Poll on Client popularity

[Flagg]

Do we really need another poll of a tiny fraction of a fraction of 1% of the playerbase?

You do realize this is how pretty much every poll ever made about anything works, right? Something like 200 people casting votes here is a pretty large sampling of playerbase.

Surprised to see how far behind EC is dragging. CC has always dominated these polls, but not by such a big margin.

Three different dev teams has tried to make a Client that'd replace one from mid 90's three times. They failed three times. It kinda gives you a pause. Mostly testament to quality of work on the original. And reminder of how difficult it is to replace, as opposed to build a new.

Ultimately the repeated failures of each new client boiled down to really simple things. Player Character(s) have looked just awful in every single attempt at new client. EC included. That alone is all it takes to spell doom. You don't even have to look underneath hood.

World of Warcraft has been around for a long time as well. Well over 10 years now. You remember when UO 7th AE came out, right? WoW is like 4 years older than UO was back then. Kinda sad. Anyway, Devs of WoW, too, have faced pressure to tweak appearance of an aged client of their own. They worried about it. For years. They were scared ****tless by the concept of - changing - and improving graphics of something as personal, familiar and sentimental as a Player Character. On the other hand, they recognized it must be done. On the other hand, they recognized them almost sacred to people. They made forum posts about this problem. It was topic of panel discussions on conventions. Polls, testing, etc etc. For years. It took them half a decade to decide how to update and improve appereance of Player Character models. Imagine that. It took like 5 years, from this team that has resources beyond imagination of any EA dev team. See where I am getting at with my ramble? These are people that 'get it'. Every single " improved" UO client has had absolutely wretched character models. Done by some guy in one afternoon. The stellar importance and care needed was never there. None of the 3 clients had people working on them who'd understand something this simple.

 

[Dot_Warner]

You do realize this is how pretty much every poll ever made about anything works, right? Something like 200 people casting votes here is a pretty large sampling of playerbase.

Surprised to see how far behind EC is dragging. CC has always dominated these polls, but not by such a big margin.

Three different dev teams has tried to make a Client that'd replace one from mid 90's three times. They failed three times. It kinda gives you a pause.

I know how polls work, and they've been expounded upon in previous posts.

However, the Stratics user base is poor representation of UO. Most players rarely come here, let alone post on the boards (less that half the players I interact with read u.hall, less than half of that number post). Its rather easy to radically skew these polls using alt forum accounts, making any poll done here essentially meaningless.

Either you believe Mesanna's numbers, or you don't. Since she prefers the CC anyway, why would she lie? Regardless, neither client is going anywhere.

 

[Flagg]

I know how polls work, and they've been expounded upon in previous posts.

However, the Stratics user base is poor representation of UO.

How on earth is it a poor representation of UO players? Is person posting on Stratics somehow different to rest of people interested of UO?

Of course, if you choose to believe in some wild conspiracy about thousand empty sock pupptet accounts over something like this, I won't stop you. I mean, it is possible I guess. Votes are public; you can actually see the people/accounts who have voted which. I checked top row(like 12 people) and were legit, regularly posting accounts. In comparsion to 10 year old accs with 10k posts, my own account( only like 400 posts) actually looked most 'suspicious' out of ones I checked, heh. Having said that, if I made weird sock puppet conspiracy implications, I'd at least try to dig the evidence for it, since poll is open and all.

Regardless of what Mesanna prefers, of course she uses every single opportunity to white wash EC at every turn she can have. I'd sure as heck do that in her position.

 

[Dot_Warner]

How on earth is it a poor representation of UO players? Is person posting on Stratics somehow different to rest of people interested of UO?

The sample size here is skewed to older vets who are rather stuck in their ways, plus several shades of various vocal minorities. Its like running a poll in a state that is predominantly Red/Blue and asking how the "opposing" political faction is doing. There are no controls.

Of course, if you choose to believe in some wild conspiracy about thousand empty sock pupptet accounts over something like this, I won't stop you. I mean, it is possible I guess. Votes are public; you can actually see the people who have voted which. I checked top row(like 12 people) and all of the were legit, regularry posting accounts. In comparsion to 10 year old accs with 10k posts, my own account( only like 400 posts) actually looked most 'suspicious', heh.

