[UO Herald] Letter from the Producer

[Picus of Napa]

People play this 15 year old relic because of the depth of the game along side of the client be it EC or CC. Myself,I think the EC is more ugly than a 1980's east german woman's swimming team member and I am sure that the mods(which are done by players) can revert it to look like the CC but WTF is that? I can mod a client or stick to what I want to play in the first place? EC might have nifty features and all but I don't need or want them, I want UO plain and simple. You can have your EC and I can have CC, I don't need further updateing on it but make sure that the rest of the crap gets fixed. Don't sell me stuff no one wants and don't write me a letter telling me the virtues of some other game on a UO website, not interested plus it was offensive to the loyal and angry base.

 

[Woodsman]

The CC is old and it's not a good client in terms of usability. It certainly doesn't match up to other MMO clients or today's gamers' expectations of what an MMO client should be. The EC is more in line with those things, but people simply aren't willing to put up with the numerous basic issues that plague it which wouldn't be left present in most serious production-level MMO in the current market and if they did manifest they'd be addressed promptly.

I'm hoping one day EA get serious about the EC and get things sorted, but until then you really can't blame staunch supporters of the CC client for being firm in their stance to continue using it.

This isn't necessarily directed at you, but it touches upon what you said. The CC is not bringing in enough new blood players to keep UO going until the 20th birthday. Neither is the EC for that matter, but as you say, the EC is the one that has the potential to meet the expectations of new players if EA would get serious about UO.

I look at Mesanna's wishlist in the producer's letter, and mentally I cross off everything that won't help bring in new players. I'm left with the high resolution graphics, and an improved EC. Things like vendor search and the gold conversion and better PvP would be nice for new players since many new players would be used to such systems or attracted to them once they are in game, but they won't actually bring in new players on their own.

I don't blame any CC user for sticking to the CC if that's what works best for them. I can blame those (not you) who actively try to push the UO team into not supporting the EC, because I know that if something is not done to bring in more players, we won't be discussing which client is better, we will be discussing which free shard is better when UO gets closed down.

Mesanna's letter says a lot though - with high res art and a better EC, the two biggest things that could bring in new players are mentioned. Other things are mentioned that would make things easier on new players as well.

I wish both sides could come together and tell EA that what they want for UO's 16th birthday is more players and to ignore anything outside of serious bugs that doesn't help bring in new players, so that UO has a chance to hit its 20th anniversary.

 

[Reth]

I wasn't here to play the KR client, but judging by the trailer below it has far better graphics/UI to bring in newer players. Why'd they scrap the client for?

 

[HD2300]

Talk. I like talking, you dont have to do anything.

In reality the current team doesnt have the bandwidth to do high res art. Nothing happened in the last 12 months when the full time artist said he was working on it, plus they brought in other artists to do event art as well. Now they only have a part-time artist. This is the Classic Shard redux.

 

[Zane_Xander]

New Players would show up if They would drop the price and give Ultima Online Prime Viewing space on EA.com .... Plain and simple. They know this but EA.com chooses not to..
You have a small group running the show and all they want to go is keep things going so they can get paid. I bet they grumble among themselves about how things could be better but can because the powers to be wouldn't let them or it isn't in the budget.
Uo has had some bad consultants and succumb to the pressure of 3d when 2d top down was fine just needed the tools EC has and like pincos. I like some of the graphics in EC and I like the short cuts it has but I still fight faster in 2d with my old macros.
in short they have a mess, a knot, they are secretly trying to fix while keeping the faith. When there is no way out the only option is further inward.
Good Luck Ultima Online... btw I am fixing to update my account thru the winter.

 

[Tanivar]

...but graphics designed for the archaic 800x600 resolution aren't going to look "good" on modern equipment - unless you like playing in a postage stamp.

I run my 23" widescreen at 1360x768 to keep text sizes larger than phonebook size print so the 800x600 CC game window fits fine.

Download Pinco's and turn on his versions of the Classic stuff (backpacks, etc). Hotbars look very, very similar to the mass of icons most CC users have, but they add better targeting functionality and can act as counters for consumables at the same time.

I've had Pinco's installed on my desktop in the past, and it just adds features the basic default client download should provide itself. It still has the bad look & feel of the basic EC in spite of looking different. Took a drive by malware hit on the desktop a couple weeks back and had to reformat & reinstall and just haven't done more than patch the EC so far. Don't use the EC enough to sit through the Pinco's Mod reinstallation.

