DEVs make UO consensual PvP only

[Learn Me]

Nope, sorry, someone else.



Nice story though.. try to show some empathy. Walk a mile in those shoes I describe. But you rather start a pissing contest about who is boss in Atlantic PvP scene. Could. Not. Care. Less

Like I said, I could be wrong on who you were assuming your name meant you were pete from f8. Doesn't detract from the point I made about groups doing what they need to. What pissing contest? At no point did I say anything degrading or belittle the playstyle. In fact, I specifically said please don't take this as trash talk.

I would be happy to see you refute any point I made though.

 

[Pawain]

Well, if it's only about egos, let's make powerscrolls insurable Should be no issue when its all about dying rather than someone stealing the rewards of your work.

If that's the case, it's even more silly. Add powerscrolls to Ilsh spawns for a month. You will easily see 50+ players grinding it on Atlantic alone..

But if it's BS' priority to protect the small PvP base and keep pissing of the PvM base, so be it. After all we are all grown ups and can freely decide which games we play and spent our money on.

I also still fail to see why so many PvPers are opposed to the idea of power scrolls outside of PvP zones, since it wouldn't even take any action away from them.

Somebody has hacked Petemages account! He is doing a better job than the OP and Railshot also.

 

[drcossack]

I still think you @OREOGL and @drcossack could show a little more empathy towards those players playing the huge taming aspect of UO, trying to accomplish things themself / doing the actual content themself. Yes, you can buy scrolls, but that is not much playing the actual game content. You can also - perfectly valid - say "accomplishing things" might include learning some PvP. But I think for many people like me, without going endlessly into detail, that's just a non-starter option (at least in respect to UO). We are a bit out of luck there and and get told "git gud".

Fair point. Honestly, a group of tamers can finish a champ spawn fairly quickly. The tamer will have to be careful if there are casting mobs (which is in all of them) or being surrounded. But those are easy to deal with. A bunch of pets with AoE abilities will speed things up quite a bit - one of the Fire Beetles I use has Rune Corruption and Frenzied Whirlwind. While I doubt Rune Corruption can affect more than one target, Frenzied Whirlwind quickly kills anything surrounding it.

I log a decent amount of play time on my tamer, primarily at Shadowguard (When I do it...) or training pets on one of my accounts. Other than places where it would quickly get destroyed/it's just not practical to use pets (Slasher/Stygian Dragon and Dark Father, respectively), I'll do whatever on a tamer without much thought. Is it efficient? Not necessarily - if I want to speed things up, I can bring a sampire as well.

If the tamers on LS were raided by a group of pvp'ers, they'd easily get destroyed. A single person, they could possibly win.

Some say, the assumption of every content to be soloable is flawed. But if that's what you wish for, you gotta fight for it, right?

I'd agree, but eh. Do the limitations of the AI play a part? For sure. As does the RNG. If you make mistakes during pvm encounters, you're not punished too severely - the mechanics of each fight in UO are fairly simple. In some games, they are not - in FF14, one of the current endgame raid bosses (the second one, Demon Chadarnook from FF6) throws multiple attacks at you at once (one such mechanic is a combination Earth/Fire attack, and you have two things to do to avoid dying), and you have to react accordingly. UO doesn't do that.

The bigger problem is the power creep of gear, IMO, which I've said before. The difficulty of monsters hasn't kept pace with what the current playerbase of UO is capable of doing.

 

[Pawain]

If the tamers on LS were raided by a group of pvp'ers, they'd easily get destroyed. A single person, they could possibly win.

We got no SKILLZ!

 

[Lord Frodo]

We're not after the scrolls, we want to fight other players.

This has got to be the funniest thing that I have ever read on Stratics. If as you say you are not after the scrolls then why are you so dead set against Con PvP. Are you afraid that no one will want to play with you? Surly there are enough PvPers around for you to find a fight or is it as we all know that the only way you can find a fight is to raid spawns and kill PvMers.

 

[drcossack]

This has got to be the funniest thing that I have ever read on Stratics. If as you say you are not after the scrolls then why are you so dead set against Con PvP. Are you afraid that no one will want to play with you? Surly there are enough PvPers around for you to find a fight or is it as we all know that the only way you can find a fight is to raid spawns and kill PvMers.

Why are you so dead-set on having scrolls added to Trammel and killing Fel pvp? We all know that's what you really want. You do realize that most of the pvp'ers will ignore people in Fel if they find them pvm'ing in random locations, correct? If they don't ignore the person, it's because they know the person is a pvp'er on a pvm-oriented alt:

About a week ago, I went to Fel Ice dungeon (to farm Karma off of the Ice Demons) when I ran into one of the Reds in the rival guild on LS, a stealth archer. I was on my sampire, and I wasn't sure if he was going to attack me or not. He told me to go ahead, then chatted with me briefly while I was back in the Ice Fiend room - he was wondering what I was doing. He hadn't seen the character before, because I haven't been in the mood to play my sampire recently. Had he known it was me, I wouldn't doubt for a second that he would have attacked me.

