DEVs make UO consensual PvP only

[Spartan]

Right. Because the only way to enjoy the game is to kill other players.
Oh, and last I checked PvPers are not "everyone else". They are a small minority of players who derive their enjoyment of the game and a lot of gold from exploiting the majority.
Make scrolls available without forcing people to "interact" with PvPers and I'll happily leave you alone.

But you gotta remember ... the PVPers (so far) have stated that both PVM/E and PVP folks can coexist. Right? Sooo, by buying the scrolls, you and I and others are co-existing with them!

<scratches head> So we DO coexist already? What's the big fuss about then?

 

[King Greg]

Right. Because the only way to enjoy the game is to kill other players.

To a lot of players in the game pvp is the only part that is actually Fun. Everything else is just something to do to work towards becoming better at killing other players.

Oh, and last I checked PvPers are not "everyone else". They are a small minority of players who derive their enjoyment of the game and a lot of gold from exploiting the majority.

I'll copy and paste my questions from before so we can be clear on your opinions.

2.What % of Pvp Vs Non Pvp Players do you think play this game.

3.Do you think that certain playstyles should have exclusive content that you can only get through playing that playstyle, or from buying from other players. (Fishing, Treasure maps, Thief, Crafter, Etc)

4.What % of content do you think has been added that is Pvp Exclusive vs content that isn't even available in Fel over the last 15 years.

5. List the content that is Fel Exclusive Vs the Content that you can't do in Fel at all.

6. Do you think #4 and #5 have anything to do with #2

Make scrolls available without forcing people to "interact" with PvPers and I'll happily leave you alone.

That's like saying let me do medusa without gathering keys, let me do the bosses for shadowguard, but don't force me to do the rooms. How dare the dev's force me to do things in the game that I don't like! Pvp Is a part of doing spawns, but the irony here is that you can do a spawn without having to pvp, just the chance.

 

[railshot]

To a lot of players in the game pvp is the only part that is actually Fun. Everything else is just something to do to work towards becoming better at killing other players.

Pardon me if I, as the player being killed, am not sympathetic to their plight.

I'll copy and paste my questions from before so we can be clear on your opinions.

2.What % of Pvp Vs Non Pvp Players do you think play this game.

I am not sure even devs have that number, but it's pretty clear that there are a lot more PvMers out there. If it was not the case, we would not have a problem with dead Felucca.

3.Do you think that certain playstyles should have exclusive content that you can only get through playing that playstyle, or from buying from other players. (Fishing, Treasure maps, Thief, Crafter, Etc)

Not a valid question or comparison. Fishing, t-maps, thieving are non-competitive. What is more important, it is impossible for players to prevent others from fishing, crafting or t-mapping. And even more important, none of what you listed generates items as essential to the game as powerscrolls.

4.What % of content do you think has been added that is Pvp Exclusive vs content that isn't even available in Fel over the last 15 years.

And another false premise. There is no content in UO, none, zip, nada, that is not accessible to PvPers. Yet there is very important content that is not available to PvMers.

5. List the content that is Fel Exclusive Vs the Content that you can't do in Fel at all.

6. Do you think #4 and #5 have anything to do with #2

Nope, they don't. Fel has the most lucrative content there is - powerscrolls. After the pet revamp. prices on some scrolls went up by 2 orders of magnitude. And yet, Fel is still dead. And if the likes of you get your way - say Devs make all content "Fel exclusive", UO will be dead within months. This has happened in multiple open world PvP games before. PvMers get fed up with griefing and leave. PvPers find that fighting each other is not nearly as fun. All facets turn into what Fel is now.

That's like saying let me do medusa without gathering keys, let me do the bosses for shadowguard, but don't force me to do the rooms. How dare the dev's force me to do things in the game that I don't like! Pvp Is a part of doing spawns, but the irony here is that you can do a spawn without having to pvp, just the chance.

And, faulty comparisons continue. Power scroll equivalent of Sharowguard's rooms is the spawn. Nobody is actively preventing you from doing rooms or gathering keys.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

Railshot, you are another one who's view is so blinkered you can see so little either side.

The most lucrative content is in Trammel, always has been.
My guild is a pure powerscroll guild, it's pretty much all we do, we are possibly the best powerscroll farming guild in existence yet we make nothing off powerscrolls almost.
120's are not so many - then we use them, give them to our new players etc.

My guildmates have made 1 Plat per week off roof when they want to.
They go to Trammel when they want to make gold, there are so many ways to do it, you just need to use your imagination and experience.
I refuse to go to Trammel, and don't make gold.

You seem to be adding the easy-mode gold farming abilities of Trammel into your perceived list of negatives against PvPers to paint them in the worst possible light.
Let's nail that one on the head.
In Trammel, you sit and gold-farm/do instances all day long, or can script - you may not, many Trammel players do - it's them making all the gold, not the PvPers.
In Felucca, you cannot do this so easily.
Direct your anger at the Trammies, like I do, for playing such an easy, non-competitive system that brings distortion everywhere.

No competition in Trammel?
I'm afraid you have again misunderstood the facet you play on.
There is no open honest aggressive competition, instead it is behind the scenes, in the shadows passive aggressive competition - possibly the worst character trait and very unhealthy for you.
Have you seen the gold sellers, the traders, all ripping players off, then selling really high?
All they care about is greed, and the gold in their bank accounts, they are competing for gold, and ruining your game experience at the same time.
Start directing your anger in the right direction.

By the way, you have no idea how busy Felucca is, you have never been there, I had another really active night with tons of players last night, every night this week.
I've never seen any activity in Trammel that even compares to the numbers and activity levels we have.
Maybe the odd event once a month.
What's the most you get in Trammel? 10 Players in a party somewhere? 20 sat in Luna?
We'll have to start videoing some of our evenings for you, Fact is possibly the only way to get through your rigid stereotypes built on false propaganda.


So, in summary.

• Powerscrolls are not the most lucrative item ingame. Easymode Trammel Instance items are - 5 cameo's in a week = 1 Plat. You could fully scroll 4 pets for this. The truth is Trammies have it all on a plate, yet are too lazy to even take the goodies off the silver plate that has been made for them.
• Felucca is far busier than you realise, maybe far more active than Trammel - I understand I will have to get you video's for this, you will never see it yourself.
• PvPers are not the ones sucking up all the gold - Trammel Traders are.
• PvPers are not the ones collecting all the resources - Trammel Scripters are.

