Spin off from Thread: What would you like to see in the in game store?

[The Craftsman]

120 Magery <add to cart>
120 Taming <add to cart>
120 Imbuing <add to cart>
Server birth rare <add to cart>
1 billion gold <add to cart>

Since UO has gone easy mode over the years I figure why not. Plus they can test out the mechanics of it all for when a F2P shard opens.

 

[Kirthag]

with regard to the "game is already pay-to-win"

no, it isn't.

third party sellers are in profit for themselves, not BS, not EA - only themselves. their profits are not going back to the owners of the game to help with costs and development. that form of "pay-to-win" is not helping the game at all.

now, with BS wanting to bring this ability to buy all those origin-store items in game, it will be MUCH easier for them to target the third party sellers, and eradicate their activities - if not their accounts. it will mean more accountability, better tracking, and eventually a stoppage on third party selling activities. all it will take is simply data analysis (or a quick db search) to find certain things. theoretically, we could even purchase time-codes in this manner (a la WoW).

part one was removing gold/checks and making the bank-balances accountable
part two is limiting transaction access (removing the origin store)
part three is tracking activities
part four is clean up
part five is expanding on features


did it all the time with ecommerce projects i worked/contributed to.

 

[CovenantX]

That is assuming the devs are able to keep track of gold with the currency system already in-place.

So, what would happen to be the people that have hundreds of millions or even some-odd billions of gold mysteriously added to their account?
would it keep track of gold on vendors? I would assume it goes without any actions, the same way cheating players are handled (not at all).

I very highly doubt the devs went through the trouble of doing that, it would absolutely be worth it though.
I just hope this isn't the first step in making UO Free-to-Play, because if that isn't done right, the game is going to die within a few years or less.
(probably sooner than it would if nothing were changed at all from now til then).

It's kind of odd, that instead of going to origin store to buy an item code directly, you would instead buy a currency to then buy an item from the in-game store.
Mesanna did mention that account upgrade codes & game time codes would still be sold via the origin store. I'm not sure if this means they will be available on both the site and in-game store, or only origin store? (There's always a lack of specific details... )

This is off topic, so I'll leave it at that.

On topic though. I'd like to see something like this...

A deed that would make an antique item account bound and remove antique.

Although I think it should work with any "Negative" (Cursed, Brittle, Cannot be Repaired, Antique, Prized, Massive, or Unwieldy) Obviously once an item becomes account-bound, it's unable to be used by anyone not on that account. so it would remove all resale value. in doing so, would bring value to "naturally Clean" items, IF the inconsistency of powdering is ever fixed (jewelry). They'd essentially be the same thing as account-bound items, but trade-able and usable by anyone.

I do think such a deed should only be usable on items that have not taken any durability damage though.

 

[Kirthag]

But it is still pay to win. It doesnt matter which 'form' it is, as you put it. All P2W means is can you spent real life cash on the game in order to gain an advantage and 'win'. It doesnt matter where the money goes, its still pay to win. I'll grant that the game isnt designed to be pay to win, its the poor design which allows 3rd party sites to make the game pay to win, which you address below quite correctly.

In the world of ecomm, yes, it matters WHERE the money goes. The consumer doesn't care as s/he gets what was purchased, but the longevity of the site/program/app is drastically affected. Quit thinking so short and expand your thought process a bit hun.
Short term, the player is happy. But long term, the owner/publisher doesn't get the money, eventually they drop the site/program/app. Then player is sad for the game s/he enjoyed so much is gone. The third-party sellers are not happy, now they have to go find a new arena to apply their exploitation skills to - and most likely will be much harder to pull of as, yes, UO is still a studied model of virtual & micro economics (ask any geek going for their MBA in accounting).

Think about that for a bit. Who wins in the end?

 

[The Craftsman]

In the world of ecomm, yes, it matters WHERE the money goes. The consumer doesn't care as s/he gets what was purchased, but the longevity of the site/program/app is drastically affected. Quit thinking so short and expand your thought process a bit hun.
Short term, the player is happy. But long term, the owner/publisher doesn't get the money, eventually they drop the site/program/app. Then player is sad for the game s/he enjoyed so much is gone. The third-party sellers are not happy, now they have to go find a new arena to apply their exploitation skills to - and most likely will be much harder to pull of as, yes, UO is still a studied model of virtual & micro economics (ask any geek going for their MBA in accounting).

Think about that for a bit. Who wins in the end?

I agree. But thats not what I said ... you said it wasnt P2W, but it actually is.

Youre statement above is absolutely correct, but the fact is the game IS pay to win. Not by design, but by lack of design which caters to third party sellers.

All I was doing was refuting your statement that the game is not P2W, those other arguments are seperate and I agree with them.

