Change Monster Curse Back Devs!!!!

[Still Frame]

What "makes no sense" is why it wasnt in pvm in the first place! Paragon Balrons will never be all that scary no matter what your on. Dexer, tamer, archer, mage they going to stay fairly the same even with the little boosts they randomly get.

As for doing spawns it depends, some days lots, some days none. I used to pvp solo back in the day and raid spawns meaning i had to kill all of the people then hold them off while i killed the champ at the same time too bad so sad for you. On gl i dont try and solo spawns much anymore seeing that we have 2-3 zerg guilds but over on drach i can do them whenever. Or chessy or catskills (which i dont play anymore) but soloing a spawn is easy as hell the only one i've never been able to do alone was oaks.

Being down at a 60 instead of a 70 isnt as bad as your making it sound, find a better way to heal and you wont have to cry as much.

As for moonglow i was there and that was nothing, i havent been to cove cuz the moonglow thing was a big enough waste of time but in glow i rarely remember any necro spells ever being casted. Spend a week in fel on a real shard (where do you play?) and tell me once you get used to that if pvm is still hard and unfair.

 

[Connor_Graham]

What "makes no sense" is why it wasnt in pvm in the first place!

It wasn't in PvM because PvM and PvP follow different combat rules. Monsters and players have completely different rules and limitations. It's the failure to recognize this that has caused so much grief over the years when PvP'rs call for nerfs to a playstyle they don't participate in outside of champ spawns.

Paragon Balrons will never be all that scary no matter what your on. Dexer, tamer, archer, mage they going to stay fairly the same even with the little boosts they randomly get.

It is clear from this comment that you haven't fought a paragon Balron any time recently.

As for doing spawns it depends, some days lots, some days none. I used to pvp solo back in the day and raid spawns meaning i had to kill all of the people then hold them off while i killed the champ at the same time too bad so sad for you. On gl i dont try and solo spawns much anymore seeing that we have 2-3 zerg guilds but over on drach i can do them whenever. Or chessy or catskills (which i dont play anymore) but soloing a spawn is easy as hell the only one i've never been able to do alone was oaks.

I solo Ilsh champs, which are harder than any Fel ones for the simple reason there are paragons everywhere, so I'm quite familiar with them.

Being down at a 60 instead of a 70 isnt as bad as your making it sound, find a better way to heal and you wont have to cry as much.

Being at 60 instead of 70 means you're taking a hell of a lot more damage when fighting high end creatures.

The only crying that's going on is coming from your end, complaining about a change that PvM'rs want reverted. PvM is a playstyle you don't participate in and don't care about, so I'm at a loss as to why you would care or even bother to post about it. Not to mention that you obviously don't know as much about it as you're trying to portray, which your paragon Balron comments make abundantly clear. Very few people can solo a paragon Balron, which makes this change even harder on players who are in the "middle class" of PvM'rs, which make up the bulk of PvM'rs to begin with. That "bulk of PvM'rs" are what make up the majority of UO players.

As for moonglow i was there and that was nothing, i havent been to cove cuz the moonglow thing was a big enough waste of time but in glow i rarely remember any necro spells ever being casted.

You obviously weren't there when there were Dark Wisps everywhere. That's all they did was spam necro spells while the Fallen Warrios spammed Flamestrike.

Spend a week in fel on a real shard (where do you play?) and tell me once you get used to that if pvm is still hard and unfair.

I play on Pacific, and no thanks, I had enough of the 12 yr old mentality in the month I tried PvP out. I've seen more maturity at my 4 yr old's daycare.

 

[PlayerSkillFTW]

"Back in the day i used to solo paragon ancient wyrms who no matter what can 1-2 hit you so who really cares about curse lowering resists?"

Paragons didn't exist "back in the day".

"I used to pvp solo back in the day and raid spawns meaning i had to kill all of the people then hold them off while i killed the champ at the same time too bad so sad for you."

Neither did Champ Spawns.
Although, i guess "Back in the day" is different to people based on how long they've been playing. To me, back in the day was Pre-Tram when i was a Perma-Red. "Back in the Day" to you is sometime after Paragons were introduced, which was after AoS.

 

[PlayerSkillFTW]

Yeah, the Curse dropping Max Resists by -10 in PvM is annoying. It's not all that balanced in PvM considering alot of the higher end monster's have a higher base damage than any weapon. Hardest hitting Swordsman wep, the Ornate Axe, has a Base Damage of 18-20. Well, the new Dread Warhorses have a base damage of 20-26. Add their' 500+ STR to the mix, and you're talking about more damage than any player can dish out in a normal hit to another player. Now think of a Great Wyrm. Base Damage of 24-33, they got 600-750 STR, GM-145 Tact. Now that's a ALOT more damage than a player can do in one hit. Plus take into account that they swing once every 1.5 secs while at 120+ Stamina. One reason why the current Curse is unbalanced in PvM, monster's can dish out (and take) alot more damage than a player can.

 

[silent]

Get rid of the nerf.

 

[Wolfthistle]

*equips flame proof suit*

Not that it helped. To figure out what Conner was talking about I went out and tested this change on Paragon Balrons. Testing took place in Blood Dungeon.

