair.

here's another situation. I go to hyloth with a friend, I see an enimy factioner farming demons. i go into the room (point A) attack him, the dragon is told to kill me. i run out, at point B the doors slam close but im still taking damage as im running i chug a pot, use confidence heal and us a bandage, at point C i jump into the sparklies down a level to point D. were the fire ball goes off and kills me. now clearly point A is where the dragon was behind close doors and plus i was down at point D a whole different level. again im wearing 70 FR, 115 magic resist 95 STR. My friend was like no way how u die?? the GD is in the room still... and how is this fair again???

PS this is only 2 situations of many times this stuff has happened with a tamer.

i made really cool maps of how i died and no one commented!!

 

[Sheridan]

i made really cool maps of how i died and no one commented!!

Perhaps that's because of their context... You dressed those issues in tamer-specific clothing and that's simply not the case. The problems you detailed are casting and gameplay issues not necessarily restricted to greater dragons alone. The greater dragon might be an agent making the issue more apparent, but is not the issue itself. The problem lies with line of sight casting for all AI, not the one creature you've labeled as a nerfable evil.

 

[Freelsy]

I never get into these board PvP arguments, but for this enigma guy to sit and bash siege all day long is quite annoying. I would like to let the Ultima Online community in on a little info, we siege players risk ALOT when going out to do whatever we do. Whether it be a little pvp, pvm, or simply gather resources. Let me explain. When i suit up to pvp i always equip my best weapon (my 1 blessable item)

Heart of Lion - siege 500k - thats 4mills equivalent on prodo
Fey Leggings (human) - another 400-500k - 3.2 to 4mills prodo
Spirit of Totem (cursed of course) - another 300-500k - 2.4 to 4mills
Crmison cinture (cant be blessed) - 500-700k now? - 4 to 5 mills
Totem of Void - easy 500k now - 4mills
my ring and brace which both must have at least 13 hci/dci and 20 EP on them, never get sold back to me so i dont know price i would say 200k though, which equates to 1.6 mills
then i have my arms and gloves and gorget, fitted for lower mana, mana regen and enough resists to cap out or come close to maxing my resists....

Now dont get me wrong not everone on siege equips like this but ALOT of us do, i can name an easy 25 right off the top of my head, both in guild and opposing guilds. Right there i've just risked approx 3mill siege style and nearly hitting 24mills prodo style for ONE night of pvp fun, not including doing any pvm activity which can be raided at any time or spawn...which is pretty much raided every single time .

Next think about the new player that just started 5 days ago, going into despise to train up his swords skills, he has just aquired an awesome new +13 hci jewl to help him kill those nasty ettins. her comes a red ready to kill that new guy. Now this new guy has no trammel to stay safe from these aggressors, nor does he have the ability to recall outta there (non of that on siege). This young player has just risked EVERYTHING he owns on Siege to build his character.

Before you sit there and belittle the siege players like you do, and have previously done, experience Siege first. We have by far the best community on Ultima. Yes some of the players dont risk there best items, thats because there HARD to get, and some are usefull in other aspects of the game (PvM), we cant just sit there bank spamming (BUYING SWEET ****) everytime we die, 1. we'll get thievs all around us 2. no one bank sits on Siege.

In closing, i ask that you experience Siege before you make alot of these crazy accusations. This post is not ment to attack or offend anyone, just to let people know that Siege is not a bunch of whinney a$$ waffles as some call us. And to let you know Engima, Siege does have the finest PvP'ers in the UO realm, if you dont believe me...Siege's ROT rule is getting a fix, come and create a character and find out for yourself.