So please, stop spewing rubbish.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

And, faulty comparisons continue. Power scroll equivalent of Sharowguard's rooms is the spawn. Nobody is actively preventing you from doing rooms or gathering keys.

It's in Trammel?

That is preventing me, I will not step through those blue moongates, for fear of being tainted by mental weakness, moral depravation, greed, corruption, and forgetting how to do things for myself.

You are scared of losing a couple of items going to Felucca, I am scared of losing my soul going to Trammel...

I'd say my issue is far more serious than yours.

 

[Max Blackoak]

Spoken like a true PvM killer because people skilled in true PvP mopped you up. PvPers fought other PvPers honing their own skills and helping like minded PvPers hone their skills they did not go around expecting a PvP fight from a char that was geared up to fight monsters. But we all know whay type of so called PvPer killed PvMers don't we.

please read what I posted again thoroughly and you will see that your answer has nothing to do with my points made. I have a feeling that it is useless to discuss this with you though since it seems that you like to turn this into a "you only said this because you are bad at that" thread which is not what I had in mind when posting.

 

[King Greg]

Pardon me if I, as the player being killed, am not sympathetic to their plight.

Like they feel no pity to your plight of the cost of powerscrolls. Fair enough.

I am not sure even devs have that number, but it's pretty clear that there are a lot more PvMers out there. If it was not the case, we would not have a problem with dead Felucca.

"Fel is dead" Got it.

Not a valid question or comparison. Fishing, t-maps, thieving are non-competitive. What is more important, it is impossible for players to prevent others from fishing, crafting or t-mapping. And even more important, none of what you listed generates items as essential to the game as powerscrolls.

"Competitive content, unlike every other content in the game, should not have rewards that are beneficial to other parts of the game. Powerscrolls are the most essential item in the game, more than gear, pets, and anything else you can only get in tram. So great in fact that you can't even compare them to anything else in the game. " Got it

And another false premise. There is no content in UO, none, zip, nada, that is not accessible to PvPers. Yet there is very important content that is not available to PvMers.

"Pvmers cannot get 120's without having to fight another player. Spawns are not available/accessible to Pvmers. " Got it.

Nope, they don't. Fel has the most lucrative content there is - powerscrolls. After the pet revamp. prices on some scrolls went up by 2 orders of magnitude. And yet, Fel is still dead. And if the likes of you get your way - say Devs make all content "Fel exclusive", UO will be dead within months. This has happened in multiple open world PvP games before. PvMers get fed up with griefing and leave. PvPers find that fighting each other is not nearly as fun. All facets turn into what Fel is now.

"Fel is dead, but it has nothing to do with almost no content being added. Spawns are the most lucrative part of the game. Pvpers want all content in the game to be fel exclusive, and pvpers hate fighting other pvpers" Got it.

And, faulty comparisons continue. Power scroll equivalent of Sharowguard's rooms is the spawn. Nobody is actively preventing you from doing rooms or gathering keys.

You are right, my bad on that one. You actually HAVE to do the rooms to do shadowguard. You don't HAVE To pvp to finish a spawn. So that is a Faulty Comparison.

I'm not here to reason with you. Just here to show the attitude towards fel/pvp of the players who support taking one of the only fel exclusive content away from them. Not that it's really necessary, since their general bias is blatant.

 

[Spartan]

This thread proves a point: PVP and PVM players cannot coexist as has been touted by several.

How do I know? Just look at the p**sing contest going on between a few who refuse to acknowledge that SOMEONE on the "other side" might have a point. You folks are really, really silly. If you cannot "coexist" here what makes you think ingame is going to be any different? Get a grip.

 

[Pawain]

This thread proves a point: PVP and PVM players cannot coexist as has been touted by several.

How do I know? Just look at the p**sing contest going on between a few who refuse to acknowledge that SOMEONE on the "other side" might have a point. You folks are really, really silly. If you cannot "coexist" here what makes you think ingame is going to be any different? Get a grip.

Depends on the Shard and players. It does coexist often when the participants want it to. I wont name names so they wont lose their Street Cred.

 

[Picus of Napa]

This thread proves a point: PVM and PVP players cannot coexist as has been touted by several.

How do I know? The PVP players are fine with the PVM players but the PVM players are never fine with the PVP players. Get a grip.

Fixed that for ya.

 

[railshot]

Fixed that for ya.

Yep. Wolves have no problems whatsoever with sheep. Sheep are the ones always objecting to coexisting with wolves for some trumped up reasons.

 

[Picus of Napa]

Every player left in UO who truelly enjoy's PVP started as "sheep". We all lost fights, spawns and items but that first win proved it can be done.

The choice to be a sheep is up to you. IRL wolfdom is far better than being a sheep, same is the case in UO.

 

[Thoronnar]

Why do people keep saying that Fel is dead? the people saying that clearly NEVER go to Fel...

- Yesterday I did 5 champ spawns with my guild, got raided 3 times by 2 different guilds, and raided 2 times. That was playing only a few hours at night.
- When scouting a dungeon I saw a noob killing monsters. I stopped and asked him if he knew he was in fel, and that other players could kill him there. His answer? he said he has been doing it for the past weeks for the extra luck, and that several players have passed by him without even caring. He did get kill once, but he said he didn't care because he had insurance. That's a great attitude, I said, and left.

So yes. For your information, there are a lot of people playing in fel, and there is something going on at all times. And it could be even more active and fun if devs put some effort and acknowledge PvP is a huge part of UO.

Doing the same thing over and over again for years gets old. We want devs to listen to us and improve our game just like they hear trammies cries every day and add content for them. Every freaking year.

 

[Learn Me]

Suffered through reading the first page of this topic and skipped the next three, so forgive me if I'm making points already presented.

UO was a fel only game. Steal items, steal houses, kill anyone outside of guard zone. Naturally, people that wanted to play UO had to at least become competent at pvp. Then you are given tram, ish, tokuno islands, malas, stygian abyss, and eodon as safe places to get every single resource and item you could possibly need. Your suggestion now is that because there is ONE item you can't get (power scrolls), you should now have your own ENTIRE server. lol

Someone tried to make the point "oh we lose our entire spawn and effort we spent 10 minutes on to a stealth archer and that's just lame pking and not honorable." Really? If you actually have a stealth archer kill you and finish your champ I don't even know what to say to that. If you consistently die to Lady Mel, do you instantly come to stratics and say wow this is so cheap and stupid? No, you adjust your character, your playstyle, maybe even add some friends to your strategy. Same thing in Fel.

