Disparity between Artifacts & Crafted Items

[Eric Ravenwind]

It seems to me that with all the Lesser, Greater, Major, and Legendary Artifacts that can be found now, there is a great disparity between them, and crafted/imbued gear. I feel it would be good to make crafted/imbued gear just as good as the artifacts. Give crafters the ability to make better items with more than just runic tools. Allow us to add cool properties like "Damage Eaters" and such. Maybe increase the number of properties that can be imbued onto an item from the current five, to say, eight or nine. Increase the "weight" capacity for imbued items too. Make the distribution of properties more customizable not so random - more specific than the current "Reforging" technique.

I'd love some more feedback and ideas.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

Always been behind buffing crafters 100%.
One of my major current issues.

 

[Pawain]

Reforging gives damage eater. Would be nice if the point allowance for imbuing was increased for imbuing.

Then you could reforge and then imbue another property or 2.

 

[Keith of Sonoma]

Being able to imbue seven properties with an increase to 750 imbuing points would be pretty fair in my opinion. Along with bumping the maximum properties reforged by 2 when using kits/hammers.

 

[Maximus Neximus]

There definitely needs to be a thing for having 120 crafting skill and GM arms lore.

 

[Thrakkar]

It seems to me that with all the Lesser, Greater, Major, and Legendary Artifacts that can be found now, there is a great disparity between them, and crafted/imbued gear. I feel it would be good to make crafted/imbued gear just as good as the artifacts. Give crafters the ability to make better items with more than just runic tools. Allow us to add cool properties like "Damage Eaters" and such. Maybe increase the number of properties that can be imbued onto an item from the current five, to say, eight or nine. Increase the "weight" capacity for imbued items too. Make the distribution of properties more customizable not so random - more specific than the current "Reforging" technique.

I'd love some more feedback and ideas.

Being able to imbue seven properties with an increase to 750 imbuing points would be pretty fair in my opinion. Along with bumping the maximum properties reforged by 2 when using kits/hammers.

People are soloing most of the content and you're asking for better gear? What for? Artificial power creep? Just for the sake of getting better gear? I really don't understand, why someone would actually need better gear and why this would be a good idea...

 

[Eric Ravenwind]

I'm not saying "better gear", I'm asking that crafted/imbued equipment be at least equal to the artifacts.

 

[Keith of Sonoma]

People are soloing most of the content and you're asking for better gear? What for? Artificial power creep? Just for the sake of getting better gear? I really don't understand, why someone would actually need better gear and why this would be a good idea...

Just to give my crafters some "love".

 

[Thrakkar]

I'm not saying "better gear", I'm asking that crafted/imbued equipment be at least equal to the artifacts.

You asked for increasing the imbue weight and as well as increasing max properties on an item. That's better gear in my book...
You have to farm quite some time to get a clean legendary, which is also kind of useful in terms of property combinations. With the upgraded crafting, people would spill out OP items by the dozen...
I don't see, why this would be required in any scenario...

 

[Thrakkar]

Just to give my crafters some "love".

Isn't there a brothel in UO? I know, there is one in Ultima 9.


Maybe you could ask also in gen chat. There are probably more than enough people, who would help you RP'ing with that...

 

[Lore]

Crafting was always my favorite aspect of UO and I'm down for some love for it...

I think the problem is, how do you give rewarding content to players that all have legendary mules? I hate that harder to find mats fall from bosses. I'd love to see exotic materials coming from the new BOD system though.

 

[Eric Ravenwind]

You asked for increasing the imbue weight and as well as increasing max properties on an item. That's better gear in my book...
You have to farm quite some time to get a clean legendary, which is also kind of useful in terms of property combinations. With the upgraded crafting, people would spill out OP items by the dozen...
I don't see, why this would be required in any scenario...

I figured that making crafted/imbued gear equal to artifacts would require the increase in properties and weight increases. Any other ideas?

 

[Thrakkar]

I figured that making crafted/imbued gear equal to artifacts would require the increase in properties and weight increases. Any other ideas?

No. Because neither I see the point nor any reason.

I feel it would be good to make crafted/imbued gear just as good as the artifacts.

Why?
Do you really think, this would improve the game in any way?
If yes, in which way would that improve the game?

