DEVs make UO consensual PvP only

[Pawain]

Seriously how can this people have so many pets maxed out, then complain about the price of PS?

You don't hear me complaining about the prices. I was there when it was on TC and was smart enough to buy all the 120s on Atlantic really cheap. Except tactics, I thought 10M was too much... Silly me.

The players who are returning or did not pay attention to the taming revamp are the ones who can not afford a 120 Tactics or Magic Resist. The others are expensive but not stupid expensive.

Those players have a right to complain. Pets can clear a spawn but Pets can not defend a raid. We kill mobs daily that are way stronger than our pets. Any PK can kill a pet in a few hits, but why? Just kill the player first in 2 hits and let the pet gnaw on you at the max of 35 damage.

Remove the damage reduction on pets and allow tamers to have a chance at defending a spawn. The tamer has 3 skills wasted on taming and a suit that has 100+ SDI for Magery. Most have two Bard skills or Spell Weaving. Most tamers will still be easy kills.

As Cossack noted, we tamers like our builds and will not change. The players in Fel fear changes or even the thought of a new template coming to Fel.

We can do spawns but we can not protect our player. Our pet builds cost a lot more than the average PvPers suit. Let us be viable at a raid and we will not complain.

I don't want to be in this thread. Consensual PvP will never happen.

 

[drcossack]

As Cossack noted, we tamers like our builds and will not change. The players in Fel fear changes or even the thought of a new template coming to Fel.

No, we do not. In the past, pvp'ers had to deal with 5/6 casting, unbreakable nerve strike, Word of Death archers, uninterruptible 4/6 Holy Fist, corpse skin/curse stacking for 45 fire resist, etc. The flavor of the month template is nothing new for us. EVERYTHING new that has come to pvp has been broken in one way or another, which is why it gets nerfed (sometimes heavily.) Our problem is that the pvp imbalance isn't always fixed, or that it gets fixed TOO much, which kills an entire template.

Did the devs do a little too much with the pvp pet nerf? Perhaps - I haven't pvp'd on Atl very much recently, so I don't know how many tamers are over there, but I've only seen one on LS (in the other guild), who's an easy kill (and not because his pet sucks in pvp.) There were some major issues with pets, which is all they needed to fix - the movement speed of the phoenix (which also needs an art revert. But that's a gripe for another time) and pets teleporting. Pet damage really wasn't the issue, at least not to the extent that it got reduced.

 

[Pawain]

Pet damage really wasn't the issue, at least not to the extent that it got reduced.

We agree on this point. The devs could not balance pets so they just nerfed them into uselessness like they did with Matilda.

If raiders were smart they would welcome us to Fel and reap the rewards of easy kills. The player carries the scroll not the pet. You are well aware of the intellence level of the average pker.

 

[railshot]

No, this is a cause and effect. The cause of the initial inflation to the PS prices was certainly the revamp but the long term effect has been a smaller sub-section of the player base deciding that they have to make 10+ pets, all maxed out with 7+*120. Talk to them about why there is such a shortage of scrolls, those who spawn have been trying their best to provide for the overly greedy PvM types.

Seriously? The devs make this great publish that adds all this variety to the taming field, and you are blaming the tamers for playing the game? The reason for the high prices is not so much the increased demand, but the fixed supply. Do you need me to tell you again why supply is fixed and is unable to match the increased demand?

 

[drcossack]

Seriously? The devs make this great publish that adds all this variety to the taming field, and you are blaming the tamers for playing the game? The reason for the high prices is not so much the increased demand, but the fixed supply. Do you need me to tell you again why supply is fixed and is unable to match the increased demand?

...so you're going to blame the pvp'ers again? Really? Let's be honest here, it's the TAMERS that are the cause of the high prices - the supply isn't fixed, because you can go get them whenever you want. You just choose not to set foot in Fel, so you can't get them for yourself. The demand for scrolls has gone up (for no reason) because people want to scroll out their pets with a bunch of unnecessary 120's. People like me, who might want to make chars on other shards, have to suffer because of the scroll prices - if I want 120 Magery/Eval/Resist/Tactics/Anatomy, I have to give up an arm and a leg to buy them...or farm them myself.

Almost all of the pets I use haven't eaten ONE scroll - there's a few that have eaten one of Wrestling/Tactics/Eval. But their damage hasn't gone up very much, if it went up at all. A Platinum Drake (Cold damage) with max Strength, all GM capped skills, Chiv, and Armor Ignore does 100+ damage on a regular basis with its regular hits. Its Armor Ignore can surpass what my actual characters are capable of. Had I opted to 120 Wrestling/Tactics/Anatomy/Chiv it might have gone up, but not by much. Maybe up to 280 damage on Armor Ignore?

 

[TaldarinZPhoenix]

i have to agree with drcossack that the cause is the tamers but I do not think it is the tamers *fault* per se. We have white scrolls for player stat ups, pink scrolls for transcends, blues for alacrity.... why dont we have say purple scrolls for pets. Any time a player gets a white scroll, an identical purple scroll drops into the pack for pets ONLY. They can be scroll bound into higher forms just like white scrolls.
Supply is effectivly doubled and non-tamers dont have to compete with tamers for scrolls

 

[Picus of Napa]

One for one is a silly ratio but the idea of pet specific scrolls is interesting, cat seems out of the bag though and this dev team isn't/shouldn't spend one moment of time debating it. I can only imagine what the uproar would be as those would/should be fel based just like the current system. I would love to see the prices a fel based farming guild could charge, would be funny.

I can see some reasoning to want 120 skill level for a pet, but just like a normal char, all one has to do is farm them. Easy peasy.