 

[FrejaSP]

But it is still pay to win. It doesnt matter which 'form' it is, as you put it. All P2W means is can you spent real life cash on the game in order to gain an advantage and 'win'. It doesnt matter where the money goes, its still pay to win. I'll grant that the game isnt designed to be pay to win, its the poor design which allows 3rd party sites to make the game pay to win, which you address below quite correctly.

Yes but if BS sold gold and resources, it would be new gold/resources added to the game. Than't bad for the balance. When a reseller sell gold/resources, someone need to play the game to get the gold/resources for the reseller.
Now we do have a scripter problem, that need to be solved as scripters don't really play the game.

Sure you can use RL Cash, buy something like teleporters, forged metal tools, British ship or tokens and sell it for gold or trade it for resources but someone else do have to farm the gold/resources for you to pay to play. I find that much more healthy for the game than you buying directe from BS. BS still get the cash for the items you trade for gold/resources.

 

[Kirthag]

I agree. But thats not what I said ... you said it wasnt P2W, but it actually is.

Youre statement above is absolutely correct, but the fact is the game IS pay to win. Not by design, but by lack of design which caters to third party sellers.

All I was doing was refuting your statement that the game is not P2W, those other arguments are seperate and I agree with them.

Technically speaking, being the sandbox game it is, there is no end game so there is no "win".
I do not consider having all the rares/junk/stuff/neons/crap as a "win". Enjoying time with my friends is more a "win" for me - may that enjoyment incur my celtic wrath or not.

You are looking at this purely from a consumer's point of view, and I forgive you that, so I will be kind.

The P2W model is not a part of UO - as mentioned by others, someone has to actually farm the materials/resources/items/rares/junk/stuff/neons/crap with an expenditure of TIME.
In the P2W model, the Originator (read: game developer) creates the resources/gold/consumables from code at the instance of purchase with no investment of time by anyone other than the original work in writing the code, compiling the program, and applying the patch for such code to go into effect then the consumer taking the time to make the purchase, and waalaa - rare/consumable/gift/neon/crap/pixels are granted. To the participants, that transaction almost instantaneous. This actual is a critique of the Free-To-Play or "freemium" game model which EA is adopting... meaning the game itself is free, but you can purchase items (most times cosmetic or decoratives) with micro-transactions within the game.

Now, if BS totally adopts EA's direction with UO, THAT will hurt the game more than anything. Yes, in the beginning we will get a plethora of new players (via STEAM and maybe some marketing), and yes, by moving into that model the third-party guys will eventually be run out of business.... but it will totally change the soul of UO and that, I feel, will be the end of the game we all love to hate to love.

Third party sellers acquire their inventory not by code, but by farming IDOCs, stealing pixels from gullible players, or having "serfs & slaves" collect consumable resources for their separate and stand-alone businesses that are (presumably) not lining the coffers of the publisher/developers known as Electronic Arts and Broadsword.

Third party sellers are not generating their inventory with code programming. They have to do the same as any other player in the game - by grinding away, being devious, or a PKing mofo.

*clarification edit*
Over all this time - almost 20 years - I'm sure it seems the third-party-sellers are "generating code" to get their inventory, but they are actually selling gold generated by others in the game to get cash to buy legitimately created codes via the Origin Store which they then redeem in the game to turn around and sell to some player who spent countless hours earning the gold in game which is then sold for cash and the cycle continues.

BS is working to circumvent this by gaining control of the entire process. Refer to the list in my OP.


By definition NO - Ultima Online is not P2W. It is a subscription based "Pay-to-Play" business model being ravaged by players (aka third-party-sellers) taking advantage of the lack of design which BS is slowly getting control of without chasing away its base of honest players.

Do not confuse the third party sellers as being directly responsible for items being in game without spending precious time in gathering said items. Unless a third party seller has access to the source code with which to manipulate and instantaneously create items from thin air, that is impossible. I think BS and EA would have issue with a dev/staffer someone stealing their (meager) profits from this title. Knowing how big-business works, I'm pretty damned sure this topic is a rather heated one at EA/BS meetings.

 

[The Craftsman]

@Kirthag TLDR

 

[TimberWolf]

Kirthag are you actually naive enough to believe third party sites get all their gold for Idocs and farming sites?? Wrong it is by code....duped code! Sure some comes in the way you describe....but when a site sells Billions and Billions a day, every damn day 365 days a year. Yet the player base continually decreases yet their inventory doesnt change??? I am sorry.... I am not trying to be disrespectful,... I just cant swallow that much BS this early in the day....I will look back later...maybe it will be more palatable then.

 

[Kirthag]

@Kirthag TLDR

short version: NO IT ISN'T! NEENER! NEENER!

I go bed now. Girl got work in the morning.



Timberwolf:
If the third party sellers are still duping gold (meaning all those years of patches are worthless) then I'll eat my pixel hat.
My belief is more along the lines of 18+ years of hoarding, now they just recycle legit gold and do mass volume on the popular shards. I have family with totally legit vendors on atlantic with so much PLATINUM it makes me sick.

