It is not nearly the same. Any PvPer is free to farm anything they want in Tram without any opposition. It's not the same with Trammies going to Fel, is it?
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PvPers SHOULD be at a disadvantage when it comes to pvping against PvMers in Felucca.
{In the old days, they went red for real, and suffered Permanent Statloss, now they get nothing}.
End of the day, if pvmers go to fel, it is to farm/collect stuff, do spawns, pvm.
They risk being hassled when they don't really want to be, they risk being attacked, losing stuff they have been collecting and losing the most valuable commodity in life - time.
PvPers playstyle in this respect is natural in the world order, but still aggressive and anti social, playing the role of villains, thiefs, cowards etc.
To that end, PvP SHOULD be about challenge, it should not be handed to them on a plate, as their playstyle is already destructive enough in it's very nature.
These days, PvPers play on completely gimped templates, that cannot kill any mobs in pvm, but are 100% designed to kill players, fair enough you may say, but said target players are often with half an eye on the mobs, they are at an immediate disadvantage, a, not a 100% designed template, b, half an eye on their main focus c, usually taken out by a well timed surprise attack.
PvPers have it too easy. They have been allowed to gimp their templates, and kills have got too easy and risk free for them.
When a pvpers raids/kills someone, it should be hard, it should be quite a main achievement for them to actually pull it off, there should be 80% risk of them dying, unless they did something special, and completely outbrained, out strategied their targets.
Buff tamers and pvmers more, allow more of them in Fel, you will create far more opportunity and fun.
I'm really fed up of whining PvPers, they suck in their attitude, this is why PvP has died, because the players with style and class have already left. Including myself btw.
{In the old days, they went red for real, and suffered Permanent Statloss, now they get nothing}.
End of the day, if pvmers go to fel, it is to farm/collect stuff, do spawns, pvm.
They risk being hassled when they don't really want to be, they risk being attacked, losing stuff they have been collecting and losing the most valuable commodity in life - time.
PvPers playstyle in this respect is natural in the world order, but still aggressive and anti social, playing the role of villains, thiefs, cowards etc.
To that end, PvP SHOULD be about challenge, it should not be handed to them on a plate, as their playstyle is already destructive enough in it's very nature.
These days, PvPers play on completely gimped templates, that cannot kill any mobs in pvm, but are 100% designed to kill players, fair enough you may say, but said target players are often with half an eye on the mobs, they are at an immediate disadvantage, a, not a 100% designed template, b, half an eye on their main focus c, usually taken out by a well timed surprise attack.
PvPers have it too easy. They have been allowed to gimp their templates, and kills have got too easy and risk free for them.
When a pvpers raids/kills someone, it should be hard, it should be quite a main achievement for them to actually pull it off, there should be 80% risk of them dying, unless they did something special, and completely outbrained, out strategied their targets.
Buff tamers and pvmers more, allow more of them in Fel, you will create far more opportunity and fun.
I'm really fed up of whining PvPers, they suck in their attitude, this is why PvP has died, because the players with style and class have already left. Including myself btw.
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I really doubt many new people have come to fel because of this change. It's just caused people who already play there to have to take up taming because it's OP in pvp.
Tamers are happy because what you said is factually incorrect. Pets do different damage types and they have different sets of abilities available to them. Even the same pet type can be made into drastically different entities.
So tamers have plenty to be happy about as long as the devs don't nerf everything to the level it was pre-paublish.
RhelHalcyon
Journeyman
Really? Tamers aren't any where near as effective as some other builds in PvM. Builds that haven't been changed/touched in decades and builds you can literally roll your face across the keyboard and win. <sarcasm> Want an even easier fix? Force all PvPers to go to Seige/Mugen. I bet the esteemed psuedo-PvPers on prodo shards wouldn't enjoy that. Why go somewhere with so much risk when you can milk the cash cow that are prodo shards? </sarcasm>
They should just make Tram only shards and with spawns that drop shard bound power scrolls. Then watch and see how much of the remaining population goes to those shards. Either that or how about reduce pet damage to 0% in PvP and increase it by 500% in PvM? I mean if someone's preferred build is being blocked from accessing 50% of the game content they're paying for, then there better be some benefits.
