Disparity between Artifacts & Crafted Items

[Fridgster]

Sorry deleted my own post some how so I'll redo (came out better anyway)

Haha, yes you reforge, then you pof to 255, then you imbue

@Fridgster i'll accept an apology in writing.

That only works when not using structural or fundamental (both of which give brittle/can not repair). If you have ever done reforging with runics lower than copper then you would know that you can't obtain most over-capped stats without those options. Since you were speaking of the brittle tag I assumed (as most would) you where speaking of items that had that tag. If the item is brittle or can not repeair then you can not pof it.

 

[DJAd]

the solution is to have the items spawn with what they would normally spawn with (35-80 durability).

I would imagine items that are brittle with 80ish durability would then have roughly the same lifespan as "antique" 255/255 items therefore they already kind of exist. Hard to know for sure without testing.

They need to change the brittle / imbued tag to be the same thing as it's confusing for new players.

 

[Anonymous UOPlayer]

I am fully aware that you can't pof imbued armour .

what u said then: "But you wouldn't have to replace your armour if you used reforged/imbued armor, that is the point, it would make some people who wanted to replace their armor often use legendaries, while others would not need to."

in other words u think imbued/reforged armor does not need 2b replaced. u were clear as 2 what your incorrect statement was.

what u say now: "I am fully aware that you can't pof imbued armour"

note differences. use of pof, in this game, is what makes something last literally forever. not the figurative forever u made up which seems 2 mean 'more than u want it to.' i only can guess someone u don't like has something u don't.

so, yeah.

 

[Mervyn]

I have no idea what you're trying to say sorry. Can you phrase it more simply? I am saying that imbued/reforged armour doesn't need to be replaced, as you can pof it to 255 (before you imbue it)

 

[Fridgster]

I have no idea what you're trying to say sorry. Can you phrase it more simply? I am saying that imbued/reforged armour doesn't need to be replaced, as you can pof it to 255 (before you imbue it)

Your statement is only true if you don't use anything more powerful that powerful reforging. Anything stronger will result in can not be repaired or brittle. Both of which prevents one from POFing it.

Any runic lower than a copper runic will require you to use higher than powerful in order to obtain over-capped mods (which is the reason most people reforge something.).

 

[Anonymous UOPlayer]

I have no idea what you're trying to say sorry. Can you phrase it more simply? I am saying that imbued/reforged armour doesn't need to be replaced, as you can pof it to 255 (before you imbue it)

nice try.
no, not really.
how many times have u reversed urself now?
anything u can't pof will go away sooner or later. just matter of time, use, & what u fight (grizzle, anything with the equipment attack, which some EM monsters do).

i guess if u make up your own meanings of words/terms u can say anything u want and be right. is that why u compared urself 2 jesus earlier?

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

This post has gone south, you're all confusing me!

From my perspective, although Imbued armour is nice for the control of what you make, it only equates to Lesser Artifact on the loot scale, and a lot of important properties are not possible, making it limited. What really gets me on Imbued Armour, is the 255/255 non pofable durability limit, for me, this means it isn't permanent, and is going to wear down very fast, therefore I don't want it or won't use it, I have enough issues gearing 7 characters, and upgrading their armour, without stuff wearing out on me (and making an entire suit pointless).

This is the reason I genuinely hate all Looted equipment, even the legendaries (I hate all of the negative properties - there are no properties worth using imo) - so the only thing I will even think about collecting are completely Clean Legendaries.
I go through phases of Rage, and just unravel everything else - you can ask my guild to confirm.

Now Reforged Armour was the best for me - you could make armour that was pofable, and you could keep repairing it back up to max - this is the style of armour I like on my characters. But reforged armour is just so weak in comparison to everything else now.

Forget the "we must have all armour wear out thing to maintain a need for it" - it is hard enough to gear all characters, and give them the variety of gear/weapons you want for all their situations.

Maximum, under the current system, I only ever have 1/7 characters geared, and even he isn't where I want him, making 6 of my 7 characters pretty much unplayable.

This is not fun, or what I pay for.

Give me some decent crafted armour I can use, so I can play the game please.

 

[Eric Ravenwind]

I was hoping this thread would not get derailed, but it did. Please stick to the topic.

 

[Anonymous UOPlayer]

We shouldn't forget the existence of property caps. There's a limit as to how much your awesome legendary equipment matters when there's caps. Don't get me wrong I'd love to have all-Legendary equipment that gets me to every cap at once. But the point is how awesome my gear can be is subject to the same limit whether I get there by crafted gear or looted gear. If the caps have been entirely lifted then please someone let me know!!!!!

 

[Anonymous UOPlayer]

Quite honestly there's no merit to this discussion.

The existence of caps means there's only so awesome you can get no matter what your gear is. The fact that there's different paths to becoming as awesome as you can get is a good thing, not a bad thing -- the only disagreements on this will come from players whose playstyle consists primarily of 'winning' at other players' expenses and who can't see themselves as 'good' unless they can feel better than someone else and who feel their own paths are inherently superior. The combination of crafting and loot leads to many different ways equipment can work leads to a bewildering variety of forever vs temporary items, one which clearly exceeds the understanding of many who post on this thread to support this merit-less proposal. Most Legendary items are worthless due to combinations of properties than go poorly together. As to scripting: Even assuming you could prove that the PvMers getting good legendary items (not that I've seen any myself) are scripting, remember that neither crafting nor resource-gathering for crafting (be it blacksmithing, imbuing, or any other form of crafting) are immune from scripting.

So, yeah. Next, please.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

Quite honestly there's no merit to this discussion.

The existence of caps means there's only so awesome you can get no matter what your gear is. The fact that there's different paths to becoming as awesome as you can get is a good thing, not a bad thing -- the only disagreements on this will come from players whose playstyle consists primarily of 'winning' at other players' expenses and who can't see themselves as 'good' unless they can feel better than someone else and who feel their own paths are inherently superior. The combination of crafting and loot leads to many different ways equipment can work leads to a bewildering variety of forever vs temporary items, one which clearly exceeds the understanding of many who post on this thread to support this merit-less proposal. Most Legendary items are worthless due to combinations of properties than go poorly together. As to scripting: Even assuming you could prove that the PvMers getting good legendary items (not that I've seen any myself) are scripting, remember that neither crafting nor resource-gathering for crafting (be it blacksmithing, imbuing, or any other form of crafting) are immune from scripting.

