Can stealing be fixed so that it doesn't try to take insured items?

[The Zog historian]

it's funny how everyone kind of skips over my post... doesn't quote anything ive been saying, probably because it makes sense what im saying... It doesn't make sense that people who choose to steal by clicking the target or life bar to be crippled in a way that it attempts to take an INSURED item when someone who most of you say is playing a "PURE THIEF" with snooping has no chance of stealing the item either even WITH snooping... Insured items should never even be attempted to steal because you cannot take them, just like blessed items.. Im really just repeating myself now, can we get a dev or somebody who has the ability to do something to give us their input.

I didn't reply to you because I addressed your points in my other replies. You say that you want the skill to work "correctly" -- how do you know what "correctly" means? What if the Devs, then or now, mean for it to work that way?

If I have GM fencing and can't hit a mongbat, then something isn't working "correctly." If I have negative resists with Reactive Armor not on, then something isn't working "correctly." What we have here are two sides with their opinions of how something should work, like the number of attempts to find a fishing chest.

 

[The Zog historian]

I agree 100% that would be the perfect solution my issue is being forced to radom steal when playing my pvp thief because you cannot specifically target say potions because it weighs too much to steal and unless I plan to have a 30 minute 1v1 and wait till they use 40 of the 45 cures they carry to steal the 5 left..

I do have 120 steal and GM snoop I'm not asking to make it easier but make it make sense

Like I used to do, I'd goad someone into a fight and snoop before we started. During a fight can be really hectic, but it's possible.

Random stealing during fights is something I hadn't considered. It's yet another reason the change should happen. It's easy to set up a macro to steal and target the opponent, and think of what scripters could do. The chance would be too great of snagging something each time. Thus "You can't steal that" is an appropriate penalty for the attempt.

 

[Flutter]

Like I used to do, I'd goad someone into a fight and snoop before we started. During a fight can be really hectic, but it's possible.

Random stealing during fights is something I hadn't considered. It's yet another reason the change should happen. It's easy to set up a macro to steal and target the opponent, and think of what scripters could do. The chance would be too great of snagging something each time. Thus "You can't steal that" is an appropriate penalty for the attempt.

I've kind of bowed out of this thread. I've said my opinion and given that other people may or may not agree..
I have to pipe in here and say scripters don't have a problem with a random steal. Without breaking the TOS for stratics you don't need to do anything but write into your script what item types to steal. Adjusting this for people who DON'T cheat will have no change to the cheaters. A script can snoop target and steal an item with three lines of script without "you" ever actually seeing into the other persons backpack. It can be set on one macro. You can even set it to loop so if you're ever within stealing range it automatically attempts to steal from the person. If there are people actually scripting this, a change like the OP asked will not change or effect the cheaters in the least.

 

[Wenchkin]

Must I keep repeating myself for you?

No.

It's cute when my dog chases her tail. When you do it.... just no.

Wenchy

 

[Stickypaws]

Ah, something that might help newbie thieves do something before they have a high skill? Awesome, bring it in! I trained stealing stealing from a pack horse. Got bored crapless. Went off to steal from monsters all over SL, good lord dull. Random stole from players for a while too. Obscenely long time to train a thief doing that. If I could get a few extra bandies or pots along the way, top bananas! Bring it in! I think I hit this a few years back as it goes and kept 'attempting' to steal insured items.

I am all for anything that assists in training a skill naturally rather than pack horse humping.

 

[HP_Zoro_HP]

I didn't reply to you because I addressed your points in my other replies. You say that you want the skill to work "correctly" -- how do you know what "correctly" means? What if the Devs, then or now, mean for it to work that way?

If I have GM fencing and can't hit a mongbat, then something isn't working "correctly." If I have negative resists with Reactive Armor not on, then something isn't working "correctly." What we have here are two sides with their opinions of how something should work, like the number of attempts to find a fishing chest.

If they intended for stealing to be the way it is it would be nice for one to get on here and reply to the thread so I know... I doubt though that they intentionally wanted it to try to steal items that could never be stolen in the first place (insured items)... I just think it was over looked after insurance came out. If im wrong please someone (Dev or someone) reply and let me know.

 

[HP_Zoro_HP]

Like I used to do, I'd goad someone into a fight and snoop before we started. During a fight can be really hectic, but it's possible.

