NEWS [UO.Com] Testing Combat Changes on TC1

[drcossack]

Can you explain the changes to spell plague a bit more to me? I know spell plague you hit someone with it, and sometimes they get hit with additional spells if you hit them with other spells....what does this change do? Relatively new back on the game.

It's a damage buff on Spell Plague. Between that and the Plague ticks, you're easily doing close to 50 damage with it, if not more.

Folks, the name calling needs to stop ASAP.



The changes affect both PVM and PVP. PVPers opinions are weighted the same as everyone elses, so no need for the condescension.

What part of the changes affect pvm? Moving shot? Nobody on an archer uses moving shot in pvm. Pots? Nobody uses those in pvm either. Focused Spec? Mages have TERRIBLE damage in pvm, unless they've got one of the following: Spellweaving, Mysticism, or Taming. Even if they have one of those three skills, Dexers will still deal A LOT more damage than any mage template.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

Can you explain the changes to spell plague a bit more to me? I know spell plague you hit someone with it, and sometimes they get hit with additional spells if you hit them with other spells....what does this change do? Relatively new back on the game.

SDI was not being applied to spell plague.

So instead of fixing it (i.e. making it so you need 15 SDI to hit current max spell damage) they decided to leave the spell damage and ADD the extra SDI. Giving it a huge and unnecessary boost. They toned down spell plague a long time ago and now they are buffing it right back up.

 

[Merlin]

It's a damage buff on Spell Plague. Between that and the Plague ticks, you're easily doing close to 50 damage with it, if not more.



What part of the changes affect pvm? Moving shot? Nobody on an archer uses moving shot in pvm. Pots? Nobody uses those in pvm either. Focused Spec? Mages have TERRIBLE damage in pvm, unless they've got one of the following: Spellweaving, Mysticism, or Taming. Even if they have one of those three skills, Dexers will still deal A LOT more damage than any mage template.

Yes, people in PVM using throwers do pot up.

Yes, people in PVM do use moving shot. They might not rely on it like some in PVP do, but they still use it and their opinions of it are as valid as any PVPer.

The PVPers need to get off their high horse whenever something that affects both PVM and PVP comes into play they act like the run the show, when in fact they do not. The constant condescension from PVP folks that comes out of EVERY single thread discussing game changes is overbearing and tries to squeeze out anyone else from posting their opinion. People are free to disagree all they like, but they can do so in a manner that is tactful and thought out - not bullying, condescension and name calling.

EDIT:
I did some thread clean up. Please keep in clean folks.

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

I have no problem with alchemy as is... but based on the figures posted in this thread. This thread has raised questions for me about alchemy. Anyone with the knowledge, please feel free to learn me on the subject.

I read that alchemy scales based on every point? Not every 10 or every 33.3? What is the actual fact about how alchemy scales?

Secondly, I would like to know the damage modifier to the pots based on alchemy. It seems that conflags and novas do way more than 30%. Also, how much more do explosion pots do? I just want to understand the math behind the boost alchemy gives. I kind of just used it with no regard prior to reading this thread, but now im curious.

1 The effects of this potion can be enhanced by the Enhance Potions property on magic items.

2If the user of explosion potions has any alchemy skill the damage will be increased by 1 for every 5 points of alchemy skill the user has.
The effects of Enhance Potion items are also added to explosion potions. Explosion potions cannot be used if you are [frozen].

3 If the user of conflagration potions has any alchemy skill the damage will be increased by 1 for every 13 points of alchemy skill the user has.
The effects of Enhance Potion items are also added to conflagration potions.

4 If the user of invisibility potions has any alchemy skill the duration will be increased by 1 for every 10 points of alchemy skill the user has.
The effects of Enhance Potion items are also added to invisibility potions.

5 Eodonian potions can only be crafted by characters who have read the recipe, a potential reward from the quest ‘The Zealotry of Zipactriotol’ Effects of these potions are removed upon death. All except Kurak Ambusher’s Essence are subject to a cooldown period of 20 minutes

The above is the break down from the UO wiki. Using that along with the true conversion of EP you can see that some pots operate off EP and some operate off EP and an Alchemy skill bonus. The only figure not listed in an actual forumla is Nova, but through testing you can see it has an added dmg calc based on invested skill stacked with EP.

I'll hop in mumble tonight, finally getting back in the swing of things. Chad knows all of this as well if you catch him before me. Hopefully you got a good vegas story to tell me, the last one was epic.

 

[drcossack]

Yes, people in PVM using throwers do pot up.

Yes, people in PVM do use moving shot. They might not rely on it like some in PVP do, but they still use it and their opinions of it are as valid as any PVPer.