So, yeah. Next, please.

"Most Legendary items are worthless due to combinations of properties than go poorly together."
Agreed - so why are we having to play this game, and collect tons of items that don't work? It's the most inefficient, mind-numbing, least fun way to play the game in existence.
I've refused to do it, which cuts out a huge proportion of gameplay for me, which is a shame, because gearing your characters is meant to be fun.
So given monster loot is so poor (in terms of finding good parts to go together - compensated by the fact it has every mod in existence so you throw anything together), and so unfun, at least allow the crafters to bring back a fun way of making better suited gear.
I've never said ignore the caps - I've said, bring the crafted gear a little closer to the current monster loot, so you can at least feel you're making something decent.

"As to scripting: Even assuming you could prove that the PvMers getting good legendary items (not that I've seen any myself) are scripting, remember that neither crafting nor resource-gathering for crafting (be it blacksmithing, imbuing, or any other form of crafting) are immune from scripting"
Yes - We've already covered this point - both do exist, though currently we're in a phase where PvMers have been scripting solidly for 2 years, due to that's where the loot is, and no-one wants crafted gear. But as already mentioned - the game shouldn't be designed around scripters anyway, it just makes it impossible for normal players and forces everyone to script.

There is lots of merit to this discussion, to those players who like to craft, and want more validity to their playstyle.
Just because you don't see it, the world doesn't revolve around you.

 

[Anonymous UOPlayer]

"Most Legendary items are worthless due to combinations of properties than go poorly together."
Agreed - so why are we having to play this game, and collect tons of items that don't work? It's the most inefficient, mind-numbing, least fun way to play the game in existence.
I've refused to do it, which cuts out a huge proportion of gameplay for me, which is a shame, because gearing your characters is meant to be fun.
So given monster loot is so poor (in terms of finding good parts to go together - compensated by the fact it has every mod in existence so you throw anything together), and so unfun, at least allow the crafters to bring back a fun way of making better suited gear.
I've never said ignore the caps - I've said, bring the crafted gear a little closer to the current monster loot, so you can at least feel you're making something decent.

"As to scripting: Even assuming you could prove that the PvMers getting good legendary items (not that I've seen any myself) are scripting, remember that neither crafting nor resource-gathering for crafting (be it blacksmithing, imbuing, or any other form of crafting) are immune from scripting"
Yes - We've already covered this point - both do exist, though currently we're in a phase where PvMers have been scripting solidly for 2 years, due to that's where the loot is, and no-one wants crafted gear. But as already mentioned - the game shouldn't be designed around scripters anyway, it just makes it impossible for normal players and forces everyone to script.

There is lots of merit to this discussion, to those players who like to craft, and want more validity to their playstyle.
Just because you don't see it, the world doesn't revolve around you.

huh? this post is a huge fail.

1-i am big supporter of crafting. i've got like only 2 chars & between them they have 3 "legendary" items. oh, wait, 2 legendaries, 1 major. the rest r all crafted. weapons, armor, jewelry.

2-i wuz clear that there's a place for both, looted gear & crafted gear.

3-"PvMers have been scripting solidly for 2 years." evenif u could prove this which u can't, resource gatherers have been scripting 4 way longer and in a way more obvious & prove-able way. but i still support crafting big-time & don't think it's useless & am confident the crafters i work with don't script....so why r u responding to stuff i didn't say as though i said i thought crafting pointless? ur post is fake.

i have no view on ur idea 2 enhance crafted items 'cos one like i said i use them anyway so i think they r fine as is and two most of this thread is dudes trying 2 take things away from people they don't like.

the 'disparity' this thread assumes exists exists only if u forget an awful lot. property caps, random quality of loot vs directed quality of crafting, crap quality of the vast majority of loot, etc.

so yeah: fail.

no merit 2 this discussion. let people pursue the paths that work best 4 them. 4 me it's craffted items, mostly.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

no merit 2 this discussion. let people pursue the paths that work best 4 them. 4 me it's craffted items, mostly.

There is no path currently that works for me...

Now what?

As I said, it used to be reforged armour.


{I've been on the verge of quitting for the last year and a half over this and other issues I try and bring up here on the boards for the Devs to see. I'm only kept in the game by the kindness of my guildmates who just provide me with top level suits, even though I hate the style, it keeps me able to play to a minimum at least}.


As for Disparity, here is an example. If you cannot see the difference between this, and a crafted item, you are blind.
[Auction] - Clean Legendary Bracelet Auction Ends 05/08/17 7pm central
This bracelet is perfect - it is obtainable by PvM loot, you can get nothing like it from crafting.
I would pay 1-2 plat for this if I had the gold.
I would be happy to be able to craft something half as good as this...
But I cannot.

 

[MalagAste]

There is no path currently that works for me...

Now what?

As I said, it used to be reforged armour.


{I've been on the verge of quitting for the last year and a half over this and other issues I try and bring up here on the boards for the Devs to see. I'm only kept in the game by the kindness of my guildmates who just provide me with top level suits, even though I hate the style, it keeps me able to play to a minimum at least}.


As for Disparity, here is an example. If you cannot see the difference between this, and a crafted item, you are blind.
[Auction] - Clean Legendary Bracelet Auction Ends 05/08/17 7pm central
This bracelet is perfect - it is obtainable by PvM loot, you can get nothing like it from crafting.
I would pay 1-2 plat for this if I had the gold.
I would be happy to be able to craft something half as good as this...
But I cannot.

