Time to talk about shatter pots

[CovenantX]

I hate that there as many crutches in the game as there are but I never had a problem beating any player 1v1 with or without pots and those crutches. The pets, even with a revamp, are still dumb. And the trolling is due to lack of discipline it would take to actually improve ones gameplay. Even shattered, I still kill 100% of the players left in this game and I back that up every time I log in. The game has changed and if they aren't going to remove some of the crutches, then they should atleast remove or hinder the trolling mechanics of the game in the form of shatter pots.

If you disliked the crutches like your first sentence says, you'd be arguing against them, and not singling out shatter potions.... shatter potions literally cause the least of the problems with everything that exists in pvp today.

I normally start with 11 of each potion on my Dexers (1) & Mages with Alchemy (1). I don't complain about shatters, even though they'd make me run low on potions much sooner than most of you guys. losing 40 potions w/a single shatter It's ridiculous people even carry that many to begin with... but you know the main reason I ever get killed? being outnumbered almost every single time... It's a minor issue playing in a 3 person guild though, (we had 9 people before the rest of my guildies quit UO ), you know. you fought against us on LS.


UO would be much more fun and "Player" skill-based with less crutches and RNG involved. -bring it back.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

I hate that there as many crutches... The game has changed and if they aren't going to remove some of the crutches, then they should atleast remove or hinder the trolling mechanics of the game in the form of shatter pots.

Aeyko, I may have said this before, you remind me of me 15 years ago.
The problem with this sentence to many of us, is you are the guy using all the crutches - I'd remove the entire lot.
You now sound like the older guy struggling to adapt and keep up with the game, so you're trying to hardfix it to exactly that moment when you were good.
You were anti tamers for their moment in pvp, you are now anti shatter potions, why? Because it doesn't fit your idea of PvP, or suit your playstyle.
We all do it to be fair.
You've got to get over the fact they are all rubbish and quality is going down, and you are so elite. Maybe they are just different.
This is how I see you. I'm elite, and you are the trash destroying this game with your stupid gameplay and ideas.
All that is happening, is the 3rd generation is coming along, and we both dislike it. Me less than you, because I've hated so much for so long anyway, it makes no difference to me anymore.

If you disliked the crutches like your first sentence says, you'd be arguing against them, and not singling out shatter potions.... shatter potions literally cause the least of the problems with everything that exists in pvp today...
UO would be much more fun and "Player" skill-based with less crutches and RNG involved. -bring it back.

I've agreed with all your posts in this topic.
I'm personally not bothered either way about Shatter Potions, they do have a use in largescale PvP, which I think should be the benchmark for PvP, not solo Yew gate PvP.
If you fight around Yew Gate, you are part of that trolling community anyway, so can hardly complain you get trolled.
But yes, if they moderated them, no skin off my nose.

Casting Focus - I get it, no point even, you know what, it confuses me when it even works, because I've already assumed my spell has failed, cancelled it and moved on, the message itself comes way too late to actually use it. So yes, A. it's adding RNG into mageplay, and B. I don't even benefit from it because it's too slow and I've moved on.

This is why I really hate the fact they've added weapons and stuff into the mage armoury - more RNG.

 

[CovenantX]

Potions without Alchemy and EP do very little to heal hence why using 100 skill points ENHANCES the abilities. Same with poisoning. It has been this way since the start. I have alchemy on most all of my pvp characters bc I know and understand the benefits of this in PVP such as conflag, added HP bonus to str pots etc.

That makes sense why you'd want shatter potions nerfed, it's a weakness to alchemy. (the only weakness alchemy has), Hell, Stealing skill can't even steal enough pots to put a dent in how many you could carry...

I already knew most all of your characters has alchemy... It's nice to have someone on the other side say it though.
That makes things easier for everyone to find the correct solution.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

That makes sense why you'd want shatter potions nerfed, it's a weakness to alchemy. (the only weakness alchemy has), Hell, Stealing skill can't even steal enough pots to put a dent in how many you could carry...

I already knew most all of your characters has alchemy... It's nice to have someone on the other side say it though.
That makes things easier for everyone to find the correct solution.

It looks like everyone else has worked it out also.
In which case, this could all be put down to his opposition adapting, and the game advancing.
Should maybe be giving his opposition more credit, for developing and adapting.

Maybe cap potions at 20 each, as half of this problem is over reliance on potions, leading to others having to take effective counter measures.

Maybe a timer on Shatter Potions, and a time immunity on a single target.

Whatever.