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

No. Because neither I see the point nor any reason.

Why?
Do you really think, this would improve the game in any way?
If yes, in which way would that improve the game?

All the Crafters are currently sat around with no content to play.
Their playstyle should have as much validity as Tamers or Sampires.

I personally, would far rather craft my own gear to use in-game, than hunt for it (happy to hunt the ingredients), I get more of a feeling of fulfilment from it.
So by that token, yes it would improve the game.
It would give an entire class something to do, and allow players more of a feeling of fulfilment in gearing their other characters - what a game is all about.

It's not a 1 fix solve all solution, but it adds content for different styles of players.

 

[Lore]

Crafting skill equate to what 1/5 of all the skills? Maybe 1/6th? That's a lot of skills with very little end game capped content.

 

[Smoot]

Have to disagree entirely.

The game has always had balance issues when its come to loot vrs crafted. One always outshines the other.

The crafting role is in a pretty good state rate now.

Reforging and imbuing is a compliment to global loot. Its an easy, and AFFORDABLE way to make a high quality suit, without having to make an entire suit out of legendaries.

Take stats like 5 hpi. thats a crafting stat. yes, you can get it in legendaries, but pair it with 8 stam 8 lmc and your up to a 150m piece. or you could just imbue that for next to nothing.
5dci 8 stam. use a spined kit, imbue, good to go. cheap. put that on a legendary and your again in the 150m to 250m range.

So yes, you could improve crafting. but youd also pay for it. I dont see any reason to mess with a good thing, especially when that balance has been so difficult to achieve over the years.
The bod system revamp, and the ever increasing amount of craftable arties like the new doom and eodon recipes even add utilitary to the base crafting skills, which for a long time admittedly was lacking.

Id say its pretty perfect. Unless you want to pay obscene prices for kits again. Does anyone really want that?

The only change i could possibly think of would be the ability to add more property weight via imbuing or kit charges, but it would need to increase uses expodentially.
7 property double titled reforge - 60 barbed kit charges
6 property imbued - 100 of each mat instead of 10.

I would limited imbued to 6 properties, because of how you can tailor the stats to exactly what you want them.

 

[cobb]

I agree with increasing imbuing weight and max properties. Around 700 sounds about right.

I would also like to see Splintering added to Reforging options.

 

[Lord Arm]

crafting/reforging can give up to 6 mods with low to medium resists. the new loot can give all resists 20 or more with 10, 12, 14 mods. it is kind of laughable when I think about its but too late now. they should of made new loot slightly better, 7 or 8 mods. then later make crafting a little better ect....

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

crafting/reforging can give up to 6 mods with low to medium resists. the new loot can give all resists 20 or more with 10, 12, 14 mods. it is kind of laughable when I think about its but too late now. they should of made new loot slightly better, 7 or 8 mods. then later make crafting a little better ect....

Agree with a lot of the sentiment in your post.

I don't think it's too late though, or I wouldn't be banging on about certain topics, I would have given up.

I personally hate the properties on the new legendary loot, I unravel it all because of them - Brittle, Antique, +50 stone, Cursed, etc etc.
I only collect Clean Legendries - which as you can imagine, is a slower process.

If they upgraded what was available through Reforging, I would be happy, as this is my preferred style of armour.
I like Reforged Armour best, because I actually play the game, and I play my characters heavily, I hate my armour wearing out all the time, I cannot even get 1 character geared, before I have to start regearing. So for me, Greater Reforged beats Imbued, and Looted style - but they should all be given equality, for the different styles of players.
I don't care how many kits it takes, that would just give more purpose back to the BoD system which has little or no purpose right now, even though it's a great system.
It doesn't have to match the top end Legendries, just come somewhere in the middle of where they are now, and top end legendaries.
I'd also like some of the missing properties to be included in the Imbue/Reforge system.

