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Time to talk about shatter pots

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TB Cookie [W]

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Thinking people are unkillable with potions is why you shouldn't chime in. Everyone I kill 1v1 has all potions and same with group fights. Not sure who you are wearing down.
Most people I kill, have 100+ empty potion bottles...
(Whereas I've barely needed to use 5).
Gets a bit boring.

And to confirm, if I am using potions, I am unkillable.
(Long as I'm not dismount ganked by 5, and screw it up).
 
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drcossack

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It's quite clear you are biased because you didn't/don't know how to anticipate a nova.
You literally CANNOT anticipate something that's INSTANT. What planet are you living on? If you managed to avoid a (pre-delay) nova at all, it's because the person using it screwed up big time and tossed it at the wrong time.
 

PaithanTheElf

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If it’s “AIDS” then why do I have 120 healing to use bandages but zero skill to use pots made by an alchemist

I should be able to use lethal poisoning as well with zero skill
You can use aids without healing. Thanks.
 

PaithanTheElf

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You literally CANNOT anticipate something that's INSTANT. What planet are you living on? If you managed to avoid a (pre-delay) nova at all, it's because the person using it screwed up big time and tossed it at the wrong time.
If someone uses a nova when you won't die.. it is a waste of a nova and who cares? You should be smart enough to know when you are low and people would go for a nova and then to not stand next to them. If that has to be explained to you- then i see where the issue is here.

If you are low you can just run away. It was one of the most simple concepts that for some reasons you covenant and warshak couldnt grasp.
 

drcossack

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If you are low you can just run away. It was one of the most simple concepts that for some reasons you covenant and warshak couldnt grasp.
ok, you're not worth talking to on this, since you're biased as hell. We're done here.
 

PaithanTheElf

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Most people I kill, have 100+ empty potion bottles...
(Whereas I've barely needed to use 5).
Gets a bit boring.

And to confirm, if I am using potions, I am unkillable.
(Long as I'm not dismount ganked by 5, and screw it up).
Want to prove that or is that just rhetoric talk? And if you are saying you are not killable because you just run away- then you can do that on any temp. Let's prove to the crowd your point? *insert multiple excuses from cookie*
 

TB Cookie [W]

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I'm sure Bill Gates really cares about the input of his latest operating system from a person who cannot turn on a computer, that's basically what's going on here in relation to your input in PVP.

Again, shatter pots are nothing but a trolling mechanism and I second what Paith said, every person I kill has a wealth of pots on them when they die and a lot of time I'm shattered to hell and back so I have maybe 3 of each by the time I kill these so called pvpers, that is IF they choose to actually engage in pvp which 90% of the time they DO NOT. Why? Bc again SHATTER POTS are ONLY used for trolling better players.
I accept for a Yew Gate solo player, they are a trolling mechanism.
For large scale team fights, they are a useful part of the fight.

Maybe Bill Gates should care, they are his future customers.
If they cannot use his product, it will fail.

I'd welcome you to test this theory.
Do you have a preference of where you'd like to meet up for me to prove just how killable you are?
I'm just around when I'm around, not around so much atm tbh.
Had fun fighting DiE last night, not logged in today.
I'm not going out of my way to fight you - you wouldn't kill me, it would be an exercise in pointlessness, which bores me.
 

TB Cookie [W]

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Want to prove that or is that just rhetoric talk? And if you are saying you are not killable because you just run away- then you can do that on any temp. Let's prove to the crowd your point? *insert multiple excuses from cookie*
No need to prove anything to you.

Yes I'm saying part of the reason I'd be unkillable, is I would run, and use Potions, the very point of this discussion.
Sadly, that is the style of UO PvP right now.
I don't agree with it, but I still do it well enough.
 

805connection

Sage
Stratics Veteran
I Understand all your points.Its annoying as hell, I get it but I carry 22 of each potion, 22 conflags and 10 novas. one shot 30% of that is gone, But honestly you guys have played this game for over a decade, and out all the stuff to complain about you pick shatter potions? . You let the dude hit u a times go back and stock up and stop crying its op.. When someone is using Shatter potions at a spawn its a very solid strategy especially if they have a dper. If someone is playing a parry mage/ or a bandage mage and you know agility pots help them hit a bandage timer or a parry chance, . then Shatter potion and purge that crap off.

It also helps the trammies who spend hours making potions, and provides them with some $$$
 

PaithanTheElf

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I didn’t realize at zero healing and anatomy skill I could use bandages to cure poison

Thanks for the update
No one said they can. Look at what you said, bud. You said you can't use bandaids without healing. Sure you can. They are less effective.

