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MoonglowMerchant
Guest
On Siege, when I die, I lose, on average, 300k per death. Siege gold is worth 3-5 times production shard gold. So, one death for me is the eqivalent of a million or so gold on Atlantic.
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Do you PvP? When you die once, how much do you lose in insurance gold?
- Thread starter MoonglowMerchant
- Start date
- Watchers 0
From the packs I've seen on LS and Atlantic, I'd say the most they actually lose is 4k. Ain't insurance grand?...la
Nah most production shard pvpers will lose somewhere between 8k to 10k when they die.
Not everyone runs GM armor. I'm really starting to doubt you've ever played on Siege. You seem to make up an awful lot...la
I Think this is a bit of an exaggeration to say the least. But since there is no insurance on siege at least last I looked there wasn't you lose a suit every time unless it does not get looted?
The value of a suit on siege is probably much different than that of other shards and I would say they are more valued on other shards.
The value of gold may very well be different on siege than other shards but not nearly what you make it out to be.
And comparing insurance costs on other shards to losing a suit on siege is just plain pointless...
No, as I have stated, based on what I have seen on those two production shards...that is how much most of them would lose...la
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MoonglowMerchant
Guest
Sammy helm is 250k to start.
If I'm on a chiv dexxer, I'm using 1/2's with high DCI. I'm also wearing runic armor with the occasional cursed arty in the mix.
There are people wearing better stuff than me too.
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MoonglowMerchant
Guest
It isn't an exaggeration at all. Read above for further explanation.
You are right that I don't lose everything each time I die. Every time I die though, I risk getting dry looted.
Siege gold is 5 dollars per million. Isn't prod shard gold 1 dollar?
Want to buy a couple? I stole a couple of them last week
...la
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MoonglowMerchant
Guest
I'll buy them. If you have 1/2's with DCI or those mage wep staffs with 15 dci I like that stuff as well.Want to buy a couple? I stole a couple of them last week
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MoonglowMerchant
Guest
Revvo tends to exaggerate a bit, but I have seen this before.
Right there you admit people do run GM armor, which is what I said I would lose if I died.
Nope, never played Siege rolleyes:
http://my.uo.com/cgi-bin/my_chars.p...6eecabf46efe3cf3b274207205cf5ee3b613535458d36
http://my.uo.com/cgi-bin/my_chars.p...92663e864baf5d80e383355964a1783c47628f1d71722
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Clarifier
Guest
On the handful of characters I pvp with my necro costs the least at 3600 and my archer costs the most at 5400. If you get killed in pvp you only pay 50% insurance costs so the amounts double if a monster gets me. (Trust me, that NEVER happens. EVER! I promise. Why would I lie?)
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Dexdash
Guest
on seige its not uncomon for a person wearing a decent suit to have
sammy helm-250
heart of lion-400k
leggs of embers 250k
plus jewels regs and pots etc trapped boxes cursed arties
id say its more comon to see people run with at least 1 or these items than not.
i know i donate at least 3-4 300k plus suits each week when i pvp
and there are a few that roll with 1-2 million dollar suits every time they come out the door.
helmet
gorget
gloves
arms
tunic
legs
ring
bracelet
talisman
weapon (1 minimum, but more like 3 or 4)
shield (maybe)
That right there would be 6600 in gold, not counting if they had more than 1 weapon.
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MoonglowMerchant
Guest
People certainly wear gm armor on Siege.
It is one of the really cool things about the shard.
Of course, one of the other cool things is that we have all the same stuff you do on your shard and we can use it too. But, if we do use it, there is a risk.
I'm not sure why I started this thread. I think it was to point out to production sharders who think we don't have any high end items that we actually do.
It was also to illustrate why people who come to Siege from production shards seldom return. If you are looking for a challenge, you can find one here that doesn't exist on production shards. That is, you can actually lose things.
Edit: ...and then the fun is in getting them back.
I could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time) But I don't believe this is correct.
You still pay 600 gold per insured item when you die to another player, but the difference in PvP is the person who gets the insurance only gets 50% of the $$$.
I'm not at home to check, but I'm pretty sure I've looked at my journal after losing a fight and seen 600 gold per piece being deducted.
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Revenant2
Guest
Mages tend to pay small amounts of insurance, like as low as 2 - 3 k. Dexers can pay a ton because they may carry lots of weapons, multiple jewelry combos, and ugh.
I don't want to talk about how much my archer pays, I don't even want to know. I don't want to check, either.
