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Why new people wont play Ultima Online

Cymidei

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Okay if its all about the graphics then PLEASE explain why Mine Crack...err...Mine Crap...sorry Mine Craft is so popular?
Those graphics are kinda weird and sorta ugly. I mean Super Mario Bros. looked great in 8 bit, but Mine Craft, yuck.
6 reasons why 'Minecraft' is so incredibly popular

That's why :) so short and gets it all right. Minecraft has a lot in common with UO, especially the old school UO. Example, you die, you lose your inventory only you get much more freedom and creativity. You can script, you can make working computers, build anything you can imagine.
 
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Aran

Always Present
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This is the God's HONEST truth right here! Go google any internet harassment, bullying, or stalking case it always , ALWAYS comes down to this right here. Take this case for example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Megan_Meier


Make sure and read the cited pages. The adult woman who was responsible for the fake Myspace , thought what she was doing was fine because it was the internet and she was anonymous. Its sick. The real truth is you ARE NOT anonymous on the internet, this from a Professor of computer science and a friend that recently got his Masters in IT security. Let's not forget "Big Brother" is always watching you. So be careful because your crap can come home to roost.
Yeah, no one is anonymous online, anyone can find exactly who you are, where you live, your relatives, your school, anything. Anything.
 

Sellingahouse

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how about when a new player starts it flashes across your screen something like Uo lets give a warm welcome to Beth, the new blacksmith.
That way everyone knows we have a new player that wants to be a blacksmith and other blacksmiths can help her. I think this game would be very hard for any new player that didn't already know someone playing.
 

Smoot

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UO is really the perfect casual game. you can play for 5mins or 5hours.

if this were a free browser game (SAME GRAPHICS) we would most likely have players in the millions. It would be making big bucks from in game items&add ons you could buy like deco, houses, rare buy-only novelty pets etc.
 

Angel of Sonoma

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...When I started playing uo back in 1997 the graphics were ok. And there is possibly some nostalgic attitude. A new player wont likely think this way. The same goes for the game itself. Its a game that's far away from perfection ( in modern term) but the potential and complexity it has established in this long time is nearly endless and no damn game in these 18 years since release of uo could compete with this ultimate complexity. But exactly this is the next thing newplayers will barely be able to handle.
The worst way broadsword could go for is to cut this complexity in favor for new players. If that would be the case many many existing players (incl. me) would probably leave.
this is exactly why i think EA should release a pared down console version of the game. give new players the basics of the game but not the whole overly complicated version. i think this exposure could bring in new subs.

The goal should be to specifically aim for returning players and to maintain the present player base. A very very very big fault is giving existing players the feeling to be left alone and to implement changes noone understands. Also a solid communication about gameplay changes is necessary so we all can play this great game for several more years.
the people that i know who played UO in years past have no desire to return. some now have different priorities. some hate the item based pvp.
 

Aran

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They don't even keep the PC version of the game properly maintained and you want them to do a CONSOLE port? Hahahahaha
 

Uvtha

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this is exactly why i think EA should release a pared down console version of the game. give new players the basics of the game but not the whole overly complicated version. i think this exposure could bring in new subs.
So basically make a completely different seperate game is what you are asking for. It's just not a realistic request.
 

Uvtha

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They don't even keep the PC version of the game properly maintained and you want them to do a CONSOLE port? Hahahahaha
I honestly don't know that a port would even be technically possible. Even if so, playing this game with a controller? It would be completely non-functional.
 

Smoot

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So basically make a completely different seperate game is what you are asking for. It's just not a realistic request.
not un-realistic to be done, but as i didnt play the game i have no idea why it wasnt continued. i remember it being popular for a time but never played it and dont know the finances behind it. if i had to guess its cancellation most likely had to do with Mythic being dissolved.

Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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kelmo

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How about an introductory single player game. Using all the art, menus and geography of UO. Allow the exploration of the things UO has to offer. Crafting, exploration, house design and/or deco all spring to mind. Create this game with the ability to import the character over to UO.
 

