(Player News) VvV Artifact Instatement Poll

[Revvo]

The game is not dieing just this version of it.

 

[Tjalle]

I'm not convinced there are many left on Siege that have earned the right to be involved in a discussion about pvp.

While this may be a topic about specific PvP items it still effects everyone playing on Siege.

And why do PvPers always claim that joining factions or VvV is a risk? You join it so you can have more targets and more areas to fight in. You know, to PvP in. The very thing PvPers like to do.
That´s not a risk. That´s a reward...

 

[Val'lyn De'ana]

...but that gear should not be artificially protected.

Agreed!

-Val'lyn

 

[Tjalle]

The game is not dieing just this version of it.

And obviously you are playing on a free shard which means you are on the wrong forum. Go give your opinions elsewhere where they might matter. Thank you.

 

[TheDrAJ]

I still am having a hard time trying to figure out why a small minority of posters are against having the arties available for use by all.

1) VvV players can get them by doing what they like to do - pvp
2) They will be able to sell to non VvV players
3) If they pk another non VvV player they may may even get arties back to resell.

4) Some of the trashier VvV players just want another advantage to help them kill so they can loot
(these people do not care about the fun or skill of pvp or the good of the shard - they just want to win no matter how to get loot - and by the way I think this is their right (even if I don't agree with their style)
and these people are important also!
Also - a large % of the rest of the players on the shard needs someone to dislike or hate!

So from my point of view - people who are for adding arties but only for VvV players are just trying to get a bigger advantage over other non VvV players.

oh and on a side note I do get so tired of hearing about three things:

1) I do get tired of people complaining about house sitters - they are as important to Siege as anyone else and since these people are typically crafters or merchants maybe they are more important!

2) people that hate and complain about Stealthers - the only reason people hate them is that they have less people to pray upon and they are harder to find and kill. Again it is their play style so it is their right.

3) People that say - " If you don't want to play my way - go to Atlantic"
Siege is not just for pvp.

Wow - I now feel so much better!

 

[Uvtha]

I still am having a hard time trying to figure out why a small minority of posters are against having the arties available for use by all.

Honestly I think it's just because that's the way faction arties were, so that's just become a core element to these items. That and the idea that a non pvp system user may potentially get some benefit out of it, which really isn't important.

I really doubt there would be any negative impact on pvpers if they were usable for all, and potentially positive ones. The benefit should be access, not exclusivity.

 

[Critical Gaming]

The reason this discussion is happening now, is because VvV *completely* revitalized UO. Atlantic has seen more action since implementation than it has for years prior. LS has picked up dramatically as well. It's a very notable influx in player activity, and I know because I play Pacific, Atl, Chessy, LS, Cats.

Siege is the *only* shard where you can loot. This is why I hate when people say "go to another shard that has them". When I kill someone on another shard, I think, "where's the loot?!" That's why I raid spawns so much.

That being said - the sheer notion of butchering up a system because some people want to have the benefits without joining the system *really* irks me, because it just doesn't make sense. Nobody has really addressed my concern with supernova potions or VvV horses yet. Should those be useable by anyone regardless of VvV or not?

This is why it's a valid concern:

-Crunch [VvV] kills Bluebie by explosion, flamestrike, supernova potion
-Bluebie gets mad because he can't use supernova potions, even though he's not in VvV

-Bluebie dismounts Crunch [VvV] and kills his VvV horse.
-Crunch uses a bandage on his VvV horse, mounts it, then dismounts Bluebie and kills his blue beetle
-Bluebie can't use a bandage to resurrect his blue beetle, so now Bluebie is killed by Crunch because he is on foot, and Crunch is not.

The fact is, both of these concerns can be resolved by Bluebie joining VvV, as can VvV artifacts being wearable.

This is why I get "irked" about letting non-VvV use the artifacts. I mean, you can sell them on your vendor for a hefty fee, or join VvV and use them.