One time I killed an archer that paid 16k. I went and put GM snooping on my stealther just to look and see what the heck he had in there. I'm looking at that screenshot now. He just carries.... everything? Pet ball, extra jewels, several talismans, many weapons. His pack looks like a messy chest in my house.
It kinda sucks how dexers pay a ton more insurance out than mages. I wish something equalized that a bit, but I'm not sure just how to do it.
I don't want to talk about how much my archer pays, I don't even want to know. I don't want to check, either.
One time I killed an archer that paid 16k. I went and put GM snooping on my stealther just to look and see what the heck he had in there. I'm looking at that screenshot now. He just carries.... everything? Pet ball, extra jewels, several talismans, many weapons. His pack looks like a messy chest in my house.
It kinda sucks how dexers pay a ton more insurance out than mages. I wish something equalized that a bit, but I'm not sure just how to do it.
On the production shards, if you die to an enemy faction character, your insurance renewal cost is 100 gp per insured item. Die to an enemy faction monster, though, and you pay the regular rate to renew your insurance (600 gp per item).
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Revenant2
Guest
nononono its 300 if a person kills you, and 600 if a monster or pet does it. I am not sure it will be visible in your journal proper, you may have to catch the text as it flies past on the left, right before the screen goes black. If you are logging your journal to a text file (kinda a pain to make work right), you'll see it there.
That is correct...the player that kills you only gets half the insured value. If you go look at your bank box, you will find that you have still lost $600 gold/item. My mages/bards and tamers cost me about ~7000k gold/death, my dexxers and archers, closer to 10K.
Colter, I researched this a couple of weeks ago but can't get to the information right now. I'm pretty sure there is a difference in the insurance renewal costs between dying to monsters, another nonfaction character, or to an enemy faction character. Just can't remember which one is which (I think it's 600 for monster deaths, 300 for regular pvp deaths, and 100 for enemy faction deaths). I think there's also a difference in what the killer gets in a pvp situation depending on whether or not the killer is in an enemy faction or not.
I'll check too when I get home.
On the production shards, if you die to an enemy faction character, your insurance renewal cost is 100 gp per insured item. Die to an enemy faction monster, though, and you pay the regular rate to renew your insurance (600 gp per item).
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Revenant2
Guest
I don't think that's right. When I die to a person, I see messages saying that 300 gold is being withdrawn from my bank box as each item is being reinsured. That message would have to be lying.
Not entirely sure why you consider fact an exaggeration, Kage and HaHa for a start always equip at least that, i know a few TD/TO also wear at least that as well
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Masumatek
Guest
Nothing against you personally Merchant, but I don't think that's something to brag about. The fact that some people do run in very powerful gear in "throwaway suits" of 100k-1 mill+ Siege gold...is sad. I'm not saying you're sad for running in it. I'm saying it's sad we even have this situation on Siege. Siege is item-based now beyond repair and will only get worse in the future, however difficult to imagine that is. This is why I suggest we scrap Siege and remake it right. We might get some changes that help us, or even help us a ton. We might one day have a very healthy population on Siege. But there will always be major, major problems with it that won't be fixed without remaking it. Start over, do it right, and lock it in place free from the addition of content designed for trammel shards. This is what needs to be done and this is what we need to ask the devs for.
Risk versus reward my good friend, risk versus reward
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AZ-
Guest
I don't want to PvM to PvP my good friend. That's the main reason that keeps me off siege (although I do have a newbie mage).
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gmcbroom
Guest
I play on siege. I die alot. If I keep anything I'm usually stunned. The only thing I ever expect to keep is the item I have blessed. Otherwise everything is expendable. I like the game alot but I refuse to be so engrossed that I worry about keeping an item or items that don't even exist in real life.
gmcbroom
gmcbroom
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AZ-
Guest
I have no desire to go looking for equipment everytime I die. I do PvP, and I'd bet money I could beat you on most any template, I just don't care to pvm...at all. Ever. It isn't fun, nor is it entertaining in the slightest degree.
Explain how a no DCI mage will live against a HLD archer? This game is about items now, like it or not. Siege is just as much about items as production shards, you just have to replace them once you die.
Explain how a no DCI mage will live against a HLD archer? This game is about items now, like it or not. Siege is just as much about items as production shards, you just have to replace them once you die.
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AZ-
Guest
^ I thought that too.
By running parry?
What you don't seem to grasp is on Siege if you have to sacrifice something in your template then so do they. No easy mode have it all on Siege you have to actually be pretty smart probably why we have such a small population
I bet you don't have what it takes to compete on Siege, prove me wrong
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galefan2004
Guest
Unless you are whining about insurance. In which case, go play on Siege. Oh wait, you already are.