All I've gathered from this same topic each time it's brought up is that trammel only players generally tend to be selfish players who want access to everything, at all times, and able to do it by themselves. Otherwise, why wouldn't a group of you go down and do these spawns together? Why is a stealth archer taking your whole spawn if you and three or four of your buddies can field the island and protect you? You don't have to be an accomplished pvper to cast a para field or hit a samphire with a heal.

^ I also realize there is a large portion of the non-pvping population that is not as I described above and go out of their way to help other players and enjoy doing content with their pals. Don't hang me for the above.

 

[Learn Me]

Side note, I only play a red so I cannot obtain a slither and boy the price of that sure hasn't gone down in years. Can we have slithers and cameos drop off barracoon please? Thanks

 

[CovenantX]

Why do people keep saying that Fel is dead? the people saying that clearly NEVER go to Fel...

- Yesterday I did 5 champ spawns with my guild, got raided 3 times by 2 different guilds, and raided 2 times. That was playing only a few hours at night.
- When scouting a dungeon I saw a noob killing monsters. I stopped and asked him if he knew he was in fel, and that other players could kill him there. His answer? he said he has been doing it for the past weeks for the extra luck, and that several players have passed by him without even caring. He did get kill once, but he said he didn't care because he had insurance. That's a great attitude, I said, and left.

So yes. For your information, there are a lot of people playing in fel, and there is something going on at all times. And it could be even more active and fun if devs put some effort and acknowledge PvP is a huge part of UO.

Doing the same thing over and over again for years gets old. We want devs to listen to us and improve our game just like they hear trammies cries every day and add content for them. Every freaking year.

I'm more shocked by the guy responding back.... go to tram and see a guy doing it, he's afk 95% of the time. =/

 

[Zuckuss]

PvP is the cornerstone of the true UO and is one of the key components in facilitating player interaction within the game.

I see a lot of anger in this thread toward pvpers, as if they are one single category of a player type and that they are all bad. Couldn't be further from the truth. In fact, many of you anti-pvpers play with pvpers every day.

So what that some people in the game prefer a challenge unlike any other that can be offered via the means of UO npc combat?

As far as it being consensual or not, it already is. You have consented to pvp the moment you stepped through that red moongate on a single facet and walked outside of the guard zone.

You already have dominance over 95% of the game's content being pvp free. Don't get greedy. Step outside your comfort zone once in a while and earn the powerscroll or pay the price for the scroll if you are unwilling just as the person who wants a slither pays for it if they are unwilling to farm Medusa.

Don't paint all pvper's one color, declare their insignificance and then try to get the game tailor made to your exact comfort level which frankly is far more lackadaisical, care free and flat out easy as in comparison to how it was before all of you migrated here from Gaia and Second Life back in 03.

 

[Spartan]

... <snip> ...
Don't paint all pvper's one color, declare their insignificance and then try to get the game tailor made to your exact comfort level which frankly is far more lackadaisical, care free and flat out easy as in comparison to how it was before all of you migrated here from Gaia and Second Life back in 03.

I for one know there is a difference between PVP and PK. But I don't intend any generalization when I talk about those who play differently. How about PVPers of all kinds NOT calling us "care bears", "trammies", "cowards" and other names.

Yes, we chose a different style of play because of a MINORITY of players who could not or would not be controlled by the majority. I for one know this as I was around when the likes of Marikus and Solarm (at least) were trying to curb some of the worst.

I'm all for whatever makes players, in general, happy. If it means expanded areas of Fel rules, then so be it. The old saying was "adapt or leave". Lots of accounts left then UO:Ren happened. Not a good solution but one that did keep some accounts. But back to the topic ... if Fel rule areas are expanded, then I'll adapt.

But if that happens I don't wanna hear or see complaints that it's not enough! Got that?

 

[Corpin]

I think I got everything, but I could be wrong. There are 20 places where champ spawns occur which is the center point of PvP. They are locations with a very small area in which separates itself from the Non-PvP zone. Basically, 20 small rooms inside of a game world over 20 years in the making. Most of these aforementioned PvP spawn zones are roughly the size of a castle. So, 20 castles in all of UO.. that is the size of a PvPers playground in a game with an unheard map size for MMOs.

It is not that you cannot do champ spawns, it is that you will not. Those 20 places are for the people that will.

For your consideration..

 

[Spartan]

I think I got everything, but I could be wrong. There are 20 places where champ spawns occur which is the center point of PvP. They are locations with a very small area in which separates itself from the Non-PvP zone. Basically, 20 small rooms inside of a game world over 20 years in the making. Most of these aforementioned PvP spawn zones are roughly the size of a castle. So, 20 castles in all of UO.. that is the size of a PvPers playground in a game with an unheard map size for MMOs.

It is not that you cannot do champ spawns, it is that you will not. Those 20 places are for the people that will.

For your consideration..

View attachment 81083

You mention champ spawns ... there is no place else that you can fight? I keep hearing about Yew gate, etc. That's located in a whole landmass the last time I looked ... and it was a whole LOT larger than a castle. I mean Skara, Brit, Minoc and all the land in between. You HAVE to explicitly be in the areas you outlined? Now, if there are truly as many PVPers as many here have stated, you should all be falling all over yourselves to simply stand if that's the case!

Yes, that was sarcasm, but I used it to make a point. I grant that Tram ruleset has a boatload more space in it. But just like Fel, there are also large areas not being used. Frankly, I think both PVP and PVE folks are under-utilizing the areas available to them. TBH, adding more Fel-rules content or a PVP switch isn't gonna solve this.

If a switch is added, the PVM folks will set it to "no thanks" and still be able to play their style ... so PVP remains the same. If Ilsh is added to Fel ruleset, some folks will go there but I am willing to believe that the amount will drop overall ... because those people do NOT wish to play in your sandbox.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are there not quests and spawn runs that would require normally PVM players to go into one or more of these areas you've outlined (or generally into Fel)? Do you not raid them? Do you not offer protective services for a fee? Do you not simply watch them to see what tactics they use so a later raid can be more effective? Come on ... there has to be SOMETHING that you could do to liven things up.

The preceding was brought to you by a poster tired of hearing the same song and dance for 13+ years - from both sides and would simply like to see it gone. Good night and I'll read all the flames tomorrow! <chuckle>

 

[railshot]

PvP is the cornerstone of the true UO and is one of the key components in facilitating player interaction within the game.

PvP has not been the cornerstone of UO for most of it's existence and for a good reason. That "player interaction" you mention was driving players away, which is why Trammel was created. PvPer's derive their gaming kicks by preying on PvMers, and profiting from denying access to a vital resource to a vast majority of the player base. Let's not make them into a god's gift to UO.