Random stealing during fights is something I hadn't considered. It's yet another reason the change should happen. It's easy to set up a macro to steal and target the opponent, and think of what scripters could do. The chance would be too great of snagging something each time. Thus "You can't steal that" is an appropriate penalty for the attempt.

The "You cant Steal that" is refering to the Insurance... The "Failed to Steal that" is refering to failing... What we have there are TWO "check marks" that it has to pass in order to successfully steal something... If you have snooping as is right now you have ONE check mark, that is only to succeed or fail because no thief in their right mind would intentionally try to steal an insured item as there should be no chance of attempting it even with random stealing either because it just doesn't make sense to do so.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

it's funny how everyone kind of skips over my post... doesn't quote anything ive been saying, probably because it makes sense what im saying... It doesn't make sense that people who choose to steal by clicking the target or life bar to be crippled in a way that it attempts to take an INSURED item when someone who most of you say is playing a "PURE THIEF" with snooping has no chance of stealing the item either even WITH snooping... Insured items should never even be attempted to steal because you cannot take them, just like blessed items.. Im really just repeating myself now, can we get a dev or somebody who has the ability to do something to give us their input.

Because all of the impartial people and even most of the pro-stealing people in this thread realize that you are whining about something that makes no sense is not an issue in any way, shape or form.

They understand what the word 'random' means and they also understand that without the Snooping skill you have no argument or points to bring up.

You are not "crippled" at all simply because you cannot blindly, randomly and without the proper skill steal an item. It works as intended and makes total sense.

The fact that even with Snooping you can randomly attempt to steal an insured item makes no difference at all and is not a factor.
The fact that even with Snooping you cannot steal insured items also makes no difference and is not a factor.

Its quite simple.

If random stealing(with or without Snooping)only took stealable items everytime it would cease to be random now wouldnt it? It would essentially become almost guaranteed stealing at 120 skill.
Pretty much negating the need for Snooping as stealing would then be even more of a totally simple lather,rinse,repeat process.

Can we get this merry go 'round locked anytime soon btw? OP justs wants nonsensical easy mode and everyone else is just along for the ride lol

 

[Stickypaws]

Pretty much negating the need for Snooping as stealing would then be even more of a totally simple lather,rinse,repeat process.

Can we get this merry go 'round locked anytime soon btw? OP justs wants nonsensical easy mode and everyone else is just along for the ride lol

Without snooping, go to a champ, and randomly steal a scroll off someone. Even with the suggested change that would be damn near impossible. If it came in, people would just carry 10 separate orange petals. It would NEVER negate the need for snooping if you actually intended to steal decent loot :-D

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

Without snooping, go to a champ, and randomly steal a scroll off someone. Even with the suggested change that would be damn near impossible. If it came in, people would just carry 10 separate orange petals. It would NEVER negate the need for snooping if you actually intended to steal decent loot :-D

1) Its a random act being done without the proper skillset. It should be tough.

2) Try doing that same champ spawn on a warrior with no tactics or anatomy. Its not damn near impossible. Its impossible. You have a much better success rate on your randon thief actually.

Whats your point?

 

[Stickypaws]

Whats your point?

My point is....

OP justs wants nonsensical easy mode and everyone else is just along for the ride lol

Most definitely not easy mode :-D

I am also not saying it shouldnt be tough. I am quite opposed to the current skill set things people manage to use & abuse. Such as tamers without Vet. But thats a whole other argument eh? :-D

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

My point is....



Most definitely not easy mode :-D

I am also not saying it shouldnt be tough. I am quite opposed to the current skill set things people manage to use & abuse. Such as tamers without Vet. But thats a whole other argument eh? :-D

So the fact that as it is right now a random thief with no snooping skill can run by someone at a spawn and occasionally grab a 120 powerscroll is not already easy mode?
With no downside to the thief btw as we all know death means nothing to a thief.

Seriously?

 

[cazador]

Vet should be incorporated with controlling a creature..to a very minimal extent..190 real skill points and you have yourself a tamer..at the very least add buffs for having skills that interact and bonuses to avoid such things..ie: 120 taming 120 lore 120 vet real skill you gain a 10% damage bonus..things to make players attempt to cheat the system..with imbuing it made it extremely easy to do so..you can have well over 100 skill points on jewls armor clothes..crazy!

