Some thoughts about ruleset

[FrejaSP]

I have been thinking how to move from the Tram/Fel split to a ruleset that will try to join the community again without remove the safeness from Tram minded players.

Lets say we let all players choose ruleset for their char. They can switch once a week. It take a week to switch from Fel ruleset to Tram ruleset but only 24 hours to switch from Tram to Fel ruleset.
Reds and VvV chars can't switch to Tram before they are out off VvV and Blue again.

Trammel Chars = Safe without risk for PvP on all facets but Felucca
or
Felucca Chars = Risk for PvP like in Felucca but can't go to Trammel if Red

Sounds easy, but is not as we risk Felucca chars are using Trammel chars to carry loot for them.

Facets:
Felussa will stay 100% Felucca for all who go there, also Tram chars.
Trammel will stay 100% Trammel for all who go there, Reds can't go there, VvV will be inactive.

All other facets will be Neutral and it is the chars ruleset that matter.

If the char choose Tram, he will be 100% safe in Neutral facets but can't trade with Fel chars and can't loot anyone, Can't attack anyone, can't be attacked, can't heal Fel chars if they are flaged for PvP or res them if they died in PvP. Can't rez/heal a VvV char or a Red or Grey.

If the char choose Fel, He will have same risk as in Fel vs other Fel chars. He can't trade with Tram chars, he can't be looted of a tram char, Fel chars will go grey trying to loot blue Fel chars and orange trying to loot a VvV char. He can't loot a tram char. He can heal and res everyone no matter of color but ressing/healing a grey/red will make him grey and ressing, healing or attacking an VvV fel char will make him orange.

Trading in Neutral facets: Fel and Tram chars are only allowed trading in towns, houses and other safe places. If a player drop something on ground outside Safe zone, town or house, it will have a delay of 10 sec before an char of other ruleset can pick it up.

Looting in Neutral facets: Here we need to changes the rules a little. If the dead player is same ruleset as the looter it works as for that ruleset. If they are of different ruleset, they should not be able to loot each others.

Party in Neutral facets: Tram and Fel char can be in same party in Neutral facets but only the party chat will work, between the 2 ruleset.

Guilds/alliance: Tram and Fel players can be in same guilds but in Neutral facets, only guild tag and guild/alliance chat will work, Neutral facet looting, healing, attacking and trading rules will overrule guild rules.

Fel bonus: A Fel char will get the fel bonus (2 x resource drop and 1000+ luck, not sure if there is more), when on Neutral facets, a Tram char will not get fel bonus as he have less risk and always can bring his loot home safe.

It's only some thoughts, I know it will need a lot of works. Please be nice and friendly to each others in the thread.

Edited to make it more clear:
The Fel facet stay as it is no matter of the chars choose of ruleset. A Tram char will still be in risk for PvP in Felucca and will get the Fel bonus in Felucca.
In the neutral facets, only the Fel chars will get the fel bonus as they are only one in risk.
In the Trammel facet, noone will get the Fel bonus and all will be safe as Trammel stay as it is.

 

[Winker]

I personally dont want a merge of the lands. I enjoy killing people who intentionally come to a spawn point to annoy you. I enjoy the fact i can solo a champ spawn without he worry of tramies showing up and taking over. Then what would happen with my castle which has been my home for the last 12 years. There is one in the exact same spot in tram. I would leave if fel was taken out of the game.

 

[Merus]

Ruleset for all facets:

Overland areas = Consentual pvp only (VvV, guild war, etc). Other trammel rules apply (no stealing from blue players, guards, etc).

Dungeons & T2A = felucca rules (dungeons are inherently dangerous and should only be ventured into by the prepared). Only one version of these would exist : trammel side duplicates would be removed.

 

[Lorddog]

what about unattackable grievers that will block you in?

 

[FrejaSP]

I personally dont want a merge of the lands. I enjoy killing people who intentionally come to a spawn point to annoy you. I enjoy the fact i can solo a champ spawn without he worry of tramies showing up and taking over. Then what would happen with my castle which has been my home for the last 12 years. There is one in the exact same spot in tram. I would leave if fel was taken out of the game.

Trammel will stay Trammel and Fel will stay Felucca, nothing changes to this 2 facets. The others will get the neutral ruleset so VvV can fight there, reds can go there, attack chars who choose Fel ruleset for their char. Try read it all again

 

[FrejaSP]

what about unattackable grievers that will block you in?

Yes that's what make it complicated
Guess we will need the no blocking rules to work for Trammel chars and between Tram and Fel chars or just make no blocking between players and their pets but let monsters and non pets animals and npc's block as in Fel.

With other words, if you can attack it, it can block you, if you can't attack it, it won't block you.