Contrary to other's suggestions that monsters don't cast curse that often, I was almost constantly cursed by my opponent. I removed curse, only to have it put back on in seconds - clearly curse was being cast even when i was already cursed, or the AI is now intelligent enough to tell when I remove the curse (which is doubtful). And I'm sorry, despite what anyone says, when I'm constantly cursed, I can't remove it all the time - I need my mana elsewhere or I stand no chance. That said, for the purposes of this test, I removed curse as often as my mana would allow for the first 15 minutes of the third battle - just to test how often curse was actually being cast. I didn't survive that battle by the way.

While I was cursed, the average damage that I was dealt [in a 70/66/70/70/70 suit with max DCI, plus riding an armored swampie (paroxymous - good for 10% - not as good as exceptional armour at 20%, but my swampie armour doesn't fall off in the middle of a hard battle this way)] was 57-69. While uncursed - which didn't happen often enough to get a good test result, but here's what I got anyway - I was hit for about 46-57ish. For those that don't know, balrons deal damage at 50% physical, 25% fire & 25% energy which explains the change when curse hits.

In addition to damage from being hit, mere fireballs were hitting for 22ish damage. Unfortunately, I don't remember what the flamestrikes were, because every time I got hit with them - in conjunction with getting thwacked by a bally fist from my normal attack patterns (jousting) the flamestrikes usually redlined me, and I was running like hell and healing to stay alive instead of noting the damage done... when I wasn't paralyzed and praying that is *grins*. Also noteworthy here is that while I was getting hit by spells from about 2-3 screens away, it's rather hard to judge how far you are from a paragon balron, as they move at about the speed of a freight train.

Also, as stated above, so that people couldn't claim that my para balron was an abnormality, after I killed the first I stood around killing balrons until 2 more spawned (no, not at the same time - and yes, I know one of you would ask me about that) - so my testing is the result of killing 2 para balrons and fighting 3 (yes, also as previously stated, that means that the third one repeatedly kicked my butt).

Average Battle time increased from approximately 17-25 minutes (approximate because I believe this is what I used to do them for, but I didn't write it down cause I didn't know I would need it) to 29 minutes (for my first kill) and 35 minutes (for my second).

Overall, I would say that high end monsters are still do-able (barely) but only with a great deal of luck. In addition, I would say that removing curse with the frequency that it was cast on me is not possible - at least not with a successful outcome to the battle. Therefore, I agree that the nerf needs to be reverted.

Sincerely,

Wolfthistle.

 

[o2bavr6]

I think this all comes down to the dumb changes they made to the Magic Resist skill when AoS came out.... Along with countless other dumb changes.

It would be an easy fix to just make it to where you could have a chance resist it if you had the magic resist skill, depending on how high your skill was.

It is a shame that magic resist isn't needed so much anymore with trapped boxes and potions there to replace their effect, at least in PvP. Although in a room full of spellcasting monsters someone with 0 magic resist can get destroyed pretty fast.

 

[Elbryan Uthador]

About time for a positive change. Paragons are supposed to be the elite high end monster (besides Peerless Bosses). They shouldn't be able to be solo'd and farmed so easily. (Before anyone gets their panties in a wad, yes I can solo Paragon Balrons, and I don't run a gimp archer template).


Learn, adapt, change. Its that simple.

 

[o2bavr6]

About time for a positive change. Paragons are supposed to be the elite high end monster (besides Peerless Bosses). They shouldn't be able to be solo'd and farmed so easily.QUOTE]

Shame the loot on them is so poor that Paragons aren't even worth killing.

I have gone to Chaos in Ilsh to kill the Balrons and Paragon Balrons, and I can say it is a total waste of time, at least as far as loot is concerned.

My mage can just run around in circles with a slayer spellbook and ebolt one to death, although it takes a couple of minutes to kill.

I think that the current loot system is one of the other biggest blunders in this game. There are many high end monsters that have junk for loot. So what is anyones motivation to go kill them? There isn't any, and that is why most dungeons are empty, except for Peerless or Doom Bosses or Champion Bosses.

And in my opinion it's a disgrace the way they have left dungeons to rot like they have. Here's a thought.. instead of new lands, how about just add new monsters the the existing dungeons. Monsters that actualy have decent loot on them... ya know.. to make it worth my effort to even go there.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

"Did you already forget the paragon Balrons that I've mentioned more than once now?

You're also forgetting about archers. Vamp dexxers aren't the only type of warriors around, nor are they the only warrior template."

I don't really see why you bring up parragon balrons I don't consider them high end pvm, pointless pvm would be a more accurate title. I didn't say vamp dexxers are the only type of template around I said they can take more damage than other templates, 110 ninjitsu is enough to kill parragon balrons.

Still waiting for that screenshot of the monsters in the building casting on you.

"You're trying to insult the wrong person when it comes to PvM skills."

Your talking about balrons and lich lords. lol.

"Their scrolled out skills and maxed out armor is not even close a reasonable representation of the average PVMer. "
Average PVMers usually don't understand half of whats said to them, as this thread is showing.

"What "makes no sense" is why it wasnt in pvm in the first place!"
It was supposed to be. It isn't getting changed back as it is now working as intended which is why I'm no longer asking for it to be.

PVPers didn't call for any nerf.