@Uvtha - It's not that I would care if they are wearing them or not, but the fact that the rest of the system isn't being accounted for in the argument. When the whole picture is taken into account... it just seems shoddy and doesn't make sense. Don't you think?


______________________


And let's address this "gear gap" concern because as many times as it is debunked, it seems to keep resurfacing:

This, my friends, is what 2015 UO loot looks like off of monsters:

http://oi60.***********/flh8bc.jpg

This is what a VvV artifact looks like:

http://oi59.***********/jv0op3.jpg

The same argument from 5 years ago simply is null and void.

 

[TheDrAJ]

Well ya convinced me - I now am firmly against any arties on VvV
And if you can use bandies like that I am against those also.
And why must blueboy join
Again these are just advantages to help you win against blueboy

 

[Tjalle]

So what you´re saying Crunch is that the VvV artifacts is indeed not needed on Siege?

Now, don´t forget to change your vote.

 

[Critical Gaming]

Well ya convinced me - I now am firmly against any arties on VvV
And if you can use bandies like that I am against those also.
And why must blueboy join
Again these are just advantages to help you win against blueboy

Mind you - supernovas and mount resurrection are a part of the VvV system currently.

To answer your question:

Bluebie has the advantage of going into a guardzone and choosing not to fight me, or he could join VvV and have all the exact same benefits.

I'd like to take this opportunity to quote an opposing member on this issue to support my the above statement.

http://oi61.***********/153uwc5.jpg

I as a VvV member can't escape others with my own perks, because I'm perma-flagged. If all of a sudden 6 oranges show up, then I am *completely* screwed with nowhere safe to run, and will most likely die.

 

[Critical Gaming]

So what you´re saying Crunch is that the VvV artifacts is indeed not needed on Siege?

Now, don´t forget to change your vote.

Back to the original post:

Arguments

For:

- They are good foundation pieces for many suits and templates

- They aren't as heavily modded as most of the legendary artifacts being farmed up nowadays

- It will further encourage the use of the VvV system as now it is mainly used to farm deco.

Against:

- These arties "damn near ended siege" in the past. **

- They aren't usable by non-VvV players.

- They are "vending machine artifacts"

**this argument was based on the era before legendary artifacts, which now grossly outmod VvV artifacts.

 

[GarthGrey]

And obviously you are playing on a free shard which means you are on the wrong forum. Go give your opinions elsewhere where they might matter. Thank you.

Wait, isn't he in Gil ??

 

[Tjalle]

Nay.

 

[GarthGrey]

Hrm

 

[Tjalle]

*stares*

 

[Critical Gaming]

Yesterday I was approached by an up and coming Siege player regarding this poll.

(4:55:56 PM) Adam/Crunch/Crit: I think one of the arguments is that they will lose the need for crafters
(4:56:04 PM) Adam/Crunch/Crit: Yet there is 0% supply for the items new people need to equip
(4:56:07 PM) Adam/Crunch/Crit: You can't go to a vendor and buy anything.
(4:56:18 PM) Varrius: lol yea
(4:56:25 PM) Varrius: i couldn't agree more
(4:56:35 PM) Varrius: i have been running around for an hour trying to find some average armor
(4:56:39 PM) Varrius: and i can't find anything
(4:57:03 PM) Adam/Crunch/Crit: My argument for the VvV artifacts was that they'd be great core suit pieces - I could give you some average armor that would work if we had them.
(4:57:22 PM) Varrius: and the people that do have cursed ornies and all of that stuff dont sell it
(4:57:29 PM) Varrius: they just throw it in their chests forever
(4:57:35 PM) Adam/Crunch/Crit: ^ this

 

[TheDrAJ]

Now that I think about it -
I think we need to get rid of Super nova and anything else people can use to gain an unfair advantage.
Thanks for pointing these exploits out to me.
Lobby time for SirAJ

 

[GarthGrey]

Now that I think about it -
I think we need to get rid of Super nova and anything else people can use to gain an unfair advantage.
Thanks for pointing these exploits out to me.
Lobby time for SirAJ

Hey it's good to see SirAJ log in once in a while .