If I wanted to "pvp for the sake of pvp", I would go to Yew Gate...but I cannot put into words how much I hate playing there. It's nothing more than a gankfest - back in the day, all of the blues would gank any Red that showed up there. It hasn't changed - there are still some people who do that on Atlantic, but the more common scenario now is OJ's doing it to other OJ's.

When I was actively pvp'ing on Atl, I did a decent amount of spawn fighting against HOT. Their skill varies, which they themselves will tell you - the last time I remember fighting them was at a Harrower in Wrong, when I was on my mystic/weaver mage. I ended up in a 2v1 in the back room of the 2nd level and both of them went down; I dropped shortly after that, because the Harrower ended up aggro'ing me along with a couple people in HOT

Key difference between them and you: They actively participate in pvp and have fun doing it.

You keep bringing up "Consensual pvp" for whatever reason. News flash: You "consent" to pvp every time you go through a red moongate. I did a guild war in Tram once as well. It was 2 years ago, February 9th-February 16th (I took a screenshot at the end of it once my alliance won - the war lasted for a week.) That was a fun week, where we ended up fighting away from the usual spots (Yew and Spawns) - there was a fair amount of fighting in Luna or the area south of it.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Why are you so dead-set on having scrolls added to Trammel and killing Fel pvp?

Didn't you just say "We're not after the scrolls, we want to fight other players." So you are after the scrolls as a lure to get PvMers into Fel so you can kill them because that is the only way you can fight another player, I get it. No othe PvPers want to fight other PvPers they just want to kill PvMers and the only way that can happen is to have a Lure. If PvP was so great then why don't you use the arena system that the devs installed for the PvPers, oh wait I know you have to have an item (lure) to get anybody to fight you. You keep song and dancing around and then you admit that making Fel Con PvP will kill PvP so there really is no true PvP just a few UO players that want to kill other UO players doing a PvM activity. I am sorry that PSs are the only thing that keeps your play style going.

 

[elster]

Fel champ spawns force a certain type of guild to form and give an organized group of mix PVMers / PVPers a reason to form in order to benefit from it the most. When a bunch of guilds are fighting over a harrower or champ spawn , it makes for some of the best, most memorable moments in this game.

Those guilds are not always just PVPers. I've been in quite a few guilds / zerg guilds and it is usually a mix of a couple of competent PVPers, some okay PVPers, PVMers, and PVMers who may not know much about PVP but want a taste. It gives them a reason to be on voice chat and strategize / fight in a situation that requires probably the most amount of teamwork in the game. Everyone has a job to do, and it gets so intense defending it when the raiders come. It is the absolute best content of the game, and i've learned so much about the game rolling with these spawn guilds.

Do some soloers get PKd and lose their scrolls? Sure. But what is being asked of in this thread would destroy this. There would be no reason for those types of guilds to exist. Join a guild. Organize. Enjoy the content that way, the way it's meant to be. You don't have to be great at PVP to do this.

 

[Wing Zero Straight Edge]

Didn't you just say "We're not after the scrolls, we want to fight other players." So you are after the scrolls as a lure to get PvMers into Fel so you can kill them because that is the only way you can fight another player, I get it. No othe PvPers want to fight other PvPers they just want to kill PvMers and the only way that can happen is to have a Lure. If PvP was so great then why don't you use the arena system that the devs installed for the PvPers, oh wait I know you have to have an item (lure) to get anybody to fight you. You keep song and dancing around and then you admit that making Fel Con PvP will kill PvP so there really is no true PvP just a few UO players that want to kill other UO players doing a PvM activity. I am sorry that PSs are the only thing that keeps your play style going.

This is every pvper on Atlantic, they all talk smack in General chat to each other but won't show up to arena or actually hit fel yew gate alone anymore.
All they do is gank pvm players doing champ spawns, when you call them out they'll abuse you and get stupid really quickly about it.

 

[drcossack]

Didn't you just say "We're not after the scrolls, we want to fight other players." So you are after the scrolls as a lure to get PvMers into Fel so you can kill them because that is the only way you can fight another player, I get it. No othe PvPers want to fight other PvPers they just want to kill PvMers and the only way that can happen is to have a Lure. If PvP was so great then why don't you use the arena system that the devs installed for the PvPers, oh wait I know you have to have an item (lure) to get anybody to fight you. You keep song and dancing around and then you admit that making Fel Con PvP will kill PvP so there really is no true PvP just a few UO players that want to kill other UO players doing a PvM activity. I am sorry that PSs are the only thing that keeps your play style going.

Honest question: How have you not been banned for trolling yet? Another question: Why did you DELIBERATELY ignore the rest of my last post? I know why, but I want to hear the answer from you.

This is every pvper on Atlantic, they all talk smack in General chat to each other but won't show up to arena or actually hit fel yew gate alone anymore.

I've done Yew Gate solo forays in the past. It's not the kind of place where you go without a group of people...and it never was. If you go there by yourself, you might as well be wearing a bright neon "Gank me" sign. Because that's exactly what's going to happen.