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galefan2004
Guest
Wow, I can hemorage gold to pkers on a daily basis. Sign me up. J/K! If I wanted to play with being able to lose everything I worked for everytime I died, I would have played UO before Trammel came out.
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galefan2004
Guest
You want to prove how bad he sucks then go to his house don't invite him to come to yours.I bet you don't have what it takes to compete on Siege, prove me wrong
He asked first silly so by your logic....
The dollar value on gold is a poor way to judge the actual value of gold per shard...
WTF are you talking about? I am not whining about anything at all I am only stating that there is no point comparing siege to other shards they are very very different.
I don't play siege not that I haven't but I do not play it now because I simply dislike the gameplay there.
So hey next time you want to reply and quote me put a little thought into it or else STFU and GTFO!
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Clarifier
Guest
Ok, just tested insurance costs. Took a char with one insured item and died to a corpser. Cost = 600gp Killed the same char with a char on another acct. Cost = 300gp Took one of my Sl chars with one insured item and killed them with my Com char. Cost = 100gp. In each case you receive a message telling you the amount deducted from your bank and I can verify those messages are correct.
Any facts to support your assertation?
I play both Siege and Atlantic... and let me tell you, if anything its a fantastic way to explain it. You can't tell me that the risk vs reward on shards other than siege is proportional in any-way-what-so-ever... and point blank, that is why any and all commodities on non-siege shards are damn near worthless... and the only items of any worth, are extremely rare or extremely (pvp) useful items... otherwise, everything has no value (reward) because there is no risk.
So sorry, but you are wrong... and the next time you tell someone to STFU, I'm going to pancake slap you so hard your kids feel the sting.
k tks.
the game-play is the same as prodo... the only difference to siege is that it has more of an end-game than any of the other shards.
You dislike having any actual risk in a videogame... cool, but please... stop the charade, you can wrap anything in a bow and call it a present... it doesn't change one bit, what it actually is tho.
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Lord Kynd
Guest
yes you should be deducted 600 gold per item, this re-insures them
the gold peopel get is from the initial insuring of the item(s).
in all i think i have 6 things insured, rest are blessed . soo they get.. what .. 1.8k , maybe another 300-600 gold for weapon(s).
woohoo
Siege will never have a good population. The siege stratics diehards are ruining it foe everyone else hence why I dont play siege often anymore and yes I played siege for a few years. But you gotta have it no blessings and no this or thaty. Were Teh Hardcorz we dont need players here hobblitly a hoobla BS that the siege player base whines about.
http://my.uo.com/cgi-bin/my_chars.p...fefab57b8c01dde8395e80c5d76dd129569dc19ee583b
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Masumatek
Guest
I support risk. I support meaningful death. I would not play on Siege if these good things were as absent as they are on trammel shards. But the game does not need to be item-based for these things to exist.
To comment on the whole "you don't need to PvM...PvP and loot":
1) That condemns anyone but the best PvPers. You're basically saying: "Either waste your time being forced to do stupid, boring pvm, quests, and crafting that you hate and find no enjoyment in...or be an amazing PvP and loot everyone you kill. Wow, what great choices. And we all know everyone has amazing PvP talent and can choose to be an amazing PvPer right? Nope, the majority of people are condemned to the first option, the one they don't find enjoyment in. And since you're right in that "great PvPers" are the ones who can get better gear because they get more kills, what you're basically doing in an item-based free loot system is giving more power to those who already have it (already have it because of skill, but you make them more powerful with the items). Sounds like a good plan eh? Not to me.
2) You force people who don't want to PvM/quest/craft to compete to loot their kills, assuming they're good enough to get more kills than deaths. Me for instance, I don't like looting usually. I'm a light looter. I despise dry looters. Yet in an item-based system, if I don't want to be FORCED to waste a lot of time PvMing, questing, and crafting just to PvP I have to a) be an amazing PvP and b) be a big looter.
3) You're ignoring another thing...PvP is not restricted to soloist combat. And even if you are a great PvPer, you might get less kills than deaths simply because UO is one giant gank fest. And now we return to an issue already mentioned above...and that is more power to those who already have it and don't need it. The gankers are going to get more kills since they have the numbers, and since they'll be looting more item sparkly gear, they'll have even more power over their soloist or small group opponents than they already do. Again, great plan eh? Nope.
