-
Hail Guest! We're looking for Community Content Contribuitors to Stratics. If you would like to write articles, fan fiction, do guild or shard event recaps, it's simple. Find out how in this thread: Community Contributions
-
Greetings Guest, Having Login Issues? Check this thread!
-
Hail Guest!, Please take a moment to read this post reminding you all of the importance of Account Security.
-
Hail Guest! Please read the new announcement concerning the upcoming addition to Stratics. You can find the announcement Here!
DEVs make UO consensual PvP only
- Thread starter Lord Frodo
- Start date
- Watchers 14
That was a good response, please, and I'm sure there are many of us on Siege that would agree, give your input on the next legitimate conversation that's had on future Siege changes. We need well thought out and reasoned ideas instead of the typical Brute Force resistance.Hi Garth,
There is a lot to reply to here.
I sort of feel I have covered all of these points within my other thread within my responses.
I do believe you have missed the point, and I cannot relate to where you are going with this, due to none of this being my playstyle or attitude as such.
What I will say, is the Siege ruleset is too extreme, and I have noted the reasons why for me, in my 2nd response in my Feluccan Shard thread.
{To then turn that into Siege is too hard for Carebear me, is a bit extreme - it is, but not for the reasons players say - they are using that as a Troll, to continue dictating their rules over Production Shards, by pretending there is an equal choice}.
If Siege itself were to be updated, to the current production scenario, with a Felucca ruleset overall, it would be perfect, we would all come flooding over.
But I did not expect any Siege players to be cool with that idea, so I went with the middle way.
You may not believe in the concept, but there is clearly room for it - and I believe the players.
- Yes, I would ditch everything I have.
- I hardly spend any of my time in Trammel, maybe 5%.
- I don't Ghost Cam spawns, I play them myself, and invite others to raid our team, including Harry - last night was Abyssal Infernal.
- I create events and action, and do stuff with our team, because that is what I find fun, and it has a positive knock-on effect of bringing action wherever I go.
I enjoy playing all the game content, I don't do Yew Gate - rarely.
- I'm just not that player you are aiming your rant at, but so far, Siege has not proven a solution that can work for me - see other post.
People wanting to impose their views on others is a problem in general in and out of game lately. It's OK if you hate something, others loving it is reason enough for it to stay. Fel is not going to become trammel 2.0, and I don't think people on siege want that touched either, else the population would be in for another dip. There's lots of other virtual worlds out there, why not see if you like one of those more?
this is simply not true, I would even argue that you can build chars and max out their skills even faster than on prodo these days.
Please if anyone reads this and thinks: "hmm I would like to give Siege a try but I really fear that finishing my character would take too long compared to prodo shards" Do not hesitate to contact me via PM and let me help you out. It is REALLY easy to finish a character on Siege within a matter of a week, some skills even within less than a day. Even if you only have 1 hour per day available I guarantee you that you will be able to finish your character within less than a month. It's really only a matter of having someone tell you how to use the RoT system properly and to your advantage.
*sadly looks forward to not geting any PMs*
the problem with what you just said.
You went from
"faster than prodo these days"
To " finish a character on siege with a matter of a week"
To "within less than a month"
Just FYI most toons on prodo shards are done in 3 days tops.
I actually joined Siege about a month ago. And I was having lots of fun, but it was taking forever to build my character. Stats go up at an outrageously slow rate, and skills, meh, a little slow. I got sick of killing zombies for days, and how damn slow my archer was so I haven't played again. I would love to come back, but I want to play the game, not raise one point of stats every 2 hours... or be killing zombies and getting killed by skeletons even after hours of playing. Also, I thought buying a boat and go out fishing would be a good start to make money, live of the boat, and by a house later. Well, the cheapest boat is 98k, which clearly I cannot afford.
I love the idea of Siege, I love it that everything is fel ruleset. But it is too difficult, and I have a life.
Thread has been cleaned up. Please keep all comments on topic without any personal attacks or insults. All posts that do not follow will be removed and warnings will be issued. Thanks for your understanding
Come back, I'll give you a boat and remove that obstacle.
