While I donlt like the idea of making all armor meddable I think you hit on a big problem right here. I think the armor changes are good for the most part. But the fact that warriors are so dependant on mana is a problem.
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As I said, " I don't set macros that I don't actively use." And yes, I use ALL of those macros, with the exception of Animated Weapon. I have more macros that I don't use often, so I didn't bother to post them. If I don't use a macro against you, it's because I don't *need to.* And not because my class is more over-powered than yours, but because you're most likely a noob. When I fight good people, I HAVE to use all of my macros. They force me to adapt to different situations, and to use ingenuity.You can list 550 macros that you have set on your character my friend
Having them set and actually using them correctly in a fight are 2 very different things.
I am telling you that if you were to fight myself or any other decent warrior today you would be using about 8 of those for the duration of the fight so please spare me your key mashing superiority.
But to answer your response, No. I would still use a lot more than 8. Even against a noob like you ;P
But, not for nothing, this argument has strayed far from the point, and has become a nonsensical debate over who is a towel. If you think that mages are simple and overpowered, then I implore you - to Please, Create a mage. And see how much more difficult it actually is.
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So on Test Center, momentum strike just doesn't work half the time, telling me there are no valid targets even as I'm surrounded. Dunno if that's been reported yet.
Also, I figured out what this whole sequence of "We're adding an item to remove Mage Armor, because we're adding penalties to Mage Armor, because we're adding inherent LMC, blah blah" reminds me of.
Yeah yeah I'm a jerk, but look, they're going to add a widget that wipes Mage Armor off an artifact, right? And someone (okay me) is going to point out that this only helps about half the artifacts on the list of those borked by this publish. (The other half are all dexer arties based on armor types which are medable.) So they're going to have to invent... I dunno... a Warrior Armor property, and then they'll have to invent another different widget to put that property ON artifacts, and next thing you know someone swallows a horse. Then who's the jerk?!
Either that or they'll just go "Man **** that other half of the list, those artifacts are sacrificed on the altar of the future!"
Also, I figured out what this whole sequence of "We're adding an item to remove Mage Armor, because we're adding penalties to Mage Armor, because we're adding inherent LMC, blah blah" reminds me of.
Yeah yeah I'm a jerk, but look, they're going to add a widget that wipes Mage Armor off an artifact, right? And someone (okay me) is going to point out that this only helps about half the artifacts on the list of those borked by this publish. (The other half are all dexer arties based on armor types which are medable.) So they're going to have to invent... I dunno... a Warrior Armor property, and then they'll have to invent another different widget to put that property ON artifacts, and next thing you know someone swallows a horse. Then who's the jerk?!
Either that or they'll just go "Man **** that other half of the list, those artifacts are sacrificed on the altar of the future!"
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Yeah thats why I think they should just go ahead and let mage armor have the inherant lmc and stamina protection. I mean its not like the stamina protection will do much for mages anyway. And while the lmc bonus would certainly be nice it's not likes its an extra 15% sdi or dci or something else that I think even all of us could agree would be unbalancing. So I think they should go ahead remove the penalties and get on with some other tweaks. Maybe cap the inherant lmc at 50% if you have mage armor on. Rather then going back and trying to find yet another way to balance armor. Because while I do like your inherant HCI idea for instance there is bound to be someone that goes well wait a minute that doesn;t work! it should be this bonus! and so on and so forth. Also to be honest I still like the inherant lmc more lol! Which is kinda messed up when you think about it. Because as a warrior I should be more worried about warrior things like hci hld and so on not mana..but because warriors are extremely dependant on mana the lmc is actually still more useful to me and probably many/most other warriors.
Your idea of making all armor meddable BUT making it so that different types still have different uses is a good one too. The hard part of course would be coming up with the different properties that would make all armor types useful. You would probably have to put different properties on each type. Because lets say you decided lets put inherant hci on what were the nonmed armors. Well people would just use whatever has the most inherant hci. If you made the numbers the same well people would use whatever was cheapest/easiest to make. A problem that even with the current proposal we are going to see to some degree I mean most will probably choose studded over bone for instance. So then you would have to come up with different inherant properties or whatever to put on each type of armor. But at the same time make sure that there isn;t any clear "better" choice that everyone will flock to anyway. Basically while I like the idea I think it could likely lead to just more headaches and balancing issues.