 

[Corpin]

You mention champ spawns ... there is no place else that you can fight? I keep hearing about Yew gate, etc. That's located in a whole landmass the last time I looked ... and it was a whole LOT larger than a castle. I mean Skara, Brit, Minoc and all the land in between. You HAVE to explicitly be in the areas you outlined? Now, if there are truly as many PVPers as many here have stated, you should all be falling all over yourselves to simply stand if that's the case!

Yes, that was sarcasm, but I used it to make a point. I grant that Tram ruleset has a boatload more space in it. But just like Fel, there are also large areas not being used. Frankly, I think both PVP and PVE folks are under-utilizing the areas available to them. TBH, adding more Fel-rules content or a PVP switch isn't gonna solve this.

If a switch is added, the PVM folks will set it to "no thanks" and still be able to play their style ... so PVP remains the same. If Ilsh is added to Fel ruleset, some folks will go there but I am willing to believe that the amount will drop overall ... because those people do NOT wish to play in your sandbox.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are there not quests and spawn runs that would require normally PVM players to go into one or more of these areas you've outlined (or generally into Fel)? Do you not raid them? Do you not offer protective services for a fee? Do you not simply watch them to see what tactics they use so a later raid can be more effective? Come on ... there has to be SOMETHING that you could do to liven things up.

The preceding was brought to you by a poster tired of hearing the same song and dance for 13+ years - from both sides and would simply like to see it gone. Good night and I'll read all the flames tomorrow! <chuckle>

Yew gate and champ spawns are a different kind of pvp. Yew gate is open field fighting which I personally prefer. That is pvp just to pvp. Champ spawns are for grinders where tactics and execution come in to play.

Both have their place but that is the sum of offered pvp. Yes, there is VvV towns but that falls under the same blanket of Yew gate field fights.

As to your question on helping tram based players, that is something my guild on LS was quite known for. As a matter of a fact several tram based players would icq us when they were doing a spawn and getting raided by a rival guild. We would do our best to secure the spawn for them.

On top of that a major IDOC camper on LS would also call us in to fight and then give us picks of what loot we were interested in though usually we just did it for fun.

I have always wanted to organize a thing where my guild and a rival guild took 10 tram based players under our wing, trained them up for a week or so and let them go at it at champ spawns. It could be bragging rights on who trained the best team as well as perhaps make some players pvp converts or if nothing else shake up the game and maybe add some excitement for them.


On a different subject.. I pvp to pvp... however fighting over a champ spawn against a rival guild is basically how pvpers keep score. Yeah, some of the scrolls can be nice, but the guild that kills the champ and makes it out with the scrolls is the equivalent to winning a basketball game. It does not matter if the scrolls are all 120s or all 110s, they are the game winning basket, touchdown or homerun. Those scrolls are however how we make gold so we can continue funding what we need to pvp.

Personally I feel the same way about PvM as tram based players feel about PvP.. it is an aspect of the game I cannot stand. PvM is predictable, repetitive and boring. PvP is exciting and is win or lose where as PvM is never lose but a win is decided by a lucky loot drop. I buy the loot I need because I do not want to pvm, why should my one income of scrolls be taken away that is my sole way to make an in game living for myself? It is a balanced tradeoff despite the fact I could complain powerscrolls are all fel has to offer.

I am capable of pvm, I just do not enjoy it at all and do not do it.. the same way tram based players feel about fel. Capable, but not interested.

One last note, if tram based players would at least take a second to understand just the foundation of the complexity and meticulous nature of something such as PvP suit building they would find a whole new value in their loot and greatly increase their income or barter potential. You can literally PvM in anything. Every single PvM dismissable number on a suit is what builds a great PvP suit.

I hope both die hard PvPers and tram based players can one day function with respect to the different roles they play in the game and accept those roles. I feel safe in saying 95% have, it is those random vocal 5% on both sides that feel the need to complain from time to time.

 

[elster]

i tend to leave blues alone soloing spawns ( and sometimes even protect / help out), but this thread makes me want to mercilessly murder every single one from here on out.

 

[CovenantX]

You mention champ spawns ... there is no place else that you can fight? I keep hearing about Yew gate, etc.

and we do fight at yew gate for when we just want a meaningless fight... you guys are pushing for nothing but meaningless fights for us... gtfoh. play with your own content and stop trying to take ours away.


Much of the game goes unused, because most of it desperately needs updating so that the rewards are competitive with rewards from other areas of the game.

Honestly, because of champ spawns (powerscrolls)... more fel dungeons are "in use" than any trammel dungeon, except maybe shadowguard... (if you count that as a dungeon)

 

[Crunchnasty]

Make Felucca Great Again!!! Theres so much unused map in the game now its ridiculous. I hate seeing everything just be empty, I went around to several towns in my runebook and there is no one except for yew gate, and the dungeons. Even in Trammel its dead unless ur at brit bank and Luna. We need something to help revive the population, and I believe our tensions could be resolved. You call PvP'ers wolves who prey on sheep. Yeah that's what some people do. What we really want is more people to compete with in fights. I think a lot of the issue with UO is that it needs updates in several areas of the game, and I do not mean more landmass.

 

[Spartan]

and we do fight at yew gate for when we just want a meaningless fight... you guys are pushing for nothing but meaningless fights for us... gtfoh. play with your own content and stop trying to take ours away.

... <snip> ...

I kind of resent that seeing as how there are threads in this very forum all PVP-centric to:
Add consentual PVP (this thread)
Make Ilsh Fel ruleset
Make an all-Fel shard

The first 2 on that list essential takes play area away from me and those who are like me ... so why don't you get outta my backyard and go play in yours?

See how it can come back to slap you in the face? Now that we have it all out of our system, why not share a brew and some popcorn for the rest of the show?

 

[King Greg]

The first 2 on that list essential takes play area away from me and those who are like me ... so why don't you get outta my backyard and go play in yours?

You do realize this thread isn't about bringing pvp to other facets.. it's about being able to do fel content without having to pvp.

so why don't you get outta my backyard and go play in yours?

Thats every pvpers point in this thread.

 

[Spartan]

You do realize this thread isn't about bringing pvp to other facets.. it's about being able to do fel content without having to pvp.



Thats every pvpers point in this thread.

