R
RenaLynne
Guest
Isnt not being able to leave Fel the punishment for being a murderer? So basically, you dont think there should be any negatives to being red? Am I missing something here?
Try making a red char and and play Fel same way as you would with tour blue.I have to agree most reds are foul mouthed jackasses who need to be whipped and tomatered in the town square.
Yes you are missing something here.Isnt not being able to leave Fel the punishment for being a murderer? So basically, you dont think there should be any negatives to being red? Am I missing something here?
Exactly, as long as there is no change to the Tram ruleset, minus letting reds in, it doesn't affect anyone in Tram.Sure. Allow Reds in Trammel. They Can PvM just like everyone else. They wouldn't be able to attack anyone and nobody could attack them (thanks to the Trammel Rule-set), so what do I care if they are there or not....I don't.
Sounds boring to me, I like my idea better.Sure. Allow Reds in Trammel. They Can PvM just like everyone else. They wouldn't be able to attack anyone and nobody could attack them (thanks to the Trammel Rule-set), so what do I care if they are there or not....I don't.
The problem is that there are too many people who would exploit it. And too many Trammelites who just don't understand the game mechanics behind PvP and the flagging system.Sounds boring to me, I like my idea better.
Being able to go to Trammel and being 100% safe would never bring me back to normal shards. If I liked that, I would play on my blue in Trammel.
I can easy accept, that I can't attack blue unless they recently attacled or looted a red but being so safe, that I can't be attacked, that's damn boring.
Guess I never will make it back to Atlantic, the shard I was born on.
Sure a few blue may be that foolish but they will only de the mistake one time, then they would learn.The problem is that there are too many people who would exploit it. And too many Trammelites who just don't understand the game mechanics behind PvP and the flagging system.
We would also have Reds starting to $#%& talk at people to goat them into attacking them, which usualy ends in the Red destroying the Blue and the Blue claiming "hacker".
I'm confused, why can't you own a house in Felucca and log them there? Why do you have to log them in an inn?I really think reds should be allowed in tram at least then I could own a house in tram and not have to log my red at an inn every time.
I've got a better idea, just make it so reds can't come to Trammel. Oh wait it's already that way. Okay problem solved, no action necessary.Just make it so youngs can't attack or loot reds.
No your not missing anything, they want all punishments removed so they can raid and plumage all they want in Fel and then go to Tram whenever they want. Be it to escape retribution, easy access to banks so they can't be attacked or stolen from, so they easily get stuff to tram vendors that they took off people in Fel. It isn't enough that their raids and PKing keep blues in Tram, now they want to be able to go there as well.Isnt not being able to leave Fel the punishment for being a murderer? So basically, you dont think there should be any negatives to being red? Am I missing something here?
Because you can only own one house per account, and he must already have a house in Tram.I'm confused, why can't you own a house in Felucca and log them there? Why do you have to log them in an inn?
So in your mind allowing Reds in Tram, as long as they had to follow the current ruleset, is not ok with you?I've got a better idea, just make it so reds can't come to Trammel. Oh wait it's already that way. Okay problem solved, no action necessary.
With your logic, we could say that no blues should be allowed in Fel, yet they are allowed.No your not missing anything, they want all punishments removed so they can raid and plumage all they want in Fel and then go to Tram whenever they want. Be it to escape retribution, easy access to banks so they can't be attacked or stolen from, so they easily get stuff to tram vendors that they took off people in Fel. It isn't enough that their raids and PKing keep blues in Tram, now they want to be able to go there as well.
My opinion is the idea is crap, they get the benefit of risk vs reward but don't want to deal with the consequences of being red. They want to say they pay their $ each month and should have everything available to them, I say I pay my $ each month and should be able to do champ spawns for scrolls without being raided. But i am sure they will argue that if I spent months learning to fight I can go to fel, well if they have a blue they can go to Tram.
Sounds like you're the only one so far.Sounds boring to me, I like my idea better.Sure. Allow Reds in Trammel. They Can PvM just like everyone else. They wouldn't be able to attack anyone and nobody could attack them (thanks to the Trammel Rule-set), so what do I care if they are there or not....I don't.
Have you ever been to Fel? - YesWith your logic, we could say that no blues should be allowed in Fel, yet they are allowed.
You strike me as someone who has not had much success in PvP or in Fel, but the fact remains that saying we made our bed just holds no water.
You can PK people regardless if your Red or Blue.
But I would agree with you that no Reds should be allowed in Tram, but then maybe they should make it to where you cant burn off murder counts. Once you get a count its there permanently. If you get 5 your red permanently.
I just find it funny that you are so ademate about leaving Reds out of Tram, when it doesnt affect you in any way at all.
Have you ever been to Fel?
Have you ever killed a blue on your blue in Fel?