 

[Giggles]

Forgive me... but I am really having a hard time understanding what you are trying to propose here. How does this change anything or give either side any benefit? Are you referring to siege only? or Prodo shards? How is this any different than just say.. staying in tram on my crafters, and going to fel on my mains? I'm not trying to be rude at all, just legitimately confused. This sounds like a whole lot of undue complication to a system that imo works fine.

I am more inclined to propose fel as being pure VvV ruleset. In fel theres no blue red or otherwise, everyone is orange upon entering until they leave. UO is one of the few games that still "punishes" pvpers to begin with.

 

[cazador]

I just wish they didn't "mirror" the facets. What a stupid idea that was. But wait they added resource bonus! Never mind solved!! Tram should of been added and it was good it was. It kept the care bear, new rainbow unicorn riders in the game. Btw @Giggles "Unicorn Puppies" would look divine on that mount not saying you're a trammy it would just look ironic


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[Vet]

I just wish they didn't "mirror" the facets. What a stupid idea that was. But wait they added resource bonus! Never mind solved!! Tram should of been added and it was good it was. It kept the care bear, new rainbow unicorn riders in the game. Btw @Giggles "Unicorn Puppies" would look divine on that mount not saying you're a trammy it would just look ironic


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And to that I would say it actually kept the turds OUT of tramms and MY game. Suppose that makes all of us happy......well....except for ya'll who gots no one to play with. Solo a champ spawn.....in a multi player game.....thats barren because of a playstyle that called it on themselves......priceless! But Id like to give a shout out to Freja.....shes been at suggesting this action for MANY years, and her and I have had it out more than once. So....Props Girl....seriously.............and keep on suggesting......even tho the pk side of things are the first ones to say no to having "trammy care bears" to pk. Ok, now where did I park my glow in the dark rainbow uni at???

 

[Arcus]

[QUOTE="Vet, post: 2791466, member: 191918"...shes been at suggesting this action for MANY years, and her and I have had it out more than once. [/QUOTE]

"Joined: Dec 8, 2016"

Wat?

 

[Spartan]

[QUOTE="Vet, post: 2791466, member: 191918"...shes been at suggesting this action for MANY years, and her and I have had it out more than once.

"Joined: Dec 8, 2016"

Wat?[/QUOTE]
There was a need to reregister here some years back. Freja has been around for as long as I can recall ... and that's 1999 and on various screenies. Just because they have a recent join date here does not mean they haven't been around.

I can well recall pre-Tram arguments in SnR with Marikus, Solarm and others on one side, (the late) Leandra, myself and others on the opposite one.

I second Vet ... @FrejaSP ... you keep suggesting. I like this one a lot!

 

[Winker]

And to that I would say it actually kept the turds OUT of tramms and MY game. Suppose that makes all of us happy......well....except for ya'll who gots no one to play with. Solo a champ spawn.....in a multi player game.....thats barren because of a playstyle that called it on themselves......priceless! But Id like to give a shout out to Freja.....shes been at suggesting this action for MANY years, and her and I have had it out more than once. So....Props Girl....seriously.............and keep on suggesting......even tho the pk side of things are the first ones to say no to having "trammy care bears" to pk. Ok, now where did I park my glow in the dark rainbow uni at???

I choose to solo champs simply for the challenge of soloing it. I have lots of people to play with if i so choose to. We cold kill 3 champs in the time it take me to solo one, but its not about time, its about a challenge that is achievable on your own.

 

[Grazz't1970]

Well I hate to say it but we were due for a poorly thought out crackpots shard theory anyway. I'm just amazed people actually respond and try to further the thread

 

[FrejaSP]

Forgive me... but I am really having a hard time understanding what you are trying to propose here.

A changes to the ruleset, that will give players a chance to play together without be forced to PvP if they don't want or be forced to only play one facet if they want to PvP and do PvM and other stuff on same char, just like in old days and on Siege.

How does this change anything or give either side any benefit? Are you referring to siege only? or Prodo shards?

It may not give the Trammel players much benefit if they still want to play without seeing PvP going on, but I do believe more of them will end up try out PvP if they can see PvP going on at the facets they use to play on without getting attacked and learn to know the PvP players in a different way, than only listen to them in chat.
The red and VvV players will get more facets to play and PvP on. They can still login a Trammel char if they want to do PvM without risk.
Blue players can choose if they will be 100% safe or get the Fel bonus together with the risk.
I believe it will give a good basis for RP too.

How is this any different than just say.. staying in tram on my crafters, and going to fel on my mains? I'm not trying to be rude at all, just legitimately confused. This sounds like a whole lot of undue complication to a system that imo works fine.

I know you are not trying to be rude. I'm making a middle ground where you can go on your crafter and be safe or go on your main and PvP. Sure there can still be trouble with trash talking Tram chars, you can't attack, but that already the case now with the Trammel ruleset on all but one facet, so not much diff here.

I am more inclined to propose fel as being pure VvV ruleset. In fel theres no blue red or otherwise, everyone is orange upon entering until they leave. UO is one of the few games that still "punishes" pvpers to begin with.