See the bold part? Answer me this - why is the thread title "DEVs make UO consentual PVP only"? To me that means UO the game. And if you want to do Fel content without having to PVP, then just don't PVP! Cooperate, coexist ... just don't PVP and Fel content then becomes available without PVP.

Simple, ain't it? But try getting the others to fall in line on that one. Nope. Won't happen. And as for the other references, kindly reread and see what the point is that I trying to make.

 

[NinjaSampire]

Well I think many of us do not understand as much about the game as we think. Def pointing at myself. For example out of 400 power scrolls less than 25percent are usable for a pet. Out of the usable for pets out of all 100 10 maybe are 120’s. I do get raided about 1/3 of time. Mostly when im doing a sowan in Atlantic during a time when people are doing rounds; most of time i laugh i dont even know what hits me! I grumble and talk a little smack and watch them finish spawn. I will say if you ever watch these guys; they probably spend more time developing the template and putting a suit together than I do training a pet for sure. I do think Fel and Tram is a ying Yang type of relationship. I do not PVP but i do spend more time in fel than just spawning. I try to fight back and sometimes i may escape or get a dismount. I do not expect to compete. Yes i do believe there are some people that cheat people etc etc. I think that is both sides of fence. I dont like to die but i die to the soawn more than i die from pvp. I wish that the pets were not nerfed so bad, but at same time I shouldnt be able to compete with someone that spends all their time perfecting how to kill players. I dont know. Long story short I dont want to see seperate shards or pvp option buttons I just like to trudge along and have fun. I for sure would rather die by a pker than mess with that roof.

 

[King Greg]

See the bold part? Answer me this - why is the thread title "DEVs make UO consentual PVP only"? To me that means UO the game. And if you want to do Fel content without having to PVP, then just don't PVP! Cooperate, coexist ... just don't PVP and Fel content then becomes available without PVP.

Oh i'm 100% With you, because that makes perfect sense, but that's not what Lord Frodo is actually after. The Title of this thread, and the entire concept is just a facade. His Ultimate goal is to be able to do spawns without having the risk of being raided.

He even states that Letting reds into tram is a gift in exchange for blues being able to do spawns with 0 Risk of being raided.

So why not just go consensual PvP everywhere and give all UO content to every player Blue and Red alike. Blues get PSs and Reds get all the Tram goodies that they want and no more he got she got BS .

Go back and read some of his posts in this thread that he started, and you will quickly see his true colors. Which is nothing more than seething hatred towards the fel/pvp community.

A PKer is someone that kills another player, PvMer, resource gather, etc because he knows they do not strand a chance because they are to afraid to fight someone that is set up to PvP. Go back to your killing the weak because we all know there are no more real PvPers left in UO.

You want to hear cry babies just listen to the PKers when you talk about taking away their only reason to PvP or tell them to play SP and we all know that SP is way to hard for the care bear prodo shard PKers. This isn't about guardzone fighting it is about the PvPers insisting that they need and item to fight over but what is funny is they are killing PvMers not other PvPers because they can't handle that.

So are you trying to tell us that you are a respectful Pker, how nice to know. Killing PvMers really boosts your ego don't it. Gotta have that item to prove how great a PKer you really are. PSs and AoS killed PvP and turned you into nothing but glorified PKers.

Fixed it for you because real PvPers didn't fight people they considered less skilled than them and a small group of well equipped PKers can take a larger group of PvMers that are set up to fight monsters not people.

Spoken like a true PvM killer because people skilled in true PvP mopped you up. PvPers fought other PvPers honing their own skills and helping like minded PvPers hone their skills they did not go around expecting a PvP fight from a char that was geared up to fight monsters. But we all know whay type of so called PvPer killed PvMers don't we.

I'm sure the guy who said these things has the best intentions for the current fel/pvp community.

 

[CovenantX]

I kind of resent that seeing as how there are threads in this very forum all PVP-centric to:
Add consentual PVP (this thread)
Make Ilsh Fel ruleset
Make an all-Fel shard

The first 2 on that list essential takes play area away from me and those who are like me ... so why don't you get outta my backyard and go play in yours?

See how it can come back to slap you in the face? Now that we have it all out of our system, why not share a brew and some popcorn for the rest of the show?

None of those suggestions take anything away from you... Your playstyle would still be viable. (unless you're a botter/scripter, then you might have some issues)
Anyone could Pvm just fine in Fel... if you can't, you need to either learn more about pvp or join a guild to carry you until you do.

I'll tell ya what though... You Convince the Devs to add 90% of future content to Fel-only, while adding the remaining 10% (damn that's generous) content to Trammel-rule facets over the next 14 years... the exact opposite as it's been for us over the last decade and a half.

Then we can call it even.

Side Note: There's a big difference between taking a portion of the content from Trammel (which oddly enough doesn't get used almost at all anyway...) and giving it to Felucca.
as opposed to taking the only portion of content away from Felucca which has the least amount to begin with.


Who started this thread anyway? Haha, nevermind... that explains everything....

 

[Thoronnar]

We've been doing champ spawns for what? a freaking decade? It has been the same for YEARS. While PvM's get new bosses and content every single year, AND STILL COMPLAIN ABOUT POWERSCROLLS!!!!.

- Factions were a complete failure
- VvV is another failure
- Yew gate is mostly bored PvPers who want a quick fix. A free for all, a "I have 15 min to play UO let me go to yew gate and kill a few, die and log off"
- Champ spawns are FUN. It requires planning, strategy, is is very unpredictable, and there is a solid reward at the end. It has worked for years. We want more stuff like that.

Imagine if they added a boss in the middle of somewhere in Fel, that had a pretty high chance of dropping slither. Man that would be insanely competitive, everyone would be fighting for that thing.

 

[Picus at the office]

Factions was decent fun till they did the big point nerf and the part time players lost their faction gear, it all seemed to die the next week and we lost countless players...IMO one of the worst ideas to date.

A fel based champ similar in concept to Navery would be a blast, deep in a dungeon but it would need more than one entrance. Won't happen, could one imagine the crocodile tears?

 

[Corpin]

Imagine if they added a boss in the middle of somewhere in Fel, that had a pretty high chance of dropping slither. Man that would be insanely competitive, everyone would be fighting for that thing.

I have suggested this before. It would be awesome if they would make a world boss that randomly spawned anywhere in fel, was actually difficult and had an artifact drop from a random major tram peerless/boss that rotated every boss.

A server wide announcement would indicate it was up with approxomiate location hints. It probably couldn't happen too often as it would flood the market even with a random loot table.. but a time or two a week maybe.