Sincerely,
Astynax/Tek

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

I never get into these board PvP arguments, but for this enigma guy to sit and bash siege all day long is quite annoying. I would like to let the Ultima Online community in on a little info, we siege players risk ALOT when going out to do whatever we do. Whether it be a little pvp, pvm, or simply gather resources. Let me explain. When i suit up to pvp i always equip my best weapon (my 1 blessable item)

Heart of Lion - siege 500k - thats 4mills equivalent on prodo
Fey Leggings (human) - another 400-500k - 3.2 to 4mills prodo
Spirit of Totem (cursed of course) - another 300-500k - 2.4 to 4mills
Crmison cinture (cant be blessed) - 500-700k now? - 4 to 5 mills
Totem of Void - easy 500k now - 4mills
my ring and brace which both must have at least 13 hci/dci and 20 EP on them, never get sold back to me so i dont know price i would say 200k though, which equates to 1.6 mills
then i have my arms and gloves and gorget, fitted for lower mana, mana regen and enough resists to cap out or come close to maxing my resists....

Now dont get me wrong not everone on siege equips like this but ALOT of us do, i can name an easy 25 right off the top of my head, both in guild and opposing guilds. Right there i've just risked approx 3mill siege style and nearly hitting 24mills prodo style for ONE night of pvp fun, not including doing any pvm activity which can be raided at any time or spawn...which is pretty much raided every single time .

Next think about the new player that just started 5 days ago, going into despise to train up his swords skills, he has just aquired an awesome new +13 hci jewl to help him kill those nasty ettins. her comes a red ready to kill that new guy. Now this new guy has no trammel to stay safe from these aggressors, nor does he have the ability to recall outta there (non of that on siege). This young player has just risked EVERYTHING he owns on Siege to build his character.

Before you sit there and belittle the siege players like you do, and have previously done, experience Siege first. We have by far the best community on Ultima. Yes some of the players dont risk there best items, thats because there HARD to get, and some are usefull in other aspects of the game (PvM), we cant just sit there bank spamming (BUYING SWEET ****) everytime we die, 1. we'll get thievs all around us 2. no one bank sits on Siege.

In closing, i ask that you experience Siege before you make alot of these crazy accusations. This post is not ment to attack or offend anyone, just to let people know that Siege is not a bunch of whinney a$$ waffles as some call us. And to let you know Engima, Siege does have the finest PvP'ers in the UO realm, if you dont believe me...Siege's ROT rule is getting a fix, come and create a character and find out for yourself.



Sincerely,
Astynax/Tek

Enigma does seem like a complete tool but he does bring up a few good points.

Wtf are you playing on big bad Siege for if you give a crap about losing your gear?

Are you risking it or not?

 

[MadTexan]

Just got hit with 129 damage fireball against a 62 fire resist suit.

Not possible unless you are holding a reverse slayer weapon or EOO to something else. As I said before, the cap on fire breath is 200HP against zero fire resist, and as I said before, the GD doesn't have enough Hp to hit the cap if it is tame.

 

[Wakiza]

Simple fix for super pets, keep them in trammel.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Skwiz]

Get a clue, YOU DIDN'T the first time I told you, you were wrong, then it was proven by others you were.

The Fire BREATH DOES NOT HAVE A MOVING ANIMATION. IT IS LOCAL TO THE Greater Dragon. IT DOES NOT leave the GD and follow or seek out anyone.

You simply got hit with a Magical Attack. You can't deal with it. You must blame something. YOU can not even KNOW who / what that Magical Attack came from. YOU can not even KNOWINGLY state the damage was done by the Magical Attack. THERE may have been other RANGED Attacks included. Sounds more like a VASTLY OVER POWERED Stealthy Archer nearly killed you than any wimpy Greater Dragon.

just fyi im betting you are either

1. A tamer and afraid your GD will get nerfed so you can cry your brains out

2. Dont play this game.

Also on fireballs... your right.. they arnt casted 5 screens off.. The problem is.. They are casted while you are in range of the dragon.. It is delayed.. You are running from the dragon and basically the end of its casting range when it fireballs.. YOU DONT STOP running to get away from the dragon while it fireballs.. The dragon continues to cast its fireball after you've broken its range because when it started you were in its casting radius.. The fireball flys through the air.. hitting you 7 Tiles out of its casting range and off screen...