So ultimately I am still a fan of what they have up on test center right now. It just needs a few tweaks like removing mage armor penalties. Which admittingly I know I was a fan of before..but I donlt think I thought through the benefits and penalties enough. The stamina and lmc bonuses combined with having meddable armor would actually be more useful to a warrior anyway well probably lol! But warrior suits are so cramped anyway I doubt you would see warriors actually use it. I mean I just played around with the imbuing calculator and came to the conclusion that there is no way I would do it lol! Even if I didn;t play on Siege
That's funny bro.
I started playing 14+ years ago on Chessy and only played/dueled on my main mage for a long time. Just because long ago I decided that I have a lot more fun playing a warrior does not mean I cannot play any other class. But I guess you are another scary mage that looks down on everyone else because you think they lack the intelligence and talent to run your template. Setting more macros is so very tricky lol.
Ask yourself how many times you died to a warrior and then started ranting at him to "get on a mage"
Happens all night long bro. True story.
My idea of fun is fighting 1 vs 1 and killing people. I guess your idea of fun is playing your so-called superior template and then complaining when things go bad.
I'm trying to decide if you were being sarcastic/silly when you typed that or if this has actually been announced somewhere. I couldn't find any post in the Developer Feed forum or the Test Center forum from Bleak or Kyronix that said this. Is it something they said to someone on Test Center?
Help! I'm trying hard to keep up with reading this thread but you lost me there. Thanks!
That is looking good! Maybe a horned or barbed leather can get a random DCI roll and maybe add DCI to Dull? I don't know but I'm down with your idea.
I still think weapons need to come down in inherent swing speed to give melee characters a chance to use them. Faster inherent swing speed on weapons would allow us to use less stamina and give a bit more mana wiggle room on the suits. Personally I really want to see more weapon skins become usable. This might be a stupid idea but if weapons speeded up and caused to much damage, how about a melee damage cap for pvp.
Spell Breaker
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I understand where you are coming from but I think the changes are being made to make stamina more important and less and an automatic crutch as it is now.. For example things the Dev's are changing; add diminishing returns to stamina leech, making hits from weapons take more stamina, giving non med armor the abiility to protect against stamina loss. They even tried to get rid of total refresh, make them greater refresh and add a timer to potion use (which seems to have been axed but am prob one of the only people that thought was a good change). I think you are wrong in your assessment that the changes are being put in place to free up mana for warriors but I think that the added LMC is an artifact of making stamina valuable but would require warriors to make adjustments that would make mana an issue for warriors. I imagine this is why Mage Armor has caused such an issue and why lmc was the inherent bonus given to non-med armor
I could be wrong as well, I am not inside the Dev's heads and we are seeing the same things but coming to different conclusions..
Although I consider myself a role-player first, I do engage in both pvp and pvm but I currenlty engage in more pvp. The changes you are proposing would make pvp very bland. The last thing I'd want to see in pvp is all swing speeds max'd out, all damages the same, massive mana pools to endlessly use specials... unless you changed the name to regulars.
Basically what you are asking for is for the Dev's to make stamina even Less Important so people can use any weapon available and max swing it without worry about total stamina, stamina regen, potions, elimante mods like Stamina Regen (which until this publish were almost wasted useless anyway), ssi, The Focus Skill (which provides both stamina regen and mana regen) and spells like Divine Fury, mods like ssi and then cap max damage in PvP...
I see so many people posting that with the proposed changes, they are unable to keep stamina high??? My first question is how much skill have you put into Focus, how much stamina regen have you invested in the suit, how often you incorporate potions while fighting, did you invest in chiv which provides a means to increase stamina (and swing speed) and now how much heavy armor are you wearing?? How much ssi do you have, have much have you invested Dex? How heavy and damaging is the weapon you are using? If your answer is, I shouldn't need to do those things to max swing my heavy weapons; All I need is Stamina leech on my wep to keep me maxed out....
That might be an indication that there is a problem.
This is pretty much the reason I do not enjoy pvm in UO as it is now... My biased and jaded view looks at pvm as something like suiting up a gimp pvm template like the "sampire", standing in front of a monster for a few minutes with a billion hit points while you sip a latte and check facebook. Perhaps this is a little dramatic but I think the changes you are hoping to see would just make the game even more like this and I hope the changes they are proposing make pvm a little more interesting then it is now.