Learn to play. Your welcome for the update.
 

PaithanTheElf

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No need to prove anything to you.

Yes I'm saying part of the reason I'd be unkillable, is I would run, and use Potions, the very point of this discussion.
Sadly, that is the style of UO PvP right now.
I don't agree with it, but I still do it well enough.
I can just run away on any character and not die. So you being "unkillable" with pots equates to you will run away from pvp. Not the same thing whatsoever. That would be like me saying I am unkillable on a stealther because I will hide and you will never find me. lol.

But, yeah, you are killable.

It's so strange when people throw random stuff at the wall to see what sticks and then don't want to back it up based on facts or proof.
 

Mervyn

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There is one issue with potions in UO:
not all potions require a free hand, mistake or feature?
 

PaithanTheElf

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I Understand all your points.Its annoying as hell, I get it but I carry 22 of each potion, 22 conflags and 10 novas. one shot 30% of that is gone, But honestly you guys have played this game for over a decade, and out all the stuff to complain about you pick shatter potions? . You let the dude hit u a times go back and stock up and stop crying its op.. When someone is using Shatter potions at a spawn its a very solid strategy especially if they have a dper. If someone is playing a parry mage/ or a bandage mage and you know agility pots help them hit a bandage timer or a parry chance, . then Shatter potion and purge that crap off.

It also helps the trammies who spend hours making potions, and provides them with some $$$
If something is stupid, people shouldn't complain because there are other stupid things that need to be fixed in the game also? Great logic chap.
 

skett

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I’ll try to work on learning how to deal with my superiority complex and playing UO in others beliefs as to how UO should be played
 

TB Cookie [W]

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I can just run away on any character and not die. So you being "unkillable" with pots equates to you will run away from pvp. Not the same thing whatsoever. That would be like me saying I am unkillable on a stealther because I will hide and you will never find me. lol.

But, yeah, you are killable.

It's so strange when people throw random stuff at the wall to see what sticks and then don't want to back it up based on facts or proof.
I'm sorry, I'm out of this discussion, I feel like I'm talking to a moron.
 

skett

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There is one issue with potions in UO:
not all potions require a free hand, mistake or feature?
It should be like stealing both hands free to use beings how you need zero skill to use them

Just my ignorant opinion and my lack of knowing how to play this game
 

Restroom Cowboy

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He thinks 4 stones per is needed.
It would seem more feasible to change the weight of each shatter pot to 50 stones and make the user of said shatter pots flag criminal to everyone. The player after all is committing a criminal offense with no penalty aside from flagging one person who is more than likely busy being engaged by a multitude of other players.
 

805connection

Sage
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If something is stupid, people shouldn't complain because there are other stupid things that need to be fixed in the game also? Great logic chap.
the shatter potions are there for a reason and the devs 100% know how troll they are in pvp, if you gotta go restock restock man. that is a sound strat to taking someone out of the fight or crippling them when used correctly, I would not be apposed to moving the timer to 2 or 3 min, but a lot of newer mages are using crutches like 4 second heals, 20 of each potion fire pies, 75 fire resist, until they get more familiar with the casting system, and those templates are difficult to kill unless they are ran out of supplies.
 

leet

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I Understand all your points.Its annoying as hell, I get it but I carry 22 of each potion, 22 conflags and 10 novas. one shot 30% of that is gone, But honestly you guys have played this game for over a decade, and out all the stuff to complain about you pick shatter potions? . You let the dude hit u a times go back and stock up and stop crying its op.. When someone is using Shatter potions at a spawn its a very solid strategy especially if they have a dper. If someone is playing a parry mage/ or a bandage mage and you know agility pots help them hit a bandage timer or a parry chance, . then Shatter potion and purge that crap off.

It also helps the trammies who spend hours making potions, and provides them with some $$$
"strategy" :facepalm:

Also, you cant make shatter potions, nice try with the trammy approach.
 

805connection

Sage
Stratics Veteran
"strategy" :facepalm:

Also, you cant make shatter potions, nice try with the trammy approach.
Correct, very good you cant make shatter potions. But the potions they destroy you can make, the Novas you can farm, the conflags you can craft. someone needs to make potions to stock yew vendors. and those vendors move faster with shatter potions.
 

Cetric

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Honestly, the thrower has like a 2 minute timer? At the very minimum the receiver should also be immune to a shatter pot for several minutes.
 