 

[Slappyjipper]

I personally haven't properly used my crafter for years now (since legendaries were introduced). I would love to use him again to be honest. I'm not sure imbuing needs much of a buff, it is still the best way to get decent PVM/non splinter PVP weapons and strong starter gear with low cost. Increasing the imbuing cap might result in silly weapons and dexxers are overpowered enough as it is. Reforging definitely could benefit with a buff. Collecting and completing BODs is a great part of crafting and no easy task but the rewards from them at the moment are totally useless. I say buff reforging. Perhaps when you reforge an item it is given an artifact level, such as lesser arti, greater, major or legendary with Legendary artifacts being quite rare (could take say 25 attempts to get a useable legendary). The better the runic the higher the chance the player may get a legendary. I think crafting should offer the same strength legendaries as high end boss loot but simply may require a lot of time and runic kits invested into it. I doubt it would take much dev time to adjust reforging to something like this.

 

[hardy-]

Its good as is, if you make legies stuff easy to get, all items will lose value, crafting still strong, a good reforged item still have place in the atual characters, the si8 mana8 hpi5 lmc8 +1 mod still very strong, the only weak part is the resists, but with 3 legies you can have 3 reforged itens like this.

Is very rare legies with 8 stamina 8 mana hpi5 lmc8 damage eater 9% for example, imagine add +1 or 2 mods?

90% of the legies have trash stats like sr1 hpr1 reflect phys and such, if you disconsider this and focus on the relevant status you will see how rare it's and how strong a good reforged suit still.

legies with 8 stamina 8 mana hpi5 lmc8 eater + resists + other mods are in the plats price range, you really think anyday will be posible you make a item with 1 plat price using a runic kit you can farm lots a day?

renember with the new bod system each account can get TONS of bods daily, and tons of runic kits, just get a soulstone put craft skill in it and use on all 7 chars twice a day (because now can hold 3 bods) or just put 0.1 of skill in the char get a bod and reset it on main worker.

Some of the Legies we see on atlantic pvp field, exist because was farmed for 2+ years without stop with players with 10+ accts 24/7 killing strong mobs, or with players running solo things like exodus with 2 full parties at same time.

You really think will work, and be cool to the game if you with just 1 worker make a item where was farmed in the 0.000001% chance ?

Legies in atlantic are the exception of the game, if you look a suit in yew moongate renember some items there worth 2-5 plat EACH PIECE, so imagine the very best of the game (items) are on atl because market, and its common have one or another item better then the craft standard.

With reforge i can buy like 100 cooper runic kit for 25m then make a whole suit with si8 mana8 lmc dci5 hpi5 in some parts and make 3 pieces with damage eater on the suit and run a suit full lmc, full hpi, high stam high mana 18% damage eater with 15 dci without jewels. With just 25m, 25m don't buy 1 piece with dci5 lmc8 stam8 mana8 hpi5 legie.

if you think the Artifacts are easy to get, i'm buying a gargish earring with lmc,stamina,mana,hpi,hci5 +mods, i made my atual with reforge and waste less then 2m to make it, if you can find a better legie pm me i can pay from 25-200m for a good one (don't need be very better then this one) .

Some guys telling about 7 mods imbue, imagine if you can just imbue, without any drawback an armor with lrc lmc stamina mana hpi mr hpr (in the current system) or a eater hci dci mana stamina lmc hpi like some guys are telling, one item like this actually worth 500m + , lets create it using like 2m ? , why anyone will go pvm?

 

[SugarMMM]

My smith is still standing in front of the Britain blacksmith shop waiting for someone that needs repairs.

She doesn't understand any of these abbreviations, %'s, acronyms or weird lingo. Bring back the old names that someone who spends all day with fire and metal understand!

 

[Thrakkar]

All the Crafters are currently sat around with no content to play.
Their playstyle should have as much validity as Tamers or Sampires.

I personally, would far rather craft my own gear to use in-game, than hunt for it (happy to hunt the ingredients), I get more of a feeling of fulfilment from it.
So by that token, yes it would improve the game.
It would give an entire class something to do, and allow players more of a feeling of fulfilment in gearing their other characters - what a game is all about.

It's not a 1 fix solve all solution, but it adds content for different styles of players.

All suits contain of at least a handful of crafted items. Most people run around with a crafted-only suit or a suit built around a handful of arties or legendaries. So I highly doubt, that crafters have no content to play with.
Try go farming a suit just made out of legendaries with no crafted gear. You'll farm years if you manage to archive it at all to get a full clean leg suit. Even if you make compromises and use the cursed/antique/etc. stuff, you'll farm weeks until you get a half balanced suit.