The PVPers need to get off their high horse whenever something that affects both PVM and PVP comes into play they act like the run the show, when in fact they do not. The constant condescension from PVP folks that comes out of EVERY single thread discussing game changes is overbearing and tries to squeeze out anyone else from posting their opinion. People are free to disagree all they like, but they can do so in a manner that is tactful and thought out - not bullying, condescension and name calling.

EDIT:
I did some thread clean up. Please keep in clean folks.

They do? I would venture to guess that 99% of pvm throwers/archers don't have any EP on their jewels at all, and certainly don't have Alchemy. Alchemy won't be there because they can't fit it, especially when they want to maximize their damage (i.e. Whammy thrower/archer.) EP won't be there because it isn't needed in pvm - SSI, HCI, DI, etc are all more important for a pvm dexer.

Moving shot: Ok, MAYBE someone who isn't very experienced with the template would use it, but there are two problems with that: 1) Very few monsters run AWAY from you, and 2) if they do run at all (i.e. at low health), it's not very fast at all. If you have to chase them, you can just stop for however long you need to finish it off with an auto-attack/Armor Ignore.

 

[Merus]

They do? I would venture to guess that 99% of pvm throwers/archers don't have any EP on their jewels at all, and certainly don't have Alchemy. Alchemy won't be there because they can't fit it, especially when they want to maximize their damage (i.e. Whammy thrower/archer.) EP won't be there because it isn't needed in pvm - SSI, HCI, DI, etc are all more important for a pvm dexer.

Moving shot: Ok, MAYBE someone who isn't very experienced with the template would use it, but there are two problems with that: 1) Very few monsters run AWAY from you, and 2) if they do run at all (i.e. at low health), it's not very fast at all. If you have to chase them, you can just stop for however long you need to finish it off with an auto-attack/Armor Ignore.

Hey now! I use moving shot in PvM sometimes... when I hit the wrong macro. It happens.

 

[Dorinda]

@Bleak, pop on those toggles for specials while casting.

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

They do? I would venture to guess that 99% of pvm throwers/archers don't have any EP on their jewels at all, and certainly don't have Alchemy. Alchemy won't be there because they can't fit it, especially when they want to maximize their damage (i.e. Whammy thrower/archer.) EP won't be there because it isn't needed in pvm - SSI, HCI, DI, etc are all more important for a pvm dexer.

What? Any viable PVM template wanting to maximize their DPS is going to utilize 50EP from jewlery. You get an added 30str (dmg modification) and 30 Dex (ssi modification). I really can't understand how you come up with your facts sometimes. ALL of the information to build a template and utilize it properly is displayed in 1 of 2 places...

 

[Merlin]

What? Any viable PVM template wanting to maximize their DPS is going to utilize 50EP from jewlery. You get an added 30str (dmg modification) and 30 Dex (ssi modification).

Exactly. Unless I'm mistaken, I see no way a thrower can get to 210+ stamina without pots.

 

[Merus]

Exactly. Unless I'm mistaken, I see no way a thrower can get to 210+ stamina without pots.

Umm... yes they can.

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

Exactly. Unless I'm mistaken, I see no way a thrower can get to 210+ stamina without pots.

They can, but the suit would be really expensive. Pots allow a basic suit accessibility with EP. Different strokes for different folks...

 

[Merlin]

They can, but the suit would be really expensive. Pots allow a basic suit accessibility with EP. Different strokes for different folks...

Ah... someone just explained it to me in our TS channel. In short, you need the near perfect suit.

None the less... point remains that PVMers do pot up too.

 

[CovenantX]

You guys are ridiculously funny sometimes.

It was obvious to me, he meant Alchemy.

It's a damage buff on Spell Plague. Between that and the Plague ticks, you're easily doing close to 50 damage with it, if not more.

What part of the changes affect pvm? Moving shot? Nobody on an archer uses moving shot in pvm. Pots? Nobody uses those in pvm either. Focused Spec? Mages have TERRIBLE damage in pvm, unless they've got one of the following: Spellweaving, Mysticism, or Taming. Even if they have one of those three skills, Dexers will still deal A LOT more damage than any mage template.

There isn't anyone in PvM that is going to have Alchemy on a dexer for 6 more str/dex. EP? Sure, that's not the point anyway.

The point was that none of the changes suggested to Alchemy would make a damn difference in pvm.
Moving shot has 0 use in pvm. Thus, it does NOT effect pvm.

Focus spec, does NOT apply to Pvm, regardless. because there is NO SDI cap. this is why people need to explain their opinions more, so you can tell who is full of **** without pointing it out each and every time.