Fel champ spawns force a certain type of guild to form and give an organized group of mix PVMers / PVPers a reason to form in order to benefit from it the most. When a bunch of guilds are fighting over a harrower or champ spawn , it makes for some of the best, most memorable moments in this game.

Those guilds are not always just PVPers. I've been in quite a few guilds / zerg guilds and it is usually a mix of a couple of competent PVPers, some okay PVPers, PVMers, and PVMers who may not know much about PVP but want a taste. It gives them a reason to be on voice chat and strategize / fight in a situation that requires probably the most amount of teamwork in the game. Everyone has a job to do, and it gets so intense defending it when the raiders come. It is the absolute best content of the game, and i've learned so much about the game rolling with these spawn guilds.

Do some soloers get PKd and lose their scrolls? Sure. But what is being asked of in this thread would destroy this. There would be no reason for those types of guilds to exist. Join a guild. Organize. Enjoy the content that way, the way it's meant to be. You don't have to be great at PVP to do this.

Agreed. When I joined my first pvp guild, I wasn't much of a pvp'er - If I did any prior to that, it was mostly dueling. Before that, I was on dialup (my area didn't have any alternatives until around 2005), so pvp wasn't really an option for me. When I went from a ~300 ping to a ~30 ping, I started pvp'ing more and improved a lot, and not just because of the ping difference (which obviously helped.)

Back then, one of the Oaks spawns I did was when I was on my tamer (because being Red for that one SUCKS), when a couple other guilds showed up, for a 3-way fight. In more recent times, there was the Atl Harrower I mentioned earlier, the guild war on LS, and a few other fights.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Honest question: How have you not been banned for trolling yet? Another question: Why did you DELIBERATELY ignore the rest of my last post? I know why, but I want to hear the answer from you.

Trolling, please tell me what I said would be considered trolling when I replied to you statement with the truth and we all know it. As to the rest of your statement it was more of the same trying to support or back track your first statement. Thank you for at least admitting that the only thing keeping your version of PvP alive is the lure of PSs at the champ spawns.

 

[drcossack]

Trolling, please tell me what I said would be considered trolling when I replied to you statement with the truth and we all know it. As to the rest of your statement it was more of the same trying to support or back track your first statement. Thank you for at least admitting that the only thing keeping your version of PvP alive is the lure of PSs at the champ spawns.

That's not what I said. At all. I will pvp without the "carrot on a stick" as a reward. As will everyone else that pvp's. But that doesn't mean we're opposed to fighting over a reward. Take multiplayer Goldeneye from back in the day, on the Nintendo 64. While that had various multiplayer rules (I believe one was Capture the Flag), the main objective was just to kill everyone else - you could do timed games, certain # of kills, etc. Funnily enough, that's EXACTLY what pvp'ers try to do in UO: kill other players who are capable of fighting back. We don't like to kill PvM'ers, because it's not a challenge.

 

[railshot]

We don't like to kill PvM'ers, because it's not a challenge.

Yep, I bet you really have to force yourself to do it over and over. This is even better than the "We're not after the scrolls" comment.

 

[Lord Frodo]

That's not what I said. At all. I will pvp without the "carrot on a stick" as a reward. As will everyone else that pvp's. But that doesn't mean we're opposed to fighting over a reward. Take multiplayer Goldeneye from back in the day, on the Nintendo 64. While that had various multiplayer rules (I believe one was Capture the Flag), the main objective was just to kill everyone else - you could do timed games, certain # of kills, etc. Funnily enough, that's EXACTLY what pvp'ers try to do in UO: kill other players who are capable of fighting back. We don't like to kill PvM'ers, because it's not a challenge.

OK So then again how would allowing PSs in Tram or UO going Con PvP as I suggested kill PvP because according to your statement now they are no longer required to attack players to Fel so you may PvP because you do not kill PvMers. So then were all your posts before this one nothing but trolls just like you tried to accuse me of.

 

[OREOGL]

That's not what I said. At all. I will pvp without the "carrot on a stick" as a reward. As will everyone else that pvp's. But that doesn't mean we're opposed to fighting over a reward. Take multiplayer Goldeneye from back in the day, on the Nintendo 64. While that had various multiplayer rules (I believe one was Capture the Flag), the main objective was just to kill everyone else - you could do timed games, certain # of kills, etc. Funnily enough, that's EXACTLY what pvp'ers try to do in UO: kill other players who are capable of fighting back. We don't like to kill PvM'ers, because it's not a challenge.

Proximity mines for the win!

 

[OREOGL]

Yep, I bet you really have to force yourself to do it over and over. This is even better than the "We're not after the scrolls" comment.

I think we all can agree to the fact that if you step in fel you accept the ruleset and you may be attacked.

 

[OREOGL]

OK So then again how would allowing PSs in Tram or UO going Con PvP as I suggested kill PvP because according to your statement now they are no longer required to attack players to Fel so you may PvP because you do not kill PvMers. So then were all your posts before this one nothing but trolls just like you tried to accuse me of.