 

[railshot]

...so you're going to blame the pvp'ers again? Really? Let's be honest here, it's the TAMERS that are the cause of the high prices - the supply isn't fixed, because you can go get them whenever you want. You just choose not to set foot in Fel, so you can't get them for yourself. The demand for scrolls has gone up (for no reason) because people want to scroll out their pets with a bunch of unnecessary 120's. People like me, who might want to make chars on other shards, have to suffer because of the scroll prices - if I want 120 Magery/Eval/Resist/Tactics/Anatomy, I have to give up an arm and a leg to buy them...or farm them myself.

You are familiar how free market works, right? When there is an increase in demand, there is an initial increase in price, followed by increase in supply (driven by increased prices), followed by drop in prices. When prices remain high it means only one thing - the supply for whatever reason could not keep pace with demand. Arguing with this is at best to show one's ignorance.
With UO we have a small subset of players controlling the powerscrolls. They are able to farm X number of scrolls per day. And they are not letting anyone else in. Now we have a sudden jump in demand. Not because tamers are greedy (their greed have not changed in the last year), but because devs introduced a new mechanic. But look - it's the same small subset of players controlling the powerscrolls. And they are still able to farm only so much (hint -this is the fixed supply part). And they are still not letting anyone else in (more of the fixed supply).
IMHO, the biggest one's to blame here are the Devs. PvPers are just happy to take advantage of the nice little racket that was dropped in their laps. It does not mean this id fair or should stay the way it is.

 

[TaldarinZPhoenix]

One for one is a silly ratio.

Originally I had thought 4:1 but only mentioned 1:1 as a “for example” im not stuck on a ratio. Anything is better than what we have now, but who wants to have to dig through 48 purple scrolls after a champ spawn.
And of course they would only spawn as white scrolls spawn, so fel champ spawns

 

[drcossack]

You are familiar how free market works, right? When there is an increase in demand, there is an initial increase in price, followed by increase in supply (driven by increased prices), followed by drop in prices. When prices remain high it means only one thing - the supply for whatever reason could not keep pace with demand. Arguing with this is at best to show one's ignorance.

I'm aware. Economics 101.

With UO we have a small subset of players controlling the powerscrolls. They are able to farm X number of scrolls per day. And they are not letting anyone else in. Now we have a sudden jump in demand. Not because tamers are greedy (their greed have not changed in the last year), but because devs introduced a new mechanic. But look - it's the same small subset of players controlling the powerscrolls. And they are still able to farm only so much (hint -this is the fixed supply part). And they are still not letting anyone else in (more of the fixed supply).

I'm sorry, what year is this? *checks calendar* hmm, it says 2018. The # of pvp'ers in this game has dwindled massively. There's maybe 50 active pvp'ers now? I don't know the exact number, but you see the same people on every shard, so there can't be that many. Back when scrolls were first introduced, you'd have a point. All of the pvp guilds had a lot of members back then, so they could control the market without much difficulty. In today's UO, there is no reason why you can't go do one of the out of the way spawns, which pvp'ers aren't likely to check (they will check them, but if you're doing Despise/Destard/Fire/Oaks you're pretty much going to get raided.)

 

[railshot]

I'm sorry, what year is this? *checks calendar* hmm, it says 2018. The # of pvp'ers in this game has dwindled massively. There's maybe 50 active pvp'ers now? I don't know the exact number, but you see the same people on every shard, so there can't be that many. Back when scrolls were first introduced, you'd have a point. All of the pvp guilds had a lot of members back then, so they could control the market without much difficulty. In today's UO, there is no reason why you can't go do one of the out of the way spawns, which pvp'ers aren't likely to check (they will check them, but if you're doing Despise/Destard/Fire/Oaks you're pretty much going to get raided.)

Yep, you see same people on every shard, exactly because they monitor spawns everywhere. We can argue until we are blue in the face, but the facts that you cant dispute are these - scroll prices went up sharply after demand increased and stayed there.The only way this is possible is if the supply cannot be increased. You can accuse me of not being smart enough to farm less popular spawns, or of farming them to slow, or with not enough people. But surely, among a few thousand of those greedy Trammies, there should be enough to do spawning right? I mean the incentive (insane prices) is definitely there. And yet, here we are a year later with the same prices. The only way this is possible is if those 50 who have characters on every shard manage to prevent the rest of us from doing spawns. Can't really argue with prices.

 

[Great DC]

If everyone did spawns the prices would come down. So go do spawns, the more that do them the lower the prices will get. Enough complaining already!!

 

[drcossack]

Yep, you see same people on every shard, exactly because they monitor spawns everywhere. We can argue until we are blue in the face, but the facts that you cant dispute are these - scroll prices went up sharply after demand increased and stayed there.The only way this is possible is if the supply cannot be increased. You can accuse me of not being smart enough to farm less popular spawns, or of farming them to slow, or with not enough people. But surely, among a few thousand of those greedy Trammies, there should be enough to do spawning right? I mean the incentive (insane prices) is definitely there. And yet, here we are a year later with the same prices. The only way this is possible is if those 50 who have characters on every shard manage to prevent the rest of us from doing spawns. Can't really argue with prices.

Actually, I can. I joined a couple guildies doing spawns today, protecting at one that just finished about 10 minutes ago. Didn't get anything good, but I expect that. Over and over.

LS has community hunts Tuesday-Friday nights. Attendance varies, but ML Peerless are generally done on Wednesday. There were enough people tonight for two parties to go in. Do you know how quickly that same group would be able to do a champ spawn? Particularly if they were all on sampires? The pvp'ers can't be everywhere: there are multiple dungeon spots to check (Despise, Deceit, Fire, Destard, Hythloth for the Abyssal Infernal, Terathan Keep) and over a dozen spots in t2a. I know at least one guy has at least one "camera" character (a stealthing wraith form character), which I've seen on multiple occasions (and even killed it a couple times), but he doesn't always raid.