Lore's Player
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There is a melee damage cap of 35 for pvp I think. Not a fan of any randomness myself. I think maybe a few melee weapons need to either come down in speed by a little bit either that or base damage needs to be looked at. But to be honest a big reason many of these are not used isn;t just because of speed its the specials. I donlt think just making everything much faster is the answer though, maybe a little faster though like any melee weapon 4.0s and over should have its speed increased.
Regarding removal of mage armor: two things on this.
One: Without commenting on whether or not it's adding too much, which some seem to be arguing, I will say that it'll solve another problem that's been talked about (at least potentially will solve this): Mage armor on Samurai Plate. Some have asked for its removal in order to facilitate Imbuing.
Two: I, like others, had the impression the team floated this notion but also can't remember where or when or under what circumstances.
Regarding Stamina Loss: I request an important clarification from those who've tested things. Is Stamina loss in the current draft of the Publish the same as, lesser than, or greater than currently on the Production Shards.
-Galen's player
One: Without commenting on whether or not it's adding too much, which some seem to be arguing, I will say that it'll solve another problem that's been talked about (at least potentially will solve this): Mage armor on Samurai Plate. Some have asked for its removal in order to facilitate Imbuing.
Two: I, like others, had the impression the team floated this notion but also can't remember where or when or under what circumstances.
Regarding Stamina Loss: I request an important clarification from those who've tested things. Is Stamina loss in the current draft of the Publish the same as, lesser than, or greater than currently on the Production Shards.
-Galen's player
Yeah I really donlt think making all weapons fast and do the same damage is the answer. I think the lmc thing is because they realize that mana is super important to warriors. I think its the same reason the first patch notes had the mana burst thing. As for mage armor I am of the opinion now they should just let it have benefits of the armor type it is on.
I do think someone posted before that they tested the changes and stamina leech and divine fury with the nerfs were not enough to keep up their stamina. So those might have been nerfed too much. However I donlt remember them saying anything about having stamina regen, focus and I believe they admited that they didn;t drink a pot. Personally while I didn;t do any real extensive testing in full plate armor for instance I found that I had to get quite low on health before I lost any stamina. I did lose stamina much quicker in studded and regular leather though. But studded was still an improvement from regular leather.
But I think you have a point here. I think for the stamina reduction on armor to really have meaning stamina can;t be so easy to maintain. I also hope this leads to more interesting pvm.
Stamina loss with regular leather didn;t seem any worse then it is on production shards. I will have to do more testing though to be sure. It seems the same though. However according to what others have said stamina leech and divine fury have been noticably nerfed.
KLOMP super-post ahead where I respond to everyone! Glance it over, I probably responded to you!
Just removing the Mage Armor penalty does at least cut a couple of steps out of the "swallowed a bird to catch the spider to catch the fly" nerf cascade. Doesn't really help them figure out WTF to do with base-medable dexer arties though. I can't shake the feeling that dividing armor into medable and non-medable categories is an idea whose time basically passed with the coming of AOS ten years ago.
I think they might just tell everyone "Well your Mace & Shields are your sixth piece that doesn't count toward inherent bonuses anyway!" and then throw all the leather and cloth based Doom/Tokuno/Ilshenar dexer arties under the bus since they're not top-tier. I think there's at least one Abyss artifact that would end up in the toilet too, but it's one that isn't very popular.
So what you do is take a range, say from 2 seconds to X seconds, where X is the speed of the slowest melee weapon people with a clue commonly use right now. Then you redistribute weapons across that range, with none being slower than X, and normalize damage to speed to keep things balanced. Then everyone still needs as much stamina as they do now, they just have a larger selection of weapons.
I think the balance issues would be relatively easily contained, actually. Like if a full plate suit gives 10 HCI or whatever and you decide that's too much? Then knock it down to 5 or change it to something else in a patch. No one is going to log in and go "Argh I can't play anymore because I'm down 5 HCI, it's like a different character now!" Or if they do, you know not to take it seriously.
Just removing the Mage Armor penalty does at least cut a couple of steps out of the "swallowed a bird to catch the spider to catch the fly" nerf cascade. Doesn't really help them figure out WTF to do with base-medable dexer arties though. I can't shake the feeling that dividing armor into medable and non-medable categories is an idea whose time basically passed with the coming of AOS ten years ago.