Back to the original reason I made this post..

At the very least thieves are a fel template and should be buffed in accordance..yes we now have insurance on non siege shards..awesome well now they need to adapt some of the less used skills to bring life back into the game..yes stealing and snooping need to be tweaked to be more effective in the player vs player aspect..not mob vs player..cool we can steal in tram or tram based facets, it shouldn't be that way! All artifacts/or anything else a thief can steal should be in fel. Well too late for that but that's not saying that it cannot be changed..don't change what's currently in game tweak the future to make it more exciting and versatile..begging/item Id/taste id/herding all NEED love too other than a silly yearly events..

Make begging a rouge skill begging+snooping+stealing= bonuses

I mean the list can go on..

Random stealing surely sucks the way it is now with so many people carrying extra insured weapons/skill jewls/etc. targeted stealing sucks based on not being able to target large stack without an insta fail..implement something where targeted steals take a portion of a stack not just insta fail and make random stealing more real skill based over random RNG..

 

[andyjacksons]

I've kind of bowed out of this thread. I've said my opinion and given that other people may or may not agree..
I have to pipe in here and say scripters don't have a problem with a random steal. Without breaking the TOS for stratics you don't need to do anything but write into your script what item types to steal. Adjusting this for people who DON'T cheat will have no change to the cheaters. A script can snoop target and steal an item with three lines of script without "you" ever actually seeing into the other persons backpack. It can be set on one macro. You can even set it to loop so if you're ever within stealing range it automatically attempts to steal from the person. If there are people actually scripting this, a change like the OP asked will not change or effect the cheaters in the least.

i agree with every thing you say so now to lock thread get rid of 2d is the only way to stop scripting its far to easy

 

[Stickypaws]

So the fact that as it is right now a random thief with no snooping skill can run by someone at a spawn and occasionally grab a 120 powerscroll is not already easy mode?
With no downside to the thief btw as we all know death means nothing to a thief.

Seriously?

But thats not really gonna happen is it? If it got to that point would you honestly wait 30 minutes to an hour for a champ to drop then try to steal from someone who would most likely protect themselves with 10+ petals spread in their bag (hell most people have more than 10 things in their bags anyway), for a 1 in 10 or worse chance of grabbing something good?

Annnd full stop .

Easy mode is opening their bag and grabbing it as it lands. Waiting up to an hour then having a 1 in 10 or worse chance of grabbing something decent? Naaaah, thats daft mode not easy mode.

 

[Magdalene]

it's funny how everyone kind of skips over my post... doesn't quote anything ive been saying, probably because it makes sense what im saying... It doesn't make sense that people who choose to steal by clicking the target or life bar to be crippled in a way that it attempts to take an INSURED item when someone who most of you say is playing a "PURE THIEF" with snooping has no chance of stealing the item either even WITH snooping... Insured items should never even be attempted to steal because you cannot take them, just like blessed items.. Im really just repeating myself now, can we get a dev or somebody who has the ability to do something to give us their input.

I don't know, but I guess that the coding between "blessed" and "insured" is basically different.

When the stealing skill checks the random targeted backpack/player the blessed items are just not elegible. Period.
So the skill skips the blessed and targets randomly "normal" items.
It does not check for insurance at this point. (same item may be insured or not).
Some of the "normal" items, elegible as targets, may be "insured", if they get (randomly) targeted, the steal fails.

Maybe the way insurance is taken into consideration can be changed (move the check upwards, before items get targeted, to the phase where whole backpack is screened) - maybe it cannot. Think how old parts of UO coding are...

 

[cazador]

I'm just scared that the way things go around here, once the code is changed to stop attempting to take insured items, it'll be buggy and you'll actually steal the insured pieces lol

 

[The Zog historian]

The "You cant Steal that" is refering to the Insurance... The "Failed to Steal that" is refering to failing... What we have there are TWO "check marks" that it has to pass in order to successfully steal something... If you have snooping as is right now you have ONE check mark, that is only to succeed or fail because no thief in their right mind would intentionally try to steal an insured item as there should be no chance of attempting it even with random stealing either because it just doesn't make sense to do so.