The supply of scrolls isn't going up, for a few reasons: 1) The pvp'ers don't care. We don't do spawns for the scrolls, because we don't (necessarily) need to. 2) 120's are what the tamers want, and you're not guaranteed to get one. I've done a decent amount of spawns lately and I don't remember the last time I saw a 120. 3) EJ accounts. Some of my guildmates came back on new accounts and they were in need of scrolls. Even I made an EJ account, although I quickly subbed on it (just to keep my house private) and bought ToL to do Shadowguard.

I've said this on LS before, which guys like @Pawain will confirm: "I don't raid spawns because I'm too lazy to check. If you want me to raid you, you have to tell me you're doing it" - I'll amend that to "I don't do spawns because I'm too lazy to work them up." I can do multiple spawns in t2a (if they pop) without anyone showing up. But I don't: 1) if there's no fight, I'm not interested 2) I"m not guaranteed to get the scrolls I'm actually looking for (Throwing, Anatomy, Tactics, for the aforementioned Event throwers), or 120 taming/lore for my 3rd tamer.

Here's a question for you. Ignoring the 50 pvp'ers "argument" (which isn't one), why don't you and your guildmates do spawns of your own? Even on Atlantic you can do spawns without getting raided, although it's a bit harder due to the population, and the popular spawn locations WILL be raided. If you're not willing to do the spawns to get your own scrolls, it's on you.

 

[OREOGL]

Yep, you see same people on every shard, exactly because they monitor spawns everywhere. We can argue until we are blue in the face, but the facts that you cant dispute are these - scroll prices went up sharply after demand increased and stayed there.The only way this is possible is if the supply cannot be increased. You can accuse me of not being smart enough to farm less popular spawns, or of farming them to slow, or with not enough people. But surely, among a few thousand of those greedy Trammies, there should be enough to do spawning right? I mean the incentive (insane prices) is definitely there. And yet, here we are a year later with the same prices. The only way this is possible is if those 50 who have characters on every shard manage to prevent the rest of us from doing spawns. Can't really argue with prices.

Prices aren't really relevant to the conversation.

Yeah prices took off after the pet revamp as you'd expect them to, but anyone can farm them.

I pulled the trigger and downloaded UO again, and while running through all dungeons I didn't die or even get attacked as expected.

In fact I didn't see anyone.

People need to relax and just try things. I never understood why people find it ok to grind and die to mobs without getting anything for hours yet they try doing a 20 minute spawn and die once it's game over.

 

[elster]

It's clear they (the ones in this thread) see it as a personal attack when they die to another player. They can't handle it emotionally. The blanket hatred towards all PvPers makes this clear. The issue isn't about dying or losing items. The issue is their egos are hurt and they rather not step foot in fel than have have their fragile egos tested.

 

[North_LS]

WHAT if i told you, your pet doesnt need to be all 120s to be very viable even for endgame content?

 

[drcossack]

WHAT if i told you, your pet doesnt need to be all 120s to be very viable even for endgame content?

In all seriousness, I was using a White Wyrm, Rune Beetle, and Nightmare in Shadowguard BEFORE the pet revamp. Ok, sure, they couldn't tank the bosses...but I was well aware that they couldn't. That was with all GM skills. They're still useful when you do the Roof. The only difference now: they can actually tank on their own.

 

[North_LS]

In all seriousness, I was using a White Wyrm, Rune Beetle, and Nightmare in Shadowguard BEFORE the pet revamp. Ok, sure, they couldn't tank the bosses...but I was well aware that they couldn't. That was with all GM skills. They're still useful when you do the Roof. The only difference now: they can actually tank on their own.

yep. until a week or so ago, none of my fully trained pets had any scrolls and it didnt hold me back on content. Gauntlet is a breeze except for df to do solo on a tamer with a 5 slot cu. so are champs aside from Semidar. Navrey is as simple as put on consume, all kill, go hide behind something until shes dead.

scrolls are nice and give a top end to work toward on your pets, but they're still powerhouses when fully trained at gm level.

It's really not much different from building a suit. Sure, you want those super expensive pieces to make it perfect, but you can make a very decent one and be very successful with it for fairly little.

 

[railshot]

Prices aren't really relevant to the conversation.

Yeah prices took off after the pet revamp as you'd expect them to, but anyone can farm them.

I pulled the trigger and downloaded UO again, and while running through all dungeons I didn't die or even get attacked as expected.

In fact I didn't see anyone.

That is pretty much like saying WHO smoking statistics are irrelevant, because my grandfather smoked 2 packs a day and lived to 100. Prices reflect a real situation with the game. Not your perception. Not my perception. They show what people are able and not able to do.

 

[drcossack]

That is pretty much like saying WHO smoking statistics are irrelevant, because my grandfather smoked 2 packs a day and lived to 100. Prices reflect a real situation with the game. Not your perception. Not my perception. They show what people are able and not able to do.

No, it shows what people like you are UNWILLING to do. The only thing stopping you from going to Fel and doing spawns for yourself is YOU. Stop blaming everything and everyone else for what you refuse to do. If you're not willing to get the scrolls for yourself, stop complaining.

If you want to get more powerscrolls in circulation and lower the price of them, maybe you could, oh, idk, DO FEL CHAMP SPAWNS. You're not guaranteed to get 120's, but you can still scroll bind and upgrade. You're not guaranteed to get raided either - some time back, I did Despise 5x in a row before someone showed up on the 6th run.

Let me ask you this: Do you think the pvp'ers actually LIKE doing any new pvm content, Shadowguard, champ spawns that don't get raided, Doom, or w/e else? We really don't...but we're not complaining. For one reason: because of the way the game is now. When the best items (and profits) come from doing all of those things, we put the time in and get our profits from selling our backdrop drops/corpse loot.

