Nah I didn't watch it.... I was at the event myself... one helping of Hey Idiot was more then enough.
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How about we cut the candy ^*& BS and give EMs some POWER to deal with losers!!
KEKEKEKEEKEKEKE, we did try that. It didnt work. The Idiot continued and the EM canceled the event.
While I have liked the freedom in UO; at the same time the lack of really anything to stop griefing has always troubled me. Oh joy, you can kill their pixel character... yeah..... and they can still continue to grief you.
UO's sad response to griefing (and in my opinion their open support of griefing) is to run away, go somewhere else- which isn't an answer. It's the reason UO lost more than 60% of it's play base early on. Because people could be a$$h0les unchecked. Almost the entire culture of UO not only supports, but encourages griefing.
UO's sad response to griefing (and in my opinion their open support of griefing) is to run away, go somewhere else- which isn't an answer. It's the reason UO lost more than 60% of it's play base early on. Because people could be a$$h0les unchecked. Almost the entire culture of UO not only supports, but encourages griefing.
I think the EM should have continued.
No, it's really just the same people over and over, at least on Atlantic. I don't begrudge them it, but I also don't feel like EA is obligated to pay their rent for them. More than once I've seen Messanna and/or the EM insist to a complaining crowd that the drop mechanism is impartial and unbiased, and I believe them. I just don't care.
I'm not sure how you think these are even remotely similar things. The events are there to provide entertainment for the playerbase. If your argument is that for a certain subset of players, preventing the event from moving forward and doing everything they can to get in the way of the event, and to chastise, berate, and belittle EMs and players alike is the entertainment being provided to them, then you're way off base. EM Events are not entertainment at the expense of others, they are entertainment for the purpose of the enjoyment of others. Griefing comes at the expense of others.
You refer to something that was in the past, and while I agree that stealing was not griefing, as the skill was doing exactly as intended, there were definitely exploits involved in the stealing skill that were used in the early days to prevent the remainder of the stealing skill from functioning as intended. For instance, stealing something and tossing it directly in the bank before the other person could call guards was against the notion that players were generally safe in town as long as they were paying attention -- thus you suddenly could not put stolen items in the bank until your flag wore off. However, stealing has been left fairly alone with regard to other players for the majority of UO's time; stealing is simply incompatible with Trammel, and so you can't be stolen from in Trammel. Stealing has functioned in largely the same manner for the majority of 15 years in Felucca -- there's just no one to steal from.
Others might call it respecting the event moderators and doing what they are asked. "Metagaming" is certainly an issue with EM events, but that does not equate to it suddenly being okay to ignore them and grief them and demand items and tell them that they're plotline is stupid and stand on them and harrass them. You're not even working with equivalent comparisons here. It'd be one thing if a "griefer" was standing around "in character" and interacting with the EM NPC, but even then, if the EM asks for space, it's respecting the game and doing what one is asked. Think of it this way... Dungeons & Dragons is a roleplaying game. When the DM asks you to roll a die, that's "metagaming," but you don't refuse to roll the die because the DM will simply kill your character or roll the die for you. There are certain conventions in any game that EVERYONE obeys. In UO, one of those conventions definitely should be, "If an EM asks you to do something for the sake of an event, YOU DO IT."
Well, the thing is, you're absolutely 100% wrong in your defense of griefing. Please stop pretending that these activities are anyting but what they are. To call them anything else is a disservice to the remainder of the players of the game. Your suggestion that an EM event should have to move to a house where a player can be banned just so that they can continue with an event is ludicrous. Essentially you're saying that EM events should only take place in controlled areas.
What's funnier is that a ban, whether permanent or temporary, from the game is the Shard-wide version of a house ban. I ban you from my house, you can't get in. You get banned from the game, you can't get in. And yes, these activities ARE severe enough to be dealt with in a heavy-handed manner. It is neither fair nor approrpiate that the EMs should go through the problem of creating these events to have them griefed, nor is it fair or proper that other players who are behaving themselves -- even if bored with the plot and just want to get to the shiney things at the end -- have to sit through these kinds of disturbances just to proceed.
