So I tried to give the EC another shot....

[Peekay]

The EC is a failed experiment to bring UO in to the 21st century. Really it's an abomination: the models are ugly, everything is blurry, bug ridden and as far as I could tell there was no performance differences between the two clients. That's just the beginning. About the only thing that it has going for it, and I've never tried it, is Pinco's UI - but I just can't get past the fundamentals that I know Pinco's won't change.

I'm pretty sure that when (if..) Mesanna said that the EC is 50% of the player base that it's a face-saving lie. Even if it's the truth, how disappointing is it that 50% of your player base still uses a client that hasn't seen an update in what, 10+ years? In the past she's stated that it's a really small population that uses the EC so I'm inclined to stick to that belief. I've only ever known one person that uses the EC on a day to day basis...

They really should do themselves a favor and dump the EC and give the CC some [much needed] attention.

Never thought I would see the day we agreed on something, mark it on your calender because I'm marking it on mine.

 

[The Zog historian]

If this is really a plain fact, then you must have some concrete numbers. So please share them with everybody...
Because without them, it is just your personal opinion based on stratics community, your friends and/or any other community. And how much those communities reflect the real numbers we recently saw in smoots poll about client usage, which was way off from the truth...

You're challenging "numbers" yet offer none of your own. I wouldn't bother with a poll, which presumes enough interest in the first place, and statistically has too small a sampling to represent the possible UO population. Perhaps you'd like to do what I suggested to our wizardly troll, to become a Dev and kill off the CC. Are you as willing to bet the game's survival on a belief that client isn't important?

Read UHall if you doubt it. Know other players if you doubt it. Out of the half-dozen people I regularly play with, we're split between clients. One of the EC users is a new one, and I used it for a while when doing lobster quests. But those of us who prefer the CC would, sadly but definitely, pull our accounts. The game is not that good.

I really don't care about all these hypothetical drop CC or drop EC arguments, because neither of them will ever happen. I just think, that a discussion starts to get cumbersome, when someone tries to sell something subjective as something objective. That's usually the point, where a discussion should end...

It's not going to happen because the Devs know it would mean their jobs, after enough players cancel their accounts and EA pulls the plug for good. That's all the point I was making until Merlin derailed this.

 

[The Zog historian]

I cant understand your arrogance and total lack of insight in the game or how to run a bussiness. Or, are you just so selfish that you demand everyone else have to do things your way?

In fact, you understand so little about my position. You don't understand that my position perfectly respects both clients. It demands nothing of others. I can only hope there's some sort of a language barrier here, but if you wish to continue this, I'll play.

There's nothing "selfish" about telling someone to leave the CC alone. On the other hand, it is selfish for Merlin and other EC fans to demand that the CC client be discontinued. I doubt he even plays the game now.

I have never read anyone playing CC claiming to kill EC, or the game will die.

And that was exactly my point. But every time someone demands "ein game ein client," it's someone who says the remaining client should be the EC.

Ultima Online was born 17 years ago, and many old players keep to love the CC - along with a bunch of new players. For thoose that prefer the EC client - they got a good update when it was launched, but still it isn't finished. Both clients need some love and upgrades - thats a fact.

That much is not in dispute. Everyone has his preference, and it's enough of a divergence that both clients are necessary to keep both sides happy.

If you should continue discussing this thread, you should contribute instead of tearing it down. This is a community where we discuss things, and each client got pro's and con's - and each player has their own preferances.

You should respect that and discuss the pro's and con's instead.

You're saying this to the wrong person. I'm not the one who derailed this from the original topic.

Now answer this: do you think that if the CC is killed off, enough will keep playing with the EC? Or do you think, as is evident, that so many would give up, and EA would kill off UO because of the lack of subscribers? That's been my point all along, before the troll turned this into a client-versus-client war.

 

[petemage]

Aren't all of the Dev team prefering CC over EC? Even thinking about the CC being killed of seems kind of silly to me...

In fact things that are added to the game are solely customizable in the EC anylonger (vendor search gump as prime example). They get made for the CC and thats what the EC has to live with as well.

Thank god the finally hired Pinco!

This discussion is silly..

 

[Thrakkar]

You're challenging "numbers" yet offer none of your own. I wouldn't bother with a poll, which presumes enough interest in the first place, and statistically has too small a sampling to represent the possible UO population. Perhaps you'd like to do what I suggested to our wizardly troll, to become a Dev and kill off the CC. Are you as willing to bet the game's survival on a belief that client isn't important?

Read UHall if you doubt it. Know other players if you doubt it. Out of the half-dozen people I regularly play with, we're split between clients. One of the EC users is a new one, and I used it for a while when doing lobster quests. But those of us who prefer the CC would, sadly but definitely, pull our accounts. The game is not that good.

I'm not challenging numbers. Either numbers make it a fact or it is just an opinion.

I do not know, how many UO players there are in total.
I do not know, how many of them play CC.
I do not know, how many of them play EC.
I do not know, how many would quit for good, if one of the clients is killed.
I do not know, how many would adapt, if one of the clients is killed.

And neither do you...

