No you can't toggle/ during casting, It's also not on TC currently, (yet)
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I don't mind carrying pots but no med might be tough right now
120 mage
120 eval
120 resist
100 scribe
100 anat
90 med
= 70 pts of skill, maybe go with 66.6 alchemy since you get 10% enhance pots for every 33.3% skill of alchemy.
So still get 20% enhance pots, I could roll balakai's staff and if I get disarmed no big deal? +10 med = 100 med any way right?
@drcossack Alchemy is not greater than EP. For investing 100 skill points you get an added dmg calculation on 3 potions, otherwise 50ep will be better in all other potions.
@CovenantX I'm not really sure how you can compare a nova to a magic arrow or anything for that matter that doesn't have a cool down. You can continually cast MA in the 2minute period that nova is on a cool down same with lightning...
@Gorath please stop derailing this thread and post in the appropriate forum.
@Merlin can we get this thread cleaned up
@CovenantX I'm not really sure how you can compare a nova to a magic arrow or anything for that matter that doesn't have a cool down. You can continually cast MA in the 2minute period that nova is on a cool down same with lightning...
@Gorath please stop derailing this thread and post in the appropriate forum.
@Merlin can we get this thread cleaned up
That would make a weapon mage real fun again.
Actually, Alchemy isn't 10% per 33 points. It scales up to 100, essentially, and is more than a 30% increase.
I wouldn't go with Balakai's, since you're still disarmable. Granted, you have Anat, so you're not a sitting duck. Either way, I would forego Med - with the damage from pots, you don't need the extra regen. Plus Mana Regen on your suit compensates.
Go test the differences for yourself and get back to me on the damage of Conflags and Novas. Unless you want me to record it for you, because I'm not opposed to doing that.
Alchemy - UOGuide, the Ultima Online Encyclopedia
"As your skill improves you gain a Enhance Potions bonus of 10% for every 33 skill points achieved (30% at GM). This is on top of any bonus given by your equipment and hence not subject to your equipment cap (granting you a maximum benefit of 80%)."
Or out of date info? I thought 30% enhance pots from skill + 50% enhance pots items.
Yes....hypothetical suit will need to be improved lol.
yea you're right. but magic arrow is delayed, does 5-11 damage depending on cursed target and how high eval-int/scribe is (requires more skill points) casting that during the 2minute cooldown on supernova is the only thing that makes magic arrow comparable.
get rid of supernovas and alchemy won't need to be focus spec restricted either.
adjust parry chances with wrestling and anatomy and parry wouldn't need to go on focus restriction list either... (this has all been suggested before).
@Gorath - out of date/incorrect info.
From the tests I did the other day, which @Old Vet Back Again can't refute without the "Nuh-uh, you're wrong" defense (when he obviously hasn't tested the damage...):
All against a cursed target, so decrease the damage for a 70 fire resist target by 10% in all cases.
0 EP, 100 Alchemy, supernova: 22 damage.
50 EP, 100 Alchemy, supernova: 27 damage.
50 EP, 0 alchemy, supernova: 13 damage
0 EP, 0 alchemy, supernova: 6 damage (done for the lolz to see how low the damage went.)
So again, please tell me how going from 13 (with just 50 EP) to 22 (GM Alchemy, no EP from ring) is a 30% increase. 30% of 13 damage bumps it up to about 17 damage. Didn't test conflags since I didn't bring any over with me when I char copy'd, although I could do it on LS/Atl.
From the tests I did the other day, which @Old Vet Back Again can't refute without the "Nuh-uh, you're wrong" defense (when he obviously hasn't tested the damage...):
All against a cursed target, so decrease the damage for a 70 fire resist target by 10% in all cases.
0 EP, 100 Alchemy, supernova: 22 damage.
50 EP, 100 Alchemy, supernova: 27 damage.
50 EP, 0 alchemy, supernova: 13 damage
0 EP, 0 alchemy, supernova: 6 damage (done for the lolz to see how low the damage went.)
So again, please tell me how going from 13 (with just 50 EP) to 22 (GM Alchemy, no EP from ring) is a 30% increase. 30% of 13 damage bumps it up to about 17 damage. Didn't test conflags since I didn't bring any over with me when I char copy'd, although I could do it on LS/Atl.