PaithanTheElf

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the shatter potions are there for a reason and the devs 100% know how troll they are in pvp, if you gotta go restock restock man. that is a sound strat to taking someone out of the fight or crippling them when used correctly, I would not be apposed to moving the timer to 2 or 3 min, but a lot of newer mages are using crutches like 4 second heals, 20 of each potion fire pies, 75 fire resist, until they get more familiar with the casting system, and those templates are difficult to kill unless they are ran out of supplies.
I'm not sure what "apposed" means. But, in the long run if someone is using supplies and runs out.. they will just restock (as you noted). So, all it effectively does is STOP the pvp and drag it out. It has the exact opposite effect of what you think they are accomplishing. Think before posting.
 

PaithanTheElf

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Honestly, the thrower has like a 2 minute timer? At the very minimum the receiver should also be immune to a shatter pot for several minutes.
Yes. A 2-5 minute timer would make the griefing better and you couldn't just take 4 people and shatter pot a person's whole inventory in one second. Good idea.
 

Tjalle

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There is no skill involved in that, and if they get a wonderful RNG they could of already took all of your cure pots, or heal pots or blah blah
causing you to have to:

1. try to find a bank (in the middle of all the action your just going to leave your guiild?) what if your spawning?
2. get into a house? (yeah gotta wait 2 mins for that) what if your spawning?
3. Loot a body? sure but now u have to kill someone, try to loot them in the midst of 10 people on your screen trying to rez them / pk you, oh but what if we already shatter potted that person 3 times oh wait they don't have any potions
4. Continue to PvP until you either win or lose.

But of course since prodo PvP is so infested with fragile egos these days, no pots = no PvP.
God forbid someone would die. Oh, the shame. :rolleyes2:
 

805connection

Sage
Stratics Veteran
I'm not sure what "apposed" means. But, in the long run if someone is using supplies and runs out.. they will just restock (as you noted). So, all it effectively does is STOP the pvp and drag it out. It has the exact opposite effect of what you think they are accomplishing. Think before posting.
it drags out? how the person leaves fight is over they are out of supplies, or the person stays and fights without supplies and dies fight is over. either way it moves the process a long, why is that soo hard to understand? If you are a dper its a bonus for your temp. What they need to do is make it so bandages/bolas and anything else you carry as a resource.
 

PaithanTheElf

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4. Continue to PvP until you either win or lose.

But of course since prodo PvP is so infested with fragile egos these days, no pots = no PvP.
God forbid someone would die. Oh, the shame. :rolleyes2:
That doesn't happen and nor should it. If that happened then EVERYONE would use shatters and DPers and pretty much just shatter someone down until they have no pots. And dying due to not having stock is just plain old dumb.

Everyone that actually pvps... dies with pots. So you lost your point on that one.
 

Tjalle

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That doesn't happen and nor should it. If that happened then EVERYONE would use shatters and DPers and pretty much just shatter someone down until they have no pots. And dying due to not having stock is just plain old dumb.

Everyone that actually pvps... dies with pots. So you lost your point on that one.
Thanks for agreeing with my post.
 

PaithanTheElf

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it drags out? how the person leaves fight is over they are out of supplies, or the person stays and fights without supplies and dies fight is over. either way it moves the process a long, why is that soo hard to understand? If you are a dper its a bonus for your temp. What they need to do is make it so bandages/bolas and anything else you carry as a resource.
Like when you just ran away from me because someone else shatter potted you all it did was make you leave the fight restock and come back. Literally proved my point in game just now.

Going to restock isn't moving any process along.. it stops the process. You are not very bright.

The issue is in your head you "win" a fight if someone leaves to restock or repair weps ... when no one else looks at it that way. I (and majority of other pvpers) would not even enjoy a kill if it was due to a resource running out. I get that lesser pvpers like you would like to try to take advantage of a player being low on resources to get a kill. I personally like killing at them at heir best.

Either way, the fix should be flat amount or a timer to not be shattered again. The fact that multiple people can target one person and break his whole stock instantly is not well thought out at all.
 

805connection

Sage
Stratics Veteran
4. Continue to PvP until you either win or lose.

But of course since prodo PvP is so infested with fragile egos these days, no pots = no PvP.
God forbid someone would die. Oh, the shame. :rolleyes2:
That doesn't happen and nor should it. If that happened then EVERYONE would use shatters and DPers and pretty much just shatter someone down until they have no pots. And dying due to not having stock is just plain old dumb.

Everyone that actually pvps... dies with pots. So you lost your point on that one.
The only place that people use a ton of resources is at yew gate. At a champ spawn you do use potions but your heal pot is not on constant CD like it is in yew. So again lets not changes based on yew gate trash pvp.
 