Looks to me like that guy selling that won the drop lotto... 99.9% of the time Legendary's are not only not clean... but they seem to lack something important... like lacking HCI on a Dexer item... or FC/FCR on a Mage item... which IMO is a fatal flaw... Without being able to obtain full HCI or FC/FCR for dexers/mages just not worth it...

Not everyone gets the awesome drops. Takes forever and more than luck... favor of the very fickle RNG... which seems to hate me with a passion. While I do get discouraged as well I get more discouraged by people that do nothing but complain... don't ever want to go and do things but are fast to cry about not getting stuff...

We'd all like to craft stuff that is closer to the insane stuff we can loot but that just feeds the creep... There is still plenty of reward for crafters... BOD rewards to start with... People are always wanting the hot new items... the new dyes, the new cloth, etc... they also want the things for making specters Lenses and such... they want POF... and many other things. Crafting is not dead yet... it can always use a boost...

But think of this if you get more uber items like the bracelet etc... the game becomes uber easy and then it's boring..... you've obtained all there is to obtain for your suit and it doesn't break or need replaced... what is there to do? Mobs become simple... boring...

So they boost the mobs making them more insane, giving them way too many hp and specials and it's back to crying about it being to hard... so they add more uber weapons, armor, jewels... etc... and we start all over...

One day maybe you will get lucky and win the drop lotto. I've gotten a nice piece or two... I've considered quitting from time to time... but that was because I am fed up with the grind..... grind, grind, grind... for nothing... 10 trips to the roof nothing to show for it... etc... gets old after awhile. But the one thing that keeps me here is friends. They are the treasure in UO IMO.

If you stop worrying about who has what and such it makes the game more fun.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

Looks to me like that guy selling that won the drop lotto... 99.9% of the time Legendary's are not only not clean... but they seem to lack something important... like lacking HCI on a Dexer item... or FC/FCR on a Mage item... which IMO is a fatal flaw... Without being able to obtain full HCI or FC/FCR for dexers/mages just not worth it...

Not everyone gets the awesome drops. Takes forever and more than luck... favor of the very fickle RNG... which seems to hate me with a passion. While I do get discouraged as well I get more discouraged by people that do nothing but complain... don't ever want to go and do things but are fast to cry about not getting stuff...

We'd all like to craft stuff that is closer to the insane stuff we can loot but that just feeds the creep... There is still plenty of reward for crafters... BOD rewards to start with... People are always wanting the hot new items... the new dyes, the new cloth, etc... they also want the things for making specters Lenses and such... they want POF... and many other things. Crafting is not dead yet... it can always use a boost...

But think of this if you get more uber items like the bracelet etc... the game becomes uber easy and then it's boring..... you've obtained all there is to obtain for your suit and it doesn't break or need replaced... what is there to do? Mobs become simple... boring...

So they boost the mobs making them more insane, giving them way too many hp and specials and it's back to crying about it being to hard... so they add more uber weapons, armor, jewels... etc... and we start all over...

One day maybe you will get lucky and win the drop lotto. I've gotten a nice piece or two... I've considered quitting from time to time... but that was because I am fed up with the grind..... grind, grind, grind... for nothing... 10 trips to the roof nothing to show for it... etc... gets old after awhile. But the one thing that keeps me here is friends. They are the treasure in UO IMO.

If you stop worrying about who has what and such it makes the game more fun.

I get your post, and I have been wrestling with this with myself for the last year, and it's been a losing battle.

Remember I am a PvPer also, and we need half decent gear to compete.
What you are effectively telling me, Is I won't be able to compete on a gear basis - the only way I can make your suggestion work, is if I quit half the game content and quit PvP, which I have tried, but it hurts. I live in Fel, I play in Fel, my whole guild is based in Fel, I have to watch everyone else playing the game content, without the gear to play, it sucks.

I also have 7 characters to gear, as I've said, I've only managed to gear 1 to a half competitive state. Again, this leaves me with 6 unplayable characters, and unable to enjoy much of the rest of the game content to a standard I wish to play at.
When you ask me what that standard is - I would expect to be able to solo all game content, like I see my guildmates doing, I have that ability, and ambition.
I'm nothing like, I can hardly do anything, so I sit and watch my guildies playing all game content, I join them for the team stuff, but a lot of the time, I just need to chill, and want to solo. So I sit there bored. There is nothing for me to play for - crafted armour will not help me progress in the game, and I hate the style of looted armour for all the reasons I've mentioned.

I get the point where you say if you stop worrying - believe me I've tried - but for a PvPer that is like saying - "If you give up" - I cannot accept that, I've tried.

Re that item, I can show you many more - I can show you enough to discourage all crafters from even bothering, and it has for myself and everyone I know.


Going to add an edit; - I don't know how you guys can be concerned about Item Creep. A whole flipping avalanche has already happened, it's here, it's now, it's ingame, and it's wiped out crafters and users of crafted items. Only pure PvMers can sit here right now, and quote item creep as an excuse to block crafters.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

Yall know you don't need legendaries for a good suit. For example my DS sampire runs a suit:

150/190/90 140 hp resists maxed 45 hci 40 dci 40 lmc with 30ssi all on suit. This is more than enough to take out the baddies. My suit consists of 4 imbued pieces 1 greater magic item and 1 major artifact.

Did I mention that Sampires are a complete overpowered abomination that is destroying all the other classes, and I wouldn't be seen dead using one?
Separate topic I know.

What I am trying to achieve, is raising the abilities of other classes, so they can equally play the game content.
Pure Mages.
Pure Warriors.
Crafters.
Rogues.

(Tamers, Sampires, Hybrids, T Hunters are all fine right now, and do not need anymore work or attention).

In my mind, a lot of fun classes and playstyles, have been left out and left behind, I just want to improve their game experience - as tbh, they are the characters I enjoy playing.

 

[Eric Ravenwind]

Did I mention that Sampires are a complete overpowered abomination that is destroying all the other classes, and I wouldn't be seen dead using one?
Separate topic I know.

What I am trying to achieve, is raising the abilities of other classes, so they can equally play the game content.