I think it could mesh the fun of open field fights with champ spawns and make for a great time. Of course the zerg guilds would be disgusting to fight but they always are in any context.

 

[OREOGL]

Factions was decent fun till they did the big point nerf and the part time players lost their faction gear, it all seemed to die the next week and we lost countless players...IMO one of the worst ideas to date.

A fel based champ similar in concept to Navery would be a blast, deep in a dungeon but it would need more than one entrance. Won't happen, could one imagine the crocodile tears?

The problem wasn't wiping the points, the problem was the ranking they tried to do by flip flopping and "scaling" and left the gear tied to them. This left players with millions of points making it impossible for other players to wear top gear.

Only the top few with the points could wear the top level gear.

I recall not being in favor of them freely distributing the gear, but in hindsight probably leveled to the playing field to a degree.

However I recall asking for a simple
Rank system based one 1 point 1 kill etc and having rank accrue every 5 points or something like that and then opening up each tier level of gear.

 

[railshot]

So, in summary.

• Powerscrolls are not the most lucrative item ingame. Easymode Trammel Instance items are - 5 cameo's in a week = 1 Plat. You could fully scroll 4 pets for this. The truth is Trammies have it all on a plate, yet are too lazy to even take the goodies off the silver plate that has been made for them.

• If this is the case, why all the concern about Trammies crashing PS prices and ruining the market? If scrolls are not that lucrative in making gold, it should not be an issue.

• Felucca is far busier than you realise, maybe far more active than Trammel - I understand I will have to get you video's for this, you will never see it yourself.

  It's PvPers who constantly bemoan that Fel is dead and needs more content. If it's so busy already, and Trammel is the one that is dead, maybe it's Trammel that needs more content, not Fel?
• 
  

• PvPers are not the ones sucking up all the gold - Trammel Traders are.

  Both do it. PvPers just do it in a more visibly offensive manner. Neither is excusable.
• 
  

• PvPers are not the ones collecting all the resources - Trammel Scripters are.

  See above.

So please, stop spewing rubbish.

I could ask you to do the same.

 

[OREOGL]

• If this is the case, why all the concern about Trammies crashing PS prices and ruining the market? If scrolls are not that lucrative in making gold, it should not be an issue.

• It's PvPers who constantly bemoan that Fel is dead and needs more content. If it's so busy already, and Trammel is the one that is dead, maybe it's Trammel that needs more content, not Fel?
• 
  
• Both do it. PvPers just do it in a more visibly offensive manner. Neither is excusable.
• 
  
• See above.

I could ask you to do the same.

To be fair every part of the game would die off if there wasn't any update to content, fel is no different.

But judging from most posts in the thread seems most non PVPers are no less offensive than those who PVP.

 

[drcossack]

Make scrolls available without forcing people to "interact" with PvPers and I'll happily leave you alone.

That's already the case. It's called buying them from a vendor. Sure, it was probably a pvp'er that got them in the first place. But there's no real way for you to tell, right?

If this is the case, why all the concern about Trammies crashing PS prices and ruining the market? If scrolls are not that lucrative in making gold, it should not be an issue.

Because Trammel already has almost ALL OF THE CONTENT IN THE ENTIRE GAME. This is not a hard concept to understand. Why do you want scrolls added to the Trammel ruleset? Because you don't want to deal with pvp'ers? That's an idiotic reason.

About a week ago, I did a Shadowguard run with a couple guildmates. I brought 2 characters and one of them ended up getting an Elemental Slayer Cameo. I've mentioned the prices before, but that's an EASY 100m+ if I advertise for it in Gen Chat on Atl. Scrolls and Primers? I have to "compete" against the RNG to get the good ones: 12 chances at a 110, 115, or 120 Scroll, from a pool of 32 different skills (the count might be a little off on this, but not by much.)

Why are PvM'ers so hung up on Powerscrolls? They're still a good way to make gold, but they're FAR from the best way to do so - if you want the easy gold, you'll find it in Trammel: Shadowguard, EM Events. NONE of the pvp'ers are trying to take content out of Trammel. We're trying to get content ADDED to Fel, which it's sorely in need of.

 

[railshot]

About a week ago, I did a Shadowguard run with a couple guildmates. I brought 2 characters and one of them ended up getting an Elemental Slayer Cameo. I've mentioned the prices before, but that's an EASY 100m+ if I advertise for it in Gen Chat on Atl. Scrolls and Primers? I have to "compete" against the RNG to get the good ones: 12 chances at a 110, 115, or 120 Scroll, from a pool of 32 different skills (the count might be a little off on this, but not by much.)

Why are PvM'ers so hung up on Powerscrolls? They're still a good way to make gold, but they're FAR from the best way to do so - if you want the easy gold, you'll find it in Trammel: Shadowguard, EM Events. NONE of the pvp'ers are trying to take content out of Trammel. We're trying to get content ADDED to Fel, which it's sorely in need of.

If you are right, and Powersscrolls are far from them best way to make gold, why are PvPers so protective of their exclusivity? I mean if they are so inferior to Shadowguard, then introducing them to Trammel should have no effect on PvPers whatsoever. Trammies will do some spawns for a few weeks until they are bored, but in the end, greed will win out and they will go back to all those much more lucrative ways. Where is the harm?
Fact is, powerscrolls were very lucrative pre-pet revamp. Post-pet revamp they are obscenely so.

 

[chester rockwell]

I'll wax a lonely blue doing a spawn....if they aren't pricks and are coming back to the game, I'll usually throw a mill at them to help them out. Same when I find a rando blue killing dragons or whatever for resources. Made a few friends that way.
I've been raided by "non-zerg" guilds that zerg the fudge out of my blue sampire. I can usually get away. I don't whine. It's fun.

Also, the whole "zerg" and "trammie" and other name-calling is stupid. Gen chat is a cesspool. Help chat is where some of you need to go to actually HELP newer players coming back.

 

[drcossack]

If you are right, and Powersscrolls are far from them best way to make gold, why are PvPers so protective of their exclusivity? I mean if they are so inferior to Shadowguard, then introducing them to Trammel should have no effect on PvPers whatsoever. Trammies will do some spawns for a few weeks until they are bored, but in the end, greed will win out and they will go back to all those much more lucrative ways. Where is the harm?
Fact is, powerscrolls were very lucrative pre-pet revamp. Post-pet revamp they are obscenely so.

Because it's the only content you have that's exclusive to Felucca, other than the Abyssal Infernal and Primeval Lich spawns. I just said that in my previous post...as have other people.