A little bit contradicting your statements here. On one side, you admit, that the statistical sample size is not enough here for a poll. On the the other hand you suggest to read UHall and know other players. And that sample size is bigger or more adequate?

I can only repeat myself: I'm not really interested in killing off one client, because it will NEVER happen.
I really would appreciate, if you would stop talking about killing off the CC.

Just on a side note: Killing a client isn't the decision of a single dev.

 

[Merlin]

That's all the point I was making until Merlin derailed this.

Right... so when you responded to me about mispelling a word and throwing sarcastic insults at me for it... that was inline with the topic of the thread? If I'm guilty of derailment, then so are you.

On the other hand, it is selfish for Merlin and other EC fans to demand that the CC client be discontinued. I doubt he even plays the game now.

Please provide direct quote where I "demand" the CC client be discontinued. Oh wait. You can't because you put words in my mouth.

I had choice words for the CC and said I believe it's holding back the game, but didn't demand it's elimination. I also did say the devs should dump BOTH clients in favor of a truly modern 3d client (which we all know won't happen any time soon), but that's the closest you will get. #DERP #DERP

If you see any chars on Atlantic server with an Arthurian Legend based name and an RRG$ guild tag, that's me. I play around 7pm EST until 1 or 2am about four or five nights a week. Only time I'm not in game is when I'm at work or with the GF. We have TeamSpeak server and I will usually be in there most nights, even when not in game.

 

[The Zog historian]

I'm not challenging numbers. Either numbers make it a fact or it is just an opinion.

I do not know, how many UO players there are in total.
I do not know, how many of them play CC.
I do not know, how many of them play EC.
I do not know, how many would quit for good, if one of the clients is killed.
I do not know, how many would adapt, if one of the clients is killed.

And neither do you...

We don't need to know total numbers in this and other matters of percentage. Look at the forums and what CC fans post. Look at the playerbase and see what people prefer. It's not just a guess: it's a guarantee that killing off the CC would drive enough players away, not all who currently prefer the CC, but enough that EA would cut revenue.

A little bit contradicting your statements here. On one side, you admit, that the statistical sample size is not enough here for a poll. On the the other hand you suggest to read UHall and know other players. And that sample size is bigger or more adequate?

It's a shame you don't know a thing about polling statistics, otherwise you'd understand the difference between someone who wouldn't bother with a UHall poll but would respond by canceling accounts upon losing his favorite client. And yes, dealing with other players who are passionate enough with playing makes their opinion count, unlike a Rico type who doesn't even play but could vote in the poll, or someone who'd make a dozen accounts to skew the poll in either direction.

So I'll ask you again: are you willing to bet the game's future on killing off a client, that it wouldn't drive enough players away? Do you truly think most would "adapt" and stick to the other?

I can only repeat myself: I'm not really interested in killing off one client, because it will NEVER happen.
I really would appreciate, if you would stop talking about killing off the CC.

Just on a side note: Killing a client isn't the decision of a single dev.

Good lord, it's clear you never bothered to read what I've been posting. I was not the one who brought it up, and unlike others who turned it into a client-versus-client war, the point I've been hammering is that killing off the CC would kill off the game by driving enough players away. Do you understand now, or do I have to use crayons and colored paper for you?

If you don't want me to keep making the point that too many would quit outright if the CC were killed off, then you can kindly concede that and/or remain silent.

 

[The Zog historian]

Right... so when you responded to me about mispelling a word and throwing sarcastic insults at me for it... that was inline with the topic of the thread? If I'm guilty of derailment, then so are you.

The only derailment was on your end. Look at the OP. Look at you making this a client-versus-client debate. Look at me bringing things back to reality, namely that your

Please provide direct quote where I "demand" the CC client be discontinued. Oh wait. You can't because you put words in my mouth.

Now you're splitting hairs. You didn't "demand." You just insinuated. So tell us what you were saying here:

In the last State of UO address, Bonnie said half of players use EC.

Maybe if people would stop living in the late 90's with the 2D joke client, the developers would have more incentive to make EC better.

Or here:

Maybe if the people who've been using the same client since the Clinton Presidency would move on and accept some changes, the developers would have the incentive to put together a better package that would attract more new players. Sorry I moved on from the 1990's and you haven't.

And then there's this:

The obessession with CC is pathetic. I played it when I was back in middle school, 15 years ago. Its by far one of the biggest aspects holding the game back. The aversion to change regarding the CC v. EC debate is really a joke.

Naturally, you threw a straw man right into the middle:

I forgot that people on Classic Client are allowed to criticize the Enhanced Client, but people on Enhanced Client aren't allowed to criticize Classic Client without hearing the same song and dance about how the old-timers would quit and the game would die. Waaaaahhhh!!! #DERP

You really shouldn't backtrack when your own words are easily accessible, but after all, you couldn't, not after a few of us QTF'd you.

I had choice words for the CC and said I believe it's holding back the game, but didn't demand it's elimination. I also did say the devs should dump BOTH clients in favor of a truly modern 3d client (which we all know won't happen any time soon), but that's the closest you will get. #DERP #DERP

"Derp" as in your whole attitude about this? That's fitting. Poor attempt at backtrack, buddy. It's not working here.