I mean no offence, but ya got the Wrong Thread. This is about the difference between crafted items and artifacts. You should start a new thread addressing your particular issue.

 

[Pawain]

Pure Mages.

You want to make a really nice mage for PvM you need Doom and Roof artifacts. Then for the 4 pieces that are not drops you need some pieces that are well beyond what you can craft for mana regen and resists.

But, you do need rings and bracelets that are imbued to finish it off. Unless you hit the lotto there.

I do use a reforged shield for DCI and mana regen.

 

[MalagAste]

Did I mention that Sampires are a complete overpowered abomination that is destroying all the other classes, and I wouldn't be seen dead using one?
Separate topic I know.

What I am trying to achieve, is raising the abilities of other classes, so they can equally play the game content.
Pure Mages.
Pure Warriors.
Crafters.
Rogues.

(Tamers, Sampires, Hybrids, T Hunters are all fine right now, and do not need anymore work or attention).

In my mind, a lot of fun classes and playstyles, have been left out and left behind, I just want to improve their game experience - as tbh, they are the characters I enjoy playing.

I feel you really I do but if I can hop on my crafter and whip you out the biggest baddest bestest suit to compete with others in PvP then why would anyone bother doing any of the dungeons or champs or anything at all??? Which is really essentially 80% of the content in UO?

I mean why would you want to circumvent most of the content for something that is seriously only 5%? If you take all the skills and all the content in the game PvP boils down to about 5% or less.

Hunting, Fishing, Crafting, Deco/Design, Collecting (which is now getting FAR beyond it's allotment for time and energy the DEVs give it)... and so many other things in UO besides PvP... But I do understand. If I were to site any one thing that gets more from the DEVs than PvP... it would be Collecting... which IMO has taken over and ruined the EM Events.

Would I like to be making high end uber gear on my crafter? You bet... Do I think it would help the game? Not really.

If items get any more ridiculous there won't be anything to do in UO anymore.

 

[Anonymous UOPlayer]

There is no path currently that works for me...

Now what?

As I said, it used to be reforged armour.


{I've been on the verge of quitting for the last year and a half over this and other issues I try and bring up here on the boards for the Devs to see. I'm only kept in the game by the kindness of my guildmates who just provide me with top level suits, even though I hate the style, it keeps me able to play to a minimum at least}.


As for Disparity, here is an example. If you cannot see the difference between this, and a crafted item, you are blind.
[Auction] - Clean Legendary Bracelet Auction Ends 05/08/17 7pm central
This bracelet is perfect - it is obtainable by PvM loot, you can get nothing like it from crafting.
I would pay 1-2 plat for this if I had the gold.
I would be happy to be able to craft something half as good as this...
But I cannot.

sorry still fail.

that 1 item u show is great but really u don't need it 2 complete. orni, which u likely have since u pvp, does just as well if not better. true that's loot but still not part of new loot system. item with just half of those properties also will do just as well. also, again, caps! no matter what u can only get 2/6 on mage 4 example. does a mage really need healing? or fucus?

like someone else said that item's like winning a lottery: kinda like getting a super high end result from a valorite runic hammer. (crafting.)

exactly how awesome do u want 2b 2 consider urself viable? can u only play if yur superman? when u say no path works 4u: r u sure the problem isn't where yer trying 2 go?

 

[Pawain]

sorry still fail.

that 1 item u show is great but really u don't need it 2 complete

Ok you win. We should be able to craft an item with that many properties. Since it is not needed to compete we should all be able to make it with that amount of properties and intensities.

And you can but all the lottery tickets you want. A valorite hammer will not make this piece.

 

[Anonymous UOPlayer]

Ok you win. We should be able to craft an item with that many properties. Since it is not needed to compete we should all be able to make it with that amount of properties and intensities.

And you can but all the lottery tickets you want. A valorite hammer will not make this piece.

View attachment 77112

not clean. oh have we moved goal posts now? lol negatives r ok? what about cursed or antique?
now that i think about it, i saw valorite made samurai plate that was actually really close 2 that, actually, so try again.
also ever see what happens when u wear plate w/o lower req and u get hit by one weaken?
honestly that item is good but not over-powering and i'd still put my trust in working with a crafter rather than gambling. i pvm 2 sell & only rarely find a piece i can use myself.
the other was much better but, again: even that only goes so far.
as 2 the idea of increasing the crafting maxxes i have no opinion save that if they do this it should be as rare as it is from loot & not obtained from re-forging or imbuing or anything else where u can pick properties.

 

[Pawain]

not clean.

I'm fine with Brittle. It is the same as Imbued. If reforging could make that piece, I doubt we would have this thread. But, reforging will not make anything near it.

It will easily last longer than I will wear it.

 

[Pawain]

Just found this on Navrey. Not a lotto winner but I can not craft anything near it. Ill stick it in one of my armor chests.

 

[Fridgster]

What if...

They increase the weight by 50-100 and allowed 6 instead of 5 mods and allowed those with 120 imbuing adjust any mod the piece has even if said mod was one that an imbuer normally couldn't add such as hci damage eater et al. The abilloty to adjust these mods would still be limited by the imbuing weight. For example if you looted a piece that had 4 hci and 4 dci a legendary imbuer could raise those two mods to 5. Would make loot from overland critters a lot more valuable. As it stands there are very few reasons to hunt anything besides bosses.

 

[Mervyn]

How is boosting reforging going to help against item creep?

I tell you the truth, the answer is to decrease the durability of brittle items, perhaps 70 is too little, people play with replicas at 150, lets make named arties have 150

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

How is boosting reforging going to help against item creep?

I tell you the truth, the answer is to decrease the durability of brittle items, perhaps 70 is too little, people play with replicas at 150, lets make named arties have 150

Hi Mervyn,

Boosting reforging will not help against item creep - but item creep has already happened, we have missed that bus, the horse has bolted from the stable, you either now try and get it back - your approach, or you live with it, my approach. I say make reforging more fun, make it more powerful, don't let it be as powerful as current looted items, but give crafters an incentive to want to craft and use it - I would if it were made a bit better. Or - you have to pull everything back to reforge level, which I don't think people will go for.