 

[Thoronnar]

You don't hear me complaining about the prices. I was there when it was on TC and was smart enough to buy all the 120s on Atlantic really cheap. Except tactics, I thought 10M was too much... Silly me.

The players who are returning or did not pay attention to the taming revamp are the ones who can not afford a 120 Tactics or Magic Resist. The others are expensive but not stupid expensive.

Those players have a right to complain. Pets can clear a spawn but Pets can not defend a raid. We kill mobs daily that are way stronger than our pets. Any PK can kill a pet in a few hits, but why? Just kill the player first in 2 hits and let the pet gnaw on you at the max of 35 damage.

Remove the damage reduction on pets and allow tamers to have a chance at defending a spawn. The tamer has 3 skills wasted on taming and a suit that has 100+ SDI for Magery. Most have two Bard skills or Spell Weaving. Most tamers will still be easy kills.

As Cossack noted, we tamers like our builds and will not change. The players in Fel fear changes or even the thought of a new template coming to Fel.

We can do spawns but we can not protect our player. Our pet builds cost a lot more than the average PvPers suit. Let us be viable at a raid and we will not complain.

I don't want to be in this thread. Consensual PvP will never happen.

Well yeah it is a matter of balance. If you have a tammer purely designed for PvM who can solo or do very well against PvM bosses don't expect it to be a powerful PvP template... that's just part of the game, you can't have everything. For instance, my tammer is an archer, not mage, and can defend himself on a PvP scenario. I also have a dedicated PvP char, and if I go do spawns with my tammer or another PvM toon I get protection from friends, and have my PvP toon ready to act if I get raided. That's the nature of doing champ spawns. There is a risk of being raid and that's just how it works.

If you can't PvP you can always get people to protect you. This is an online multiplayer game, not a "solo" game. If you want to play solo, then you risk dying on spawn. That is entirely your choice. There are too many people in this game who want to play solo and have everything handed to them on a silver platter.

 

[OREOGL]

That is pretty much like saying WHO smoking statistics are irrelevant, because my grandfather smoked 2 packs a day and lived to 100. Prices reflect a real situation with the game. Not your perception. Not my perception. They show what people are able and not able to do.

This is a faulty comparison. Prices generally reflect supply and demand, minus the outliers, not health statistics of smoking tabacco.

Prices do not dictate the ability to get scrolls. (Unless you only buy them)

 

[jopromol]

Well I think many of us do not understand as much about the game as we think. Def pointing at myself. For example out of 400 power scrolls less than 25percent are usable for a pet. Out of the usable for pets out of all 100 10 maybe are 120’s. I do get raided about 1/3 of time. Mostly when im doing a spwan in Atlantic during a time when people are doing rounds; most of time i laugh i dont even know what hits me! I grumble and talk a little smack and watch them finish spawn. I will say if you ever watch these guys; they probably spend more time developing the template and putting a suit together than I do training a pet for sure. I do think Fel and Tram is a ying Yang type of relationship. I do not PVP but i do spend more time in fel than just spawning. I try to fight back and sometimes i may escape or get a dismount. I do not expect to compete. Yes i do believe there are some people that cheat people etc etc. I think that is both sides of fence. I dont like to die but i die to the spawn more than i die from pvp. I wish that the pets were not nerfed so bad, but at same time I shouldnt be able to compete with someone that spends all their time perfecting how to kill players. I dont know. Long story short I dont want to see seperate shards or pvp option buttons I just like to trudge along and have fun. I for sure would rather die by a pker than mess with that roof.

Well said!

 

[elster]

Well yeah it is a matter of balance. If you have a tammer purely designed for PvM who can solo or do very well against PvM bosses don't expect it to be a powerful PvP template... that's just part of the game, you can't have everything. For instance, my tammer is an archer, not mage, and can defend himself on a PvP scenario. I also have a dedicated PvP char, and if I go do spawns with my tammer or another PvM toon I get protection from friends, and have my PvP toon ready to act if I get raided. That's the nature of doing champ spawns. There is a risk of being raid and that's just how it works.

If you can't PvP you can always get people to protect you. This is an online multiplayer game, not a "solo" game. If you want to play solo, then you risk dying on spawn. That is entirely your choice. There are too many people in this game who want to play solo and have everything handed to them on a silver platter.

You mean to tell me that one template shouldn't be amazing at all content in the game?! Well would you look at that. Instead of complaining and asking for easy mode, this player made a template that can do a spawn AND defend himself. What a crazy thing.

 

[railshot]

This is a faulty comparison. Prices generally reflect supply and demand, minus the outliers, not health statistics of smoking tabacco.

Prices do not dictate the ability to get scrolls. (Unless you only buy them)

The comparison was that of numbers reflecting an overall situation vs anecdotal evidence. Ability to get scrolls IS supply and has direct influence on the price. If this is something you disagree with, we might as well start arguing about flatness of the Earth.

 

[railshot]

No, it shows what people like you are UNWILLING to do. The only thing stopping you from going to Fel and doing spawns for yourself is YOU. Stop blaming everything and everyone else for what you refuse to do. If you're not willing to get the scrolls for yourself, stop complaining.

People like me seem to be the 90% of the population of UO. Of course, they are all wrong and you are right.

If you want to get more powerscrolls in circulation and lower the price of them, maybe you could, oh, idk, DO FEL CHAMP SPAWNS.

I would. People like you are not letting me.

 

[OREOGL]

The comparison was that of numbers reflecting an overall situation vs anecdotal evidence. Ability to get scrolls IS supply and has direct influence on the price. If this is something you disagree with, we might as well start arguing about flatness of the Earth.

You're drawing a false premise from the information. Let alone misconstruing the relationship between price and power scrolls and relevance to what we are discussing. Higher prices are indicative of the publish in which caused a surge in demand, not the ableness to get them.

