120 chiv?

[Poo]

ive noticed a couple people over the last couple months saying that they are taking their chiv up to 120.

why?

i vaguely remember them saying that there was a change in chiv, no longer 100% done by karma, but now skill actually plays into it.
i get that, but it it worth sinking all those points into chiv to have 120?

just wondering if anyone has some numbers about this to look at?

 

[Zosimus]

I had a pure chiv dexxer back in the day when I played.

4/6 casting
120 resist
120 swords
120 tactics
120 parry,
120 Chiv
120 ( crap its not med but the other)

I used alot of mana leach weapons and had no healing but was only dependent on pots and chiv.

Plus I never stood in one spot to long. PvP and PvE with the charcter.

I think i did 1 more point damage going to 120 versus 100 chiv but they may of changed it. I was told that but hey i loved the character was fun and could cast on the run with 4/6 casting.

 

[Logrus]

ive noticed a couple people over the last couple months saying that they are taking their chiv up to 120.

why?

i vaguely remember them saying that there was a change in chiv, no longer 100% done by karma, but now skill actually plays into it.
i get that, but it it worth sinking all those points into chiv to have 120?

just wondering if anyone has some numbers about this to look at?

Here are the numbers I'll quote myself from another thread

120 Chiv
EOO -> 82% Damage Modifier (30% in PvP)
CW -> 16% Damage Modifier
DF -> 12% HCI , 16% Damage Increase ,10% SSI , -10% DCI( 15/20/10 at Max Karma)

100 chiv
EOO -> 64% Damage Modifier(23 in PvP)
CW -> 5% Damage Modifier
DF -> 12% HCI , 16% Damage Increase, 10% SSI, -20% DCI ( 15/20/10 at Max Karma)


Damage Modifier is multiplying your base damage
Damage Increase is an increase of a % of your weapons actual damage (Capped at 100% including DI items)

And

80 Chivalry your Consecrate would proc ~100% of the time. Also your Enemy of One would be close to 50%. This is about the same damage output as pre-adjustment chivalry. @100 Chiv your modifiers increase (Combining EOO and CW) by 19% (Total 69%). @120 Chivalry your combined modifiers are 48%(Total 98%). Since your max multipliers are capped at 300% a regular slayer will give you a 200% Or a super slayer will give you 100%. Using perfection through bushido will give you up to 100% if you honor your target.

So I guess from the numbers, the damage modifier abilities of chiv give you. ( I didnt count divine fury since thats damage increase type)
80 Chiv is about 48%
100 chiv is about 69%
120 Chiv is about 98%

 

[Poo]

ok, so if 80 chiv gives you 48% and 120 chiv gives you 98%....... then you dont need any DI on your suit or weapons since the cap is 100?

or is this OVER the cap?

or if your suit is already at 100DI then you wouldnt need a slayer weapon?

is that what i seeing?

 

[Logrus]

Nope those numbers are Damage modifiers. (Similar to slayer effect on weapons)
Divine fury gives you up to 20% Damage Increase( Similar to the Damge Increase Property on a weapon)
The cap for Damage Increase is 100%. (This increase affects the base damage of your weapon. So 100% DI on a dagger would be an additional 9-11 Damage)
So if you had plain dagger equipped, and your characters base damage was 27-33, then you equipped items to give you 100% DI, your damage would increase to 36-44.
If instead you equipped a dagger with a slayer property only, your base damage would remain at 27-33, but your damage to your target would be doubled 2x(27-33) = 54-66.
Damage modifiers are multipliers of character base damage. Damage Increase is an addition of Weapon Base damage.

Your max character base damage is the damage from the weapon equipped, + up to 300% from Anatomy, Strength Tactics and Damage Increase from Items.
Your MAX character Modified damage is 3x your base damage.

Summary
Enemy of One
Concecrate Weapon
(And the damage modifier on Inspire)

All are damage multipliers affecting your characters base damage and are capped at 300%

Divine Fury, Damage Increase on Weapons and Items, and the Damage Increase on Inspire Affect the Weapon base damage and are capped at 100%

 

[Poo]

so my suit already has stormgrips (+25DI) and a primer talisman (+20DI) and a ring and watch with +20DI on each (+40) that gives me +85 DI just off my suit.
now my weapon is GM made so it has DI on it, but i knock that down to +15 cause that puts me at my 100% DI cap.

k, so ive got a warrior with +100% DI now because of the suit listed above.
right at this time i have 70 Chiv and im maxed out in Karma.
have GM anat and over GM tactics and with the suit and weapon im at my 300% cap.

the question is should i drop what little Focus i have and crank up my Chiv to at least GM (or 120 if i can squeeze it in) or do i gain nothing from moving up in chiv since im allready at my 300 cap?