Let's get back to the real discussion?

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

You guys are ridiculously funny sometimes.

It was obvious to me, he meant Alchemy.




There isn't anyone in PvM that is going to have Alchemy on a dexer for 6 more str/dex. EP? Sure, that's not the point anyway.

The point was that none of the changes suggested to Alchemy would make a damn difference in pvm.
Moving shot has 0 use in pvm. Thus, it does NOT effect pvm.

Focus spec, does NOT apply to Pvm, regardless. because there is NO SDI cap. this is why people need to explain their opinions more, so you can tell who is full of **** without pointing it out each and every time.

Let's get back to the real discussion?

"They do? I would venture to guess that 99% of pvm throwers/archers don't have any EP on their jewels at all, and certainly don't have Alchemy."

How can you possibly interpret that as, "he meant alchemy".

 

[CovenantX]

"They do? I would venture to guess that 99% of pvm throwers/archers don't have any EP on their jewels at all, and certainly don't have Alchemy."

How can you possibly interpret that as, "he meant alchemy".

That's his opinion. like I said, that wasn't the point anyway. because EP does not equate to skill, especially a skill that would have 0 effect on the aspect in question.

Edit: let's see a suggestion so far (to alchemy) that would have an effect on pvm?

 

[drcossack]

What? Any viable PVM template wanting to maximize their DPS is going to utilize 50EP from jewlery. You get an added 30str (dmg modification) and 30 Dex (ssi modification). I really can't understand how you come up with your facts sometimes. ALL of the information to build a template and utilize it properly is displayed in 1 of 2 places...

125 Str base, Mace & Shield Glasses, Conj Trinket/Cameo, Ranger's Cloak/30 SSI weapon to get to 50 SSI. If I could use Ozy's Obi on my Gargs, I'd be at 146 Str on all of them, because I certainly have enough of them at this point. It'd also put me at 165-ish stamina, which is 1.75 second swings.

Every other piece on my thrower's suits is basic imbued gear with Stam/Mana Inc and LRC/LMC. I have no problems whatsoever exceeding 200+ damage with Armor Ignore (on a regular basis - my max damage with AI is 237) and 1.75 second swings: I use Slayer Weap/Talisman and 100% DI, with 120 Anat/Tactics. If I used EP, which isn't necessary at all, I'd swing .25 seconds faster. Unless I invested in 210 stam, which is also completely unnecessary in pvm (just like EP), I wouldn't notice a difference in my swing rate at all.

But I'll tell you what. Next time I do an EM event, I will take note of every thrower/archer that's there and see how many use high stam suits and pots. Guaranteed it won't be anywhere near as many as you and Merlin seem to think are out there.

"They do? I would venture to guess that 99% of pvm throwers/archers don't have any EP on their jewels at all, and certainly don't have Alchemy."

How can you possibly interpret that as, "he meant alchemy".

Maybe because I said "they don't have alchemy" after I said "don't have any EP on their jewels." Are you even reading my posts, or automatically dismissing the content because it's me posting them?

Let me break it down for you in simpler language, which you can hopefully understand:

Moving shot does nothing in pvm, because nobody NEEDS to use it. Alchemy/EP are just as pointless, because you don't NEED ridiculously high stamina to do the max possible dps. Can it be done? Yes. But I doubt it's as prevalent as you're saying it is, simply because it's not necessary. Get to 1.5 second swings, or hell, even 1.75 second swings, and stack as much DI as you can on the character. That's literally ALL you need to do in pvm.

Are we even playing the same UO here? btw, I'm still waiting for your argument on why Supernova damage is fine the way it is. I can't help but notice you haven't responded to that post though...

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

125 Str base, Mace & Shield Glasses, Conj Trinket/Cameo, Ranger's Cloak/30 SSI weapon to get to 50 SSI. Every other piece on my thrower's suits is basic imbued gear with Stam/Mana Inc and LRC/LMC. I have no problems whatsoever exceeding 200+ damage with Armor Ignore (on a regular basis - my max damage with AI is 237) and 1.75 second swings: I use Slayer Weap/Talisman and 100% DI, with 120 Anat/Tactics. If I used EP, which isn't necessary at all, I'd swing .25 seconds faster. Unless I invested in 210 stam, which is also completely unnecessary in pvm (just like EP), I wouldn't notice a difference in my swing rate at all.

But I'll tell you what. Next time I do an EM event, I will take note of every thrower/archer that's there and see how many use high stam suits and pots. Guaranteed it won't be anywhere near as many as you and Merlin seem to think are out there.