I can't believe that someone would actually suggest removing pets from an aspect of the game someone pays to play. Tamers pay as much as any other build to use their skills (ie Pets) in ALL aspects of the game. No one should be forced to adhere to a play style just because their current play style is the FOTM. Do people even read what they write before posting anymore? I guess I shouldn't be surprised... this has been what's crippled UO for decades imo.
In the end, the devs will cripple the work they've been doing with the pet changes into uselessness due to posts like this - effectively wasting several months of development and further reducing the population.
You really don't understand taming do you? Before this update there literally was only a handful of viable end game pets. The Greater Dragon, the Frost Dragon, and the dragon turtle. You could use combo's like rune beetles and mares etc but they weren't tanky enough for end game. The pet revamp allows you to customize other pets and bring them up to par with what the previous end game pets could do - essentially giving you options on what your pet looked like, without any loss in effectiveness. What's so funny about people paying 10-15m for a wrestling scroll for a pet that will actually use it and not paying 250k for a scroll that their tamer never will?
The fact that you state the only "draw-back" as being too many slots really shows how little you know about the shift in taming. There are still very viable reasons to search for specific stats on tames, its just shifted from "find the one with 95% in every stat/resist/skill" to "find the one that can then be upgrade the most with ideal stats/resist/skills to start your build." A prime example of this is finding a Cu with high phys/fire resist and bottomed out energy/cold resist coupled with max str and hp. So where there isn't a reason to "hunt down" that old 5.0 creature - there is still reason to "hunt" down specific creatures with a given stat range fitting your build.
If tamers and trammel people "aren't worth fighting" then perhaps they should just add scrolls to Trammel and find some other incentive to get people to go to fel so you can PK them.
There sure are a lot of asinine posts based on assumptions on these forums...
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The taming revamp has definitely brought people back to UO and some other people are playing a lot more than they used to. We have seen quite a few new people at the bank meeting for new/returning players on Europa and many of them have said that it was interest in the pet changes that brought them back. I think it would be a great shame if pets got nerfed to the point where those people left again. Please don't make changes that affect PvM, it just always seems to have a knock-on effect when the Devs try to please the PvP population, tamers are really happy with their lot now, let's keep it that way!
You explained the behaviours and issues of pvp very well.
People abused the pvp system in uo. Only the vice and virtue is pvp. The other parts of Felucca, especially power scrolls areas are not really pvp anymore. It mixed a lot of sins, robbery, greed, harrassment. Many players felt painful for negative impacts.
This isn't about power scrolls... And like I have said other times just leave pvm alone even tho I do agree they are overpowered there too. Would rather this thread stay on topic and be focused on fixing them for PvP and PvP only if it's gunna turn into this old tired debate.
@Merlin @Captn Norrington
@Merlin @Captn Norrington
I've stated earlier that I don't mind changes that effect only pvp. I stand by that statement. It has however become painfully obvious that many will not be happy until the new taming publish has been nerfed into oblivion for both pvm and pvp.
Personally I feel anyone who actually thinks taming in pvm is overpowered doesn't pvm very much at all. Both my sampire and wammy can still out perform my tamer. Pointing to one encounter (shadowguard) is a very weak argument. One major encounter out of all the encounters in uo is sort of a joke. A bad joke at that.
Oh and 50% of people playing are pvpers is well...
Personally I feel anyone who actually thinks taming in pvm is overpowered doesn't pvm very much at all. Both my sampire and wammy can still out perform my tamer. Pointing to one encounter (shadowguard) is a very weak argument. One major encounter out of all the encounters in uo is sort of a joke. A bad joke at that.
Oh and 50% of people playing are pvpers is well...
Which kind of pvp ? Please specifically decribe your encounter.
Umm...all I guess. There's not a scenario in PvP where a pet isn't changing the fight. Even in a grinder filled with parafields a najasaurus can just run around through them as if they weren't there. So Yea... All of them.
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Risk Vs Reward
Ummmm... that same thing can be said when it pertains to people (or a person) showing up and trying to take a spawn from a tamer. Prior to the Pet Revamp there was no risk at all in taking the spawn as tamers were at a severe disadvantage, so there was a few years of nothing but reward. There is no way a player and a pet should be at a disadvantage against just a single player. Yet, that is where things stood. Plenty of tamers still took that risk in hopes of the reward... and paid the price.
