(Player News) VvV Artifact Instatement Poll

[Critical Gaming]

This poll is in light of the VvV artifact thread posted by Hey Arnold.

I liked the recipe idea, but Messanna is going to be the one doing the work if its instated, so the more complicated the solution, the less likely anything will be done.

Arguments

For:

- They are good foundation pieces for many suits and templates

- They aren't as heavily modded as most of the legendary artifacts being farmed up nowadays

- It will further encourage the use of the VvV system as now it is mainly used to farm deco.

Against:

- These arties "damn near ended siege" in the past. **

- They aren't usable by non-VvV players.

- They are "vending machine artifacts"

**this argument was based on the era before legendary artifacts, which now grossly outmod VvV artifacts.

 

[Uvtha]

This poll is in light of the VvV artifact thread posted by Hey Arnold.

I liked the recipe idea, but Messanna is going to be the one doing the work if its instated, so the more complicated the solution, the less likely anything will be done.

Arguments

For:

- They are good foundation pieces for many suits and templates

- They aren't as heavily modded as most of the legendary artifacts being farmed up nowadays

- It will further encourage the use of the VvV system as now it is mainly used to farm deco.

Against:

- These arties "damn near ended siege" in the past. **

- They aren't usable by non-VvV players.

- They are "vending machine artifacts"

**this argument was based on the era before legendary artifacts, which now grossly outmod VvV artifacts.

I would be for the idea, so long as they are usable by anyone. The problem with pvp arties in the past was the clear advantage they gave over non factions players, making it much harder for pvmers/casual pvpers to defend themselves at spawns and the like.

 

[FrejaSP]

If they are useable by anyone, else my vote is leave them off Siege

 

[TheDrAJ]

If they are useable by anyone, else my vote is leave them off Siege

me 2
If they are useable by anyone, else my vote is leave them off Siege
So I don't know how to vote in the poll

 

[Critical Gaming]

My stance is to keep them as VvV wearable only - just not "owned by" and they must be cursed. Otherwise there'd be no point in having the original items. Just doesn't make sense to me.

I left the poll so that you may change your vote - I'll try to make it more apparent in the vote choice.

Thanks for the feedback.

.:Edit:.
I can't edit the vote choice!!!

 

[Ol MacDeezy]

i think they should be here, besides just because "you" dont like an aspect of the game "they" take it out, so realistically because of whoever im not getting my full 12.99 worth of this game...*not that i pay to play anymore but we should all get what i mean...

 

[TheDrAJ]

Had to vote against it then.

 

[Feanaro]

Really? GIL hasn't gotten on here yet and flooded votes against it. I figure they would be the majority of the blues who " don't stand a chance vs the pvpers with uber suits". The majority of the pvpers just want a throw away crimmy, or talisman. How does me having a crimmy make it so unfair. The problem with the blues not standing a chance is, one wearing a crap suit to start with, and two not getting the cap on things like hci, and dci. That and not having any survival skills.

 

[Smart Guy]

I'm not GIL but I agree with the Doc - if all can not use them - no way I want them on Siege

 

[Larry Lee]

I think they all need to be 1 stone. Oh and I think all should be able to use them.

 

[Uvtha]

My stance is to keep them as VvV wearable only - just not "owned by" and they must be cursed. Otherwise there'd be no point in having the original items. Just doesn't make sense to me.

I think the only purpose such arties should serve is to make it easier to gear. If you get killed, that person should be able to not only take, but to use your ****. The pvper still has the advantage because they have access to the items, but if you die, they should be up for grabs, or hell, if you wanna sell them even, whatever.

You earned them, you should be able to do what you want with your rewards.

I hate artificial barriers.

 

[ii ii]

I think the only purpose such arties should serve is to make it easier to gear. If you get killed, that person should be able to not only take, but to use your ****. The pvper still has the advantage because they have access to the items, but if you die, they should be up for grabs, or hell, if you wanna sell them even, whatever.

You earned them, you should be able to do what you want with your rewards.

I hate artificial barriers.

I agree with you!

 

[Sam]

Had to vote against it also - all or none.

 

[Kheloth]

Had to vote against it also - all or none.

Exactly my thought on the matter!

 

[Mitzlplik_LS]

Really? GIL hasn't gotten on here yet and flooded votes against it. I figure they would be the majority of the blues who " don't stand a chance vs the pvpers with uber suits". The majority of the pvpers just want a throw away crimmy, or talisman. How does me having a crimmy make it so unfair. The problem with the blues not standing a chance is, one wearing a crap suit to start with, and two not getting the cap on things like hci, and dci. That and not having any survival skills.