Regardless of what Mesanna prefers, of course she uses every single opportunity to white wash EC at every turn she can have. I'd sure as heck do that in her position.

So sock puppet accounts, which we know exist, are a conspiracy, but 'Mesanna having to whitewash' client statistics isn't? If you bothered to look at more than 12 names, you'd notice that there are a few obvious shills who have never posted before and were recently created.

 

[Flagg]

The sample size here is skewed to older vets who are rather stuck in their ways, plus several shades of various vocal minorities.

Heheh. Not buying it. " Older vets" is more or less all UO has, unfortunately. For sake of argument, I'm okay with pretending this isn't the case. Why is it the " new" players wouldn't want to visit Stratics then? In theory, they are the ones most excited about the game and most eager to learn about it. Afaik there are no active UO forums besides this atm. Does it take like half a decade to master the arcane art of visiting an internet forum in 2015?Among first things a new MMO player in modern times does is read about guides and insights of the community.

Typical UO player< - -> Typical Stratics poster. I can't think of a single reason why these two groups weren't extremely overlapping. I've never seen a half way valid argument claiming otherwise.

So soc

Sock puppet accounts, which we know exist, are a conspiracy, but 'Mesanna having to whitewash' client statistics isn't? If you bothered to look at more than 12 names, you'd notice that there are a few obvious shills who have never posted before and were recently created.

It is your conspiracy theory, not mine. You got the burden of proof and evidence. As I said in previous post, you have pretty generous serving of tools to prove yourself right or wrong. Spend 20 mins going through the accounts casting votes on the poll and count them - alleged - sock puppets. See where they have voted. Obviously pretty heavy handed. Plenty of babies with bathwater and all that. It would weed them sock puppets, too though. Until then, I see question of faith, not some argument. Stop talking about these hordes of 'shills' and give some actual numbers. How does the poll look if you exclude everybody with less than, say, 50 or 25 posts?

We have no access to info Mesanna has. We have no means to read it in ways she does. She can interpretate and deliver it to us as she pleases. It is difficult to speak of the info.We can't read, prove, disprove or argue about it.

..Plus afaik she hasn't even spoken about CC vs EC at any length in several years anyway.If half a decade old one liner by dev is more current and relevant to you than very recent voice of your fellow players..well, good for you I guess.

 

[Uriah Heep]

..Plus afaik she hasn't even spoken about it in eny length in several years anyway.

Has any of them posted here recently?

 

[Ender]

Let's not forget this is the board that was vehemently against any type of anti-cheat program back when it was still a possibility....

 

[HoneythornGump]

"Continued support of the Classic Client is UO's mortal wound"---Greatest qoute ever on Stratics

Continued support of the Crap Client is why this game continues to go down the ****ter.

UO is and has been in a downward spiral thanks to the Jurassics, and the short sighted Devs for continuing to support a client that no new player would ever think about playing in the year 2015.

The game is a ghost town on practically every shard with the exception of Atlantic, and there are no signs that there are any plans to mitigate the attrition.

Maybe the CC client has more players using that client (i.e the Jurrasics) because no one else will and that is evident by how dead the game is...

 

[Flagg]

"

Continued support of the Crap Client is why this game continues to go down the ****ter.

UO is and has been in a downward spiral thanks to the Jurassics,

Maybe the CC client has more players using that client (i.e the Jurrasics) because no one else will and that is evident by how dead the game is...

You got it backwards. It isn't up to UO community to switch to client majority mislikes. This isn't how UO community, gamers, consumers or human freakin beings tick. Nop, it was up to three separate(well, two and a half) dev tams to make a client majority of people WANTS to embrace. They failed. Three times.

Failing to make a popular, new client for your old game three separate times is a major cluster hump with an ugly fallout. We get to live in this wasteland. No amount of your cheesy thinly veiled passive aggressive QQ them jurassics omg QQ will change the state of matters. Nobody likes we have two clients. Blaming community, your fellow players for us being stuck with two clients requires twists in logic I don't care to follow myself.