I think they might just tell everyone "Well your Mace & Shields are your sixth piece that doesn't count toward inherent bonuses anyway!" and then throw all the leather and cloth based Doom/Tokuno/Ilshenar dexer arties under the bus since they're not top-tier. I think there's at least one Abyss artifact that would end up in the toilet too, but it's one that isn't very popular.
Yeah supposedly they said it "out loud" on Test Center. I'm just running with it until I hear something official.
Yeah, I mean, whatever properties. I'm not attached to any specific ones. Attaching these inherent properties to materials, though, would change the whole paradigm. I'm not saying it couldn't work, but it would be so different as to be a completely separate idea.
I'm with him on making weapons faster, but for me it's about usability rather than stamina/mana balance. I mean right now nobody is ever going to use a war mace. Period. It's just too bloody slow. It may as well not exist.
So what you do is take a range, say from 2 seconds to X seconds, where X is the speed of the slowest melee weapon people with a clue commonly use right now. Then you redistribute weapons across that range, with none being slower than X, and normalize damage to speed to keep things balanced. Then everyone still needs as much stamina as they do now, they just have a larger selection of weapons.
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My testing showed that the stamina loss for blacksmith(metal )armor is less than current production shard. It is almost nonexistent until you get to less than half of your health. At that time you will lose about the same as now. With woodland armor the initial loss is still less than current production shards and has the same as the metal once you get to less than half health. My issue was with the diminishing returns on the Stamina leech. I was unable to sustain swing speed during a fight. I do not know how the diminish returns thing works and no-one has explained it anywhere that I can find. I did also notice that if you go into a fight with not all of your stamina while wearing woodland armor that you will not lose any stamina until you hit the lower health stamina loss.
Another issue is that while maintaining stamina affects the swing speed it is also affects the time for applying a bandage. So The dev's should consider this when scaling the diminishing returns of stamina leech.
What were you fighting and what was your template? (I'm sorry if you posted this already, it's been a long thread.) I took my sampy to TC and didn't have problems, except for the Momentum Strike bug, but then I didn't do anything terribly difficult either.
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I copied two of my production characters over with their current suits and fought swoops.
Human character is a warrior (swords) with bushido, no necromancy. He has a full plate suit and with the stamina loss changes he will most likely not be affected and will be left alone.
Elf character Wearing woodland armor, This character is my tank. He has mace for weapon skill and runs with 120 focus with about 14 hit point regen. Skills for him are
- 120 mace
- 100 tactics
- 100 anatomy
- 120 focus
- 100 myst
- 108 chiv
- ?? healing
Yeah my results with metal armor were pretty much the same I had to get to half health maybe even less before I lost any stamina. With studded/boned it came much quicker but there was still a noticable upgrade from regular leather. I didn;t do much more testing then letting monsters hit me and watching my health and stamina lol!
This is my concern, With the testing the changes most of us are just testing one component of the changes. While the stamina loss changes with the different armor types seem alright to me alone, once you tie in the stamina leech diminishing return you start to see the issues of maintaining your abilities that are tied to high stamina. They are also lowering all ways of maintaining your stamina with the total refresh and divine fury adjustments.
I will admit that I have not even bothered with the refinement part of this.
These stamina leech changes seem rather odd. I wonder if you are right and maybe monsters have a pool of stamina that you now deplete? Did it seem the swoop was attacking any slower or was it hitting you just as hard and fast? It would be nice to get an explaination of how its supposed to work. I am of the opinion that it should take more then just having stamina leech on your weapon, but at the same time this seems a bit too heavy of a penalty. I think someone using 120 focus with divinefury and stamina leech should be able to maintain their stamina. I think maybe the nerfs to divine fury and and stamina leech were just a bit too much.
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Just a correction, Dex is the defining category for healing time. Stamina has no effect on healing time.
Separate correction. The 35 damage cap only applies to the direct damage from armor ignore in PvP. (Can be exceeded in certain cases). Regular hits have no cap on damage.
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Ahh good point.
Ahh ok good to know!
Yeah I am going to have to get on test one day soon and test a template out and see how an actual fight goes. I really want to see for instance if my abc archer would do ok in studded armor. I have tested refinement a little bit but not much lol.