If you see any chars on Atlantic server with an Arthurian Legend based name and an RRG$ guild tag, that's me. I play around 7pm EST until 1 or 2am about four or five nights a week. Only time I'm not in game is when I'm at work or with the GF. We have TeamSpeak server and I will usually be in there most nights, even when not in game.

Notwithstanding talk is cheap, the next time you make things up, perhaps you shouldn't go to such an extreme that people will suggest you check the real world out there.

 

[The Zog historian]

Splitting hairs is what you've been doing the entire thread, your last post being a prime example of it. When someone made presumptions and insuations about your opinions/posts, you asked for them to quote you and tell you exactly where you said such a thing.

What an expected non-response response. You were fisked, you were demonstrated as unequivocally saying the CC should be done away with, and you're still backtracking.

I made no insinuations of any kind, unlike you. Do we need to revisit things already?

In the last State of UO address, Bonnie said half of players use EC.

Maybe if people would stop living in the late 90's with the 2D joke client, the developers would have more incentive to make EC better.

Or here:

Maybe if the people who've been using the same client since the Clinton Presidency would move on and accept some changes, the developers would have the incentive to put together a better package that would attract more new players. Sorry I moved on from the 1990's and you haven't.

And then there's this:

The obessession with CC is pathetic. I played it when I was back in middle school, 15 years ago. Its by far one of the biggest aspects holding the game back. The aversion to change regarding the CC v. EC debate is really a joke.

Naturally, you threw a straw man right into the middle:

I forgot that people on Classic Client are allowed to criticize the Enhanced Client, but people on Enhanced Client aren't allowed to criticize Classic Client without hearing the same song and dance about how the old-timers would quit and the game would die. Waaaaahhhh!!! #DERP

You're not very good at this Internet discussion thing, are you?

I hadn't even responded in a day or so, but you still were naming me in your responses to others.

What you had posted was perfectly relevant. What, you think it was like talking behind your back? Ooooooh now, don't you get all paranoid on us!

Your 'insinuation' that I don't play because of my number of stratics posts is a (dare I say it) straw man.

It's clear you don't even know what the term means.

 

[Thrakkar]

...it's a guarantee that killing off the CC would drive enough players away, not all who currently prefer the CC, but enough that EA would cut revenue.
...are you willing to bet the game's future on killing off a client, that it wouldn't drive enough players away?
...the point I've been hammering is that killing off the CC would kill off the game by driving enough players away.
...that too many would quit outright if the CC were killed off...

I can understand your point and that you're afraid of loosing your game. But you can rest assured, it won't happen. So what's the point stressing it all the time?

 

[The Zog historian]

I can understand your point and that you're afraid of loosing your game. But you can rest assured, it won't happen. So what's the point stressing it all the time?

Who's "afraid" or "stressing"? I'm neither, but I am pointing out inevitable consequences if certain people, you know, demanding-but-not-demanding, get their wish. And the Devs know this, that what would no longer be "held back" is the game's finalized demise at the hands of EA managers. So if anyone is talking about what is not going to happen, it's those who are, you know, demanding-but-not-demanding that the CC be killed off.

There are plenty of other things holding the game back. Client choice is not one of them.

 

[azmodanb]

i will never play anything but cc. unless forced. its what im used to... and what uo is to me. and yes i have tried ec.. and its previous ill attempt.

 

[Tomarke]

Complains about people not willing to move on in a 17 year old video game.

 

[UOLAPlayer]

Maybe they just need to port the CC (which I still prefer, btw) over to cell phones and smart watches. With 640x480 and 800x600 gameplay windows, it should be good to go.

Then old school people could bring back the precast, exp-fs, hally wack love for a whole new generation. What's not to love about that? Can't you picture grampa going over to visit the grand kids and one of them running crying to Mommy... "Waaa Mom, Mom! I was at Champ Spawn and Grandpa PK'ed me with his watch!" See, they keep the CC for The Future and for Family Values. Just saying.

 

[Thrakkar]

Maybe they just need to port the CC (which I still prefer, btw) over to cell phones and smart watches. With 640x480 and 800x600 gameplay windows, it should be good to go.

LOL. Are you serious?
FullHD is quite common these days on phones. Current generation models even have 2560 x 1440.
Then we could really have a stamp sized game window xD

 

[MalagAste]

Ok who necrorezed this post and why?????

We already had a similar thread going yet again. Stop being a Thread Necromancer!

j/k

Anyway ..... there are differences in the EC vs the CC but you know most of them are in your head. The EC uses 90% of the CC tile sets... The ground might be different but it looks 100X better IMO than the CC.

As for the mobiles yes.... some look TERRIBLE in the EC compared to the CC take the poor Hiryu for instance... looks rather like a plucked chicken in the EC and has pretty plumage in the CC.

But in all seriousness NO ONE playing UO plays it for the Graphics... If graphic were all folk cared about truly then they would all be playing WoW, EQ, Diablo and FF.... NOT UO.