 

[HoneythornGump]

It doesn't matter what client is created..nothing will appease the Jurassic's and their crap client.

You could make the most beautiful game engine with outstanding graphics ,and the jurassics would still pancake and moan.

It's the equivalent of "Windows 7 sucks, Windows XP is so much better" crowd.

Nothing is and ever will be good enough for the jurassics.

Meanwhile, the game continues to go down the tubes because it can't attract new players with it's 1997 graphics.

 

[Flagg]

^ Unless you are trolling and enjoy it, I can't see the point of posting drivel like that. Others are having a pretty good discussion/argument here. Your Hurr damn those jurassics durrrr belongs to Atl general chat or highschool bathroom wall, pick one.

 

[HoneythornGump]

I'm just pointing out the obvious....

We've seen these client threads pop up time and time again, where we have the Jurassic's wanting to prove that more people use the 'crap client' over the EC.

That may well be the case,that more people use the CC, because outside of the few die hard UO players that use the EC, that's all there is left in UO...jurassics.

I don't know we why have players post polls on client threads that want to prove most players use their client of choice when it in effective causing the game to go down the drain. The EC is in the bad shape it's in as a direct result of the crap client. The EC was tailor made to get CCers to convert.

Maybe if the game was bustling with new players it may be noteworthy to 'brag' about the crap client, but it's the exact opposite..the game continues to go down the tubes (with 4 Devs working part time from their home), and that's a direct result of "continued support of the classic client".

The crap client is and will be the death of UO.

 

[GarthGrey]

Our Jurassics can whoop your Disney XDs

 

[drcossack]

It doesn't matter what client is created..nothing will appease the Jurassic's and their crap client.

You could make the most beautiful game engine with outstanding graphics ,and the jurassics would still pancake and moan.

It's the equivalent of "Windows 7 sucks, Windows XP is so much better" crowd.

Nothing is and ever will be good enough for the jurassics.

Meanwhile, the game continues to go down the tubes because it can't attract new players with it's 1997 graphics.

Speak for yourself. I may have grown up on the 8-bit era of video games, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate good graphics. When I bought my PS3 in 2013 (years late, I know), the first games I got (other than Assassin's Creed 3, bundle) were Ni No Kuni: Wrath of the White Witch & MLB The Show 13. Once I hooked everything up, I started NNK and was blown away by how beautiful it looked. Granted, it was made by Studio Ghibli, so you'd expect good artwork, but your comments about "jurassics" are, quite honestly, juvenile and so far off the mark, it's not even funny.

 

[Tanivar]

After 150 posts I thought the Trolls had missed this thread, then one pops in loudly.

They've tried to replace the CC since something like 2002, five years into the game, they just haven't come up with a new client that's good. You can toss in all the bells and whistles you want, but that doesn't make a good UI.

And consider this Troll, by the polls, if UO had dropped the popular CC and tried to force everyone to the EC, well over half their paying customers would have left because they won't play with a bad UI and UO would be shut down.

 

[Marisa Kirisame]

I remember seeing a screenshot of a cool community-made full 3D client. If it gets the full functionality of CC It's going to be the best one.

 

[Ender]

After 150 posts I thought the Trolls had missed this thread, then one pops in loudly.

They've tried to replace the CC since something like 2002, five years into the game, they just haven't come up with a new client that's good. You can toss in all the bells and whistles you want, but that doesn't make a good UI.

And consider this Troll, by the polls, if UO had dropped the popular CC and tried to force everyone to the EC, well over half their paying customers would have left because they won't play with a bad UI and UO would be shut down.

See the UI in the EC is just so much better... Graphics you'd have a point but the UI =/= graphics.

 

[Tanivar]

See the UI in the EC is just so much better... Graphics you'd have a point but the UI =/= graphics.

More bells & whistles, not better, if it was a better UI than the CC, many more of us would have stayed with it after checking it out.

