The "Stygian Abyss Client" input thread.

[Beefybone]

This is going here instead of the KR forum for two reasons.

1) More people read this forum, and we want a wider sampling of opinions than just the people who are already using KR.

2) It's not technically KR. If the developers see fit to call this a whole new client instead of just an upgrade, then so be it.

Also, I'm going to suggest a couple of rules to help keep this thread productive.

1) This thread is primarily about user interface and functionality. Feel free to point out specific bugs or glitches to be addressed, but don't bother with pointless "make it run better" comments.

2) Don't bother with suggestions for content regarding the SA expansion. That should be a separate topic entirely. We're talking about the client, not the expansion.

All right, with that out of the way, I'll offer my first bit of input:

It is imperative that the chat system in the SA client be at least as powerful and useful as that of 2D. While the existing KR chat system looks more modern, it is in fact substantially less useful. I'll offer specifics.

* All text which is viewable to anyone within range of your character belongs overhead by default. This consists of speech, emotes, yells, and whispers.

* Forms of text which disregard the distance between players should appear down below in the chat window by default. This consists of party chat, guild chat, alliance chat, tells, and faction messages.

* Users should be able to select their own personal colors for their overhead text, and have those colors appear to other players. This is often important in quickly distinguishing who is talking among a group of several people.

* Users should be able to select from multiple fonts. Unlike the previous point regarding color, font settings should be universal to the user. If I choose Font X, all the text I see should use Font X, even if everyone I'm talking to prefers Font Y.

* The duration of overhead text should scale based upon it's length by default. There's no need for a simple "lol" to remain up for as long as someone's full sentence.

* Overhead text should be interactive. A piece of text should fall into the background when newer text appears in front of it, and return to the foreground when it's highlighted with the mouse and/or any text in front of it vanishes. A user should be able to click on a piece of text in order to see the paperdoll of the speaker.

So far all I've really done is describe chat as it now exists in 2D. The Stygian Abyss client must do all of these things as well as (or better than) the 2D client before worrying about more advanced features. These bases need to be covered.

Additionally, here are some observations relevant to the existing KR client.

* The dark background surrounding the chat window should not spring into visibility every time the mouse pointer passes over it on it's way toward the hotbar. This is simply annoying. Require a right-click or some such.

* Tells are a difficult subject given UO's lack of unique naming. By default, players should be identified by their name and a tag. Initially this tag should consist of their internal serial number. However, a user should be able to access their friends list and change this tag to a personal note.

For example, when you first add Billybob to your friends list, he would appear as "Billybob (1123718)". However, you could then change his entry to "Billybob (blue hat)" to remind you who he is. Tells from this player would then appear as being from "Billybob (blue hat)" in your chat window.

Anyway, that's all I'll post from now. I look forward to more from others, just keep it constructive.

 

[Halister Marner]

A few things that I think the new client needs to address:

1. The clunky movement and character animations. Our characters look too similar to the old 3D client, the contrast to the higher resolution/more polished 2D models they use for monsters and how our characters look is huge.

2. Responsiveness, speed, and fluidity. A must for PvP'ers to adapt the client, the client needs to be reliable with targeting and actions, as well as allow for "twitch" movement, while moving as seamlessly as 2D does (on a decent spec'd machine of course).

3. Graphical Clarity. There is too much blurring still, even when I use the higher resolution options, clearing this up and adding some "shine" to things instead of the dull look it has currently would go a long way.

I haven't used the KR client extensively to give greater input, but those are the 3 main things that have been keeping me from using it more.

 

[Basara]

Here's one thing I'd really like to see, that will make a number of people happy.

Have multiple pre-made skin/mods as part of the SA client - one of which would look and function very similar to the 2D client, right out of the box. Using it would automatically function with the legacy chat & keys turned on, the chat window looking and acting like the Journal, etc. Packs would be freeform, unless toggled otherwise. The SA "legacy skin" map would look and function similar to UOAM. And, so on.

Another suggestion would be to redo KR Keybindings. The 1-0, - = default bar keybindings SHOULD have been F1-F12. THEN let someone use the enter-to-talk to set up the other keys, should they wish (I'm still confused as to why anyone needs over about 12-18 macros set to keys, anyway - I know WHY people do it, I just don't understand the need to automate actions in the game to the point of turning it into a touch-typing simulator).