 

[Aeyko]

Aeyko, I may have said this before, you remind me of me 15 years ago.
The problem with this sentence to many of us, is you are the guy using all the crutches - I'd remove the entire lot.
You now sound like the older guy struggling to adapt and keep up with the game, so you're trying to hardfix it to exactly that moment when you were good.
You were anti tamers for their moment in pvp, you are now anti shatter potions, why? Because it doesn't fit your idea of PvP, or suit your playstyle.
We all do it to be fair.
You've got to get over the fact they are all rubbish and quality is going down, and you are so elite. Maybe they are just different.
This is how I see you. I'm elite, and you are the trash destroying this game with your stupid gameplay and ideas.
All that is happening, is the 3rd generation is coming along, and we both dislike it. Me less than you, because I've hated so much for so long anyway, it makes no difference to me anymore.




I've agreed with all your posts in this topic.
I'm personally not bothered either way about Shatter Potions, they do have a use in largescale PvP, which I think should be the benchmark for PvP, not solo Yew gate PvP.
If you fight around Yew Gate, you are part of that trolling community anyway, so can hardly complain you get trolled.
But yes, if they moderated them, no skin off my nose.

Casting Focus - I get it, no point even, you know what, it confuses me when it even works, because I've already assumed my spell has failed, cancelled it and moved on, the message itself comes way too late to actually use it. So yes, A. it's adding RNG into mageplay, and B. I don't even benefit from it because it's too slow and I've moved on.

This is why I really hate the fact they've added weapons and stuff into the mage armoury - more RNG.

Help me understand how I'm struggling to adapt when I beat 100% of the playerbase left in this game? The issue I have with shatter pots is the trolling and running away that happens every single time I log in the game. They see my name, they know they have zero chance of beating me, they shatter and run away. It's comical for someone to even attempt to tell me that I struggle to adapt when I literally beat the best of the best this game has to offer and continue to challenge players to fights while no one will accept any fight vs me. I guess it's because "I'm the old guy that's struggling to adapt".... Riiiiiight buddy.

 

[Aeyko]

That makes sense why you'd want shatter potions nerfed, it's a weakness to alchemy. (the only weakness alchemy has), Hell, Stealing skill can't even steal enough pots to put a dent in how many you could carry...

I already knew most all of your characters has alchemy... It's nice to have someone on the other side say it though.
That makes things easier for everyone to find the correct solution.

Alchemy is a support skill the same as healing or spellweaving. Very little offense comes from alchemy so why would it need a weakness while someone can carry 500 bandages on them with no issues? You're grasping here my man. The only people that wanted or wanted alchemy nerfed was the people that ran when low and got popped with a 20 dmg supernova... Which even with the delay, I still finish off the runners with that little 20 dmg burst that has the delay of a lightning (Which is 20 to 24 hp if sashed with max sdi)

 

[cazador]

This thread is hilarious. I keep seeing people say skilled players and needing pots as if that is what makes you good. What did people do during 3-4 hour long fights deep in a dungeon over a harrower for years?? "If you rely on potions to survive, then you are not a skilled pvper". This whining over a long cooldown shatter potion is ridiculously funny. How about instead you learn to time your bandages and your mini heals and greater heals? What a concept that is using the skills on your template. End of todays lesson, make sure you do your homework before next class.

Back then Harry’s just like faction wars, people would set up way ahead. Pack horses with supplies, bag balls to help defend. It was also a much different game, with a higher skill curve and WAY more players. None of those tactics exist anymore..why? Because there’s no need.. like @Aeyko has stated. The skill level has dropped, but at the same time so has the need for strategy. We now have 100 lrc 20 hpr 25hpi 30mr suit where there’s no risk. You die, getting back into the fight is relatively easy(just res). Therefore dying and strategy no longer matter almost at all in 2017 UO.


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[PaithanTheElf]

Wait so if you give up fighting someone cause you have no pots, that is somehow the other persons fault. This is where the "skilled" part of the fight would start but instead you run away to restock. Sounds to me like you lack the talent to skillfully pvp.

I also seem to remember when novas were being nerfed that you ego challenged said you needed them in order to kill anyone. Now why is it the person would live much longer then normal in a fight? (Hint: potions). So people are using something to lower your pvp longevity and its an issue? Such backward hypocrite thinking IMO.

Skilled fights are when both people are at max potential and a win occurs (i.e. full use of everything available to them). I 100% want everyone I fight to have full backpacks and not make that an excuse as to why they died.

I think the line you are thinking of was along the lines of it is pretty much impossible to kill a decent mage with pots and apples with magery only and I stand by that.