 

[Deraj]

To all the "does it matter?" Absolutely yes this matters. UO should not have two clients. It should have one, and only one client. The "they're keeping both clients so it doesn't matter" argument completely misses the point. Two clients divides development in arbitrary ways. The poll matters because, even if it's not an absolutely perfect picture of client preference, it shows which way the winds are blowing and serves along with these discussions as feedback for the devs. There is a reason why the EC hasn't been adopted en masse, not because of stubborn old CCers, but because the art style sucks, the feel of it is off, and the UI is incomplete and packed with bugs and problems.

UO has been living on two clients for way too long now. I'm a hardcore CCer but I would be willing to see it go if I were able to switch to a different client that maintained the look, style, and feel of the game, minus the bugs. Yes, this matters.

 

[Ender]

More bells & whistles, not better, if it was a better UI than the CC, many more of us would have stayed with it after checking it out.

Ok, what part of it is not better? It's more functional by default than the Classic Client with an external program that costs money. Ignore the graphics. Just compare the UIs.

 

[Dot_Warner]

Heheh. Not buying it. " Older vets" is more or less all UO has, unfortunately. For sake of argument, I'm okay with pretending this isn't the case. Why is it the " new" players wouldn't want to visit Stratics then? In theory, they are the ones most excited about the game and most eager to learn about it. Afaik there are no active UO forums besides this atm. Does it take like half a decade to master the arcane art of visiting an internet forum in 2015?Among first things a new MMO player in modern times does is read about guides and insights of the community.

Typical UO player< - -> Typical Stratics poster. I can't think of a single reason why these two groups weren't extremely overlapping. I've never seen a half way valid argument claiming otherwise.

We've seen a trickle of new players posting in the last few months, its a pathetic number but they're there. If Broadsword ever gets their act together enough to get on Steam, there'll be more...but its really irrelevant to this conversation...as is new players coming to Stratics. You're just trying to distract with digressive points.

Stratics isn't UO's officially unofficial forum anymore, it hasn't been since the staff change, but I'll grant that it is the most used. UOForums never really got off the ground, and UOGuide's forum died in utero.

The people who post on Stratics tend to be the most vocal players, pro or con. Most players simply don't care enough to bother, thus the sample set is skewed.

It is your conspiracy theory, not mine. You got the burden of proof and evidence. As I said in previous post, you have pretty generous serving of tools to prove yourself right or wrong. Spend 20 mins going through the accounts casting votes on the poll and count them - alleged - sock puppets. See where they have voted. Obviously pretty heavy handed. Plenty of babies with bathwater and all that. It would weed them sock puppets, too though. Until then, I see question of faith, not some argument. Stop talking about these hordes of 'shills' and give some actual numbers. How does the poll look if you exclude everybody with less than, say, 50 or 25 posts?

I'm not the first person to point this out about polls on Stratics, so its not much of a conspiracy. I might be willing to tally the questionable accounts that voted...when I'm bored enough to do so. The Mods could also compare IPs adjust accordingly, not that I expect them to waste the time to do so.

We have no access to info Mesanna has. We have no means to read it in ways she does. She can interpretate and deliver it to us as she pleases. It is difficult to speak of the info.We can't read, prove, disprove or argue about it.

..Plus afaik she hasn't even spoken about CC vs EC at any length in several years anyway.If half a decade old one liner by dev is more current and relevant to you than very recent voice of your fellow players..well, good for you I guess.

You are being needlessly hyperbolic. We don't need access to Mesanna's metrics, but we do need to take her word for it. I'm doubting she's "interpreting" fictional percentages, they can see how many log in a day and which client they use.

The last time she gave a number was in 2014 at one of the meet & greets, I want to say Novemberish but I don't remember exactly and the posting of logs of those things are spotty at best.

 

[The Craftsman]

Meanwhile, the game continues to go down the tubes because it can't attract new players with it's 1997 graphics.

Whereas the EC has new players flocking to UO in their thousands? Youre deluded.

 

[Uvtha]

While neither client will be going anywhere, I think it might be an indicator of what is best to spend the time the 4 devs we have on. If the CC is really this much more popular, they should leave the EC to the modders, and concentrate on adding to the CC, thereby pleasing the majority of the player base. Simple business decision really...