Please get a clue sweetie.. Seige isnt your prodo bull****.. Not all of our players run Completely insane suits... Only good pvpers ( Like cash and myself ) Run prodo suits (While losing them might i add, usually to a dragon)

On my unfinished dexxer.. i regularly run 65 Fire resist and 55+ Phys.. (This is siege.. maxing resists isnt a huge deal *Unless fighting a dragon ironically*)
With these resists... the dragon can easily bite for 40+ (Bleed) and fireball for 65+ With spells inculded..

Lemme say this one more time.. THIS SIEGE.. Ontop of not maxing resists on unfinished chars.. we dont regularlly run 150+ HP so.. the damage mentioned above ( 127 *Bleed 22* < Hopefully you know this ) Is more than enough to kill my dexxer.. Actually.. its more than enough to kill my mage.. which maxes out at 126 HP with Str Pots, Petals of Trins, and Bless. (FYI my mage is my "Good" Suit character)

Finally, lemme just throw this out there because im sure i havent mentioned it before... THIS IS ****ING SIEGE.. Every post about GDs being overpowered is from a siege player, Every example you give about them NOT being overpowered is a prodo example.. Theres a difference.. Hopefully you realize that.

But.. im guessing you will either not reply to this or repeat yourself with some nonsense about tamers being nerfed to oblivion and being completely useless as a pvper ON A PRODO SHARD.

That is all.

 

[archite666]

just fyi im betting you are either

1. A tamer and afraid your GD will get nerfed so you can cry your brains out

2. Dont play this game.

Also on fireballs... your right.. they arnt casted 5 screens off.. The problem is.. They are casted while you are in range of the dragon.. It is delayed.. You are running from the dragon and basically the end of its casting range when it fireballs.. YOU DONT STOP running to get away from the dragon while it fireballs.. The dragon continues to cast its fireball after you've broken its range because when it started you were in its casting radius.. The fireball flys through the air.. hitting you 7 Tiles out of its casting range and off screen...

Please get a clue sweetie.. Seige isnt your prodo bull****.. Not all of our players run Completely insane suits... Only good pvpers ( Like cash and myself ) Run prodo suits (While losing them might i add, usually to a dragon)

On my unfinished dexxer.. i regularly run 65 Fire resist and 55+ Phys.. (This is siege.. maxing resists isnt a huge deal *Unless fighting a dragon ironically*)
With these resists... the dragon can easily bite for 40+ (Bleed) and fireball for 65+ With spells inculded..

Lemme say this one more time.. THIS SIEGE.. Ontop of not maxing resists on unfinished chars.. we dont regularlly run 150+ HP so.. the damage mentioned above ( 127 *Bleed 22* < Hopefully you know this ) Is more than enough to kill my dexxer.. Actually.. its more than enough to kill my mage.. which maxes out at 126 HP with Str Pots, Petals of Trins, and Bless. (FYI my mage is my "Good" Suit character)

Finally, lemme just throw this out there because im sure i havent mentioned it before... THIS IS ****ING SIEGE.. Every post about GDs being overpowered is from a siege player, Every example you give about them NOT being overpowered is a prodo example.. Theres a difference.. Hopefully you realize that.

But.. im guessing you will either not reply to this or repeat yourself with some nonsense about tamers being nerfed to oblivion and being completely useless as a pvper ON A PRODO SHARD.

That is all.

*claps* gotta give it up he named droped me, hell yeah!

But seriously, the dragons firebreath is outragous, if IT IS delayed then its delayed by alot, I have ran literally half way across luna and then hit for 60, it maxes out at 60 dmg at 70 Fire resist no slayer BS no evil omen none of that.

I get hit for 55-60 all day long, thats what the pvp dragons do.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

just fyi im betting you are either

1. A tamer and afraid your GD will get nerfed so you can cry your brains out

2. Dont play this game.

... A bunch of Day Care Psycho Babble rehtoric designed to impress his/her peers at what a BADA$$ they think, they are ...

You lose it is neither.

I have and always will play the hand I am dealt. I don't go crying to Mommy/Daddy for A Redo Hand, that was pretend, that was practice, that was what ever lame excuse comes to mind to ... what ever.

I play the hand I am dealt, IF EA/M chooses to nerf Greater Dragons, I simply adapt. I learn how to achieve my goals and I succeed.