And, no offense, but banning a player for misbehaving at sanctioned events IS handling it in-game. Maybe you think the price is too high, but I'll tell you what... EM events that have to be held in houses just so that they can ban bad players from the house limits the style and type of events that can take place, and it is no solution for griefers.
Why you seem hellbent on defending and redefining griefing is beyond me, but you're swiftly working yourself to the end of a very, very thin branch.
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They could certainly be given the power to jail a player indefinitely until GM review. What powers are given to independent contractors, unsurprisingly, is up to Mythic, not to the playerbase.
I suspect you would find that Mesanna disagrees in spirit and in practice about that statement. Realistically, it should fall to the GMs, but there isn't much by way of a GM staff at present. However, I'll compromise with you and say that there should definitely be a GM on duty at EM event times, and that an EM should be able to request GM intervention to handle disruptive players.
But, for the sake of simplicity, my "perfect" response would be for the Developers to give the EMs a tool that jails a player with a box for a reason that the EM enters in, places the player in jail until a GM can attend to him/her (which is moved to the front of the queue), and then, based on that player's record, it becomes a 24-hour, 48-hour, 72-hour, and then permanent ban. Give 'em three strikes, and if it happens again, goodbye.
Make the technology work for the EMs, but give the EMs the power to initiate against nuissance players.
No, they really couldn't.
Probably not, since that is pretty much a direct quote from her. Admittedly, that was about 3 years ago and, while things change, I doubt that has.
Quite simply, that isn't going to happen. EMs aren't employees and you can't have non-employees doing things like that.
Actually EMs are employees. Part time it's true, but employees nonetheless. EA can't use volunteer staff in any context after the debacle some years ago
Bear in mind that whatever powers the EMs are given - or sometimes only perceived to have, whether real or imaginary, someone, somewhere, will accuse them of misusing it.
There is already a culture of accusing them of bias whenever someone doesn't get what they think they should have. Mostly totally unfounded.
Give them the power to remove troublemakers from their events and said troublemakers are guaranteed to be on here next day claiming the EM evicted them for no reason so that the EM's 'buddies' got all the goodies.
They already altered the EM giveaways from useful items with properties to useless trinkets in an effort to curb problems. They reckoned without the community giving inflated value to said trinkets.
Bear in mind that whatever powers the EMs are given - or sometimes only perceived to have, whether real or imaginary, someone, somewhere, will accuse them of misusing it.
There is already a culture of accusing them of bias whenever someone doesn't get what they think they should have. Mostly totally unfounded.
Give them the power to remove troublemakers from their events and said troublemakers are guaranteed to be on here next day claiming the EM evicted them for no reason so that the EM's 'buddies' got all the goodies.
They already altered the EM giveaways from useful items with properties to useless trinkets in an effort to curb problems. They reckoned without the community giving inflated value to said trinkets.
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No, they are NOT. They are independent contractors.
There is significant difference between someone under contract and a part time employee.
Feel free to use your favorite search engine for the basics.
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oki, I misunderstood what you were saying. They are paid - as opposed to volunteers, but not directly employed. My apologies for that.
So the hardcore cross-sharders are making more money off the deal than the EM is.
I don't know why this is so hard to implement, people have been complaining about this ever since the beginning of EM Events!!!
I won't go to events because of the nonsense that goes on and the disrespect to the EM's. Back in the day they used to bump people to jail for grieving players and the GM would speak to them about their behavior.
in the 5th & 6th century they would send out the guards and just cut your freakin head off and be done with it. At the very least they lock you up until whenever.
EM events are more like 6th century King sanctioned gauntlets. Step out of line while the King was in he Open, and yeah you might just end up as dragon bait.
Ever since Rainz Killed Lord British it been this way in the land of Uo.
I don't like it at all, sometimes its funny and entertaining for a second but at some point Ultimate Power needs to be inserted to restore order for the event. So there for the TOS needs to be changed if need be. Or Stop the EM events all together.
I think they need to be held by a type of RP EM that is involved only with Uo. Someone that knows his/her subjects per shard/'s. Its the same premise they subject the players of Uo when it comes to game play. Get involved with others to advance game play.
So I say Off with their Heads and Let it be titled Hang it on a Pole during the Event for all to see. After the event is over players can loot the heads as a parting gift.