"It is clear from this comment that you haven't fought a paragon Balron any time recently."
I haven't fought any mongbats lately either I still know their not worth it. It's clear from your comments about casting through walls, casting 5 screens, 5 flame strikes between dexxer swings, corpse and curse stacking, lich and balron parragons spawning together somewhere that you don't have the first clue what half of it is about.

"I solo Ilsh champs, which are harder than any Fel ones for the simple reason there are paragons everywhere, so I'm quite familiar with them."
LOL, yes those parragon rat men can be quite the epitome of high end PVM can't they.

"Being at 60 instead of 70 means you're taking a hell of a lot more damage when fighting high end creatures."
Just as well then that from the sound of it you don't fight any.

"Very few people can solo a paragon Balron"
No, very few PVMers can solo a parragon balron.
PVPers could but see no point.

"You obviously weren't there when there were Dark Wisps everywhere. That's all they did was spam necro spells while the Fallen Warrios spammed Flamestrike."
Well to be fair it is hard to be there at a time that didn't exist.

"I play on Pacific, and no thanks, I had enough of the 12 yr old mentality in the month I tried PvP out. I've seen more maturity at my 4 yr old's daycare."
While you were there too, I can well believe it. Rather than learn the game you name call, stomp your feet and post rubbish.

"Curse is unbalanced in PvM, monster's can dish out (and take) alot more damage than a player can."
?! Players can deal more to monsters than monsters can deal back.

"Also noteworthy here is that while I was getting hit by spells from about 2-3 screens away, it's rather hard to judge how far you are from a paragon balron, as they move at about the speed of a freight train."
What you could do is change the update range to 10 everything further than that is then greyed out to you.

 

[Wolfthistle]

I think that the current loot system is one of the other biggest blunders in this game. There are many high end monsters that have junk for loot. So what is anyones motivation to go kill them?

I would agree with this. One thing I noticed when i was killing regular balrons and waiting for the paragons to spawn was that a balron had significantly worse loot than a Dark Wisp at Moonglow... doesn't seem right, eh?

On top of that, I noticed that the paragon balrons only had slightly better loot than the regular balrons. Except for whoever killed the third one that I couldn't kill... Whoever that is, congratulations on getting lots of my enhanced bandages *grins*.

As for why I kill paragon balrons? You're right, its not for the loot - I do it to maintain my Honor level at the third level, Knight of Honor. And if anyone knows an easier way to do that, I'm all ears!

Sincerely,

Wolfthistle

 

[Connor_Graham]

"Still waiting for that screenshot of the monsters in the building casting on you."

I never said monsters in buildings cast anything on me. What I said was monsters when on the other side of a building will still be casting on you even though you've already broken LoS with them.

Try to stay with us here.


"Your talking about balrons and lich lords. lol."

I'm talking about Paragon versions of them. Hardly any comparison to the normal variety. Whether you want to consider them pointless or not, they're still both considered to be high end PvM, moreso the Balron even than the Lich Lords.


"It's clear from your comments about casting through walls, casting 5 screens, 5 flame strikes between dexxer swings, corpse and curse stacking, lich and balron parragons spawning together somewhere that you don't have the first clue what half of it is about."

I think you've got that backwards. Maybe you should actually go out and get some experience about what you seem to think you know so much about, because almost everything you've said is incorrect, no matter how many times you try to say otherwise.



"Well to be fair it is hard to be there at a time that didn't exist."

Then why claim as true something that yet again you were wrong about?


"Rather than learn the game you name call, stomp your feet and post rubbish."

I was there learning it. It was 99% of the other players that were doing the name calling and feet stomping.

As far as posting rubbish, I could print your posts out and use them as compost....


"Just as well then that from the sound of it you don't fight any."

Again....more compost....


"Players can deal more to monsters than monsters can deal back."

Not at the same speed they can't. Not from multiple screens away and after LoS has been broken they can't either. You can't compare how players and monsters deal damage, nor take it since monsters can have thousands of hp's and players can't.


"Just as well then that from the sound of it you don't fight any.

I've got the screenshots to prove my battles. Where are yours? Remember, if you don't have a screenshot, it didn't happen.

"PVPers could but see no point."

Very few PLAYERS could. I've seen PvP'rs get their heads handed to them by things I farm.


It's really apparent that it's a waste of time to try to debate something with people that have no clue how it works, yet seem to think they know everything simply because they PvP.

 

[Connor_Graham]

You can kill Succubi in the Dojo and get to Knight of Honor faster than you can with Balrons.

 

[Wolfthistle]

You can kill Succubi in the Dojo and get to Knight of Honor faster than you can with Balrons.

*smiles*

Thanks Connor. I'll try that!

Sincerely,

Wolfthistle.

 

[ColterDC]

What's really funny about this whole PvP'rs attitude toward the change is that they've been complaining about greater dragons and how they unbalance PvP, yet it's the PvM'rs that have to take them on when they're at full strength.

I don't consider a PvM dragon with stupid AI being at "full strength"

A full strength dragon would be one controlled by a thinking player who also has 400-500 other skill points invested in killing someone. Not to mention a backpack with bolas, potions, petals, etc.

If you think killing the dragons in destard tram are hard. Come to fel sometime and take on an experienced pvper with his fully trained dragon in tow.

 

[ColterDC]

I've seen PvP'rs get their heads handed to them by things I farm.

You're delusional.

PvPers are better at PvM than any Tram only player will ever be.