 

[Logrus]

There are 2 Caps, there's the damage Increase cap, and the damage multiplier cap.
You are at the damage increase cap. Enemy of One and Consecrate weapon act like slayer damage which is modifier damage. They will multiply that 300 you already have by up to 300% more. If you have other modifiers in effect (Slayer, Perfection, Bard) you only need enough chiv to get you to 300 multipliers to hit max damage. If you don't have bushido/perfection, then 120 Chiv will get you close (98%) to the damage you'd do with perfection, without the headache of worrying about honoring the target.

The formular for damage is like this
Damage = (X + W(X) + T(X) + A(X) + S(X) B(X)) * M
X is your base weapon damage
W is your Damage Increase (Capped at 100)
T is your Tactics Damage Increase Factor
A is your Anatomy Damage Increase Factor
S is your Strength Damage Increase Factor
B is your Bards Inspire Damage Increase factor (up to 64%)
The Cap % for W,T,A,S is 300% (Your damage increase cap)

Your base Modifier is 100%
Super Slayer is bonus 100% to your multiplier
True Slayer is bonus 200% to your multiplier
Perfection is 10% bonus per level up to 100% to your multiplier
Enemy of One is up to 82% bonus @120 Chiv to your multiplier
Concecrate weapon is up to 16% bonus @ 120 to your multiplier
Honor self is bonus 25% to your multiplier
Bard Inspire Damage Modifier is up to 15% bonus to your multiplier
Grapes of Wrath is 10% bonus to your multiplier. (edit: Forgot this)
The Cap for all your multipliers is 300%


Hope I didnt overload you there.

 

[Poo]

*line of spittle drools down to chin*

*twitch*

*twitch*

 

[Logrus]

Summary:
To answer your question. (Will you do more damage with 120 Chiv than 70)
Yes

 

[kRUXCg7]

Logrus, in your formula you use "M". What does "M" stand for in your precious formula?

 

[Logrus]

M is your modifier or multiplier as it were. Slayer/Perfection/EnemyOfOne/Honor etc.
If you are not running any of those effects your multiplier is 100%, so you are doing 100% of your base character damage (The rest of the formula which are based around X).
If you equip a super slayer it adds 100% to your multiplier. A targeted slayer or regular slayer adds 200% to your multiplier.

 

[Poo]

Summary:
To answer your question. (Will you do more damage with 120 Chiv than 70)
Yes

now that im off shift im gonna have to sit down with some good old malt liquor and re-read your post a couple times to try to get it all straight in my brain bucket, but i think i got the gist of it.

tks for all the good info there bro, its good to see the exact numbers from time to time!

 

[Logrus]

I find it helpful to number crunch now and then. Its really interesting to see what you are capable of doing.

 

[kRUXCg7]

Can we somehow sticky Logrus' formula and explanations?

 

[Poo]

that would be up to the mod for this forum.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

that would be up to the mod for this forum.

It is then indeed fortunate that we have a mod posting in the thread, one who presumably could reach out to his colleague and be like "yo."

-Galen's player

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

120 ( crap its not med but the other)

Focus. Also known as Battle Focus.

-Galen's player

 

[Zosimus]

Focus. Also known as Battle Focus.

-Galen's player

Thank you! I had totally forgot what it was called lol.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Thank you! I had totally forgot what it was called lol.

Focus is a very under-rated skill.

-Galen's player

 

[Poo]

Focus is a very under-rated skill.

-Galen's player

that just because its under-rated.

 

[Logrus]

 

[Poo]

i wish they had a palm/face smiley, hehe

 

[Podolak]

There are 2 Caps, there's the damage Increase cap, and the damage multiplier cap.
You are at the damage increase cap. Enemy of One and Consecrate weapon act like slayer damage which is modifier damage. They will multiply that 300 you already have by up to 300% more. If you have other modifiers in effect (Slayer, Perfection, Bard) you only need enough chiv to get you to 300 multipliers to hit max damage. If you don't have bushido/perfection, then 120 Chiv will get you close (98%) to the damage you'd do with perfection, without the headache of worrying about honoring the target.

The formular for damage is like this
Damage = (X + W(X) + T(X) + A(X) + S(X) B(X)) * M
X is your base weapon damage
W is your Damage Increase (Capped at 100)
T is your Tactics Damage Increase Factor
A is your Anatomy Damage Increase Factor
S is your Strength Damage Increase Factor
B is your Bards Inspire Damage Increase factor (up to 64%)
The Cap % for W,T,A,S is 300% (Your damage increase cap)

Your base Modifier is 100%
Super Slayer is bonus 100% to your multiplier
True Slayer is bonus 200% to your multiplier
Perfection is 10% bonus per level up to 100% to your multiplier
Enemy of One is up to 82% bonus @120 Chiv to your multiplier
Concecrate weapon is up to 16% bonus @ 120 to your multiplier
Honor self is bonus 25% to your multiplier
Bard Inspire Damage Modifier is up to 15% bonus to your multiplier
The Cap for all your multipliers is 300%


Hope I didnt overload you there.