Lord Arm

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I always felt the f2p shards infringed on copy rights but what do I know. now about new players, there is no real/good step by step handbook to get players started. there is so much to know. the best way to keep new players is invite them to guild and have a vent/ts/mumble chat. so much easier to help. I hate typing lol. some people really help a lot of new players. others see them as future competition. most new players leave cause they don't know what to do, people don't want to take the time to help, they find out they have to pay all this extra money for upgrade to do everything, on some shards, there's nothing on venders to buy stuff they need etc...

so many small things that could use a revamp of some type, this one new player made an archer, had 50 arrows and 50 aides to start. when he ran out of arrows and went to buy some more, they were so expensive he ended up with no money and no arrows lol. seems like someone goes around and buys up arrows daily until it reaches a certain price but I don't know. I told him I got some money for ya. he said never mind, logged and was never seen again. maybe arrows need a set price.

what about vet players, ive seen a lot leave when something they like to do and can make some money from doing, gets destroyed. or when u spend a lot of money on something, then is given out like candy and/or is made worthless.

I guess I don't need to talk about the account set up payment system, uo store, cheating etc....

but if u really think about it, this game is amazing. so much to do/know.
 
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Uvtha

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not un-realistic to be done, but as i didnt play the game i have no idea why it wasnt continued. i remember it being popular for a time but never played it and dont know the finances behind it. if i had to guess its cancellation most likely had to do with Mythic being dissolved.

Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In terms of making a game to essentially advertise UO, it's light years from being realistic. For them to come up with a completely different game using the Ultima brand? Not at all unrealistic.
 

Uvtha

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How about an introductory single player game. Using all the art, menus and geography of UO. Allow the exploration of the things UO has to offer. Crafting, exploration, house design and/or deco all spring to mind. Create this game with the ability to import the character over to UO.
Can I import my UO character to the single player version?? :p
 

Flagg

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My experience is opposite OP. Almost everybody still playing UO is at least on their 30's now. Almost everybody knows new players make a rare, valuable commodity game is sorely missing.

As result, I sometimes feel genuine newbie gets borderline uncomfortable measures of kindness and attention! He/she is certain to find plenty of people very happy to explain things.


UO is not getting any new people because it is an ancient game from dawn of the Internet. It has no appeal to people in general. It almost always requires history and/or fond memories of UO to see it's appeal. Those who lack either see the thought of paying monthly sub fee out of it as madness. For almost all modern gamers, idea appears no different to paying monthly fee for playng Space Invaders.
 

Cymidei

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Ok here's an idea, make a trial account and role-play a newbie or get a new person to join. Post the responses you get from your shard. I am always trying to get my friends from other games to try UO but none of them seem to stick around for very long before they go back to their other game. There's something to what Flagg is saying.

A friend of mine who likes a certain HORRIBLE Chinese browser game was baffled by why I like Ultima Online. He acted like I was obsessed with a rotary phone or something...sad because the terrible Chinese browser game he likes had shiny graphics but no-skill game play. I think a lot of people just like easy games that don't challenge them and give them a cheap dopamine rush.
 
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MalagAste

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I still think they should make a F2P shard where folk could start out it would have the basics... Trammel, Lost Lands and Illsh. They can gain skills and such up to 89.9 have a 7x7 house (Pay for a 12x12 if they want to upgrade)... and have limited storage and such. And only 3 characters. There are no artifacts there and none of the "new" loot... but they can have 1 bod per day etc... Then should they decide they want more they can go the paid route and can port over to regular UO but they can only take with them 1m gold, items... up to 1k.... so they couldn't take 60k of boards, ingots (which at 89.9 would not include the high end ores and such)... and their stuff as well as the characters.

Would give them a taste of UO... like UO Lite... If they then want the new lands, artifacts, Fel, other skills like Ninjitsu, Bushidio, Imbuing, Gargoyles, elves etc..... they can pay.
 