Nothing changes.
Yes I did give several specific times because it hugely varies depending on several factors.
The biggest factor obviously is the time you are able to play per day. If you re-ead what I posted you will find that with every time frame I gave I made certain comments like "if you only have 1 hour per day available". Saying "I went from time x to time z" as if I was contradicting myself is a bit of a misinterpretation of what I actually posted.
I also said "I would even argue that you can build chars and max out their skills even faster than on prodo these days."
This still holds despite your 3 days on prodo argument. PM me for further info.
Oppsy
This Idea was shot down.
Kyronix Posts: 75Dev
11:15AM Flag
Lord_Frodo said:
@ Kyronix @ Mesanna has this ever been discussed? Is this something that you would be open to discussing? It gives the ability to add content anywhere in UO without trying to appease any special group or offend any special group. Everybody would have access to everything and be able to play UO as they wish.
Just so I'm understanding correctly - your suggestion is to remove Felucca as a rulset from all shards (except Siege & Mugen). Everyone is then presented with an opt-in for open PvP across all facets?
Kyronix reply:
This is basically how VvV works, We were apprehensive about allowing VvV in Trammel-rulsesets and ultimately decided against it after weighing the pros and cons. Your suggestion presents a similar, if not more expansive, list of concerns that make this type of change very unlikely. I do however appreciate your contribution and furthering of the discussion! That's what forums are for!
This Idea was shot down.
Kyronix Posts: 75Dev
11:15AM Flag
Lord_Frodo said:
@ Kyronix @ Mesanna has this ever been discussed? Is this something that you would be open to discussing? It gives the ability to add content anywhere in UO without trying to appease any special group or offend any special group. Everybody would have access to everything and be able to play UO as they wish.
Just so I'm understanding correctly - your suggestion is to remove Felucca as a rulset from all shards (except Siege & Mugen). Everyone is then presented with an opt-in for open PvP across all facets?
Kyronix reply:
This is basically how VvV works, We were apprehensive about allowing VvV in Trammel-rulsesets and ultimately decided against it after weighing the pros and cons. Your suggestion presents a similar, if not more expansive, list of concerns that make this type of change very unlikely. I do however appreciate your contribution and furthering of the discussion! That's what forums are for!
Did you ever ask anyone for help who actually knows about Siege? The least they could have given you was the info that you can gain 1 stat point every 15 minutes. Rather than focusing on stats, focus on skills while your stats will automatically gain.
I don't know why you had to kill zombies for days. It shouldn't take longer than a combined 5 hours to get from 0 skill to 70 in a weaponskill, which is when RoT comes into play.
Training is the same for all weaponskills: use mongbats from 0-40 and skeletons at yew graveyard from 40-70. Alternatively you can go to Blackthorn dungeon and train in the giant rats and vampire bats spawning in the room all the way to the south-west - they will take you from 0-70. This method might be a bit slower but it will give you a couple of minax artifacts while training. You can even do what people on prodo do and whack a spider with a poison-weapon but for that you would need someone to donate both.
I really do not wish to derail this thread any more than I already have so please PM me for the rest...
Oppsy
This Idea was shot down.
Kyronix Posts: 75Dev
11:15AM Flag
Lord_Frodo said:
@ Kyronix @ Mesanna has this ever been discussed? Is this something that you would be open to discussing? It gives the ability to add content anywhere in UO without trying to appease any special group or offend any special group. Everybody would have access to everything and be able to play UO as they wish.
Just so I'm understanding correctly - your suggestion is to remove Felucca as a rulset from all shards (except Siege & Mugen). Everyone is then presented with an opt-in for open PvP across all facets?
Kyronix reply:
This is basically how VvV works, We were apprehensive about allowing VvV in Trammel-rulsesets and ultimately decided against it after weighing the pros and cons. Your suggestion presents a similar, if not more expansive, list of concerns that make this type of change very unlikely. I do however appreciate your contribution and furthering of the discussion! That's what forums are for!
This was never a new idea.
Excuse me while I feign shock.