Gonna have to double check this as My bandages seemed to be taking longer as my stamina was lower. I was more focused on watching the numbers of damage taken and what my stamina was so I could be wrong in my assumption.
The swoop did not seem to be slowing down.
Yeah uh... a wandering dev might want to explain what "diminishing returns" means exactly. Because if it just means 60% isn't really twice as good as 30% the way one would intuitively expect, then whatever, we'll cope. But if it means stamina leech actually does less and less as a given fight goes by, that's sort of a horrible melee nerf.
My sampire (in 4 parts plate and 2 parts studded/bone with a 50% stam leech weapon) can't lose stamina if he tries on TC. I'm never below full health for very long unless my face is getting rocked, my stamina never seems to drop unless I'm getting hit for 50+ damage, and if I'm taking multiple hits that hard in short order then I'm too dead to leech any stamina anyway.
Would like to see more test data on this, preferably from non-sampires, but non-sampire melees who already own decent nonmed suits are rare. Wish they'd give you real imbuing ingredients on TC so you could make armor there. Seems kinda difficult to test armor changes otherwise.
Would like to see more test data on this, preferably from non-sampires, but non-sampire melees who already own decent nonmed suits are rare. Wish they'd give you real imbuing ingredients on TC so you could make armor there. Seems kinda difficult to test armor changes otherwise.
I think Klomp you have the definition pretty dead on, that is exactly how dimishing returns works.
Thank you for the information, and exactly my concern with the Divine Fury nerf.... I think reducing the stamina bonus is necessary to keep balance with the overall stamina changes (you don't want one avenue of stamina regen to be so much better then the rest) BUT the DCI negative should be reduced to offset the reduction in stamina particularly at higher skill levels of Chiv.... Your character had 108 which is a big investment and Galen would prob know exactly but I think that is still in the neighborhood of -15 DCI.
No, stamina leech doesn't actually take away stamina (nor mana leech) but the new properties of Hit Fatigue and Mana Drain do. However these effects do not return stamina.
Hit Fatigue info from UO Guide:
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- -Gargish War Hammer & War Hammer, Base damage 17-20 / Weapon Speed 3.75 seconds
- -War Mace, Base damage 16-20 / Weapon Speed 4 seconds
I work my swing rates backwards but there is the math... start with (1.25 base)+ ( add .25 for every 10 ssi), (add .25 for every 30 stamina) = (weapon speed you can swing at max rate)
1.25(base) + 1.25 (50 ssi) +1.50 (6) = 4.00 or max speed for any wep 4.00 or slower.
Theoretically you can swing a weapon of 4.50 at max speed if you have the right suit.
1.25(base) + 1.50 (60ssi) + 1.75 (210 stamina) = 4.50
Again a plate suit would give you the stamina protection (in theory based changes and test results so far) to keep from losing stamina add in that you can add balance to 2 handed weapons and the use of stamina potions in addition to restore stamina if you take big damage.... plus focus, Stam regen and chiv possibilities...
However I do see one inconsistency that is interesting in all this.... the damages of a War Mace and War Hammer should be reversed.... The War Mace does less damage (16-20) vs (17-20) but swings slower by a tick (4.0) vs (3.75)... perhpas
Hope this makes sense and I could talk about why max swing speed is important in PVP (pretty obvious) But there are times it is not as benefical to use a non maxed out weapon ie there are situations in a battle I use non-maxed out weapons for specific purpose that using a maxed out weapon would actually be worse.
I think when this hits production shards there will be a learning curse and suddenly a ton of two handed plate mail wearing fast swinging pvp monsters out there....
You can boost stamina above 180, invest in higher end items to get ssi maxed out at 60 (cap) use the plate changes, drop chiv (if you wanted) add more focus and basically keep your character swinging this monster weapon at max speed all day.
-Lore's Player
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Yeah and while I am of the opinion that it should take more then just stamina leech alone, what we have on test seems to be too much of a nerf. I mean in zamot's case for instance I think if you are using nonmed armor with 120 focus with stamina leech and divine fury you shouldn;t be having as much trouble as he was.
Well my sampire didn't feel one little bit of it even over the course of a lengthy fight, so if that's really how it works, then it's primarily a nerf to non-sampire melee. Which, let's face it, was already an endangered species.