Have you ever done a champ spawn in Fel?
Have you ever PvPed in Fel other than Yew gate?
The answers to these questions may help us understand where you point of view is coming from, and what kind of credence it has.
Besides just being able to see how 'my logic' applied to such an illogical statement, it is also completely unable to be done as then you have the whole chicken vs egg dilemma. If don't allow blues in, then they can't become red so can't get in. But hey, by your logic that would mean the end of PvP since without blues to kill all the murders will become blue and be kicked out of fel.With your logic, we could say that no blues should be allowed in Fel, yet they are allowed.
They can do all of this already just by switching over to a blue char on the same account. Having a red doesn't keep an entire account from Tram, it just keeps that single char from Tram. Your entire argument is pointless because of that simple fact. Hell, the blue you crossheal with in Doom today could very well be the same player whose red char killed and drylooted you 2 hours before. You'd never know unless you knew the player or someone told you. As long as the rules stay the same in both rulesets, I don't see any reason why any character should be limited to a single land.No your not missing anything, they want all punishments removed so they can raid and plumage all they want in Fel and then go to Tram whenever they want. Be it to escape retribution, easy access to banks so they can't be attacked or stolen from, so they easily get stuff to tram vendors that they took off people in Fel. It isn't enough that their raids and PKing keep blues in Tram, now they want to be able to go there as well.
.
That is my point, players are not restricted because they have a red as they have opportunity to have blue char. If they choose to have all their characters red, then that is their choice which they made with full knowledge of the consequences.They can do all of this already just by switching over to a blue char on the same account. Having a red doesn't keep an entire account from Tram, it just keeps that single char from Tram.
That's my point.That is my point, players are not restricted because they have a red as they have opportunity to have blue char. If they choose to have all their characters red, then that is their choice which they made with full knowledge of the consequences.
You do realize that some of use have been playing since before Tram. When there was no Tram, you are correct to say we made our own beds. But with the introduction of Tram and the almost 180 degree change in the game, now leaves all my characters out of Tram.That is my point, players are not restricted because they have a red as they have opportunity to have blue char. If they choose to have all their characters red, then that is their choice which they made with full knowledge of the consequences.
If anyone wants to argue no consequences for red, then fine put powerscrolls in tram or ilsh so i only have to deal with reds when I choose to enter PvP. But since powerscrolls are only available in Fel, one is forced to enter in PvP in order to obtain them and there should be consequences for murders if i am forced to PvP. If powerscrolls were available elsewhere and then the only purpose of Fel would be true consensual PvP then by all means do away with consequences since at that point I will be entering the arena for PvP and not being subjected to it as the only means to acquire powerscrolls. However I know everyone (well mostly fel folks) will argue the keeping of powerscrolls to Fel only, so therefor I argue to keep reds out of Tram. In truth I don't really want powerscrolls in Tram either as they would be farmed and utterly worthless, but neither do i want to have to lay in the dirt to 4 reds boasting how they killed me in a 4 on 1 match up.
So keep it is as is, or make changes to stop forcing people to have to go to fel for items that can't be acquired anywhere else.
You are still generalizing. There are many reds who do have blues and I'm sure you've played right along side them without even knowing it.Given the way a large percentage of reds on my shard behave I am quite happy for them to stay in fel, having them able to annoy me on all facets would just wreck the game.
Not saying all reds make me feel this way some fight with honour but a large group do not and they wreck the fun for everyone.
* scratches head*Why? Just allowing reds to travel outside of fel does not mean that reds cn come to trammel and start killing people the trammel rules still apply the only difference is that reds are no longer limited to the felucca facet only.
I really think reds should be allowed in tram at least then I could own a house in tram and not have to log my red at an inn every time. Not to mention if you only have single account and you have a red on that account you need a house in fel or else the only thing you can access is your bank for storage and that sucks.
Again, if no blues in Fel then how can there be reds?You are still generalizing. There are many reds who do have blues and I'm sure you've played right along side them without even knowing it.
We are not asking to change the rule in Tram, just to let reds there too. But they would have to follow the current ruleset.
Or if they made the change i propose to where when you enter Fel you are red regardless if youve killed anyone or not, and when you enter Tram you are blue.
You never answered the question of why there should be consequences for being red?ahh.. righto.. then maybe this thread should be ....
"Remove all consequences for being red" aka.. "I wanna eat all the chocolate I can and never gain an ounce" or "I should be allowed to take all the money from the bank without you coppers bothering me" or "Honey, don't be like that.. I'm a guy, and its in my DNA to sleep with as many women as I can before I die"
hee. hee.
Why are you fixating on an exaggeration of his?Again, if no blues in Fel then how can there be reds?