Captn Norrington
Stratics Forum Moderator
Moderator
Professional
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
I'd take a guess and say all the deleted posts were messing with the post numbering system until the forum updated itself or something. For example, I see a bunch of posts with the same numbers because deleted ones still count toward the numbering system for moderators. These two #102 posts, one is deleted and one isn't, but both still are numbered the same.
Forum s/ware reuses numbers perhaps? Look at post dates of the similarly numbered items. I bet date or date & time are different.
S/ware: Woohoo! Time to make a head explode ... I'll reuse this open number from that deletion.
there used to be. it seems it was removed
Funny to see Shalimar being mentioned. She hasn't played in years (way more than 5 years) as far as I know. Miss her running the NEW guild though.
Just to quote the answer from @Kyronix
I kinda like the idea. I would deffo go do more Fel content when I wasn't at risk losing the rewards of one hour gameplay to someone that didn't even contribute.
I don't think he didn't understood the idea since his answer focuses on the "PvP in Trammel" thought, while the idea here rather revolves around "PvM in Fel w/o getting killed".
I kinda like the idea. I would deffo go do more Fel content when I wasn't at risk losing the rewards of one hour gameplay to someone that didn't even contribute.
I got in the PvPing late in this game. I don't think I'm any good, but I can hold my own and be an asset in a group setting. I spent the majority of my UO career PvMing. I always found it fun and exciting to PvM in fel BECAUSE of the risk. Yea it would suck to lose stuff if I got PKd but that was WHY it was exciting, because there was that risk. It made for some good moments. Placing a well timed wall or field to get away. Getting my other n00b friends to help out anyway they could by casting fields or healing. It was exhilarating. Are there no other PvMers that feel this way? Everyone just wants to frolic into any area of the game and get all the rewards without any risk? Really??!?
Totally see your point. Sometimes the adrenaline is way better than that loot you got for the umpteen time.
But most of the time I was barely fighting when raided. It was rather ZERG, I'm dead within a minute, that's it. Some of those moments I even remember fondly, but I don't need it again and again and again.
Bottom line is about loosing the stuff. I PvP in other games and enjoy it. Not exclusively but rather casual. Only difference: I keep my inventory. It's still fun, it doesn't need the risk of losing my stuff to have a good fight.
Just curious, what are you bringing to fel that you'd lose and why are you bringing them?
At worst you should only be losing bandages, pots, apples etc.
I'm speaking of the rewards I earned while being in Fel. Let's say powerscrolls since they are the most valuable items.
I work to get them like an hour. I'm not that uber pro who solos a spawn in 10 minutes, so it's quite some work for me. I'm simply not willing to give that hour to some random group of kids ganking me, maybe standing hidden at the spawn just chillin. It's barely PvP when they wait for you to do the work and then run 5 on 1 or even worse on you.
Don't get me wrong, I'm also cool with the ruleset we have, but then I'll just don't do anything of real value in Fel. I'm not going to waste my time being some random sheep for the ganking squad. They need to enjoy ganking themselfs I guess then
Fel is a wasteland for a reason... and the idea here is kinda picking up on that.
Ah it seemed implied that you were losing stuff you already had.I'm speaking of the rewards I earned while being in Fel. Let's say powerscrolls since they are the most valuable items.
I work to get them like an hour. I'm not that uber pro who solos a spawn in 10 minutes, so it's quite some work for me. I'm simply not willing to give that hour to some random group of kids ganking me, maybe standing hidden at the spawn just chillin. It's barely PvP when they wait for you to do the work and then run 5 on 1 or even worse on you.
Don't get me wrong, I'm also cool with the ruleset we have, but then I'll just don't do anything of real value in Fel. I'm not going to waste my time being some random sheep for the ganking squad. They need to enjoy ganking themselfs I guess then
Fel is a wasteland for a reason... and the idea here is kinda picking up on that.
I'm not sure what spawn you're doing that would take an hour but seems exaggerated to make a point.
I think the bigger issue is that people have an irrational fear of dieing to anything since everything in PVM has an easy button. You're either saying all kill and using a mastery or using a sampire.