Please see the other 5 pages of the thread for this explanation.

 

[OREOGL]

Just going to leave this here.

 

[Pawain]

Yep, I bet you really have to force yourself to do it over and over. This is even better than the "We're not after the scrolls" comment.

The bad thing about the arguments is Cossack does like to PvP. If he wants scrolls he will go alone to a secluded spawn or go with friends and get them. He goes to community events if he wants to do the thing they are doing. We see him in Doom, he does Zippy, he does the roof.

He does want to PvP against good players. When he is fighting others you can tell he is having a lot of fun. (he talks in chat) He does the things that are fun for him.

He is a bad representative for a Pker. The things he says here are true for him.

 

[railshot]

The bad thing about the arguments is Cossack does like to PvP. If he wants scrolls he will go alone to a secluded spawn or go with friends and get them. He goes to community events if he wants to do the thing they are doing. We see him in Doom, he does Zippy, he does the roof.

He does want to PvP against good players. When he is fighting others you can tell he is having a lot of fun. (he talks in chat) He does the things that are fun for him.

He is a bad representative for a Pker. The things he says here are true for him.

Of course, nothing is in black and white, an Cossack is one of the more reasonable opponents in this topic. However, his personal experience, and anyone else's, and mine is just anecdotal evidence that may or may not be true, and may colored by personal biases. It does not necessarily reflect the state of things as a whole.
There are two things that I do see as not anecdotal and that ARE reflective of the state of things in the game: 1) Movement of prices of scrolls; 2) Unanimous opposition of PvPers to making scrolls available to PvMers. These two, IMO are easily checked and mostly undisputed facts. The first fact is clear evidence that supply of the scrolls is not being allowed to keep with demand. The second makes any claims like "this is about fighting a worthy opponent and not about gold or scrolls" laughable.

Again, this is possibly not true for Cossack, but it seems to be true for the vast majority of PvPers, and ultimately that is what matters.

 

[drcossack]

Yep, I bet you really have to force yourself to do it over and over. This is even better than the "We're not after the scrolls" comment.

List of places I will pvp in:
Yew Gate (as much as I hate it)
Spawns
Random dungeons
random overworld places
vvv towns
Tram ruleset facets during a guild war

List of places where I flat-out PK pvm'ers:

There have been TWO instances since I came back in 2014 where I just killed another player for no reason. One was the other night, some random guy in Ice Dungeon (and only because he ran at the sight of me the first time he saw me, back when my character was Red. I wasn't going to attack him at all that time, but I have a long memory, and well...) and the other was at a t2a champ spawn, just because I felt like it. If there's any "PK'ing" beyond that, it's guys that I know are afk farming, but that's hardly the same thing...and they were pvp'ers.

OK So then again how would allowing PSs in Tram or UO going Con PvP as I suggested kill PvP because according to your statement now they are no longer required to attack players to Fel so you may PvP because you do not kill PvMers. So then were all your posts before this one nothing but trolls just like you tried to accuse me of.

Here I go again, repeating myself:

Do you have ANY idea how much exclusive content Fel has received since the Fel/Tram split?

Here's the list (excluding anything that happened with the now-defunct factions):

1) Powerscrolls. That was added with what, Publish 16? We're coming up on Publish 100.
2) Abyssal Infernal and Primeval Lich.
3) VVV.

What exclusive content has Trammel been given? Off the top of my head, excluding all of the land masses:

1) Exodus
2) Shadowguard
3) Tram Despise
4) Underwater boss
5) Doom
6) The ENTIRE Stygian Abyss dungeon - Medusa, Slasher, Stygian Dragon.
7) The Titan town invasions from a couple months ago.
8) EM Events. You'll occasionally get an event in Fel, but they are very few and far between.
9) Some Tram-ruleset exclusive Champ Spawns and Peerless: Twisted Weald, Bedlam, Interred Grizzle, Labyrinth, Tokuno champ

Are you getting the imbalance in content yet?

So you want to remove the ONLY worthwhile exclusive content Fel has and put it in Tram? On the surface, it's not necessarily a bad idea...until you take a few things into consideration:

1) Trammel already HAS almost everything in this game, with "Endgame" content that's far more profitable than a Champ Spawn.
2) Champ spawn fighting is fun. You'd know this if you actually pvp'd.
3) Tram champ spawns would kill the market for Powerscrolls. Plus there'd be people scripting it. If it involves "consensual" pvp even in Tram with an on/off switch, people would have it set to "I do not consent to pvp" so they can farm without consequence.
4) Who do you think farms all of those Shadowguard drops, high-end loot pieces, and scrolls? The pvp'ers do. I've done various things with the pvm'ers on LS, and they will tell you the same thing I'm about to: They are nowhere near as efficient as my guildmates and I are. We're very familiar with our templates, have done a lot of content together, and know the mechanics of everything. All of that allows us to do the content more quickly, giving us a greater amount of corpse loot and backpack drops/chances at them.