Uvtha

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Ok here's an idea, make a trial account and role-play a newbie or get a new person to join. Post the responses you get from your shard.
I used to have an alt that I RPed pretty strictly, and that had nothing to do with my other character in any way. So everyone assumed when I started the character that I was new to Siege, and pretty much everyone was falling over themselves to offer me a hand when I showed in in chat. Though I politely declined, people were making every effort to be helpful to what they assumed was a new player. Siege is pretty much always like that, everyone is psyched to see a new face, even the reds offer helpful advice in Gchat sometimes.

I can't speak for the other shards.
 

Uvtha

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I still think they should make a F2P shard where folk could start out it would have the basics... Trammel, Lost Lands and Illsh. They can gain skills and such up to 89.9 have a 7x7 house (Pay for a 12x12 if they want to upgrade)... and have limited storage and such. And only 3 characters. There are no artifacts there and none of the "new" loot... but they can have 1 bod per day etc... Then should they decide they want more they can go the paid route and can port over to regular UO but they can only take with them 1m gold, items... up to 1k.... so they couldn't take 60k of boards, ingots (which at 89.9 would not include the high end ores and such)... and their stuff as well as the characters.

Would give them a taste of UO... like UO Lite... If they then want the new lands, artifacts, Fel, other skills like Ninjitsu, Bushidio, Imbuing, Gargoyles, elves etc..... they can pay.
That shard idea sounds more appealing to me than a regular prodo shard heh.
 

Angel of Sonoma

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remember the old saying "you've got to spend money to make money"? well that's part of the problem. EA doesn't want to spend money on advertising. and i firmly believe the game will not grow membership if they don't take any action. all these ideas of creating UO lite as a browser game, console game, new shard, etc are all viable.

edit: i forgot to mention putting the game on Steam. this can only help.
 
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kelmo

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I think some sort of introductory free game might be a way to reach out to a new generation of players. UO has such a broad appeal to so many different play styles. UO light on a free test server maybe. I just think a tutorial that is entertaining and enlightening might be worth a thought.

All the same stuff. Less leading by the hand. A whole world to explore and you can take it to a whole new level if you wish to subscribe.
 

Hannes Erich

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I think these are neat ideas y'all have. But the art of making suggestions is all about keeping them feasible. There are so many wonderful ideas we could pluck out of the sky, but how many of them are feasible? I've been called one of the most naive optimists on the planet. So it's bad when somebody like me has to point out that these ideas aren't feasible. I doubt Broadsword knows enough about the server source to separate out all the spaghetti code that would differentiate UO from "UO lite". They've told us this before on the heels of comparatively timid requests. The team that programmed this game was filled to the brim with absent-minded geniuses. Idealistic, driven, smart, and utterly disorganized. You could smell it in interviews and it has been proven by retrospectives. Source documentation is an oft-cited problem by MMO studios less than half UO's age. What do you think the grandfather of them all looks like?

Even if they knew where to flip the switches to make it happen, EA is never going to foot the bill. Everybody here knows it. Every Ultima franchise project after Ultima VIII except for the classic production shards and client has turned out to be a financial failure by EA's estimation. Even the Enhanced Client was essentially the hope that Kingdom Reborn could be saved by a lobotomy. It's really only the GUI and Pinco's that its users can't live without. Maybe UO2 or UOX would have broken that cycle, but we'll never know.

Even as somebody who still enjoys UO, I would not see any business sense in milking it beyond expansions of TOL's scope or smaller (probably the latter). Personally, I think UO might have experienced a third mini-golden age if "Kingdom Reborn" had only been high-res classic graphics and an updated user interface. UO will not do well on Steam (and will probably never arrive there), because while the CC's retro graphics are actually, probably a bigger sell right now, that trend doesn't include retro UIs and never will. Neither client has completely what it would take and I suspect EA marketing is aware of that.

A sequel might be feasible and worth the risk, if it were made for another generation of players (i.e. not us).
 
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Hannes Erich

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Oh and bugs. I guess everybody here wants them to stop working on bugs and make UO lite instead. :tongue:

Five devs folks. Five.
 

kelmo

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The devs do not have to build UO lite. An intern would do. Nothing new is being invented.
 

MalagAste

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That's what I'm saying and if it becomes super popular and gains a bunch of new subscribers it might be worth it to copy it and make 3 or 4 such shards. But I always thought it was worth a try and wouldn't hurt the economy of current shards.