 

[Wolfthistle]

Wait, I recognize this format...

You're delusional.

Hmm, personal attacks...

PvPers are better at PvM than any Tram only player will ever be.

Inflammatory Statements...

Ooh, I know... It's a troll! Woot! Get out the Troll Slayer!!!!

*smiles and waits for the barrage*

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

"I never said monsters in buildings cast anything on me. What I said was monsters when on the other side of a building will still be casting on you even though you've already broken LoS with them.

Try to stay with us here."
And what was said to you was that they cast the spell before you moved round the corner. Breaking LOS doesn't make any difference. Try to stay with us? lol after the rubbish your posting, yeah right.

"Then why claim as true something that yet again you were wrong about?"
I haven't been wrong about anything, you just don't understand whats said to you. If something casts on you when your 10 tiles away and your running away it'll land when your further away. Thats not the same as 'being cast on 5 screens away'. If that was the case wearing the cloak in the void would have spells being dumped on you from things you can't even see and it is not the case.

"Not at the same speed they can't. Not from multiple screens away and after LoS has been broken they can't either. You can't compare how players and monsters deal damage, nor take it since monsters can have thousands of hp's and players can't."
Players can swing every 1.25s, with melee skill higher than most monsters, with HLD, with slayers, with chivalry & bushido up to 300% DI. No monster can do that. Players can cast an explosion with a slayer book from 10 tiles away run in the opposite direction and still see the damage numbers in the corner of the screen, to the extent you can kill a dark father with it 32,000 hp without taking any damage. You can jump through a dungeon door with a pre cast flame strike last target whatever it is and jump back out again and the damage still lands. Players don't need 1000's of hp theres enough player abilities that everything in the game is soloable, IF you know what your doing.

"I've got the screenshots to prove my battles. Where are yours? Remember, if you don't have a screenshot, it didn't happen."
I don't take screenshots, 'it didn't happen'? what didn't lol? I'm not the one claiming 5 flame strikes thru walls 5 screens away and other rubbish YOU ARE, so post it.

"It's really apparent that it's a waste of time to try to debate something with people that have no clue how it works, yet seem to think they know everything simply because they PvP."
Yes it is, what you don't seem to realise is that your the 'people' that have no clue how it works. You were telling us earlier how corpse skin and curse stacks? From this parragon lich lord that appeared while you were fighting parragon balrons in your parragon fantasy land. Or maybe your just on a freeshard where all this bs really happens?

 

[ColterDC]

Originally Posted by ColterDC
You're delusional.

Hmm, personal attacks...

You mean a personal attack like calling the Dev who made this change a Noob? See the OP for that personal insult that started this thread.

Originally Posted by ColterDC:
PvPers are better at PvM than any Tram only player will ever be.

Inflammatory Statements...

Nope, just a 100% correct fact.

 

[The_Dude_]

HAHAHA this is the funniest thread ive read in a while thanks connor. LORD GOD is right on everything he has said. All your posts on just plain wrong. First you say they cast through walls. Now you say when they have los locked on you they cast through walls. You realize spells arent instant? Thats why people cast exp fs evil omen and they all land pretty much same time?

Also the ignorance in saying tamers fight the dragons full strength is bs. Any tamer who knows anything about this game honors themselves tames the dragon and leaves. Ive tamed over 40 of these things and i have never FOUGHT A SINGLE ONE because as most pvpers do i think outside the box.

You keep bringing up paragon balrons like its some huge accomplishment. There is no reason to fight them its just dumb that you are bringing it up. Kind of like the omg curse and corpse skin thing. They dont stack. You do not test a single thing you just come here whining. LORD GOD and others have tested things and proven you wrong in almost everything you have stated. Yet you still reply. I would think someone who plays PVM as much as you would know simple things but I guess im wrong.

Lets get to the other people complaining about pvpers suits etc. GET BETTER. All you uber pvming hasnt made you any money to buy scrolls? Get armor or weapons? ****ING please. This lame ass excuse might have been acceptable when scrolls were introduced but now its a joke that people are still complaining about it.

One last thing you whine and whine about ea not letting you know about it. How do you think the people with vinecords felt when they turned into sandals instead of ea letting them know so they could try to find some poor sap to buy them at the last moment? They finally fixed curse to do what it its supposed to do. Before it was a bug adapt and get the **** over it.

If you can solo paragon balrons go fight dreadhorn and get more money so u can buy the things you need to balance your stats and you can stop whining.

 

[Connor_Graham]

You're delusional.

PvPers are better at PvM than any Tram only player will ever be.

That would all depend on the player. As I said, I've seen PvP'rs get their heads handed to them by things I farm. Being a PvP'r doesn't automatically make one a good PvM'r.

 

[Connor_Graham]

"And what was said to you was that they cast the spell before you moved round the corner. Breaking LOS doesn't make any difference."

Which was exactly the freaking point, yet you keep arguing it.



What's blatanly obvious here is:

1. PvP'rs saying "there's nothing wrong, deal with it", yet it doesn't affect them.

2. The PvM'rs that this affected want it reverted, in an overwhelming majority no less.

3. If it was reverted, it still wouldn't affect a single Pvp'r, yet they're acting like it would make some huge major change to the game.

That ol' compost heap is getting pretty big. Maybe Kansas needs some fertilizer for the corn fields.....