You are completely ignoring the fact that not everyone that goes to Fel WANTS to PvP but are forced to do so. Only way reds should be void of any consequences is if PvP was truly consensual and not forced upon as only means to earn certain items. You want to get rid of all consequences then give up the risk vs reward benefits as well.
Read carefully to my responses and you will see I answered if you want to get rid of consequences then give up the benefits of risk v reward.Why are you fixating on an exaggeration of his?
Riddle me this, then?
Why shouldn't blues be allowed in Felucca? There is no reason why they shouldn't be.
Why shouldn't reds be allowed in Trammel? There is no reason why they shouldn't be.
Name me an item you can get in Felucca that you cannot get in Trammel?If the ability to get items ONLY available to Fel were made available elsewhere, then and only then would PvP be truly consensual and justification for lifting consequences be reasonable.
Name me an item you can get in Felucca that you cannot get in Trammel?
You choose to go to Felucca and because there is an incentive to go there, you feel it's justifiable that a playerbase shouldn't be allowed to go to Trammel?
It is consensual because you have a choice. You're post has nothing to do with Risk vs Reward.
The only thing you're saying to me is that, since there are Trammel players that choose not to go after power scrolls because they are intimidated by red characters, then it's only fair that red characters not be allowed in Trammel facets at all because YOU need payback for them enjoying a playstyle.
Seriously?
Please.
there is an idea, PvP only if in Factions or Guild Wars. Everyone wins....
So ditch reds entirely, Trammelize Fel, limit PvP to consentual systems, get rid of double resources/fame/etc and let things go from there.
No? Didn't think so.
I think you are onto something!...
So ditch reds entirely, Trammelize Fel, limit PvP to consentual systems, get rid of double resources/fame/etc and let things go from there.
No? Didn't think so.
What UO players and possibly EA needs to figure out is that no game HAS EVER BEEN successful when you could lose items. In games where you absolutely can not lose items you have very little risk. The majority of players get enough of a sense of risk in their real lives, and when they enter the game they don't want to feel a real sense of risk. There is a reason no other game has ever allowed items to drop to a corpse since UO, and there is a reason why those games for the most party were 10-20x (or more) as successful as UO.I just had a brainstorm (or a brainfart depending on your views )
PvP is completely consentual and reds can go anywhere. When a blue enters fel or a red enters tram, every uninsured item you have earned there can be contested (Resources ETC). Someone can challenge you and if you choose not to fight, they get the items you earned there (Powerscrolls ETC). If you accept and win you get to keep your items. This continues to encourage pvp but doesn't force it.
And here I was thinking the whines about greater dragons weren't extreme enough yet. Out of all the time I've been pvping in Felucca I've seen MAYBE 5-6 greater dragons. I've seen that many in Trammel/Ilsh/Malas in one dungeon at a given time. You really think a red walking into a dungeon to pick a fight is going to start said fight without that blue having all of his friends and their pets there. I mean, come on, one greater is enough, but imagine having 5 on you just because you are red. Thats not going to end very well for the red. Don't assume all blues have no clue to PvP just because they chose not to live in Felucca on reds.Sure a few blue may be that foolish but they will only de the mistake one time, then they would learn.
In my experience it has been scrubs that invite you to go to Felucca, and the majority of the time the person that gets invited to Felucca ends up cleaning up the scrub. I remember being in Cove and some dude coming to my friend and telling him how much tamers sucked and that they had no skill and that he could easily beat him up in Felucca. My friend told him to gate so the dude gates to some place (I'm assuming it was the roof of Empath Abbey) that was about 5x5 size and my friend's dog ate him.And yes, there would be a few reds trying to trick blue to a fight, but they do that already with inviting them to follow them to Felucca.
Unfortunately it almost always does, and that is not just in UO, but in many other games. Number one reason people complain about WoW (and leave WoW) is because of the fools and asshats that are in great supply and always tend to flock together. Nothing is quite as fun as having someone that knows absolutely nothing about his own character tell you how to play yours (when he has never played yours before) and then complain because you aren't doing it to his expectations.A few fools and a few asshats should not stop the game from moving forward.
So take any and all pentalty away from being red? Reds should be freely lootable by everyone and freely attackable by everyone if you let them into Trammel. If that person just so happens to be unattackable and has a young tag then tough luck for the red. Besides, other than the multiple Melissa trial accounts that were opened, when was the last time you ever saw a young?Just make it so youngs can't attack or loot reds.
What the hell?...
So ditch reds entirely, Trammelize Fel, limit PvP to consentual systems, get rid of double resources/fame/etc and let things go from there.
No? Didn't think so.
If you made reds freely attackable in Trammel I can pretty much gaurantee you no red would ever get near Luna bank without having a zerg of players kill them just for fun.No your not missing anything, they want all punishments removed so they can raid and plumage all they want in Fel and then go to Tram whenever they want. Be it to escape retribution, easy access to banks so they can't be attacked or stolen from, so they easily get stuff to tram vendors that they took off people in Fel. It isn't enough that their raids and PKing keep blues in Tram, now they want to be able to go there as well.