I'll bring up the guys who I ran into afk'ing the Fel Blackthorn & Hythloth Balrons once again. I wasn't the only one that killed them. Sure, some of the motivation was partially because I didn't like the guy that was farming Blackthorn. They were pvp'ers, to be sure, but if you're dumb enough to afk farm in Fel, don't be surprised when it comes back to bite you in the ***.

 

[OREOGL]

Of course, nothing is in black and white, an Cossack is one of the more reasonable opponents in this topic. However, his personal experience, and anyone else's, and mine is just anecdotal evidence that may or may not be true, and may colored by personal biases. It does not necessarily reflect the state of things as a whole.
There are two things that I do see as not anecdotal and that ARE reflective of the state of things in the game: 1) Movement of prices of scrolls; 2) Unanimous opposition of PvPers to making scrolls available to PvMers. These two, IMO are easily checked and mostly undisputed facts. The first fact is clear evidence that supply of the scrolls is not being allowed to keep with demand. The second makes any claims like "this is about fighting a worthy opponent and not about gold or scrolls" laughable.

Again, this is possibly not true for Cossack, but it seems to be true for the vast majority of PvPers, and ultimately that is what matters.

Arguably your prices must be anecdotal or supply is available on demand.

Even in Atlantic right now prices are around what I was selling them for a year ago on Great Lakes.

On atl, 25m for 120 Margery, 7m for 120 taming and there were several of each available.

 

[drcossack]

Of course, nothing is in black and white, an Cossack is one of the more reasonable opponents in this topic. However, his personal experience, and anyone else's, and mine is just anecdotal evidence that may or may not be true, and may colored by personal biases. It does not necessarily reflect the state of things as a whole.
There are two things that I do see as not anecdotal and that ARE reflective of the state of things in the game: 1) Movement of prices of scrolls; 2) Unanimous opposition of PvPers to making scrolls available to PvMers. These two, IMO are easily checked and mostly undisputed facts. The first fact is clear evidence that supply of the scrolls is not being allowed to keep with demand. The second makes any claims like "this is about fighting a worthy opponent and not about gold or scrolls" laughable.

Again, this is possibly not true for Cossack, but it seems to be true for the vast majority of PvPers, and ultimately that is what matters.

Do you know how rare 120's are? While it's true I have a decent amount on LS & Atl (some good, some not so good), they were stockpiled over several spawns. btw, @OREOGL and @Learn Me have said the same things.

Unanimous opposition of scrolls being available to PvM'ers? Umm, what? They're ALREADY available for you. If you choose not to go get them for yourself, it's not the pvp'ers fault.

 

[railshot]

Arguably your prices must be anecdotal or supply is available on demand.

Even in Atlantic right now prices are around what I was selling them for a year ago on Great Lakes.

On atl, 25m for 120 Margery, 7m for 120 taming and there were several of each available.

Magery was insanely expensive to start with, and Taming you cannot put on pets. How about
Wrestling, Parry, Meditation, Focus, Chiv, etc. ? The bulk of the scrolls that were reasonably priced prior to the taming revamp went up by huge amounts, sometimes by an order of magnitude or more.

 

[railshot]

Do you know how rare 120's are?

The rarity of the 120 drops has not increased with the pet publish. In a market where supply is unrestricted, you'd see everyone and their mother farming them to benefit from the insane prices. Which would bring the prices down. Not what we see here, is it?

Unanimous opposition of scrolls being available to PvM'ers? Umm, what? They're ALREADY available for you. If you choose not to go get them for yourself, it's not the pvp'ers fault.

They are available to PvPers. If you chose not to PvP or is unable to do so, you are SOL. But you already knew that; just felt like trolling a bit, right?

 

[OREOGL]

Magery was insanely expensive to start with, and Taming you cannot put on pets. How about
Wrestling, Parry, Meditation, Focus, Chiv, etc. ? The bulk of the scrolls that were reasonably priced prior to the taming revamp went up by huge amounts, sometimes by an order of magnitude or more.

All seem to be 25-30M for the select parry, med, focus, chiv is 5m with multiple available for each.

So there is that, but hardly seems to be a supply issue. Appears demand is fueling price increase. At least for Atlantic.

The couple other shards for the same scroll were lower anywhere from 20-23.

 

[drcossack]

They are available to PvPers. If you chose not to PvP or is unable to do so, you are SOL. But you already knew that; just felt like trolling a bit, right?

Again, this is incorrect, as the earlier screenshot posted indicated...and others have said the same damn thing Oreo did (coincidentally, everyone saying that has been in the same guild at one time or another...but that has nothing to do with our similar viewpoint on the issue.) Those guys did 15 spawns on GL without a raid, just as I have done a few Harrowers in the past without anyone showing up. I would guess the people he talked to are pvm'ers.

There are plenty of other stories like that, for those who choose to do spawns in Fel. You seem to think it's still 2003-2005ish UO, where the PK'ing of "Trammies" at spawns happened quite often. I would know, I used to do it (although they were also in pvp guilds - all of the "Zerg" guilds back then were a pretty solid mix of pvm'ers and pvp'ers of varying skill.) Did I enjoy it? Somewhat...but I didn't go out of my way to target them specifically; they just happened to be there and they were in a rival guild, so they ended up getting killed. One of the LS guilds from back then had their own forum, where smack talk happened. None of the pvm'ers complained about dying.

