120 chiv?

[Picus at the office]

Don't forget that Logrus is just a guy who did work for the team but doesn't anymore. He has insight and information that the rest of us don't and we should be glad for his sharing of that.

Sadly he can be the brunt of all of our collective anger for the lack of real dev speak, but I'm happy to read what ever it is he wants to share. This said Klomp is correct that the other properties would be nice to have in other slots but this is something to be taken up in UHall where, laughs, someone might see it.

 

[Logrus]

The reason many of the properties are placed where they are is exactly that reason KLOMP cited. Though the perspective is different.
If you treat each of these bonuses as increases to a players effectiveness or capabilities, then sticking them on a relatively unused slot such as earrings, boots, or cloaks means that everyone will use them.
Well that seems fair. Fair yes, when it comes to balance, fair, and balance don't always play the same game.
If you gave a player a power rating, say 0 -200.
The best player with the best gear would rate 200
The best player with average gear would probably rate 120
So they have a difference in power of 80

Now give them both an item that makes them 10% more effective
The player with the best gear is now at 220, and the player with average gear is 132, so though they've both gotten the same % buff, the gap between them has gone from 80 to 88. The gap has now increased by 10%.
To help avoid the gap between players due to equipment rather than skill many of these properties are on slots where a player can sacrifice using items with great stats for an item which has ok stats and a unique effect.
Well thats the thinking behind the items anway.

Also with the new loot system many of these properties are available on more combinations of items, and have the potential to surpass pretty much every dev created artifact in game that occupies a craftable item slot.

Most of the items went in prior to the new loot system, and I'm sure the dev team will continue to add new and better stuff. Personally I'm hoping not to see alot of artifacts. I'd rather see updates to existing skills, mechanics, AI and maybe some expansion to the crafting systems.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

There's generally speaking more viable variety in this game than we as players like to use.

-Galen's player

 

[KLOMP]

If you treat each of these bonuses as increases to a players effectiveness or capabilities, then sticking them on a relatively unused slot such as earrings, boots, or cloaks means that everyone will use them.

Everyone wears a helmet, too. I don't really see the problem.

I mean as soon as one item with even a tiny bonus is added for a given slot, that slot ceases to be cosmetic and the item becomes mandatory. At that point your only choices are...

1) Add scads of artifacts to the slot for variety.
2) Make stat items for the slot craftable.
3) Do neither, everyone in UO wears one or two items.

And I don't really understand why we've gone with #3.

 

[Lorax_Pacific]

Can someone explain the 35 pvp direct damage cap regarding this damage output thread?

Is the cap applied after damage calculations and then resistances taken into account? My reason is because over the years I have perceived it both ways, but never tested it...my pvp days were before publish 38. I created a spreadsheet of all weapons and average damage and then sorted. Then I created a term that was like below to multiply by the pub 81 DCI and resistances to see the effects.
if(damage avg>35) then (35/swing delay) else (damage avg/swing delay)

If I apply the 35 damage cap to the weapon before doing the calculations then almost all melee weapons rank the same except a few like the halberd, and archery weapons.

-Lorax

 

[Logrus]

Armor ignore deals 90% of your base damage with a maximum damage amount of 35. if your base damage exceeds 39 you are basically gonna d o 90% of that which is 35. If youre base damage is 50 you'll do 90% of that 45 with an armor ignore, but you'll hit the cap so only do 35.

Armor ignore does not take resistances into account. So as long as you are hitting a player you will do up to 35 when hitting with an armor ignore regardless of what the player has on.

 

[Lorax_Pacific]

Thanks, and without armor ignore the equation is to take damage then apply resistance and the final result after resistance is applied does not exceed 35. Correct?

I am thinking instead of trying to target the maximum base damage on a weapon to get the highest minimum and then the most multiplier to get as often to 35 damage as possible. So the highest minimum damage of 18 is the ornate axe, which swings at 1.25s (150 stamina and 55 SSI). This weapon needs a multiplier of 650% to hit 35 max damage (18*650%*0.3=35.1).

with DI 100, STR 150, anat 120, tact 120, and lumberjacking that gets me 326%. Adding in EOO (pvp) I can get 30% additional at 120 chiv. I need an additional 294%.

So I corpse skin to decrease their resistance by 15 to change the 0.3 to 0.45. Now I need only 450% total. So 18*440%*0.45=35.6 and I need 84%=440-326-30. So I have to use CW to target the lowest resist and I get the 16% damage modifier.

I need 68% somewhere to always hit the defender at the maximum damage. Is all this right?

-Lorax

 

[Logrus]

Thanks, and without armor ignore the equation is to take damage then apply resistance and the final result after resistance is applied does not exceed 35. Correct?

I am thinking instead of trying to target the maximum base damage on a weapon to get the highest minimum and then the most multiplier to get as often to 35 damage as possible. So the highest minimum damage of 18 is the ornate axe, which swings at 1.25s (150 stamina and 55 SSI). This weapon needs a multiplier of 650% to hit 35 max damage (18*650%*0.3=35.1).

with DI 100, STR 150, anat 120, tact 120, and lumberjacking that gets me 326%. Adding in EOO (pvp) I can get 30% additional at 120 chiv. I need an additional 294%.

So I corpse skin to decrease their resistance by 15 to change the 0.3 to 0.45. Now I need only 450% total. So 18*440%*0.45=35.6 and I need 84%=440-326-30. So I have to use CW to target the lowest resist and I get the 16% damage modifier.

I need 68% somewhere to always hit the defender at the maximum damage. Is all this right?