Onto the entire philosophy of having negative properties, and negative aspects in a game. Why? No other game does.
All other games in their game designs, look to have positive positives, you chose one or the other, but both options are positive feel-good options.
Negative game design is not needed, it is not fun, why give something to someone in one hand, and take it away in the other?
Just completely design the game, without the need for negatives in the first place.
I get the argument that people believe if they are putting something overpowered in in one aspect, it needs drawbacks - but no, not drawbacks that demotivate players to even use stuff in the first place.
There are such huge negatives in so many aspects of UO gameplay, players do not even consider them - this is so inefficient to the player, to the game to even have them in, and to a players enjoyment of the game. Just don't even have them.

 

[Lythos-]

On a low to high level of intensity it should be imbued, reforged and loot. While I don't think one should be able to imbue the amount of mods a legendary has, it should be closer than what it is.

If reforging had 1 less mod and slightly lesser intensity than a legendary it would beef the crafting industry up while some people would still prefer that perfect mod suit that artifacts would give. Bumping imbuing closer to reforging would also initiate more crafters AND put more people into SA to farm the ingredients again all while keeping the market thriving for perfect artifacts.

To me, it doesn't seem that hard to figure out how to make things work. Whatever changes should be made well before EJ goes live.

 

[Mervyn]

I am actually not sure what happened with Britle, when the curse "Brittle" first came out, the items did indeed spawn with fairly low durability. In fact let us quote the uo bible (uo wiki) directly:
"Brittle items have low durability and can not be fortified."

Also let us look at reforging:

• Structural Re-Forging:causes the item to have more magical power, but the item will be Brittle
  • Fortified Re-Forging: causes the brittle item to have higher durability

So why are these artifacts spawning wih max 255/255?
I think at some point everyone whined that these items are all "useless", probably because the majority of stratics users were incorrectly convinced that brittle items lost durability faster than normal items. Example:
Tidy up
Soooo at some point the devs put the durability of Brittle items to max 255/255, one extreme to the other. Without really doing the calculation that these items (with the exception of splintering weapons) will last forever, forever meaning, not possible to break in a single human being's lifetime.

@Bleak @Kyronix can you look into moving the durability down to 150 to match replicas please?

 

[Mervyn]

Onto the entire philosophy of having negative properties, and negative aspects in a game. Why? No other game does.
All other games in their game designs, look to have positive positives, you chose one or the other, but both options are positive feel-good options.
Negative game design is not needed, it is not fun, why give something to someone in one hand, and take it away in the other?
Just completely design the game, without the need for negatives in the first place.

I can't remember who said it, but someone quoted their daughter. "If both of the basketballs teams worked together, they'd score a lot more hoops"
I think you're missing the point of a game.

I'm pretty sure in other games you can indeed blow someone else's head off with an AK-37

 

[Anonymous UOPlayer]

Just found this on Navrey. Not a lotto winner but I can not craft anything near it. Ill stick it in one of my armor chests.

View attachment 77116

You must have the most-convenient luck of any UO player alive. At any rate, pointing to isolated pieces (and honestly, like you yourself admitted, that's no lottery winner and I'd still prefer something Imbued so that I can work with my individual needs rather than try to tailor myself to a piece I happen to pick up), does nothing with my argument -- or the real purpose this thread appears to have been started with (see the post I'm about to make).

 

[Anonymous UOPlayer]

How is boosting reforging going to help against item creep?

I tell you the truth, the answer is to decrease the durability of brittle items, perhaps 70 is too little, people play with replicas at 150, lets make named arties have 150

And ultimately we see what this thread is about: The PKs see people with items they want. The game mechanics no longer make it as easy for them to take it as they did once upon a time. Therefore they pursue their goal, taking something away from someone else, by other means.

As I repeatedly have noted, there's no actual merit to the discussion and I refer others to my earlier posts for the particulars.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

I can't remember who said it, but someone quoted their daughter. "If both of the basketballs teams worked together, they'd score a lot more hoops"
I think you're missing the point of a game.
I'm pretty sure in other games you can indeed blow someone else's head off with an AK-37

I disagree, I don't think I am.
I completely agree with having negative results for failure.
You lose a fight, you lose something, you lose a spawn, you lose something, you get beaten by a boss, you lose something, you get something stolen from you, you lose something - I am fine with the concept of winning and losing, and having a penalty for failure, and reward for success.
But all of that is when you actually play the game itself, and attempt to achieve something.
When you are crafting, or building armour, or finding loot, it is a complete extreme to build so many negatives into this stage of the game. As I said - no other game does this.
Building armour, and gear for your characters to go out and do stuff, is meant to be the fun part, it does not need the negatives, in fact they ruin it for players, as does the entire complication of the system.

And ultimately we see what this thread is about: The PKs see people with items they want. The game mechanics no longer make it as easy for them to take it as they did once upon a time. Therefore they pursue their goal, taking something away from someone else, by other means.
As I repeatedly have noted, there's no actual merit to the discussion and I refer others to my earlier posts for the particulars.

.

I'm going to disagree here as well to be fair.
The PKers are usually the most advanced players of the game, they PvM in their sleep.
They are the ones who have earned the gold (or bought it which I think is sad), they are the ones with the items.
If the PKers/PvPers are moaning about items, there usually is an issue - it's just that other players haven't seen it yet.
With regards to items, I have better items than most, and my guild can supply me with the best - but I still complain on here, because I believe the gaming principle is wrong, I am trying to make the game better for the players. I don't actually have to be here, I can sit and be a complete success ingame with my guild, and watch the game die.
Or I can try and help point out the obvious flaws, which mess up my fun, and the fun of others.

 

[DSC Napa]

I can sit and be a complete success ingame with my guild, and watch the game die

You say that as if it is not inevitable. I really think it is shocking how much support people expect from a title that was in development when everyone was still playing Doom.