Granted, that was over a decade ago, and some players aren't as fast or as skilled as they used to be, so they don't pvp anymore. I get that. It's their choice not to go to Fel. But you don't see people like that complaining about what goes on in Fel, even in-game (outside some comments about gen chat from time to time.) They let us do our own thing, just as we let them do theirs. If either party has something the other needs, we'll provide it. You are part of a VERY vocal minority that wants to have your cake and eat it too (powerscrolls in Tram.) It will never happen, for reasons already outlined (repeatedly) in this thread.

I have no interest in anything related to deco in this game, so I do not go into those threads and post the same gripes over and over. I don't even READ those threads. Why is it that the people who don't pvp (or go to Fel at all) feel the need to weigh in on it so much? (generally speaking, anyway. In this and other pvp-related threads, there have been some good ideas brought up by people who don't pvp.)

 

[OREOGL]

Again, this is incorrect, as the earlier screenshot posted indicated...and others have said the same damn thing Oreo did (coincidentally, everyone saying that has been in the same guild at one time or another...but that has nothing to do with our similar viewpoint on the issue.) Those guys did 15 spawns on GL without a raid, just as I have done a few Harrowers in the past without anyone showing up. I would guess the people he talked to are pvm'ers.

There are plenty of other stories like that, for those who choose to do spawns in Fel. You seem to think it's still 2003-2005ish UO, where the PK'ing of "Trammies" at spawns happened quite often. I would know, I used to do it (although they were also in pvp guilds - all of the "Zerg" guilds back then were a pretty solid mix of pvm'ers and pvp'ers of varying skill.) Did I enjoy it? Somewhat...but I didn't go out of my way to target them specifically; they just happened to be there and they were in a rival guild, so they ended up getting killed. One of the LS guilds from back then had their own forum, where smack talk happened. None of the pvm'ers complained about dying.

Granted, that was over a decade ago, and some players aren't as fast or as skilled as they used to be, so they don't pvp anymore. I get that. It's their choice not to go to Fel. But you don't see people like that complaining about what goes on in Fel, even in-game (outside some comments about gen chat from time to time.) They let us do our own thing, just as we let them do theirs. If either party has something the other needs, we'll provide it. You are part of a VERY vocal minority that wants to have your cake and eat it too (powerscrolls in Tram.) It will never happen, for reasons already outlined (repeatedly) in this thread.

I have no interest in anything related to deco in this game, so I do not go into those threads and post the same gripes over and over. I don't even READ those threads. Why is it that the people who don't pvp (or go to Fel at all) feel the need to weigh in on it so much? (generally speaking, anyway. In this and other pvp-related threads, there have been some good ideas brought up by people who don't pvp.)

Yeah, later I checked destard, a blue was freely farming a rikktor. I opted to stick around to see if anyone raided. Nada.

None of them where pvpers.

 

[railshot]

So there is that, but hardly seems to be a supply issue. Appears demand is fueling price increase. At least for Atlantic.

I don't know how else I can explain it. Demand can only cause the price increase if supply is restricted. Basic economics.

 

[OREOGL]

I don't know how else I can explain it. Demand can only cause the price increase if supply is restricted. Basic economics.

This is a simplistic way to look at it. But the demand has affected only a few scrolls, not the supply in general.

You don't keep prices higher by throwing in dozens of the same scroll, you can take OPEC and oil as an example of this.

Earlier I found 4 120 meds on one
Character, if I wanted to max price I'm not going to throw them all on at the same time.

I think you get the point. Hence the reason why there's available scrolls despite being higher priced.

ETA: despite all this you can still farm these yourself making the argument irrelevant.

 

[Lord Frodo]

List of places I will pvp in:
Yew Gate (as much as I hate it)
Spawns
Random dungeons
random overworld places
vvv towns
Tram ruleset facets during a guild war

List of places where I flat-out PK pvm'ers:

There have been TWO instances since I came back in 2014 where I just killed another player for no reason. One was the other night, some random guy in Ice Dungeon (and only because he ran at the sight of me the first time he saw me, back when my character was Red. I wasn't going to attack him at all that time, but I have a long memory, and well...) and the other was at a t2a champ spawn, just because I felt like it. If there's any "PK'ing" beyond that, it's guys that I know are afk farming, but that's hardly the same thing...and they were pvp'ers.