-Lorax

There's no max for player to player damage. Armor Ignore Player to Player has a max of 35. Even then that cap can be bumped slightly by a couple of effects and abilities.
So with an ornate axe hitting say 18-20 base, you could get about 100 base damage on a crit if you had LJ and anat and DI and strength and tactics.
You can hit even harder using a crushing blow bumping that by about 30-50.

Now in a completely theoretical situation, using skills, and abilities you can hit another player for around 240-270 pre resist damage (possibly closer to 300).

Realistically you can hit another player for about 130-140 pre resist damage on a single hit consistently. (Extra bit of damage if you get a spell proc with that too). You can bump that further by 20-30 damage situationally, maybe even as high as 45. Haven't tested the all out full capabilities.
I believe single player to player with no assitance max damage output is about 168 damage pre resist with a heavy Xbow.

But basically may as well armor ignore. comparing 35 damage to 39-43 ish

 

[RazicGL]

There are 2 Caps, there's the damage Increase cap, and the damage multiplier cap.
You are at the damage increase cap. Enemy of One and Consecrate weapon act like slayer damage which is modifier damage. They will multiply that 300 you already have by up to 300% more. If you have other modifiers in effect (Slayer, Perfection, Bard) you only need enough chiv to get you to 300 multipliers to hit max damage. If you don't have bushido/perfection, then 120 Chiv will get you close (98%) to the damage you'd do with perfection, without the headache of worrying about honoring the target.

The formular for damage is like this
Damage = (X + W(X) + T(X) + A(X) + S(X) B(X)) * M
X is your base weapon damage
W is your Damage Increase (Capped at 100)
T is your Tactics Damage Increase Factor
A is your Anatomy Damage Increase Factor
S is your Strength Damage Increase Factor
B is your Bards Inspire Damage Increase factor (up to 64%)
The Cap % for W,T,A,S is 300% (Your damage increase cap)

Your base Modifier is 100%
Super Slayer is bonus 100% to your multiplier
True Slayer is bonus 200% to your multiplier
Perfection is 10% bonus per level up to 100% to your multiplier
Enemy of One is up to 82% bonus @120 Chiv to your multiplier
Concecrate weapon is up to 16% bonus @ 120 to your multiplier
Honor self is bonus 25% to your multiplier
Bard Inspire Damage Modifier is up to 15% bonus to your multiplier
Grapes of Wrath is 10% bonus to your multiplier. (edit: Forgot this)
The Cap for all your multipliers is 300%


Hope I didnt overload you there.

I actually wept pure nerd tears when I read this! I had decided long ago to take chiv to 120 just for the Legendary Paladin title but reading this confirms all the "educated guess work" that I had done swapping out weps and slayer types. that SSI at max karma and 120 will mean I can free up a bunch of hit mana leech on my weps, I will still run Bushido for the amazing defensive elements but I will pop grapes to get the last 2% so I don't have to mess around with honour! In closing.... THANKS Logrus... I take off both my real, and digital cap to you and bow.
So just for example sake... If I was to build a suit that uses tinker legs, Diyamo (forgive spelling) helm and a ring and brace with SSI combined with DF I could be hitting 40% SSi right? That will make for some amazing weps!!!

 

[Logrus]

Daimyo's helm is 10%
Divine Fury 15%
Animated Legs 10%
A nice ring/brace pair could get you 10 SSI each though that may be expensive to bring you to 55.
( I believe SSI Cap is 60 total)
If you don't need alot of mana you can throw some extra dex/stamina to bump your swing rate.

If you're lucky enough to have a cloak or wing armor with +5 ssi, then you would be at max SSI without even factoring your weapon.

 

[Duncan Drake]

I had the same idea. But with daimyo´s helmet I am missing the 30 HLD from mace and shield glasses. Additionally daimyo´s helmet doesn´t have enough resistances to max out resist as a sampire. Remember with DF you need 10 more DCI than normal. That means you cannot afford to imbue more than one resistance on one of the 4 craftable armor parts. Even this way I really had a hard time building the right armor parts (including pub 81 material properties) (see my thread in this forum)

Regarding jewelry I wanted the 50 EPOT so I go along with an ecru citrine ring. Bracelet I got a nice 5% SSI one with 10 Dex (very nice). There is still room for a 10% one but wasn´t lucky here.

In the end, with Tinker legs, Rangers Cloak and DF I have 35% SSI while having 180+ Stamina. So If you use a Double Axe, Broad sword or any other 3,25 speed weapon you don´t need to imbue SSI on the weapon an keep swingspeed down to 150 stamina.

 

[CorwinXX]

Your max character base damage is the damage from the weapon equipped, + up to 300% from Anatomy, Strength Tactics and Damage Increase from Items.

This is wrong. You can get over 300% DI with lumberjack. I believe you can get at least 326.25 DI.

 

[Gb8719]

Any tips on how to quickly and easily raise Karma to the highest possible level so I can reap the benefits of having 120 chivalry?
I'm working on making a 'Paladin' type character and, unfortunately, my dexxer has been a very bad man in his past and has a horrible Karma rating.

 

[CorwinXX]

Ilshenar Blood Balrons or Miasma

 

[Duncan Drake]

I did it in ilshenar inblood dungeon, balron room.
If its too heavy for you go for lich lords. Miasma is good too you can even get lv6 maps there

 

[CorwinXX]

Oops! I meant Blood Dungeon as well (not Exodus).

P.S. There is no Balrons in Exodus

 

[Duncan Drake]

Lv5+ treasure chest spawn is great for fame and karma too

 

[CorwinXX]

What do you think about renaming this topic in something like "Damage Calculation"?