That is what I DO.

This is what YOU DO.

.... Self Edited ....

(You is not referring to a specific individual, it is referring to a Gestalt. If ones reply is TO AN INDIVIDUAL then one is gonna lose. If ones reply is TO THE VIEWERS then one is gonna win. I do not reply to the person, I reply to the viewers)

You don't, you want some one to make it all better for you, to HAND/GUARANTEE YOU THE WIN.

Siege Perilous WAS supposed to be the set aside for those that wanted a REAL challenge vs a GUARANTEED WIN CHALLENGE.


THAT SP is long gone and is now clearly populated, at least in part, by "Mommy/Daddy I got eat by a Dragon, make that Bad Dragon go away"

This Siege Perilous has NO POINT in UO, bleeding (AKA WASTING) MY UO TAX DOLLARS. (AKA Does NOT have my support in any sense of the word)

 

[Ailish]

On my unfinished dexxer.. i regularly run 65 Fire resist and 55+ Phys.. (This is siege.. maxing resists isnt a huge deal *Unless fighting a dragon ironically*)
With these resists... the dragon can easily bite for 40+ (Bleed) and fireball for 65+ With spells inculded..

*claps* gotta give it up he named droped me, hell yeah!

But seriously, the dragons firebreath is outragous, if IT IS delayed then its delayed by alot, I have ran literally half way across luna and then hit for 60, it maxes out at 60 dmg at 70 Fire resist no slayer BS no evil omen none of that.

I get hit for 55-60 all day long, thats what the pvp dragons do.

Thank you two for giving, real, non-exagerated numbers for this thread, and elaborating why this is an honest issue on Siege.

While I don't believe GD's are particularly overpowered on a Prodo shard, Enigma is seriously annoying even me with his fanatacism.

 

[Shanna]

Ugh, this thread is back from the grave.

I keep seeing SIEGE SIEGE SIEGE. Maybe Siege is the problem. If you're going to make your argument on a DYING shard, go to that board because Siege is so challeneging and different from regular shards rolleyes:. On our shards, it takes a little tactics and you can live through a dragon attack. I've done it. I've done it more times than I can count and I'm new to pvp (only a couple of months).
Heck, yesterday, my hubby attacked a greater dragon just to lure it off so a mate could kill the tamer. They did it because killing tamers are the easy kills. That was easy Justice gained for the mate.
In fact, everytime there's a tamer on the field, we are killing it most often. I even use my tamer to kill an opposing tamer (especially easy because they are using a greater dragon and I'm using a dread mare, I can mounted and they cannot). TAMERS ARE AN EASY KILL!
But I'm completely opposed to nerfing Greater Dragons. Not only because of their usefulness in pvm but also, using a greater dragon on the field (********) is a challenege in its own. You're on foot, you have a slow animal, and a target for most because someone might have to run a little if you put your pet on them. So a damage output needs to be up to make up for all the negatives.

 

[Draxous]

Enigma does seem like a complete tool but he does bring up a few good points.

Wtf are you playing on big bad Siege for if you give a crap about losing your gear?

Are you risking it or not?

Because unlike on every other shard... Risk versus Reward needs to actually make sense for Siege players to enjoy their time in game... like that isn't the case for every shard across the board.

What you people don't get is that the broken systems and imbalances in this game surface on Siege first because we are not hiding behind item insurance and the types of gear you all are. It is UO at it's rawest and it should be treated with care because a health siege makes for a damn healthy rest-of-UO.

 

[Skwiz]

Ugh, this thread is back from the grave.