Here I go again, repeating myself:



So you want to remove the ONLY worthwhile exclusive content Fel has and put it in Tram? On the surface, it's not necessarily a bad idea...until you take a few things into consideration:

1) Trammel already HAS almost everything in this game, with "Endgame" content that's far more profitable than a Champ Spawn.
2) Champ spawn fighting is fun. You'd know this if you actually pvp'd.
3) Tram champ spawns would kill the market for Powerscrolls. Plus there'd be people scripting it. If it involves "consensual" pvp even in Tram with an on/off switch, people would have it set to "I do not consent to pvp" so they can farm without consequence.
4) Who do you think farms all of those Shadowguard drops, high-end loot pieces, and scrolls? The pvp'ers do. I've done various things with the pvm'ers on LS, and they will tell you the same thing I'm about to: They are nowhere near as efficient as my guildmates and I are. We're very familiar with our templates, have done a lot of content together, and know the mechanics of everything. All of that allows us to do the content more quickly, giving us a greater amount of corpse loot and backpack drops/chances at them.

I'll bring up the guys who I ran into afk'ing the Fel Blackthorn & Hythloth Balrons once again. I wasn't the only one that killed them. Sure, some of the motivation was partially because I didn't like the guy that was farming Blackthorn. They were pvp'ers, to be sure, but if you're dumb enough to afk farm in Fel, don't be surprised when it comes back to bite you in the ***.

Would you please make up your mind and quit flip flopping around.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Please see the other 5 pages of the thread for this explanation.

Maybe you should talk to your boy because his answer keeps going every which way, but good try to try and throw this in my lap when your own PvPer can't keep his answer straight.

 

[OREOGL]

Maybe you should talk to your boy because his answer keeps going every which way, but good try to try and throw this in my lap when your own PvPer can't keep his answer straight.

You can feel free to go back and address my responses to the thread, along with the screenshot I posted.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Just going to leave this here.

Are those power Scrolls, no. We all know what the truth is about PSs and how you make it out that they do not matter and all that but yet when someone suggests that they be added to Tram or Fel goes to a Con PvP rule set boy does the oh no you can't do that you will ruin PvP proving time and time again that the only reason that PvP even exists is so you can kill PvMers no matter what your fellow PvPers say. Why are you so afraid to say the truth, without a lure no one would be there to PvP with you would they.

 

[OREOGL]

Are those power Scrolls, no. We all know what the truth is about PSs and how you make it out that they do not matter and all that but yet when someone suggests that they be added to Tram or Fel goes to a Con PvP rule set boy does the oh no you can't do that you will ruin PvP proving time and time again that the only reason that PvP even exists is so you can kill PvMers no matter what your fellow PvPers say. Why are you so afraid to say the truth, without a lure no one would be there to PvP with you would they.

What are you talking about, that was in fel despise at the champ spawn with the dead coon right in the pic. These were not PVP characters. At a minimum they got 45 power scrolls, 90 if they used protection each time.

 

[drcossack]

Are those power Scrolls, no. We all know what the truth is about PSs and how you make it out that they do not matter and all that but yet when someone suggests that they be added to Tram or Fel goes to a Con PvP rule set boy does the oh no you can't do that you will ruin PvP proving time and time again that the only reason that PvP even exists is so you can kill PvMers no matter what your fellow PvPers say. Why are you so afraid to say the truth, without a lure no one would be there to PvP with you would they.

Bringing up this post once again, since you don't seem to realize how lopsided the exclusive content is in this game. If you do (which wouldn't surprise me), you're purposely ignoring it:

Here's the list (excluding anything that happened with the now-defunct factions):

1) Powerscrolls. That was added with what, Publish 16? We're coming up on Publish 100.
2) Abyssal Infernal and Primeval Lich.
3) VVV.

What exclusive content has Trammel been given? Off the top of my head, excluding all of the land masses:

1) Exodus
2) Shadowguard
3) Tram Despise
4) Underwater boss
5) Doom
6) The ENTIRE Stygian Abyss dungeon - Medusa, Slasher, Stygian Dragon.
7) The Titan town invasions from a couple months ago.
8) EM Events. You'll occasionally get an event in Fel, but they are very few and far between.
9) Some Tram-ruleset exclusive Champ Spawns and Peerless: Twisted Weald, Bedlam, Interred Grizzle, Labyrinth, Tokuno champ

Abyssal Infernal and Primeval Lich aren't really even worth doing - Stealth Cloak from Abyssal and I guess some of the deco or w/e from Primeval. You can do easier spawns for scrolls...and they give you one of the 6 skulls needed to pop a Harrower.

Why do you want to ADD more content to Trammel at the expense of content in Felucca? Because you refuse to go to Fel and farm powerscrolls for yourself, so you want them without any risk whatsoever?

So you stage something to prove what that you can ask your buddies to stay away. You know for a fact that what you are trying is not the norm and if that is the norm then you might as well let the go to Tram too.

Really? That's a staged photo is the best you can come up with? The guy just reactivated his account and likely isn't even in a guild right now.

Multiple people in this thread have said they ignore pvm'ers doing spawns, or help them do it. Do you need several hours of video proof of this happening? Or maybe twitch live streams so you can't accuse us of editing the videos.

 

[Wing Zero Straight Edge]

Why is this post still going? It's getting nowhere. @Captn Norrington

 

[Pawain]

Why is this post still going? It's getting nowhere. @Captn Norrington

 

[OREOGL]

Why is this post still going? It's getting nowhere. @Captn Norrington

It doesn't appear to be hurting anything.