EM events are more like 6th century King sanctioned gauntlets. Step out of line while the King was in he Open, and yeah you might just end up as dragon bait.
Ever since Rainz Killed Lord British it been this way in the land of Uo.
I don't like it at all, sometimes its funny and entertaining for a second but at some point Ultimate Power needs to be inserted to restore order for the event. So there for the TOS needs to be changed if need be. Or Stop the EM events all together.
I think they need to be held by a type of RP EM that is involved only with Uo. Someone that knows his/her subjects per shard/'s. Its the same premise they subject the players of Uo when it comes to game play. Get involved with others to advance game play.
So I say Off with their Heads and Let it be titled Hang it on a Pole during the Event for all to see. After the event is over players can loot the heads as a parting gift.
As the culprit come forward , welcome to ignonre world.
You konw hwat you did was just plain being a ass and it is so sad that players of the like arre allowed to continue at these events. You are te problem.
Toodles
T
Tazar
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Tell that to Mesanna... I have seen her take direct action several times at EM events and at Player Run events.
T
Tazar
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They are contractors - but they are "Authorized" to host events on behalf of EA/Mythic/UO. The rule seems to apply in every way.
Griefing is a playstyle, has been since day one. Just because they added tram does not prevent rogues from enjoying the game too and they should be able to enjoy it in their own way. Where is it written that EM events are sacred cows that should not be interrupted? Not everything is my little pony, this is UO where the players write the story good or bad.
Let's be honest, do you seriously have fun with 100+ players crammed onto one screen trying to kill something they can't even see without using an all names macro? No, you don't. You do it for the pixel crack and the gold. EM events need this kind of drama to make them interesting, so stop whining.
Let's be honest, do you seriously have fun with 100+ players crammed onto one screen trying to kill something they can't even see without using an all names macro? No, you don't. You do it for the pixel crack and the gold. EM events need this kind of drama to make them interesting, so stop whining.
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They could certainly have the power to telestorm though and have done previously. I remember players being whipped away with a single lightning bolt effect in the original EM program.
T
Tazar
Guest
What was the sword from the Magincia Invasion that had a chance to telestorm players to another facet? How about giving the EM's one of those that actually works 100% chance and have it telestorm to a no-recall zone like Fel-Lost-Lands so the offending player has to run back out?
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kelmo
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From the EA TOS:
11. Rules of Conduct
You may violate the Terms of Service if, as determined by EA in its sole discretion, you:
- Post, transmit, promote, or distribute Content that is illegal.
- Harass, threaten, embarrass, spam or do anything else to another player that is unwanted, such as repeatedly sending unwanted messages or making personal attacks or statements about race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc.
- Organize, effectuate or participate in any activity, group, guild that is harmful, abusive, hateful, racially, ethnically, religiously or otherwise offensive, obscene, threatening, bullying, vulgar, sexually explicit, defamatory, infringing, invasive of personal privacy or publicity rights, encourages conduct that would violate a law or in a reasonable person's view, objectionable and/or inappropriate. Hate speech is not tolerated.
- Use abusive, offensive, or defamatory screen names and/or personas.
- Engage in disruptive behavior in chat areas, game areas, forums, or any other area or aspect of EA Services. Disruptive behavior includes but is not limited to conduct which interferes with the normal flow of gameplay or dialogue within an EA Service. Disruptive behavior shall also include, but not be limited to, commercial postings, solicitations and advertisements.
- Disrupt the flow of chat in chat rooms with vulgar language, abusiveness, hitting the return key repeatedly or inputting large images so the screen goes by too fast to read, use of excessive shouting [all caps] in an attempt to disturb other users, "spamming" or flooding [posting repetitive text].
- Impersonate another person (including celebrities), indicate falsely that you are an EA employee or a representative of EA, or attempt to mislead users by indicating that you represent EA or any of EA's partners or affiliates
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In this case, personnel does not mean employees, just people authorized access to certain functions, areas, etc.
For example:
The United States government hires many, many, many independent contractors. They are not employees of the United States government, nor of the agencies that they are contracted to....however, they can be authorized access to restricted areas/functions/systems...They are in fact "Authorized Personnel".