My big beef with F2P would be hurting the economy of current paid shards ..... but if they are on separate servers it can't really effect the economy and if they can't bring over tons of "free" labor produced wares then I think it might be really nice.. and to move over they'd have to pay so it wouldn't really be bad for the economy of the game... and to give them a free shot and testing out the game and learning some of the basics.... i think it might be very appealing.

Perhaps we could be "advisers" there but couldn't have a real character that could get anything on a paid server from there.
 

Hannes Erich

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F2P could either rejuvenate or damn UO. The industry has lots of examples of both. If your game is hobbling but otherwise healthy and not dying, F2P might be an unnecessary risk. Hybrid models are a thing too, but no one can control whether subscribers will dump their subs en masse = risk. Common complaints under both are that hardly anything gets fixed; prior content typically doesn't get fleshed out; it's all about injecting the cash shop with a steady supply of new shinies; if vanity items don't keep profits steady, there's no where else to go but items that provide advantages. The in-game economy, PvP and PvM balance, all of that is secondary to the studio's obligations to the publisher.

The conversion could take a lot of work, too, probably no less than several months. Nobody does it just for the helluvit. I don't think Broadsword will ever do it unless forced to, and the risk of it all probably scares them (i.e. job stability). They've said before that it's not in the cards. I kinda suspect we'll see shinies if a cash shop comes around anyway, and those shinies are likely to be less cheap than under a F2P model, and fewer and farther between; but they're somewhat less likely to upset game balance.

UO is a great game, it still deserves a lot of TLC, but it's almost 20 years old and nobody is making AAA plans for it except for forum posters.
 

Ender

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Subscription fee
Graphics
General chat is either quiet or full of people acting like children
Player economy is absurd at this point (new characters start with 1000 gold and get most likely double digit gold per kill but may see items with 7 zero prices)
And complexity of actually playing the game
 

Ender

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I still think they should make a F2P shard where folk could start out it would have the basics... Trammel, Lost Lands and Illsh. They can gain skills and such up to 89.9 have a 7x7 house (Pay for a 12x12 if they want to upgrade)... and have limited storage and such. And only 3 characters. There are no artifacts there and none of the "new" loot... but they can have 1 bod per day etc... Then should they decide they want more they can go the paid route and can port over to regular UO but they can only take with them 1m gold, items... up to 1k.... so they couldn't take 60k of boards, ingots (which at 89.9 would not include the high end ores and such)... and their stuff as well as the characters.

Would give them a taste of UO... like UO Lite... If they then want the new lands, artifacts, Fel, other skills like Ninjitsu, Bushidio, Imbuing, Gargoyles, elves etc..... they can pay.
A F2P option just should not be nearly that limited, that's almost like a bait and switch. Some poor ******* tries that out, thinks he's figured the game out and then gets blindsided after coughing up cash and finding out basically nothing he's done or learned so far is worth a damn.
 

Skalazar

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UO should put up a F2P Mondain's Legacy shard.

Honestly it was the perfect balance of the game and for alot of players it's all they'd ever need. It would require minimal maintenance outside of bug fixes and would actually have a balanced economy. Then EA/Broadsword can focus on continuing production of the game for subscription servers. But having a F2P legacy shard would atleast get new players playing UO and old veterans returning so atleast when a new expansion launches there is an audience that could be intrigued enough to subscribe and check it out.
 

TimberWolf

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unfortunately F2P will be a last resort...by which time nothing will save UO so then the nay sayers will win and can say F2P killed UO
 

Sovrano

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i came back to UO because it runs great on work computers. I started replaying a lot of older games I stopped having time for because they run well on laptops and tablets (fallout 2, BG era). Fun way to pass the time. So, I think UO's strength is it being old and if they want new players maybe try getting it on tablets?
 

Lord Frodo

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After that the first thing out of their mouths is always "THOSE 2D GRAPHICS ARE A COMPLETE JOKE". And they usually completely shut out any other response I try to make about why you can over look the graphics.
Translation This game is way to complicated it makes my brain hurt just to think about it. I can't admit that I can't handle it so I will just trash the graphics.
 