But then who am I but just another player wanting to keep her pixel addiction active for just a few more years, eh?

 

[Silent Singer]

Well, if we are going to go off the rails and discuss fixing the economy instead of items in store, I'd start with:

Make all EM drops server bound.

After playing my heart out at the new Legends time slot SPECIFICALLY PICKED BY THE SHARD to coincide with Atlantic's event, in hopes that the number of cross shard resellers would be reduced, I had an experience that had made me all but abandon prodo.

Getting one of my many rezzes, because I actually played the event, I watched to players on the periphery have a conversation about being at both the atl and legends event simultaneously (using multiple accounts) . They were laughing about it while they just sat and waited for the final boss.

They didn't participate in the event at all until that time. Then I noticed (because this event had an entirely separate rez area) other players doing the same. Several of the names were immediately recognizable. If you were to go read the rares forum you'd see a couple right away.

After the event, defeat of these folks got items. And poof, gone again until the next event, not to be seen on the shard.

For a long time I just shrugged this off as their playstyle and to each their own, but then I started paying attention to conversations here and realized how many of this same guys had third party stores or sold gold to third party stores. Events weren't even a way to collect items fit them, events were a way to make real world cash. When viewed in that light, myself and the folks participating in the event were doing the grunt work while they cashed in.

Once I started thinking like that I watched at the next event. There were a conspicuous number of toons named in a similar pattern, dressed in identical items, and performing the exact same activities at the exact same time during the event.

Want to fix our economy on prodo? Take away the major source of gold for the third party resellers by using shard bound tags, by either eliminating em items and just having the event, or by giving much higher drops (50+ offs).

Or go a step father. After one week, any EM event item created gets listed on the UO store, all with same flat cost. BS profits from pixels they are already created. Collectors get to finish their sets. Average players can get a memento of an event they particularly enjoyed no matter their level. It is a win for everyone.

 

[TimberWolf]

Pay2win exists in UO right now. There is nothing I cant buy from a third party site. When I am low on arrows do I go jack wood and farm harpies for feathers??....no I go spend 5$ for 60k. Would I prefer to buy it from a vendor....of course. Can I find any...of course not! If I wanted to play farmville I would play farmville... but I dont I want to play UO I want to attend events and fight bosses with my friends. I want to spawn, I want to raid...For me that is UO. So when I need something I buy it. I might macro train a new character to 90 or GM but after that I buy pinks. Cant find them in game, can always find them online. Cant afford them in game....can always buy more gold. I know I am not the only one that plays this way.

EA selling Sov's for cash keeps the money in EA....BS running a store that sets in game item prices gives them control over inflation and economy . The difference is all the Money stays in the UO generated revenue section of the balance sheet instead of in a third party's bank account.
Why do I care about this???? Do I think EA is going to invest all that "new" revenue back into UO?? Probably not, but I know they will invest more then a third party site does. And in the End when the VP finance sits down and decides what to fund next year and what to shut down. I want to see this money in EA's spreadsheet cause they decide whether to fund UO for another year or not!

 

[The Craftsman]

I would buy and pay for almost anything to decorate my castle. The bigger the better.

Deco and vanity items are all they should sell.

Two players start UO afresh on day one. One creates a character with the minimum starting skill points available. Another pays RL cash for an advanced/mythic character token, to EA. Immediately he has a headstart thanks to paying RL cash to EA. That is a P2W model in itself.

 

[The Craftsman]

You can stand upstairs Luna on ATL and watch the broker toons from this and other sites delivering 24/7. Seems to me the best way to kill two birds with one stone is for BS to capitalize on it and take the profit out of it for the 3rd parties.

Just to be clear, it will be EA who capitalise, not BS. BS are just the hired help.

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

Just to be clear, it will be EA who capitalise, not BS. BS are just the hired help.

Dunno if there is a way to know this is accurate as a fact. Sure, speculation says it is more than likely true, but in the agreement with EA BS could have a paragraph that says if they set up an in game store they keep the cash or part of the cash. Everything comes down to contract and I doubt any of us have read that.

 

[The Craftsman]

Dunno if there is a way to know this is accurate as a fact. Sure, speculation says it is more than likely true, but in the agreement with EA BS could have a paragraph that says if they set up an in game store they keep the cash or part of the cash. Everything comes down to contract and I doubt any of us have read that.

We can't of course know the full details of the contract agreement. But BS are the hired help. Contracting out in this fashion is standard practice and it is possible BS have some incentives built into the contract for either sub numbers or cash shop sales in the form or bonus or percentage based on a target. To think that EA doesn't take the lions share of these would be naive at best. And we all know that none or the EA profit goes back into the game ... It's used for other projects.

