Adding Power Scrolls to Tram

[TB Cookie [W]]

lol you interjected a lot of hypotheticals in there.

So hypothetically PVMers can do that spawn and walk away with that 40m power scroll too. They could to several spawns and be just fine as it is currently.

If you're using a pure mage to do a spawn you're doing it wrong.

It's doubtful you're taking a pure mage to do much of anything these days.

EVen the hardcore PVPers don't play 24/7.

Let's at least try to base this in fact instead of hypotheticals and feelings.

Currently there's no reason to move powerscrolls to tram. Your only argument so far has been, to paraphrase, "it's hard because we might be attacked by the same 10 hardcore PVPers, and they might get the scrolls."

Do I have that about right?

You are missing a lot of points to be fair.

I'm a PvPer, moaning it has got too easy/(and boring).
I'm moaning about lack of action, I don't find it fair pummeling PvMers.
I want to fight PvPers, in a better setting.

I play a pure mage mainly, yes I play it in all scenario's, that's my call, my favourite template.

Go to my fuller explanation of the changes I would make, most are about enhancing Felucca, to bring more players into Felucca PvP.
I am happy for Scrolls to go to Trammel because I don't want to force PvMers to PvP, I want them to be able to play their own game in peace.
In a more positive game setting, they are then going to gear up quicker, and be more open minded to coming to Felucca to PvP.
Their experiences towards PvP will not have been so negative as they are currently.
I want to fight competitively against like minded players, who find it fun, and want to achieve a properly defined objective.

 

[Happy Rage]

Currently selling all 120 powerscrolls on my vendors in Luna on atl. Trammies, don't worry. I'll do the dirty work. Just pay me for it.

 

[Fridgster]

Eventually people will get tired of paying the high prices and start buying them with rmt. Sad but true.

 

[Bucs Den Inc.]

So this thread is getting really old. Let's start a new one that is actually fun to read about.

New Thread: What's your favorite Dinosaur?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[OREOGL]

You are missing a lot of points to be fair.

I'm a PvPer, moaning it has got too easy/(and boring).
I'm moaning about lack of action, I don't find it fair pummeling PvMers.
I want to fight PvPers, in a better setting.

I play a pure mage mainly, yes I play it in all scenario's, that's my call, my favourite template.

Go to my fuller explanation of the changes I would make, most are about enhancing Felucca, to bring more players into Felucca PvP.
I am happy for Scrolls to go to Trammel because I don't want to force PvMers to PvP, I want them to be able to play their own game in peace.
In a more positive game setting, they are then going to gear up quicker, and be more open minded to coming to Felucca to PvP.
Their experiences towards PvP will not have been so negative as they are currently.
I want to fight competitively against like minded players, who find it fun, and want to achieve a properly defined objective.

Your response is pretty offthread.

No one forces PVMers to do anything.

You could add whatever you wanted to trammel, it's not going to get them to PVP more.

They're just looking for any easy button.

 

[elster]

If that's the case then it would make no difference adding them to Trammel. Right!? I mean what's the difference?

Don't y'all just love this argument? "You can freely do spawns in Felucca!, but don't add them to trammel".

Right...I get it now...

Like I said it's actually amusing reading players posts justifying keeping 120 powerscrolls in Felucca.

It gives incentive to join a guild and gives some of the only objective based PVP in the game. Fighting over a spawn is FUN because there are powerscrolls that you are fighting over. If there was nothing to fight over, there would be no point in raiding. If people could just go and get them in tram, there would be no stakes at all to a spawn in fel. You are looking at this the wrong way.

 

[railshot]

Your response is pretty offthread.

No one forces PVMers to do anything.

You could add whatever you wanted to trammel, it's not going to get them to PVP more.

They're just looking for any easy button.

The only easy button here is the one the PvPers have the very firm grasp on. The easy money button, to be exact. It's great way to kill the game. Just give the elite few exclusive control of a vital resource and watch majority of the pop leave in disgust. But hey, as long as you get a steady supply of hapless victims, AND get to sell the rewards for obscene amounts, it's all good, right?