The 3 or 4 of you guys that always talk the way you do is some desperate cling to how UO was 10+ years ago. I used to advocate the same way. But the game has changed drastically. Sorry not sorry.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

the shatter potions are there for a reason and the devs 100% know how troll they are in pvp, if you gotta go restock restock man. that is a sound strat to taking someone out of the fight or crippling them when used correctly, I would not be apposed to moving the timer to 2 or 3 min, but a lot of newer mages are using crutches like 4 second heals, 20 of each potion fire pies, 75 fire resist, until they get more familiar with the casting system, and those templates are difficult to kill unless they are ran out of supplies.

Ya can you believe that some people use the crutch of masteries that should not be available to them? At least the people that use what is available to everyone are playing the game as intended. It is sad that some people are so bad they will use known bugs to attempt to be competitive. Am i right?

 

[CovenantX]

Ya can you believe that some people use the crutch of masteries that should not be available to them? At least the people that use what is available to everyone are playing the game as intended. It is sad that some people are so bad they will use known bugs to attempt to be competitive. Am i right?

You mean like the curse bug? you're right, it was sad.

 

[Fridgster]

.... shattered dreams?

 

[PaithanTheElf]

You mean like the curse bug? you're right, it was sad.

Agreed. They took way too long to fix that.

 

[drcossack]

The 3 or 4 of you guys that always talk the way you do is some desperate cling to how UO was 10+ years ago. I used to advocate the same way. But the game has changed drastically. Sorry not sorry.

You mean we want more player skill than reliance on crutches? You're right, that's a horrible idea.

Help me understand how I'm struggling to adapt when I beat 100% of the playerbase left in this game?

Didn't you lose a duel to a guy who never plays a mage?

 

[CovenantX]

Help me understand how I'm struggling to adapt when I beat 100% of the playerbase left in this game?

When crutches make or break the pvp more and more (as they have over the years), people lose interest because it's as if their "Skill" makes less a difference.
Most other MMOs have consumables properly balanced, at least far better than UO does. -Granted UO is faster pace than most other MMOs I've played, but that's no excuse.

Alchemy is a support skill the same as healing or spellweaving. Very little offense comes from alchemy so why would it need a weakness while someone can carry 500 bandages on them with no issues? You're grasping here my man.

Your definition of "grasping" must be different than mine..

Comparing Bandages + Healing & Anatomy to Potions & Alchemy+EP? That's grasping... you get much more with alchemy + EP than you do with healing & anatomy... offensively & defensively.

How about you replace your Potions with Bandages and go pvp for a while, you should notice a difference in your performance very quickly.

I don't want potions to be useless, I want them to be used when they are needed, instead of there never being a reason not to use them.

Which even with the delay, I still finish off the runners with that little 20 dmg burst that has the delay of a lightning (Which is 20 to 24 hp if sashed with max sdi)

are Supernovas hard to use or something? They've actually be one of the easiest things to use since they came out.

Finish runners off with an Explosion Potion, that might actually be impressive..because it would take some skills in timing & awareness.

Edit: I thought you avoid Supernovas by running.. How do you finish off the "runners" with them?. just another flaw in the argument I guess, it's not such a rare occurrence.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

You mean we want more player skill than reliance on crutches? You're right, that's a horrible idea.



Didn't you lose a duel to a guy who never plays a mage?

You call everything in game a crutch if you don't know how to use items properly. lol

 

[drcossack]

You call everything in game a crutch if you don't know how to use items properly. lol

when do I do that? Concrete examples with screenshots.

 

[Merlin]

Folks -

I performed some thread clean up regarding trolling, taking personal swipes at one another, and attempts to derail the topic into other areas. Due to the heated nature of this PVP-related topic, please do not attempt to bring entirely different topics into this thread. If you want to discuss other areas of PVP, create another thread.

This is also second time I'm making a public warning to AVOID ALL PERSONAL COMMENTS. That includes personal swipes and condescending unto others that they're 'not worthy' to post here or aren't good enough PVPers, or what have you. The next time I have to intervene on this thread, it will be to lock it.

Thank you to the majority of those here who have discussed the topic in a mature manner.

 

[Aeyko]

When crutches make or break the pvp more and more (as they have over the years), people lose interest because it's as if their "Skill" makes less a difference.
Most other MMOs have consumables properly balanced, at least far better than UO does. -Granted UO is faster pace than most other MMOs I've played, but that's no excuse.



Your definition of "grasping" must be different than mine..

Comparing Bandages + Healing & Anatomy to Potions & Alchemy+EP? That's grasping... you get much more with alchemy + EP than you do with healing & anatomy... offensively & defensively.

How about you replace your Potions with Bandages and go pvp for a while, you should notice a difference in your performance very quickly.

I don't want potions to be useless, I want them to be used when they are needed, instead of there never being a reason not to use them.




are Supernovas hard to use or something? They've actually be one of the easiest things to use since they came out.