 

[Critical Gaming]

Now that I think about it -
I think we need to get rid of Super nova and anything else people can use to gain an unfair advantage.
Thanks for pointing these exploits out to me.
Lobby time for SirAJ

No problem.

It's just a shame you feel that way because it's what has rejuvenated other shards, and there is a ton of interest from these players to jump on Siege because you can loot here, but the system is only partially in place so they're like "uhhh... what is going on here?"

 

[Val'lyn De'ana]

I guess one of the big things that would concern many of the Siege players, is that most of us run solo. Get ganked by a group of stealth archers when at the bank or other similar locations, you are going to lose what took a long time to collect in regards to VvV points/silver would be a quick way to see people leave VvV as soon as possible.

*shrugs*

I'm too new and training far too many skills right now to join VvV but in the future, I'll certainly be jumping in. Hopefully by then the Siege VvV ranks will be larger.

-Val'lyn

 

[TheDrAJ]

But what you are trying to do is force people to play your way or suffer large handicaps to protect themselves.

I now think any VvV potions should only work against other VvV players and no arties.

 

[Val'lyn De'ana]

I don't see it as a handicap. To be honest, it seems like players can get artis that are better than the VvV level items from running around on their tamers.

As far as the pots, that I do agree with. Should be like blues trying to use area effect spells on other blues...no effect at all.

-Val'lyn

 

[GarthGrey]

Varrius tell your friend and any others, if they can't find a suit that they need, just yell in GC. There are plenty of folks that would put together anything thats needed. I like to pvp but am a self admitted failure at it. I can stealth around ninjer style and DP from the shadows but it usually doesn't amount to much. However I'm logged in quite a lot doing absolutely nothing except talking in GC. I have more resources than I know what to do with. I will gladly put together suits (mats required within reason) at no cost, if it keeps new or returning players here longer.

 

[Critical Gaming]

But what you are trying to do is force people to play your way or suffer large handicaps to protect themselves.

I now think any VvV potions should only work against other VvV players and no arties.

That's really offensive, actually. I've put in a lot of effort to learn and lay down all the facts regardless of how people feel about it, so we see the whole picture as a community and can make an educated decision.

I want more players to come here and play.

 

[Ol MacDeezy]

considering most non pvpers utilize pets as a shield and their damage out puts they would not have such a need for the artifacts...although people who dont play with pets could use them since in fact they arent just fighting people but pets as well(with artifacts they have the ability to boost their temp to give them a better shot at survival).....so imo anti-artifacts players wants them to fight at a constant disadvantgage against pets unless they are or convert to a tamer...**and if there were to be a conversion there should just be pet fight night and end VvV**

 

[Tjalle]

I want more players to come here and play.

And nothing is stopping them to do so.
If they really want to be a part of Siege, they will come even without the VvV artifacts being available.

If not, it just sounds like some shard hopping PvPers, that want to log in to get a quick PvP fix when action is low on other shards, want to come change Siege in their favor.
And it´s not a small change.

And when they stop playing Siege in a few months for whatever reason we´re stuck with the change and there´s no way the devs would look to change it a third time.

 

[Critical Gaming]

I suppose if the players had stocked vendors with everything they needed to PvP with all the time, the need/want for VvV artifacts wouldn't be as vehemontly sought after, but that simply is not the case here. That's why they are having such difficulty (as Varrius stated) getting started with suit pieces. I think that's a bigger change then implementing the last 5% of an already implemented system...

I mean, I don't even think I can find potions and enchanted apples on Siege vendors.