 

[Connor_Graham]

"You mean a personal attack like calling the Dev who made this change a Noob?"

I didn't say anyone was a noob. I said I HOPED it was a noob from Mythic. Personal attacks actually have to target someone specific. You should know that from personal experience.


"I don't consider a PvM dragon with stupid AI being at "full strength""

Unless they've been tamed, they're at "full strength". What you consider and what is fact are 2 different things. Tamed dragons' fire breath is not as strong as an untamed one, although I'm fairly sure you knew that and just wanted to play the "superior player cuz I'm a PvP'r" card.


"If you think killing the dragons in destard tram are hard."

I didn't say they were. I said it was the PvP'rs that were complaining about them in PvP.


Anyway, enough of dealing with the drivel and sidetracking the point of the thread, which is to get this change reverted. It's not needed, and was unwanted. All it accomplished was to nerf warriors yet again.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

"yet it doesn't affect them"
Yes it does.

"The PvM'rs that this affected want it reverted"
I wanted it reverted, It isn't being reverted.

"If it was reverted, it still wouldn't affect a single Pvp'r"
Yes it would.

I'd give reasons but your incapable of understanding any.

 

[Connor_Graham]

"Also the ignorance in saying tamers fight the dragons full strength is bs"

I never said tamers fight dragons at full strength. I said PvM'rs did. My statement had nothing to do with taming a creature and everything to do with killing it.


"Ive tamed over 40 of these things and i have never FOUGHT A SINGLE ONE because as most pvpers do i think outside the box."

And I won't fight them either when I'm ready to tame one. It's not just PvP'rs that think outside the box. Again, that's on the player, not the playstyle.


"You keep bringing up paragon balrons like its some huge accomplishment. There is no reason to fight them "

Sure there is. Challenge. They're tough to fight, and take quite a bit of time and experience to kill. Not everything has to drop Crimson Cinctures to be worth fighting.


"They finally fixed curse to do what it its supposed to do. "

That's a matter of opinion, and note that yet again it's a PvP'r that has a differing one.

Surprise surprise.

 

[Connor_Graham]

One other thing.....

Where's the ignore button?

There's a reason I used it before. Now I remember why.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

"That's a matter of opinion, and note that yet again it's a PvP'r that has a differing one."

Do you take counselling for your pvperism?

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

"Where's the ignore button?"

I'd tell you but you wouldn't listen.

"There's a reason I used it before. Now I remember why."

Is it because your ignorant?

 

[The_Dude_]

If you want this challenge that you speak of go threw the red moongate until then your fighting a handicapped ai led monster. Theres absolutely no challenge in fighting the same thing over and over and over. They do the exact same thing time and again. IF you fought a paragon balron 3 years ago guess what its the exact same as it is now.

Fight a player who has instincts reaction time and changes with the times. Im sure its really hard to figure out ok the balron does 80 dmg to me so i cant fall below 80 dmg or i have to run off heal and come back. Wow im blown away by how difficult that was can you teach me your ways.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

I went and fought a parragon balron having not bothered with it for so long.

I was hitting for over 80 damage per swing at 1.25s, I was told it had 3600 hp. That would require 45 swings to kill it (more if it heals at all). 45x1.25 = 56.25s to kill at best. Obviously at best doesn't always happen but two minutes should be a good over estimate as that would assume I miss at least half the time. The HP on the one I fought was 3600, which looking at the hunters guide on stratics is the top end of their hp range, the lowest being 3000.

 

[Connor_Graham]

"If you want this challenge that you speak of go threw the red moongate"

Been there, done that, and hey, I can even get a t-shirt now. =P

What you call a challenge and fun I call a shining example of kindergarten level behavior, which displays how immature grown people can get when they have the anonymity of the internet to protect them.

I just don't get why some people refuse to accept that the majority of UO players don't feel that UO PvP is "da bomb diggity", and won't accept that they've chosen PvM or even crafting for their fun in UO. If you prefer PvP over PvM, more power to ya, but don't think you can look down on a person that's chosen PvM over PvP simply because they made a different choice.

 

[ColterDC]

We all know you're a giant post SE Trammie Connor... No need to remind us with every post.

No T-shirt for you!!

 

[Diggity]

I'm solely a pvmer and I like the change. As some have stated, the reward for fighting critters like paragon balrons lies in the fight itself. If you can't/wont fight "high-end" stuff now because of the curse change, go back to lesser creatures and refine your equipment/template/tactics. Like others, I'm still able to solo the paragon balron, tho it is more challenging than before.

I'm finding the real adjustment is in approach to multiple lesser spellcasting spawn. The extra 30% or so of damage from just multiple liches can add up pretty fast when I'm cursed. In fact, that's how I figured out something changed! Waded into a room of 4 liches as usual, Got cursed. Laughed as usual. Got fire spells dumped on me. Dead. WTF .

So the game got a little more challenging. I say great, bring it on.

 

[Lord Kynd]

"Chivalry lets you remove curse as much as you want and there are the enchanted apples"

To correct this:

Chivalry lets you remove curse IF you have mana to do so and IF you can do so uninterrupted and is no guarantee that you won't just get cursed with the next spell cast, and there are the enchanted apples with a 2 MINUTE timer between uses which is useless in PvM when monsters not only have enormous mana pools unachievable by players, but can also (and do) cast Curse over and over again, and do so regularly, and all at speeds that players are unable to match.