...for a microsecond before they run away chugging refresh potions, right? I mean I'm no PVP expert, but they took the cooldown back off the potions, and the difference between "total refresh" and "greater refresh" is likely to be academic to some leather-clad mage with a relatively tiny stamina pool. Besides, I thought Pub 81 stamina loss in leather was supposed to be more-or-less the same as stamina loss on current production shards. So what's the difference?
I mean come on, nobody is actually going to dedicate their lives to that whole "justify this one weapon even if you have to do weird stuff like spam divine fury" campaign you just laid out. And even if they did, that doesn't help all the viking swords and halberds and bardiches and other junk nobody has picked up in ten years. If hit fatigue turns out to be awesome, everyone will still want it on as fast a weapon as possible.
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Yeah and yet his sampire was fine, my sampire was fine, and we haven't even done any stupid **** like crank our DCI up into the 90's yet. I have a feeling this is all going to be the publish where sampires become invincible and the last non-sampire melees finally give up.
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So has hit life leech been changed with this new Pub? Wouldn't keeping your health up help with the Stam lose?
To be clear I never said they were trying to free up mana. I was submitting an idea that would lower the strenuous need for so much stamina (in my opinion) for slow weapons. The method I submitted was to lower the speed of weapons, which would lower the need for high stamina thus giving the option to add mana. I apologize this was not more clear.
I never said to lower the weapon speed so much that "people can use any weapon available and max swing it". I was only proposing to lower it and that could mean .25 seconds or more. .25 would still not make all weapons usable. So since I'm trying to be more clear I would like to see more then .25 on SOME of the weapons mainly anything that takes over 4s to swing at 80 dex + 30 SSI.
After lowering the weapon speeds down say .25 (or more) folks will still need a boat load of stamina and ssi to swing big weapons. Getting the swing speed down a bit will make some nice looking weapons available. Old school hallie would be wonderful to even swing a 1.50. Currently you need 40 ssi + 200 stamina to swing the Halberd at 1.75 which in my opinion will not fly at a spawn. Maybe in other cases this would be fine, however I can't thing of one that I would use.
I don't have the answer I was only submitting something to provoke thought in a positive light. I want to apologize for any miss leading statement that lead anyone to believe I was saying all weapons should have max ssi.
Thanks for your feedback and perception on this matter. I have to tell you this, on Baja we are so slow you really need to have some kind of way to be able to solo bosses and or spawns. You can't find people on slow shard to play with 24/7. Sometimes you can but not always. In my opinion solo builds are necessary unless they close slow shards. I don't know the answer here but I guess they could scale a monsters "billion hit points" down to closely match amount of real players it encountering.
Thanks again or all your feedback and thought provoking ideas!
Spell Breaker
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Aloha Klomp,
In the first pub 81 release I didn't notice any stamina issues at first. I was able to take my cloned sampire to Doom and have my way in each room with out stamina issues. As soon as I was taking on the DF the bones started popping and THEN as I was getting hit by more then one monster. My stamina got killed so fast when more then one monster was hitting me I died. I run a black staff for weapon and use parry, so clearly I wont be using the balance imbuing feature as that will only allow me to take more hits.
I have not re-tested since part 2 of publish 81 has came out but I will. If you have not already see how your stamina holds up when you have gang of monsters around you like you would in a spawn or when your fighting the DF.
Hope that information helps!
Spell Breaker
The new status bar that you see if you log in using client_tc shows you your DCI, so it seems like it should be possible to watch what's happening with it if you use it when you log on TC. (You find it in the same folder as the regular client, but the name is "client_tc.exe." Be sure to "run as administrator.")
This is what I found on Stratics about the Divine Fury spell: "Temporarily increases the Paladin’s swing speed, chance to hit, and damage dealt, while lowering the Paladin’s defenses. Upon casting, some of the Paladin’s Stamina is also refreshed. Duration of the spell is affected by caster’s Karma. The effect lasts for 7 to 24 seconds. At elder and above the defence chance penalty is reduced."
However, the publish 81 notes released on 2/23 included this line: "Chivalry: Divine Fury stamina regenerated decreased to 2.5x duration from 4x duration."
So does that mean that, at most, it will only last 17.5 seconds, depending on your character's karma?