If scrolls get added to Trammel, here's what's gonna happen:

People will go to spawn A (let's say Tokuno's), some of whom will be scripting. They'll get their scrolls, then go to the next one. Repeat ad nauseum.

afk scripting in Fel will just get you killed. I've done it to guys in Blackthorn and Hythloth more than once. While it DOES happen there, it's far less prevalent because of the risks associated with doing it.

As far as scroll prices, you're completely off the mark. A 120 Tactics, which I believe is one of the more desirable scrolls for pets now, sold for 10-20m before the pet revamp. I believe it's double that now. They weren't THAT lucrative, because you still had to GET the 120's or the Volume 3 primers. That hasn't changed because of the pet revamp. 120's don't drop every time you do a spawn.

I'll repeat myself:

About a week ago, I did a Shadowguard run with a couple guildmates. I brought 2 characters and one of them ended up getting an Elemental Slayer Cameo. I've mentioned the prices before, but that's an EASY 100m+ if I advertise for it in Gen Chat on Atl. Scrolls and Primers? I have to "compete" against the RNG to get the good ones: 12 chances at a 110, 115, or 120 Scroll, from a pool of 32 different skills (the count might be a little off on this, but not by much.)

In contrast, take Shadowguard: there are 16 different drops. Some have multiple properties available, which gives you 20 different variations of the Minax Sandals/Anon's Spellbook/Cameo/Juo'nar's Grimoire (Wamap's Bone Earrings would give you even more variants, but they're pretty much unusable and I'm not factoring them in.) I'm not sure if Garg versions of the artifacts drop - I've only ever done the Roof with Human characters. The roof's backpack drops have a decent drop rate - I think around 30%? That's just to get a drop. Sure, the odds of you getting the Cameo are fairly low, and even lower a chance that you get Demon & Repond (the most desirable ones.) For a while, I was doing 3+ runs a day (knocking out the whole thing in about an hour, 3 people each using two clients), giving me about 6 chances at drops (I did bring a 3rd character once, but it was a bit of a pain to manage 3 tamers)...and I got drops more often than not. I don't recall the exact # of Cameos that I ended up getting, but I'd guess I sold 6-10 Cameos as a result of that farming, with one sold a while later (an Arachnid for 130m.)

I've made just as much from EM events, and that was just from playing a few shards: Atl, Legends, and LS. I've since added a thrower on Origin, but haven't really played there since the Titan invasion. To be honest, if it weren't for needing to gear all of those throwers (2 per US shard except Siege), I'd do EM events exclusively just to make gold. After I got all of the 120's that I needed + built suits/got weapons for each of them.

 

[CovenantX]

If you are right, and Powersscrolls are far from them best way to make gold, why are PvPers so protective of their exclusivity?

Probably because without Powerscrolls there would be Zero content to do in Fel because the risk isn't worth it if the rewards are obtainable elsewhere...? Yeah that's it.

The real question is, How many times do people have to point that out before you understand it? Do we need to type slower for you or something?

I mean this is the kinda crap that made Jesus change his middle initial to F.

 

[railshot]

People will go to spawn A (let's say Tokuno's), some of whom will be scripting. They'll get their scrolls, then go to the next one. Repeat ad nauseum.

Should not be a problem since according to you, Shadowguard is where the money is. Plus, it seems BS is finally cracking down on scripters. Identifying and reporting a scripter doing a spawn should not be difficult.

As far as scroll prices, you're completely off the mark. A 120 Tactics, which I believe is one of the more desirable scrolls for pets now, sold for 10-20m before the pet revamp. I believe it's double that now. They weren't THAT lucrative, because you still had to GET the 120's or the Volume 3 primers. That hasn't changed because of the pet revamp. 120's don't drop every time you do a spawn.

Tactics was very desirable before pet revamp as well. How about something like wrestling? Prior to the pet publish I bought some on Atl for 250k a piece. How many fold more do they go for now? What abut parrying? Meditation? Are you really going to try claiming that the revamp did not jack prices to insane degrees? Really?

In contrast, take Shadowguard: there are 16 different drops. Some have multiple properties available, which gives you 20 different variations of the Minax Sandals/Anon's Spellbook/Cameo/Juo'nar's Grimoire (Wamap's Bone Earrings would give you even more variants, but they're pretty much unusable and I'm not factoring them in.) I'm not sure if Garg versions of the artifacts drop - I've only ever done the Roof with Human characters. The roof's backpack drops have a decent drop rate - I think around 30%? That's just to get a drop. Sure, the odds of you getting the Cameo are fairly low, and even lower a chance that you get Demon & Repond (the most desirable ones.) For a while, I was doing 3+ runs a day (knocking out the whole thing in about an hour, 3 people each using two clients), giving me about chances at drops (I did bring a 3rd character once, but it was a bit of a pain to manage 3 tamers)...and I got drops more often than not. I don't recall the exact # of Cameos that I ended up getting, but I'd guess I sold 6-10 Cameos as a result of that farming, with one sold a while later (an Arachnid for 130m.)

Yeah, that's all nice. Except you can do 10 roofs and not get anything but trash. How long will it take you to do a single roof run including rooms? Couple of hours; more if you are not that uber. At the same time, PvPers here time and time again claim that if you should be able to do a spawn in 10-15 minutes. And you always get multiple scrolls from the spawn, even if not all of them are 120s.

 

[drcossack]

Yeah, that's all nice. Except you can do 10 roofs and not get anything but trash. How long will it take you to do a single roof run including rooms? Couple of hours; more if you are not that uber. At the same time, PvPers here time and time again claim that if you should be able to do a spawn in 10-15 minutes. And you always get multiple scrolls from the spawn, even if not all of them are 120s.

It's an hour for an entire run of Shadowguard. btw, the guys I do it with can do it even faster now, thanks to the pet revamp. I recently tamed an Ice Damage Platinum Drake, gave it Chiv and Armor Ignore, and one of its hits did 265 damage (I believe it was in the Belfry.) Not even my throwers can reach that - 120 Anat/Tactics, 100% DI, and double slayer bonus (most often used against Navrey), I cap out at a 243 dmg Armor Ignore (although my throwers can do it far more consistently than a pet.)

Sure, the prices of all the Roof drops (that aren't the Cameo) have gone down. But that's why you bring multiple characters - you want more chances at drops. Even if you don't get a drop, you can always get good corpse loot and sell that. Depending on the item, you could get AT LEAST double what you'd get for a Cameo.