I have thought about that but I like the way VvV works. Murderer counts are not a problem now with Royal forged pardons and blue going orange from attacking VvV is a good thing. Reds still have advantage from being red as they can use field spells vs blue.

As Vet said, this idea had been in my mind for years, from before we got VvV. Sure I would like it to work on all facet also Trammel and Felucca but I also know, some want to keep Trammel free of PvP and reds and some want to keep Felucca free of any trammel ruleset.

I'm mainly trying to add a PvP switch to the game to replace the Tram/Fel split.

 

[Spartan]

@Giggles - let me try a few things on from a Tram ruleset residents perspective. I have the PvP ability of a dead gnat and thus just cannot survive long in that type of situation. I've tried ... in the original game lands, on FS that are no longer running and so on. Sooo, this is what I see in Freja's idea.

1. Ruleset switch per character - either Fel or Tram rules. That character is under those rules unless/until they change it. Freja outlined the times it would take for changes to become effective.
2. Reds cannot go into Tram ... BUT ... if I read her idea correctly, they could go into Malas, Ilshenar, Tok Islands, SA, Eodon as these are the neutral areas.
3. Reds in neutral areas CAN fight as if in Fel BUT cannot attack Tram persons. Likewise Tram persons cannot interfere with Fel ruleset characters having a brawl/fight/tussle or whatever.
4. Tram ruleset characters go to Fel but they do NOT receive the resource bonus as they have locked to Tram rules. They need to change to Fel ruleset in order to garner the extra goodies. I will assume that Fel character could get the resource boost in neutral areas.
   
5. If a red has a Fel house but would like to place a new one in say .... Malas ... they can if there is space for what they want (except castle/keep sizes). That means I might log into my Malas home someday and have a red neighbor.
6. Any city in neutral areas can be trade centers between reds, blues, orange, gray or whatever the color of the day is. Home or inns in these facets also fall into free trade areas.

I think these are the main things I see in the idea. My one thing about it is how to tell what ruleset the character is under. Would it be spelled out over their head like names are already? It's possible ... "Chap Stick (Fel)" ... ???

 

[Lord Frodo]

What kind of a programing nightmare are we talking. Double resources for FEL in the neutral land masses, no. So now instead of FEL only having double resources now we would have it everywhere but Tram, SCRIPTERS would LOVE this, more places to hide.
FEL spawns in Ilsh so what Tram players could not join in to fight the spawn.
TOTAL PROGRAMING NIGHTMARE.
NO TY our DEVs have better things to do with their limited staff.
IMHO I do not see how any of this would fix the FEL/TRAM split.

 

[Spartan]

What kind of a programing nightmare are we talking. Double resources for FEL in the neutral land masses, no. So now instead of FEL only having double resources now we would have it everywhere but Tram, SCRIPTERS would LOVE this, more places to hide.
FEL spawns in Ilsh so what Tram players could not join in to fight the spawn.
TOTAL PROGRAMING NIGHTMARE.
NO TY our DEVs have better things to do with their limited staff.
IMHO I do not see how any of this would fix the FEL/TRAM split.

Read again, please. IF - and only IF - your character is set to Fel rules can it get Fel level resources. I, as a Tram set player, could NOT unless I changed my actual switch to Fel. @FrejaSP - is this as you envisioned?

Who said ANYTHING about spawns changing at all? The players tackling them are what determines looting rules in case of deaths, etc.

As for Fel/Tram split ... unfortunately that won't be reversed. This method has a chance of at least allowing all lands to be available to all charcters - except red. Reds are not allowed in Trammel itself but allowed elsewhere.

It's been beaten to death here, but go back to why the split in the first place. Even though that main situation has pretty much disappeared, the split has happened. I personally think that the Devs at the time had no clue as to how to implement a character switch that would allow something like has been suggested. I hold out hope for this team if they want to tackle it. And I was against splitting, even though I am not PvP-centric in playstyle. I actually was for something like this at the time.

 

[Nexus]

I'd rather they take the lowest population Prodo Server from each region (excepting Siege and Mugen) and make it Fel Ruleset everywhere and turn off PvP on all other servers. Give every character a transfer token and say "Have at thee". No other rule changes, then they can make balancing changes for PvP that only go into those few servers and let the rest of the folks who don't PvP not have to deal with the side effects in PvE.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Read again, please. IF - and only IF - your character is set to Fel rules can it get Fel level resources. I, as a Tram set player, could NOT unless I changed my actual switch to Fel.

Who said ANYTHING about spawns changing at all? The players tackling them are what determines looting rules in case of deaths, etc.

As for Fel/Tram split ... unfortunately that won't be reversed. This method has a chance of at least allowing all lands to be available to all charcters - except red. Reds are not allowed in Trammel itself but allowed elsewhere.