Maybe because I said "they don't have alchemy" after I said "don't have any EP on their jewels." Are you even reading my posts, or automatically dismissing the content because it's me posting them?

Let me break it down for you in simpler language, which you can hopefully understand:

Moving shot does nothing in pvm, because nobody NEEDS to use it. Alchemy/EP are just as pointless, because you don't NEED ridiculously high stamina to do the max possible dps. Can it be done? Yes. But I doubt it's as prevalent as you're saying it is, simply because it's not necessary. Get to 1.5 second swings, or hell, even 1.75 second swings, and stack as much DI as you can on the character. That's literally ALL you need to do in pvm.

Are we even playing the same UO here? btw, I'm still waiting for your argument on why Supernova damage is fine the way it is. I can't help but notice you haven't responded to that post though...

Who would have higher DPS if we have the same dmg output...You at 1.75 or me at 1.25? Not every PvMer only does EM events. Any other aspect of PvM would have a significant benefit to increasing their SSI to increase their DPS. Would you rather finish an encounter in 1hr or if possible 45minutes?

Super Nova's are fine the way they are because A) they are working as the devs intended and B) in the current meta of PvP you need them for a kill shot. Suits allow too much dmg reduction and healing capabilities. Like @randy said, 'we should be making it easier to kill, not harder".

 

[drcossack]

Who would have higher DPS if we have the same dmg output...You at 1.75 or me at 1.25? Not every PvMer only does EM events. Any other aspect of PvM would have a significant benefit to increasing their SSI to increase their DPS. Would you rather finish an encounter in 1hr or if possible 45minutes?

Super Nova's are fine the way they are because A) they are working as the devs intended and B) in the current meta of PvP you need them for a kill shot. Suits allow too much dmg reduction and healing capabilities. Like @randy said, 'we should be making it easier to kill, not harder".

I do more than EM events when I pvm (matter of fact, the only time I'm NOT pvm'ing on a Dexer is at Shadowguard), but really, there's not many things in this game where you need another dexer. Half second difference: You, obviously. But when the goal is to do enough damage to get loot rights, it doesn't matter.

Nova pots: "Working as intended" is debatable. The fact remains that, even with the two minute cooldown, they are, at their maximum, an unavoidable source of damage that does damage comparable to Explosion/EBolt (whether or not the target is cursed), with far less investment required to reach that damage. Randy's point isn't even a point, because a) it's already possible to kill people without them, b) everyone that uses them clearly cannot play without pots c) a well-timed mortal or poison is far more effective in killing someone than a nova/conflag.

 

[CovenantX]

B) in the current meta of PvP you need them for a kill shot. Suits allow too much dmg reduction and healing capabilities. Like @randy said, 'we should be making it easier to kill, not harder".

I'll ignore point A) because there are and have been many things that "work as intended" that have been changed because they can still work as intended and be wrong... I'll say Curse + Corpse stacking as an example since it was the most recent..., which has been re-adjusted to work as it does on TC1...

B) the current meta of pvp shows you "NEED" them for a kill shot. Suits allow too much damage reduction & Healing capabilities.

You don't see a problem with the "Need" of supernovas, If some people can kill others, without novas why can't the rest of you?

What exactly do you mean, but suits allow too much damage reduction? the only people that are hard to kill, are the ones with alchemy and healing.... all things you can have going on as passive without affecting your offense or just adding to it (alchemy). how is it that you guys bring up the points of people being too hard to kill and ignore consumable items as a culprit of it? like c'mon....

Anyway.. let's get to a hypothetical, since discussions seem to bring about change....

What happens if the devs allow all casting schools to have 20% SDI? in addition to all that's currently (here) on TC1

Let's take a look at the other skills that do not have any +skill modification items available, that also reach a maximum of 100.0 skill investment.

Scribe is only a bonus if you're able to cast you spells, fair enough.... (protection = slower spells) incase you want to bring protection into it again....
Poisoning = bonus to poison making it more difficult to cure. adds to the combat LMC bonus (still requires 70.0 tactics for the LMC bonus currently on TC1)
both of which are almost entirely nullified by Alchemy. it's all good. but why does alchemy need something like supernovas? they don't get enough bonuses as it is?
they need to carry pots. then again, everyone carries pots regardless if they have Alchemy anyway.

You guys are only accounting for group play, yet most of you (I think all of you) agreed, balancing should be one vs one based, no?
Also, if you can't sync a target without the use of Supernovas there's room for improvement.

Also, Randy plays a Healing-Parry-Alchemy-Mage. hard to kill? absolutely, it's the only template that would really be unkillable without supernovas. (IMO), obviously one vs one.