Let's not forget the bonuses of this, though:

Farm VvV artifacts - Sell on Vendor - Profit
Kill VvV members - Sell gear on vendor - Profit (wearable by anyone)
Kill VvV members AS a VvV member, use gear (wearable by anyone)
Farm VvV artifacts - spike use of VvV system from PvP oriented folks who don't want to farm VvV for deco - Player interaction increase ***** - it may not be the crowd you like, but they all pay 12.99!
Not having to depend on players to stock their vendors for key suit pieces

@Tjalle

What is the fear you have of being "stuck" with this? Especially in the event that it gets changed and activity eventually dies off?

 

[Val'lyn De'ana]

I drop any arti armor or weapons I've "acquired" on my vendor for the last few weeks. I have a bunch of various weapons and armor pieces ranging from 2,500-5,000 gp. Very few sales to date which is surprising since I thought at those prices they'd sell quick. Not so much

-Val'lyn

 

[Tjalle]

Cause when the PvP dies off and the remaining PvPers only have the PvMers to target then we´re back to the disaster formerly known as faction arties.

Now you give me one valid reason why a PvPer can´t (not won´t) PvP without the VvV artifacts.

 

[Critical Gaming]

I made an illustrated post on this thread demonstrating how "the disaster formerly known as faction arties" is no longer a valid argument with buffed monster loot.

Valid reasoning, as posted 2 posts up:

"I suppose if the players had stocked vendors with everything they needed to PvP with all the time, the need/want for VvV artifacts wouldn't be as vehemontly sought after, but that simply is not the case here."

This means that newer players "can't" PvP without asking in general chat for someone to make them custom pieces. GarthGrey when he's on says he will make pieces for people, free of charge. What if he isn't on?

A testimonial was posted (by me) in this thread about how Varrius couldn't find anything he needed.

I'd be stoked to see more people doing VvV, it's just that they don't care about the rewards currently offered. VvV arties at an increased cost, cursed, and not "owned by" would definitely increase VvV traffic.

 

[Tjalle]

I´m afraid that´s not a valid reason. They can still PvP, they just choose not to.

The reason there´s not much on vendors for PvPers I guess would be cuz there´s not many PvPers on Siege at the moment that need stuff from vendors. So why stock items that would only sit there and eat up gold?

However, if the PvP would pick up I´m sure the vendor owners would start stocking better again.

And where would non-VvVers be able to get pretty much unlimited access to glasses with 25 DCI and Crimson Cinctures?
The way it is now is the most balanced way we will get. Add the VvV artifacts and that balance will only tip in one group's favor.

 

[Critical Gaming]

That's a matter of opinion, I suppose. If I needed things to PvP, I probably wouldn't PvP without them. I'd certainly not go out on a 60+ resist LRC imbued suit that's otherwise modless, without potions, and try to compete. I'd run out of mana after four spells and get angry. New age UO isn't fun when you can't support the mana intensive skills with the gear they need. That's why most of the PvMers on Siege play tamers in throwaway suits. Their pets do everything.

PvP picking up would def make vendors start stocking - I'd hope.

20 DCI/HCI jewels and 35DCI/HCI weapons would be a good comparison to the otherwise modless 8Str Inc/25DCI glasses. Huge stat increases on monster loot would overcompensate for the +5 dex you get over the normal cincture.

Just saying.

Oh, and that "unlimited access" phrase... I'm sure I don't have to re-quote the intentions of having them at increased prices.

 

[Critical Gaming]

Quick SearchUO hit:

crappy bow with a huge DCI mod.

Composite Bow

Weight: 5 Stones
Requires Expansion
Hit Mana Leech 20%
Hit Fatigue 40%
Mana Increase 4
Defense Chance Increase 35%
Fire Resist 8%
Physical Damage 100%
Range 10
Skill: Archery
Major Magic Item
Weapon Damage 16 - 20
Weapon Speed 4s
Strength Requirement 45
Durability 63 / 63

 

[Critical Gaming]

Anyways, it's clear that you're set on your opinion, but I wanted to address everything as much as I could.

Happy voting everyone.