Lord Frodo

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F2P is so easy but UO refuses to do it. Just remove the 15 day timer on Trial Accounts but keep the current restrictions.
 

Merlin

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Translation This game is way to complicated it makes my brain hurt just to think about it. I can't admit that I can't handle it so I will just trash the graphics.
No - they legit don't like the graphics. And neither do I - in either EC or CC. I find it hard to believe anyone plays this game for the graphics. Anytime someone uses words like 'nostalgia' to describe their affinity for UO graphics I roll my eyes.
 

Deep Ellum Dan

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this post needs to die. lets stop posting here since the title is subjective and no in a positive aspect in recruiting new players. I would love to tell any new player to come here and read about everthing , but i feel it might make them run away and not play UO.
 

Hawkke

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As a new player to UO 3-4 months in i beleive the major problem for new players is the is the difficulty starting out. The game is great once you realize all the options, play styles and things to do available to you, but for the new guy just logging in to see what its all about all he or she really sees is a little island (haven) with tons of skill options and no idea what skills go with what or where to start. Also hes no where near being able to do anything worthwhile without alot of grinding and raising skills. Maybe some things like a couple new player (young)champ spawns and such on haven would help or some low level monsters that drop arrows for young players only. The spawns would also encourage them to form groups with players around there skill lvl. That way they can have a lil fun while raising skills and maybe not be as overwhelmed by all the grinding. About the older players,i have to say have all been very helpful to me, i haven't really experienced any negative reactions to me asking questions about the game and seems like theres always someone on atlantic willing to help out.
 

Deep Ellum Dan

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ok wait what?
After reading this post, I do agree we need a new "companion program" - but we really do not.! From a previous post, if any of us recruits a new player, it shoudl be that toon's responsibilty to adequately train them
 

Dot_Warner

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this post needs to die. lets stop posting here since the title is subjective and no in a positive aspect in recruiting new players. I would love to tell any new player to come here and read about everthing , but i feel it might make them run away and not play UO.
Most posts are subjective unless they relate game mechanics as-is without editorializing. Also, "positivity" itself rather subjective.

ToL is worthy of some positivity; however, you can't ignore the fact that both it's release and Pub 91 were (and in most cases, still are) fraught with fairly annoying issues. The lack of dev communication over the last ~20 days hasn't helped either. Lack of communication dooms any relationship.

The glitter rainbows and piles of fluffy kittens/puppies sleeping in cute poses that some people here want to be the status quo isn't a realistic representation of UO, or of the internet in general. Positivity towards positive game advancements is fine and great, but don't expect unwarranted obsequiousness from players as the game/community continues to degrade due to the litany of faceplam-worthy, easy-to-fix issues that are constantly ignored.

if any of us recruits a new player, it shoudl be that toon's responsibilty to adequately train them
No. The game needs an NPE that stands on its own and gives a new player the basics of the game in a coherent manner. Expecting paying customers to hand hold newbies isn't going to fly. Having tried it several times, its nearly impossible to do effectively when both people have lives outside the game. (End-game type player-to-player instruction is a reasonable expectation.)
 

Uvtha

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ok wait what?
After reading this post, I do agree we need a new "companion program" - but we really do not.! From a previous post, if any of us recruits a new player, it shoudl be that toon's responsibilty to adequately train them
Well, you would imagine the game should be able to handle play introduction to a new player without a mentor being required.
 