Another idea: allow users to set up free-standing hot button grids to move icons, instead of having to build them playing with hot bars. This would allow players to more accurately reconstruct the grids of buttons they use in 2D - PLUS assign keys to buttons as they see fit. I'd rather be able to tell the program "place a 4 wide by 8 tall" grid, than try to create & stack 8 4-long bars to emulate one.

 

[Kojak]

the whole backpack system not sucking complete ass ...

 

[Beefybone]

Sucking ass how?

Personally, I like the grid view. Trying to figure out which runebook my ring went under last time I died is for the birds.

 

[Doomsday Dragon]

Sucking ass how?

Personally, I like the grid view. Trying to figure out which runebook my ring went under last time I died is for the birds.

This is true except the grid becoming rearranged for no reason is irritating and the more items you carry the harder it becomes to use the grid and list views.

I think grid and list views should remain an option but the classic pack is where I actually had issues.

When you set your pack to function like the 2D pack you cannot place an object with any accuracy because items become larger when you grab them instead of remaining the same size you see them in the pack. So you cannot set items down in your pack exactly where you want them to go. This needs fixed for the SA client seriously it feels and looks sloppy in KR.

 

[Beefybone]

Those are good points. I hope someone takes notes.

 

[Elric_Soban]

a whole new client? wtf

KR is perfectly good it just needs ATTENTION, we dont need a whole new client! AAARRGGGGGGGGGGGGG

Prediction - this "SA" client will go the same route as 3d/KR... they'l get it half done and abandon it.

 

[Doomsday Dragon]

a whole new client? wtf

KR is perfectly good it just needs ATTENTION, we dont need a whole new client! AAARRGGGGGGGGGGGGG

Prediction - this "SA" client will go the same route as 3d/KR... they'l get it half done and abandon it.

I think your wrong. I predict we will get a client that is relatively bug free and in a playable condition at it's release vs an experiment like KR or a quickly tossed together cheaply made POS like 3D. Seriously the 3D client was terrible even if it was nice to use for some people it was an extremely cheap client tossed together as fast as possible.

 

[Sheridan]

Great idea, Beefybone... *licks it and sticks it*

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

The absolute BIGGEST #1 priority issue that the devs need to keep in mind, stick to and NOT waver from is this:

DO NOT RELEASE THE CLIENT WHEN YOU STILL HAVE MONTHS' TO YEARS' WORTH OF WORK TO DO ON IT

That mistake HAMMERED the reception of both 3d and KR in a BAD way.

In the end, 3d was a very nice client (yeah the player character models weren't great, but it was lag free, had a lot of good UI enhancements over 2d, and was VERY playable), but it started out a complete bear of a client because it was rushed out the door LONG before it was ready.

While I LOVE the KR client, it too was "officially released" while it was still in an early beta state. Patchurdays were fun when they were weekly, but that should NEVER have been necessary in a released product. Even now I can show you portions of the actual game that are not even in the KR client AT ALL (chocolatiering and the Controller towers in Ilshenar outside Exodus dungeon (they still have the "send in a bug report" message even!))

Get the KR/SA revamp COMPLETE, then release to the closed and open beta to allow the players to catch and report all the loose ends THEN ship it to stores in the shiny new box.

PLEASE DEVS... NOT BEFORE IT IS DONE!

 

[Beefybone]

a whole new client? wtf

KR is perfectly good it just needs ATTENTION, we dont need a whole new client! AAARRGGGGGGGGGGGGG

Prediction - this "SA" client will go the same route as 3d/KR... they'l get it half done and abandon it.

Psst... It's not like they're throwing KR out. SA is a rebuild of KR, presumably using the same art and resources. If it makes you happier to call it KR 2.0, then go ahead.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Ok, a few bullet point suggestions for the KR/SA client:

• Make Mobile Health Bars and Hotbars dockable as health bars and icons were in the 3d client
• Make other display portions of the UI Anchor in place via toggle
• Graphically expandible containers (like the 3d client)
• DO NOT change the terrain textures, PLEASE or at least if you do, keep INCREASING their quality, please do not go backwards here
• Improve Circle of Transparency
• Fix the issue of stacked items in backpacks and characters' banks from combining on hotbars and bugging up useage of them
• Retain moddability
• Include the original UO font

 

[Zym Dragon]

To reiterate what was said above, please do not launch this new client until it's truly ready! An unfinished client will never successfully sell a game, box or not. I know many old time players who were willing to give UO a try if the KR client was "done." Unfortunately it was never finished, so they are still waiting.