Should not be a problem since according to you, Shadowguard is where the money is. Plus, it seems BS is finally cracking down on scripters. Identifying and reporting a scripter doing a spawn should not be difficult.

Are you deliberately not getting my point? You can get away with scripting, multi-clienting, or whatever in Trammel...because you can't be (legally) killed there (that doesn't stop some people from luring though, and they've even done it to me in Fel.) If you're multi-clienting in Fel, or even afk scripting, you're going to get killed. Most pvp'ers won't afk farm in Fel for that specific reason. If I bring two characters to a Fel spawn, it's because I know nothing's going to happen to the 2nd one.

btw, it's not a matter of reporting the scripter. The GM's may take hours to show up, at which point the guy might have left wherever he was farming, logged out, etc.

Tactics was very desirable before pet revamp as well. How about something like wrestling? Prior to the pet publish I bought some on Atl for 250k a piece. How many fold more do they go for now? What abut parrying? Meditation? Are you really going to try claiming that the revamp did not jack prices to insane degrees? Really?

Where did I ever say this wasn't the case? I said they're still a good way to make gold, but not the best way. Repeating myself again:

As far as scroll prices, you're completely off the mark. A 120 Tactics, which I believe is one of the more desirable scrolls for pets now, sold for 10-20m before the pet revamp. I believe it's double that now. They weren't THAT lucrative, because you still had to GET the 120's or the Volume 3 primers. That hasn't changed because of the pet revamp. 120's don't drop every time you do a spawn.

The highest price for a 120 now is what, in the 40-50 mil range? Primers are in a similar boat - other than taming and Spellweaving, the rest are...lackluster in terms of cost. In the time it takes you to find a 120 Tactics/level 3 spellweaving or taming, you can make several times that from Tram content.

 

[Finley Grant]

 

[Finley Grant]

Sorry to say but i have issues to See the actual issue.

In my opinion Its rather should be more places Like Fel... As this was what uo got Made for. IT can be Dangerous If You Go Out...

But i think ITS OK to have Tram and Fel. However Fel should have more exclusive Contest than Tram with better loot..

Why? More risk should have more rewards...

I Cant understand why people are complaining. No one is forced to go to fell.

If you don't like the risk that someone raid you. Then buy the scrolls ...

It's the same as people who don't like farm shadowguard. They will have to buy the artifact ...

Alone for annoying the devs with such an important topic ....

 

[Thoronnar]

Railshot, you are another one who's view is so blinkered you can see so little either side.

The most lucrative content is in Trammel, always has been.
My guild is a pure powerscroll guild, it's pretty much all we do, we are possibly the best powerscroll farming guild in existence yet we make nothing off powerscrolls almost.
120's are not so many - then we use them, give them to our new players etc.

My guildmates have made 1 Plat per week off roof when they want to.
They go to Trammel when they want to make gold, there are so many ways to do it, you just need to use your imagination and experience.
I refuse to go to Trammel, and don't make gold.

You seem to be adding the easy-mode gold farming abilities of Trammel into your perceived list of negatives against PvPers to paint them in the worst possible light.
Let's nail that one on the head.
In Trammel, you sit and gold-farm/do instances all day long, or can script - you may not, many Trammel players do - it's them making all the gold, not the PvPers.
In Felucca, you cannot do this so easily.
Direct your anger at the Trammies, like I do, for playing such an easy, non-competitive system that brings distortion everywhere.

No competition in Trammel?
I'm afraid you have again misunderstood the facet you play on.
There is no open honest aggressive competition, instead it is behind the scenes, in the shadows passive aggressive competition - possibly the worst character trait and very unhealthy for you.
Have you seen the gold sellers, the traders, all ripping players off, then selling really high?
All they care about is greed, and the gold in their bank accounts, they are competing for gold, and ruining your game experience at the same time.
Start directing your anger in the right direction.

By the way, you have no idea how busy Felucca is, you have never been there, I had another really active night with tons of players last night, every night this week.
I've never seen any activity in Trammel that even compares to the numbers and activity levels we have.
Maybe the odd event once a month.
What's the most you get in Trammel? 10 Players in a party somewhere? 20 sat in Luna?
We'll have to start videoing some of our evenings for you, Fact is possibly the only way to get through your rigid stereotypes built on false propaganda.


So, in summary.

• Powerscrolls are not the most lucrative item ingame. Easymode Trammel Instance items are - 5 cameo's in a week = 1 Plat. You could fully scroll 4 pets for this. The truth is Trammies have it all on a plate, yet are too lazy to even take the goodies off the silver plate that has been made for them.
• Felucca is far busier than you realise, maybe far more active than Trammel - I understand I will have to get you video's for this, you will never see it yourself.
• PvPers are not the ones sucking up all the gold - Trammel Traders are.
• PvPers are not the ones collecting all the resources - Trammel Scripters are.

So please, stop spewing rubbish.

This post should be a sticky

 

[Picus at the office]

Tactics was very desirable before pet revamp as well. How about something like wrestling? Prior to the pet publish I bought some on Atl for 250k a piece. How many fold more do they go for now? What abut parrying? Meditation? Are you really going to try claiming that the revamp did not jack prices to insane degrees? Really?

No, this is a cause and effect. The cause of the initial inflation to the PS prices was certainly the revamp but the long term effect has been a smaller sub-section of the player base deciding that they have to make 10+ pets, all maxed out with 7+*120. Talk to them about why there is such a shortage of scrolls, those who spawn have been trying their best to provide for the overly greedy PvM types.

 

[Thoronnar]

No, this is a cause and effect. The cause of the initial inflation to the PS prices was certainly the revamp but the long term effect has been a smaller sub-section of the player base deciding that they have to make 10+ pets, all maxed out with 7+*120. Talk to them about why there is such a shortage of scrolls, those who spawn have been trying their best to provide for the overly greedy PvM types.

LOL my tamer's cu-sidhe is level 4 (fully trained but I haven't even eaten the points). It has been fully trained for about a month now. the Cu's got all skills at 100 (not 1 PS) and I've been doing end game PvM with it with no issues. I am planning of making it a 110 on other skills, I wouldn't even entertain the idea of the maxed out 7+ 120. And this is just ONE PET. Seriously how can this people have so many pets maxed out, then complain about the price of PS?

 

[Great DC]

The tamers are not too bright. Ive told them many times that just raising the pets base damage to max adds more damage increase then adding every possible scroll in the game. They don't care, to them its like decoing a house, when they lore it and see the page with all 120s on it, it looks pretty to them. Strange people they are