 

[Tyrath]

Dunno if there is a way to know this is accurate as a fact. Sure, speculation says it is more than likely true, but in the agreement with EA BS could have a paragraph that says if they set up an in game store they keep the cash or part of the cash. Everything comes down to contract and I doubt any of us have read that.

It stands to reason that in the contract there would be some form of profit division whether % or flat rate. Therefor it would be reasonable to assume that the more revenues generated overall would mean more profit for EA and more Resources for BS to work with and take profit from, hire more staff, improve the game etc. While I don't favor gold and resources being sold in game by BS, It needs to be acknowledged that those resources and gold are already being sold in game by 3rd parties in fairly large quantities and at considerable profit. If anyone is going to profit from these sales it should be EA/BS as then those revenues have the best chance of making back into maintaining and improving the game. If you want to get rid of the resource and gold script farming, the best way is to take the profit out of it for the people engaging in it.

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

If you want to get rid of the resource and gold script farming, the best way is to take the profit out of it for the people engaging in it.

I agree with you in theory, but to me, I doubt you ever really take the profit out enough to stop folks from doing it as well. I mean even if BS sold gold for a penny a mil the rmt folks would just drop their prices as well. Which would sadly just sky rocket the gold prices for things in game. In the long run.. free rl money from pixels is just that.. free money and even a dent in that free money is enough for some folks to keep on keeping on. Vicious cycle.. and one that is almost impossible to stop.

I say we scrap the entire gold system and start paying the Iron Price

*insert "come to Siege" comments below*

 

[Shane Douglas]

Friend of mine back in the day had 40 computers running in his garage running different scripts to farm different resources on different shards. They ran server up to server down when he would go out and reset them for another hard day of gaming. UO became less profitable and he moved on to more lucrative games to auto farm. But he made a impressive income from UO gold and resource farming. Why use $1 per day labor when you can auto run as many computers as you can afford to farm 23/7

I had originally imagined this back in the early years of the game and before I knew anything about scripting....I do recall always becoming frustrated when I would try engaging in conversation with another miner, not knowing it was a bot!

I did notice that the people scripting in blackthorns dungeon have disappeared in the last 2 months. they would be there server up to server down...very annoying.

 

[Mene (DF)]

Hmmm... sure it does... it does not go into detail about what will be in the store, but it does mention it.

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but...


Let me google that for you

WOW! So schön wurde einem Blindfisch ja noch nie geholfen .... und dann noch in der Muttersprache ....Danke

 

[Assia Penryn]

Oh, but I am endorsing gold sales. Unless they create a massive gold sink they need to be allowing a feasible way for returning players or new players a chance to even the odds. It's already happening and will continue to happen unless there is an alternative to combat it. At this point I don't see anything being realistic in combating the current economy unless they directly target gold sellers driving them out of the market.

Gold selling effects every aspect of the game; PVP/PVM/Collecting. I mean take a look at the 'collector's museums' and tell me how these people whom never attend events or if they do rarely get the drop, and yet have 'themed' displays?

I for one would be completely fine with a gold wipe, but that's just me.

I won't go any further in this discussion so this thread isn't derailed or cluttered with back and forth. There are many other opinions and ideas that need their voices heard.

I didn't have a "massive" collection, but it was respectable in its prime. I did not attend EM events and I have never bought gold. All my gold came from running vendors and being around for 18 years +.

I keep telling myself I'm going to start attending, but I hate the thought of grinding chars to compete and I really dislike the verbal nonsense that occurs at the events.

 

[MalagAste]

Well, if we are going to go off the rails and discuss fixing the economy instead of items in store, I'd start with:

Make all EM drops server bound.

After playing my heart out at the new Legends time slot SPECIFICALLY PICKED BY THE SHARD to coincide with Atlantic's event, in hopes that the number of cross shard resellers would be reduced, I had an experience that had made me all but abandon prodo.

Getting one of my many rezzes, because I actually played the event, I watched to players on the periphery have a conversation about being at both the atl and legends event simultaneously (using multiple accounts) . They were laughing about it while they just sat and waited for the final boss.

They didn't participate in the event at all until that time. Then I noticed (because this event had an entirely separate rez area) other players doing the same. Several of the names were immediately recognizable. If you were to go read the rares forum you'd see a couple right away.

After the event, defeat of these folks got items. And poof, gone again until the next event, not to be seen on the shard.

For a long time I just shrugged this off as their playstyle and to each their own, but then I started paying attention to conversations here and realized how many of this same guys had third party stores or sold gold to third party stores. Events weren't even a way to collect items fit them, events were a way to make real world cash. When viewed in that light, myself and the folks participating in the event were doing the grunt work while they cashed in.

Once I started thinking like that I watched at the next event. There were a conspicuous number of toons named in a similar pattern, dressed in identical items, and performing the exact same activities at the exact same time during the event.