Here are a few thoughts for the new client:
General

• Give us the ability to scale the size of each UI element separately
• Allow us to move UI elements outside of the game window.
• Another plug for dockable UI Items
• Add UOA and UO Automap abilities currenty not implemented.
• Hotbars should be resizeable as 3x4, 2x2, 2x6, etc.

Modding

• Retain modability
• Give us access to all of the lua and xml files (unless they can cause problems being released). I'm mostly referring to the missing lua files in the Source\Generic directory.
• I'd like to have the ability to mod the login screen gumps (I miss the chest).
• Give modders the ability to preview gumps w/o having to load up KR (if possible) or have some sort of "modding mode" where we won't time out while tweaking the UI.
• Create an official "Inside UO" utility that lets us view and save graphics/animations. The reason I believe it should be an official utility is the Dev Team could set it up to keep surprises from us, while still allowing us to view the new art afterwards.

 

[Cogniac]

• If UI component docking gets put in, make it so you can undock, as well. When they put the docking functionality into 2d for healthbars, it came with infuriating side effects. You'll right-click one of the health bars to close it, and half of the components on the screen will disappear because they were docked to that health bar. Also, once two health bars are docked, you have to hold down Alt, drag them, then drag them again to undock the bar you want. And that doesn't even seem to work properly every single time.
• The auto-pathfinding in KR is very useful, but it should either
  • a.) not have you pathfinding around entire damn buildings or
  • b.) be togglable.
• Two-dimensional hotbars. Instead of making a 4x4 grid out of 4 hotbars of length 4, drag diagonally and make just one hotbar that's 4x4.
• Freeform backpacks. Enough said.
• I'm sure I'll think of more, so: dot dot dot...

 

[lucitus]

I think this UI things are not so important. Docking ok, maybe usefull and 5x5 Hotbars ok, but the Hotbars are fine.

Better for the client is to get it crashfree and get it more deeper more detail and sharper textures. The terrain Texture is very nice, but for example statues in houses are not sharp enough and not at good size.

Also fix broken Animations for example the Crook, Testubo or Hammerpick Animations is bugged. And get in more detailed Models for Firesteed or Factionhorses, Dragons, Drakes etc. like the Solen ones are very nice.

 

[Thrand Graywolf]

They need to copy the 2D client, interface and all, as just about exactly as they possibly can.

The graphics should be higher res, sure, but substantially the same. Everything needs to have the same scale, the same viewing angle, roughly the same colors. The UI needs to be exactly the same, with graphical gumps, the same style chat, etc.

Then, and only then, should they worry about adding options to make the UI more customizable to other styles that might appeal better to people coming from other games.

Until they nail a client that the vast majority of current subscribers will swap to, they've basically failed. The only way to do that is to give people what they already have, only better.

Their two biggest failures with KR were the UI and the graphics. The UI, to someone used to the 2D client, is horrible. And the graphics are so fuzzy you get a headache trying to figure out what some things are. People logged in, took one look at the freaky interface and the fuzzy graphics, and logged right back out never to try it again.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

No offense Thrand, but I would HATE to see the 2d landscape textures in KR. The ONLY 2d artwork I think that should have been used from day 1 is the art for (non-plant) items (especially armor and weapons as many of those have changed significantly enough that it takes a while to mentally match what the items are).

However, the plants and landscape in KR are SOOOOOO much better in KR than in 2d. The plants in 2d look so scrawny next to the lushness of the same plant in KR.

So in that regard, I would HATE to see the artwork go backwards. UI? Well, you should see what Zym has been up to.

 

[JC the Builder]

Fix the performance issues. I just tried to run Kingdom Reborn and my system slowed to a crawl, especially when I tried to access other programs.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

What are your specs? I was in KR yesterday through the Town Hall with Firefox open and the audio streaming through WinAmp (and this is on top of the usual always running programs).