Civilian companies do the same thing...a lot of companies contract out functions such as security, janitorial services, etc. These independent contractors also have access as "Authorized Personnel"
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Well................ The EM events of late have been interupted by alot of ill manered players..... To the point on many shards I play I wont go. I am not alone.... its so bad that on Origin alone 99% are Event only players from other shards that push the natives out and make it impossible to do.
There is something the EM's can do to players that have this penchant to disrupt the events ... on Bucks den there is the old shack at the second bridge where the GM's placed players who were unattended .... there was a time where it took a few to get free and use the gate to get out ... perhaps the Dev could set up this hut back to a timered place where the EM's could send with a single command line to this building for say a 5-10 minute time out. Shutting down the Chat ability so they cant spam the screen so the EMs can continue and give the rest of the crouds their attention.
Its only an idea
There is something the EM's can do to players that have this penchant to disrupt the events ... on Bucks den there is the old shack at the second bridge where the GM's placed players who were unattended .... there was a time where it took a few to get free and use the gate to get out ... perhaps the Dev could set up this hut back to a timered place where the EM's could send with a single command line to this building for say a 5-10 minute time out. Shutting down the Chat ability so they cant spam the screen so the EMs can continue and give the rest of the crouds their attention.
Its only an idea
Yes sir, Lets be honest.... do you really have fun when some jack in the box stands on an EM and spams VICTORY after he leaves like a crazy tween? NO YOU DONT (unless you are....). Honestly the ONLY people that thought Hey Idiot was cool yesterday are 13 year old girls. Which I would bet several accounts with castles is what he was aiming for.
Griefing is not a right. I dont really see how you people even come up with these silly defenses. Thankfully theres not many of you.
They crowd around the EM or the items he's placed for the event so that they are hidden from the players trying to take part in the event. Flapping gargoyle wings & pets are very effective at this. The griefer's can also talk and cast spells to mix in with the text of the EM's speech to make it impossible to read on screen. With the journal colors often leaving the journal text colors very hard to read, it's not much help either. Greifer's win, event participants lose.
One of the many reasons I stopped attending EM Events. A failed program as far as I'm concerned.
Until the EMs have a way to make the childish brats behave, the events are pretty much a waste of time to plan and try to have happen.
They just need to install a way for the EM to evict them from the event server. Send them to a jail cell where an annoyed nanny like NPC puts their character over her knee and spanks them and makes them stand in a corner for one hour in game time before they are free to go. They want to roleplay childish behavior, treat them as misbehaving children.
To be fair that was poorly designed event and it didn't take too long before a few was tamed... and the guy only spammed blocks at the end of the event.
the Em's do have more power then they let on, i have seen Em's move players away before.
the Em's do have more power then they let on, i have seen Em's move players away before.
kelmo
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Can an event be designed that is "grief" proof?
If EM's did have "more power", when during an event would they have time to use it? If any of you have ever run events before you must know that they are kinda involved... it is hard to run on the coordinator side, yet so simple to disrupt.
If EM's did have "more power", when during an event would they have time to use it? If any of you have ever run events before you must know that they are kinda involved... it is hard to run on the coordinator side, yet so simple to disrupt.
I just wanted to weigh in on this in case Mesanna is reading this. It's not only the "giveaway" events that things like this happen. At Lord Blackrthorn's coronation there were spammers and other annoying behaviors going on.
I think the gripes here are legit. I don't know what the answer is but events do need to be monitored and the problem children removed. I also haven't attended a lot of the events because of the annoyance factor. Something needs to change so that those who want the fun and interesting experiences can enjoy them.
I think the gripes here are legit. I don't know what the answer is but events do need to be monitored and the problem children removed. I also haven't attended a lot of the events because of the annoyance factor. Something needs to change so that those who want the fun and interesting experiences can enjoy them.
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The PvP and PK few are trying to throw a smoke screen. Some of those folks are trying to sell that PvP is the driving force of UO. That is false. Most of the players on Siege are not even PvPers much less PKers.
I could go with this. One per account, and still transferrable to other shards? One per account would make them not quite as coveted, since they'd wind up in more hands than the heretofore lucky few.