Want to fix our economy on prodo? Take away the major source of gold for the third party resellers by using shard bound tags, by either eliminating em items and just having the event, or by giving much higher drops (50+ offs).

Or go a step father. After one week, any EM event item created gets listed on the UO store, all with same flat cost. BS profits from pixels they are already created. Collectors get to finish their sets. Average players can get a memento of an event they particularly enjoyed no matter their level. It is a win for everyone.

This is exactly right... They do it to sell the item for massive amounts of gold to get RL money. It's part of what is killing my love of the game... and sadly all the people that did want the item and did care about the work the EMs put into the event didn't get a drop and couldn't ever afford to buy one either.

The worst of all that is the rumors I keep hearing that those self same people standing there in the back are the ones doing some of the events on other shards and telling all the others when It's being done and what's dropping so they can all grab it up and make a profit as they have driven off many of the older EMs who focused more on story and less on items. But I guess that's all anyone cares about anymore is items and how much they are worth...

 

[kelmo]

Uhall is not a walk in the park. The Trolls are winning.

 

[Spartan]

Uhall is not a walk in the park. The Trolls are winning.

Just like Amtrak, derailments happen every so often. C'mon Kelmo ... ya gotta love it deep down in side!

 

[Uvtha]

No but you can buy stacks of 60k of every resource, uber suits, uber pets , gold by bil, character transfer tokens at 1/2 the price of the store, bless deeds by the stack, every artifact, endless stat and powerscrolls, every vet reward, 5.0 sots for every skill at atleast two of the 3rd party sales sites. And they have been offering these things for as long as I can remember. Those things are just a whole lot cheaper now days than they were a few years back. So yeah every aspect of the game has been pay to win. You might limit to only what the Origin store offers but there are several sites that offer everything the store does and at much lower prices, plus about 10,000 things the origin store doesn't.

Pay to win generally means that the game itself is charging you a fee for a competitive advantage, that isn't happening in UO. People selling stuff generated via gameplay isn't the same thing. The only issue is that some portion of those objects are duped or scripted. Otherwise it's just people playing the game, and selling the result of their time spent doing so. The game would still be played to get those rewards.

Giving people a proper channel to circumvent gameplay would only make the problem exponentially worse, and make those skills that produce those items all but redundant.

 

[Uvtha]

I agree. But thats not what I said ... you said it wasnt P2W, but it actually is.

Youre statement above is absolutely correct, but the fact is the game IS pay to win. Not by design, but by lack of design which caters to third party sellers.

All I was doing was refuting your statement that the game is not P2W, those other arguments are seperate and I agree with them.

It's misleading saying the game is pay to win. Thats a distinction meant for games with pay wall barriers. UO doesn't have those. Anyone can get any competitive item via gameplay. Well outside of the forged tool.

People selling items that can be generated with regular game play is different than pay to win.

I would also mention that the only thing you can really compete in in UO is pvp, and most people don't pvp. Pvm isn't competitive unless you count em events, and that's a lot more to do with luck/strategy than equipment.

 

[Uvtha]

It does appear people already have a proper way to circumvent gameplay and spend a lot of real $$$ already using it. The issue is that MOST of what is being sold is gained from exploits and dupes. Seriously do you think any of those 5 for $50 transfer tokens are legit, or the endless 60k ignot deeds for $1.50-$3.00 are legit, or the endless billions of brokered gold. On Siege it is not so much of a problem as we kill scripters on sight and yes a store selling resources and gold in the Siege environment would wreck Sieges economy. Overall on prodo shards I could only see it reducing the 3rd party brokers profits and putting more money into EA/BS pockets.

I can't say what percentage of things sold are due to exploits, but I am sure there are tons of things sold that are not. Obviously they should do all they can to stop exploits, but just flat out selling the items in question is just doubling down on the problem.

 

[Capt. Lucky]

It's absurd to not want gold/resources/pets or anything you can think of not in the in game store. I can buy any of that stuff now practically 24 hours a day. All I want. Truly unlimited. If I wanted 5 billion gold tomorrow it would be no problem. The ONLY thing that will keep this game going is EA making money. Don't give a rat's butt about economy arguments because if the economy being wrecked (laughs) or not will do nothing to save this game. Most absurd complaints I've ever heard. If EA actually went after all the gold sites it would be one matter. They don't, so it matters not in the least if EA sells gold or not other than EA would actually get the cash for it. The only thing that really matters if you want to walk this realm is how much cash EA is making. I honestly doubt it's all that much in the EA mind set. EA do you really want to really make money? Stop this 3 months of free game nonsense while paying for one. Now THAT'S nuts.

Anyway, I digress. That stupid concept of EA not selling anything they can make a buck off is so ridiculous it just grinds me. There is no limit on what you can buy now from resellers. The sky and your wallet are the only limits. I've actually asked people what their limit was. How much gold can you actually have in stock? It's basically unlimited. Before with checks there was a kind of ceiling, but not now.