And no, I don't have quite the insane computer specs as it seems as the newest piece of hardware on my machine is now over a year old and my mobo, chip and RAM nearing 2 years old.

Just curious.

 

[JC the Builder]

Core 2 Duo 2.83 GHz processor
3.25GB Ram
GeForce 8600 GT

Maybe I am over-speced?

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Have you downloaded and run a dual core optimizer?

 

[JC the Builder]

I didn't see that requirement in the install instructions.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Nor have I seen it in any other games' instructions.

 

[Thrand Graywolf]

No offense Thrand, but I would HATE to see the 2d landscape textures in KR. The ONLY 2d artwork I think that should have been used from day 1 is the art for (non-plant) items (especially armor and weapons as many of those have changed significantly enough that it takes a while to mentally match what the items are).

Not an exact copy, no. Not what I meant. A better, higher res version that ends up at the proper relative scale.

Somehow with KR they managed to take a higher resolution and make it look...less crisp...than the 2D client's 12 year old 800x600. There's also issues where they completely changed what some things look like, got the wrong perspective, wrong scale, wrong colors...if it doesn't look like UO, people won't adopt it. Ever. They've tried twice now, do they really need any more proof?

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

A new UO client could clean the player's house, do the laundry and max out their 401k and certain people STILL wouldn't use it and whine about it.

And yeah, I agree ESPECIALLY with the item art (and again especially at the first of the release of KR) being lower resolution (in fact I'm chatting about that very thing in ICQ with a fellow KR player), but strides were made to sharpen them up before the move.

However that got cut short by the move due to CatHat not moving with the rest of the team. So now it looks like the new team is revamping everything wholesale.

I hope it looks good, but at the same time I hope it doesn't ruin what already looks good in KR.

 

[Thrand Graywolf]

UI? Well, you should see what Zym has been up to.

It's nice that the UI is customizable. I'm all in favor of more options, even if they are options I personally would never use.

However...it shouldn't be necessary.

Most people who play these games are barely computer literate. No matter how easy it might be to re-skin something, people manage to screw it up. Some people won't try...some will try, fail, and quit in frustration.

Their biggest mistake in KR was changing the UI so much. The "legacy" UI should have been priority one...it should be either the default, or a single checkbox that makes KR a higher resolution version of the 2D client, as far as UI is concerned. That's the only way that they can get more of the existing players to swap.

I'm speaking generally. Personally, I know the mods exist to fix a lot of the UI issues, but I've already tried KR and given up on it. At least for now.

I despise the UI, and while I know you guys have worked hard to fix parts of it, that isn't the only issue.

The graphics are simply bad. The fuzziness can't be worked around. When playing KR I get eyestrain trying to differentiate stuff.

Performance is horrible (P4 2.6 GHz, 4 GB RAM, nVidia 7600GT with 512MB...should be more than enough). I stutter constantly, even with the MOB cache set to max.

I can't get around the serious issues with customizable housing. When I'm in KR I can't even get to the 2nd floor of my house because I use a ladder. There's z-axis errors all over the place.

Stability is also an issue. I don't trust KR not to crash. I don't like crashing.

The 2D client does what I need. I like the UI, the graphics are fine, performance is extremely good, and it's pretty stable. KR, on the other hand, gives me nothing I particularly want and has a great many negatives.

I keep hoping that someday the dev guys will get it right...but until they do, the 2D client is fine.

 

[Thrand Graywolf]

I hope it looks good, but at the same time I hope it doesn't ruin what already looks good in KR.

Honestly...I think they had way too many people working on it. Some stuff in KR does look positively brilliant. Some stuff looks like a kid with water colors did it. It's freaky how wide the range in quality is.

My only guess is that they didn't have time for the better artists to touch all of it...and it is a huge job.

I really do hope that someday the KR/SA whatever client is something that I'll want to use. But that day ain't here yet.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

As stated in my first post in the thread, the WORST thing they did with KR was call it "released" LONG before they should have. THAT made the artwork and look suffer, I'll easily agree.

 

[Masuri]

This is true except the grid becoming rearranged for no reason is irritating

They fixed that bug like a year ago. It's the non-grid view that's the pain, since it doesn't sync up to the one in 2D.