 

[Fire Warrior]

My main commentary is to get rid of the two clients first, then resolve this and other issues. No I do not think there should be powerscrolls in Trammel - in fact I think pvp should be made easier for people in Trammel who don't know how or have very little experience. In other words there should be pvp tutorials that cover a variety of issues - real ones, not 'story line' ones. That does not mean they will have to pvp to get a powerscroll, sometimes they won't have to at all - but they will be more prepared if the issue was done this way, instead of forcing people in Felucca to lose value for the little they have. Also, this idea would encourage people in Trammel to form guilds who can actually defend themselves decently - rather than be lambs to the slaughter on every raid.

 

[Merus]

The only easy button here is the one the PvPers have the very firm grasp on. The easy money button, to be exact. It's great way to kill the game. Just give the elite few exclusive control of a vital resource and watch majority of the pop leave in disgust. But hey, as long as you get a steady supply of hapless victims, AND get to sell the rewards for obscene amounts, it's all good, right?

You do realize your post here has a HUGE flaw in the logic right? You really think ALL the PvP folks are on the same side? A group of PvPers doing a spawn have the same chance of getting raided as the PvMers do...

 

[Pawain]

So this thread is getting really old. Let's start a new one that is actually fun to read about.

New Thread: What's your favorite Dinosaur?

 

[Great DC]

So this thread is getting really old. Let's start a new one that is actually fun to read about.

New Thread: What's your favorite Dinosaur?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The lickalotapus! lolololol

 

[Lord Gandalf]

@psychotacos

 

[Nexus]

You do realize your post here has a HUGE flaw in the logic right? You really think ALL the PvP folks are on the same side? A group of PvPers doing a spawn have the same chance of getting raided as the PvMers do...

Except they have experience in PvP, a desire to engage in PvP, characters built for PvP..... The outcome is much less certain in this senario, than say a PvM centric guild doing a spawn and getting raided. That is the crux PvMers want to be able to engage in PvM content, with the same rewards as PvPers engaging in the same PvM content (you are killing mobs to do spawns it's PvM content up until you're raided), without being forced into a play style they find distasteful. How would PvPers feel if Slithers were account bound and you had to PvM to acquire them? Would you be happy forced into an unwanted play style?

 

[railshot]

You do realize your post here has a HUGE flaw in the logic right? You really think ALL the PvP folks are on the same side? A group of PvPers doing a spawn have the same chance of getting raided as the PvMers do...

Nope. Not even close to the same chance. A group of PvPers doing the spawn are much more likely to be left alone even if discovered. Whereas PvMers are pretty much guaranteed a raid if a PvPer comes across them. That's not even taking into consideration the chances of a good outcome after the raid which are again uncertain for PvPers vs 0% chance of success for PvMers.

 

[OREOGL]

The only easy button here is the one the PvPers have the very firm grasp on. The easy money button, to be exact. It's great way to kill the game. Just give the elite few exclusive control of a vital resource and watch majority of the pop leave in disgust. But hey, as long as you get a steady supply of hapless victims, AND get to sell the rewards for obscene amounts, it's all good, right?

So easy than anyone can do it, right?

Again, you can solo champs by yourself and rarely get raided. You just choose not too.

You can dry your tears now.

 

[OREOGL]

Except they have experience in PvP, a desire to engage in PvP, characters built for PvP..... The outcome is much less certain in this senario, than say a PvM centric guild doing a spawn and getting raided. That is the crux PvMers want to be able to engage in PvM content, with the same rewards as PvPers engaging in the same PvM content (you are killing mobs to do spawns it's PvM content up until you're raided), without being forced into a play style they find distasteful. How would PvPers feel if Slithers were account bound and you had to PvM to acquire them? Would you be happy forced into an unwanted play style?

Except this isn't a factor at least 75% of the time because there is no raid.

And No one is forced to do anything.

It's just a crutch excuse for those who are too scared to try.

If they didn't want to pvm for a slither they could just buy one like they always have...

 

[Nexus]

Except this isn't a factor at least 75% of the time because there is no raid.