Finish runners off with an Explosion Potion, that might actually be impressive..because it would take some skills in timing & awareness.

Edit: I thought you avoid Supernovas by running.. How do you finish off the "runners" with them?. just another flaw in the argument I guess, it's not such a rare occurrence.

So you're telling me to use bandages and anat as opposed to pots, bandages and anat like every other healing mage or dexer... Yes, you're grasping. It seems like I'm talking to a player who hasn't played since they changed the super nova timer and added that delay before explosion. Half of the people trying to nova me miss that damn nova bc lack of timing. It seems to me like you're wanting to dumb the game down now that it's too far advanced and you're asking for lack of RNG in mage dueling when you weren't even a contender when mage dueling was a real thing. I don't understand the logic here other than to complain about the games advancements. And before you even attempt to say Shatter pots were an advancement, ask yourself how other than trolling mechanism. I logged in Sunday morning and caught probably 10 shatter pots from a group of 7 people fighting 2 people. And I also still had to fight 2 necro dismounting pets in the process, which was supposed to be "nerfed" but still hit harder than the players riding them. So yea, in comparison I do not use any crutches.

 

[805connection]

Again there is nothing anyone can say to me that says shatter potions need to go. its just lazy people complaining.

A Trap Box 100% counters any para blow in this game. Should Trap boxes be removed. And the yew Bank is pretty much 20 second run to go get more potions, if you die because you get shattered its your fault for not being conserving your resources. UO has the most care-bear pvp system in uo, no need to make it easier.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

Again there is nothing anyone can say to me that says shatter potions need to go. its just lazy people complaining.

A Trap Box 100% counters any para blow in this game. Should Trap boxes be removed. And the yew Bank is pretty much 20 second run to go get more potions, if you die because you get shattered its your fault for not being conserving your resources. UO has the most care-bear pvp system in uo, no need to make it easier.

There is more pvp than yew gate.

 

[CovenantX]

So you're telling me to use bandages and anat as opposed to pots, bandages and anat like every other healing mage or dexer... Yes, you're grasping.

You're the one comparing bandages to potions. don't compare them, That's grasping -trying to use it as leverage in the argument. they're not comparable.... aside from the fact they're "consumables"
Anyway, Potions give you much more & you don't need alchemy for most of them.

What are you going to try next Whetstones? They're consumable too (lol).

I logged in Sunday morning and caught probably 10 shatter pots from a group of 7 people fighting 2 people. And I also still had to fight 2 necro dismounting pets in the process, which was supposed to be "nerfed" but still hit harder than the players riding them. So yea, in comparison I do not use any crutches.

I was on last night fighting a tamer, he eventually got away, but his pet did about half the damage of the tamers spells... even his mares dragon's breath only did 18 to me. (Dreads pre-pet revamp use to hit closer to 45 btw).

I've fought a few tamers since they updated the pet vs player damage reduction from -30% to -50%, I haven't been hit by a pet doing more damage than a player since... pets have way stronger utility uses though. I don't pvp with any of my tamers anymore, when I did I found it boring as hell (waki-tamer w/bane dragon, maybe ~2-3 years ago).

 

[cazador]

Ok so Update... shatter pots are extremely fun to use and troll with thank you @Devs for understanding how pvp works in 2017!


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[805connection]

The Shatter Potions is just one small problem of pvp. Yew is pretty much garbage, a bunch of players chasing around one person then trying to dismount gank. When group A gets out numbered they log off and Group B proceeds to dismount gank. That is it. That is all the pvp, the skill is gone, the quality of play is gone and there is no incentive except gloating at gate trash pvp.

And were here complaing about potions? potions? really if you want more pots just take your gank squad and kill someone and loot their corpse, instant restock.

 

[805connection]

Shatter Potions should be deleted then moved to VVV items, so only people who are in VVV can use them and they need to be farmed Leave them the way they are though

 

[Merlin]

After doing another thread clean up, and needing to get involved for the third time to ask it remain impersonal, it seems any useful discussion of the topic has already been posted and further discussion will simply force me to get involved and issue more warnings.

A constant problem I see in these PVP-related topics, is that as soon as someone posts a different opinion, the validity of what they've said is some how compared to performance in-game. It's perfectly fair for less-good PVP folks and even PVM folks to make their voice heard on a topic that ultimately affects their combat. In the event someone very clearly doesn't know what they're talking about, it's fine to point that out, but this needs to be done in a manner that does not involve tearing them down personally. If every time a PVP topic comes up, we need to have a debate of "who killed who", then these topics are going to continue to end up in the ash heap.

Locking for now. Please do not re-open the topic.