I am 100% in agreement. One of my favorite things to do in UO is champion spawns, but I'm not investing that much time and effort into something so someone can come along and kill me then take it from me, so I normally don't even bother logging in unless its for an event or I'm really bored. I like UO, so I don't plan on closing my account, but I hardly play anymore simply because of the issues with champion spawns being only in Felucca.I say I pay my $ each month and should be able to do champ spawns for scrolls without being raided. But i am sure they will argue that if I spent months learning to fight I can go to fel, well if they have a blue they can go to Tram.
It is called moving. There are plenty of spots on most servers to place max sized house in Felucca. If you want to be red then live in Felucca. If you own a house in Trammel/Malas/Tokuno then sell it and move. Its more than the said player wants to be red on one toon, but he doesn't want to have to worry about his blues ever getting attacked (although he probably attacks other blues freely) so he lives in Trammel ruleset. Now he wants to bring his red to his house in Trammel simply so he doesn't have to take his blues to Felucca. That is the pure definition of hypocricy in my oppinion.Because you can only own one house per account, and he must already have a house in Tram.
No more confusion
Your arguments make no sense. And you people sound really psychotic holding such angst against a player base that doesn't even affect your playstyle.so you are red because you engage in non-consensual pvp on a facet that gives double the fame, gold and resources, not to mention scrolls, and you think there shouldn't be any consequences for that?
peeps can whine about it all they like.. but if you have a red that you need to take to tram world, then work off the counts. Seriously dude.. you already have a remedy at your disposal for getting your toons to tramworld. Use it instead of whining about changes here. Your arguments make no sense.
That player pays the same monthly subscription fee that you do. He/She should be allowed to enjoy this game the way he/she feels he/she damn well pleases.It is called moving. There are plenty of spots on most servers to place max sized house in Felucca. If you want to be red then live in Felucca. If you own a house in Trammel/Malas/Tokuno then sell it and move. Its more than the said player wants to be red on one toon, but he doesn't want to have to worry about his blues ever getting attacked (although he probably attacks other blues freely) so he lives in Trammel ruleset. Now he wants to bring his red to his house in Trammel simply so he doesn't have to take his blues to Felucca. That is the pure definition of hypocricy in my oppinion.Because you can only own one house per account, and he must already have a house in Tram.
No more confusion
Fine...I'll go with that...new rule should be that if you have a red on your account your entire account is restricted to Felucca only. That would solve a lot of issues about just switching characters. If you want items from Travesty then buy them from other players and if you want items from Doom then buy them from other players. When guilds "own felucca champion spawns" they make the arguement that you can still buy scrolls from them, so it seems only fair.That's my point.
What purpose does having the restriction serve?
Hint: none
There should only be consequences if they make sense... these don't.
Here is the deal. You give us power scroll drops on champion spawns in Ilshenar/Tokuno and a harrower in Trammel and I will gladly have them mirror the Citadel and the Guantlet in Felucca. The catch though is that you have to have all your characters in Felucca if you have a red and you can have your characters in Felucca or Trammel if you don't have a red.
Do you know what power scrolls and stat scrolls are? Seriously. Don't say that you can buy them from those that go to Felucca or something stupid like that or I will argue that no one with a red on their account should have access to the gauntlet, DH, or Travesty.Name me an item you can get in Felucca that you cannot get in Trammel?
The very fact that the developers feel the need to BRIBE players to enter Felucca because simply wanting to PvP is not enough reason is proof that the PvP system in this game is borked. With a fully consentual system of PvP you would have people that actually want to PvP bring the challenge and you would see a lot more PvP than what currently goes on.You choose to go to Felucca and because there is an incentive to go there, you feel it's justifiable that a playerbase shouldn't be allowed to go to Trammel?
Your choice is to go get the double resources yourself or buy them from some scripter that is doing it. Your choice is to go get power scrolls yourself or buy it from some zerg hacker guild that "owns all of the spawns in Felucca". The choice is normally simple. I buy very few powerscrolls for my characters, and I get the majority of them myself. I don't buy rescources from players at all, and I sell them (and I don't script to get them).It is consensual because you have a choice. You're post has nothing to do with Risk vs Reward.
Lol. Thats a typical red response. What the poster is saying is that if you feel the need to destroy someone else's fun for personal gain while they are PvMing then we really don't see a reason you should be allowed to come to Trammel so we have to deal with you there too.The only thing you're saying to me is that, since there are Trammel players that choose not to go after power scrolls because they are intimidated by red characters, then it's only fair that red characters not be allowed in Trammel facets at all because YOU need payback for them enjoying a playstyle.