RhelHalcyon
Journeyman
My experience with UO and its "adjustments" is that you can't "fix PvP" and not adversely affect PvM. Although there are two separate facets in the game, they have no influence on skills/stats of tames and people. The most that could be done is reduction of <item/tame> on player characters. The phoenix nerf is a prime example of this. The speed of the phoenix for PvM was perfectly fine, unfortunately it was nerfed because of PvP and is now also nerfed in PvM. This is a prime example of how something such as your original post started out being "strictly to fix PvP" yet spilled over into PvM. It's very hard for someone who enjoys PvM to not chime in when historically calls to change PvP in posts like this one have already adversely affected others play styles.
You can call for focus to be on PvP all you want - but history dictates that its never *just* pvp.
Also - until every build is at most as viable and effective and efficient as a sampire in PvM - nothing is overpowered. Just my two cents.
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That is another thing I wanted to make a comment on.. thanks for kind of reminding me..
In an earlier post someone said something to the effect of "A Sampire is not an effective PvP temp".... well... errrrr, maybe now it should be. Instead of staying with the mentality of "we have used these temps for PvP of X amount of time".. maybe it is time to overcome, adjust and adapt. Raiding a spawn? Throw a couple Sampires in to deal with the pet(s)... problem kinda solved then right?
I think many logical statements have been made that would have no effect on pvm. Take that issue up with the Devs. Even the phoenix issue (which was extremely broken) had good suggestions to not change it for pvm. Though altering its movement speed didn't have much if any noticable effect on its usage in pvm. So outside of an artwork change that i really didn't see people clamoring for in the first place outside of a few left field comments about how they are hard to see, the phoenix is still just as effective in pvm as it was before.
Even a sampire cannot effectively kill the pets, let alone would anyone ever feel a desire to play a sampire in a pvp scenario. That mentality would work when you had groups of 20 running around, you could dedicate players for a task. That is not today's uO.
Its still a forced playstyle - they are free to sure, but does that mean they want to? Same with going to fel and dealing with fighting players. Maybe Devs can hand pvpers all the good items in the game for free so we dont have to do any type of pvm, and then they can provide all the content to pvmers without any barriers.
That was meant to be sarcastic...
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Now that is not an entirely accurate statement. Decreasing pet speed in order to balance PvP has had an impact on PvM as well. There are plenty of times I send my pet after something that has targeted me. The pet used to pop over there quickly and do it's job... to where now the pet slowly walks over to the area me and the offending mob used to be at because I am at a dead run trying to keep the Succubus, Allousaurus or Dimesaures off my azz... meanwhile the pet is back there walking like he is out for a Sunday stroll in no hurry at all...
Survivable? Yeah... Can I make adjustments to my playstyle to combat it? Yeah.. just employ the decades old (sheshh.. we can say that about UO now
) strategy of running in a circle as groups of mages used to do (one mage would keep the mob following them in a circle around a group of mages in the center of it casting on the mob) until the pet finally gets it's teeth on the target. Keep in mind this is nowhere near the first time the Devs have adjusted all pet speed to accommodate the PvP crowd. GD's, Cu's etc used to insta-pounce whatever a tamer put them on... but.. the PvP crowd did not like that *shrugs* they loved their advantage over tamers and did not want insta-pounce to level the playing field at all
Pets still do that pounce effect. The only change was making movement speed no faster than the equivalent of 190 dex... which is still faster than the rune beetle which was the fastest tamable pet prior to this publish.Now that is not an entirely accurate statement. Decreasing pet speed in order to balance PvP has had an impact on PvM as well. There are plenty of times I send my pet after something that has targeted me. The pet used to pop over there quickly and do it's job... to where now the pet slowly walks over to the area me and the offending mob used to be at because I am at a dead run trying to keep the Succubus, Allousaurus or Dimesaures off my azz... meanwhile the pet is back there walking like he is out for a Sunday stroll in no hurry at all...