 

[Lore Denin (GL)]

Perhaps redo poll, I will vote in favor if all can use. If not then keep them off Siege

Lore

 

[Klapauc]

Leave VvV arties out. Makes the game more balanced. Right now everyone is in the same boat equipment wise. Those arties make a very big difference in template and suit building, they are no small issue.
Right now siege is the only shard where gameplay is challenging because certain prodo templates are only possible at very high costs.
Even if i dont pvp, i do not understand why one would need those arties to pvp. Its all about the skill behind the keyboard, right ? There is already to much difference in pvm template vs pvp template.

Agra-Lem

 

[Critical Gaming]

We could can redo the poll, but I'll let it run its 7 days to see what happens. I did leave the option to change votes in case anyone still needs to change theirs.


Some questions regarding the "wearable by everyone" stipulation:

What about supernova potions, and VvV horses? Would they stay as VvV only items? Are only the artifacts themselves going to be wearable by everyone?

Is there any input from those who don't wish to join VvV on the devaluing of the original artifacts if *all* can wear the VvV versions?

Sorry, OCD is kicking in.

 

[kelmo]

This poll is kinda turning out as I expected. Split down the middle...

 

[Uvtha]

We could can redo the poll, but I'll let it run its 7 days to see what happens. I did leave the option to change votes in case anyone still needs to change theirs.


Some questions regarding the "wearable by everyone" stipulation:

What about supernova potions, and VvV horses? Would they stay as VvV only items? Are only the artifacts themselves going to be wearable by everyone?

Is there any input from those who don't wish to join VvV on the devaluing of the original artifacts if *all* can wear the VvV versions?

Sorry, OCD is kicking in.

Well, it devalues them no matter what, just the degree varies. The question is I guess, are they cursed, are they antiques, whatever. Though to be honest I don't think any of the real versions of useful ones (crimmy, etc) ever get used because they aren't worth a bless, and few want to lose such hard to get items.

I have been a big supporter of making items like these MUCH less rare on siege, so that they actually see use. This would be one way to get that done, and it wouldn't bother me.

 

[Lady Michelle]

I never joined VvV , but one my chars is in VvV . I think when its active I must be in a town thats under siege or whatever. Anyways if this is able to happen I should be able to use the VvV arties along with the ones who have joined VvV.
Yes for everyone or no keep of siege.

 

[Lady Michelle]

I never joined VvV , but one my chars is in VvV . I think when its active I must be in a town thats under siege or whatever. Anyways if this is able to happen I should be able to use the VvV arties along with the ones who have joined VvV.
Yes for everyone or no keep of siege.

 

[TheDrAJ]

heheh ya I was fishing off skara bra and I had to leave my boat or become part of VvV!

 

[Critical Gaming]

That's an interesting point. I'll experiment later but when you're flagged that stuff actually may be equippable as currently coded.

 

[Kat]

I voted to instate them, but man I really hate these house sittin' people that never risk anything at any time who vote against everything, despite it having no effect on them whatsoever.

 

[FrejaSP]

I voted to instate them, but man I really hate these house sittin' people that never risk anything at any time who vote against everything, despite it having no effect on them whatsoever.

I believe most could vote for them if they they was useable for all, also non VvV and they did cost around 500 silver a piece

 

[Critical Gaming]

Freja what do you think about what I said earlier?

Should VvV potions, VvV horses, VvV robes, etc... all be usable by everyone, too? What would be the point of being VvV then? No risk full reward?

I and others just think it would look really shoddy if it were implemented that way.. because you can simply just join VvV. You know?

 

[FrejaSP]

Freja what do you think about what I said earlier?

Should VvV potions, VvV horses, VvV robes, etc... all be usable by everyone, too? What would be the point of being VvV then? No risk full reward?

I and others just think it would look really shoddy if it were implemented that way.. because you can simply just join VvV. You know?

No only the artifacts, alternative, upgrade old artifacts from spawn and maybe increase the spawn a little.
If VvV can get the artifacts for silver and non VvV can fight monsters to get them, it will work. I still believe it should be the same artifacts and useable for all.

Alot blue do not mind PvP but they do not want to be attacked in town or have alot enemies. They will try to fight back if attacked of PK's in VvV, but if the PK both have better PvP skills as he PvP most of his time and also have better gear, then the blue non PvP'ers will stop trying and just stealth around.

To bring PvP back on Siege and more targets for the PK's, then we need to make it more fun for all.

You use your time to get silver for artifacts, the blue use their time to farm for them. You could also make some of them drop from spawn and some be craftable.