CovenantX

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Oh wow. I didn't expect that !!!!
People knew when you were getting near nova HP to run away and guess what?
The person on offense had 2 options:
1. waste the nova
2. wait til a better time to use it.
#1. User error.
#2. When you're within range of a valid target.

if you believe you could avoid super novas.
why would you advocate for specials to not proc splintering weapon? Melee (splintering weapons) have a shorter range than novas.

If they consider doing anything to splintering weapon, they should remove the proc chance completely if you have these skills => 60.0: (sort of how 70+ magery drops chivalry to 2/6 casting speed)

Magery.
Eval-int.
Poisoning.
Mysticism.
Focus.
Necromancy.
Spiritspeak.
Taming.
Animal Lore.
Archery.
Throwing.
Edit: & Chivalry (Holyfist)

Then they could allow splintering to proc with any special in UO, and it wouldn't be OP at all.
as a matter of fact, what was the reason for the "Splintering Weapon" property to spawn on melee-weapons only? I bet it was to help Melee Dexers... yea, it'll do that.
 
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PaithanTheElf

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The only place that people use a ton of resources is at yew gate. At a champ spawn you do use potions but your heal pot is not on constant CD like it is in yew. So again lets not changes based on yew gate trash pvp.
Oh wow. I didn't expect that !!!!


#1. User error.
#2. When you're within range of a valid target.

if you believe you could avoid super novas.
why would you advocate for specials to not proc splintering weapon? Melee (splintering weapons) have a shorter range than novas.

If they consider doing anything to splintering weapon, they should remove the proc chance completely if you have these skills => 60.0: (sort of how 70+ magery drops chivalry to 2/6 casting speed)

Magery.
Eval-int.
Poisoning.
Mysticism.
Focus.
Necromancy.
Spiritspeak.
Taming.
Animal Lore.
Archery.
Throwing.
Edit: & Chivalry (Holyfist)

Then they could allow splintering to proc with any special in UO, and it wouldn't be OP at all.
as a matter of fact, what was the reason for the "Splintering Weapon" property to spawn on melee-weapons only? I bet it was to help Melee Dexers... yea, it'll do that.
A resounding no to that whole post.

Another idea could be to make shatter pots only usable from within 2 tiles and if you are invis it shows you for 2 seconds before it chucks it.
 

TheDrAJ

Babbling Loonie
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Quick Question - what is the range of a shatter potion?
 

Cetric

Grand Poobah
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Add cool down and immunity. Also make them totally less effective, not effected by EP but yes effected by alchemy?
 

CovenantX

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Add cool down and immunity. Also make them totally less effective, not effected by EP but yes effected by alchemy?
They have a 1 minute cooldown.

I do agree with an immunity to shatters, as it's the only suggestion so far that would reduce (Trolling)... But, the immunity timer can't be longer than the cool-down timer unless the shatter breaks even more potions. I think the immunity should be no longer than 50% of the cool-down... 30s, as I said earlier in the thread.

You scale one thing up, something else needs to adjusted accordingly.
Speaking of which, I didn't see many people complaining about Shatter Potions before publish 96... Wonder why? - Poisoning has become incredibly common.... again.
 

Cetric

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They have a 1 minute cooldown.

I do agree with an immunity to shatters, as it's the only suggestion so far that would reduce (Trolling)... But, the immunity timer can't be longer than the cool-down timer unless the shatter breaks even more potions. I think the immunity should be no longer than 50% of the cool-down... 30s, as I said earlier in the thread.

You scale one thing up, something else needs to adjusted accordingly.
Speaking of which, I didn't see many people complaining about Shatter Potions before publish 96... Wonder why? - Poisoning has become incredibly common.... again.

I think it's because shatter pots have become that much more available as well
 

CovenantX

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I agree, but shatter pots are the easiest way to kill people (1 v 1) -taking away the easiest/inconsequential method of survival (potions) outside of running.
 

Aeyko

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I agree, but shatter pots are the easiest way to kill people (1 v 1) -taking away the easiest/inconsequential method of survival (potions) outside of running.
I'm curious, have you been killed with shatter pots or due to shatter pots? When I am online, I have not. I only get shattered and watch people run away and talk crap in general chat about it. When I was active, I couldn't tell you the last time I saw you pvping or relevant in pvp so this is a curious question. In the last year, the shatter pot epidemic has become worse and worse due to decreasing level of skilled players and the community as a whole not wanting to get better but to only nerf or troll the advanced players.
 