Survivable? Yeah... Can I make adjustments to my playstyle to combat it? Yeah.. just employ the decades old (sheshh.. we can say that about UO now
Keep in mind this is nowhere near the first time the Devs have adjusted all pet speed to accommodate the PvP crowd. GD's, Cu's etc used to insta-pounce whatever a tamer put them on... but.. the PvP crowd did not like that *shrugs* they loved their advantage over tamers and did not want insta-pounce to level the playing field at all
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Agreed.. or at least that is what is stated "on paper".. but in reality (errr or in fantasy lol because UO is not reality - but I digress lol) I see a major change in how my pets actually work when ya send them on something. Sure, they will do a slower insta-pounce on the initial target in PvM.. but any target after that? You are gonna get a pet that walks about as fast as a drunk on Sat night as he is leaving the bar and a cop is sitting outside... only without the staggering. And if that pet is damaged? Fuggedaboutit....
I mean heck I can out walk a pet that is damaged... not out run.. but out walk it.. now what threat does that represent to any of the speed hacking PvP'ers?
I dunno - from what i ever remember seeing the first attack was the only initial "pounce effect", and subsequent attacks just moved across the screen. Not sure what your comment regarding a damaged pet being slow is about.
Player vs Player IS a challenge. Player vs 3 dismounting teleporting nightmares that cast 4/6 magery spells and are better than their controller is ridiculous. Back when murderers had perma stat loss and real consequences, there was no dismounting pets or mobs of overpowered survivable templates to play. You HAD to rely on your skill alone. Your trammies running into Felluca, saying all kill, and running for their lives isn't a challenge nor is it fun for anyone but what you describe as "cowards".
Simply remove special moves from pets in pvp, do not allow them to teleport onto a player, and revamp their casting to 2/6 in pvp JUST like a player. Do not make any changes in pvm, so the trammies who cannot compete in pvp regardless, can still kill the hardest pets in the game with a cu sidhe that discords and heals itself on top of consume damage. Let's not make the game completely mindless and too easy for the push to play players here. The ones that have put time and effort into learning game mechanics and fighting not only monsters but players as well, should have the advantage. That's how the world works. The ones who put fourth the effort reap the rewards. In our "everyone gets a trophy" society, this has turned into a mess for veteran players.
You clearly have no experience fighting a 900 hp pet with 3 other players and 2 other pets attacking you. You're throwing out scenario's that YOU YOURSELF have not been apart of. I have a pvm tamer with magery and a discord CU. I'd like to invite you to come to a secluded area with me and try to fight m PVMER with any pvp type character you have. I think you'll change your tune relatively fast when you see what ONE person with a PVM pet can do. Now put into the equation if I have a PVP pet on top of my casting ability on top of my knowledge of the game mechanics. The problem here is TOO MANY people who have NO pvp experience ASSUMING they know what the game is like in pvp scenarios. I welcome you @Kylie Kinslayer to give me a chance to show you in person, how stupid this really is.
Armor ignore is capped at 35 (30 for ranged). thats what sampires / archers use for max pvm damage of 100ish (no slayer) to 200ish (slayer) against non-tamed mobs.
the only hits a warrior type character is getting on pets that could go above 35 would be base hits against a pet with very low resists. but with this patch, not many pets have those low resists anymore. even so you might only see a max of 50ish if you do encounter a low resist pet, it has a slayer and you have the correct damage type weapon, or have chiv. which most pvp templates do not. all in all that crazy pvm sampire archer damage is not possible when its a player pet.
So, the most damage i do vrs a pet with 80 resist (which is the most common now) is about 15 base hit. 30 with a slayer. thats with enemy of one casted. AI only maxes out at 35 for sampire, 30 for archer. thats with a pvm built character that averages 110 to 220 per AI in pvm.
As i said in the other thread, and agreeing with King greg an easy fix would just be remove the caps for player vrs player pet.
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I definitely could get behind that as a big portion of the fix. Allowing ai to reach full potential against a pet would allow them to be killed by a high damage prepared player.
Please record it to video. I want to see how fast she hits the dirt.
Yea thats the popular one it seems. Create a high defense temp, then rely on the incredible pet offense to do the damage.