But the good news the content is optional.
Idk. I die in between and have to go to a healer. I was never good at anything but my mage. But I just wanted to add my point of view to the discussion. Realistically I think we all know it's not likely to happen.
Mages are okay for spawns but really only fielding and pvp. Your best bet is a sampire or regular necromancer.
I used a mystic necromancer. Seemed to work well for the most part. Highly offensive until you ran out of mana, which was generally pretty quick. But the healin stone was nice and also free.
Sleep and RC helps for defense a lot.
A group of PvMers can hold off PVPers and finish a spawn if they are well organized. The content isn't impossible in the face of a gank, it just requires a group and some strategy. It will be challenging. I don't think champ spawns should be soloable by someone immune to PKers. There is all of tram for that. There are also enough ways to make money in tram to buy the scrolls you need. You need to keep risk in this game. You need to make it dangerous to do some things. Let's not water this game down even more. It's okay to lose a spawn. Not everyone needs to win at what they do 100% of the time. It's not supposed to be a walk in the park. I really am just amazed that people really want this.
Fixed it for you because real PvPers didn't fight people they considered less skilled than them and a small group of well equipped PKers can take a larger group of PvMers that are set up to fight monsters not people.
interesting...so basically you're saying if I realize that I am better than my opponents I need to quit fighting them so I can be considered a PvPer, otherwise I would simply be a PK?
I'll give you a more realistic definition of PvP:
PvP is not about being honorable or not, it's about finding out who wins. End of. It's competition. Wether this competition has rules added to it or not is irrelevant. PvP can be anything from 1v1 to group vs group, and even includes fighting outnumbered.
When you defend a spawn the competition is about who can finish the spawn and who suffers more losses in the end.
When a group tries to do a spawn and fails to prepare for a raid then that's hardly the fault of the attackers.
To do a spawn within 15-20 Minutes all you need is one sampire (for the higher levels and the boss) while the rest of the group should play casters or other PvP chars. The casters will help with the lower levels (area damage; summons for the higher levels), and will protect the spawn when being raided. The only one who is purely PvM is the sampire. You don't even need to kill the attackers, all you need to do is keep them away from the bossmonster until you're finished and keep your group alive (fields will go a long way here).
in the example above you can of course replace sampire with any PvM char who can solo a bossmonster within a decent ammount of time. Use an archer if you feel he needs to be able to help out fighting off attackers, or some other template that has more PvP ability than your standard sampire...
if you do your spawns off-peak hours, you can take your time soloing them and not be bothered 90% of the time on non-ATL shards. map out when the pvp guilds like to play by watching the trash talk in general. either do your spawns around those times, or figure out where they're fighting by the chatter and knock one out someplace else while they're busy.
I've been killed for my scrolls zero times, caught a glimpse of a hostile and bailed on the spawn a few times, and helped out in a pinch by a PK a couple times. On that last point, I do a lot of my hunting, training, gathering, etc in fel. I dont get PKed often, but it happens - when it does, keeping good spirits about it is key. joke around about it, laugh about it, take it for what it is - just another death in a game where you can die any number of ways. Take it like that instead of foaming at the mouth at whoever killed you, and you might just find that they look elsewhere for a victim next time they come across you.
I've been killed for my scrolls zero times, caught a glimpse of a hostile and bailed on the spawn a few times, and helped out in a pinch by a PK a couple times. On that last point, I do a lot of my hunting, training, gathering, etc in fel. I dont get PKed often, but it happens - when it does, keeping good spirits about it is key. joke around about it, laugh about it, take it for what it is - just another death in a game where you can die any number of ways. Take it like that instead of foaming at the mouth at whoever killed you, and you might just find that they look elsewhere for a victim next time they come across you.
sounds like you should give Siege a try with that attitude! Contact me if you need help with anything.
I should have added "avoiding raids" to my list above, good point spelling that out the way you did!
I’m actually surprised more people don’t have this attitude. People get PKd and take it so personal and come on these forums and ask for consensual only PVP. It’s a game, you die, who cares?