Alchemy gives you more bonuses than Parry. it also makes parry more easily accessible without sacrifice, because of the dex bonus (6 is minor), obviously dex increases healing speed as well. what do they really sacrifice for it? They sacrifice meditation, which really isn't needed thus also a minor sacrifice. However, that also explains why he would "Need" supernovas to stay as guaranteed 20+ damage, because of the lack of mana to finish people off...

So, explain, why supernovas should stay as is? (anything is better than that)

 

[Skalazar]

While we are discussing item's that should be removed from the game I will throw another out there for discussion.

Trapped Boxes.

Trap Boxes are game breaking currently. No item should have unlimited uses especially with no cooldown. Boxes should have a maximum charge of 5 or at minimum a 30 second cooldown added. Ideally they should just be removed from the game entirely.

It's replacement is already in the game it just needs to be removed from the VvV rewards and added to the alchemy craftable's so it's readily available to everyone. That is the Potion of Anti Paralysis. This item is better balanced as its a consumable and the stamina penalty is a nice addition.

I Imagine that I am wrong as people like to run around with 0 resist and endlessly click a box macro every paralyze with no drawback is good for the game. @Bleak ?

 

[drcossack]

While we are discussing item's that should be removed from the game I will throw another out there for discussion.

Trapped Boxes.

Trap Boxes are game breaking currently. No item should have unlimited uses especially with no cooldown. Boxes should have a maximum charge of 5 or at minimum a 30 second cooldown added. Ideally they should just be removed from the game entirely.

It's replacement is already in the game it just needs to be removed from the VvV rewards and added to the alchemy craftable's so it's readily available to everyone. That is the Potion of Anti Paralysis. This item is better balanced as its a consumable and the stamina penalty is a nice addition.

I Imagine that I am wrong as people like to run around with 0 resist and endlessly click a box macro every paralyze with no drawback is good for the game. @Bleak ?

Just a slight correction: They aren't clicking a macro. The trapped box script is VERY popular. Not opposed to charges on it, but I don't think I like the cooldown idea. It sounds good...until you get para-ganked. Also, I have seen people carry multiple trapped boxes, so all this would do is force them to carry even more of them, whether it's a 30 second cooldown or a set # of charges.

 

[cobb]

While we are discussing item's that should be removed from the game I will throw another out there for discussion.

Trapped Boxes.

Trap Boxes are game breaking currently. No item should have unlimited uses especially with no cooldown. Boxes should have a maximum charge of 5 or at minimum a 30 second cooldown added. Ideally they should just be removed from the game entirely.

It's replacement is already in the game it just needs to be removed from the VvV rewards and added to the alchemy craftable's so it's readily available to everyone. That is the Potion of Anti Paralysis. This item is better balanced as its a consumable and the stamina penalty is a nice addition.

I Imagine that I am wrong as people like to run around with 0 resist and endlessly click a box macro every paralyze with no drawback is good for the game. @Bleak ?

Getting mana vamped is no drawback?

Not to mention resist doesn't help you against omen para.

 

[cobb]

I am confused. Why would anyone use Moving Shot in pvm? What is the purpose?

 

[Skalazar]

I am not a fan of a cooldown. My preferred solution would be to remove trap boxes entirely and move on to the Anti Paralysis potions which were added specifically to break paralyze. Yet no one uses because of trapped boxes being broken.

Yes mana vamp is a drawback to running 0 resist but it is not a drawback to using a infinite charge trap box to break a paralyze.

Evil Omen + Para should be a powerful combination yet its negated by an infinite dart.
hitting with a paralyzing blow should be rewarding but yet again broken by a box.
paralyze fields are easily passed with a box.

I am not saying to remove a person's ability to break paralyze. But the fact that it can be done endlessly needs to be addressed. Consuming a potion is a perfect solution as if the player manages their resources poorly it could end up costing them in the end.

 

[DJ Diddles]

Ah... someone just explained it to me in our TS channel. In short, you need the near perfect suit.

None the less... point remains that PVMers do pot up too.

You're still not getting it.

Yes, some PvM'ers do pot up. They do not need alchemy to do so. The effects of alchemy (even before the change was reverted) would have literally zero effects on PvM'ers as it as has already been pointed out here that focus specs do not apply to PvM given the lack of an SDI cap.

How EP works is not being changed. How alchemy affects greater strength, agility, heal, cure, or refresh potions is not being changed.