So, you can waste 20~ mana just to be cursed immediately afterward, or eat an apple which might help you for a second or 2 until Curse is cast again.

Forgive me if that doesn't appear to make things "ok".

nothing like having every curse tossed at you also. how come magic resist skill is ineffective against these?
yet the only thing able to para me latly has been the shadowlords.. with gm+ magic resist.

these curse spells aren't the lower level than paralize ?

and while you fixing things,,, 7 flame strikes in a row, no delay for monsters... really needs looked at.

 

[ColterDC]

Are you talking to me?

If I say yes will you promise to never post again?

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

"how come magic resist skill is ineffective against these?"
Curses are not resistable, magic resist affects the duration. Poison and parra are direct spells that can be resisted based on your resist vs the casters magery for poison and eval for parra.

The shadowlords have (I think) 140 mage & eval. (last time I looked) Which is why even at 120 resist you get parrad by them.

 

[Still Frame]

If you want this challenge that you speak of go threw the red moongate until then your fighting a handicapped ai led monster. Theres absolutely no challenge in fighting the same thing over and over and over. They do the exact same thing time and again. IF you fought a paragon balron 3 years ago guess what its the exact same as it is now.

Fight a player who has instincts reaction time and changes with the times. Im sure its really hard to figure out ok the balron does 80 dmg to me so i cant fall below 80 dmg or i have to run off heal and come back. Wow im blown away by how difficult that was can you teach me your ways.

I never thought i would actually agree with you but your right. Pvmr's need to stop crying, the game should be played the same no matter what area of the game your in. There shouldn't even be a tram or ilsh in the first place!

What sounds harder to all you pvmr's, getting parax stuck again on your archer and hiding behind a rock to solo him or chasing down some of these 4/6 guys (hey looks its impossible to keep a curse on them ) The Dude on his own is a very tough kill. A paragon balron or w/e you keep crying about may take longer to kill than a player but i guarantee even with his 80+ damage hits and insane life The Dude will kill you 100X more than that thing ever will.

 

[ColterDC]

Curses are not resistable, magic resist affects the duration.

I believe resist also affects the intensity of the curse. You'll loss less stats the higher your resist is.

 

[Still Frame]

You're right about that. Why should pvmr's get special treatment over a spell? If i honor myself in fel i dont get anything special. I'm not allowed to peace players unless its area peace which lasts a half second. Can't enemy of one players or discord them. Cant provoke them to attack other players. Where exactly did it become unfair for a pvmr to do anything? Even with 70 phsy The Dude hits for probably close to 50 with a concussion and instead of being dumb and casting stupid little spells between physical attacks he can just hit you with 2 concussions and maybe a mortal and your going to die. Balrons hard hits are only physical which OMG! you can parry/evade the same as a player.

One guy keeps bringing up how hard balrons hit, but curse doesnt affect your physical anyways so who cares? their spells are so insignificant that curse basically has the same affect it did to you before that it lowers your stats..sorry that 6dmg magic arrow is now doing 7 or 8

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

"I believe resist also affects the intensity of the curse. You'll loss less stats the higher your resist is."

Ah yeah, that part of it does your right. The drop to resists doesn't change though it drops the cap to 60 on fire/cold/poison/energy (65 energy on elfs) In general though curses like mind rot, corpse skin etc too it's the duration thats resisted not the effect. So mind rot always does -50 lmc but with resist it lasts a lot shorter.

 

[Wolfthistle]

One guy keeps bringing up how hard balrons hit, but curse doesnt affect your physical anyways so who cares? their spells are so insignificant that curse basically has the same affect it did to you before that it lowers your stats..sorry that 6dmg magic arrow is now doing 7 or 8

Personally, I wouldn't care if balrons did solely physical damage. Unfortunately they don't. They do 50% physical, 25% Energy & 25% Fire. Hence the increase in damage noted if you had bothered to read my post about testing the changes. But, as it was an inexorably long and rather boring post, I personally don't blame you for not reading it *smiles*.

See, not all monsters attack using 100% physical. Ancient wyrms for example attack using 75% physical and 25% fire, while Cu Sidhes attack using 50% cold and 50% energy. There are many other examples of this on other monsters. That's why curse can seriously effect PvM.

I still think it needs to be set back to the way it was.

That said, if it isn't, I'll just do what I always do. Evolve.

Sincerely,

Wolfthistle.

 

[Still Frame]

See now theres a good attitude, and i am very sorry for missing your post theres just too many to read all of them. I only looked for the ones with my quotes in them but even all 60's (65 for elves on energy) isnt that much different than 70s. Yeah it sucks to be cursed and have your resists drop but its not the end of the world. Theirs either ways around it that people seem to keep claiming wont work, if you dont want to try those dont complain that you lost only a few reists. Make an all 60s suit to start with and get better mods on your suit it isnt hard. Max out your dci, get alot of stam and hp inc and you'll do just fine

 

[Basara]

I've got a nice example from just outside the gates of LUNA on Lake Austin... No paragons there....

We have this nice little leftover EM spawn.... 4 rotters, 2 Ancient liches and a skeletal dragon.