Further, your post was more geared to some "elaborate"implication of us "greedy PVPers wanting to keep power scrolls from non PVPers" hence the discussion of price to begin with. Again no relevance to the ableness to get them yourself.

 

[drcossack]

People like me seem to be the 90% of the population of UO. Of course, they are all wrong and you are right.

Non-pvp'ers? Trust me, the pvp'ers DO NOT CARE if people don't want to pvp. It's a very vocal minority that wants pvp removed from the game, just so they can have their easy mode powerscrolls. You already have "easy mode" in Trammel proper/Ilshenar/Malas/Tokuno/Ter Mur/Eodon. Why do you want to make the ONLY pvp-oriented portion of the game the same as the rest of it? Do you have ANY idea how much exclusive content Fel has received since the Fel/Tram split?

Here's the list (excluding anything that happened with the now-defunct factions):

1) Powerscrolls. That was added with what, Publish 16? We're coming up on Publish 100.
2) Abyssal Infernal and Primeval Lich.
3) VVV.

What exclusive content has Trammel been given? Off the top of my head, excluding all of the land masses:

1) Exodus
2) Shadowguard
3) Tram Despise
4) Underwater boss
5) Doom
6) The ENTIRE Stygian Abyss dungeon - Medusa, Slasher, Stygian Dragon.
7) The Titan town invasions from a couple months ago.
8) EM Events. You'll occasionally get an event in Fel, but they are very few and far between.
9) Some Tram-ruleset exclusive Champ Spawns and Peerless: Twisted Weald, Bedlam, Interred Grizzle, Labyrinth, Tokuno champ

Are you getting the imbalance in content yet?

I would. People like you are not letting me.

No, you're not letting YOURSELF do them. The pvp'ers have to find people working spawns. Some, like myself and @Acid Rain, will actually help you do the spawn. Others won't...but not all pvp'er thinks the same in regards to people at spawns.

Here's a challenge for you: Do some t2a Fel spawns, on whatever shard you want (that's not Atlantic.) Count how many you get done without anyone raiding you.

 

[Picus of Napa]

Yep, you see same people on every shard, exactly because they monitor spawns everywhere.

But surely, among a few thousand of those greedy Trammies, there should be enough to do spawning right?

The only way this is possible is if those 50 who have characters on every shard manage to prevent the rest of us from doing spawns.

I missed this ealier but I had to confirm, you think 50 people have pvp characters on every shard and are collectively holding back a couple thousand pvm people? Really?

 

[Pawain]

You mean to tell me that one template shouldn't be amazing at all content in the game?! Well would you look at that. Instead of complaining and asking for easy mode, this player made a template that can do a spawn AND defend himself. What a crazy thing.

Sampire

 

[railshot]

I missed this ealier but I had to confirm, you think 50 people have pvp characters on every shard and are collectively holding back a couple thousand pvm people? Really?

I was not the one who brought up seeing the same PvP crowd on every shard. But yes, that is petty much what is going on. Use scripts to monitor every shard. The moment you see activity, log in with your buddies and have fun.

 

[drcossack]

I was not the one who brought up seeing the same PvP crowd on every shard. But yes, that is petty much what is going on. Use scripts to monitor every shard. The moment you see activity, log in with your buddies and have fun.

It's ONE GUY who's done it (I don't know if he does anymore, I haven't seen his char in Despise in quite a while.) Even with his stealther camera, he doesn't raid as often as you think he does.

I've done two spawns today. One Despise (where I protected and ended up getting a Taming 3), the other Destard. I haven't seen a single player other than the guildmates I was doing them with.

 

[Corpin]

The comparison was that of numbers reflecting an overall situation vs anecdotal evidence. Ability to get scrolls IS supply and has direct influence on the price. If this is something you disagree with, we might as well start arguing about flatness of the Earth.

I would. People like you are not letting me.

Inb4 I'm banned from another thread... Patience is a virtue that just got reset to 0.

First off, given your complete ignorance on how champ spawns drop powerscrolls I know for 100% certain you have completed <1 champ spawn, and if you have worked 50 champ spawns and try to say you got raided 50 times then you are a liar or herp derpering and asking in gen chat for a rez at coon. We don't decide "Oh hey, let's go get 6 120 mages and 6 120 tactics real quick." Go run doom or medusa.. You will get a Halo and a Slither at the same rate we get the specific beloved scrolls you need for your pet. You make it out like they rain from the hellish clouds in fel. I will put it this way, in the past 10 years of doing spawns I have seen ~30 120 mages drop and that is very, very generous. Even if you bind the 110s and 115s to make a 120 you are looking at a very long term investment.

Pro Tip: When you see pvper's that just got done fighting over a spawn and they say in gen chat "Thanks for all of the 120s" it is total sarcasm. It is trash talk and is never true.

My infinite wisdom and guidance ideas to make the game better as inspired by Trammel Overseers:

1) A few people have mentioned in this thread of making a PvP only shard and the rest being all trammel. How about we make ONE all trammel shard with no transfers and call it Siege Carebear Retirement Home?

2) If killed by a pker in fel there is a quick calculation of your characters karma and if you retain your precious Lord title and have 0 murders you go to a special UO Heaven shard where only the purest of in game souls go.. a place with no gold, vanity items or even wandering healers because those certainly won't be needed.

3) Make champ spawns that drop powerscrolls a tram no pvp zone, but every single pixel of land elsewhere will be fel open pvp.

4) Since the evil IRL felons turned UO murders are the only ones that can get powerscrolls, make any skills scrolled above 100 Only apply to fel. If you eat 120 scrolls being in tram all skills will only be 100. In fel, you will automatically get the 120 skills you scrolled for activated. There, solved every single trammel based player's grief over powerscrolls.