Let's go line by line in the patch notes and figure out what actually applies to PvM'ers:

Moving Shot Update

As mentioned already, moving shot should never be used in PvM (across hundreds of events, champ spawns, Exodus encounters, Corguls, and more, I have never needed or wanted to moving shot)

Weapons Special Move Update

No PvM character should remove tactics from their character as 1. that damage increase scales very well in PvM 2. Without the lower mana bonus for specials PvM would become very difficult, even in vamp or wraith forms 3. there are no legitimate replacements as all top tier PvM dexxer templates are already cookie cutter and do involve tactics

Mysticism Update

I'm not sure how many "pure" mystics (no magery, spellweaving, or necro) there are running around in PvM, but I don't imagine there are many situations where one of the other casting skills doesn't offer a better AoE option besides Hail Storm. This is the one patch note that I will concede that it's possible that a PvM'er could have some legitimate, albeit niche, input.

Misc Changes

A bug fix for PvM (nothing to actually discuss there), and none of the other changes are relevant to PvM.


So if PvM'ers have something to say about the Hail Storm change (outside of the guy on the first page that already talked about it), let me hear it.

 

[PwnySlaystation]

For the amount of skill invested, it does too much damage, especially compared to mage/dexer skills. Max damage on Supernova requires 100 skill points and an item property. Max damage from spells: 120 Magery, 120 Eval, 30% SDI, GM Necro/120 SS, 120 Mystic/Focus, etc. Dexers: Weapon Skill, Tactics, Anatomy for the "classic" dexer templates (that are never used.)

Not really, when you take into account all the OTHER uses of said other skills that require additional skillpoints to work. Basing your logic purely on spell damage is a little narrowminded.

While it does have a 2 minute cooldown, a Supernova, at its maximum damage boost, is essentially an instant-cast Explosion/EBolt that you can't avoid (whether by interrupting or running), and won't see it coming before it's already hit you.

Ever heard of pre-emption? Same as anything else in UO. Why should dexers who have 0 skill points in magery be allowed a 15 damage lightning from their weapon that I cannot see coming until its hit me, or interupt despite they can do this whilst running?

 

[Kiss Of Death]

Hahaha someone complaining about trapped boxes lololol.... Omg please learn to pvp

 

[Cady]

Hahaha someone complaining about trapped boxes lololol.... Omg please learn to pvp

Why should trapped boxes have infinite charges? How does that even make sense. I don't think I support a cooldown, but charges, hell yea! It's pretty easy to avoid riding swipe or bola dismount without a trapped box while you're paralyzed, having limited uses per box shouldn't be game breaking for anyone.

Also, I'm with Dorinda on special move toggles! But I'm happy enough with just seeing the tactics requirement disappear.

 

[Dorinda]

@Bleak please add toggling specials while casting.

 

[OREOGL]

Why should trapped boxes have infinite charges? How does that even make sense. I don't think I support a cooldown, but charges, hell yea! It's pretty easy to avoid riding swipe or bola dismount without a trapped box while you're paralyzed, having limited uses per box shouldn't be game breaking for anyone.

Also, I'm with Dorinda on special move toggles! But I'm happy enough with just seeing the tactics requirement disappear.

Trapped boxes are fine.

No one wants pvp to turn into unending paralyze spam. There's enough of that already.

 

[OREOGL]

Yes, people in PVM using throwers do pot up.

Yes, people in PVM do use moving shot. They might not rely on it like some in PVP do, but they still use it and their opinions of it are as valid as any PVPer.

The PVPers need to get off their high horse whenever something that affects both PVM and PVP comes into play they act like the run the show, when in fact they do not. The constant condescension from PVP folks that comes out of EVERY single thread discussing game changes is overbearing and tries to squeeze out anyone else from posting their opinion. People are free to disagree all they like, but they can do so in a manner that is tactful and thought out - not bullying, condescension and name calling.

EDIT:
I did some thread clean up. Please keep in clean folks.

I would encourage PVMers to come with an intelligible argument about the changes and the game mechanics then.

Given the lack of response otherwise implies there's not a consensus that these changes are significantly affecting PVM.

 

[OREOGL]

@Gorath - out of date/incorrect info.

From the tests I did the other day, which @Old Vet Back Again can't refute without the "Nuh-uh, you're wrong" defense (when he obviously hasn't tested the damage...):

All against a cursed target, so decrease the damage for a 70 fire resist target by 10% in all cases.

0 EP, 100 Alchemy, supernova: 22 damage.
50 EP, 100 Alchemy, supernova: 27 damage.
50 EP, 0 alchemy, supernova: 13 damage
0 EP, 0 alchemy, supernova: 6 damage (done for the lolz to see how low the damage went.)