I keep seeing SIEGE SIEGE SIEGE. Maybe Siege is the problem. If you're going to make your argument on a DYING shard, go to that board because Siege is so challeneging and different from regular shards rolleyes:. On our shards, it takes a little tactics and you can live through a dragon attack. I've done it. I've done it more times than I can count and I'm new to pvp (only a couple of months).
Heck, yesterday, my hubby attacked a greater dragon just to lure it off so a mate could kill the tamer. They did it because killing tamers are the easy kills. That was easy Justice gained for the mate.
In fact, everytime there's a tamer on the field, we are killing it most often. I even use my tamer to kill an opposing tamer (especially easy because they are using a greater dragon and I'm using a dread mare, I can mounted and they cannot). TAMERS ARE AN EASY KILL!
But I'm completely opposed to nerfing Greater Dragons. Not only because of their usefulness in pvm but also, using a greater dragon on the field (********) is a challenege in its own. You're on foot, you have a slow animal, and a target for most because someone might have to run a little if you put your pet on them. So a damage output needs to be up to make up for all the negatives.

The negatives mean nothing combined with the skill ninjitsu hide and stealth.. Now many of you will say that thoes skills are the problem and not the greater dragons and maybe that really is the issue, but i can asure you a tamer with a Bake / Beetle combo in Ninja form is Much less threating than one with a greater dragon mainly due to their insane bite (Bleed) and random fireballs that hit anywhere from 60-80 (Yes is it possible for the tamer to be running with someone else that can corpseskin / curse, has hard as it is to believe )

The GD Combined with these skills makes the tempalte vastly overpowered.. A good example is a player named Vitamin D, he runs around in Bloodwood armor (Hp Regen and nice resist) with a Ninja (Wolf form *20HP mount speed)
stealth hide template, With his dragon around it is Impossible to kill him due to stealth and for thoes of you who say "Well theres a million ways to fight stealthers" I use Meteor swarm, chain lightning, conflag pots, poison/para fields, Human tracking on Monsters,Animal, Humans, Earthquake, and we even have a person with 100 Detect Hidden, but hes still nearly impossible to kill because of his 1000HP meat shield. If we try to single him out the dragon kills us. If we try to kill the dragon, We need a dragon to due so. No player template aside from a Chiv template can hope to kill a dragon.. and even the the chiv tem needs the assistance of crosshealing mages to due so. So now we've got 5 People trying to kill the dragon while the tamers just walks off in stealth and relogs his pet, heals it up and comes back.

Now you say its ******** for a tamer to run a GD on the field for pvp, just make a char on siege.. dont even train it. make one just to look at some pvp, Every tamer on siege runs a Dragon.. They are the strongest Versus both players and pets.. hands down.. They are slow.. but being slow means nothing when they have Dot(bleed, If they've bled you they've bitten you 40) Spells.. and a fireball that usually hits out of their casting range due to it being a delayed affect.

Something else you fail to realize in your "Slow" comment is.. The pvpers Stay around the dragon.. They dont just stupidly follow me around while i try to lead them away from the tamer. They hug the tamer like there is no tomorrow because without that dragon they fall appart. With multiple players hugging the dragon means multiple templates.. Must likely ALWAYS a dismounter is present. Now lots of people will say.. Well its the dismount that kills you not the dragon!! Well how about this.. " Im dismounted and theres no dragon.. I can most *Always* get away because my mage has

1. Ninjitsu For both Animal form and smoke bomb (Smoke helps a lot aginst the dragon honestly)
2. Is a mage and can therefore cast Wall of Stone to break line of sight on idiotic players, Invis, and my favorite spell... teleport.

Now this time i get dismounted with the dragon.. It goes one of two ways..

.1 Im quick enough to hit smoke bomb before im bleeding and luckly get away with NO chance of fighting the guild i was fighting...

2. I get dismounted, the dragon Hops across screen due to that "All Kill Teleporting thing" It bites and Bleeds (40 From bite alone) I now have no chance of getting a teleport, invis, wall of stone off.. My animal form is on the Dismounted timer and i know damn well a fireball is comming because im On foot and cant move out of its casting range very quickly.

Another way to die to tamers.. There is a player named Shakaja, He runs a Ninja Healing Archer tamer with a dragon. Maybe its the other skills that make his template hard to fight.. But he uses the new "Guard me" Attack thing which makes the dragon attack whoever its master attacks without the use of Saying "All Kill" Therefore when he Flags you and hits you with a dismount (About 43 Damage if his Bow Spell procs) The dragon will at the same time jump on you and hit you.. Ive had my HP go from 100% To 0% Instantly because of this.. Its happened one time.. so yes, its not a regular thing. Though no other template can do this. The only other template that can match this kind of damage output is a Necro Scribe mage, Which Corpseskins.. Explo FS Omen ( If your fast you can get the same Omen on Both Exp FS for you newbies that dont know this ) But! Hey.. One weaken and this combo is completely fail.. Or hell hit him with a weapon.. Fail.