Anyway my real answer is this. Just sell anything new. Let's not just pull old junk out of a hat and offer it over and over again. Lets actually see new stuff for sale. I'm not interested in old recycled junk. Want to sell a singing ball? At least give it a new name or something. Want a cool new ship painting? OK make it a limited item that might actually retain some cool factor over time. For sale this month only kinda thing. That's what I'd like to see. If they're just gonna recycle old stuff I don't see the point of bothering with it. Sell me shard shields, I'll buy a bunch of those Sell me tokens that will add a year to my account age. I'll buy those. I'll be impressed if they actually are able to entice me to buy anything having seen the way BS thinks. The players that are left have for the most part been here a long time, there's not a lot of stuff we don't already have if we really wanted it. They have a habit of drawing from the same old well over and over. Hopefully I'm wrong about this but I doubt it.

 

[The Craftsman]

This in game store would work brilliantly on a F2P shard. Add in house tokens ($200 for a castle, $120 for a keep, $80 for a large tower etc etc) along with gold and resources and you could throw up a F2P shard tomorrow with little or no effort. Only thing that would need to be changed is that you can only place a house with a bought token. EA would make money as lots of folk not prepared to sub will pay for extras.

 

[Uvtha]

This in game store would work brilliantly on a F2P shard. Add in house tokens ($200 for a castle, $120 for a keep, $80 for a large tower etc etc) along with gold and resources and you could throw up a F2P shard tomorrow with little or no effort. Only thing that would need to be changed is that you can only place a house with a bought token. EA would make money as lots of folk not prepared to sub will pay for extras.

It would certainly make more sense, and feel more palatable, I'll tell you that.

 

[The Craftsman]

The more I think about it the more this system lends itself to a F2P shard rather than the current subscription model shards.

Create 6 new F2P shards
2 east coast
2 west coast
2 europe

Each pair should 1 PvE shard and 1 PvP shard (ie no trammel/felluca, each shard purely PvE or PvP on every land mass)

Remove from the game :
powerscrolls
SoTS
statscrolls
House placement tools

Sell in the in game store (buyable with sovereigns) tokens for:
Powerscrolls
Statscrolls
SoTS
Soulstone fragments (no soultones)
House deeds (priced according to size, customizable houses have limited tilesets)
Housing storage increase tokens (10% increase per token)
Housing tile sets
All deco and vanity items that are currently in game
All vet rewards that are currently in the game (with the exception of shard shields)

No gold sold by store
No resources sold by store

Allow all tokens to be tradable.

Allow no transfer to or from a F2P shard. Delete the entire account (characters items and houses in their entirety) if no log in for 90 days.


They'd make a fortune and you'd have busy shards with a playstyle of your choice, with the current prodo shards unaffected so those with their billions of gold and hoarded pixel crack can carry on without having the great unwashed free for all hordes spoiling their shard.

 

[Yadd of Legends]

Stop this 3 months of free game nonsense while paying for one. Now THAT'S nuts.

Actually it makes sense. I have house accounts on 2 extra shards only because I can buy a game code for each of those accounts every 3 months. If I had to pay every month, I would not have those 2 house accounts, because it's not worth that much to me. So by allowing me to buy a game code for those 2 accounts every 3 months, EA gets about $10 a month from me that they would not get otherwise.
Now I don't use this option on my other 3 accounts where I have houses. I consider those my main shards/houses and pay for them 6 months a time, with no free months. Because I consider them worth it and want to support the game as I can.
But I imagine your concern is those who pay only every 3 months even on their main accounts. That could be happening for 2 reasons.
1. Those players don't think the game is worth paying for every month but worth the price of paying every 3 months. In those cases, as in the argument above, EA is getting something from those players instead of nothing by allowing them to pay every 3 months.
2. Those players who could pay every month but think why should they if they can get away with paying only every 3 months. I think of these players as not very committed to supporting the game, so they also are ones from which EA should be glad they're getting something instead of nothing. Those of us who want to support the game pay every month where we think it's worth it to us
So the conclusion: Players are paying what they think the game is worth to them, and EA is getting the support players think the game deserves. It's really a tacit admission that for most of us with little disposable income, $15 or so a month is too much for this game, especially for those who have houses on multiple shards. We pay what we can afford and what we think the game is worth. That's the reality of it, and to change it now would be a loss for EA.

 

[Capt. Lucky]

I don't think that IS the only thing that matters and I think that's a short sighted point of view. You directly claim you don't care what negative effect selling in game items would have on the game, so long as it kept the game running (ignoring the fact that there's no reason to believe the game is in need of this supposed influx to keep going). It's like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Ruin the game, ok, so long as it's still here to see, ruined.