Less demand of crafters over the years has completely different reasons. The two most prominent being insurance & PoF. Which is also understandable from a certain point of view, because noone wants to loose high-end pieces. So basically you can blame AoS for introducing item properties. But without item properties there wouldn't be imbuing or reforging on the other hand. There's always a tradeoff.
In my opinion, if you really want to fix it, you have to go the complete opposite direction:

• REDUCE max property cound on items:
  • Magic items can have 1 (yes, just one) item property.
  • Legendaries can have 2.
  • Arties would need some rework. Probably also just 2, not really fond of a third. Those should probably be the items, which get properties, which aren't available for that certain item type. I.e SSI on armor etc...
    
  • Adapt imbuing as well
    • Legendary crafters should be able to add a single item property.
    • There should be only a slim chance of adding a second property. You shouldn't be able to retry such an attempt. Add maybe some consumables from BoD rewards, which can increase the chance.
  • Reforging would need an overhaul. No idea here at the moment.
• REMOVE PoF as a whole. (Or maybe just change it to be a temporary buff for an item, which then would loose durability at a slower rate.)
• REMOVE insurance. (including bless deeds and already blessed items). There. I said it. I'm expection a mob with pitchforks & torches showing up at my doorstep.
• Make all items start with 250 max. durability & change how repair works:
  • An item repaired by a legendary crafter should loose 10 max. durability. Can be repaired 25 times.
  • Less proficient crafters will get an increased penalty. No idea, i.e. -20 max. durabilty at GM.

I'm pretty sure I forgot some things, which would need adjustment because of that as well.

And yes, those changes would be rather extreme. The endgame would change dramatically. Soloing content would probably not be possible anymore.
Also those changes would be quite time consuming to implement. So they never won't happen anyway. Plus, we would have to somehow get rid of all those 5+ items, which flood the system right now.

But that's how I imagine, would improve the whole game. Not just improve the situation for crafters. Because properties would mean something. You can't wear a god-suit anymore, which has all the properties. You'd have to make decisions, whether you go defensive or offensive. Tanky or glass cannon. Or something in between.
Plus people would learn to loose items again. Wether because they can't recover the corpse or an item has worn out. Just like in the golden years

 

[Keith of Sonoma]

All suits contain of at least a handful of crafted items. Most people run around with a crafted-only suit or a suit built around a handful of arties or legendaries. So I highly doubt, that crafters have no content to play with.
Try go farming a suit just made out of legendaries with no crafted gear. You'll farm years if you manage to archive it at all to get a full clean leg suit. Even if you make compromises and use the cursed/antique/etc. stuff, you'll farm weeks until you get a half balanced suit.

Less demand of crafters over the years has completely different reasons. The two most prominent being insurance & PoF. Which is also understandable from a certain point of view, because noone wants to loose high-end pieces. So basically you can blame AoS for introducing item properties. But without item properties there wouldn't be imbuing or reforging on the other hand. There's always a tradeoff.
In my opinion, if you really want to fix it, you have to go the complete opposite direction:

• REDUCE max property cound on items:
  • Magic items can have 1 (yes, just one) item property.
  • Legendaries can have 2.
  • Arties would need some rework. Probably also just 2, not really fond of a third. Those should probably be the items, which get properties, which aren't available for that certain item type. I.e SSI on armor etc...
    
  • Adapt imbuing as well
    • Legendary crafters should be able to add a single item property.
    • There should be only a slim chance of adding a second property. You shouldn't be able to retry such an attempt. Add maybe some consumables from BoD rewards, which can increase the chance.
  • Reforging would need an overhaul. No idea here at the moment.
• REMOVE PoF as a whole. (Or maybe just change it to be a temporary buff for an item, which then would loose durability at a slower rate.)
• REMOVE insurance. (including bless deeds and already blessed items). There. I said it. I'm expection a mob with pitchforks & torches showing up at my doorstep.
• Make all items start with 250 max. durability & change how repair works:
  • An item repaired by a legendary crafter should loose 10 max. durability. Can be repaired 25 times.
  • Less proficient crafters will get an increased penalty. No idea, i.e. -20 max. durabilty at GM.