Looks like some pretty crazy damage.
Jesus dude, it's not a 30% increase. Learn to read. They have dmg modification into the calc for the invested skill. EP is based on 10 for every 33.3 skill invested, they have other calculations that stack with EP to further promote the amount of invested skill for the trade off. Heal potions only work off EP. Nova/Conflag/Ex Pot/Invis pots get an added modifier because they are REWARDING you for investing the skill points.
"If the user of conflagration potions has any alchemy skill the damage will be increased by 1 for every 13 points of alchemy skill the user has.
The effects of Enhance Potion items are also added to conflagration potions."
Changing alchemy won't change your level of play cossak, learning mechanics would.
Sorry man, but they are not comparable when you look at the dps in comparing the two. FS is delayed, bombard is delayed, Strangle is delayed, Meteor Swarm is delayed....all will out damage a nova in the 2:01 duration of availability.
"As your skill improves you gain a Enhance Potions bonus of 10% for every 33 skill points achieved (30% at GM). This is on top of any bonus given by your equipment and hence not subject to your equipment cap (granting you a maximum benefit of 80%)."
You do understand that I am saying it's MORE than a 30% boost, right? 10% for every 33 points in the skill. Heal pots do gain a bonus from Alchemy, but it's maybe a 10 point increase in how much you heal. With 50 EP I heal for around 35 when I chug a gheal. With Alchemy, that goes up to around 45.
Conflags and Supernovas get a much greater increase from having both EP & Alchemy. This is where it does NOT work correctly, and gives an increase much higher than what's supposed to be a total of 80% for having both. Or is @Peekay, who I believe is (was? I recall a recent post of yours where you said you don't play OSI UO all that much) one of your guildmates in Cartel, wrong too? He said the same thing I'm saying.
compare it to Necromancy > Painspike. It's the closest thing to it to compare it to. and painspike requires a minimum of 60+ necro and 100+ spiritspeak to do the same damage as a nova. it's spammable. but it only does the full damage once, then heals it back after ~5 seconds
You do realize that nova has an added dmg modifier based on skill that stacks with EP, right? Not really sure how I can clarify that anymore. Heal pots gain EP from alchemy, not their own modifier based on skill like Nova/Conflag. Heal pots is a true conversion, conflag/nova has an added modifier.
I'm trying to figure out how many different ways I can say it so you can understand it.
EP is a true conversion
Alchemy adds 30% EP but also on certain potions you also get a modifier based on your skill.
Some potions stack EP along with the skill point bonus and some do not.
But look at all the other spells you get in the 160+ skill investment. If we are going to compare nova to something you need to compare it accurately. The DPS from 160+ necro/ss compared to the DPS from 100 alchemy is not comparable unless you make them both stand still so that EX potion and Conflag can do dmg. Otherwise 2 out of 3 of the alchemy's offensive potions are useless in comparison to Necro/SS 100% successful hit.
There is really nothing you can compare nova to except trigger. I for one am fine with both and have no issues evading their damage. I really see no reason to adjust Nova at all, I'm trying to...but I really do not see anything to warrant a nerf.
...which is exactly what I said by posting the numbers I did. It's not rocket science.
What I am asking for is for less/capped damage on Novas, because for the amount of investment required, it does too much damage. It's essentially an Explosion with no cast time, and a lot less investment (100 Skill points and an item property.) Either that or remove the damage bonus that they have from Alchemy/EP.
but look at the other bonuses you get with alchemy... conflags, explodes, novas, heals, cures, stats. the damage from one potion = > painspike with less investment..
novas alone are much better than trigger... so what does it mean? But painspike to do 10 more damage, buff trigger-Bombard to do more damage and have a shorter cooldown?
or nerf novas.
I'm done arguing with you when you have done a poor attempt at masking your lack of comprehension. Good luck I guess, spellbook and shield almost made a comeback.