They shouldn't sell anything you can regularly get in game. It defeats the purpose of the game existing. They can make new item shop ****, if they must, so long as it's non-functional, because charging one to access functional items would indeed start to make UO a "pay to win game" (I guess, though it's not really since there's almost no competition for anything) which on top of a monthly subscription is just terribly off putting.

Everything you say is exactly how it is now but you choose to bury your head in false logic. There's kids in China right now watching 20 monitors on 5 different games creating all the gold anyone wants. If the UO gold gets a little low then 5 monitors go from WOW to UO lol. Everything you say would happen happened 15 years ago. That barn door has been open forever. The only difference is does EA get the cash for it or some gold site. The only thing that changes is who makes the profit off it. These arguments about selling anything you can go buy on the internet anytime you want is total nonsense. The game IS pay to win if you want. Been that way forever. Only difference is does EA get the cash and hopefully keeps the lights on or does a 3rd party site get the cash? Total nonsense to act like this would be in any way a new thing. If EA actually went after 3rd party sites and shut them down, okay, maybe you got a point. The game is already "ruined" if you wish to think of it that way, it's just EA doesn't get the cash. There's people posting on these boards right now that make a nice coin off UO, and that's probably the ones screaming the loudest.

 

[Capt. Lucky]

You don't and you're not, as I have demonstrated. EA comes out ahead, so you're paying for nothing on my behalf.

Yup you mooch off my dime. EA would make a ton of money fixing this exploit. People act like they won't pay but they will. They won't give up their precious pixels. I'm sure you'd find a new way to exploit the system so I wouldn't be too concerned. If I was that broke I couldn't come up with 20 bucks for a game every month I think I'd go to school and learn a trade or get an extra shift at McDonald's. Get a little respect for yourself.

 

[Eärendil]

 

[Yadd of Legends]

Yup you mooch off my dime. EA would make a ton of money fixing this exploit. People act like they won't pay but they will. They won't give up their precious pixels. I'm sure you'd find a new way to exploit the system so I wouldn't be too concerned. If I was that broke I couldn't come up with 20 bucks for a game every month I think I'd go to school and learn a trade or get an extra shift at McDonald's. Get a little respect for yourself.

Don't patronize me with talk of self-respect, please. That's a childish low blow that shows the weakness of your position. I give up. It's like arguing with Ayn Rand, were she still alive, which thankfully she is not.
BTW, my houses are solely for crafting ingredients, which allows me to play on shards I would not otherwise play on, which is good for the game. I don't keep a castle just to collect pixels.
Finally, by definition a feature designed into the system and that's been in place for 15 years cannot be called a system exploit.

 

[TimberWolf]

No, billions and billions are for sale! doesn`t mean they`re selling these billions everyday. Again, 18 years of back and forth will give you these insane amounts of gold... doesn`t mean it`s duped

No Billions and Billions are sold every day...just trust me on that one. It is not a secret

 

[kelmo]

No Billions and Billions are sold every day...just trust me on that one. It is not a secret

 

[The Craftsman]

Yup you mooch off my dime. EA would make a ton of money fixing this exploit.

Completely false. People who play the 90 day shuffle are scraping by paying the minimum to keep a house standing. Take that away and they close accounts and EA gets nothing and would lose money. Do you really think that if EA were confident that they would make more money from fixing this "bug/feature" then they wouldnt do it. Youre simply wrong in this matter.

 

[The Craftsman]

Completely irrelevant and blatant post count building, yet again. You should be infractioned for this bull.

 

[kelmo]

You are just no fun at all. I thought that was hilarious! Gosh! Uhall is a pretty tough room now. *goes to check for no fun on the forum rules*

 

[Lord Frodo]

Yup you mooch off my dime. EA would make a ton of money fixing this exploit. People act like they won't pay but they will. They won't give up their precious pixels. I'm sure you'd find a new way to exploit the system so I wouldn't be too concerned. If I was that broke I couldn't come up with 20 bucks for a game every month I think I'd go to school and learn a trade or get an extra shift at McDonald's. Get a little respect for yourself.

He is paying for 3 main accounts every 6 months and only uses the 90 day to have a few accounts for housing only so EA is making more from him because he stated that just for a house only account it is not worth the money to do 6 mo payments. If you use the 90 day payment then you are not playing UO really as you would only play 1 month out of 4.

 

[kelmo]

That is totally on topic. We are discussing billions of gold being sold. Out of drive thru fast food windows.

 

[kelmo]

I would like to see the receipts... +1

 

[Uvtha]

Everything you say is exactly how it is now but you choose to bury your head in false logic. There's kids in China right now watching 20 monitors on 5 different games creating all the gold anyone wants. If the UO gold gets a little low then 5 monitors go from WOW to UO lol. Everything you say would happen happened 15 years ago. That barn door has been open forever. The only difference is does EA get the cash for it or some gold site. The only thing that changes is who makes the profit off it. These arguments about selling anything you can go buy on the internet anytime you want is total nonsense. The game IS pay to win if you want. Been that way forever. Only difference is does EA get the cash and hopefully keeps the lights on or does a 3rd party site get the cash? Total nonsense to act like this would be in any way a new thing. If EA actually went after 3rd party sites and shut them down, okay, maybe you got a point. The game is already "ruined" if you wish to think of it that way, it's just EA doesn't get the cash. There's people posting on these boards right now that make a nice coin off UO, and that's probably the ones screaming the loudest.