I never played on a shard with this artifacts, so I don't know the mods and what mods you would have on a full suit

 

[Kat]

I believe most could vote for them if they they was useable for all, also non VvV and they did cost around 500 silver a piece

They can join VvV if they want to use them. There is no huge downside to being in VvV here on Siege. There is certainly not much risk with this low of a population.

 

[FrejaSP]

Sorry Kat, I have to disagree
And I am VvV

 

[Kat]

You haven't given any reasonable argument as to why you disagree, Freja, but whatever. We have come to expect that from Siege players.

 

[Revvo]

It's the same old mentality from the same old players that have destroyed the Siege PvP population over the last ten years with their attitude of wanting all the rewards without any of the risk, the true comedy is those same players are the ones desperately trying to encourage people to play here, ironic for sure but completely futile. The argument from some that the only way they would vote to allow VvV players to have the artifacts is if they can wear them without being in VvV about sums up what a crumbling ruin remains of the idea that was once Siege PERILOUS.

 

[Tjalle]

If you´re a PvPer and you can´t PvP without the VvV aftifacts then perhaps you should work on your PvP skills instead of...

 

[Tjalle]

The argument from some that the only way they would vote to allow VvV players to have the artifacts is if they can wear them without being in VvV about sums up what a crumbling ruin remains of the idea that was once Siege PERILOUS.

We tried this with the faction artifacts. What happened?
The power gap between PKs/PvPers and their targets became too big so the targets took to the stealth route and then the PKs/PvPers cried about that.

And then when the PvPers only had themselves to fight they started crying about how they couldn´t get their precious suits sold back and then they left for prodo.

The way it is now is fair for all. With upgraded monster loot and imbuing it´s fairly easy to replace lost items and it´s more or less equal for everyone. If the VvV artifacts were to be implemented to only VvV then we´re back to step one.

With that said, the VvV artifacts are not needed on Siege.

 

[Revvo]

I'm not convinced there are many left on Siege that have earned the right to be involved in a discussion about pvp.

 

[Revvo]

The current population speaks louder than anyone's, including my opinion. The proof is that there are other versions of U.O out that with a massive player base, vibrant, active communities with a larger DEV team than broadsword that have a growing not shrinking population.

 

[Uvtha]

It's the same old mentality from the same old players that have destroyed the Siege PvP population over the last ten years with their attitude of wanting all the rewards without any of the risk, the true comedy is those same players are the ones desperately trying to encourage people to play here, ironic for sure but completely futile. The argument from some that the only way they would vote to allow VvV players to have the artifacts is if they can wear them without being in VvV about sums up what a crumbling ruin remains of the idea that was once Siege PERILOUS.

So, one group of people getting special items, that only they can use, which are the same as items that are very hard to get otherwise, just for doing what they normally do. That's perilous. But If you the VvV player with one of these items gets killed by someone outside of VvV, and they pick up your special item and equip it, as a reward for risking themselves against a well equipped pvper... not perilous.

 

[Uvtha]

The current population speaks louder than anyone's, including my opinion. The proof is that there are other versions of U.O out that with a massive player base, vibrant, active communities with a larger DEV team than broadsword that have a growing not shrinking population.

Free games have a lot of players. Just sayin'.

 

[Kat]

Ah, hell. Nevermind. I have better things to do today.

 

[Revvo]

Free games have a lot of players. Just sayin'.

Why pay for an experience when an equally good one is available for free?

 

[Revvo]

So, one group of people getting special items, that only they can use, which are the same as items that are very hard to get otherwise, just for doing what they normally do. That's perilous. But If you the VvV player with one of these items gets killed by someone outside of VvV, and they pick up your special item and equip it, as a reward for risking themselves against a well equipped pvper... not perilous.

But you are missing the obvious point that anyone can choose the risk of VvV to get the artifacts, you can make an argument based around how you want people to perceive a situation but the reality is deep down the majority voice of what remains on Siege is "we don't want to take the risk so no one else can have the option".

 

[Uvtha]

Why pay for an experience when an equally good one is available for free?

Quality is subjective I guess. Consistency of service is probably one reason. Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against free shards, I think they are pretty cool actually.

 

[Val'lyn De'ana]

They can join VvV if they want to use them.

Agreed!!!

-Val'lyn

 

[Val'lyn De'ana]

I'm not convinced there are many left on Siege that have earned the right to be involved in a discussion about pvp.

I'm not convinced you have earned the right to be involved in a discussion of the remaining Siege players.