And No one is forced to do anything.

It's just a crutch excuse for those who are too scared to try.

If they didn't want to pvm for a slither they could just buy one like they always have...

This is about the 25% of the time there is, though I don't know where you get that number.....

Re-read what I wrote, I asked what would PvPers think if they were to account bind slithers, in other words you wouldn't be able to buy them. Would the PvPers be happy if they woke up and found out they would have to go engage into a PvM content setting to get those items?

My Point with that is, they'd probably be furious, they would say, "I don't want to PvM" it's the same deal, some people don't want to PvP, and you can't always find a scroll you are looking for on most Shards.

 

[Great DC]

Just so you know pvper's are probably the best pvmers in UO too. We can do anything we want, some people choose to buy stuff and others farm it, its a choice. Pvm to us isn't very fun since the monsters are guaranteed to do the same thing over and over, whereas pvp its person behind it and its more unpredictable. There is no challenge in fighting something that you can purposely gear yourself to survive it no matter what.

 

[railshot]

So easy than anyone can do it, right?

Again, you can solo champs by yourself and rarely get raided. You just choose not too.

You can dry your tears now.

You realize you are contradicting yourself in two consecutive statements, right? But who needs logic?

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

You do realize your post here has a HUGE flaw in the logic right? You really think ALL the PvP folks are on the same side? A group of PvPers doing a spawn have the same chance of getting raided as the PvMers do...

We only do spawns to get ourselves raided, we stopped needing scrolls many years ago.
Of course the tamer thing put a dent in our stocks, but no-one can stop us doing spawns and getting scrolls when we really want to.

When we do a spawn, we announce it in gen chat, to get pvpers to raid us, we don't care if we win or lose, we don't need the scrolls, we don't play for them even, or the boss.
The only reason we kill the boss, is to show a winning post.

(Sometimes we would keep the boss up for up to 2 hours, if we are having a good fight, to allow waves and waves to come back, then we'd kill the boss when we are bored, or in danger of losing, or need to evacuate due to people logging etc).

Putting Scrolls in Tram would not affect this style (maybe make the drop rate half in Tram like most things). We would still spawn in Fel, and those PvPers who played in Fel, could still raid us.
I understand PvPers who like this style, we do, but Order/Chaos/Factions/VvV were the real PvP encounters that were meant to be the focus point of PvP. If they enhanced this system back up, we could get more PvP.
The current Champ spawn style, carries too much attrition, in the current climate. Too many weak minded characters in the current PvP scene, feeding on players who don't want to be in that situation.
I'm not even saying get rid of this scenario, but I'm saying, give people a {real} choice of how they want to play it.

Onto Nexus's point - I find it very hard to find any motivation to PvM.I just can't do it.
I can do certain things for fun, but I struggle on the big grind stuff.
That's why I'm asking for the game to be opened up to all playstyles - I'd like PvPers equally to be able to get the rewards PvMers. I'd like Crafters to be more involved.

 

[Merus]

Nope. Not even close to the same chance. A group of PvPers doing the spawn are much more likely to be left alone even if discovered. Whereas PvMers are pretty much guaranteed a raid if a PvPer comes across them. That's not even taking into consideration the chances of a good outcome after the raid which are again uncertain for PvPers vs 0% chance of success for PvMers.

Your opinion is so far off base is hardly worth responding to. You really think a group of PvPers is going to leave a spawn alone because its being done by other PvPers... its laughable.

 

[Merus]

Except they have experience in PvP, a desire to engage in PvP, characters built for PvP..... The outcome is much less certain in this senario, than say a PvM centric guild doing a spawn and getting raided. That is the crux PvMers want to be able to engage in PvM content, with the same rewards as PvPers engaging in the same PvM content (you are killing mobs to do spawns it's PvM content up until you're raided), without being forced into a play style they find distasteful. How would PvPers feel if Slithers were account bound and you had to PvM to acquire them? Would you be happy forced into an unwanted play style?