While there are a few things I think the CC needs and could have (uoa stuff) I think the dev time should go to the new client. Simply cause the old one is wicked old and probably a real pain in the **** to work with.

 

[Flagg]

^^
It has always utterly mystified me. How can it be no dev team has ever made an official version of UOA for CC? Clearly it is both possible and reasonably simple feat to pull. Odds are it could double as some kind of an anti-cheat software too.

I'd love a good, new client but I don't think current Devs have the muscle(headcount, moneys, publisher support) to try once more.

 

[hirikawa]

Will post again, as i said before i'm new player. Have been in game for a bit more then year. And as retro gamer i know some retro games out there (can play and deal with Atari Lynx) But CC is seriously very hard. The hardest issue is small screen window and all small objects there. It's not possible to play because of that. Would need old CRT monitor or teen eyes to see such small pixels. And no macros (I know there are some third party programs there but i just don't use them, its a rule for me)

But also as retrogamer i can see the chance for UO to hit the retrogamer's scene and pixel art lovers. And those are not small group i think. But what is needed for that? not graphics, graphics are ok even in CC. But there is need for epic modern interface with great graphics. That is a must in my opinion. Check out look of Pilar's of Eternity interface for example.Without that it's really hard to hit the scene. And current EC graphics doesn't look good (KR client graphics looked not bad http://runuo.theabyss.eu/images/uokr/aboutKR/about5b.jpg )

About functionality i think EC is good, noticed some bugs but mothing major. And people can make a lot of great macros there, zoom map etc. I like it's functionality.

That's my 2 cents.

 

[Lord Arm]

I like the features EC has but hurts my eyes after awhile. if they keep improving EC and not CC, people that use CC may not be able to compete as well and may leave, especially with pvp. no love for CC lol.

 

[Modoc]

I'm just pointing out the obvious....

We've seen these client threads pop up time and time again, where we have the Jurassic's wanting to prove that more people use the 'crap client' over the EC.

That may well be the case,that more people use the CC, because outside of the few die hard UO players that use the EC, that's all there is left in UO...jurassics.

I don't know we why have players post polls on client threads that want to prove most players use their client of choice when it in effective causing the game to go down the drain. The EC is in the bad shape it's in as a direct result of the crap client. The EC was tailor made to get CCers to convert.

Maybe if the game was bustling with new players it may be noteworthy to 'brag' about the crap client, but it's the exact opposite..the game continues to go down the tubes (with 4 Devs working part time from their home), and that's a direct result of "continued support of the classic client".

The crap client is and will be the death of UO.

Can you show any proof to support your (Rants) umm I mean comments. Sounds more like your pulling poorly founded ideas out of your A$$ to justify your non sense.

 

[S_S]

Can you show any proof to support your (Rants) umm I mean comments. Sounds more like your pulling poorly founded idea out of your A$$ to justify your non sense.

New greatest quote ever on stratics!

 

[Warpig Inc]

Why? Im sure EA can get the login info for either client at any time they like. No clicky is required and if EA want to release those numbers to us (which they wont) then they can.

Ya all the farming bots will really make that fair. We know what client gets those 3rd types fanfare.

 

[Ender]

Ya all the farming bots will really make that fair. We know what client gets those 3rd types fanfare.

But... They can DETECT that!

I wanted to post an eye roll but I don't see one.

 

[Uriah Heep]

here ya are

 

[Modoc]

I'm just pointing out the obvious....

We've seen these client threads pop up time and time again, where we have the Jurassic's wanting to prove that more people use the 'crap client' over the EC.

That may well be the case,that more people use the CC, because outside of the few die hard UO players that use the EC, that's all there is left in UO...jurassics.

I don't know we why have players post polls on client threads that want to prove most players use their client of choice when it in effective causing the game to go down the drain. The EC is in the bad shape it's in as a direct result of the crap client. The EC was tailor made to get CCers to convert.

Maybe if the game was bustling with new players it may be noteworthy to 'brag' about the crap client, but it's the exact opposite..the game continues to go down the tubes (with 4 Devs working part time from their home), and that's a direct result of "continued support of the classic client".