Lady Storm

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UO is getting close to 19 years and in so has grown in scope and player knowledge of its mechanical workings. A new player is not awaire nor wanting a game they cant conquer in under 72 hours....
See they want to beat the game.
Only there is no beating UO.
We all know this, but they don't look at the game as we do.
It was pointed out by a 17 year old college student who works for my son on his free time.
His analogy of UO was a interesting game but something many of his age will not touch.
Not for graphics mind you.. but because they want to win and get to the next game asap.
Yes they like pvp but its also in wow.. and we all know wow is dropping subs like mad.
He played wow, and gave me a few hints as to why he no longer does.
The average kid who plays games can in no time master and make it their "pancake".
His words not mine.
He and many others worked games to make money.
(if the average parent thought their kid was frugal with their pocket money I got news for you.. they have paypal and know how to use it!)
To do this it takes time... time he no longer has. But it did pay him a nice chunk of change for things the parents didn't or wouldn't afford him.
Yes todays kids do this sorta thing with their games.
We don't live in 1997 where the freeway was not so crowded or takes 2 hours to get to work 25 miles away. We had time to play. Now that we are in 2016 its 2 hours minimum to get to that same job, both ways mind you..so 4 hours in traffic....no wonder people play on phones and on tablets.... they got to squeeze in the play time when they can.... Remember sitting down to dinner all at the same time, at a reasonable hour to real cooked food? Now you understand the differences. 1997 and now 2016.

Yes UO is still a good game as it offers so much but as times moves on the only way we get more in to play is to be as kind and helpful to those who come in...
 

Merlin

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Corruption
Duping
(some favoritism)
The same things every year!
I don't think new players join the game and immediately run into 'corruption, duping and favoritism'. But they do run into cynicism like this, and that probably does just as much harm as the items you listed.
 

Hawkke

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I have to agree with the above poster. As a new player I really don't notice any of that stuff, just play the game do a few champ spawns, a fishing or trade quest here and there and try to meet new people. Sure you you run into a bug here and there but the game is huge with tons of content so a few bugs to me is not a big deal. I honestly didn't realize UO had so many problems til I started reading the different forums. But that's just me.
 

Corwyn

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how about when a new player starts it flashes across your screen something like Uo lets give a warm welcome to Beth, the new blacksmith.
That way everyone knows we have a new player that wants to be a blacksmith and other blacksmiths can help her. I think this game would be very hard for any new player that didn't already know someone playing.
I would love to see something like this in game. I know I'd be willing to go and lend a hand.
 

MalagAste

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I would love to see something like this in game. I know I'd be willing to go and lend a hand.
I agree it would be pretty neat. Though might attract the "wrong" sort too who would exploit and such though there really is NOTHING a new player has anymore that's worth anything at all.
 

Corwyn

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I agree it would be pretty neat. Though might attract the "wrong" sort too who would exploit and such though there really is NOTHING a new player has anymore that's worth anything at all.
Yeah, there really wouldn't be much sense in trying to take advantage of a new player. In fact, it would be counter-productive.
 

MalagAste

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Yeah, there really wouldn't be much sense in trying to take advantage of a new player. In fact, it would be counter-productive.
Ya think? I think that all the time when folk start picking on the current playerbase. Don't we have few enough folk playing anymore? Do we really have to go out of our way to make someone feel unwanted and hurt? Especially when they really don't deserve it.

Sure there are a few who ask for it... being total A-hats, cheating, scamming and such... being derogatory and abusive. We don't need that sort about anyway.... but for the most part most players old, new or returning really could use advice, help and a large dose of compassion. Just saying.
 

Corwyn

Lake Superior Tabloid Journalist
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
Ya think? I think that all the time when folk start picking on the current playerbase. Don't we have few enough folk playing anymore? Do we really have to go out of our way to make someone feel unwanted and hurt? Especially when they really don't deserve it.

Sure there are a few who ask for it... being total A-hats, cheating, scamming and such... being derogatory and abusive. We don't need that sort about anyway.... but for the most part most players old, new or returning really could use advice, help and a large dose of compassion. Just saying.
I agree, which is why I said I would like to help new players.
 

Gameboy

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
No - they legit don't like the graphics. And neither do I - in either EC or CC. I find it hard to believe anyone plays this game for the graphics. Anytime someone uses words like 'nostalgia' to describe their affinity for UO graphics I roll my eyes.
So, I do
I agree, which is why I said I would like to help new players.
Sometimes a helping hand can go a very long way, after coming back for the 100th + time the guild I was in only helped me gear wise but I have such a better understanding of how things work in the game, it's been like a verbal UO Guide in TeamSpeak :D
 
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