Great DC

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This thread is hilarious. I keep seeing people say skilled players and needing pots as if that is what makes you good. What did people do during 3-4 hour long fights deep in a dungeon over a harrower for years?? "If you rely on potions to survive, then you are not a skilled pvper". This whining over a long cooldown shatter potion is ridiculously funny. How about instead you learn to time your bandages and your mini heals and greater heals? What a concept that is using the skills on your template. End of todays lesson, make sure you do your homework before next class.
 

CovenantX

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When I am online, I have not. I only get shattered and watch people run away and talk crap in general chat about it.
Well, if they're talking crap in gen chat after they shatter 30% of your potions, perhaps because of this:

15 potions is a joke. You can get shattered by 5 different ppl over 10 seconds and be down to 15 pots in a a fight

So they break down to what, 1 str, 3 Dex, 1 cure, 2 heals, 3 conflag, 3 refresh and 2 Nova's. Ur done in that fight. Go restock.
when it happens over and over in 1v1.. guess what happens.. the person who got shattered will just leave and restock. So, it just ends up hindering pvp. You are probably one of the people that would call someone restocking a win though.
I can definitely see why people talk trash if you're only going to pvp when you have a full pack of potions... ? yea, that's it.

When I was active, I couldn't tell you the last time I saw you pvping or relevant in pvp so this is a curious question. In the last year, the shatter pot epidemic has become worse and worse due to decreasing level of skilled players and the community as a whole not wanting to get better but to only nerf or troll the advanced players.
I didn't know you weren't active, but then again I haven't pvped on Atlantic very much since the pet revamp came out... going there and seeing everyone band together each person with a pet... yea, being outnumbered as always is detracting enough, but by tamers? It's not like we didn't see it coming though...

I agree with the decrease in level of "skilled players", except I'm 100% sure shattered potions aren't to blame for it though.

IMO it's the following:

#1) The attitude that no one can pvp without every crutch in UO (see the quotes above). this includes third-party programs as well btw, I'm not accusing anyone, simply acknowledging it (it's a crutch)
#2) Many people refuse to pvp unless they outnumber others. (probably because it's been increasingly difficult to kill people as item/property accessibility is greater).
#3) The randomness of things like Casting Focus & Poison Immunity interfering with What made pvp good in the first place. (Yea, I've been trying to get this sh*t removed since it came out).
 

Great DC

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I'm not sure what "apposed" means. But, in the long run if someone is using supplies and runs out.. they will just restock (as you noted). So, all it effectively does is STOP the pvp and drag it out. It has the exact opposite effect of what you think they are accomplishing. Think before posting.
Wait so if you give up fighting someone cause you have no pots, that is somehow the other persons fault. This is where the "skilled" part of the fight would start but instead you run away to restock. Sounds to me like you lack the talent to skillfully pvp.

I also seem to remember when novas were being nerfed that you ego challenged said you needed them in order to kill anyone. Now why is it the person would live much longer then normal in a fight? (Hint: potions). So people are using something to lower your pvp longevity and its an issue? Such backward hypocrite thinking IMO.
 

Aeyko

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Well, if they're talking crap in gen chat after they shatter 30% of your potions, perhaps because of this:





I can definitely see why people talk trash if you're only going to pvp when you have a full pack of potions... ? yea, that's it.



I didn't know you weren't active, but then again I haven't pvped on Atlantic very much since the pet revamp came out... going there and seeing everyone band together each person with a pet... yea, being outnumbered as always is detracting enough, but by tamers? It's not like we didn't see it coming though...

I agree with the decrease in level of "skilled players", except I'm 100% sure shattered potions aren't to blame for it though.

IMO it's the following:

#1) The attitude that no one can pvp without every crutch in UO (see the quotes above). this includes third-party programs as well btw, I'm not accusing anyone, simply acknowledging it (it's a crutch)
#2) Many people refuse to pvp unless they outnumber others. (probably because it's been increasingly difficult to kill people as item/property accessibility is greater).
#3) The randomness of things like Casting Focus & Poison Immunity interfering with What made pvp good in the first place. (Yea, I've been trying to get this sh*t removed since it came out).
I hate that there as many crutches in the game as there are but I never had a problem beating any player 1v1 with or without pots and those crutches. The pets, even with a revamp, are still dumb. And the trolling is due to lack of discipline it would take to actually improve ones gameplay. Even shattered, I still kill 100% of the players left in this game and I back that up every time I log in. The game has changed and if they aren't going to remove some of the crutches, then they should atleast remove or hinder the trolling mechanics of the game in the form of shatter pots.
 
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