Imagine this. You are a busy professional with a family. You get 1-2 hours to play a night. You spend that hour doing a spawn in hope to get a scroll, because no way you can afford buying it with post-taming revamp prices. At the end of your hour of play you get raided and all your effort gets taken over by someone else. Let's say it happens multiple times because during off-peak hours you work, and the only times you get to play are evenings. Would you keep a jovial attitude about it? Would you want to keep playing?
Join a guild, group up and finish the spawn faster.
This is 100% me.
Now imagine this - you are an experienced successful adult in life, and there is no way a bunch of kids are going to stop you doing what you want to do.
You'll team up with fellow like-minded busy professionals, and you'll use all your experience of life, teamwork, strategy, and you'll do whatever you want, and have fun doing it, with a great bunch of teammates. You'll even take on the kids for a laugh, and whip their arses all the way back to Trammel.
That would imply normal commerce. I don't play on Atlantic. Shard shields and vendor fees pretty much killed normal buying and selling on my shard, for expensive items especially so. If you need something, you get it yourself more often than not.
As I explained earlier, I have no interest in PvP. It is not fun to me. It is not because I never experienced it and just do not know what I am missing. It is simply not what I derive pleasure from at this point.This is 100% me.
Now imagine this - you are an experienced successful adult in life, and there is no way a bunch of kids are going to stop you doing what you want to do.
You'll team up with fellow like-minded busy professionals, and you'll use all your experience of life, teamwork, strategy, and you'll do whatever you want, and have fun doing it, with a great bunch of teammates. You'll even take on the kids for a laugh, and whip their arses all the way back to Trammel.
That is fine to be fair.
But you must stop spitting your sour grapes at everyone else, and let them have fun.
Just because you are trying to make a point of not enjoying yourself.
Do you know how many times I've done Medusa... Never once been lucky enough to get a Slither... not to mention if I did I'd more than likely need it for my own characters...
Do you know how many times I've done the roof? Best item I ever got was a lousy spellbook no one wants. And again... if I did actually get something good I have over 70 characters on GLs ..... I'd probably give it to one of them before I EVER put it up for sale...
On that same token... I've done plenty of champ spawns as well... and it's a rare day in hades before I ever get a scroll that is useful for my 12 tamers I have just on GLs... So yeah... your point is moot... I'd love to chain the roof or Medusa or any of that crap all day long but I don't have all day long to play... and I don't play UO solo. I can't actually solo anything but Lady M and that I found was FAR too much effort and was hard on my PC... and it just wasn't "fun"... I could probably solo the roof but again I don't find that sort of thing "fun"... I certainly can't solo a champ spawn... so yeah...
It's not that simple.
the following is meant as constructive criticism, so please don't read this as me belitteling you MalagAste:
do you play everyone of those 70 characters on a regular basis the same ammount of time? why not prioritise and pimp out the 3-5 characters you play the most and sell stuff to be able to buy scrolls? same with your pets. find the ones you absolutely use the most and scroll those up to 120.
the drops you can get from the roof would probably make you a good ammount but I believe the real money is with the loot you get from the boss monster corpse! so even if you don't get a drop you still get those tons of legendaries and those you should absolutely be able to sell.
noone said you have to do any of this content solo. in fact with a team of friends it will be faster and easier to do! the faster you are with your team, the more often you'll be able to do this stuff with the limited ammount of time you have. don't give up so easily! there isn't even a risk involved (except when you try champ spawns).
NO one else wants to go do champs in Fel... but on extremely rare occasions and getting anyone else to do the roof seems you have to be part of the "in" crowd to get an invite...
And I have a dozen or more character that are just fine... I want more scrolls to work on more pets so all my tamers have some decent pets, not just 1 or 2... And again drops are VERY few and far between and just like powerscrolls most of it is crap... as for selling the legendaries and crap I get from the roof I don't sell stuff on vendors... I wouldn't have a CLUE what's even worth anything... Most of that stuff I actually put away and use when I run into "new" or "returning" players who are in need of something... and dress them I do...