 

[Anonymous UOPlayer]

I

The PKers are usually the most advanced players of the game, they PvM in their sleep.
They are the ones who have earned the gold (or bought it which I think is sad), they are the ones with the items.
If the PKers/PvPers are moaning about items, there usually is an issue - it's just that other players haven't seen it yet.
With regards to items, I have better items than most, and my guild can supply me with the best - but I still complain on here, because I believe the gaming principle is wrong, I am trying to make the game better for the players. I don't actually have to be here, I can sit and be a complete success ingame with my guild, and watch the game die.
Or I can try and help point out the obvious flaws, which mess up my fun, and the fun of others.

Umm...No. I've seen plenty of PKs ignorant of non-PK mechanics in my day. Mentalities like yours are one reason UO never advanced as far as it should have despite the incredible opportunity Trammel provided us. For some reason, policy continually proceeded as though those who nearly wrecked the game (note how many players left once non-PK competition was available) should be the driving force behind most of the decisions made for it.

I realize I can do nothing to fight the bizarre and pathetic cultural tendency to assume the meanest are the strongest and smartest, except what I am doing.

 

[Mervyn]

Umm...No. I've seen plenty of PKs ignorant of non-PK mechanics in my day. Mentalities like yours are one reason UO never advanced as far as it should have despite the incredible opportunity Trammel provided us. For some reason, policy continually proceeded as though those who nearly wrecked the game (note how many players left once non-PK competition was available) should be the driving force behind most of the decisions made for it.

I realize I can do nothing to fight the bizarre and pathetic cultural tendency to assume the meanest are the strongest and smartest, except what I am doing.

I don't really know what this thread has to do with PKs, or where you get the idea that PKs are "mean"
Reds are the most honest players out there, as they are able to be attacked by anyone and can't have the FC1 town buff or use any virtue. It's the blues that grief by not flagging and staying in the guardzone until the situation suits them.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

You say that as if it is not inevitable. I really think it is shocking how much support people expect from a title that was in development when everyone was still playing Doom.

I don't think it is inevitable.
I think UO is a great game, with huge nostalgia, and way more game content than any game going today.
Most of todays games are so busy putting all their development into graphics, they forget to put in content, and people are bored in 5 minutes, I know I always am.
UO has content, it's just that a lot of it just needs tweaking, updating, sprucing up, I don't believe the stuff I'm asking for is hard, I'm not asking for another whole landmass, I just asking to put the stuff we have currently to better use, etc.

Umm...No. I've seen plenty of PKs ignorant of non-PK mechanics in my day. Mentalities like yours are one reason UO never advanced as far as it should have despite the incredible opportunity Trammel provided us. For some reason, policy continually proceeded as though those who nearly wrecked the game (note how many players left once non-PK competition was available) should be the driving force behind most of the decisions made for it.
I realize I can do nothing to fight the bizarre and pathetic cultural tendency to assume the meanest are the strongest and smartest, except what I am doing.

Mentalities like mine... I'll just let you look at that phrase you wrote, and think about it in more depth, I won't help you out here.

I've never been mean by the way, again you are making many assumptions based on zero knowledge.
My assumptions are the strongest and smartest are the strongest and smartest, and I compete to be there.
You have a lot of chips on your shoulder about life, and you are taking them out on PvPers/PKers.
Again, stop and think.

 

[Pawain]

Was looking on vendor search for another thread. Found this:


If Imbueing. With FC you can only get 3 stat increase properties and not at 15.

So this has 4 extra properties that you can not get from imbuing. And they are beyond imbue caps.

This would be great for a new tamer bard. Just dont train with it on and repair when needed. It would last until you get your skills up.

 

[cobb]

I would like to be able to reforge FC1 onto some armor.

 

[Anonymous UOPlayer]

I don't think it is inevitable.
I think UO is a great game, with huge nostalgia, and way more game content than any game going today.
Most of todays games are so busy putting all their development into graphics, they forget to put in content, and people are bored in 5 minutes, I know I always am.
UO has content, it's just that a lot of it just needs tweaking, updating, sprucing up, I don't believe the stuff I'm asking for is hard, I'm not asking for another whole landmass, I just asking to put the stuff we have currently to better use, etc.




Mentalities like mine... I'll just let you look at that phrase you wrote, and think about it in more depth, I won't help you out here.

I've never been mean by the way, again you are making many assumptions based on zero knowledge.
My assumptions are the strongest and smartest are the strongest and smartest, and I compete to be there.
You have a lot of chips on your shoulder about life, and you are taking them out on PvPers/PKers.
Again, stop and think.

lol. reading comp fail. i was clear that the "mentality" was the one that kowtows to PKs. if u re-read your post with an honest eye u can see that it comes down to: if the PKs say something about the game, it's accurate. this mentality has no support in reality & i won't pretend it does.

 

[Anonymous UOPlayer]

I don't really know what this thread has to do with PKs, or where you get the idea that PKs are "mean"
Reds are the most honest players out there, as they are able to be attacked by anyone and can't have the FC1 town buff or use any virtue. It's the blues that grief by not flagging and staying in the guardzone until the situation suits them.

only fools and/or people who didn't play b4 tram and/or have cookie's mentality will believe this...i will cite but a few examples 2 get people's memories started.

1 - the 'classic' server thread, wherein pks supported the bizarre idea with lies, easily dis-proveable ones, about how things were, are, and would be if such a shard were done.

2 - the age old 'can u help me get my stuff' scams.

3 - smack talking in global. if u listen 2 it you'll realize that, sooner or later, someone is lying or everyone is: because not every fight can have two outcomes at the same time and both parties will simultaneously accuse each other of cheating, denying that they cheat themselves, etc. contradictory narratives, and not like different spins but different underlying facts: so ultimately someone is lying or someone is stupid.

4 - the 'felucca's revenge" website and other similar activites. anyone remember this? was Pks bragging about infiltrating tram guilds 2 kill players or harm guilds. seen lots of that on lots of shards, even aside from this site.