I am so glad I could fix the game for everyone. It was super easy and very generous to all involved no matter which option you decide.

You do not need anything other than an imbued suit and gm skills to PvM and drool at luna stables. 120 skills, mind numbing number crunching to maximize a suit including anything that adds to hit points, DCI or any defense skill to stay alive is only needed by those that actually may encounter death in their gameplay, fel based players. You do not want player interaction, you want to show off how good that sweet sweet slither looks even though you do not benefit from ANY stat it gives you to pvm.

Your problem is not that you cannot pvp, it is that you do not understand character optimization or any interest in learning game mechanics.

Now, let the tears flow, I will float down the tear stream on a raft plucking 120 powerscrolls out of thin air in the warm salty embrace.

 

[petemage]

It's clear they (the ones in this thread) see it as a personal attack when they die to another player. They can't handle it emotionally. The blanket hatred towards all PvPers makes this clear. The issue isn't about dying or losing items. The issue is their egos are hurt and they rather not step foot in fel than have have their fragile egos tested.

Well, if it's only about egos, let's make powerscrolls insurable Should be no issue when its all about dying rather than someone stealing the rewards of your work.

 

[petemage]

There's maybe 50 active pvp'ers now?

If that's the case, it's even more silly. Add powerscrolls to Ilsh spawns for a month. You will easily see 50+ players grinding it on Atlantic alone..

But if it's BS' priority to protect the small PvP base and keep pissing of the PvM base, so be it. After all we are all grown ups and can freely decide which games we play and spent our money on.

 

[chester rockwell]

The whining in here is amazing.

You have 6 or 7 char slots on one account? Make one damb sampire and farm the fudge out of spawns on atl. Maybe wake up early and rock some islands. Blaming "pkers" for not getting scrolls is about tarded.

Supply and demand does work.....but you figure there are a brazilian tamers with a brazilian pets.....It's gonna take time for that demand/supply to find equilibrium to the point where YOU are happy.

Why aren't you tamers farming....whatever gives slithers and cameos.....more so *I* don't have to pay so much for them? I mean, you wanna cry about a 20 mill powerscroll, but I HAVE TO PAY WAY TOO MUCH FOR THE DAMB CAMEOS. Matter of fact, get all the tamers together and get a Duty Roster going. I want some sort of pet on the boss 24/7.

 

[petemage]

I HAVE TO PAY WAY TOO MUCH FOR THE DAMB CAMEOS.

Just wondering if there was ever a hidden character waiting there to reap your rewards after you did all the work for an hour? No? I thought so.Apples and oranges.

But the discussion in this threads shows pretty clearly that there is little point trying to explain that to some of the PvPer in here [bcolor=rgb(16, 16, 16)][/bcolor] Good luck to all the brave posters trying to.

 

[North_LS]

HI GUYS! just reporting in that i pulled a pair of 120s from t2a this morning without a hint of interference. i even took my time and picked up every last gold pile. I'm not too proud to scavenge gold. I kept scanning the horizon for the horde of bloodthirsty PKs riding to send me to my doom, but they never showed up. I'm beginning to think you guys are exaggerating about the IMPOSSIBLE TO DO CHAMP SPAWNS BECAUSE PVPERS WONT LET US issue. I'm beginning to think some of you who are yelling the loudest haven't even tried.

PS - they weren't good 120s at all. but they were still 120s.

 

[OREOGL]

Just wondering if there was ever a hidden character waiting there to reap your rewards after you did all the work for an hour? No? I thought so.Apples and oranges.

But the discussion in this threads shows pretty clearly that there is little point trying to explain that to some of the PvPer in here [bcolor=rgb(16, 16, 16)][/bcolor] Good luck to all the brave posters trying to.

Arguably there hasn't been a rational reason presented that would support this.

The argument made in the post you responded to is there's generally not someone there waiting to take you down like you and others persist on.

The hour seems like an exaggeration but if people indeed are taking an hour to finish any spawn, the likelihood of someone checking the spawn has increased 2x-3x.

That's not a flaw with the system though. It's a flaw with how you're doing them.

If you're also exacerbated by trying to do a spawn during prime time hours I'd adjust your expectations a little.

 

[petemage]

Arguably there hasn't been a rational reason presented that would support this.

The argument made in the post you responded to is there's generally not someone there waiting to take you down like you and others persist on.

The hour seems like an exaggeration but if people indeed are taking an hour to finish any spawn, the likelihood of someone checking the spawn has increased 2x-3x.

That's not a flaw with the system though. It's a flaw with how you're doing them.

If you're also exacerbated by trying to do a spawn during prime time hours I'd adjust your expectations a little.

He compared the cameo to power scrolls, which is just apples and oranges. Every PvPer can go earn an cameo and nobody can steal that from you. The same cannot be said about PvMers earning power scrolls.

Sure, keep blaming the players they can't run a spawn within 10 minutes. But I seriously doubt it's any healthy for the game in general. That again shouldn't be of my concern, but if I was BS, I would think twice why so many PvMers are demanding a peaceful way to get power scrolls for some pets. Making this a pain for PvMers will only drive PvMers (and their money) away to other games.

I don't really care about those pissing contests here for the little egos. I've done spawns too, and - indeed - didn't get raided more than 1 out of 4 times. But it was of little fun. There were no other people, and even if there were, everyone was super tight lipped since nobody trusts anyone in Fel. Even less fun is the 1 out of 4 when you get raided 10 vs. 1.

Put PS in Ilsh and I promise you it will be the most lively place in all UO with 5+ people there around the clock. No killing, no trash talking, no stealing, just fun game play for everyone to join and leave as they please. PvPers of course could just keep rolling like they ever did and PvP as much as they like in Fel.