Fighting: 1 Ancient lich...

in a 5 second period, I get hit by Curse, Poison, Strangle, Pain Spike, Mind Rot AND Corpse Skin (not in that order); I start running when the first necro spell (pain spike)lands, curse hits as I lose sight of him. the next 3 of these hit after I'm off-screen; one or two of these can be attributed to me possibly being thought within reach, due to client/server interaction times (1 of the two other necro spells and poison). The last necro spell hits me 3-4 screens away, with a witness (my second account on a different computer, where I can see both monitors at once) that is standing on the Luna wall, and sees the AL hasn't moved more than 3 steps since I left. Several seconds later, much longer than even a SC -1 casting time, the Explosion (a third magery spell) lands, after me being well beyond visual before the SECOND magery spell landed, indicating that it was cast well after I was supposedly out of range and LOS.

On top of this, the poison & strangle are perfectly stacked, to prevent curing the poison by spell. Both are doing more damage with the now-lowered resists of the Curse & Corpse Skin.

Now, imagine the same scenario, replacing the mind rot with Vengeful Spirit, which is described in the game AS a curse, but is not removable.


BTW, the new standard for high-end PvM are the greater dragons and Ancient Wyrm - I can more easily solo a paragon balron, than a normal one of these anymore. god help you if it's paragon. For that matter, before they were debuffed, that insane buff to the Dread Spiders a while back was a bit over the top; A paragon Dread Spider, for that super-buff period, had 20-40% more HP than Mephitis, moved lightning quick, had much more potent poison than Mephitis, and cast more, more effective spells.

Those Dreads are about the closest thing to real high-end PvM you PvPers ever encountered, and they got debuffed because they made the spider spawns in Fel unworkable.....

 

[Basara]

but even all 60's (65 for elves on energy) isnt that much different than 70s.

When you have a clue about what you're talking about, please join in - until then, stop talking nonsense....

PvP: Difference between 70 and 60 resist.
Opponent hits for 50 damage, before resists. Difference is 5 points (15 vs 20 damage)

PvM: Difference between 70 and 60 resist.
Creature (Greater dragon, Abscess, several others - take your pick) breathes for 200 points fire damage, before resists. Difference is 20 points (60 points versus 80 points). That's pretty hard on an archer, devastating for a melee warrior.
At the same time, it teleports onto you and takes a melee swing at you that does 150 damage before resists, before you can swing at it - something that PvP does not have as an issue.
70 resist: 30 points damage
60 resist: 45 points damage

That's 90 points of damage without a curse, 110 to 125 points damage if cursed (depending on if the melee attack was physical or not). at 70 resist, that's a probable redline, but survivable - you might even survive the spell it hits you with a second later, before your bandage sets in.

at 60 resist, most people are either dead, or so close that the follow-up spell is 100% sure to finish the job.

That breath/spell starts/teleport to melee/spell-hits routine is a standard part of the PvM AI for the spell-using & breath attack monsters. It's something that a PvP tamer just cannot get his pet to DO on command under any circumstances.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

"On top of this, the poison & strangle are perfectly stacked, to prevent curing the poison by spell."
The starting ticks of strangle are far enough apart that you can cure poison.

"Vengeful Spirit, which is described in the game AS a curse, but is not removable."
Well it was added with AOS, you can remove it with dispel or hit dispel weapons.

"Those Dreads are about the closest thing to real high-end PvM you PvPers ever encountered"
Those spiders were nothing. Pvpers aren't limited to fel dungeons.

"they made the spider spawns in Fel unworkable....."
It was still workable it just took a little bit longer.

 

[Gildar]

I'm not opposed to curse acting the same for both PvP and PvM... however the -10 to resist caps is way too damaging against somebody who is fighting a higher level monster the way things work right now. Other things need to be normalized between PvP and PvM before curse can be made equivalent in both playing grounds, or curse itself needs to be changed (or at the very least, the way magic resist impacts curse needs to be changed).

 

[silent]

I was just training honor on succubus and pretty much stayed cursed the entire time no use in eating an apple or casting remove curse. The only bright side of this is that it's much easier to build a 60s suit than a 70s suit and I may be able to add another arty or more stat bumps to my harness now.

 

[Lord Kynd]

I was just training honor on succubus and pretty much stayed cursed the entire time no use in eating an apple or casting remove curse. The only bright side of this is that it's much easier to build a 60s suit than a 70s suit and I may be able to add another arty or more stat bumps to my harness now.

why not build a 70 suit(or elf) with mods ?

 

[Hecubus]

I think they should continue to nerf warriors and beef tamers for PvM. How about obliterating evade and then create tameable super dragons?

Or I got it...we can give tamers yet another a new tameable during the scenario and silently introduce a curse that hurts all melee characters the most!

Oh wait...they did that already.

People who don't think this nerf is a big deal obviously don't play pure melee characters for high end PvM (which admittedly is a dumb idea, considering the 10 year pattern of blatant and unapologetic treatment of melee characters in PvM, but as this thread has indicated- all 8 of us left are piping up about this one).