I was referring to the failure to steal an insured item. So I used the wrong game response. Serve some papers and sue me.

 

[The Zog historian]

I've kind of bowed out of this thread. I've said my opinion and given that other people may or may not agree..
I have to pipe in here and say scripters don't have a problem with a random steal. Without breaking the TOS for stratics you don't need to do anything but write into your script what item types to steal. Adjusting this for people who DON'T cheat will have no change to the cheaters. A script can snoop target and steal an item with three lines of script without "you" ever actually seeing into the other persons backpack. It can be set on one macro. You can even set it to loop so if you're ever within stealing range it automatically attempts to steal from the person. If there are people actually scripting this, a change like the OP asked will not change or effect the cheaters in the least.

Shows what I know, since I don't script. I'm used to fighting cure/heal scripts, but what you describe is really...lame.

So I see scripts would be unaffected, but almost as lame is the thought that if these changes went in, a dexxer via a UOA macro could try a random steal whenever close enough. Instead of the penalty of reaching for something insured, it'll always grab something that will be useful.

 

[The Zog historian]

No.

It's cute when my dog chases her tail. When you do it.... just no.

Is that all you've got? Well, at least you're no longer putting words in my mouth.

You've said your peace. I've said mine. But I've countered every last syllable of your arguments, and the least you can do is offer SOMETHING sensible, instead of pretending I didn't say certain things, or pretending I did.

 

[The Zog historian]

If they intended for stealing to be the way it is it would be nice for one to get on here and reply to the thread so I know... I doubt though that they intentionally wanted it to try to steal items that could never be stolen in the first place (insured items)... I just think it was over looked after insurance came out. If im wrong please someone (Dev or someone) reply and let me know.

Since Wenchy has pointed out that the Dev team has changed over the years, who's to know? Again, we're only presenting our opinions of how it should work.

 

[Flutter]

Shows what I know, since I don't script. I'm used to fighting cure/heal scripts, but what you describe is really...lame.

So I see scripts would be unaffected, but almost as lame is the thought that if these changes went in, a dexxer via a UOA macro could try a random steal whenever close enough. Instead of the penalty of reaching for something insured, it'll always grab something that will be useful.

Anything you can do in game you can write a script for. Think about the script that walks around luna, grabs every item and price on every vendor on every shard and creates a list for the "illegal search site". Considering that, you figure a script to steal randomly from people is quite a short and easy one.

Please don't think that I don't see your point. I just don't think the proper solution is to have the system try to steal something that couldn't be stolen. Instead I think perhaps the % of success needs to be altered.
When playing my thief I almost always snoop steal. Rarely, and I do mean rarely, do I ever see insured items in people's packs. As I said earlier most insured items are being worn or equipped by the "target". Anyone else that may have insured items are inexperienced "pvpers" at the Yew gate just looking around to see the excitement and aren't really participating.
I do think if someone wants to invest 100-120 points in stealing instead of a fighting or defensive skill they should be able to steal that guy's bandages he's fighting against without too much issue.

 

[cazador]

Only inexperienced PVPers have extra insured items? That's a silly thought its the inexperienced that do not..a second weapon or skill jewls if factions or necro jewls to help work a spawn..a shield if asked to duel..plus most my high end items are blessed so I guess your semi right

 

[Flutter]

Only inexperienced PVPers have extra insured items? That's a silly thought its the inexperienced that do not..a second weapon or skill jewls if factions or necro jewls to help work a spawn..a shield if asked to duel..plus most my high end items are blessed so I guess your semi right

I should have said unless you are a dexxer with alternate weapons, yes most PvPers who do so daily don't have anything except pots/bandages and a trapped box, and don't regularly carry alternate jewelry etc. Yes, spawners sometimes carry insured items like talisman etc. I don't consider spawning characters pvp characters. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I believe that most of us spawn on alternate characters than we pvp with every day.

 

[weins201]

Flutter; "" I just don't think the proper solution is to have the system try to steal something that couldn't be stolen. Instead I think perhaps the % of success needs to be altered.""

What you want is to be able to RANDOM steal SOMETHING every time unless you fail at stealing, which is why it is RANDOM as you could grab the "wallet with the chain" (Insured) item. Stealing is NOT BROKEN and this dose not need to be fixed!!!!!!