 

[Picus at the office]

Remember those fun days of farming the vortex's looking for a legendary, you showed up and "steal" the spawn only to have some #sshat drag 15 mobs over yelling "OMG HELP" and cast invis....will be the same only worse.

 

[OREOGL]

He compared the cameo to power scrolls, which is just apples and oranges. Every PvPer can go earn an cameo and nobody can steal that from you. The same cannot be said about PvMers earning power scrolls.

Sure, keep blaming the players they can't run a spawn within 10 minutes. But I seriously doubt it's any healthy for the game in general. That again shouldn't be of my concern, but if I was BS, I would think twice why so many PvMers are demanding a peaceful way to get power scrolls for some pets. Making this a pain for PvMers will only drive PvMers (and their money) away to other games.

I don't really care about those pissing contests here for the little egos. I've done spawns too, and - indeed - didn't get raided more than 1 out of 4 times. But it was of little fun. There were no other people, and even if there were, everyone was super tight lipped since nobody trusts anyone in Fel. Even less fun is the 1 out of 4 when you get raided 10 vs. 1.

Put PS in Ilsh and I promise you it will be the most lively place in all UO with 5+ people there around the clock. No killing, no trash talking, no stealing, just fun game play for everyone to join and leave as they please. PvPers of course could just keep rolling like they ever did and PvP as much as they like in Fel.

This is where the fallacy seems to lie. Both are free to farm either, which is an important point we are trying to illustrate. Please see the example provided above about the 120s in T2A.

When points can't be made past this it generally carries on with generalizations of PVPers such as your post demonstrated.

And sure you could put them in ils, making them valueless and trashing the incentive for which powerscrolls were created. But it comes down to nothing more than people's willingness to do them in fel.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I respectfully disagree with you.

 

[Learn Me]

He compared the cameo to power scrolls, which is just apples and oranges. Every PvPer can go earn an cameo and nobody can steal that from you. The same cannot be said about PvMers earning power scrolls.

Sure, keep blaming the players they can't run a spawn within 10 minutes. But I seriously doubt it's any healthy for the game in general. That again shouldn't be of my concern, but if I was BS, I would think twice why so many PvMers are demanding a peaceful way to get power scrolls for some pets. Making this a pain for PvMers will only drive PvMers (and their money) away to other games.

I don't really care about those pissing contests here for the little egos. I've done spawns too, and - indeed - didn't get raided more than 1 out of 4 times. But it was of little fun. There were no other people, and even if there were, everyone was super tight lipped since nobody trusts anyone in Fel. Even less fun is the 1 out of 4 when you get raided 10 vs. 1.

Put PS in Ilsh and I promise you it will be the most lively place in all UO with 5+ people there around the clock. No killing, no trash talking, no stealing, just fun game play for everyone to join and leave as they please. PvPers of course could just keep rolling like they ever did and PvP as much as they like in Fel.

I'm going to make an assumption this is Pete from F8. IN which case thank you for contributing to this thread. I'm going to use you as a perfect example to support claims I've made in the past.

Pete is in a guild on LS and ATL that will field 10+ on a nightly basis. The times they have died on ATL, they will switch to LS to go spawn and legitimately field 15+ with alliances. In order to do the spawning and such they would like to do, they adjust their templates and recruit maybe more than some other guilds would like to recruit. Safety in numbers and guess what? Our guild will rarely have the numbers or templates to really have an enjoyable and competitive fight if they want to do a harrower or spawn on LS.

Please don't misconstrue this as trash talk or knocking any playstyle. I'm merely pointing out that just like players had to do when scrolls first came out, Pete and his friends are a great example of doing what they need to do.

And to those suggesting they should be able to do all content in the game on tamers because that's their favorite character...that you should be able to do a spawn on your tamer AND pets should do enough damage to defend your spawn too.... a samphire won't defend a spawn. A necro weave bard won't defend a spawn. Don't get what your point is? Adjust your strategy to what you'll face. Add friends to your endeavors that can protect your spawn. I can play my bokuto mage around yew gate all day. It's probably my favorite character to play right now, but guess what? I'm not going to take it into deceit to push into a grinder to take a harrower. Would be a pretty idiotic thing to cry about and I'm pretty sure my guildmates would have something to say if I took a worthless template to a situation like that. Just like I wouldn't take a no resist no parry necro weave mage open field.

 

[Learn Me]

I'll also reiterate the fact that pvpers aren't necessarily all dickheads. On LS I'll usually leave guilds like BSR alone and let them spawn because honestly, killing them wouldn't be fun and they make better bait. Same thing we did with a guild 420 on Pacific. Left them alone, encouraged them to spawn and do what they wanted and if they needed help they would get it. If there is obvious interest in learning and putting in an effort, it's going to get noticed. These guilds would try to defend their spawns from us and despite basically getting walked on, they wouldn't cry cheats and hacks and go home crying to not try again. They'd be right back at it, so we encouraged them to keep trying. Most of us want the pvp community to grow.

Also, someone noted returning players can't afford the scrolls they want? Guess what, I'm not sure when that's ever been the case for anyone that wanted to build a mage since scrolls came out. Take the price of scrolls, then add in the fact that it's next to impossible to find great armor since the multi clienters have been basically put out. Your scroll prices pale in comparison to what I can spend on a single suit for ONE character to pvp with.

 

[petemage]

This is where the fallacy seems to lie. Both are free to farm either, which is an important point we are trying to illustrate. Please see the example provided above about the 120s in T2A.

I don't get that. Of course everything is free to farm for everyone. But if you need to farm items in Fel, it's 100% not your choice if you are either forced into PvP or let your rewards taken away from someone who didn't help doing the actual work. Your only choice there is not to go for that item at all. That's not the case for the cameo, to get back to this specific example.