I play a pure samurai template. Go ahead and laugh, I laugh also. I'll be here for 9 years in two weeks, during which time my pure warrior classes played the gross underdog to archer/mages, tamer/bard/mages, then parry/mages, tamer/mages, vamp samurais, and again, tamer/mages. I played through all that nonsense- from the magic resist debacle of LBR to the excrutiating item-based class we've become since AoS. Still swinging a sword. Still more obsolete as a tank than the average PvM'ers dragon, black horse, or pet dog. No worries I guess. I was half tempted to file a lawsuit against the KR coverscreen of a warrior parrying a dragon's breath with a shield- that's false advertising EA. (heh, just kidding).

But anyway- that's the pattern. Bruisers take the hits. Those standing behind an EV, dragon, a song on a lute, they take the loot.

Anyway- I know this won't have nearly as many "petitioners" as the next " Tamers need even more stable slots" petition, or the next "Tamers need more..." petition, as they are clearly the upper caste in this game, but this one, unannounced, completely under the table has shelved my main characters, and probably me- from the game for good. An ethereal warrior hitting me for 37 and flamestriking for 14-18 is tough. Now he can hit me for 46 and flamestrike me for 25. It isn't just a matter of apples, or a massive mana pool for remove curses- it's a significant change that means that a "tank" can no longer effectively tank.

So Devs, if you want to revert this based on the 10% of us pure PvM warriors that you haven't already driven away with nerfs or "content", then I applaud you.

If not- at least just come out and admit that you hate the very idea that a warrior should be capable when it comes to war, because from what I've seen over the past 9 years, I can only conclude that this is how you feel. If you want us to hide behind dragons or cast EV's or pluck away from across a fence, then stop trying to tell people that they can play "mighty" warriors in this game, because your handling of those classes has proven otherwise.

Just remove the 10 years of imagery of warriors on your game covers, and swap it out with some images of how you really want your PvM playerbase to be handling the foes of Brittania- a group of untouched adventurers waiting eagerly for the tamed, summoned, or salvo damage to kill an evil creature, which is wearing a "Do not touch the monsters" tee-shirt.

At least that would be more truthful advertising.

So please- revert this last one, or at least just admit that you are really, really biased against people using warriors to tackle big game.

 

[Wolfthistle]

I think they should continue to nerf warriors and beef tamers for PvM. How about obliterating evade and then create tameable super dragons?

Or I got it...we can give tamers yet another a new tameable during the scenario and silently introduce a curse that hurts all melee characters the most!

Oh wait...they did that already.

People who don't think this nerf is a big deal obviously don't play pure melee characters for high end PvM (which admittedly is a dumb idea, considering the 10 year pattern of blatant and unapologetic treatment of melee characters in PvM, but as this thread has indicated- all 8 of us left are piping up about this one).

I play a pure samurai template. Go ahead and laugh, I laugh also. I'll be here for 9 years in two weeks, during which time my pure warrior classes played the gross underdog to archer/mages, tamer/bard/mages, then parry/mages, tamer/mages, vamp samurais, and again, tamer/mages. I played through all that nonsense- from the magic resist debacle of LBR to the excrutiating item-based class we've become since AoS. Still swinging a sword. Still more obsolete as a tank than the average PvM'ers dragon, black horse, or pet dog. No worries I guess. I was half tempted to file a lawsuit against the KR coverscreen of a warrior parrying a dragon's breath with a shield- that's false advertising EA. (heh, just kidding).

But anyway- that's the pattern. Bruisers take the hits. Those standing behind an EV, dragon, a song on a lute, they take the loot.

Anyway- I know this won't have nearly as many "petitioners" as the next " Tamers need even more stable slots" petition, or the next "Tamers need more..." petition, as they are clearly the upper caste in this game, but this one, unannounced, completely under the table has shelved my main characters, and probably me- from the game for good. An ethereal warrior hitting me for 37 and flamestriking for 14-18 is tough. Now he can hit me for 46 and flamestrike me for 25. It isn't just a matter of apples, or a massive mana pool for remove curses- it's a significant change that means that a "tank" can no longer effectively tank.

So Devs, if you want to revert this based on the 10% of us pure PvM warriors that you haven't already driven away with nerfs or "content", then I applaud you.

If not- at least just come out and admit that you hate the very idea that a warrior should be capable when it comes to war, because from what I've seen over the past 9 years, I can only conclude that this is how you feel. If you want us to hide behind dragons or cast EV's or pluck away from across a fence, then stop trying to tell people that they can play "mighty" warriors in this game, because your handling of those classes has proven otherwise.

Just remove the 10 years of imagery of warriors on your game covers, and swap it out with some images of how you really want your PvM playerbase to be handling the foes of Brittania- a group of untouched adventurers waiting eagerly for the tamed, summoned, or salvo damage to kill an evil creature, which is wearing a "Do not touch the monsters" tee-shirt.

At least that would be more truthful advertising.

So please- revert this last one, or at least just admit that you are really, really biased against people using warriors to tackle big game.

Yep, that pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter... except the part about it happening for 9 years - I don't turn 9 until next month.

Well, and I won't be shelving the character either... I've played UO on a melee warrior long enough that I'm getting used to disappointment *winks*

**EDIT**
Oh, and I thought I should also add that this year I joined the darkside and left the absolute "pure" warrior caste to join the gimp of the year template - you all know the one... didn't want to... but was forced into it to stay competitive.

Once again, I'll be forced to change to stay competitive... but I wish I could stay as that pure warrior class. Won't happen. Like I said, I'm used to disappointment.

Sincerely,

Wolfthistle