So again, please tell me how going from 13 (with just 50 EP) to 22 (GM Alchemy, no EP from ring) is a 30% increase. 30% of 13 damage bumps it up to about 17 damage. Didn't test conflags since I didn't bring any over with me when I char copy'd, although I could do it on LS/Atl.

These numbers are the same numbers I was getting also.

 

[randy]

So now that Moving shot and parry are getting a deserved nerf can we talk about how unnecessary these spell plague changes would be? Everyone was complaining about how parry mages have insane offense and defense well Mystics now have insane offense and insane defense.

 

[drcossack]

Not really, when you take into account all the OTHER uses of said other skills that require additional skillpoints to work. Basing your logic purely on spell damage is a little narrowminded.



Ever heard of pre-emption? Same as anything else in UO. Why should dexers who have 0 skill points in magery be allowed a 15 damage lightning from their weapon that I cannot see coming until its hit me, or interupt despite they can do this whilst running?

0 SDI and cursed, with 120 eval: I hit myself for 16 with Lightning. When not cursed, I hit for 12. Not sure how it's narrowminded, since Supernovas are used for one thing: damage. How is 100 Alchemy/50 EP able to use something that can do as much damage as a Mage that invests 240 skill points and has an item property of their own (SDI) to boost damage?

Also, how is a hit spell even remotely comparable to Supernovas? Hit spell isn't even guaranteed to go off in the first place. It also requires that a weapon hit actually lands. Supernova doesn't require anywhere near that much effort or RNG. If a Nova isn't successfully used, 99% of the time it's because of player error. You can avoid the damage from Mages (interruption) and Dexers (RNG determines whether they hit or not, staying out of range, etc.) You literally CANNOT avoid a Supernova, unless you have Bushido. Even if you do have it, you already have to have Evasion active.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

0 SDI and cursed, with 120 eval: I hit myself for 16 with Lightning. When not cursed, I hit for 12. Not sure how it's narrowminded, since Supernovas are used for one thing: damage. How is 100 Alchemy/50 EP able to use something that can do as much damage as a Mage that invests 240 skill points and has an item property of their own (SDI) to boost damage?

Also, how is a hit spell even remotely comparable to Supernovas? Hit spell isn't even guaranteed to go off in the first place. It also requires that a weapon hit actually lands. Supernova doesn't require anywhere near that much effort or RNG. If a Nova isn't successfully used, 99% of the time it's because of player error. You can avoid the damage from Mages (interruption) and Dexers (RNG determines whether they hit or not, staying out of range, etc.) You literally CANNOT avoid a Supernova, unless you have Bushido. Even if you do have it, you already have to have Evasion active.

I mean, you most certainly can avoid a nova if you know its coming. You have to be within 5 tiles. So... run away from the radius and it won't hit you.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

So now that Moving shot and parry are getting a deserved nerf can we talk about how unnecessary these spell plague changes would be? Everyone was complaining about how parry mages have insane offense and defense well Mystics now have insane offense and insane defense.

Agreed. Buffing sleep. MM.. ok. Still going to be VERY powerful at 2 second sleeps. But spell plague too? why are we reverting back to the old way plague worked when everyone said it was too powerful?

 

[drcossack]

I mean, you most certainly can avoid a nova if you know its coming. You have to be within 5 tiles. So... run away from the radius and it won't hit you.

Fine. Then maybe the game should give you a hint that it's about to be used, the same as if it were an Explosion potion.

 

[CovenantX]

Agreed. Buffing sleep. MM.. ok. Still going to be VERY powerful at 2 second sleeps. But spell plague too? why are we reverting back to the old way plague worked when everyone said it was too powerful?

Get rid of supernova potions and spells can afford to get a +5-10% SDI boost and it'll make pvp much more fun, the whole reason moving shot was OP is because the only thing you could do to avoid it was have parry or RNG... If things like mystic get this buff, it's completely unnecessary if everyone's just going to combine it with alchemy (obv for supernovas). all about that burst.

Hahaha someone complaining about trapped boxes lololol.... Omg please learn to pvp

Make trap boxes do 20-30 damage per use regardless of tinkering level when crafted, problem solved.

on both sides attacker & user.
bad players rely on scripts to use a trap box, penalize them (I said this 4+ years ago in the old thread I made) lol I have the same opinion on everything that still applies.

I think it's funny when you say "Learn to Pvp" you don't even know what you mean by that...

 

[Gorath]

RE: Trapped boxes i'd like them to go since they can negate needing Resist + pots help too.

The only problem is the para gank (evil omen+paralyze) becomes prevalent again - What's the middle ground there?