Yes, PvPers are more equipped to defend themselves.... so? If you don't want to be prepared and don't like the risk, buy the scrolls. Sell a cameo or a slither or a small soul forge or a halo or... or... or...

If you don't want to pvp (or risk pvp, because 75% of the time you do a spawn you'll never see anyone) then you don't have to. Never once, NOT ONCE, have I ever drilled for oil, the investment cost is just too high... yet I put gas in my car every week. No one is forced to drill for oil or work in a refinery just to obtain gasoline. Powerscrolls in UO are no different. If you don't like the work to obtain them, buy them. EOS.

 

[OREOGL]

You realize you are contradicting yourself in two consecutive statements, right? But who needs logic?

The first line was a question meant for leading...it wasn't sarcasm.

The answer was yes, anyone can do it.

It's okay, comprehension isn't everyone's thing.

 

[OREOGL]

We only do spawns to get ourselves raided, we stopped needing scrolls many years ago.
Of course the tamer thing put a dent in our stocks, but no-one can stop us doing spawns and getting scrolls when we really want to.

When we do a spawn, we announce it in gen chat, to get pvpers to raid us, we don't care if we win or lose, we don't need the scrolls, we don't play for them even, or the boss.
The only reason we kill the boss, is to show a winning post.

(Sometimes we would keep the boss up for up to 2 hours, if we are having a good fight, to allow waves and waves to come back, then we'd kill the boss when we are bored, or in danger of losing, or need to evacuate due to people logging etc).

Putting Scrolls in Tram would not affect this style (maybe make the drop rate half in Tram like most things). We would still spawn in Fel, and those PvPers who played in Fel, could still raid us.
I understand PvPers who like this style, we do, but Order/Chaos/Factions/VvV were the real PvP encounters that were meant to be the focus point of PvP. If they enhanced this system back up, we could get more PvP.
The current Champ spawn style, carries too much attrition, in the current climate. Too many weak minded characters in the current PvP scene, feeding on players who don't want to be in that situation.
I'm not even saying get rid of this scenario, but I'm saying, give people a {real} choice of how they want to play it.

Onto Nexus's point - I find it very hard to find any motivation to PvM.I just can't do it.
I can do certain things for fun, but I struggle on the big grind stuff.
That's why I'm asking for the game to be opened up to all playstyles - I'd like PvPers equally to be able to get the rewards PvMers. I'd like Crafters to be more involved.

You neglect to say that even sometimes when you pop a champ for a fight that no one shows up a good amount of the time. Even after announcing in GC.

Doing anything with powerscrolls at this point is an exercise in futility.

 

[Mervyn]

Just give the elite few exclusive control of a vital resource and watch majority of the pop leave in disgust. But hey, as long as you get a steady supply of hapless victims, AND get to sell the rewards for obscene amounts, it's all good, right?

I've never been referred to as ELITE before, the real ELITE few are the vets who can use shard shields who farm on dead shards and bring the 120s to Atlantic. Which, i warned them about before shard shields even came out but the reponse from the SJWs on stratics was, ah it won't make any difference the odd 5 people doing that....

 

[Cetric]

This is about the 25% of the time there is, though I don't know where you get that number.....

Re-read what I wrote, I asked what would PvPers think if they were to account bind slithers, in other words you wouldn't be able to buy them. Would the PvPers be happy if they woke up and found out they would have to go engage into a PvM content setting to get those items?

My Point with that is, they'd probably be furious, they would say, "I don't want to PvM" it's the same deal, some people don't want to PvP, and you can't always find a scroll you are looking for on most Shards.

You cant always find a slither either. Or a Mage/eval mark of travesty, etc.

Doesn't mean i'm gunna go do medusa/travesty

 

[railshot]

Your opinion is so far off base is hardly worth responding to. You really think a group of PvPers is going to leave a spawn alone because its being done by other PvPers... its laughable.

Will a solo PvPer attack 3 PvPers doing a spawn? Probably not. Yet he will attack 3 PvMers any time of the day and win.

 

[Merus]

Will a solo PvPer attack 3 PvPers doing a spawn? Probably not. Yet he will attack 3 PvMers any time of the day and win.