I'm pretty sure I forgot some things, which would need adjustment because of that as well.

And yes, those changes would be rather extreme. The endgame would change dramatically. Soloing content would probably not be possible anymore.
Also those changes would be quite time consuming to implement. So they never won't happen anyway. Plus, we would have to somehow get rid of all those 5+ items, which flood the system right now.

But that's how I imagine, would improve the whole game. Not just improve the situation for crafters. Because properties would mean something. You can't wear a god-suit anymore, which has all the properties. You'd have to make decisions, whether you go defensive or offensive. Tanky or glass cannon. Or something in between.
Plus people would learn to loose items again. Wether because they can't recover the corpse or an item has worn out. Just like in the golden years

Good post. I'm not saying I agree with it, LOL, but definitely some "food for thought".

 

[Capt. Lucky]

This is a tough one. I maxed out every craft in the game so I feel your pain. I just don't ever see them allowing us to craft artifacts and if you can't craft artifacts then crafters will always be behind the curve. I think maybe more flexibility in reworking artifacts might be doable. But we only see as many artifacts as we do is because with 1000s of people hunting the RNG will kick in eventually. When I do get an artifact it'll be brittle or weigh 125 pounds or some absurd thing I toss anyway. Most artifacts are usually seriously flawed in some way. I personally would be a lot more interested in the current craftables if say we could powder imbued stuff. Personally I'm not interested in anything I can't use powder on unless it's not available in any other form or I can make it myself pretty easily. Like jewels. It's tough to find good jewels without durability so I don't have a lot of choice. But if we could just crank out high end items that would really take a lot of the fun outta the game for me. Being able to powder imbued stuff would get a lot more of my gold in circulation to crafters, all other things remaining the same.

 

[Capt. Lucky]

All suits contain of at least a handful of crafted items.

The suits on my main guys might have a couple of crafted items on them. But only if I can use powder on them. Doesn't really promote crafted items. Once I have it, it's forever.

 

[DJAd]

It is a tough one! I do agree that crafted armor / weapons could you some tweaking to bring them up at bit. However I don't think they should be as powerful as looted "magic" items.

As for weapons they are OK at the moment. You hardly ever see anyone using loot weapons, apart from splintering in PvP. 99% of players used crafted weapons usually a mix of reforging / imbuing. Adding more item weight or more imbuing slots might cause things to become un-balanced (especially in PvP). For example all my sampire weapons are 100% elemental reforge and the other mods imbued. I would love more mods but are they really needed?

Jewels is another one. You can get many amazing jewels from loot but they are all antique. At least the 8+ mod ones are. They are fine for PvP but not so much for PvM (due to the way antique works).

Armor most definitely should have more imbuing weight and maybe more than 5 slots to imbue would be good here. Most people seem to be running full legendary suits from the "brittle" armor. Maybe a couple of crafted parts thrown in there to hit certain caps. My sampire for example uses a couple of nice legendaries and then the rest in crafted parts as I was able to add on 5 HCI and 5 DCI along with HPI.

I would love to see more control over reforging. Maybe at 120 smith/tailor/imbuing you could pick the mods rather than having to burn through kits like crazy.

 

[DJAd]

I would also like to see Splintering added to Reforging options.

#controversial

 

[Mervyn]

I would say 6 mods, 550 intensity.

When you look at legendaries, yes they have 800 intensity etc, but a lot of the mods you don't actually use.

Splintering to reforging? hmm, as long as it can only be achieved with "structural reforging" which would make the item brittle.

 

[hardy-]

imagine everyone with crafted weapon splint30 light50 hld50 hml44 di40

 

[hardy-]

I would say 6 mods, 550 intensity.

When you look at legendaries, yes they have 800 intensity etc, but a lot of the mods you don't actually use.

Splintering to reforging? hmm, as long as it can only be achieved with "structural reforging" which would make the item brittle.

We actually have 6 mods with woodland, wood weapons and with reforge, just imbue + enhance.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

imagine everyone with crafted weapon splint30 light50 hld50 hml44 di40

Imagine them all with 14 mods looted armour...

Oh.

 

[Merus]

The easier way to do this is adding a new level of ingredient to the reforging or imbuing tables, similar to a relic fragment that works like a whetstone.