Tell you what. After 11 a.m. on March 17, in Manhattan, try crossing Fifth Avenue at, say, 45th street.
When events are publicized in advance, the nice thing for non-participants to do is say, "Hey, cool, let me get out of your way." Aren't there enough banks to find another? If it's in a dungeon, why don't you participate in what could be a fun event?
I'm not in favor of giving EMs more power to deal with specific troublemakers. To me, this just injects poison into the system. It gives griefers a larger platform to shout from as wrongly punished and enhances their ability to elevate complaints to management, even over Mesanna's head. And that will roll back down on her. Eventually if someone were determined enough, learned how to push EM buttons, and created the right environment, they could bring the entire system down. Posting video here to rub salt in the wound and generally **ss in everyone's wheaties. Nothing good will come of it.
First off.......
Any rep of EA/UO/Mythic has to walk a tightrope with the players....
I do not know the number of complaints to date on abuse of power but I can bet its not a low number!
Most of us are sane players who understand basic politeness in a group.
Again the But is .... there are some mind you who thrive on trouble, attention, and meyhiem. They cant sit still, or close their mouth(stop typing), or even start fights over stupid stuff. You cant stop them with a shhhh or an excuse me.
In Mesanna's case she has tried her best to control the masses when she can attend the events.... but I have seend poor Bonnie ready to pull her own hair out when the rabble start their stuff.
I am not saying that we have not had "bad" in the works of UO. They do try to weed them out with tight controls... but no system is perfect.
I proposed once that the gifts be pack dropped and common things of a more durable nature... but this was not to the liking..... I was silly to think the fun was in the partisapation.... when to a good deal its the gift that can make them $$$$$.
I for one would be happy with a tool of high use... or even a pretty deco that fit in UO. But thats me.
Any rep of EA/UO/Mythic has to walk a tightrope with the players....
I do not know the number of complaints to date on abuse of power but I can bet its not a low number!
Most of us are sane players who understand basic politeness in a group.
Again the But is .... there are some mind you who thrive on trouble, attention, and meyhiem. They cant sit still, or close their mouth(stop typing), or even start fights over stupid stuff. You cant stop them with a shhhh or an excuse me.
In Mesanna's case she has tried her best to control the masses when she can attend the events.... but I have seend poor Bonnie ready to pull her own hair out when the rabble start their stuff.
I am not saying that we have not had "bad" in the works of UO. They do try to weed them out with tight controls... but no system is perfect.
I proposed once that the gifts be pack dropped and common things of a more durable nature... but this was not to the liking..... I was silly to think the fun was in the partisapation.... when to a good deal its the gift that can make them $$$$$.
I for one would be happy with a tool of high use... or even a pretty deco that fit in UO. But thats me.
The "you" in this post is rhetorical, I'm not calling TBH out, just addressing those that take this stance.
I certainly hope that while you stick up for griefers you aren't one, and that you don't show up to these events with 100+ players crammed onto one screen trying to kill something they can't see without macros, solely for the sake of making that even more difficult for those that actually WANT to be there.
That being said, griefing is not a play style but it is a tactic. And bullies and rogues deserve to be unsavory and terrible in the game, they make being a hero or paladin that much more rewarding for those that want that sort of thing. But in what game would slowing play down until everyone quit be acceptable? Do you play monopoly and just stand on top of the board declaring the entire city condemned? Why would anyone ever want to play with you? Do folks do this sort of thing because they don't have friends? It's just beyond me that someone would run into the middle of a kickball game and stab the ball with a knife.
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Would it be possible to have the EM communicate in a separate journal display? At least players could then see, free from all the spam, everything that he is saying. Using two separate displays would still allow for all normal communication capabilities on the one display and read only capabilities on the other, accessible only by the EM and or his helpers.
How about having EM events on a separate server setup in the cloud and you have to sign up to participate in those EM events? Problem children who don't play well with others have a mark put on their account if they grief the event, and for the next five EM events, they can't sign up and participate, or get to the event to have their jollies griefing it.
Any complaints they make to EA management shouldn't go to far. There would be a documented history to back up the EM's actions. Record the event locations during the event. Jack Horserear griefs the event, it's recorded and can be watched by whoever handles Jack Horserear's complaint and they can see why he was barred from EM events.