I don't sell my EM Drops hardly either... rarely I'll sell one but that's very rare. Most of them are kept in the Guildhall to commemorate the event. Which unlike some I attend because I like them and I enjoy the stories.
fair enough. it's probably less than unpopular with the people you play with. yet as many people have pointed out to you there are other ways to make money and then simply buy the scrolls.
why wait for an invite?! before the taming revamp I did it with a friend, both of us on tamers. one with a cu sidhe or rune beetle (extra damage) and the other with a greater dragon (tank). now with the taming revamp it has become even easier because you don't need GDs as tanks anymore.
it doesn't take much to figure out how to do the rooms, especially since today you can read up on it all on uoguide and here on stratics.
really man, all you need is one friend who likes to use a tamer too and you can do the roof as often as you like without belonging to any "in" crowd. after doing it a couple of times you will be able to cut a lot of time and the entire thing will only take about one hour at the most.
also if you're in a guild that does the roof only with an "in" crowd I would really not want to waste my time on people like that and leave to find some real friends. I might have misread your post there though...
the easiest way to get a feeling for what items are worth is using vendor search. find similar items and sell for a bit less if you want to make quick money. after a while you'll get a good feeling for pricing. you just need to do it, that's all. heck, theoretically you could make money by selling craftable consumeables - you just have to do it.
The point is I don't care to play UO solo... if I wanted to play a Solo game I have Skyrim and No Man's Sky for that... I'd rather play with a group of friends but sadly they just seem to vanish if you want to do something... or they do it when I can't... like on the weekends when I'm working.
If doing spawns in Tram actually had any beneficial use I'd do them... because I could always jump in and do them... Doing them in Fel is a pain... first you have to scope and see if there are a bunch of PKs about then you have to Go there walking of course... or whatever... no way to recall there... then you have to start it and hope that it's something you "can" actually handle... takes me a good hour or more to do it alone... and then hope you can finish before someone comes and kills out in .2 seconds, before you even know they are there or they come close and I just leave. Either way it's a waste of precious time... and again prefer not to do it alone..
As for selling crap I don't have all damn day to go pricing **** and all that bother... so it sits in a box collecting dust. I don't want to spend all day checking prices and going into that crap CC to put stuff on a vendor or swapping view to that hideous backpack whatever... IMO waste of precious game time with friends... or too damn boring ... at any rate I've played UO for 19 years without vendoring crap.... I'm not about to start doing it now. Very occasionally someone will spam they want to buy something or another... if they make it worth my while to stop what I'm doing and go get whatever it is they think they need right now.... I'll sell it... otherwise NO. Complete waste of time.
That's one thing I'm beginning to REALLy like about BDO you put stuff on the vendor and you sell it for either the high price, low price or something in between.... No guessing because it already knows what similar items sell for and it prices them. Done deal...
As I said before, there is absolutely no need to solo stuff. It can be done but you don't have to. Have you thought about making new friends that actually play at similar times? Or is your shard that dead that you can't find anyone at all? (If that is the case then spawns shouldn't be a problem either)
well...I don't really know what to say anymore...you're making it rather hard to help you...
If you hate looking up prices so much then just toss every artifact level item you have no idea what it's worth on a vendor for 100k or 500k a piece. You could even be lazy and do it in EC and thus make the buyer switch to EC if he really wants it. You would probably loose some potential money on an item or another but who cares? You'll have plenty to spend in no time...
Spoken like a true PvM killer because people skilled in true PvP mopped you up. PvPers fought other PvPers honing their own skills and helping like minded PvPers hone their skills they did not go around expecting a PvP fight from a char that was geared up to fight monsters. But we all know whay type of so called PvPer killed PvMers don't we.
Bring a Tamer to LS. We do things in small groups daily.
Right. Because the only way to enjoy the game is to kill other players.
Oh, and last I checked PvPers are not "everyone else". They are a small minority of players who derive their enjoyment of the game and a lot of gold from exploiting the majority.
Make scrolls available without forcing people to "interact" with PvPers and I'll happily leave you alone.
Ditto