Like I said, you clearly have no idea.

 

[Nexus]

Yes, PvPers are more equipped to defend themselves.... so? If you don't want to be prepared and don't like the risk, buy the scrolls. Sell a cameo or a slither or a small soul forge or a halo or... or... or...

If you don't want to pvp (or risk pvp, because 75% of the time you do a spawn you'll never see anyone) then you don't have to. Never once, NOT ONCE, have I ever drilled for oil, the investment cost is just too high... yet I put gas in my car every week. No one is forced to drill for oil or work in a refinery just to obtain gasoline. Powerscrolls in UO are no different. If you don't like the work to obtain them, buy them. EOS.

You neglect to say that even sometimes when you pop a champ for a fight that no one shows up a good amount of the time. Even after announcing in GC.

Doing anything with powerscrolls at this point is an exercise in futility.

So you guys are adamant that the majority of the time spawns aren't raided.. this might be true I've seen no stats to say one way or the other. But lets assume this is true, and the risk of being raided is negligible, and it's more or less safe to run this without risk. Then what's it matter what facet you can get the 120 drops on?

This has been my entire point, at every turn we hear excuses that ring false and people trying to offhandedly dismiss the idea. I want to hear an honest answer.

IF as has been claimed in this thread and others the chances of being raided are marginal
IF PvPers want more competitive and balanced PvP
IF PvPers could actually care less about the scrolls they don't need

Then why does it matter what facet the 120 drops happen on?

IS the reason because they need the Scrolls and Artie drops to afford their 2 plat suits?
IS the reason cause they still believe that Risk vs Reward exists outside of Mugen and Siege (it doesn't btw)?

Seriously, if you can go to a spawn as a PvPer and broadcast over Gen Chat and hope for a raid that wouldn't change. If you aren't raiding Trammelites anyways, that doesn't change. If you don't need the scrolls, that doesn't change. Then what is the objection?

IF your only reason is "I don't want it to change" then you are failing to realize something

​

​

 

[Merus]

So you guys are adamant that the majority of the time spawns aren't raided.. this might be true I've seen no stats to say one way or the other. But lets assume this is true, and the risk of being raided is negligible, and it's more or less safe to run this without risk. Then what's it matter what facet you can get the 120 drops on?

This has been my entire point, at every turn we hear excuses that ring false and people trying to offhandedly dismiss the idea. I want to hear an honest answer.

IF as has been claimed in this thread and others the chances of being raided are marginal
IF PvPers want more competitive and balanced PvP
IF PvPers could actually care less about the scrolls they don't need

Then why does it matter what facet the 120 drops happen on?

IS the reason because they need the Scrolls and Artie drops to afford their 2 plat suits?
IS the reason cause they still believe that Risk vs Reward exists outside of Mugen and Siege (it doesn't btw)?

Seriously, if you can go to a spawn as a PvPer and broadcast over Gen Chat and hope for a raid that wouldn't change. If you aren't raiding Trammelites anyways, that doesn't change. If you don't need the scrolls, that doesn't change. Then what is the objection?

IF your only reason is "I don't want it to change" then you are failing to realize something

​

​

Because there should be items in the game that are exclusive to those who are willing to take the risk... even if the risk is less than what most folks seem to think the risk is.

 

[OREOGL]

So you guys are adamant that the majority of the time spawns aren't raided.. this might be true I've seen no stats to say one way or the other. But lets assume this is true, and the risk of being raided is negligible, and it's more or less safe to run this without risk. Then what's it matter what facet you can get the 120 drops on?

This has been my entire point, at every turn we hear excuses that ring false and people trying to offhandedly dismiss the idea. I want to hear an honest answer.

IF as has been claimed in this thread and others the chances of being raided are marginal
IF PvPers want more competitive and balanced PvP
IF PvPers could actually care less about the scrolls they don't need

Then why does it matter what facet the 120 drops happen on?

IS the reason because they need the Scrolls and Artie drops to afford their 2 plat suits?
IS the reason cause they still believe that Risk vs Reward exists outside of Mugen and Siege (it doesn't btw)?