So according to the above formula, If you honor your opponent and it has a super slayer then you don't even need chivalry right?

Base Modifier of 100% + Super Slayer of 100% + Perfection bonus of 100% = a Modifier of 300% which is the cap.

If you are fighting something that has a true slayer you don't need chivalry, perfection or anything as you have a Base Modifier of 100% + a True Slayer modifier of 200% = a Modifer of 300% which is the cap.

Am I getting this right?

 

[Podolak]

The damage increase cap seems a lot easier to understand.

If max Damage Increase for items = 100
If 120 Tactics then (120/1.6) + 6.25 = 81.25
If 120 Anatomy then (120/2) +5 = 65
If 150 Strength then (150*.3) +5 = 50
For a total of 296.25 which means its impossible to hit 300 here unless you have LJ.

 

[Logrus]

So according to the above formula, If you honor your opponent and it has a super slayer then you don't even need chivalry right?

Base Modifier of 100% + Super Slayer of 100% + Perfection bonus of 100% = a Modifier of 300% which is the cap.

If you are fighting something that has a true slayer you don't need chivalry, perfection or anything as you have a Base Modifier of 100% + a True Slayer modifier of 200% = a Modifer of 300% which is the cap.

Am I getting this right?

Yep that should be correct.

 

[Logrus]

The damage increase cap seems a lot easier to understand.

If max Damage Increase for items = 100
If 120 Tactics then (120/1.6) + 6.25 = 81.25
If 120 Anatomy then (120/2) +5 = 65
If 150 Strength then (150*.3) +5 = 50
For a total of 296.25 which means its impossible to hit 300 here unless you have LJ.

That is also correct.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

I have long-felt, and Logrus's generous contributions confirm, that the chief advantage Chivalry has is certainty. You may have more disadvantages but you also have certainty. You don't need to worry about Lightning Strike's Critical Hits working, you don't need to fret about missing and thus ****ing up Perfection, and you don't need to worry about being the first to hit something.

On the other hand you get to worry about anything else hitting you while you're EOOed to something, you don't get the defense bonuses that you get from Bushido, etc.

-Galen's player

 

[Deception]

Hey Logrus. I just started playing again, and stumbling upon this thread brought me a new suit building question. A while back I saw where you posted the divine fury max mods. Chivalry changes | Stratics: A Career Path in Gaming

Your post there conflicts with the one here. Can you clarify on the max SSI given? I was building a suit based on it giving 15, but here you are saying 10 so I'm a bit worried. I'd check myself, but my buff bar is broken(doesn't show anything when I hover over the icons).

Thanks in advance!

 

[James [W^H]]

The buff bar icon shows 15 ssi when the spell is active.

Katrena

 

[Deception]

Good enough for me. Thanks for checkin

 

[Logrus]

Yep it will give you 15 ssi, but thats 20k karma and 120 chiv.

 

[Deception]

Ok thank you much Logrus! Don't want to be a pain, but do you have the formula sitting around for us number crunching junkies?

 

[Logrus]

Unfortunately I can't remember the exact formula.
I'll have to look if I wrote it down somewhere in my idea dumps.

But Chivalry has a "Power" number associated with most of the abilities. Usually this affects duration. But in the case of Divine fury/ remove curse/ and close wounds it also affects their potency.

The power number caps out at 54K
The Base Power is 30 * Chivalry Skill (It goes by the internal value which is 0 - 1200 rather than 0-120 since it takes into account the decimals)

The base Power is then modified by up to 50% depending on Karma.
And Max factored Karma (20K)
So if you have 20K positive Karma, and 120 Civ your base power gets increased by 50%
So your power would be 1200 * 30 * 1.5 = 36000 + 18000 = 54000

If you have -20K Karma Your base power would be reduced by 50%
So 1200 * 30 * .5 = 36000 - 18000= 18000

@ 0 Karma
You'd just be getting the base power of 12000 * 30 = 36000

That should allow you to create a scale of expected results based on karma and chiv.
If I find the seed values I'll post them, or if I find the rest of the formula.

 

[Deception]

Awesome thanks logrus. I was just asking because my karma is sitting around 18k and the tooltip is showing 15% SSI. I'm guessing the 15% ssi comes from a base power of 50000 or something like that. (blind guess though)

 

[Logrus]

It may be the seed value. So your chiv/karma combination are enough to push it up to max, especially since the SSI portion is raised in chunks and the HCI is more linear

 

[Deception]

Thanks a bunch. I suppose I should just trust the tooltip. (got my tooltips working)

On a side note, something that has bothered me a long time....