Inventory management, legible chat, standard button bars and hotkeys - the new client needs to modernize these things (and by modernize, I mean bring them up to spec with every MMO launched post-UO). KR did most of those, but the bugs and graphics kept those peeps (or their puters) who are stuck in 1997, away from changing. But the best thing any new client can do is have options - for everything. One setting won't make everyone happy. Ten will make most of them happy.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

But the best thing any new client can do is have options - for everything. One setting won't make everyone happy. Ten will make most of them happy.

That's why they need to retain the moddability of the new client. I think the community can provide these options better and more timely than the Devs (not a slight at the devs, just what I've noticed lately).

 

[Thrand Graywolf]

the WORST thing they did with KR was call it "released" LONG before they should have.

I was in the "beta"...I remember we tried to bring up all the things that people have long since given as a reason for not using KR, only to be ignored. I'm not sure why they even had the closed beta. I see that for SA they don't plan on one...well, I guess that's one way to handle it.

I would say that the beta wasn't even really at alpha stage. When they released it maybe it was at what most folks would have called an early alpha. We were approaching beta level when they stopped patching it.

That seems to be an unfortunately common problem across the entire software industry...though KR was an extreme example.

 

[lucitus]

They need to copy the 2D client, interface and all, as just about exactly as they possibly can.

The graphics should be higher res, sure, but substantially the same. Everything needs to have the same scale, the same viewing angle, roughly the same colors. The UI needs to be exactly the same, with graphical gumps, the same style chat, etc.

Then, and only then, should they worry about adding options to make the UI more customizable to other styles that might appeal better to people coming from other games.

Until they nail a client that the vast majority of current subscribers will swap to, they've basically failed. The only way to do that is to give people what they already have, only better.

Their two biggest failures with KR were the UI and the graphics. The UI, to someone used to the 2D client, is horrible. And the graphics are so fuzzy you get a headache trying to figure out what some things are. People logged in, took one look at the freaky interface and the fuzzy graphics, and logged right back out never to try it again.

Sorry but this is definitvly wrong!! For old players like you, it might be right, but for new players and i have introdruced a few in the last months. KR is much easier to learn. Its better to understand where the things are, the hotbar, the items in hotbar are much easier to handle than using UOA for a new players.

The Targetsystem is also better, the SkillWindow, the Paperdoll is clear (ARMOR, CLOTHING, PROFILE).
And last but not least the Status Window (Health Mana Stam) is much easier to handle like the old small Status.
Equipping Items with one key, Healers marked at the map when dead, corpse is marked on map when dead.

This are all things I definitivly dont want to miss anylonger!

Ok there are bugs in KR, the graphics might be more improved, but the best thing in my eyes is the free flexible Interface!!

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

One of the biggest problems, and I see it every time I see "it should look like 2d" is that ANY new client for UO has to battle the effects of now 11 YEARS' worth of mental familiarity.

The "problems" with KR's graphics (especially the improved ones) is not that they are "bad", it's that people are so familiar with the older graphics that their mind either cannot or will not allow them to see the new graphics as better or even good.

This is a bigger problem with items like weapons and armor where the actual item graphic is radically different than the original one (i.e. the Maul in KR looks like a War Hammer, The War Hammer looks way different, I'm pretty certain that Studded leather and ringmail leggings graphics are swapped and so on). But other than that, the graphics are easily recognizable, people just have too much mental familiarity to accept them until they allow the time playing the client to make the adjustment.

 

[von Beck]

When you're mounted in KR it looks like your feet are dragging on the ground. The relative size of the character and mount are all wrong or maybe its a perspective thing?

Anyway I don't want my feet dragging on the ground!

 

[Fox (Europa)]

1. An out-of-the-box option to turn on legacy mode that looks and behaves EXACTLY like the 2D client. This must pick up the existing 2D client settings and import them.

2. The same functionality as UOAM; available in a separate resizeable application window. Don't go messing about making it look pretty (in your opinion), just give all the same features as UOAM, particularly tracking of a custom list of players (i.e. not just guild/alliance members) as used in PvP. Just find someone that PvPs and have them demo how they use UOAM.