New item should come from unraveling legendary pieces with greater than 1200 imbuing weight and require 120 skill for a 20% success chance. Applying the new material to a GM crafted base piece would upgrade the base piece and allow additional slots, mods and intensity to be crafted onto the piece.

Acquiring good legendary items would still be required. It would give a use to mismatch property pieces and give crafters the ability to craft better (more comparable) pieces.

 

[GarthGrey]

Crafted items should have always been the most powerful items around.

 

[hardy-]

Imagine them all with 14 mods looted armour...

Oh.

how much 14 mods armor are floating the game actually? lets be honest, hey resists for me at least don't count as mod, since you can make a 70s suit with imbued armor, without need waste a slot on armor.

How much of the 14 mods are used in the same template? a sr1 od don't add nothing to a mage for example, like a lrc doesnt add nothing to a dexxer, and so on.

with woodland you can make 6 mods items with 6 useful mods (si mi lmc hpi mr hpr(or di or hci)) (mana mr lmc lrc hpi hpr(or hci if tankmage or dp)

 

[Mervyn]

We actually have 6 mods with woodland, wood weapons and with reforge, just imbue + enhance.

yes i know, but woodland is noon med but does not give any LMC bonus plus one of the mods would have to be HPR.

 

[hardy-]

yes i know, but woodland is noon med but does not give any LMC bonus plus one of the mods would have to be HPR.

cant you add mage armor then enhance? not sure about that. Like a reforge with some huge weight item like mr4 or hpr4, then imbue 3 mods add mage armor on npc then enhance hpr, or try hci/di

So you can make a Lmc8(or 10) mr4 mana8 lrc20 hpr2 med item with good resists

 

[Mervyn]

yes you can, but that takes up a mod (0 intensity but 1 mod)

I might do one of my famous vids on crafting at some point.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

how much 14 mods armor are floating the game actually? lets be honest, hey resists for me at least don't count as mod, since you can make a 70s suit with imbued armor, without need waste a slot on armor.
How much of the 14 mods are used in the same template? a sr1 od don't add nothing to a mage for example, like a lrc doesnt add nothing to a dexxer, and so on.
with woodland you can make 6 mods items with 6 useful mods (si mi lmc hpi mr hpr(or di or hci)) (mana mr lmc lrc hpi hpr(or hci if tankmage or dp)

Do you have any idea what it does for gimp or hybrid templates over pure templates, due to the fact they can use every single one of those mods?
Why do you think there are no more pure templates left?
So yes, they/we are all using them.


Edit;
Anyway, no use crying over spilt milk as such.
There is no way they will rollback looted items.
But why not recognise looted items are so far ahead of crafted items, it would be good to bring players who like other playstyles back into the game.
I've not even suggested the crafted gear matches looted gear, I've suggested it goes halfway between where it is now, and where looted is.

 

[hardy-]

Do you have any idea what it does for gimp or hybrid templates over pure templates, due to the fact they can use every single one of those mods?
Why do you think there are no more pure templates left?
So yes, they/we are all using them.

less then 10% of playerbase have the 2+ plat items, and because that you want all items worth 10m? make the craft more stronger will just make "pure templates" more weaker, the only thing i can think that can really improve the game, maybe is limit player to have only 1 1200+ weight item equiped.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

less then 10% of playerbase have the 2+ plat items, and because that you want all items worth 10m? make the craft more stronger will just make "pure templates" more weaker, the only thing i can think that can really improve the game, maybe is limit player to have only 1 1200+ weight item equiped.

You seem to think crafted items just appear by the 1000 out of thin air.
They take just as much if not more time and effort than farming them.
It isn't just about the BoDs, its the resource collection, the time doing them all, and then the luck factor.
Both styles involve the same time-sink, so why not be able to be equal for the effort?

For example, my guild tonight, knocking off a few roofs, I may do some carpentry bods.
They could knock off 2-5 roofs, get a few legendaries, couple of great artifacts, make a couple of hundred million, I'll be lucky if I do say 50 BoDs, which almost goes nowhere towards the final reward total (50/1150 towards a Heartwood Runic Saw).
From that example of our play tonight, PvM almost looks way too easy.