I do agree that with a random steal you should be able to steal part of a stack which should be added to snoop stealing.

 

[Flutter]

Flutter; "" I just don't think the proper solution is to have the system try to steal something that couldn't be stolen. Instead I think perhaps the % of success needs to be altered.""

What you want is to be able to RANDOM steal SOMETHING every time unless you fail at stealing, which is why it is RANDOM as you could grab the "wallet with the chain" (Insured) item. Stealing is NOT BROKEN and this dose not need to be fixed!!!!!!


I do agree that with a random steal you should be able to steal part of a stack which should be added to snoop stealing.

Thank you for typing what you think I want in big giant letters that are in a color that is very hard to read, but it is seriously unnecessary because I know what I mean and if you haven't gotten an idea of my point of view by now arguing about it isn't going to help. (and certainly changing my font will not help either) At least I am able to see other people's points of view. You seem to refuse to see mine. Have a good day sir.

 

[HP_Zoro_HP]

I was referring to the failure to steal an insured item. So I used the wrong game response. Serve some papers and sue me.

dude (or woman) what is your problem seriously? Even after you have given us your input and opinion it's like you feel the need to get rude now?

 

[HP_Zoro_HP]

Since Wenchy has pointed out that the Dev team has changed over the years, who's to know? Again, we're only presenting our opinions of how it should work.

And in all actuality if a thief is going to pickpocket somebody take rl for example... I'm pretty sure the thief doesn't go up to a woman and open up her purse to see if theirs anything good to take..... Haven't you ever heard of a person pick pocketing someone else on the subway or just walking down the street in a busy city? I would think that would/could be classified as "Random Stealing" if in UO and it shouldn't attempt to take an insured item because they cannot be stolen even if the person felt like rummaging through the persons "purse" first (that would need snooping skill and incase you aren't following me i'm saying that even with snooping skill a player cannot steal an insured item).

 

[HP_Zoro_HP]

Flutter; "" I just don't think the proper solution is to have the system try to steal something that couldn't be stolen. Instead I think perhaps the % of success needs to be altered.""

What you want is to be able to RANDOM steal SOMETHING every time unless you fail at stealing, which is why it is RANDOM as you could grab the "wallet with the chain" (Insured) item. Stealing is NOT BROKEN and this dose not need to be fixed!!!!!!


I do agree that with a random steal you should be able to steal part of a stack which should be added to snoop stealing.

The "wallet with the chain" theory the same could be said about Snooping skill... Perhaps since people who choose to "random steal" have TWO fail checks to go through 1. Failing in general, and 2. Checking if its n insured item... How about even at GM snooping having a chance of failing to open the targets backpack and having it reveal you in the process oh and flagging you criminal for doing it? Does that sound fair? No I didn't think so. I am not asking for a buff or boost to thieves. I just want stealing to work as it did oh umm... how many years ago when it didn't have to go through the 2nd fail check with insurance?

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

The "wallet with the chain" theory the same could be said about Snooping skill... Perhaps since people who choose to "random steal" have TWO fail checks to go through 1. Failing in general, and 2. Checking if its n insured item... How about even at GM snooping having a chance of failing to open the targets backpack and having it reveal you in the process oh and flagging you criminal for doing it? Does that sound fair? No I didn't think so. I am not asking for a buff or boost to thieves. I just want stealing to work as it did oh umm... how many years ago when it didn't have to go through the 2nd fail check with insurance?

That is where your entire OP went wrong Zoro.

There is insurance in the game now and it affects everything.

Everyone else has pretty much come to terms with it and adjusted and moved forward. You happen to be playing a random thief without the proper skillset this month so now you want to re-design the whole system I guess? Thats pretty funny.

Bottom line is that there is nothing wrong with the fact that random stealing basically attempts to blindly grab anything in the pack. It makes sense and it is within reasonable game mechanics.
Why would the devs spend even one second looking at it? Play a serious thief that has snooping and knows where to go and what to steal and you have absolutely no issues at all. You can make as much gold as you want.
Or keep playing a no skill, random pvp griefing thief and complain to the devs for something that is not needed.