3. A scripting language. Lets just level the field. If you don't do this then someone else will.

4. Speed. It needs to be as responsive as 2D. If its not then you will never be able to lose the 2D client. The ability to turn off everything fancy as in 1. above will help with this.

Basically you need to provide the speed and functionality of the 2D client + other applications as used in PvP. If you don't then its dead before its launched.

 

[Elric_Soban]

...

One of the biggest problems, and I see it every time I see "it should look like 2d" is that ANY new client for UO has to battle the effects of now 11 YEARS' worth of mental familiarity.

The "problems" with KR's graphics (especially the improved ones) is not that they are "bad", it's that people are so familiar with the older graphics that their mind either cannot or will not allow them to see the new graphics as better or even good.

This is a bigger problem with items like weapons and armor where the actual item graphic is radically different than the original one (i.e. the Maul in KR looks like a War Hammer, The War Hammer looks way different, I'm pretty certain that Studded leather and ringmail leggings graphics are swapped and so on). But other than that, the graphics are easily recognizable, people just have too much mental familiarity to accept them until they allow the time playing the client to make the adjustment.

Well said.

Did they say anything at the town hall about the status of this new client? How far from being done is it? Are there screenshots? Re-vamping KR or building a whole new one from scratch?

 

[Gildar]

1. Keep the client modable in the same way it is currently modable.
2. Give modders a way to get the current system time.
3. Give modders IO access, but only after a player specifically gives permission to a mod to read/write to the file the mod wants to read/write to (and have that permission be a "this time only", "until I close UO", and "forever" option).
4. Give modders the option to re-position the username/password, and change the background of the login screen (with an optiontional animation that either loops once or loops forever).
5. Give modders the option of changing the background for all screens after the login screen, but before actually getting into the game.
6. Do not let modders change other stuff before the user is actually in the game - I have security concerns. Do not even make it a possibility under the off chance a modder learns the names of the files/objects/etc. Force somebody to actually modify a DLL, EXE, or UOP file if they want to change any of that stuff.
7. Look at what is going into the BB_Enhanced 2.0, Legacy 1.0, and Default_Enhanced 1.0 skins - everything that got added to those was a request from somebody. The only thing in them (ignoring the bugs that are being fixed) that anybody has said they didn't like is fonts, and only because not all the fonts we have used support international characters.
8. Give modders a nice, easy way to save custom string, integer, color, and boolean values.
9. Give modders a way to determine what fonts are available using Lua (UI name, face name, size, etc - every detail about every font).
10. Give modders a way to add variations to fonts through Lua (already have Arial 18px? Let us make an Arial 20px shadow).
11. Look at all the bugs and enhancement requests (including the ones that have been fixed through mods, or were marked 'fixed' as 'EA attention needed') at Modders-Exchange.
12. Give Pinco, Dermott of LS, Ash, Zym Dragon, B-Lau, Lucitus, Sarphus, Fink, and myself beta access (to the client at least [though I'd love to be one of the first to check out the Abyss too ]) so we can both convert existing mods and help track down any bugs in Lua and XML files.
13. Don't allow UOA to interact with the client. Just add in every single feature from it into the client. Allowing UOA to work with the client decreases the chances of those features getting into the client, and isn't fair to those who do not want to use third-party software (before anybody tells me I should just buy UOA - I already have).
14. Do not release the client until it is ready. I don't care if this means it's stuck in Beta for another 2 years - wait until it is done.

 

[Connor_Graham]

* Users should be able to select their own personal colors for their overhead text, and have those colors appear to other players. This is often important in quickly distinguishing who is talking among a group of several people.

This I disagree with. I should be able to choose what color I want others speech to appear as, and not have their choice forced on me. There are quite a few of the color choices in UO, such as bright green, red, purple and pink, that I simply cannot read, regardless of whether it's in caps or by looking in the journal. Anything these particular players say is nothing but a complete blur. I should have the ability to set up my screen how I want it to appear, and not how someone else wants it to.

 

[Beefybone]

This should be utterly trivial to put a toggle in for, but still. The clouds of indistinguishable identical white text floating over the bank crowd in KR was a nightmare.

 

[Canucklehead73]

Not sure if this applies to the UI...

But for me... KR's biggest downfall and something that would make SA more accepted, is a new "functional" targeting system.