 

[Feanaro]

Why would they want to bring more pvpers here? It's just more people to kill the bluebies and pvmers. It's not about the arties giving pvp advantages. They just don't want siege to have a greater "risk" than it does now. Isn't that the real reason you don't want the arties? Don't waste your time crunch they were loving only having two reds on siege. _feanaro

 

[-Hey Arnold-]

I´m afraid that´s not a valid reason. They can still PvP, they just choose not to.

The reason there´s not much on vendors for PvPers I guess would be cuz there´s not many PvPers on Siege at the moment that need stuff from vendors. So why stock items that would only sit there and eat up gold?

However, if the PvP would pick up I´m sure the vendor owners would start stocking better again.

And where would non-VvVers be able to get pretty much unlimited access to glasses with 25 DCI and Crimson Cinctures?
The way it is now is the most balanced way we will get. Add the VvV artifacts and that balance will only tip in one group's favor.

Im not sure why people are saying "pvmers" will be so out geared that they simple cant not win keeps coming up..The facts are if a pvper trys to kill a pvmer no matter what gear he has the pvmer is dead 99% of the time. Its not like the people would have unlimted access like u said..the gear could be increased points which means u actually have to fight for towns..the way the current system is there is 0 reason to do town pvp..Having the artifacts is not just about the mods..it gives people a reason to actually fight instead of all risk 0 reward. Since the VvV came out like crunch said most of the shards has had a huge increase in pvp. Its nothing like the old faction system where u could pop monster ignore and afk farm silver and buy artifacts...u actually have to do towns and fight to get gear. As for saying Pvmers cant get the gear...i have a solution to that..JOIN VVV. This would be like me crying that i cant do lady mel by my self because i have a "pvp" Template while some guy with a greater dragon and pvm skills can easly do lady mel and has access to gear that i do not have access to..Its silly. Do i think that non VvV people should be able to do something with the VvV items if they some how do manage to kill a VvV player yes. As for what that would be i dont know maybe some type of turn in points to get acess to the clean up rewards id be open to a lot of things.

 

[Critical Gaming]

This would be like me crying that i cant do lady mel by my self because i have a "pvp" Template while some guy with a greater dragon and pvm skills can easly do lady mel and has access to gear that i do not have access to..Its silly

Haha. That's a hilarious and true way to look at it.

 

[kelmo]

There are a lot of "truths" in this thread.
,

 

[Bo Bo]

But what you are trying to do is force people to play your way or suffer large handicaps to protect themselves.

I now think any VvV potions should only work against other VvV players and no arties.

So you are forcing the Bo to pvm and craft in order to pvp. You are the ones forcing people into your playstyle.
You are already handicapped vs a pvper, and the pvper could be naked, ya wanna know why? Cause the pvp knows how to pvp and you dont. Bo knows how to pvp but not pvm so this puts Bo at a disadvantage in the gear category currently.

 

[TheDrAJ]

I am so glad you made the post above Bo - I agreed with you in another thread the other day and I really hated myself for agreeing. But now I am back on safe ground and you (as usual) missed my point.

I could care less what you do and to whom.

I played on Siege long before you ever showed up and I never did pvp. I have fun other ways. I wont try to force you to play my way so you need not worry.

I assumed you were stronger willed and more talented so you didn't need any unfair advantages to win at pvp.

From your post it looks like I was wrong.

 

[Feanaro]

I am so glad you made the post above Bo - I agreed with you in another thread the other day and I really hated myself for agreeing. But now I am back on safe ground and you (as usual) missed my point.

I could care less what you do and to whom.

I played on Siege long before you ever showed up and I never did pvp. I have fun other ways. I wont try to force you to play my way so you need not worry.

I assumed you were stronger willed and more talented so you didn't need any unfair advantages to win at pvp.

From your post it looks like I was wrong.