5- reds house sitting at yew gate, which violates even the flawed non-linguistic definition of honesty u had in ur post.

so yeah....as 2 why it's part of this thread: because folks like u have made ur intent clear. not my fault u don't want 2 admit it when called out.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

lol. reading comp fail. i was clear that the "mentality" was the one that kowtows to PKs. if u re-read your post with an honest eye u can see that it comes down to: if the PKs say something about the game, it's accurate. this mentality has no support in reality & i won't pretend it does.

If that is what you think.

I am an anti pk, and probably one of the most successful anti pk's in the history of the game.
I play in a large well organised blue guild, and we take them all on, as we always have.
My game is about beating pk's in Felucca, to have a fun game.

But whilst I am an anti PK, I also know they are experienced players with different reasons for being pk's.
Whilst I partly role play my game, I know some of them do also - Mervyn!
I did not mean to specify pk's on their own, I meant PvPers in general, and of course I accept some are newbs, especially those who have to buy their way in.
(or cheat, or dismount )

To be clear about my views, to be a PvPer and beat players, takes far more than to just PvM and beat NPC's.
You need to be far more focussed on every little thing, and use it to the maximum, you are trying to beat an intelligent human being, who is doing everything in their power to outwit, outwork you.

So I do hold to the view, that PvPers notice item balance issues in far more detail then those who don't PvP.
But if you told me PvMers know far more about Deco than I do, I would completely agree, I know absolutely zero, I never buy an item for looks, I only collect practical items, my castle is decorated in a very minimalist fashion.

 

[Anonymous UOPlayer]

If that is what you think.

I am an anti pk, and probably one of the most successful anti pk's in the history of the game.
I play in a large well organised blue guild, and we take them all on, as we always have.
My game is about beating pk's in Felucca, to have a fun game.

But whilst I am an anti PK, I also know they are experienced players with different reasons for being pk's.
Whilst I partly role play my game, I know some of them do also - Mervyn!
I did not mean to specify pk's on their own, I meant PvPers in general, and of course I accept some are newbs, especially those who have to buy their way in.
(or cheat, or dismount )

To be clear about my views, to be a PvPer and beat players, takes far more than to just PvM and beat NPC's.
You need to be far more focussed on every little thing, and use it to the maximum, you are trying to beat an intelligent human being, who is doing everything in their power to outwit, outwork you.

So I do hold to the view, that PvPers notice item balance issues in far more detail then those who don't PvP.
But if you told me PvMers know far more about Deco than I do, I would completely agree, I know absolutely zero, I never buy an item for looks, I only collect practical items, my castle is decorated in a very minimalist fashion.

your post essentially validates my description of ur mentality, just uses more words and uses different terms -- i've been around 2 long not 2 use the label "PK" for those people. u still essentially think that what PKs say should go because u consider them better. the key phrase is: "So I do hold to the view, that PvPers notice item balance issues in far more detail then those who don't PvP." ummmm....no. especially when u consider the incentive to take something away from an enemy as being the primary motive, not an honest assessment. nothing about being PK grants u superior insight, intelligence, or knowledge.

also this statement: "to be a PvPer and beat players, takes far more than to just PvM and beat NPC's.
You need to be far more focussed on every little thing, and use it to the maximum, you are trying to beat an intelligent human being, who is doing everything in their power to outwit, outwork you."
lacks rational basis.

think about it. as a PvMer u either win or lose & the monster is an objective obstacle: There's a limited variance in that monster's strength. by contrast PKs don't have 2b good 2 win. they just have 2 be least worst in the fight. u could suk & still win if opponent is worse than u. or is distracted by smack talking.

also they have another recourse: message boards, global chat, etc., all with the goal of persuading people that the loss shouldnt count 4 whatever reason. 'cos opponent used a template they don't like ('X template us lame u suk"). used an item they didn't like (like this whole dumb thread!). used a spell they didn't like (how many times have we all heard "X spell spamming is lame!!!"). cheated in some way ("speed hakker!!"). or of course lately u can say someone won because they have an item they supposedly dupped. that seems big these days.

in other words if u lose a fight in pking u can re-match in other arenas & still somehow be counted as "winning" despite outcome. odd & sad but true. but the monster u beat doesn't have that option, all it has is the objective reality of a corpse on the ground.

so, no mr. "their voice should count more than others 'cos theyre better." 'fraid not.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

This thread wasn't really here for you to air your many grievances against PvPers, and attempt to knock the subject down purely for that reason.
A manner by the way, many of the posters on Stratics behave like, I do wonder what has happened to you lot to make you so sensitive and blinkered.

It was here to help promote Crafters ingame, a topic I was fully on board with.

Essentially nothing to do with PvPers.
But somehow you made it that way, and I of course defended PvPers, and gave you my honest opinion that we are better players - to which whilst you know sub-consciously we are, felt you had to release all your hurt and pain in life at the PvPers.

When you guys make your many threads about Goblin statues, I just smile, and don't get involved - I certainly don't go in there all negative and criticize and insult.
If you have nothing nice to say, don't say it.

When you guys make threads about boostingTamers in PvP, in the past I supported you - "what"? I hear you say, "PvPer wanting to improve Tamers in PvP, that cannot be?!"
I don't see that you can be supported anymore, because all posters here care about is purely your style of play, and knocking everyone else down.

I will probably be staying off these boards now, which is the same as all the rest of my guild (which is big and very active), and all the Feluccan players I know.
I've given it almost a year on here, it's a new year, I value myself and my time far more than trying to get through the blinkered attitudes on here, it does nothing beneficial for me - time for me to go back to just enjoying myself, and being positive about life - try it.
We just play actively in Fel, have fun, you won't have any input here, so you won't have a clue how to improve the game, as per normal.

Good luck to the guys who like to Craft ingame.

 

[Anonymous UOPlayer]

This thread wasn't really here for you to air your many grievances against PvPers, and attempt to knock the subject down purely for that reason.

I started posting here, actually, by pointing out that no matter what they did, someone would say something was out of balance. One publish supposedly tips the balance too far in favor of crafting, the next too far in favor and loot, rinse and repeat. That was the sum total of my argument.