My bad I guess people would get the idea that I was talking about chars that did the FEL switch. But you switched it to FEL so the Spawn must be a FEL type Spawn. If alls you are proposing is just the double resources than why waiste the DEVs time. The Fellies will want everything FEL or nothing at all. Sorry REDs should not be allowed into the Netural Lands.
IMHO I see zero benefit in this at all, you have 7 chars per account so you are free to go anywhere you want, UO did not require you to go RED you did that yourself.

 

[Lord Frodo]

I'd rather they take the lowest population Prodo Server from each region (excepting Siege and Mugen) and make it Fel Ruleset everywhere and turn off PvP on all other servers. Give every character a transfer token and say "Have at thee". No other rule changes, then they can make balancing changes for PvP that only go into those few servers and let the rest of the folks who don't PvP not have to deal with the side effects in PvE.

So people with 7 chars on every shard does what, lose their Chars, NO TY. What do you do with the houses on that shard, tell the owners tuff dodo and how many accounts do you think you will lose? No more PvP **** talk in Atl Gen Chat oh no what will we ever do.

 

[Gorath]

Time to reduce the number of shards imo. Just make North American / Asian etc etc.

Treat it like a shard transfer, crate everyone's stuff, give 6 months and then open up housing, if people miss out on placing in the plots then open up green acres for them, tons of land there.

 

[Nexus]

So people with 7 chars on every shard does what, lose their Chars, NO TY. What do you do with the houses on that shard, tell the owners tuff dodo and how many accounts do you think you will lose? No more PvP **** talk in Atl Gen Chat oh no what will we ever do.

Um that's why give character a transfer token... they can shift to another server in their region or not...

 

[Lord Frodo]

Time to reduce the number of shards imo. Just make North American / Asian etc etc.

Treat it like a shard transfer, crate everyone's stuff, give 6 months and then open up housing, if people miss out on placing in the plots then open up green acres for them, tons of land there.

LMAO LAGG would close all west coast players, UO loses US players by the droves. UO loses all European players due to a BRAIN FART when they closed all their servers due to a request by a player.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Um that's why give character a transfer token... they can shift to another server in their region or not...

If they have open spots on those servers which most players do not and the house is gone but I guess that is ok too.

 

[Gorath]

LMAO LAGG would close all west coast players, UO loses US players by the droves. UO loses all European players due to a BRAIN FART when they closed all their servers due to a request by a player.

How is it that other MMOs have North American, Euro servers etc? I'm not exactly proposing a revolutionary idea here.

 

[Lord Frodo]

How is it that other MMOs have North American, Euro servers etc? I'm not exactly proposing a revolutionary idea here.

And how many subs do you think you will lose? The Lagg to the east coast would be ok to do minor fighting but any major spawns or PvP is gone but I guess as long as you have a packed Atl you are fine with that. You closed the EURO server down or didn't you read your own post, guess not.

 

[Gorath]

And how many subs do you think you will lose? The Lagg to the east coast would be ok to do minor fighting but any major spawns or PvP is gone but I guess as long as you have a packed Atl you are fine with that. You closed the EURO server down or didn't you read your own post, guess not.

ETC = implies a Euro server exists. Unless you can't read or selectively chose to ignore that. Why would anyone choose to just make a North America and Asian server and THAT'S IT? Christ it's like people are looking for trouble these days.

 

[Lord Frodo]

ETC = implies a Euro server exists. Unless you can't read or selectively chose to ignore that. Why would anyone choose to just make a North America and Asian server and THAT'S IT? Christ it's like people are looking for trouble these days.

 

[Basara]

Here would be my suggestions:

1. Crank up Tram overland spawn (with new spawn types) so that Trammel would be as dangerous outside town from creatures, bandits, etc. as it was prior to the split (adjusted for the game additions of the last 15+ years).
2. Leave Fel overland spawn as is, so that nature is safer, but you have to worry about the human element.
3. 24-hour toggle for PvP.
4. Double resources in Fel requires being toggled for PvP.
5. All facets open to reds, but PvP limited to between toggled people and guilds at war outside Fel. Reds can't enter Trammel and Ter Mur guard zones, but can enter Malas and Tokuno ones.
6. Fel Champ spawn areas (including all of Fel T2A) work as current rule system, and ignore the PVP/PVM toggle.
7. Because of the effect shard transfers have had on the PS market (most get transferred to Atlantic), something needs to offset this. Have non-Fel champs give skulls, and open up Trammel Khaldun. Instead of a Harrower, using 6 skulls in Trammel Khaldun just starts a Tram ruleset spawn (not a Harrower) that gives the base number of Powerscrolls (no Justice bonus) that are shard bound (meaning that about 10 times the normal effort from Fel would have to be put into getting one set of PS drops, making the cross-shardable Fel scrolls still preferred, but now with a much slower alternative). Or, the skulls can be taken to Fel to start a regular Harrower as normal.