 

[hardy-]

You seem to think crafted items just appear by the 1000 out of thin air.
They take just as much if not more time and effort than farming them.
It isn't just about the BoDs, its the resource collection, the time doing them all, and then the luck factor.
Both styles involve the same time-sink, so why not be able to be equal for the effort?

For example, my guild tonight, knocking off a few roofs, I may do some carpentry bods.
They could knock off 2-5 roofs, get a few legendaries, couple of great artifacts, make a couple of hundred million, I'll be lucky if I do say 50 BoDs, which almost goes nowhere towards the final reward total (50/1150 towards a Heartwood Runic Saw).
From that example of our play tonight, PvM almost looks way too easy.

You are getting runic kits wrong, i think no one use the standard banking to get saws, and its so better just use reforge + imbue with a low level saw. yew saw are what 500k? i don't do carp bods, but for example, with bs bods, i make like 200 bods daily, get over 15 powder of fort daily, 15*90k = 1.3m only in powder of fort, then i can buy any runic i want and make 2 nice reforged + imbue pieces each runic

each roof all rooms and such will take what? 40-1h so 5 rounds of roof = 5h and you only do 50 bods? and only got 50 points? i think you need start be a better crafter.

Again i never did carpentry bods, im a blacksmith guy, i usually collect near 200 bods daily in my chars, only fill the good ones to reset and get colored ones, then i make the bods without lbods where i will get a runic or a powder, while i stock the ones i can use in a lbod, i usually fill all iron small since iron its so cheap, and use they to turn in to get colored one, and toss the large iron bods away.

Your reference with the carpentry bods x pvm was very darkness, its like tell you did 50 bods while a guy killed 10 mongbats in the same time, or a guy tried do a spawn got raided, win nothing and lose insurance in the same time.

Just because your friends have a good group to roof, and you in place of do roof with they bank sitting, doenst mean roof is overpowered, mean you need use better your time.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

You are getting runic kits wrong, i think no one use the standard banking to get saws, and its so better just use reforge + imbue with a low level saw. yew saw are what 500k? i don't do carp bods, but for example, with bs bods, i make like 200 bods daily, get over 15 powder of fort daily, 15*90k = 1.3m only in powder of fort, then i can buy any runic i want and make 2 nice reforged + imbue pieces each runic
each roof all rooms and such will take what? 40-1h so 5 rounds of roof = 5h and you only do 50 bods? and only got 50 points? i think you need start be a better crafter.

Never said I was crafting to be competitive, just doing it for fun, but my figures are realistic for me.

No-one uses standard banking to get saws, so how do they do it ?
You're telling me that the top end carpentary bod reward is worthless?

Your reference with the carpentry bods x pvm was very darkness, its like tell you did 50 bods while a guy killed 10 mongbats in the same time, or a guy tried do a spawn got raided, win nothing and lose insurance in the same time.
Just because your friends have a good group to roof, and you in place of do roof with they bank sitting, doenst mean roof is overpowered, mean you need use better your time.

I've compared top end crafting with top end pvm.
Nothing darkness about it.

 

[Smoot]

Never said I was crafting to be competitive, just doing it for fun, but my figures are realistic for me.

No-one uses standard banking to get saws, so how do they do it ?
You're telling me that the top end carpentary bod reward is worthless?




I've compared top end crafting with top end pvm.
Nothing darkness about it.

heartwood quests. the same people botting 20 accounts to farm legendaries, are the same scripting those quests. which brings price down to a point where actually doing the bods on 1 character just isnt worth it. Theres also no reason to use heartwood at all, except maybe for wooden shields. even that your usually better off going with yew. you can get a ton of them with many more chances at an actual usable item, and at the rng and mechanics of the runic bumping the intensity up. Its more profit in the long run.

Im not saying i agree with it, but its the same reason your arguing crafting should be "better". those legendaries wouldnt be nearly as common as they are right now if it was 1 character at a time farming them. you can run roof with even 4 people and not get 1 useable legendary. Those bulk legendaries arent even coming from the roof. they were coming from 2 years of non-stop afk bot farming of putrifier. putrifier was nerfed. now its afk bot farming of abcesses.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

heartwood quests. the same people botting 20 accounts to farm legendaries, are the same scripting those quests. which brings price down to a point where actually doing the bods on 1 character just isnt worth it. Theres also no reason to use heartwood at all, except maybe for a wooden shields.