That you can get away with T2A spawns most of the time does not help the ones that were looking for some specific scrolls for weeks, finally got one of them but then get killed on the way back.

Also, power scrolls will never be valueless. They will be in demand with every new pet or character. They will always be a highly sought after item. For sure more affordable than today, but that can only be a a good thing if more players are able to have them. I personally couldn't care less whether they sell for 50m or 2m, so this argument is kinda moot for me.

I also still fail to see why so many PvPers are opposed to the idea of power scrolls outside of PvP zones, since it wouldn't even take any action away from them.

 

[petemage]

I'm going to make an assumption this is Pete from F8.

Nope, sorry, someone else.

IN which case [lots of words here]

Nice story though.. try to show some empathy. Walk a mile in those shoes I describe. But you rather start a pissing contest about who is boss in Atlantic PvP scene. Could. Not. Care. Less

 

[OREOGL]

I don't get that. Of course everything is free to farm for everyone. But if you need to farm items in Fel, it's 100% not your choice if you are either forced into PvP or let your rewards taken away from someone who didn't help doing the actual work. Your only choice there is not to go for that item at all. That's not the case for the cameo, to get back to this specific example.

That you can get away with T2A spawns most of the time does not help the ones that were looking for some specific scrolls for weeks, finally got one of them but then get killed on the way back.

Also, power scrolls will never be valueless. They will be in demand with every new pet or character. They will always be a highly sought after item. For sure more affordable than today, but that can only be a a good thing if more players are able to have them. I personally couldn't care less whether they sell for 50m or 2m, so this argument is kinda moot for me.

I also still fail to see why so many PvPers are opposed to the idea of power scrolls outside of PvP zones, since it wouldn't even take any action away from them.

Going to fel is entirely up to the individual. You may not be entirely unaffected by someone else, but that was the intention of adding power scrolls there. It doesn't make it the only choice of not doing it.

Itd be similar to asking for the cameo to drop in fel champs because someone didn't want to go to trammel or make a pvm char.

The example provided for looking for a specific scroll is a pretty extreme example. Not to say it may never happen, or hasn't happened, but wouldn't be a norm.

The opposition would come from the value drop against the average rate of consumption vs supply making the incentive next to nothing.

While they may not be completely valueless, you don't exactly see someone farming something like blight for gold either.

This aside it doesn't really address why they should be in tram, ils etc.

It's hard to make a basis off of "another player might attack me" when that was the intended function.

 

[drcossack]

If that's the case, it's even more silly. Add powerscrolls to Ilsh spawns for a month. You will easily see 50+ players grinding it on Atlantic alone..

But if it's BS' priority to protect the small PvP base and keep pissing of the PvM base, so be it. After all we are all grown ups and can freely decide which games we play and spent our money on.

No, you'll see A LOT more than 50+ people. Every "Trammie" that doesn't do spawns will be at every single Tram champ spawn, do a few, realize how hard it is to get the 120's they want, then stop doing it. The pvp'ers won't do the Ilsh spawns. We're not after the scrolls, we want to fight other players.

Just wondering if there was ever a hidden character waiting there to reap your rewards after you did all the work for an hour? No? I thought so.Apples and oranges.

But the discussion in this threads shows pretty clearly that there is little point trying to explain that to some of the PvPer in here [bcolor=rgb(16, 16, 16)][/bcolor] Good luck to all the brave posters trying to.

Like @North_LS did with t2a this morning, I did a solo Despise last night. Brought a sampire and my pvp char to protect. Sampire died 2x to a lag spike and whiffing, but I did the ENTIRE spawn without anyone showing up until Barracoon was already dead. Ended up getting a Swords 3 primer from it, and found I already had a Swords 120 in that sampire's bank. I think I might make another Sampire.

I also still fail to see why so many PvPers are opposed to the idea of power scrolls outside of PvP zones, since it wouldn't even take any action away from them.

Because it will. See my above reply.

Your scroll prices pale in comparison to what I can spend on a single suit for ONE character to pvp with.

Ditto. When I made my current LS suit (which I've had for a few years - my last upgrade was Dr. Specter's Lenses replacing the Hat of the Magi), the most expensive items were the Hawkwind Robe (100m+, which is about half that now) and Slither (still about 175m.) If I wanted to make a new suit, I'd add the Scholar's Halo at the very least, which is worth just as much as the Slither. If I wanted to upgrade my armor, can't even begin to guess how much I'd need to spend on the higher-end pieces. If I'm making a brand new pvp character, I'm spending close to another 100m on top of that: Mage/Eval/Resist are a given, then probably Mystic/Spellweaving/Focus because it'll be used for champ spawns. Then add a Spellweaving 3 Primer.

 

[petemage]

Well, to that point I can agree: It's totally not that black or white that I get raided every time. True. Since I exclusively play Atlantic, I might have one or two more raids than you would have somewhere else, so my view is also not reflecting the entirety of shards.

For the other point though it seems I have to live with getting killed once in a while anyway I said before I guess we are all on the same line about the likeliness of those things to actually happen.

I still think you @OREOGL and @drcossack could show a little more empathy towards those players playing the huge taming aspect of UO, trying to accomplish things themself / doing the actual content themself. Yes, you can buy scrolls, but that is not much playing the actual game content. You can also - perfectly valid - say "accomplishing things" might include learning some PvP. But I think for many people like me, without going endlessly into detail, that's just a non-starter option (at least in respect to UO). We are a bit out of luck there and and get told "git gud".

Personally, I'm even not that bad off anyway. I buy scrolls, I got some gold, have my own scrollbooks and also do solo a couple spawns once in a while. But.. well.. don't I have a point somewhere?!

 

[petemage]

Some say, the assumption of every content to be soloable is flawed. But if that's what you wish for, you gotta fight for it, right?