 

[The Zog historian]

dude (or woman) what is your problem seriously? Even after you have given us your input and opinion it's like you feel the need to get rude now?

I'm not being rude. I made an irritated reply since you nitpicked about the game message you knew I meant to quote.

 

[HP_Zoro_HP]

That is where your entire OP went wrong Zoro.

There is insurance in the game now and it affects everything.

Everyone else has pretty much come to terms with it and adjusted and moved forward. You happen to be playing a random thief without the proper skillset this month so now you want to re-design the whole system I guess? Thats pretty funny.

Bottom line is that there is nothing wrong with the fact that random stealing basically attempts to blindly grab anything in the pack. It makes sense and it is within reasonable game mechanics.
Why would the devs spend even one second looking at it? Play a serious thief that has snooping and knows where to go and what to steal and you have absolutely no issues at all. You can make as much gold as you want.
Or keep playing a no skill, random pvp griefing thief and complain to the devs for something that is not needed.

Might as well be like WoW then shouldn't it? 5 different skill "SETS"... 3 Skills per skill "SET" and pick what you want... Is that basically what you are saying UO should be like? Nothing fancy, no hybrid anyhing just straight same old boring templates that everybody else has? Another example game would be Diablo where yes you can choose what tree between three trees per character BUT... You are limited to what skills you can choose... UO has never been that way and it's what makes he game so enjoyable. When you limit the game in that part it makes it like most other games on the market today ... Then eventually we will have the same layout and become boring. Aion... WoW... Shadowbane (i think? cant remember) all same layout... Im done though gotta get outta here.

 

[Wenchkin]

Might as well be like WoW then shouldn't it? 5 different skill "SETS"... 3 Skills per skill "SET" and pick what you want... Is that basically what you are saying UO should be like? Nothing fancy, no hybrid anyhing just straight same old boring templates that everybody else has? Another example game would be Diablo where yes you can choose what tree between three trees per character BUT... You are limited to what skills you can choose... UO has never been that way and it's what makes he game so enjoyable. When you limit the game in that part it makes it like most other games on the market today ... Then eventually we will have the same layout and become boring. Aion... WoW... Shadowbane (i think? cant remember) all same layout... Im done though gotta get outta here.

You have skills and additional skills to complement and enhance their effectiveness. If you want the most effective thief then you add in snooping. If not, you accept that you'll be able to steal but it'll be harder to get what you want.That won't change if stealing was set to ignore insured items. Players aren't going to just let you repeatedly random steal till you get lucky, they'll use lots of small stacks of items in their pack, lock valuables in containers that you can't steal in one go. Or simply pass a valuables bag to a friend if they think the thief is checking them out. Without snooping you won't be able to tell if someone even has something valuable, you can't target a specific item so you've got to rely on being alive to keep going back repeatedly, hoping again that you'll get lucky. In comparison, the snoop thief got a look in the pack without being noticed, set up the target item and grabbed it in the space of a few seconds. Or they saw it was a worthless mark and moved on. That won't change if you can ignore insured items, in fact marks will be even more careful knowing players like yourself will be around. So you'll really feel the need for snooping.

Many skills in UO have complimentary skills which enhance their effectiveness.It's not setting you with just cookie cutter templates it gives you a myriad of choices for your templates. You decide what skills need their compliment and which you can cut back on, based on the aims you have for that template. If you aim to have a thief stealing from players then you have stealing and snooping and you build the template around that. If you remove a complimentary skill then you make it the least important one so your template is still able to function. If stealing from players is a primary objective for your thief then snooping is necessary. If anything this has become easier over the years with skill boost items and instant re-use soulstones. You can have a lot of hybrids that simply wouldn't have been possible in the past. So we're hardly moving towards a UO where there isn't choice. Quite the opposite. When sampires are extinct then you can worry about your thief

Wenchy

 

[Jerec KTM]

Way too many personal attacks and attacks on the devs in this thread. It needs to be locked.

 

[The Zog historian]

At the least, it's five-month thread necromancy...

 

[Viper09]

Im done though gotta get outta here.

Thought you were already done with this several months ago...

 

[Petra Fyde]

Made me think. When stealing from monsters you sometimes get 'you can not steal that'. I wonder what that pesky daemon's got that he's insured.
I think we'll let this dead thread die.