I agree that the game is more or less tamer online at the moment. The pets are so well rounded in resist and powerful in skill that it's ridiculous.
I also laugh at the comments from ppl who clearly have no pvp experience beside the "all kill" trying to say that their pets are OK in pvp.
I put the time in to complete my first tamer 2 weeks ago. He has been sitting at 90 or so taming for 5+ years. I've been hunting PvM with my pet and I only did three things: vet, greater heal and invis self. The pet did all the work. Anyone who thinks that tamer is not OP in PvM need some more challenges in his/her life. Sampire can take down stuffs quicker but not with MAX luck suit and I also agree that sampire is over power in PvM but at least they are there taking damages, not hiding behind a meat shield with a max luck suit.
Another great thing about tamer is that lag spikes are not an issue since there's no timing require.
I've not pvp since coming back last month but I am not looking forward to fighting anyone with an all 120 skills, 75+ resists, 700-900hp pet that can do all kind of special moves.
In PvP, everyone knows lag is number one important factor because it messes up timing. When seeing the opponent casting (greater heal for example -- just an example since GH has zero chance going off against someone knows what he/she doing), I know which spell (my magic arrow for example) can stop his/her spell in its track. Timing so 2 spells land together and timing to interrupt ppl spells require good connection and skill. None of those are needed with a tamer. Tamer has it easy in both pvp and pvm at the moment. I used to be able to lure the pet away to kill it before pet ball was introduced.
Devs have been against warranty death in PvP. A WOD archer, a 200-stat-run-and-shot Dryad bow archer, a chain-AI archer/dexer , a Death Strike Ninja; They all got fixed. This version of Tamers need some major adjustments.
I also laugh at the comments from ppl who clearly have no pvp experience beside the "all kill" trying to say that their pets are OK in pvp.
I put the time in to complete my first tamer 2 weeks ago. He has been sitting at 90 or so taming for 5+ years. I've been hunting PvM with my pet and I only did three things: vet, greater heal and invis self. The pet did all the work. Anyone who thinks that tamer is not OP in PvM need some more challenges in his/her life. Sampire can take down stuffs quicker but not with MAX luck suit and I also agree that sampire is over power in PvM but at least they are there taking damages, not hiding behind a meat shield with a max luck suit.
Another great thing about tamer is that lag spikes are not an issue since there's no timing require.
I've not pvp since coming back last month but I am not looking forward to fighting anyone with an all 120 skills, 75+ resists, 700-900hp pet that can do all kind of special moves.
In PvP, everyone knows lag is number one important factor because it messes up timing. When seeing the opponent casting (greater heal for example -- just an example since GH has zero chance going off against someone knows what he/she doing), I know which spell (my magic arrow for example) can stop his/her spell in its track. Timing so 2 spells land together and timing to interrupt ppl spells require good connection and skill. None of those are needed with a tamer. Tamer has it easy in both pvp and pvm at the moment. I used to be able to lure the pet away to kill it before pet ball was introduced.
Devs have been against warranty death in PvP. A WOD archer, a 200-stat-run-and-shot Dryad bow archer, a chain-AI archer/dexer , a Death Strike Ninja; They all got fixed. This version of Tamers need some major adjustments.
Some folks in here are acting like they think they're Rosa Parks. The pets are OP, I know it, you know it, the devs know it. You're not being oppressed by 'evil, griefing, cheating, meaniebutts', the pets are just incredibly unbalanced.
PvP needs to be balanced for 1v1 combat(not some trammies wet dream about a pet so fast and OP they're going to hold off 12 PvPers at their solo champ spawn attempt). My warrior or necro(both chars set up for PvP but can melee champs and make a good dent in em) hit these new pets for about 10hp, the pets have 800+ hp, I have 150hp and the pets hit me for 20-50hp, how is that balanced? I cannot practically kill any of these pets in any kind of timeframe that's relevant to PvP(I'd probably run out of resources before it was dead anyway), they're like killing a champ ffs.