We can have disagreements without locking down a thread.

There's nothing personal against any of these guys, just a difference of opinion.

 

[Picus of Napa]

Conversation is good and this is a good conversation.

 

[Great DC]

The devs already said this is never going to happen on their forums. So it is a pointless conversation to still have on here. Besides most of these people are too hardheaded to take in truthful information about felucca.

 

[drcossack]

Conversation is good and this is a good conversation.

It's not much of a conversation though. The people who actually know what's going on in Fel are talking to people who keep bringing up the same nonsensical arguments, refuse to read posts, and cling to their false narrative about what Fel & pvp actually is.

 

[OREOGL]

It's not much of a conversation though. The people who actually know what's going on in Fel are talking to people who keep bringing up the same nonsensical arguments, refuse to read posts, and cling to their false narrative about what Fel & pvp actually is.

I don't mind the banter, really.

I'd gladly trade them power scrolls in lieu of some better content.

But as it is now, it'd be another blow to pvp.

This and I wish they'd update VVV.
Doesn't really accomplish much. The faction base fights were a blast that could last hours.

 

[railshot]

It's not much of a conversation though. The people who actually know what's going on in Fel are talking to people who keep bringing up the same nonsensical arguments, refuse to read posts, and cling to their false narrative about what Fel & pvp actually is.

And people who bring facts to the argument are talking to people operating in anecdotes and obvious falsehoods.

 

[drcossack]

And people who bring facts to the argument are talking to people operating in anecdotes and obvious falsehoods.

Anecdotes that are pretty much the norm, which you'd know if you did spawns. The obvious falsehoods are coming from you and Frodo, since you have no idea what goes on in Fel.

 

[King Greg]

And people who bring facts to the argument are talking to people operating in anecdotes and obvious falsehoods.

"Facts"

The entire basis for your arguments is that you cannot do spawns because of pvpers, Meanwhile Players do spawns every single day without being raided. There are probably multiple spawns right now being done without anyone being raided.

Every single other thing you have brought up crumbles after that concept.

 

[railshot]

"Facts"

The entire basis for your arguments is that you cannot do spawns because of pvpers, Meanwhile Players do spawns every single day without being raided. There are probably multiple spawns right now being done without anyone being raided.

Every single other thing you have brought up crumbles after that concept.

My argument is based on change in prices. That is a fact. When the price increase following an increase in demand does not reverse, it may mean only one thing - artificially restricted supply. That is an economic fact. Anything else you want to crumble?

 

[railshot]

The obvious falsehoods are coming from you and Frodo, since you have no idea what goes on in Fel.

Really? These gems are just off the last three pages:

Prices aren't really relevant to the conversation.
We don't like to kill PvM'ers, because it's not a challenge.
We're not after the scrolls.

Every one of those statements is laughably false. You somehow assume that my experience with PvPers in Fel is less valid than how you feel they operate. You dismiss data regarding how UO economy operates as a whole. And then you try to convince me of the three points above, because, according to you, that is how you operate. At best, that is the data based on the sample of 1. At worst it's deceitful.

 

[Luvmylace]

Really? These gems are just off the last three pages:

Prices aren't really relevant to the conversation.
We don't like to kill PvM'ers, because it's not a challenge.
We're not after the scrolls.

Every one of those statements is laughably false. You somehow assume that my experience with PvPers in Fel is less valid than how you feel they operate. You dismiss data regarding how UO economy operates as a whole. And then you try to convince me of the three points above, because, according to you, that is how you operate. At best, that is the data based on the sample of 1. At worst it's deceitful.

Agree totally. work up PVP skills and quit whining

 

[drcossack]

Really? These gems are just off the last three pages:

Prices aren't really relevant to the conversation.
We don't like to kill PvM'ers, because it's not a challenge.
We're not after the scrolls.

Every one of those statements is laughably false. You somehow assume that my experience with PvPers in Fel is less valid than how you feel they operate. You dismiss data regarding how UO economy operates as a whole. And then you try to convince me of the three points above, because, according to you, that is how you operate. At best, that is the data based on the sample of 1. At worst it's deceitful.

1) They aren't. Some prices have gone up (i.e. Wrestling and Tactics), but some are roughly the same as they were prior to the pet revamp.
2) A few other people have said the same thing, and that we'll even help them do spawns/protect the spawn for them/kill whoever raided: Guess all of them are making it up?
3) Every single pvp'er has the chars we pvp with scrolled out, and don't need them unless we want to make alts (in which case, we can either buy the scrolls they need, or dip into our stockpile.)

How are 2 and 3 false when:
1) multiple people have said it?
2) multiple people are able to do spawns without getting raided?
3) Because of #2, they are able to get scrolls for themselves.

But I'll tell you what. If you want scroll prices to go down, I will farm them endlessly for the next month, bind the 110's and 115's, and flood the market so you can get them dirt cheap, since that's what you really want. In return, I want you to do the same in Shadowguard so the market gets flooded with Cameos and I can buy those cheaply.