The worst part for me with KR was the "target self" and "last target" becoming intertwined after years of playing with "target self" being a seperate target no matter what was going on.

You couldn't ebolt yourself by accident in 2D like you can in KR.

You couldn't cure/heal your opponent by accident like in KR.

Sure you could always ebolt your self in 2D but never by hitting "last target".

The other part was the "cycling" thru targets to get to your actual target, it was basically useless coding in the heat of the action... You could cycle thru your enemies, and friends, and some damn chicken on the road just trying to get to the enemy you wanted to attack.

You just end up clicking your targets manually after a while...

And lastly the mouse wheel was such a shame, did the devs even ask how many people used the mouse wheel? then they decide to lock it into a function? Not make it user definable like any other button?

It was double sad for me, as it linked to the above issues for me, I used the mouse wheel for "target self" and "last target".

And in conclusion, I know it will never happen... But imho the best UI in terms of immersion is FIRST PERSON 3D! And not changeable with some ppl in 3rd person with an advantage over some in 1st person.

I mean just imagine UO where you coudl not "see" people sneaking up on you, or them seeing you sneak up on them in PVP??? It would rock! imho of course.

 

[Evilminion]

As I've said before, I'm a devoted 2D player. However, there are a few things that could tempt me over to a 3D client, if they were implemented properly.

1) Similar, recognizable artwork. There's always been a certain look and feel to Ultima (the last standalone game notwithstanding) -- an evolution of game items, architectural elements, and creatures -- from the early, rudimentary graphics to the much more detailed images of the later games. While I like some of the graphics in KR, others look as though they were dragged over from a different game entirely and pasted into ours. I'm not saying everything needs to look exactly the same, but I would prefer to be able to recognize something in a new 3D client without having to mouse over it. (I want to be saying, "Oooo, that's amazing, and it's DEFINITELY an ogre lord.)

2) An option for complete legacy UI or, better still, the ability to toggle specific UI elements of the legacy and new versions. So, for instance, if I prefer the "open backpack" functionality of the legacy client to the gridded functionality of the new one, BUT I prefer double-clicking an item on a corpse to retrieve it instead of the legacy "grab and drag" approach, I'd love to be able to select these elements individually on an options screen.

3) Some sort of performance boost, enhanced script options, or other compelling reason to make me WANT to switch. Given that I'm quite content with the 2D version, I have no particular urge to move to a new client. If, however, that client offers something not merely new, but undeniably more effective than the current one, then it could be worth my while to switch.

Just the opinions of an old UO junkie and 2D player, for what they're worth to the devs.

 

[Dermott of LS]

Evilminion:

1. Fully agreed... especially with item artwork. The armor and weapons were in my opinion the biggest failures of item artwork because they look SO different than their Legacy counterparts. I was TRYING very hard to get them to make it so that you could toggle between 3 Legacy item artwork styles (items, house tiles, foliage) because I would have rather had the item artwork, but maintained the house and foliage artwork, other people may have wanted other combinations.

2. I'll just point you to Zym Dragon's Legacy UI that is in the process of being developed over on the Exchange. When he gets done, I'm sure we'll see a pretty detailed walkthrough of what he's done. Basically, he's replacing ALL of the UI elements with "Legacy" versions and the outcome is quite amazing. On top of it, there will be the enhancements we have also done functionally to the UI as well which blows the default KR UI out of the water already.

3. This is a good one, but a kind of tricky one because while you want enhanced features, you DO NOT want them to be SO enhanced that they facilitate easier scripting and farming of the economy. The crafting system in KR does a good job of this as it really does lower the amount of click-work you have to do, BUT it stops short of being able to set something up to "get Quest, make item, mark as quest item, turn in quest" all in one keypress.

If they can get the Targeting system down, improve the way TargetByResource works, and fix things like free-form placement in containers, I think you'd be pleased with what the client really has to offer.

 

[Gheed]

...

One of the biggest problems, and I see it every time I see "it should look like 2d" is that ANY new client for UO has to battle the effects of now 11 YEARS' worth of mental familiarity.

The "problems" with KR's graphics (especially the improved ones) is not that they are "bad", it's that people are so familiar with the older graphics that their mind either cannot or will not allow them to see the new graphics as better or even good.