And is -15 DCI the penalty up to 110.1 chivalry skill, or am I reading everything wrong? (I'm so ignorant on this stuff, so hopefully you can bear with my dumb questions/comments.)
Question:
Why is the dev team trying to reduce stamina regen in way, shape or form in the first place?
They are taking the most critical aspect of all warrior templates(pvp or pvm)and completely messing with it all in the name of armor diversity?
That's completely asinine on all levels imo.
Just sayin...
Why is the dev team trying to reduce stamina regen in way, shape or form in the first place?
They are taking the most critical aspect of all warrior templates(pvp or pvm)and completely messing with it all in the name of armor diversity?
That's completely asinine on all levels imo.
Just sayin...
No offense but we are all going down a bad road if we start changing/adjusting the entire game to suit slower shards for any reason imo
Bosses should not be able to be soloed, period. There are plenty of other things to kill solo that still give amazing loot. You cant have everything on one char. That goes for pvp and pvm
Aloha Tina,
I will do a test today and see what the penalty is. Also I HOPE everyone is use the "Client_TC" when doing their test otherwise they are not going to be reporting the stamina and other changes accurately.
Spell Breaker
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Aloha Goldberg,
I can tell you first hand most shards are slow. I also play on Hokuto and guess what... We love sampires over here as well
My disclaimer is this - I am only submitting ideas and trying not to bash anyone that has ideas or feedback. I am also not insisting that the ideas I post go into fruition as they clearly need refinement and others input.
My question to you is about your statement "There are plenty of other things to kill solo that still give amazing loot". Can you give an example or two of what is amazing loot and what types of things one would solo kill. Be sure to include what type of character you would recommend. I want to hit test shard with your feedback and give it a try in publish 81.
Thanks!
Spell Breaker
I think they did this to push warriors into plate or thicker armors. But I'm no fan of diminishing returns. It is the nice way of saying we are capping. Since armor changes are the focus of this publish, I don't see why stam leech cant be based on armor as well where plate decreases leech and and leather gives the most leech return. If the changes go into effect as is, I don't see why melee wouldn't convert to plate. But tiered stam leech on lesser armors would enable archers and throwers to find a more of middle ground with their armor.
On my basic Sampire with average gear I kill Wind Eles and Unbound Vortex solo in Shame all day long and get amazing loot.Aloha Goldberg,
I can tell you first hand most shards are slow. I also play on Hokuto and guess what... We love sampires over here as well
My disclaimer is this - I am only submitting ideas and trying not to bash anyone that has ideas or feedback. I am also not insisting that the ideas I post go into fruition as they clearly need refinement and others input.
My question to you is about your statement "There are plenty of other things to kill solo that still give amazing loot". Can you give an example or two of what is amazing loot and what types of things one would solo kill. Be sure to include what type of character you would recommend. I want to hit test shard with your feedback and give it a try in publish 81.
Thanks!
Spell Breaker
Clean 10 ssi jewels & 20 splinter weapons can be had by anyone there. Along with every other type of gear.
The amount of gold I can make there in one day/week/month will buy any number of cinctures, tangles, etc...
And there really is currently not much more challenge soloing Bosses so whats the real motivation/issue here?
Quite simply some players just seem to believe that they should be able to log in solo everyday and be able to do everything they want on one template. That should not be possible in pvp or pvm and the devs have gone to great lengths to try and keep it that way for good reason.
OK, I did some more testing, not alot,but some more for clarification. I was fighting swoops previously with an elf with macing/mystic/focus at 120. I was not in stone form. I am wearing woodland suit with 14HPR. My weapon has 50% stamina leach.(diamond mace). I was able to maintain full stamina for about 5-10 swings. After this I was not able to keep my stamina up, and hence my swing speed went down. After killing the swoop and attacking a fresh one, I had the same results as the first one. I then went to try a different monster that I could kill in a few hits but would take damage as well. I went to the trogalites (clos enough to spelling). I was able to keep my stamina at almost full the entire time against multiple attackers. So anyone else testing this might want to try against a mob that takes awhile to kill. It seems that the diminishing returns is reset once a new mob is attacked.
awesome! I will give it a try tonight on the Test Center and see how I do against the unboud / pub 81.
Spell Breaker
It's not the setting of macros that is tricky (although organizing them does take some strategy), but mastering them and learning to use them in unique situations.