Trigger has a greater range and possibility to stun, Pain Spike can be combo'd with omen and Poison strike. None of what you have said is even remotely comparable...I'm gonna have to pass on furthering this argument because you are grasping at straws. There is no reason to nerf novas in today's ubersuit pvp.
Ok then, Blazing Jr. On the ignore list you go.
it sure does have greater range and a possibility of a stun... but it's only used as a finisher and those two perks (range + small stun chance) doesn't justify the damage comparison between the two, nor does it justify the lack of skill investment with the supernova.
and btw, spell trigger - bombard = instant cast, the damage is delayed long enough to mini heal (won't always be enough healing) but you know... you can... react to it.. how hard is it to see the imbalance?
It must be pretty hard to see.... or, most of you guys just don't want it fixed. not sure which is is, but I'd wager the latter.
Perhaps you didn't know... you can use supernovas with both hands full. you lose the benefit of almost everything else alchemy has to offer though (which is why people don't run alchemy with weapon+ shield)
I did not, thanks for teaching me something. @drcossack, that's how you admit to being wrong. The world didn't end and my precious ego is still intact.
no point in fighting with them.good news almost every other pvper thinks novas they are fine so i think we are ok
The damage modifier from alchemy on damage only potions is the problem with alchemy. It should not triple the damage of them. No other skill calculation is this screwed up in UO. Why does it affect damage potions differently then heal potions. It should just be 30 EP bonus and no added modifier. Alchemy is ONLY supposed to let you break the 50EP and get 80 EP-- that's it. Anything else is broken and isn't even arguable.
I mean what if you got 50 percent chance of added damage on a battle axe using lumberjack, but every other axe got the 10 percent bonus. Would you not complain about it. I mean Jesus Christ its like explaining string theory to kindergarten kids.
I mean what if you got 50 percent chance of added damage on a battle axe using lumberjack, but every other axe got the 10 percent bonus. Would you not complain about it. I mean Jesus Christ its like explaining string theory to kindergarten kids.
Actually, that wasn't why. It had everything to do with you being a condescending jackass about every single post I've made that's been Anti-Nova. But hey, feel free to convince me of the following:
1) That the damage from Novas is fine
2) The effects of EP/Alchemy on damage-dealing potions isn't overpowered.
And keep it civil, mmmkay? If you can do all 3 of those things, I will happily admit that I'm wrong.
I actually don't really want conflags or explosion pots nerfed.... just supernovas. Alchemy hadn't ever been a problem until supernovas became a thing.
I want supernovas nerfed to where you can either.
1) react to it (make them avoidable by way of the person getting hit)
because something that's instant & unavoidable shouldn't do the damage of an E-bolt (15% SDI ebolt = 21-23) oh, here we go... it takes a minimum of 100 magery (100% cast) & 120 eval =15% SDI) for that... and guess what, it's still interruptible therefor avoidable. also delayed, slightly..., it shouldn't do even a 1/3rd of that....
What else you guys got though? I've been showing you what's wrong with supernovas, you have yet to respond with a comparison that doesn't just help my point.
I want supernovas nerfed to where you can either.
1) react to it (make them avoidable by way of the person getting hit)
because something that's instant & unavoidable shouldn't do the damage of an E-bolt (15% SDI ebolt = 21-23) oh, here we go... it takes a minimum of 100 magery (100% cast) & 120 eval =15% SDI) for that... and guess what, it's still interruptible therefor avoidable. also delayed, slightly..., it shouldn't do even a 1/3rd of that....
What else you guys got though? I've been showing you what's wrong with supernovas, you have yet to respond with a comparison that doesn't just help my point.
Not in protection...DPS of EB in protection vs Nova w/cooldown...still not comparable.
The skill requirement to cast the e-bolt alone is more than enough to make up for the cooldown....
what do you have against a spell-trigger Bombard vs nova? let's hear it, hopefully something that makes more sense than the protection/ebolt comparison (it's weak).