-Val'lyn

 

[Uvtha]

But you are missing the obvious point that anyone can choose the risk of VvV to get the artifacts, you can make an argument based around how you want people to perceive a situation but the reality is deep down the majority voice of what remains on Siege is "we don't want to take the risk so no one else can have the option".

No, I'm not missing that point. I really have no issue with pvpers getting easier access to gear (preferably universal better access, but whatever), in fact I am for it (I voted yes on this poll as well) and have been advocating it. I am not for special treatment, and artificial restrictions. The thing is pvpers will pvp no matter what. They aren't doing something new or going out of their way to get VvV points, pvping is what they do for fun, it's not really a risk, its what you do. You would STILL be at an advantage because you would have access to these items, where others would have to get them from you, which for say a pvmer is a daunting task. You would still have regular access to better gear. That's all you should need.

If you equip ANY item (outside of the universal bless)... it should be at risk. I don't care where that item came from. Items with special limitation limit that risk. With a limitation you get to bring big guns out on the field with little effort and non pvpers are stuck dealing with you being over powered. If they want to combat you they either have to become pvpers (play style should not be forced) or grind grind grind to get the rare items you have, and really risk using them, because they can't replace then in a day like you can. The advantage is obvious, at that's what happened with faction arties. It was imbalanced.

What you are asking for is a lessening of your risk. You want better gear, but just for you, you want a special advantage, because you like to pvp. You don't want someone to be able to take the objects that give you an advantage to even the score. That is a lessening of risk. You SHOULD be able to gear via pvping... but that gear should not be protected, just like pvmers/casual pvpers arti level gear isn't protected.

Personally what scenarios is more fun to you: 1) You die to a non VvV person, they keep your gear, and they use it, and you have a chance to pry it off of them, or maybe they bring it back to you feeling like they have a little advantage now, heck maybe they find out they like pvping a bit. OR 2) you did to a non VvV person... and they dry loot you and trash your suit to keep your power level down. :/

Artifical barriers like this just make the game less fun, and put a pointless limit on social interaction.

 

[Revvo]

Well the population of Siege is the proof that whatever is currently happening is not working so either you want to do something to change that or this is what the remaining 100? 150? players actually want, seems like a much bigger limit on social interaction than anything else could ever achieve.

 

[Uvtha]

Agreed!!!

-Val'lyn

It's not, as everyone seems to assume, about wanting to use these items. It's about preventing what happened last time. Pvpers don't just pvp each other... they attack anyone they feel like it. It's not fair for them to have a special advantage because they enjoy pvp. Not everyone wants to pvp all the time, they shouldn't be at a disadvantage on the field when combat comes their way because they would rather do other things.

I mean how would it be items dropped by monsters by people not in VvV were only usable by people not in VvV. That would be stupid wouldn't it?

If you have an unblessed item it should be up for grabs, where it came from should not matter. THAT is siege perilous.

 

[Revvo]

"I mean how would it be items dropped by monsters by people not in VvV were only usable by people not in VvV. That would be stupid wouldn't it?"

I'm pretty sure most pvpers would be delighted with this, pvp gear from pvping and pve gear from pveing, the model works for WoW.

 

[Uvtha]

Well the population of Siege is the proof that whatever is currently happening is not working so either you want to do something to change that or this is what the remaining 100? 150? players actually want, seems like a much bigger limit on social interaction than anything else could ever achieve.

I would say the main reason the shard is dying is because the game is dying, siege just has a fairly constant (albeit tiny) percentage of the playerbase, when the base shrinks, the shard pop shrinks, simple as that. I think we both agree that turning on VvV artifacts wont do jack for the population. UO is what it is. If we want to look at game play issues in general that make siege not work well, they are absolutely there, but player attitude is not one of them. The issue is that the game is designed around lack of items loss, and the code is just more or less dumped on out shard with its item loss ruleset. When the game is designed around equipment, and the process of getting that equipment is designed to take you a long time... it simply doesn't work when you lose it all in a death. That why I support easier gearing.

Like I said, I have actually been on of the few non pvpers out there advocating easy gearing for pvpers, but there's no reason to make pvp gear a special case. Restricted items cause an imbalance on a shard with open pvp. On prodo shards it doesn't matter because you can avoid it.

 

[Uvtha]

"I mean how would it be items dropped by monsters by people not in VvV were only usable by people not in VvV. That would be stupid wouldn't it?"

I'm pretty sure most pvpers would be delighted with this, pvp gear from pvping and pve gear from pveing, the model works for WoW.

Then why are (were) you on this shard and not a prodo shard? The reason has already been stated. Risk. It should apply to everyone in every case.

Pvpers SHOULD be able to gear from pvping... but that gear should not be artificially protected.