Any complaints they make to EA management shouldn't go to far. There would be a documented history to back up the EM's actions. Record the event locations during the event. Jack Horserear griefs the event, it's recorded and can be watched by whoever handles Jack Horserear's complaint and they can see why he was barred from EM events.
I agree that it's unlikely, but, they certainly could do so if they wanted to. There's nothing other than Mythic's own policies preventing it. They are paid contractors, and giving them tools to enhance their jobs is not a bad idea.
What I suggest is a method by which there would be accountability, and the GMs would make the decisions based on the information provided. Probably won't happen, but it would be nice, because, simply put, doing nothing is rather a poor option at this point.
Well, like I've amended myself to include, I think there should be accountability to prevent abuse. Let's face it... a player gets banned and he comes here and cries his sob story anyway. That won't change. What might change is the number of griefers attending events, and that would be a good thing.
Wrong, ding, thanks for playing anyway.
Sure, I gripe about the dragons and the flappy gargoyles every week obstructing my view and making it difficult to target things, or when I don't get looting rights because something's borked with the looting right system.
But I do have fun with however many people show up, and I regularly interact with the EM characters at events in a productive way to help move the storyline forward. I enjoy taking part in the history of the shard, and I enjoy the events that the EMs put out for us to enjoy.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I guarantee that I care less about the pixel crack. Sure, if and when I get a piece, I am happy, and I lock it down in my public museum in a nice spot to preserve it for GL history. If I don't get one, oh well, life goes on. If someone else in the Vent channel I hang out in gets one, I offer my congratulations.
EM events do not need drama to make them interesting. If a person's only reason for attending an event is to grief it, they need not attend. I completely get that some people only show up for a shot at pixel crack, and that's fine too. Most of them just stand there and patiently go through the event, and take their chance on winning an item, even on weeks when there is no drop. To be blunt, one can be all about the pixel crack without also demonstrating an aptitude for inter-rectal cranial implant techniques.
Lol.
You just dont get it.
Events are nothing more then another cog in the machinery. A small part of the overall game.
Who are you to say that they should be made anything more then that? Why should they be granted any more importance then say a random orc spawn? Because someone decided to moderate/host it? Thats laughable.
Every facet of UO is "fun and and interesting"
Go out and enjoy it without praying for some dumbass pixelcrack handed to you at the finish
I can't believe that there are people here that stand up for griefing and other anti-social behavior.
Griefing (and spamming and disrupting other people's game experience and everything else listed in the TOS) is not a playstyle, it is a breach of the terms of service and a bannable offence, and should be treated and dealt with as such. The game is better off without such people.
As for not following instructions by the EMs, this should be dealt with harshly too. I play a lot of LARP events, and in there there are expeditions where a group of people go on an adventure specifically organized by the game masters. If you don't follow instructions by the expedition leaders, you will get left behind (In hostile territory) or even killed on the spot. In a game that has permadeath, mind you. I don't see why this should be any different from UO. You're on an expedition usually led by some notable figure. Disobey, and your character should get thrown into jail for the rest of the week at the very minimum. It makes sense gameplay wise, it makes sense roleplay wise.
Griefing (and spamming and disrupting other people's game experience and everything else listed in the TOS) is not a playstyle, it is a breach of the terms of service and a bannable offence, and should be treated and dealt with as such. The game is better off without such people.
As for not following instructions by the EMs, this should be dealt with harshly too. I play a lot of LARP events, and in there there are expeditions where a group of people go on an adventure specifically organized by the game masters. If you don't follow instructions by the expedition leaders, you will get left behind (In hostile territory) or even killed on the spot. In a game that has permadeath, mind you. I don't see why this should be any different from UO. You're on an expedition usually led by some notable figure. Disobey, and your character should get thrown into jail for the rest of the week at the very minimum. It makes sense gameplay wise, it makes sense roleplay wise.
If you want an easy fix just drop the EM item first and then tell your little story, the masses will leave and the RPrs will remain for your walls of text. You don't even have to make a monster, just make a clicky statue with a random number generator, the lucky get the item, and most will not interfere with the rest of the blah blah blah.
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