Seriously, if you can go to a spawn as a PvPer and broadcast over Gen Chat and hope for a raid that wouldn't change. If you aren't raiding Trammelites anyways, that doesn't change. If you don't need the scrolls, that doesn't change. Then what is the objection?

IF your only reason is "I don't want it to change" then you are failing to realize something

​

​

Sorry man, the "well if it's not going to hurt anything..." isn't a reason to move scrolls.

I mean if it is, let's put slither drops on champs. What does it matter if they go there, am I right?

The argument for justification isn't on us to make.

So far all I've seen is, "it's frustrating, PVMers can't win if they get raided, and now the if it doesn't matter it must be okay."

In reality , you all only have to convince the devs. And by track record probably already done.

Really though, PVP is pretty much dead.

I'm done chasing the power creep and I'm not about to sink more money to remain competitive on a 20 year old game.

Frankly, they can do what they want. Whatever little affect power scrolls have now on PVP, would be just another nail if moved to trammel.


There is of course, different opinions so I wouldn't try to make one opinion the generalized consensus like you're trying to do.

 

[Nexus]

I mean if it is, let's put slither drops on champs. What does it matter if they go there, am I right?

It wouldn't matter, I'm all for all either Reds being able to access Trammel ruleset facets, or Facet Exclusive drops being available on all facets.

 

[GarthGrey]

The lickalotapus! lolololol

I would have gotten a warning for this one, just saying, since it hasn't been deleted yet. but unlike the 2 whining guild members, I won't report it to a mod with my sad face on.

 

[Fridgster]

I would have gotten a warning for this one, just saying, since it hasn't been deleted yet. but unlike the 2 whining guild members, I won't report it to a mod with my sad face on.

Heh. I agree hence the signature.

 

[OREOGL]

It wouldn't matter, I'm all for all either Reds being able to access Trammel ruleset facets, or Facet Exclusive drops being available on all facets.

One paragraph was not the sum of the argument.

 

[Nexus]

One paragraph was not the sum of the argument.

No one has provided a talking point worthy of argument beyond the facet exclusive drops, everything else has been posturing and denial.


Actually let me add to this

I'm firmly against facet or rule-set exclusive drops, it sows discontent and resentment among the community and is something that in my opinion should be removed.

 

[railshot]

Like I said, you clearly have no idea.

When you can't provide a coherent response, attack your opponent? Does that still work?

 

[OREOGL]

No one has provided a talking point worthy of argument beyond the facet exclusive drops, everything else has been posturing and denial.


Actually let me add to this

I'm firmly against facet or rule-set exclusive drops, it sows discontent and resentment among the community and is something that in my opinion should be removed.

You're right no one has provided a worthy argument. Especially in favor of moving them to trammel.

"Why not?" Is never a sound justification.

However, they open the door to this they are going to create a great deal of work for themselves.

 

[railshot]

You're right no one has provided a worthy argument. Especially in favor of moving them to trammel.

"Why not?" Is never a sound justification.

However, they open the door to this they are going to create a great deal of work for themselves.

The argument has been stated multiple times, but you seem to either ignore it or dismiss it with no supportable arguments of your own. I'll try again although it's clear that personal gain beats logic and reason at this point.
1. Currently, Power Scrolls are a resource that is pretty much required for player templates and highly desirable for pets. It's not a luxury.
2. This resource is controlled by a tiny proportion of the players. I don't care that you think anyone can farm them unmolested 24/7 if only they were brave enough. The reality contradicts you.
3. This tiny proportion of the players uses their control to prevent others from accessing this resource, as well as to provide themselves with unskilled PvP targets.
4. They also use this control to keep prices artificially high with the purpose of benefiting themselves.
5. This monopoly arrangement and forced PvP alienates the large proportion of UO population.
6. Unhappy majority is not good for the game.

Is that clear enough?

 

[Nexus]

You're right no one has provided a worthy argument. Especially in favor of moving them to trammel.

"Why not?" Is never a sound justification.