PvP needs to be balanced for 1v1 combat(not some trammies wet dream about a pet so fast and OP they're going to hold off 12 PvPers at their solo champ spawn attempt). My warrior or necro(both chars set up for PvP but can melee champs and make a good dent in em) hit these new pets for about 10hp, the pets have 800+ hp, I have 150hp and the pets hit me for 20-50hp, how is that balanced? I cannot practically kill any of these pets in any kind of timeframe that's relevant to PvP(I'd probably run out of resources before it was dead anyway), they're like killing a champ ffs.
Take dismount off pets, make them disposable of in 15 seconds in pvp.
Remove dismount altogether in pvp, bring in 10% perma stat/skill-loss if you instigate an attack against a non pvper and lose.
Deal?
Or is it that you just want everything easy mode as always, dismount gank, 1 button mash pvp on weap users with unlimited mana and chain specials.
"PvP needs to be balanced for 1v1 combat(not some trammies wet dream about a pet so fast and OP they're going to hold off 12 PvPers at their solo champ spawn attempt. "
Says everything about the current pvpers - this is how they play, 12 v 1 usually.
Putting pvp in easymode is what has killed off pvp, the patch before the tamer patch killed pvp, the tamer patch just gave people something else to do.
Stop looking for someone else to blame, and look at yourselves.
Remove dismount altogether in pvp, bring in 10% perma stat/skill-loss if you instigate an attack against a non pvper and lose.
Deal?
Or is it that you just want everything easy mode as always, dismount gank, 1 button mash pvp on weap users with unlimited mana and chain specials.
"PvP needs to be balanced for 1v1 combat(not some trammies wet dream about a pet so fast and OP they're going to hold off 12 PvPers at their solo champ spawn attempt. "
Says everything about the current pvpers - this is how they play, 12 v 1 usually.
Putting pvp in easymode is what has killed off pvp, the patch before the tamer patch killed pvp, the tamer patch just gave people something else to do.
Stop looking for someone else to blame, and look at yourselves.
It's posts like this that makes hope they don't do a thing to change the taming publish. Not a single thing.
Let pets hang around in tram. I like publish from a PVM stand point but don't see the need to see pets on the battlefield and i'm all for seeing diverse templates but there is a lot of stupid stuff right now in pvp to me.
4/6 chiv
Taming (pets OP)
Not viable for pure warrior
Let's also just say it like it is - people are using stuff. Casting poisoning off screen on someone to only have them instantly cure it or instant apple if you curse off screen makes no sense to me.
I ping like 30 to ATL and I have no hope in hell of catching up to some people, or they catch up to me easily.
I'll be the first to say I don't care if people use things to help them train skills but want to draw the line at pvp.
You can be a trammy and still hold off a champ spawn against PVPers. Find a guild, learn how to field choke points and learn the strategy. You guys REALLY want to be able to protect yourself against 12 PVPers with your pets? That's actually something you think is reasonable?
The whole point of fel is that there is risk of a gank. You guys seem to take is so personal. This is the game. An online game. We don't want to take away content that requires a group to complete. As an old trammy, I found it to be exhilarating to be a trammy and holding off a champ spawn against a bunch of reds. Win or lose. That's what fel is for. The risk, the excitement. You guys just want to have a pet fend them off for you? Really????
The whole point of fel is that there is risk of a gank. You guys seem to take is so personal. This is the game. An online game. We don't want to take away content that requires a group to complete. As an old trammy, I found it to be exhilarating to be a trammy and holding off a champ spawn against a bunch of reds. Win or lose. That's what fel is for. The risk, the excitement. You guys just want to have a pet fend them off for you? Really????
True.
Whilst the initial point itself is fairly logical - the additional point is that a group of players who cry over everything and want everything to be in easy mode whilst inflicting a negative no-risk playstyle upon the game who at the same time have a track record of completely breaking the game with their demands have kicked off again, this time against another large player-base who aren't too impressed with aforementioned parties track record.
It isn't like this anymore.
PvP has become an elite sport only.
There is plenty of risk v reward for pvmers in fel, but none for pvpers.
It's easy not to take it personally when you are the one instigating the negative playstyle and doing the ganking.
What do the pvpers stand to lose?
What do the pvpers stand to win, if they truly win VvV?
(The only current real PvP scenario).
Everyone thinks it's ok to go round mugging defenceless players, that's not sport, it's gutter level.