Would it be possible to get chivalry spells to refresh their timers when recast? It really bothers me when I cast DF while already under it's effects, only to have it shut off 1 second later because it's still running on the previous casts' timer. I don't think this was intended, but if it was I don't understand why.

 

[Logrus]

I remember there was a reason for that, but I cant for the life of me remember why I did it that way. Prolly best to post a question in ask a dev forum maybe they can get around to doing that. Or myabe they'll find a comment in the code as to why it was done.

 

[kRUXCg7]

By the way, I'd love to enjoy longer lasting Chivalry spells, especially Consecrate Weapons!
I though the reason for Divine Fury's Behaviour was to allow players to deactivate it as it lowers Defense Chance quite a bit. Was that the reason?

 

[Deception]

I dont see how that could be the reason. You cant deactivate it, can only wait for the timer. Ill try to get someones attention in the devs forum, see if we cant get this fixed.

 

[Logrus]

Nope that wasn't it. Of course its going to bug me till I remember.

 

[Poo]

Nope that wasn't it. Of course its going to bug me till I remember.

well in that case!

so why'd ya do it, huh?
huh?
why'd you go and do that, there musta been a reason?
why?

huh?

hehehehe

 

[Logrus]

I think it was so that it would actually wear off, and require some player awareness to at least remember to keep it up.

 

[Gantry]

There are 2 Caps, there's the damage Increase cap, and the damage multiplier cap.
You are at the damage increase cap. Enemy of One and Consecrate weapon act like slayer damage which is modifier damage. They will multiply that 300 you already have by up to 300% more. If you have other modifiers in effect (Slayer, Perfection, Bard) you only need enough chiv to get you to 300 multipliers to hit max damage. If you don't have bushido/perfection, then 120 Chiv will get you close (98%) to the damage you'd do with perfection, without the headache of worrying about honoring the target.

The formular for damage is like this
Damage = (X + W(X) + T(X) + A(X) + S(X) B(X)) * M
X is your base weapon damage
W is your Damage Increase (Capped at 100)
T is your Tactics Damage Increase Factor
A is your Anatomy Damage Increase Factor
S is your Strength Damage Increase Factor
B is your Bards Inspire Damage Increase factor (up to 64%)
The Cap % for W,T,A,S is 300% (Your damage increase cap)

Your base Modifier is 100%
Super Slayer is bonus 100% to your multiplier
True Slayer is bonus 200% to your multiplier
Perfection is 10% bonus per level up to 100% to your multiplier
Enemy of One is up to 82% bonus @120 Chiv to your multiplier
Concecrate weapon is up to 16% bonus @ 120 to your multiplier
Honor self is bonus 25% to your multiplier
Bard Inspire Damage Modifier is up to 15% bonus to your multiplier
Grapes of Wrath is 10% bonus to your multiplier. (edit: Forgot this)
The Cap for all your multipliers is 300%


Hope I didnt overload you there.

What is meant exactly by this?
Honor self is bonus 25% to your multiplier

Are we talking about the Honor virtue?

 

[Logrus]

Yes that is correct. Using the honor virte on a creature allows you to gain points in honor when you kill it (also enables perfection if you have50+ bushido). If you use honor on yourself, you get a 25% damage bonus for a short time.

 

[kRUXCg7]

Logrus, thank you for your input. Are we allowed to fully cite your formulas 1:1 on UOGuide.com?

 

[Picus of Napa]

How does the Battle Lust mod factor in on this?

 

[Logrus]

kRUXCg7 cite away!

Battle Lust, gives a damage increase against targets you are agressing everytime you take damage. This is the same as damage increase from items and is capped at 45% in PvP and 90% in PvM, but is still subject to the 100% DI from items cap.

 

[Picus of Napa]

What makes this trigger? I made a new axe and was beating stuff with it but only once have I seen the message "that the damage taken has turned on my lust" or something to that effect. That time I noticed a sizable gain(9% or so) in the damage I was doing to the target but it hasn't happed since. I've been farming Cora with this guy and the same set up so I am fairly sure that when this message was going I was getting a increase in damage but not otherwise....help?

 

[Logrus]

Should trigger on targets you are agressed to, and the damage increases when you take damage from that target. (May be damage from any target but don't remember)
If i remember correctly its # of agressed targets * damage levels * 3%/level
So if you're agressed against one target you get up to 5 levels of damage and 3% per level so up to 15%.
If you are in the middle of a bunch of goblins and are agressed on 5 of them you have a max of 75% from battle lust.

 

[Picus at the office]

Well so far I have only managed to get that Battle Lust to trigger once. I'm not sure what happened that one time but I've done 18 cora's ince then and not one has given me that message....odd.