However, they open the door to this they are going to create a great deal of work for themselves.

Of course it would require work, but you know what... it required work to basically destroy all the new player friendly content in the game as well. It required work to add the, in my opinion, un-necessary revamp to Taming which is proving to be a new source of contention as well. Obviously the Dev team isn't opposed to tackling projects which require a great deal of work, and I wouldn't expect something like this to happen over night, but I do feel it should be evaluated and potentially added to the agenda.

I've said I'm in favor of doing away with facet or rule-set specific drops, I'm also in favor of them making items easier to obtain so prices come down. With new player content basically wiped, any new player (what few there are) are pretty much training their characters the same way vets are, and need access to the same items, scrolls included, that Vets do. However realistically expecting a new player to have 40 mil to scroll up a character, and lord knows how much to gear up in a short period without resorting to RMT is foolishness.

Opening such things up, in a way that will drive prices down might help UO retain new players when they do wander in as they won't be immediately priced out of everything..

 

[Great DC]

This nonsense about scrolls reminds me of the shard shield thread I made years ago saying it shouldn't be a 14 yr reward. All of the same people who long veterans to the game think they are entitled to it for paying long subs. These people are no different then trust fund babies irl. The sense of entitlement is just sickening. Now you hear them complain you cant get the scrolls on their home shard but they were very adamant about having their shard shields. Shards are dead cause of free transfers due to shields, if you think its not your just a idiot. Now when there is a reason to having more scrolls and things on their home shards, but too bad its on atlantic cause you had to have your shields.

 

[MrUber]

wow people need some kleenex for all these tears .. just go to fel EARN a scroll and be happy

 

[MrUber]

If 98% of the player base is trammel based people, why cant you guys get together and defend off the 2% pvpers. I keep hearing this percentage across so many of these fel/tram based arguments. I find this thread hilarious and sad that people cant get their own scrolls.

 

[Merus]

When you can't provide a coherent response, attack your opponent? Does that still work?

The coherent response has been provided to you, over and over. Unfortunately your ability to comprehend is lacking. You clearly do not understand the way PvPers act. Until you get a true frame of reference from which to make an argument, it is pointless to discuss with you. Arguing over the color of the sky with a blind man is pointless... arguing over PvP related issues with someone who has no idea what PvP entails (other than OMG I got pked) is also pointless.

 

[OREOGL]

The argument has been stated multiple times, but you seem to either ignore it or dismiss it with no supportable arguments of your own. I'll try again although it's clear that personal gain beats logic and reason at this point.
1. Currently, Power Scrolls are a resource that is pretty much required for player templates and highly desirable for pets. It's not a luxury.
2. This resource is controlled by a tiny proportion of the players. I don't care that you think anyone can farm them unmolested 24/7 if only they were brave enough. The reality contradicts you.
3. This tiny proportion of the players uses their control to prevent others from accessing this resource, as well as to provide themselves with unskilled PvP targets.
4. They also use this control to keep prices artificially high with the purpose of benefiting themselves.
5. This monopoly arrangement and forced PvP alienates the large proportion of UO population.
6. Unhappy majority is not good for the game.

Is that clear enough?

I didn't ignore anything, I simply gave you an answer you didn't like to hear.

1. This is not a justification.

2. You're ignoring facts. I've been farming scrolls for years by myself and others have to. You're making things up to fit an argument and when any opposition comes up "you don't care what they say", let alone the fallacy of me saying they wouldn't be attacked or in your case go "unmolested 24/7".

3. Another fallacy. Yep you may get attacked but no one has complete control and even if they did you're trying to use that as a justification? Feel free to use the "it's not fair" argument if you want.

4. They aren't controlling the supply, demand is doing that. Even if they were you can farm them yourself.

5. This is a fallacy. They do not have a monopoly and no one is forced to do anything.

6. There's only a vocal minority crying about power scrolls not being in trammel.

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

If you guys want power scrolls in trammel, I want all the attainable arties currently in tram to be put into Fel. I mean if we are 'FORCING' you to come to fel, why should you 'FORCE' us to go to tram?