I disagree. First of all, I really doubt there are many people scripting for gold, with inflation as it is? How many ogre lords would you have to kill even 24/7 to make a million gold? Why do that when an enterprising person could easilly make 100x that in a single day with minimal effort merchanting? Not to mention the fact that UO gold sells for next to nothing because the userbase is so low, it simply wouldn't be worth someones time to script monster hunting. Secondly, third party sites are not used by most, and probably unknown to many. They are kinda sketchy. Now if I could get all that stuff securely directly from BS, and they tell everyone about it... it will happen soooo much more often., and the impact on actual game play will be potentially much much higher. Thirdly, you clearly decry the practice, so you solution is to... do it more often. Since in your eyes the game was ruined by buying items how on earth could ramping up that practice help the game? Sure BS might get a few more grand a month, but the game could suffer so much that it might become much less appealing to a lot of people.

You keep saying "pay to win" but you aren't using the term correctly. By your standards any and EVERY game ever made where people can trade equipment is "pay to win" because you can pay someone for an item they have. What you are asking for isn't even pay to win in the truest sense, but it IS a step much closer than UO has ever been. Pay to win is putting something behind a pay wall that can only be gained by paying for it. That is what "pay to win" means. That is not what is happening in UO. Third party sites selling items is not "pay to win" because everyone has the same access to those items (baring EM even items where have no effect on any potential competitive gameplay) and no one must pay to get them.

Again with the "keep the lights on" stuff. There is no indication that the game is in danger of being shut down due to lack of funds. Even with hardly any people this game could run forever and turn a profit. It's not even in zombie mode yet. I for one think that if the game can't sustain itself with a monthly sub then it either needs to go free to play or just shut down due to lack of interest. The sub rate would need to be under 5k or something for the situation to be that dire, and honestly why keep it going with so few people? You could find more active free shards, or run your own for you and 100 of your current UO friends.

 

[Uvtha]

Completely false. People who play the 90 day shuffle are scraping by paying the minimum to keep a house standing. Take that away and they close accounts and EA gets nothing and would lose money. Do you really think that if EA were confident that they would make more money from fixing this "bug/feature" then they wouldnt do it. Youre simply wrong in this matter.

I wish you well as you embark into this argument. It won't be fun.

 

[Capt. Lucky]

Don't patronize me with talk of self-respect, please. That's a childish low blow that shows the weakness of your position. I give up. It's like arguing with Ayn Rand, were she still alive, which thankfully she is not.
BTW, my houses are solely for crafting ingredients, which allows me to play on shards I would not otherwise play on, which is good for the game. I don't keep a castle just to collect pixels.
Finally, by definition a feature designed into the system and that's been in place for 15 years cannot be called a system exploit.

There is a very old system put into place to help our troops over seas that might not able to keep track of their accounts while they were in battle. You are exploiting a system in a way it was not intended. And your 20 bucks a couple of times a year I don't care about. It's the fact that these handful of exploiters started embracing an exploit which is now well known and expanding. Now you have 1000's of good people that would pay for the resources they're using and stealing from others. But now it's, HEY! Why should I be a sucker and pay full price when I can get a 75% discount? It's embraced by this dev team! Thus the sickness spreads and EA loses millions. The game shuts down, we don't get the size of Dev Team we could have had. I will admit the REAL cause of this problem is BS being gutless and not addressing this exploit. This exploit spreads because they don't have a strong logical person in charge who is able to make a right decision. BS gets swayed by a handful of exploiters when with a quick fix the money could be rolling in. How many dev teams would slap their full time players in the face and back the exploiters? Insane.... and selling gold at the in game store would ruin the game? People think that's a problem? LOL

 

[Dot_Warner]

Do we really have to debate the 90 day cycle AGAIN?

 

[Capt. Lucky]

Completely false. People who play the 90 day shuffle are scraping by paying the minimum to keep a house standing. Take that away and they close accounts and EA gets nothing and would lose money. Do you really think that if EA were confident that they would make more money from fixing this "bug/feature" then they wouldnt do it. Youre simply wrong in this matter.

I explained in the above post why your wrong. Pay your way, don't mooch off the rest of us.

 

[Capt. Lucky]

Do we really have to debate the 90 day cycle AGAIN?

Yes! Mesanna told me this would be looked into and be addressed. So it's time for her to quit telling everyone what they want to hear and actually do something.