I don't tell people to "get on a mage," because I would prefer it if Fel wasn't completely full of mages. As a matter of fact, I like fighting different templates, because different conflicts call for different resolutions and I prefer to have unique challenges; otherwise I wouldn't do anything but pure mage duel. But even though I like to embrace challenges, I also think it's a bit silly that a mage can invest a lot of time and effort into learning mage (and it takes a long time to pick up), and lose to someone on another template that requires so little experience, ingenuity, and raw skill.
I think when mages "cry" that whoever they lost to would presumably not be as good on a mage, it is in a way justified, but still none the less silly. It is silly because they are assuming that just 'cause someone is playing another template, they can't also play a mage. It is also silly, because trash talk in general accomplishes nothing, but that's besides the point. But even though that may be so, I also think it's even more ridiculous when someone on another template calls a mage "bad." Because as I've pointed out before, Mages *ARE* much harder (generally speaking) to play than other templates. Also, when a mage tells someone to "get on a mage" it usually seems to be in response to a player of another template talking trash to the mage; And one should not presumably judge a mage to be bad, unless they too play a mage and see how hard it is. That is the unique case in which I think it is somewhat justified. But as I said, trash talk in general is stupid and pointless. It's all about "Ego's and E-peen's." And personally, I had the most fun playing the game when I was a complete noob. I'm usually very friendly in game; and if you don't believe that, you can ask my friends
.I can understand why you're referring to me as a "complainer," after all, I did call you a noob
. But I assure you, my arguing of the point that Throwers are overpowered is far from complaining. Although admittedly, I do complain in secret (to myself), I'm not here on the forums to complain or rage over it. I'm here to pose logical points explaining why I think Throwers are overpowered and why I think they need to be nerfed, as well as why a class like an Archer needs a good buffing. I just throw the occasional insult if I think someone is trolling me, or if I think that they are, in my opinion, arguing in an insulting manner... despite not being a big fan of trash talk Yeah the first thing I did was run to Titan Valley near Honesty in Ilshenar, gather up a big crowd of spawn, and then whack it all to death one-by-one. No problems besides the Momentum Strike bug, no meaningful stamina loss. I figured this was too low-end to be very helpful though, so I took off for the Abyss.
I jumped into the Renowned Pixie mini-champ spawn and began working it up. Quite often I found myself either swarmed by pixies, due to my negative karma, or fighting several dark wisps and the undead they created simultaneously. No issues besides the Momentum Strike bug, no stamina problems.
Finally the boss popped, so I honored her, cast Curse Weapon, and started beating on her with a war axe imbued with max mana and stamina leeches. No issues, and the occasional small bit of stamina lost to a big hit was easily leeched back even late in the fight. I beat her down to like 15% health before deciding I'd seen all the "diminishing returns" I was going to see and ran off.
Then I found the Renowned Wyvern boss already popped, so even though I didn't have a slayer with me I started wailing on him. Taking 60 damage from fire breath made me lose a big chunk of stamina, but at that point, as is typical of UO, I stood there going whiff-whiff-whiff over and over even with 120 macing and 45 HCI until I died. Normally I'd have run off to heal, but this was the first time I had seen my stamina drop and I wanted to see how leeching worked.
We need a really high-end sampire to test this stuff and report back, but as far as my middling little sampy is concerned all I've gotten are buffs. If anything the meme that "melee = sampire" is only going to become more true, it seems.
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Yeah they have to make some changes here. They did say they are going to do something about hld overcapping or something like that. So hopefully that means the end of the 95% dci cap. Because that was just a bad idea lol.
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Well I think Cetric says he uses a bardiche hehe. I think it would useful in certain situations. Personally I can;t think of any situation I have been in in which I would use one. Halberds can be pretty nice in pvm think they will be very nice next patch in certain situations. Donlt think I have ever heard of a viking sword being used though. But a bit problem with a lot of weapons isn;t the speed *well that is a problem with some* but the specials. Some you could make them super fast I bet and people would still go eh that weapon sucks.
I do agree I donlt think you will be able to take anyone down to 0 stamina in pvp. People would just drink a pot before you could do that.
Hmm I donlt think it has been. I just went through the notes again and it seems only stamina leech as been changed. But you may be on to something here I may test it later.