I am NOT suggesting items play no role. The should play a role. They must play a role. But they should NOT provide the huge advantages they do. They should provide MINOR bonuses that have no significant impact on the outcome of a battle, which should be determined almost entirely by skill. IF they are to provide any great bonus, it shouldn't be "look I'm wearing 500k in gear with 45 hci/dci/40 lmc blah blah and so I have a great advantage", but it should be "look I'm wearing armor and you're not so I have much more defense." Beyond the armor is much > no armor thought though, the best items should provide only minor bonuses over lesser items, and basic gear which can compete with the best gear should be easily obtainable.
It's gotten out of control though. This item crap replaces/nerfs skills and abilities. It forces you to PvM, quest, and craft if you want to compete. And even if you do do all that, usually there are those who do it more or can afford it more or who are better than you and will have much better items than you'll ever run with. It's not enough that there be no blessings (which isn't even the case on Siege). It should also be non-item based. Items should play much less a role than they do and skill much more a role. I've said it before and I'll say it again...The days of the PvPer are gone. Now we have PvMers who PvP.
I don't expect you to understand though. Most who haven't quit are the ones who somehow enjoy UO's failures. I hope DarkFall does it right. It's the last hope.
To comment on the whole "you don't need to PvM...PvP and loot":
1) That condemns anyone but the best PvPers. You're basically saying: "Either waste your time being forced to do stupid, boring pvm, quests, and crafting that you hate and find no enjoyment in...or be an amazing PvP and loot everyone you kill. Wow, what great choices. And we all know everyone has amazing PvP talent and can choose to be an amazing PvPer right? Nope, the majority of people are condemned to the first option, the one they don't find enjoyment in. And since you're right in that "great PvPers" are the ones who can get better gear because they get more kills, what you're basically doing in an item-based free loot system is giving more power to those who already have it (already have it because of skill, but you make them more powerful with the items). Sounds like a good plan eh? Not to me.
2) You force people who don't want to PvM/quest/craft to compete to loot their kills, assuming they're good enough to get more kills than deaths. Me for instance, I don't like looting usually. I'm a light looter. I despise dry looters. Yet in an item-based system, if I don't want to be FORCED to waste a lot of time PvMing, questing, and crafting just to PvP I have to a) be an amazing PvP and b) be a big looter.
3) You're ignoring another thing...PvP is not restricted to soloist combat. And even if you are a great PvPer, you might get less kills than deaths simply because UO is one giant gank fest. And now we return to an issue already mentioned above...and that is more power to those who already have it and don't need it. The gankers are going to get more kills since they have the numbers, and since they'll be looting more item sparkly gear, they'll have even more power over their soloist or small group opponents than they already do. Again, great plan eh? Nope.
I am NOT suggesting items play no role. The should play a role. They must play a role. But they should NOT provide the huge advantages they do. They should provide MINOR bonuses that have no significant impact on the outcome of a battle, which should be determined almost entirely by skill. IF they are to provide any great bonus, it shouldn't be "look I'm wearing 500k in gear with 45 hci/dci/40 lmc blah blah and so I have a great advantage", but it should be "look I'm wearing armor and you're not so I have much more defense." Beyond the armor is much > no armor thought though, the best items should provide only minor bonuses over lesser items, and basic gear which can compete with the best gear should be easily obtainable.
It's gotten out of control though. This item crap replaces/nerfs skills and abilities. It forces you to PvM, quest, and craft if you want to compete. And even if you do do all that, usually there are those who do it more or can afford it more or who are better than you and will have much better items than you'll ever run with. It's not enough that there be no blessings (which isn't even the case on Siege). It should also be non-item based. Items should play much less a role than they do and skill much more a role. I've said it before and I'll say it again...The days of the PvPer are gone. Now we have PvMers who PvP.
I don't expect you to understand though. Most who haven't quit are the ones who somehow enjoy UO's failures. I hope DarkFall does it right. It's the last hope.
kelmo
Old and in the way
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Dread Lord
*blinks* How does a " siege stratics diehard" ruin it, and what do you mean? I am having a heard time understanding this post. Please clarify.
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Masumatek
Guest
I won't say Siege posters and Siege players haven't played a significant role in ruining Siege/keeping it ruined, but not in the way you suggest. We need more people posting asking the devs for change, not less. I don't see any reason why we should settle for a broken shard.
What many Siege posters and players have done to hurt Siege though is be against change or support the wrong change. It looks like more are coming around though, which is good. We have to be careful who we blame. Some say everything is the dev's fault. Imo our current situation is half the dev's fault, and half our own.
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Joyous2K
Guest
What about teh diahards hoblity hoobla did you not understand? That is the problem with you siegers. You all speak fancy english and think your pee aint green.