I have nothing against Trigger. It works as intended. I have nothing to prove to you, I am just showing you how flawed your argument is. I think the risk vs reward on both trigger and Nova is worth every invested skill point.
You can't sit here and talk about 2 things that are not comparable. You are literally throwing everything you've got to prove your argument, but the basis of your argument is severely flawed. You can't compare invested skill points to cast a single spell when those same exact skill points also allow you to cast an additional 48 spells. Those 48 spells will out damage a nova because you literally can use a single nova every 2 minutes.
I get that your argument is mainly about it being uninterruptible and that is the only part that holds merit. I don't agree with it, but I can at least understand where you are coming from.
That's a hell of a dodge, on the "I have nothing against Trigger" ... I mean't an argument stating why supernovas do the same or more damage than it... (still didn't answer it, I wonder why?....)
It's not just two things lol. literally everything takes more skill points And MORE TIMING (player-skill), still not as reliable or does as much damage with little to no cost like supernovas...
Nothing is unavoidable in the same way supernovas are.... -fix it.
Fix supernovas, and mages will have a choice between scribe, alchemy, or poisoning. If not, Alchemy will stay better than each of those.
Alchemist's do not make Supernova potions.
Supernova Potions are a PvP reward and as a reward should be balanced equally for every template. Everyone spends the same amount of points to get supernova's so how does it make sense that they are more effective for one skill over all others especially considering no other skill has a reward option that gives them their own unique advantage.
So logic suggests as stated by someone on this forum that (50ep/0 alchemy = 13-15damage nova's) the cap on Supernova damage should be 15 for everyone, including Alchemists.
For anyone wishing to argue this, keeping in mind Alchemist's have 0 skill points invested into acquiring / creating supernova's I would like hear your reasoning on why an Alchemist should receive a damage bonus on a REWARD available to everyone.
I will be back tomorrow to hopefully read some enlightening posts.
Supernova Potions are a PvP reward and as a reward should be balanced equally for every template. Everyone spends the same amount of points to get supernova's so how does it make sense that they are more effective for one skill over all others especially considering no other skill has a reward option that gives them their own unique advantage.
So logic suggests as stated by someone on this forum that (50ep/0 alchemy = 13-15damage nova's) the cap on Supernova damage should be 15 for everyone, including Alchemists.
For anyone wishing to argue this, keeping in mind Alchemist's have 0 skill points invested into acquiring / creating supernova's I would like hear your reasoning on why an Alchemist should receive a damage bonus on a REWARD available to everyone.
I will be back tomorrow to hopefully read some enlightening posts.
It's a good suggestion as well. because that's "Balance"... you still gain benefits from other things as a reason to choose alchemy over scribe or poisoning...
+1. Good idea.
The way some people talk about Alchy in this thread you'd think its like Word of Death all over again. Investing 100 skill points it should have something that makes it worth investing that in. UO needs to be easier to kill people not harder. Stop nerfing everything.
please let me land 2 back to back AIs instead of going 2 out of 12, have a 211 stam suit, havent taken a single point of dmg to drop below stam cap, and the person didnt move within 8-10 tiles away. please please please
I have no problem with alchemy as is... but based on the figures posted in this thread. This thread has raised questions for me about alchemy. Anyone with the knowledge, please feel free to learn me on the subject.
I read that alchemy scales based on every point? Not every 10 or every 33.3? What is the actual fact about how alchemy scales?
Secondly, I would like to know the damage modifier to the pots based on alchemy. It seems that conflags and novas do way more than 30%. Also, how much more do explosion pots do? I just want to understand the math behind the boost alchemy gives. I kind of just used it with no regard prior to reading this thread, but now im curious.
I read that alchemy scales based on every point? Not every 10 or every 33.3? What is the actual fact about how alchemy scales?
Secondly, I would like to know the damage modifier to the pots based on alchemy. It seems that conflags and novas do way more than 30%. Also, how much more do explosion pots do? I just want to understand the math behind the boost alchemy gives. I kind of just used it with no regard prior to reading this thread, but now im curious.