Im not saying i agree with it, but its the same reason your arguing crafting should be "better". those legendaries wouldnt be nearly as common as they are right now if it was 1 character at a time farming them. you can run roof with even 4 people and not get 1 useable legendary. Those bulk legendaries arent even coming from the roof. they were coming from 2 years of non-stop afk bot farming of putrifier. putrifier was nerfed. now its afk bot farming of abcesses.

I get your point on both Heartwood Quest and Legendary farm botting, both happen.

But where does this leave the normal players?

Wouldn't it be easier to deal with those scripters/botters, then to allow them to destroy the game, and then make every aspect of the game so we have to script it?

So the crux of yours and Hardy's argument is;
Legendaries have been farm botted for 2 years solid and are now all over the place, so we cannot buff crafting to be in any way useful because you are scared it will add to what is already there?

This game needs to stop designing itself around what the botters/scripters have done, and start designing itself around what would be fun for your normal solo player.
Then maybe your normal solo player could actually have some fun.

 

[Lore]

Game was much more fun with top-tier crafted armor and top-tier weapons from PvM content. Too many slots these days too.

 

[Smoot]

I get your point on both Heartwood Quest and Legendary farm botting, both happen.

But where does this leave the normal players?

Wouldn't it be easier to deal with those scripters/botters, then to allow them to destroy the game, and then make every aspect of the game so we have to script it?

So the crux of yours and Hardy's argument is;
Legendaries have been farm botted for 2 years solid and are now all over the place, so we cannot buff crafting to be in any way useful because you are scared it will add to what is already there?

This game needs to stop designing itself around what the botters/scripters have done, and start designing itself around what would be fun for your normal solo player.
Then maybe your normal solo player could actually have some fun.

right now, the "normal player" buys a pretty good legendary for 3 to 20 mil, and crafts the rest. that will get the average player into all game content. even a viable pvp suit. Maybe throw in a new doom artie (some are craftable btw) and cleanup tally to really top off the suit.

like it or not, theres little enforcement of botting / scripting. Honestly i play very little because theres just not much content thats "worth" doing anymore. pvpers and pvmers tho both seem to prefer easily available items bought cheap off a vendor rather than having to do the content themselves. perhaps why it hasnt been enforced.

The point is that crafting now serves a purpose for most players, and is very affordable.

If what your asking played out, it would be the same type of post in a years time because we would just have guys with 20 automated accounts doing what was needed to get the 1% best crafted gear, and the "normal player" still wouldnt be able to come close to being able to do that. (remember the 211 stam reforged craze of 3 years ago, still only a handful had those best crafted suits)

This is why im saying a change would only cause problems. taking cheating out of the game is a nice thought, but realistically its never been done.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

This is why im saying a change would only cause problems. taking cheating out of the game is a nice thought, but realistically its never been done.

I know the cheating cannot be taken out, I disagree crafting has a point really, everyone I know just throws on full suits of legendries, maybe crafting the odd weapon to be a bit more customised.

In this context, the damage is done, crafting has no point, so you are blocking out an entire style of play, because of issues with PvM.

Again, I've also not said that crafted items should match the top end legendries, I've said make them a bit more attractive, so those who enjoy making and using their own gear, have more incentive to do so, and be more competitive in-game.

I'm trying to widen the game out, for the crafters, rather than keep blocking out playstyles.

 

[Keith of Sonoma]

The easier way to do this is adding a new level of ingredient to the reforging or imbuing tables, similar to a relic fragment that works like a whetstone.

New item should come from unraveling legendary pieces with greater than 1200 imbuing weight and require 120 skill for a 20% success chance. Applying the new material to a GM crafted base piece would upgrade the base piece and allow additional slots, mods and intensity to be crafted onto the piece.

Acquiring good legendary items would still be required. It would give a use to mismatch property pieces and give crafters the ability to craft better (more comparable) pieces.

Very interesting concept!

 

[Lore]

Crafting shouldn't require PvM. Use the new BOD system.