 

[Gorath]

Thanks for coming out.

Now if anyone has something to contribute to the idea, that would be great.

I'd love to see a populated Ultima Online again. Right now Atlantic is the closest thing, it was so cool being able to head to Skara and see a group of people.

We could build up the RP community again. The pvp scene would be amazing and very competitive. No more people soloing whole areas etc, there will actually be a population of people wanting to do content.

That is my mind set on this.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Thanks for coming out.

Now if anyone has something to contribute to the idea, that would be great.

I'd love to see a populated Ultima Online again. Right now Atlantic is the closest thing, it was so cool being able to head to Skara and see a group of people.

We could build up the RP community again. The pvp scene would be amazing and very competitive. No more people soloing whole areas etc, there will actually be a population of people wanting to do content.

That is my mind set on this.

And with you suggestion of shutting down all the US shards but one is just shear genius, end sarcasm. Hope you like [playing UO for 6 months at most and you do realize this saves UO zero money by going to your idea but it would save EA all of UOs operating cost.

 

[Gorath]

And with you suggestion of shutting down all the US shards but one is just shear genius, end sarcasm. Hope you like [playing UO for 6 months at most and you do realize this saves UO zero money by going to your idea but it would save EA all of UOs operating cost.

So basically your main concern with this is lag?

 

[Spock's Beard]

You can propose whatever torturous crackpot ruleset you want, you're never going to make Trammies want to PVP. So why bother?

 

[Lord Frodo]

So basically your main concern with this is lag?

Do you have any idea what you are proposing all for the sake of you wan a full Atl Server.
You are shutting down 9, incase you don't understand, NINE US shards so everybody is going to lose 63 chars and all those shards are going to lose all their houses and most everybody will lose a lot of items because they will not be able to get a house big enough to hold all their stuff. EA/BS is in the business of making money and you really think that all those people are just going to pack up all their stuff and move over to this 1 US Shard. Are you nuts, seriously. Do you really think you will retain even %10 of the players that you just closed all their shards on. I play 4 shards and none of them are Atl so now you want me to just throw away 21 chars per account along with 35 chars that collect gifts and that is just 1 account. Are you going to give me 3 Castles on the NEW and IMPROVED Atl shard. How could you even try to convince EA/BS that this is a SOUND business move and will not cost UO any subs, seriously THINK.

 

[Gorath]

Do you have any idea what you are proposing all for the sake of you wan a full Atl Server.
You are shutting down 9, incase you don't understand, NINE US shards so everybody is going to lose 63 chars and all those shards are going to lose all their houses and most everybody will lose a lot of items because they will not be able to get a house big enough to hold all their stuff. EA/BS is in the business of making money and you really think that all those people are just going to pack up all their stuff and move over to this 1 US Shard. Are you nuts, seriously. Do you really think you will retain even %10 of the players that you just closed all their shards on. I play 4 shards and none of them are Atl so now you want me to just throw away 21 chars per account along with 35 chars that collect gifts and that is just 1 account. Are you going to give me 3 Castles on the NEW and IMPROVED Atl shard. How could you even try to convince EA/BS that this is a SOUND business move and will not cost UO any subs, seriously THINK.

Green acres = housing solution?

Characters might be a concern but I imagine you have a ton of duplicate characters no?

 

[Grazz't1970]

Again this is a crackpot proposal. As it currently sits what is stopping anyone from moving to a more populous shard? Answer - nothing...Let it go folks. Let it go.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Green acres = housing solution?

Characters might be a concern but I imagine you have a ton of duplicate characters no?

LMAO NO to both. Do you have any clue what a BUSINESS PROPOSAL is, yours would be thrown in the nearest trash can and you would be asked to leave the board room.

 

[Spiritless]

Honestly at this point these discussions become more of a post-mortem analysis as opposed to functional suggestions because none of them would truly work in reality without making considerable sacrifices. At this point it seems safe to say, at least from my POV:

- Creating a mirror of Britannia with different rulesets (Tram/Fel) was a poor solution in response to wanting specific consensual and non-consensual PvP areas. All that was perhaps needed was a PvP toggle switch or designating specific areas as non-con PvP zones and maybe the opening of a few "hardcore" servers similar to Siege where non-con PvP was enabled everywhere without the implementation of an option to opt out of it.

- Having "North America", "Europe" and "Asia" servers is probably preferable to the myriad of low-activity shards that presently exist and probably how the game would start out today if it were new on the market. This would increase player interaction and make the game feel more alive and active.

The problem is, neither of these are easy to fix because of the player housing issue. You can't just put people's stuff in a crate and tell them their shard is closing and to move your stuff ASAP and tough luck if you miss out on placing a house on the new server. While in theory the solution would be perfect in reducing the number of shards, in reality all you're going to do is annoy a lot of people who would end up closing their accounts as half the reason they're probably keeping them open to begin with is the nostalgia of having their houses still up, some of which have been there for over a decade and perhaps near two.