Every 33.3 10 ep . Alchemy is not an issue anyways. 100 skill points for a couple of pots.... No big deal
Really?
They receive the bonus for the invested skill points. In the same way any other build benefits from having invested skill points. A mystic with 100 Mystic doesn't benefit from Bombard on spell trigger like someone who invested 120 skill does, its really not rocket science.
Everyone can benefit from Novas even with 0 alchemy on my archer, I use them to disrupt heals from opposing team mates, reveal stealthers or people who are invised and just to add a tiny bit of extra damage on a sync. BUT if i put on 100 Alchemy, i'd expect a POTION to do something extra for the invested skillpoints, wether I craft it or not, I still had to work to get it.
Can someone post results of testing spell plague prepatch and post patch. Average damage for first tick and each subsequent tick? I have not been around to test but am very curious as to how big of a change it will be.
Except that literally is not how the bonus for the skill works. Please read the damage #s I posted, because it is NOT a 10% boost for every 33.3 in the skill. Of course, you, and everyone else that uses Supernovas, already knows that it gives more than a 30% boost, which is why so many people are using Alchemy. Since I KNOW you're aware of that boost, you're likely using "Mith math" to justify why you want to keep Supernovas/the damage bonus from Alchemy.
For the amount of skill invested, it does too much damage, especially compared to mage/dexer skills. Max damage on Supernova requires 100 skill points and an item property. Max damage from spells: 120 Magery, 120 Eval, 30% SDI, GM Necro/120 SS, 120 Mystic/Focus, etc. Dexers: Weapon Skill, Tactics, Anatomy for the "classic" dexer templates (that are never used.)
While it does have a 2 minute cooldown, a Supernova, at its maximum damage boost, is essentially an instant-cast Explosion/EBolt that you can't avoid (whether by interrupting or running), and won't see it coming before it's already hit you.
I don't use Novas, so I won't lie, removing them from the game entirely isn't gonna bother me. That aside, the devs aren't likely to remove them anyway, so I'm fighting a losing battle in that regard. However, that does not mean I'm going to stop pushing for a reduction in the damage boost that Alchemy gives to the two (ok, three, but the last one is harder to use) potions used for doing damage. fwiw, Explosion pots do MORE damage than a Supernova, but nobody's complaining about their damage. Do you have any idea why?
On Atlantic right now, with 15 SDI on a Mystic Weaver: Plague does 19-20ish whether cursed or not; although that was likely hitting my physical resist. When plague targeted an elemental resist while I was cursed, it did 26. I was getting 8-11 on the plague ticks.
TC1: With all 70's & 15 SDI, Plague did 25. While Cursed, Plague did 35 when it hit an elemental resist. Plague tick damage appears to have remained the same. I also threw Inscription on/dropped Magery, and Plague was hitting me for 38 while still Cursed.
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So one spell with procs can now do up to 62-71 damage?
Maybe they should change it so plague always targets physical resist too *lol*
Maybe they should change it so plague always targets physical resist too *lol*
Can you explain the changes to spell plague a bit more to me? I know spell plague you hit someone with it, and sometimes they get hit with additional spells if you hit them with other spells....what does this change do? Relatively new back on the game.
Its fairly obvious that all the people that are using alchemy have no idea how the game mechanic works on it. Ill refer to these people are the Helen Keller's of game mechanics. Most people that pvp are just ignorant to facts and just copycat what smarter people make for templates. They don't know why it does so much DPS, they just like it. What a sad state the pvp world has become. If you think alchemy is working as intended then you also probably wear Velcro shoes causes laces make your head hurt. What a joke UO PvPer had become.
What specifically about alchemy isn't working as intended besides double conflags?
Probably because they're potions.
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Folks, the name calling needs to stop ASAP. This thread still falls under the Stratics RoC, which can be found here: Rules of Conduct | Stratics
Furthermore, the changes affect both PVM and PVP. PVPers opinions are weighted the same as everyone elses, so no need for the condescension.
Furthermore, the changes affect both PVM and PVP. PVPers opinions are weighted the same as everyone elses, so no need for the condescension.