 

[virem]

Maybe we should be staying on topic with just the current changes proposed?

 

[elster]

trap boxes do not negate resist. they negate one spell if you don't have resist. it's important to carry them even if you have resist.

 

[CovenantX]

trap boxes do not negate resist. they negate one spell if you don't have resist. it's important to carry them even if you have resist.

No one is debating that... Paralyze gets you killed, Mana vamp makes you run... Trap Boxes allow you to run with minimal consequence.

If people could see the bigger picture, none of this would even have to be said.

 

[elster]

No one is debating that... Paralyze gets you killed, Mana vamp makes you run... Trap Boxes allow you to run with minimal consequence.

If people could see the bigger picture, none of this would even have to be said.

Except somebody did say that.

 

[CovenantX]

Except somebody did say that.

You'r right, he did say that, but reading the rest of his post explains it more that it's not the same... you can still do things without mana see what he was saying? I know the guy didn't specify, he shouldn't have to, Anyone that pvp's should know these things...

Since you didn't quote him, I'll do it for you. *sigh*

I am not a fan of a cooldown. My preferred solution would be to remove trap boxes entirely and move on to the Anti Paralysis potions which were added specifically to break paralyze. Yet no one uses because of trapped boxes being broken.

Yes mana vamp is a drawback to running 0 resist but it is not a drawback to using a infinite charge trap box to break a paralyze.

Evil Omen + Para should be a powerful combination yet its negated by an infinite dart.
hitting with a paralyzing blow should be rewarding but yet again broken by a box.
paralyze fields are easily passed with a box.

I am not saying to remove a person's ability to break paralyze. But the fact that it can be done endlessly needs to be addressed. Consuming a potion is a perfect solution as if the player manages their resources poorly it could end up costing them in the end.

"I am not saying to remove a person's ability to break paralyze. But the fact that it can be done endlessly needs to be addressed."

The suggestion is meant to make people get better at the game instead of them simply being good by having an item.

 

[elster]

You'r right, he did say that, but reading the rest of his post explains it more that it's not the same... you can still do things without mana see what he was saying? I know the guy didn't specify, he shouldn't have to, Anyone that pvp's should know these things...

Since you didn't quote him, I'll do it for you. *sigh*





"I am not saying to remove a person's ability to break paralyze. But the fact that it can be done endlessly needs to be addressed."

The suggestion is meant to make people get better at the game instead of them simply being good by having an item.

Wasn't referring to that post

RE: Trapped boxes i'd like them to go since they can negate needing Resist + pots help too.

The only problem is the para gank (evil omen+paralyze) becomes prevalent again - What's the middle ground there?

 

[CovenantX]

Wasn't referring to that post

Ah, well, if there's no way to break paralyze, then yes, that would be a problem, because of omen-paralyze.. no one cares about "ganks", that's group pvp. you balance around group pvp and you get everyone playing the same templates (hence what we have now).

Either way. Trap Boxes being scripted because of very little to no damage taken via box is a problem, is it not?

 

[CovenantX]

SDI was not being applied to spell plague.

So instead of fixing it (i.e. making it so you need 15 SDI to hit current max spell damage) they decided to leave the spell damage and ADD the extra SDI. Giving it a huge and unnecessary boost. They toned down spell plague a long time ago and now they are buffing it right back up.

Hey, you know what? I said the same thing about Poisoning when the buffed poisoning up last time.... but it doesn't matter now, because everyone has Alchemy.

(said 4 years ago)

Consumables : people rely too heavily on these items, and some make pvp extremely annoying. increasing potion weight was not an effective solution IMO.

I also believe Potions were the main reason Poisoning was "improved" the last time, The thing is, Poisoing has been buffed the same exact way previous to the last changes (with the exception of the orange petal-free cure). these changes only make potions more reliant.

It's amazing how much of it still holds true today. and that was before shame-loot even came out...

 

[Great DC]

Mystic does NOT need inscribe to help it, it will do plenty of damage with the buff to plague and hail storm that's in testing now.

 

[Skalazar]

I would like to hear an argument on how an item that:

has no charges
has no delay
has no cooldown
and is not consumed on use is not broken. The little damage it does do could also be seen as a beneficial perk to the user.

Breaking a paralyze should be a situational decision not just an automatic reaction because there is no consequence not to.

I have been trying to think of any other on use item in the game that has as little drawback as a trapped box. Anyone know any?

 

[cobb]

Changing trapped Boxes is a horrible idea. NOBODY was complaining about them. It is not what is causing balance issues.

Let's please stick to discussing the proposed changes and not make things anymore complicated for the Devs.