Unfortunately there's just no clean way to deal with the housing issue which won't result in annoying people. That's why all the shards have been left alone as well as it being made easier to transfer between shards so that people who do want to play on higher population servers have a relatively easy time moving to them. Honestly that's all that really can be done at this point, short of perhaps literally providing moongates to each shard in the worlds themselves and opening up completely free travel that way. That would come with technical complications as well as potentially reduce revenue for shard transfers, however.

I personally think more shared landmasses could be an option to promote activity. Illshenar is one example with no player-housing complications. It would be viable to have only 3 Illshenar instances (NA/EU/Asia) with people joining the instance automatically when zoning in which corresponds to the region of their actual shard. This could also work for T2A and dungeons too and open up the possibility of having specific cross-shard PvP arenas or battlegrounds which could bring PvP players together regardless of what shard they're on to fight. Shared Lost Lands + dungeons would naturally promote this too as a lot of PvP happens around champion spawn areas.

This proposed shared instance system is probably the closest you can get to merges without having to deal with the housing problem and annoying people regarding that. It would be quite a huge change technically for the infrastructure of the game though and I'd be absolutely astonished beyond words if the present development team could pull anything close to this off successfully. Sadly I don't believe they have the resources or expertise to do so. At this point it's obvious the game has been effectively in maintenance mode for some time and they'd be perfectly happy to create a few more colored unicorns to sell for cash rather than changing the game too much and, frankly, I can't say I blame them. It probably wouldn't be worth it at this stage in the game's life, truthfully speaking.

 

[Lord Frodo]

@Spiritless nice read and the only thing I would change is the US has 2 each of the joint lands due to time difference and the lag across the US.

 

[Winker]

You can propose whatever torturous crackpot ruleset you want, you're never going to make Trammies want to PVP. So why bother?

^^ this. Those people who dont PvP dont for a reason, they dont want to PvP. Over the past 19 years i have learned that true die hard tramies will not PvP even if they are dragged to fel kicking and screaming. Hell most of them even hate talking about it here in strastics never mind participating.

And to add to this topic further, we cant even get the devs to produce a pre AOS shard and thats been asked for many times over the last 12+ years. So you guys dream on with your suggestions, but no one who can make this happen is listening.

 

[FrejaSP]

Tram ruleset characters go to Fel but they do NOT receive the resource bonus as they have locked to Tram rules. They need to change to Fel ruleset in order to garner the extra goodies. I will assume that Fel character could get the resource boost in neutral areas.

Spartan you got me almost right, except the Fel facet stay as it is no matter of the chars choose of ruleset. A Tram char will still be in risk for PvP in Felucca and will get the Fel bonus in Felucca.
In the neutral facets, only the Fel chars will get the fel bonus as they are only one in risk.
In the Trammel facet, noone will get the Fel bonus and all will be safe as Trammel stay as it is.

 

[FrejaSP]

I'd rather they take the lowest population Prodo Server from each region (excepting Siege and Mugen) and make it Fel Ruleset everywhere and turn off PvP on all other servers. Give every character a transfer token and say "Have at thee". No other rule changes, then they can make balancing changes for PvP that only go into those few servers and let the rest of the folks who don't PvP not have to deal with the side effects in PvE.

I would like to do that too but so many people would quit when you force them to pack their house, leave their community and move. And some do have both tram and fel chars, they do not want to play on 2 servers.
With my idea, no one need to move, no one need to changes their play style. If they like being 100% safe for PvP, they can still be that except in Felucca, nothing changes except they may see some PvP going on at the neutral facets.
They may be surprice to see, reds and PvP players are not the demons they thought they was. Players living in the neutral facets may get more actions around their houses but if they choose Tram switch, they will still be safe.
I would like this switch to work on all facet, but that is to early, people is not ready for that.
It's sure much easier to make pure Trammel and pure Felucca shards but it will make people quit and ruin communities. This take more coding, that's true but it will make the game better for most. A few with old hate from old days will stay in Trammel only and a few will stay in Fel only but most will enjoy the new ways of interact and their new neighbors

Here would be my suggestions:

1. Crank up Tram overland spawn (with new spawn types) so that Trammel would be as dangerous outside town from creatures, bandits, etc. as it was prior to the split (adjusted for the game additions of the last 15+ years).
2. Leave Fel overland spawn as is, so that nature is safer, but you have to worry about the human element.
3. 24-hour toggle for PvP.
4. Double resources in Fel requires being toggled for PvP.
5. All facets open to reds, but PvP limited to between toggled people and guilds at war outside Fel. Reds can't enter Trammel and Ter Mur guard zones, but can enter Malas and Tokuno ones.
6. Fel Champ spawn areas (including all of Fel T2A) work as current rule system, and ignore the PVP/PVM toggle.
7. Because of the effect shard transfers have had on the PS market (most get transferred to Atlantic), something needs to offset this. Have non-Fel champs give skulls, and open up Trammel Khaldun. Instead of a Harrower, using 6 skulls in Trammel Khaldun just starts a Tram ruleset spawn (not a Harrower) that gives the base number of Powerscrolls (no Justice bonus) that are shard bound (meaning that about 10 times the normal effort from Fel would have to be put into getting one set of PS drops, making the cross-shardable Fel scrolls still preferred, but now with a much slower alternative). Or, the skulls can be taken to Fel to start a regular Harrower as normal.