This is a bigger problem with items like weapons and armor where the actual item graphic is radically different than the original one (i.e. the Maul in KR looks like a War Hammer, The War Hammer looks way different, I'm pretty certain that Studded leather and ringmail leggings graphics are swapped and so on). But other than that, the graphics are easily recognizable, people just have too much mental familiarity to accept them until they allow the time playing the client to make the adjustment.

I drove a beat up old car for almost 10 years before I bought my shiny new one. I was pretty "mentally familiar" with my old car but I am sure glad my new one looks completly different. I don't agree that most folks stuck with the old client based strictly on graphics and their unwillines to part with them for something different. They would have parted with the (old) client if the new one looked better though.

Without spliiting hairs on specific art betwen the two clients I'll agree that many things in KR were far superior to 2D. But many things were horrible in KR and none of the specific pieces fit together very well to make the whole anything more than an eyesore in most screens. The "world" didn't fit togehter quite right.

I can only speak for myself on this next point but a shodily stitched together world is what turned me off of KR. I didn't even try to learn the new interface because I could not stand looking at it right from the start (log on screen)....Brass(Gold) trim went out many years ago.

Then the problem became two-fold against KR for me. I would first have to learn how to play it, then I would have to send in tons of feedback and petetion EA non stop hoping that they would soon straighten out all of the graphics mess. The they threw in a legacy artwork toggle on specific clients and I was officially done with KR.

To my main wish on this new client:

Each and every piece of art MUST fit together with all of the other pieces around it. I dont wish it looks like 2D. But I do with that each specific item in the new client have the same orientation, place on the same axis (position on a tile), and try to use the same dimensions(size) as the each specific piece of art in the old client.

This would assist the new client in fitting together as well as the old one does. It makes designing far less of a headache in tweaking non player made art in object laden areas as well as making it much easier for player homes, and towns to transition their time intensive creations to the new client.

 

[Sabbath]

12. Give Pinco, Dermott of LS, Ash, Zym Dragon, B-Lau, Lucitus, Sarphus, Fink, and myself beta access

Best thing EA could do for SA is to give all these folks jobs...:bowdown:

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Only if I don't have to code too much and I can work from home. I already have one job I cannot give up (or at least would be crazy to do so).

 

[love2winalot]

Make the radar map in color, so it does not always look like i am in the desert.
Coloring book 101, stay inside the lines. Look at any banner in 2d that has been dyed. Now look at that same banner in kr, the entire thing gets dyed, even the pole.
If you are going to keep 2d, then this client needs everything to be about the same size. A Golem in 2d is a mini me in kr.
I would prefer my beetle to go straight, and not sideways.
make shiny things shiny again. Gold as example.
Beta test it on Test Center, and not on all shards.
If you can do it faster or easier in 2d, then you have it wrong in kr.
Complete instructions. Learning the game is part of the game, learning how to use the client is not.
Stop releying on players to make up for ommisions or shortfalls. I should not have to download stuff from other places to use the client fully.

 

[lucitus]

Iam charmend and very glad to see that the community is respecting our work as modders!!

I will see what the future brings, at this time iam studying physics and computer sciences, maybe in the future you will see me in the Dev Team, yeah it is dream...

 

[NuSair]

If I was designing a new UI for UO from the ground up, I would look at what other game systems have done since UO and apply it to UO.

Chat. There needs to be chat boxes like Everquest. You need to be able to have 3, 4, 5 or even more boxes for ongoing chats. I know when I played EQ, I was in /guild, /group, /global chanter, /friend chat all in different boxes, and that didn't include boxes for raid and spam.

Hot bars. Absolutely essential.

Modable. The EQ interface was modable using XML. No reason UO couldn't be handled in the same way.

Targeting- there has to be a better way to target. I like being able to 'cycle' through targets. One key for friendly and one for not friendly targets. And speaking of that...

A target box. A box that shows the name and the hp's left of whatever I am targeting at that time.

'Party' Box. I want a static box where members of my party are shown and their bars are shown that I don't have to keep pulling them.

That would be a good start.

You can e-mail me at [email protected] for more direct responses.

 

[Experimental]

*licks it and sticks it*

hehehehe....
nice images in my head now....