Then, out of nowhere, one of you guys compared himself to Jesus and posted that it was time to take things away from other players, and at that point I realized what the real point of this thread was, and aye, I responded in kind to you all. You all started down a road and I followed. Now it seems you've gotten your feelings hurt by being called out. All I can say is that when the shoe's on the other foot you all don't seem to mind too much, and I doubt I could count the number of threads where you folks have said that people need to have thicker skin and deal with it. I play by the rules you all set, and have set for years on Stratics, and when it's played against you all, you all whine it's too rough. Funny that. I especially like the borderline personality disorder defense of "and now I'm picking up my ball and going home." Especially since you don't really mean it anyway.

As to the idea behind the thread: The way it started, as a crafting boost, all I had to do to dispense with the merits of the discussion was point out that no matter what they did someone would argue they'd pushed it too far the other way. The way it ended up, with those of your mentality and ilk trying to take things away from other players that game mechanics justly has made it problematic to take away through gameplay, there essentially was no merit to the discussion at all, and I pointed it out, and showed how. As it stands now there's many paths to awesome, and that's a good thing, not a bad thing; and with limits on how powerful we can get anyway "awesome" in effect has a cap. All told the best solution is to leave it as it is, and there's no compelling reason to even consider changes.

So, yeah. As I said many posts ago: next, please.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

I started posting here, actually, by pointing out that no matter what they did, someone would say something was out of balance. One publish supposedly tips the balance too far in favor of crafting, the next too far in favor and loot, rinse and repeat. That was the sum total of my argument. .

Crafting is important though to UO. It is way out of kilter, we never even said it should go anywhere near current looted stuff.

Then, out of nowhere, one of you guys compared himself to Jesus and posted that it was time to take things away from other players,.

Lol, ok that's funny.
But you'll notice I disagreed with his concept.
Edit - I'm also not one of those guys, I'm nothing to do with him, I'm the complete opposite, this is what you keep doing, stereotyping etc.

and at that point I realized what the real point of this thread was, and aye, I responded in kind to you all. You all started down a road and I followed. Now it seems you've gotten your feelings hurt by being called out. All I can say is that when the shoe's on the other foot you all don't seem to mind too much, and I doubt I could count the number of threads where you folks have said that people need to have thicker skin and deal with it. I play by the rules you all set, and have set for years on Stratics, and when it's played against you all, you all whine it's too rough. Funny that. I especially like the borderline personality disorder defense of "and now I'm picking up my ball and going home." Especially since you don't really mean it anyway.
,.

Wow, you really know how to misinterpret stuff don't you, like you have with PvPers, PKers, most of this thread etc.
You also think you're something don't you?
I am not being sensitive, I know when I'm arguing with such an idiot I cannot help, there is nothing I can do for you, or many of the posters here, I've tried.
You don't want to be helped, you can't even see it - you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot force it to drink. I accept that - and will walk out by the way, soon as you stop posting such ******** that I can.
I just need to walk out, close that door, leave you to it.
Nothing to do with sensitive.

As to the idea behind the thread: The way it started, as a crafting boost, all I had to do to dispense with the merits of the discussion was point out that no matter what they did someone would argue they'd pushed it too far the other way. The way it ended up, with those of your mentality and ilk trying to take things away from other players that game mechanics justly has made it problematic to take away through gameplay, there essentially was no merit to the discussion at all, and I pointed it out, and showed how. As it stands now there's many paths to awesome, and that's a good thing, not a bad thing; and with limits on how powerful we can get anyway "awesome" in effect has a cap. All told the best solution is to leave it as it is, and there's no compelling reason to even consider changes.
So, yeah. As I said many posts ago: next, please.

You did nothing, except block game improvement, and block an entire section of the playerbase from enjoying the game more.
Well done.
Keep it up.

I'm not interested anymore, I don't want to keep responding to your inane moronic posts, so STFU please.

 

[Eric Ravenwind]

OMG! Please keep this thread about the comparison of Artifacts and Crafted items. I don't want this thread to get derailed; the topic is important to me as a player. If you got beef with other people, or any stuff other than Artifacts vs. Crafted items, TAKE IT ELSEWHERE !!

 

[Anonymous UOPlayer]

That was, what, a couple of hours after you said you weren't going to post anymore? You're not adding anything of substance that I haven't already dispensed with, you're just going to the standard insult book now.

Crafting is important though to UO. It is way out of kilter, we never even said it should go anywhere near current looted stuff.



Lol, ok that's funny.
But you'll notice I disagreed with his concept.
Edit - I'm also not one of those guys, I'm nothing to do with him, I'm the complete opposite, this is what you keep doing, stereotyping etc.




Wow, you really know how to misinterpret stuff don't you, like you have with PvPers, PKers, most of this thread etc.
You also think you're something don't you?
I am not being sensitive, I know when I'm arguing with such an idiot I cannot help, there is nothing I can do for you, or many of the posters here, I've tried.
You don't want to be helped, you can't even see it - you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot force it to drink. I accept that - and will walk out by the way, soon as you stop posting such ******** that I can.
I just need to walk out, close that door, leave you to it.
Nothing to do with sensitive.




You did nothing, except block game improvement, and block an entire section of the playerbase from enjoying the game more.
Well done.
Keep it up.

I'm not interested anymore, I don't want to keep responding to your inane moronic posts, so STFU please.

 

[Anonymous UOPlayer]

OMG! Please keep this thread about the comparison of Artifacts and Crafted items. I don't want this thread to get derailed; the topic is important to me as a player. If you got beef with other people, or any stuff other than Artifacts vs. Crafted items, TAKE IT ELSEWHERE !!

I'm not going to not play by the rules I'm given. Other posters turned this into something else and I'm done not responding in-kind to such folks. *shrugs*

 

[Pawain]

This is about the difference between crafted items and artifacts. You should start a new thread addressing your particular issue.

You mean an item like this? Overpriced buy lots of stats.