I like this ideas too, but the hard part is still to make the PvP switch work so it can't be abused of blue chars, that can't be attacked, like a blue char working as a PvP'ers pack animal

You can propose whatever torturous crackpot ruleset you want, you're never going to make Trammies want to PVP. So why bother?

I'm not trying that, but there are some, who are not hard core PvP'ers and not trammies. They like the risk, they like to have some risk, we do have a lot on Siege, who do not PvP at all, but they still like the risk. Some may skip the risk and the double resources but still like to see more actions and maybe run shops and crafting for the PvP community.
In old days, I saw a lot start as playing, they hated and feared PK's, they then got more skilled and joined the anti PK's to try to make hunting spots safe. Some of them took the next step and went red as they found friends between the reds and liked the RP part of being red.

Lets take a guild as Shadowclan Orc on Cats, the split ruined their games and they moved to Siege, then AoS ruined the game once more for them. They was hanging out in Yes Orc fort, if someone showed up there, they would surrund them, yell for tributes = gold, gems, cider. If people was fast to drop something on ground, they was told to to move away from the areal. If people refused to pay, they was attacked and looted very little if they died, maybe gold, gems, cider, orc armor.
People was traveling to the orc fort to interact with them and enjoyed them. I can see the orc fort in Males being used for this as it will be a good way for non PvP'ers to try out PvP. The ones to scared to try, could still go with their tram switch on and drop some gold to get a little of the RP. Maybe they some day would want to choose the fight and turn the Fel switch on.

^^ this. Those people who dont PvP dont for a reason, they dont want to PvP. Over the past 19 years i have learned that true die hard tramies will not PvP even if they are dragged to fel kicking and screaming. Hell most of them even hate talking about it here in strastics never mind participating.

This die hard trammies are few but very vocal, they tell everyone about the demons in Fel and how they in old days could not leave town. With making a middle ground, a neutral one, the young can learn for them self and they stop listing to this few ones telling old horror stories.

 

[MalagAste]

I have never liked the idea of having PvP everywhere...

Anyone that's ever tried to attend an EM Event with a bunch of Juveniles beatting one another and casting on each other and running about like a bunch of nutters will tell you it's disruptive. Imagine trying to attend an event with all that going on when it's not just one guild who can't control the nutters but 30 individuals all in PvP open when one idiot decides to do some area of effect spell and cause all sorts of crying, pissing and moaning...

Could you imagine boss pops up and there are 30+ EV's and RC's about and someone does an area effect thing and BAM suddenly half the people there are your enemy... NOT a good idea... no not at all.

I've been at Events where there were people who were "orange" to me... It's really not good... I'm looking at "orange" also being what I'm in Enemy of One too and now I'm suddenly targeting one of the Pirates who opted to show up on an Orange... Oppps... Or They get in close and one of my Alliance mates is doing Holy Light... Oppps again...

Imagine when we had factions if a bunch of other faction people were there... Not a good plan at all... could you imagine... Mages would not be able to cast EV's or RC's without them targetting other PvPers... Would be a Cluster... just saying. You think it might be "fun" but you on Siege should all know you can't patrol Fel proper... and be in all places everywhere looking for the 2 or 3 people that may or may not be doing something there... Imagine trying to find the few people on doing something when you got all of Fel, Tram, Ilsh, Malas, Tokuno, Ter Mur, The Abyss, etc... to patrol... You'll Never find folk wanting to PvP.

 

[Winker]

This die hard trammies are few but very vocal, they tell everyone about the demons in Fel and how they in old days could not leave town. With making a middle ground, a neutral one, the young can learn for them self and they stop listing to this few ones telling old horror stories.