(And the reason I've defended the tamers here, is it seems to be the same old pvpers, who just want easymode ganking mode restored - I've got no real sympathy for that, they weren't around when PvP needed real thought or balancing).
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This is just wrong.
But... the only people saying stuff like that are the pvmers. The pvpers have said repeatedly they don't want to alter pets for pvm, even if they are OP.
What are you going on about? Pvp isn't in easy mode now. It was pretty balanced right before this patch. If you believe PVP is in easy mode, I'll welcome you just like I welcomed every other player to step up into pvp with me and see what type of easy mode is taking place currently. It seems you're speaking on a subject you have no clue of. I beg you, take my offer and see how "easy" pvp is currently. I'm willing to bet it's not what you think it is or nearly as easy.
I'll video this for everyone to see "easy mode" in action.
@MalagAste , what you and other defenders of taming are failing to realise is this. Do you think the PvPers who come to kill you at a champ are staying on their own templates? They will still speedhack and hunt you down and dismount you and use a Cu Sidhe on you, and we'll see how long you last..
This is not a case of PvPers whining that non PvPers are now able to compete, the speeders will use the pets too.
That whole argument is flawed.
Everyone has the same options when it comes to spawns... it just so happens people with little or no experience in pvp have little or no chance of successfully taking or defending a spawn & the rewards. So, Who's fault is that?
...You must be new to UO (or pvp gaming in general), because this is, was and always will be a major aspect of pvp, and it was far far...far worse in the "good ole days". Right now most pvp is between people of similar skill levels, prepared to fight other people.
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I don't get how anyone is trying to make an argument that the op pets are a nice handicap to have for underskilled/experienced players in PvP.
Like...you guys realize the skilled and experienced pvpers are going g to abuse those same pets and just kill you anyways right? It'd be the same if you were on a necro mage doing a spawn and a PvP necro mage came and smited you.
What's even funnier is, in general the pvper are the ones with a huge amount of game mechanics knowledge. I bet I know more about the inside and outside of the new pet system than most of the pvmers clamoring don't touch my pets, and build them to the proper specs for damage output, so in the end the pvpers pet will probably be better than the pet you are defending anyways.
Just a dumb argument.
Like...you guys realize the skilled and experienced pvpers are going g to abuse those same pets and just kill you anyways right? It'd be the same if you were on a necro mage doing a spawn and a PvP necro mage came and smited you.
What's even funnier is, in general the pvper are the ones with a huge amount of game mechanics knowledge. I bet I know more about the inside and outside of the new pet system than most of the pvmers clamoring don't touch my pets, and build them to the proper specs for damage output, so in the end the pvpers pet will probably be better than the pet you are defending anyways.
Just a dumb argument.
I think one of my guild beat you in the 1v1 mage tourney on Europa recently.
I'm not a dualist, I'm a field fighter.
I think the current pvp set-up is the most ridiculous ever.
I think yours, and the current crop of pvpers demands for pvp, are just pathetic usually, just going from bad to worse.
I think you were behind some of it, which I'm really pissed off about.
Anyway, I must stop, I'm taking this thread too far off topic.
Tamers have got a good patch, be happy for them, don't try and nerf them, it takes nothing for a pvper to target the tamer itself and ignore the pet.
Lets look at this the other way. How about we make all players have 80 in three resists and give them double the HP? Sounds ridiculous doesn't it. LOLOL. We can turn PvP into farming instead of fun fights. Mind you pets can have 4-5 times their original HP plus twice the skills and higher stats. To the guy who thinks pets are different, you can make any pet in the game do the same thing, just cause your choosing to have too many pets doesn't mean your right. I know how everything works as I pvm and pvp in UO and I am very good at both. All of it is too boring and non challenging, how is a tamer not more boring then a sampire, all kill-hit consume, go afk. Everyone wants the easy button game these days, its sad and patethic. Its the same for a majority of so called good pvpers who run the third party programs, they want easy button too. Its a joke, a really sad joke.
yea while that pet is casting on you and laying in 40 damage melee hits and dismount/poison/mortaling you, it takes nothing to ignore it. just push it off to the side and fight the tamer... right. Makes sense...
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