 

[Skwiz]

oops i accidently bumped this, My bad

 

[Wenchkin]

You might want to remove the names of players from your post if you want to draw attention to it then If only to avoid giving them credit they probably don't deserve...

I think it's safe to say that EA have heard the complaints about greaters till they've got it coming out the wazoo, but if you want the problem solved in a specific way maybe it'll be more productive to help working out a suitable solution. Rather than listing all the ways you've died to a greater. Because you know it's just asking for someone to say "why didn't you do this or that" and the discussion gets completely bogged down. As it already has with the earlier mud-slinging... Not saying that's going to get Siege a fix sooner, but I get the impression from the devs that they realise there is a problem and want to find the solution. So what realistic fixes do you propose? By realistic I mean those which don't involve deleting taming as a skill

Wenchy

 

[Skwiz]

Cap firebreath at 35 with no basis on resist.

End their casting range at 7 tiles. Make none of their spells delayed except explosion like it should be.

Lower their hp by just a little.

Make it so if they bite you and miss it longer still applys bleed, therefore they have to Land a hit inorder to bleed.

On siege perilous make monsters with a certain or higher barding difficulty impossible to bond.. Aka Super Dragons/Dogs/Beetles.. while still allowing crafters to bond their Beetles/Packs and regular players to bond mounts.

^ If not this.. Give pets a small timer of res sickness upon death so a tamer cant just instant res their pet and jump back into the fight.

Either change it so Disco is a 100% Chance on Greater Dragons, or make dragons as uncontrolable as disco fails ( Ive seen 120/120 Music Peace fail on a dragon 5+ Times where the tamer at 120/120 has a 100% Control rate over it. ) What i mean by this is.. 100% Disco at 120/120 or 50% Control rate at 120/120.

Change the pet command of "All Guard me" so i pet will not attack a player if the master goes into war and flags.. This is becomming a huge problem on siege if not all shards.. Stealth tamers are having their pets guard them and flagging *While in stealth* the dragon will attack whoever the master flagged without the master revealing. Also dismount archers are using this to instantly make the pet attack said player upon dismount.

Possibly lower the max Wrestling of the dragon to something more reasonable. Its going to bite at 40+ So with 120+ Wrestling its not an often miss on siege perilous for our players that dont max out Dci.

These are all ideas id like to see on siege only.. Considering Dragons arnt a problem on regular shards.. right?

 

[Cacio]

Yesterday my Super Dragon died.Because they
used a bard on him and a paladin killed it.
So you see pets have because of bards their weaknesess.

 

[Skwiz]

Yes because we of siege (Pvpers) Love running bards designed to fight one template (A tamer) Where a tamer template can fight ( And succeed ) Aginst all templates... Good arguement.

Something everyone seems to fail to realize is.. We of siege are limited to 1 Character per account.. And i'll be damned if my 1 char is a ****ing pvm bard..

 

[Ailish]

Yes because we of siege (Pvpers) Love running bards designed to fight one template (A tamer) Where a tamer template can fight ( And succeed ) Aginst all templates... Good arguement.

Something everyone seems to fail to realize is.. We of siege are limited to 1 Character per account.. And i'll be damned if my 1 char is a ****ing pvm bard..

Skwiz, this is exactly why I said you guys need to make a new thread titled GD's on SIEGE and then put your nicely worded suggestions there. BTW, your suggestions don't sound too bad for Siege, tho I still think 35 is too low for a GD against no resist. 50 against 0 fire resist would be more reasonable ...

 

[kelmo]

Bless you all... Now play nice.