Nothing has changed from the good old days where you could not get passed the X roads outside Brit. You may now be able to recal into places now and there is no need to run the gantlet outside Brit, but all the places worth going are regularly checked by the PvP guilds looking for an easy kill. Stealthers run around all the champ spawns checking them regular. It takes a lot of gold to make a suit that will stand up to the PvPers weapons and a lot of death to understand how to survive a PvP encounter Most tramies hate death over and over with no return on goods. Then there is the Res killers who just love following your ghost around so they can res kill you more. And god forbid looting their crops, oh man looting them dry makes them cry all the more. So all in all 98% of tramies will never set foot in a PvP area as it goes against everything they have learned in tram and they hate it with a passion. No disrespect to yourself or your idea that started this thread. In an ideal world its a great idea, just not something the UO tramies would participate in

 

[petemage]

Can't really see the point as well. With the royal pardon it's super easy for every PvPer to join me in Tram on any adventure/grind. I'm also ever been free to join them in Fel - if I had wanted to. It's just apart from some monthly spawn that I don't want to. It's not because the rules forced me too, it's rather because a made a choice.

 

[petemage]

I mean it's just UO PvP that is outdated, not the people. PvP on so many games is great fun. I don't mind getting owned by some south american kid on GTA, but on UO it's the most tedious experience you can find in 2016. Go find a wandering healer on foot? Boooooring! Grab my stuff back from the playing field while heavily disadvantaged? Frustrating at best. Finding your body fully looted? Having to restock on pots and whatever? So fun.

If I work some stuff in the 30 minutes spare time I got, I expect it to be mine sweethearts. Oh you got to kill me? GG. Let my head be your trophy. But that stuff over here, sorry, I worked for it.

And thats not even tapping into all the other aspects as economy issues, a basic need for 3rd party tools and so on.

It's not feasible, but IMO the way to get people into PvP is to just spawn them 4 screens away when they die. 50% health, full body next to them. Like focusing on the fun part.

 

[FrejaSP]

I don't think you understod my post, your game would not changes, Felucca will still be only facet you rusk to get killed if you keep your switch Trammel, try read again

 

[petemage]

I don't think you understod my post, your game would not changes, Felucca will still be only facet you rusk to get killed if you keep your switch Trammel, try read again

But you intend to having people change the switch, don't you? So I ask myself, why should I even want to in the first place?

 

[Spartan]

But you intend to having people change the switch, don't you? So I ask myself, why should I even want to in the first place?

IMO the odds of that happening are slim, but the proposal Freja puts forth expands the lands available to hardcore PvPers ... including reds. It takes nothing away from them as have some ideas of the past.

 

[MalagAste]

I don't think you understod my post, your game would not changes, Felucca will still be only facet you rusk to get killed if you keep your switch Trammel, try read again

I did understand... but lets say your at an EM Event with lets say a typical GLs event where we "know" there is likely to be a Boss and Drop so at least 60 people... Lets say of those 60 ... 30 of them are toggled to PvP... Same problem... It WILL become a cluster because now 30 people are there who can accidentally or on purpose attack other players with anything from EV's to RC's and anything else... And it WOULD happen and someone WOULD cry, piss and moan about not getting a drop because they got ganked by XyZ player and his Bro's...

Whether or not I am or am NOT in the PvP it WILL disrupt things people do in Tram. Fel has no business in Tram... Just like if I go to Fel or Siege I know the risks... and I understand them the moment I set foot there.

The implications of having blue healers vs catastrophic disruption of Events and everything else as well as all the Coding that would be involved to do such a thing is a massive issue that honestly isn't worth the effort or time IMO.

If people really wanted more folk into PvP they need to a) stop the cheats and hacks b) make getting killed in PvP less of a PITA c)Give a good reason and reward for it... As it is the Risk vs Reward BS of powerscrolls and everything else is just straight up BS... All that did was make some Fel guilds EXTREMELY rich... and make many of the non-PvPers resent them even more... IMO it had a negative impact on making PvP more appealing...

If you want it to be appealing then make it more "fun"...

One of my biggest beefs with it is them taking out the bounty system for starters though I do understand it was EXTREMELY abused... But there ought to be some sort of reason to do it... VvV is a load of hogwash as well... Many just join for the cheap arties... That's been an issue since they put that in Factions...

Honestly if I could think of something that would work to bring more "fun" to PvP I would post it as a suggestion...

I used to enjoy it once upon a time but that was long time ago and mostly it was about the RP aspect of it... kill the vampires, orcs, urcs, savages what have you and keep the cities safe, it was a job and I enjoyed it. But since those days are dying or dead or long forgotten and I don't see that ever coming back since we have moved the game away from community and toward soloism and greed and as the community dies so does interest in RP.

While yes back in the day people "had" to band together to do things and "had" to defend themselves and their buds to get anywhere that was also NOT fun... I'm sorry but after I spend 2 hours or more gathering resources or working a champ spawn the last thing I want is for some (&*$($ hole to come along and take it in a .2 second battle where I am para ganked by odds of 6 vs 1 ..... I do not find that "fun" on either side or "enjoyable"... and losing the hard earned gains is just salt in the wound.

Most people remember these days fondly because it was THEM making the killing and taking all the reward... the rest of the "sheeple" don't really think that was "fun" ... Infact most of them left in droves and will NEVER return.