 

[OREOGL]

Of course it would require work, but you know what... it required work to basically destroy all the new player friendly content in the game as well. It required work to add the, in my opinion, un-necessary revamp to Taming which is proving to be a new source of contention as well. Obviously the Dev team isn't opposed to tackling projects which require a great deal of work, and I wouldn't expect something like this to happen over night, but I do feel it should be evaluated and potentially added to the agenda.

I've said I'm in favor of doing away with facet or rule-set specific drops, I'm also in favor of them making items easier to obtain so prices come down. With new player content basically wiped, any new player (what few there are) are pretty much training their characters the same way vets are, and need access to the same items, scrolls included, that Vets do. However realistically expecting a new player to have 40 mil to scroll up a character, and lord knows how much to gear up in a short period without resorting to RMT is foolishness.

Opening such things up, in a way that will drive prices down might help UO retain new players when they do wander in as they won't be immediately priced out of everything..

Why would we expect new players to have 40m or to even scroll a character out right away?

The new character content is a completely different thread. Don't expect to see it, at all. They can barely manage existing content.

You know how long it took me to get my first mil?

With inflation it takes far less effort to get there now.

If someone actually strung a rational explanation of why these just have to be in trammel Id consider it, but I haven't seen that yet.

 

[Picus at the office]

Why people would pay to play UO and not PvP to some extent is beyond me. 100% of the time is silly as some of the PvM stuff is fun to do but NOTHING beats winning a raid be it defending or attacking.

As for scrolls, if you haven't been able to figure a way to farm them by now you are just looking for an excuse for personal failure. Step up and feel like a winner for once in your lives, it's easy to be a UO champ.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

You neglect to say that even sometimes when you pop a champ for a fight that no one shows up a good amount of the time. Even after announcing in GC.

I agree. And even now, which is a boost due to tamers, this will die down, and go empty again soon enough.

Really though, PVP is pretty much dead.
.

I completely agree. Aside from the temporary boost right now, which will die down to what is was before, soon enough.

Which is why, If you had read my entire logic, and proposals, I was suggesting they give PvMers Champ Scrolls, in return for a massive boost to Fel based and PvP based incentives for the PvPers. It is meant to be a win win situation, not one for people to get all defensive about.
I have proposed they boost the real PvP scenario - VvV, to include rewards obtainable via Trammel PvM, so we can PvP for them, and achieve them if we are successful.

I'm firmly against facet or rule-set exclusive drops, it sows discontent and resentment among the community and is something that in my opinion should be removed.

I've agreed with all of your posts. We are the last of a dying breed maybe
That's often how I feel, and it's depressing.
I've tried to see beyond the nose in front of my face, I do enjoy all playstyles, and I've tried to help UO, by helping to improve all of the playstyles I've played, and see faults in.

 

[OREOGL]

I agree. And even now, which is a boost due to tamers, this will die down, and go empty again soon enough.




I completely agree. Aside from the temporary boost right now, which will die down to what is was before, soon enough.

Which is why, If you had read my entire logic, and proposals, I was suggesting they give PvMers Champ Scrolls, in return for a massive boost to Fel based and PvP based incentives for the PvPers. It is meant to be a win win situation, not one for people to get all defensive about.
I have proposed they boost the real PvP scenario - VvV, to include rewards obtainable via Trammel PvM, so we can PvP for them, and achieve them if we are successful.




I've agreed with all of your posts. We are the last of a dying breed maybe
That's often how I feel, and it's depressing.
I've tried to see beyond the nose in front of my face, I do enjoy all playstyles, and I've tried to help UO, by helping to improve all of the playstyles I've played, and see faults in.

well the first flaw in the logic is thinking they'd give any boosts to pvp.

Bleak took a stab at some balancing which improved some aspects and ruined others of PVP.

As long as I can recall there has been stiff opposition to anything Fel by a lot of the same people.

the only reason they introduced VVV is because they broke factions beyond all repair.

If I recall they're supposed to take a second pass at VVV this year, but I wouldn't hold my breathe.