 

[Spree]

I took out my old theif on Atlantic no wonder why they think tamers are no problem. All some one has to do is walk near you and you pop out of scardy cat mode [stealth]

 

[Krystal]

I took out my old theif on Atlantic no wonder why they think tamers are no problem. All some one has to do is walk near you and you pop out of scardy cat mode [stealth]

SP SHOULD HAVE THIS ABILITY!!!

 

[UncleSham]

one thing enigma pointed out that i agree with is that this firebreath MIGHT happen ... it might not . in fact usually does not happen . its far from reliable.

its just that on the rare occasion when it DOES happen it usually happens in concert with annother spell or attack and then yes your average pvper will fall ... then most likely he will come here and complain about how unfair it all is .

you want to nerf that attack then let me have it reiably and at a time of my chosing (like your weapon special) then i see no problem dropping it down to your 35 cap.

would that be fair ?

 

[o2bavr6]

you want to nerf that attack then let me have it reiably and at a time of my chosing (like your weapon special) then i see no problem dropping it down to your 35 cap.

would that be fair ?

As far as I am concerned they could make GD's firebreath every time for 50DI, as long as it was not more than that, and as long as it was not in concert with another spell.

They would also need to make it to where in PvP the GD would have to adhere to the spellcasting distance limits that players have.

 

[archite666]

Yesterday my Super Dragon died.Because they
used a bard on him and a paladin killed it.
So you see pets have because of bards their weaknesess.

If you ran away and left your super dragon, why didnt you log it?

If you run the template that people on siege do its quite easy.

Stay close to your tamer in animal form so you can run, all kill people, if you get over run with too many ppl, run away, smoke bomb walk a few steps so no one can find you based on your relative location and then log in and log back out, heal your dragon, even with our disco peacer its a cold day in hell that we can kill a dragon even with a dragon of our own, it takes like 15 seconds with the entire guild on it and someone can easily hide and log out in that time.

 

[Cacio]

Archite666 my Tamer isnt steatlh ninja tamer to use smokebombs.
With my tamer i killed 4500 pks.And im sure this tamer is the onlyone on my shard with 120 magic resi.Im doing it on other way like oyu on sieg.
Ando yu cant with your tamer template to crak a felucca pk house.
Im in front of pk house and with magic alot posioning my oponent and archery him plus Dragon.A stealth nijustu ninja tamer cant do it.Ok ninustu i have inside but not hide and stealth.

If someon discord your dragon and a paladin with dragonslyer and consent waepon hit him the super dragon is fast down.

 

[Yalp]

. Let me explain. When i suit up to pvp i always equip my best weapon (my 1 blessable item)

Heart of Lion - siege 500k - thats 4mills equivalent on prodo
Fey Leggings (human) - another 400-500k - 3.2 to 4mills prodo
Spirit of Totem (cursed of course) - another 300-500k - 2.4 to 4mills
Crmison cinture (cant be blessed) - 500-700k now? - 4 to 5 mills
Totem of Void - easy 500k now - 4mills
my ring and brace which both must have at least 13 hci/dci and 20 EP on them, never get sold back to me so i dont know price i would say 200k though, which equates to 1.6 mills
then i have my arms and gloves and gorget, fitted for lower mana, mana regen and enough resists to cap out or come close to maxing my resists....

Not saying this applies to YOU specifically, I see no mention of any additional, shall we say... supplemental ... umm... software... ummm designed to enhance the individual gameplay experience... think that also counts as some of the "gear" equipped for pvp.. regardless of which shard one plays.

There are several things needed to be done to correct GD's.. capping the damage output isn't one of them....

The lack of people coming to this particular thread to argue the point is not reflective of people agreeing that greaters should be nerfed.. don't conflate the 2.

 

[Yalp]

If you run the template that people on siege do its quite easy.

Maybe the heart of the issue is with the template.. and not the pet?

More often posters are more upset the tamer goes into stealth mode and moves off.. how does nerfing the greater affect that? It doesn't change that.. but it will affect every tamer/greater in the game pvm and pvp.. every shard...

cause let's all be real.. the dev's can't find the way out of a paperbag when it comes to fixing things.. you can count on a game wide cluster if they tried.