The crap client is and will be the death of UO.

For the briefest moment I was offended by the Jurassic Tag but I curiously found myself embracing it.
I will Happily fly that flag.
Jurassic,,,,Loud and Proud

 

[Noryiscool]

Not looking for a rant & rave thread here, I'm just curious if the numbers favoring each Client have shifted. I'm assuming CC with UOAssist and EC with Pinco's work here.

Sorry this is utter BS its like asking which ugly sister you took to the prom and defiled, some things should just stay between you and her lawyer.

 

[Kirthag]

I'd like to clarify a couple of points stated in this thread:

Stratics isn't UO's officially unofficial forum anymore, it hasn't been since the staff change, but I'll grant that it is the most used.

We have a working relationship with Broadsword.

The Mods could also compare IPs adjust accordingly, not that I expect them to waste the time to do so.

Moderators do not have the ability to view IP numbers.

 

[Uvtha]

Will post again, as i said before i'm new player. Have been in game for a bit more then year. And as retro gamer i know some retro games out there (can play and deal with Atari Lynx) But CC is seriously very hard. The hardest issue is small screen window and all small objects there. It's not possible to play because of that. Would need old CRT monitor or teen eyes to see such small pixels. And no macros (I know there are some third party programs there but i just don't use them, its a rule for me)

But also as retrogamer i can see the chance for UO to hit the retrogamer's scene and pixel art lovers. And those are not small group i think. But what is needed for that? not graphics, graphics are ok even in CC. But there is need for epic modern interface with great graphics. That is a must in my opinion. Check out look of Pilar's of Eternity interface for example.Without that it's really hard to hit the scene. And current EC graphics doesn't look good (KR client graphics looked not bad http://runuo.theabyss.eu/images/uokr/aboutKR/about5b.jpg )

About functionality i think EC is good, noticed some bugs but mothing major. And people can make a lot of great macros there, zoom map etc. I like it's functionality.

That's my 2 cents.

Yeah the small resolution is a real pain in ye olde grapes.

KR art looked really nice in pics... I was actually really excited for it, but once you played it the experience was not very good. Everything kinda blurred and shiny and the pallet was drab, and lots of the art was really bad, item art especially. It was a real downer going into your nicely decorated home on the KR client and just seeing an ugly mess. I thought like 75% of the monsters were great despite the high gloss.

 

[MalagAste]

Yeah the small resolution is a real pain in ye olde grapes.

KR art looked really nice in pics... I was actually really excited for it, but once you played it the experience was not very good. Everything kinda blurred and shiny and the pallet was drab, and lots of the art was really bad, item art especially. It was a real downer going into your nicely decorated home on the KR client and just seeing an ugly mess. I thought like 75% of the monsters were great despite the high gloss.

I have to agree with you. I was super excited. Especially when they showed players SITTING on the Bed!!! I was like awestruck! I wanted that so bad. And then when I started to Beta test it my excitement died. The items where UGLY and hideous... and the chests like swayback mules... I wish I could find the screenshots I had of some things that really bothered me. But mostly I couldn't tell where trees ended and grass began.... it was all so blurred together I couldn't tell what I was running into.

 

[Flagg]

For sake of comparison, here is CC, EC and unofficial fan edit side by side.

Beautiful rework presented here is by Saphireena, bit bacground in post below ( Thank you Deraj for info!) . Here is a guy/gal who gets it. I'm sure it isn't an actual screen, just a tweak of the original in photoshop. Still, it makes one heck of a proof of concept. This is how you do it. This is the EC everybody would be using, as far as char models go. This is the EC that would ensure game is finally free from trap of 2 clients. Notably enough, artist who did this screen way back when used identical approach Blizzard eventually chose for tweaking of WoW char model visuals. Don't change; upgrade and improve. If your players have spend 8 years playing a Tauren that looks like a potato, then for love of ged don't remodel tauren to look like a cucumber. That makes people hate it, even if it were a good looking cucumber. EC turned too many potatoes to cucumbers. And really ****ty looking cucumbers at that.