Ok, so you don't pvp. You don't stand a chance either way with or without the arties. Any one want to come forward that has actually fought against us guys that were using the arties, and tell a real tale about this "unfair advantage"? Truth be told any one that wanted to fight was factions, and was using the arties any way. We are the ones going to be fighting and dying in the town's for these items. Arnold is right, you can't farm this silver afk anymore. You don't want more of the pvp oriented crowd here, because you will inherently die more pvming, and get raided more.

 

[Bo Bo]

I am so glad you made the post above Bo - I agreed with you in another thread the other day and I really hated myself for agreeing. But now I am back on safe ground and you (as usual) missed my point.

I could care less what you do and to whom.

I played on Siege long before you ever showed up and I never did pvp. I have fun other ways. I wont try to force you to play my way so you need not worry.

I assumed you were stronger willed and more talented so you didn't need any unfair advantages to win at pvp.

From your post it looks like I was wrong.

Talk bout points being missed. You missed the boat ya old sea dog. By taking away the arties you are forcing the bo into farmin for them. And truthfully who really cares who was here first, The Bo has been here long enough. You were correct The Bo doesnt need any advantage, but the Bo is simply stating all the points that were negative towards the artis back at ya. And why would you hate the bo so? The bo has never cheated, scammed, duped, or any of those nasty things, the Bo simply likes killing folks. Atleast when you see The Bo coming you know what to expect. Unlike you, hell bo doesnt even know who your siege character is mr beenhereforever.

 

[TheDrAJ]

I have no problems with pvp. It is the use of items that give unfair advantage that I object to.
When factions ended - a good % of the pvp's stopped playing and left the shard. That hurt the shard as far as I was concerned . I didn't miss and still do not miss all the abuse that factions caused.

 

[TheDrAJ]

You are right Bo (I hate myself again!) I do not hate you at all and you are one of the most honest pvp around. But I don't want any items that give an unfair advantage to anyone.

 

[TheDrAJ]

oh and my characters are: Sir AJ, Sir AJ and Flint and I live in New Magencia closest house to Moongate and my castle and keep.
oh and one of my sons was a pvp in about 1999 called Sir George (I need to reactivate him and see if he still has player heads)

 

[Tjalle]

20 DCI/HCI jewels and 35DCI/HCI weapons would be a good comparison to the otherwise modless 8Str Inc/25DCI glasses. Huge stat increases on monster loot would overcompensate for the +5 dex you get over the normal cincture.

So you´re basically saying that with the new monster loot we don´t need the VvV artifacts.
Finally we agree. Remember, don´t forget to change your vote.

As for saying Pvmers cant get the gear...i have a solution to that..JOIN VVV.

Oooor... and I´m just thinking out loud here, you guys can join Siege as it is now and stop asking for unnecessary changes.

Cause the pvp knows how to pvp and you dont.

According to this thread the PvPers actually don´t know how to PvP...


...without their VvV artifacts.

So you are forcing the Bo to pvm and craft in order to pvp. You are the ones forcing people into your playstyle.

Yeah, don´t we all just hate when we actually have to play the game to play the game.
I´m sure there are lots of FPS games for those who just want a quick PvP fix.

 

[Critical Gaming]

I've got it! Tjalle is a troll!

 

[Sandwich]

 

[Feanaro]

So you´re basically saying that with the new monster loot we don´t need the VvV artifacts.
Finally we agree. Remember, don´t forget to change your vote.



Oooor... and I´m just thinking out loud here, you guys can join Siege as it is now and stop asking for unnecessary changes.



According to this thread the PvPers actually don´t know how to PvP...


...without their VvV artifacts.



Yeah, don´t we all just hate when we actually have to play the game to play the game.
I´m sure there are lots of FPS games for those who just want a quick PvP fix.

Wasn't it you guys who complained first about getting them removed? You didn't like a part of the game so you cried until it was removed? How is it an unnecessary change? Because you don't believe in it?

 

[-Hey Arnold-]

I've got it! Tjalle is a troll!

100% troll