CC and fan remodel by Saphireena in single gif:
This is how you Enhance a visuals of your character models. Not by having a dev with hangover spend an afternoon in Photoshop, literally tossing 1st thing that comes to his mind to client side.

EC in all it's glory. Yay. Some bits of EC look perfectly fine. Like few mobs are cool. Single most important thing, your freaking character looks just awful though. regardless of how you play the game, you spend every moment of it with a character literally right in middle of your screen. If you want to do ONE bit of visuals right, it should be character. And if one bit of visuals can ruin entire client, it is the character.
Admire his beauty:

 

[Deraj]

The artist who made that went by the name Saphireena. She started a thread many years ago called the Hi-Res Pixel Art Challenge, effectively demonstrating that the 2D art could be upgraded while maintaining the same style and without being reworked or re-imagined, as has been done with every new client attempt. Her work is still available to be viewed here. But yes, if the new client featured hi-res art that retained the style of the original art, then you can kiss the CC goodbye.

 

[BeaIank]

Upping the resolution like that looks like a very time consuming task, considering the time my pixel artist friends put on each sprite on their art.
I am not sure it would be feasible to do with the slim budget UO gets nowadays.

 

[Smoot]

Upping the resolution like that looks like a very time consuming task, considering the time my pixel artist friends put on each sprite on their art.
I am not sure it would be feasible to do with the slim budget UO gets nowadays.

thats what wow did. all the characters look exactly the same, just higher resolution and "better"

 

[BeaIank]

thats what wow did. all the characters look exactly the same, just higher resolution and "better"

WOW uses 3D models, so they just upped the poly count and increased the texture resolution.
That is a much faster and cheaper task to do than to upping the resolution in a sprite. If you double the resolution of a sprite, you have 4 times as many pixels to use, so tweaking the sprite to get a higher resolution is a very time consuming job.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

WOW uses 3D models, so they just upped the poly count and increased the texture resolution.
That is a much faster and cheaper task to do than to upping the resolution in a sprite. If you double the resolution of a sprite, you have 4 times as many pixels to use, so tweaking the sprite to get a higher resolution is a very time consuming job.

That's the problem with using sprites and one of my original dislikes about KR/EC when it was announced (the mobiles are still sprites, but projected on a polygon with a higher framerate).

My personal preference would have been to:

1. Retain the KR/EC terrain, KR flora (plants), KR larger art assets (such as the telescope, serpent pillars, and fountains) and KR building tiles (or alternatively, add KR tiles WITH 2d building tiles for even more choice)
2. Raise the resolution and color depth of 2D/CC items such as equipment, clothes, smaller items, etc.
3. Use polygonal 3d models for mobiles and particle effects for special effects and get rid of sprite animations entirely. The mobiles would not have to look like they did in the 3D client. Civ 4 came out a few years before KR was even announced and had smooth 3d mobiles at the same native size of UO mobiles and tech has only gotten better since.

Personally, based on the above comparison, sure, the upgraded 2d horse and rider look better than the (downgraded from KR) models, but I like the sand MUCH better in KR/EC than the CC, so put the upgraded horse and rider onto the EC terrain.

 

[The Craftsman]

...

Personally, based on the above comparison, sure, the upgraded 2d horse and rider look better than the (downgraded from KR) models, but I like the sand MUCH better in KR/EC than the CC, so put the upgraded horse and rider onto the EC terrain.

Its official. The sand looks better in the Alternative Client. I'll download it immediately just in case the look of my sand becomes they key UO feature for me.

 

[WhiteWitch]

Good point on the actual character graphics, the current EC player character models are awful.
The current EC player models are significantly worse than the ones the third dawn client had, those had some great spellcasting animations too, I believe they were motion captured, also you could actually tell a female character from a male, both seem to look the same in the current EC.

As mentioned, they would have done better to gradually evolve the CC over the years rather than creating a whole new extra client, I personally cannot play the CC as I started playing at third dawn so never got used to the old client, over the years I've become slightly envious of CC users and I can totally understand their position, users of the various advanced clients(3rd dawn,LBR,KR,EC etc) have had to put up with endless revamps and bugs over the years, some of which have made the game next to unplayable for us for weeks, where the CC has remained fairly stable.

 

[Uvtha]

That's the problem with using sprites and one of my original dislikes about KR/EC when it was announced (the mobiles are still sprites, but projected on a polygon with a higher framerate).

Eh, with a fixed perspective, it doesn't make much difference, other than file size and lighting effects. 2d sprites are just rendered 3d models after all.

 

[utilitron]

Eh, with a fixed perspective, it doesn't make much difference, other than file size and lighting effects. 2d sprites are just rendered 3d models after all.

But as I stated before, I believe they are rendered wrong.

Here is a quick mock-up I did comparing EC and CC NPCs in Military Oblique Projection bounding box vs Isometric Bounding Box.

 

[Uvtha]

But as I stated before, I believe they are rendered wrong.

Here is a quick mock-up I did comparing EC and CC NPCs in Military Oblique Projection bounding box vs Isometric Bounding Box.

I agree, but of course that's just a case of shoddy workmanship. A lot of stuff in game looks like you say, as if it were not made for UO. As if the artist didn't do a mock up to make sure it looked right in game, which seems like a good idea to me.

 

[Capt. Lucky]

Well the numbers are in. Can't dispute it. The EC was always a loser. Looks horrid. A dev team put a ton of time into it and EA will never admit a fail. So they try and prop it up with features they decide not to put into the CC. The CC is clean and crisp and has a great look. Ton's of games making money hand over fist with graphics far below that of the CC. It would be nice to see them just concentrate on the CC and just cut their loss. That being said, let's smell the coffee. UO has been sliding downhill for years. The team is so small now that nothing major can be done to change that. Half the people you talk to at EA don't even know they still even offer UO, lol. UO has maybe a few years left so enjoy it while it's still around. All games end and this one lasted longer than the average by far. The CC won't end, the EC won't improve, UO at this point can do nothing but slowly bleed out. My gut feeling is it *might* have 2 years left. EA likes new, bigger, more money, and buy a new expansion/latest version every year, I'm honestly surprised they haven't already pulled the plug. Right now they have keep the game (I assume) profitable by cutting staff and support to the game, but it gets to the point where you just can't do that anymore. I honestly can't imagine a dev team smaller than we have now. No client or anything else will save UO at this point. The resources aren't there even if you wanted to. So play, enjoy, and realize all things end. If you play any sever besides Atlantic (and Great lakes to a degree) UO is a ghost town. Come on folks, face reality, enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[The Craftsman]

Well the numbers are in. Can't dispute it. The EC was always a loser. Looks horrid. A dev team put a ton of time into it and EA will never admit a fail. So they try and prop it up with features they decide not to put into the CC. The CC is clean and crisp and has a great look. Ton's of games making money hand over fist with graphics far below that of the CC. It would be nice to see them just concentrate on the CC and just cut their loss. That being said, let's smell the coffee. UO has been sliding downhill for years. The team is so small now that nothing major can be done to change that. Half the people you talk to at EA don't even know they still even offer UO, lol. UO has maybe a few years left so enjoy it while it's still around. All games end and this one lasted longer than the average by far. The CC won't end, the EC won't improve, UO at this point can do nothing but slowly bleed out. My gut feeling is it *might* have 2 years left. EA likes new, bigger, more money, and buy a new expansion/latest version every year, I'm honestly surprised they haven't already pulled the plug. Right now they have keep the game (I assume) profitable by cutting staff and support to the game, but it gets to the point where you just can't do that anymore. I honestly can't imagine a dev team smaller than we have now. No client or anything else will save UO at this point. The resources aren't there even if you wanted to. So play, enjoy, and realize all things end. If you play any sever besides Atlantic (and Great lakes to a degree) UO is a ghost town. Come on folks, face reality, enjoy it while it lasts.

This mans talking sense. Ban him from these forums!!!

 

[utilitron]

Well a year ago they came out talking about steam. What ever happened to that?

I think someone needs to do a kickstarter to buy the rights to UO from EA.