Aside from the grid backpacks that many CC users despise, what else in the UI don't you like?

The graphics don't look right, the clutter all over the game window, the commands to do various things are different which makes it awkward when your quick reaction to something happening in game doesn't work because the command you entered was for the other client, and the EC's quirks due to bad programming would be the four general basic things. It's like trying to use something that was tossed together by an inept beginner who crammed in a bunch of bells & whistles and is trying to pass it off as the Latest!, Greatest, New! Incredibly Awesone! version!! that fsr (hah!) surpasses that old, decrepit, last century, prehistoric, useless, lame, featureless, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc <yawn....> client that works so much better in spite of less features because the Origon people under Richard Garriott had a clue where making User Interfaces was concerned.

Something being newer, doesn't make it better, as the Third Dawn, KR, and EC, as it is, have shown. The CC still brushes off the competition. Quality still surpasses quantity of features.[/quote]

 

[Warpig Inc]

Play nothing but the EC after the rocky start. If I ever do get on CC. Feels like I broke out the horse and buggy for a trip to town. Rather be accused of speeding then get a ticket for not cleaning up the horse apples. CC is not even worth the disc space just to keep the patches up to date. The only reason I would use CC ever again is if they declare AFK BOT mining OK. Otherwise there is no good reason to have the CC Icon on the screen.

 

[kelmo]

Exactly what are trying to accomplish with this worn out debate? It has already been decided that no one can win this argument. Some consider that having two UI/clients a waste of Dev/dollars. *shrugs* Lets just consider it customer service and move on. It is not going to change anytime in the near future. Let it go.

 

[LordDrago]

Exactly what are trying to accomplish with this worn out debate? It has already been decided that no one can win this argument. Some consider that having two UI/clients a waste of Dev/dollars. *shrugs* Lets just consider it customer service and move on. It is not going to change anytime in the near future. Let it go.

You can take our lives....but...you can't take our worn out debate!!!!!

 

[Warpig Inc]

Yes two heads are better then one. Unless one snores. It is an even debate and true there will be no winner. I will still put in my imput for my likes just to keep it even. No need to let the squeeky wheel get the oil. Untill the driver of this game makes their voice heard, "We can't afford oil, so keep on rolling" we will debate.

 

[Tanivar]

It got set off by me wondering if the EC could be modded to have the same look & feel of the CC with the EC's neat features available in the background. Apparently it can't per Dermott's reply, but I've got an XML & a LUA book on inter-library loan request and am going to see what I can do to come up with some EC mod that has more of a CC look & feel to it.

I'm really burned out on playing since the crafting business is so slow, prices are to high, and mega-hp grind monster hunting just isn't doing it for me. I'll put the playtime into learning a couple new programming languages. Adding a couple programming books to my collection would be a better use for $26 a month once I find a really good book for each.

Can I still learn another programming language a half century later? We shall find out.

 

[Ashlynn_L]

You can't mod the in-game graphics (if that's what you're thinking), you can only mod the UI and the functionality of it.

 

[Petra Fyde]

It got set off by me wondering if the EC could be modded to have the same look & feel of the CC with the EC's neat features available in the background. Apparently it can't per Dermott's reply, but I've got an XML & a LUA book on inter-library loan request and am going to see what I can do to come up with some EC mod that has more of a CC look & feel to it.

I'm really burned out on playing since the crafting business is so slow, prices are to high, and mega-hp grind monster hunting just isn't doing it for me. I'll put the playtime into learning a couple new programming languages. Adding a couple programming books to my collection would be a better use for $26 a month once I find a really good book for each.

Can I still learn another programming language a half century later? We shall find out.

There's already an icon set that looks more like CC. have a look at that first.

 

[The Craftsman]

There's already an icon set that looks more like CC. have a look at that first.

Whilst you might be to imitate the 'look', you cant imitate the feel or performance.

 

[Madrid]

I wasn't here to play the KR client, but judging by the trailer below it has far better graphics/UI to bring in newer players. Why'd they scrap the client for?

That's what I've been asking myself for two years. It was one of thee dumbest things and short sighted things the Devs have ever done.

I came back to play UO after seeing screenshots of KR on Wikipedia. Then they pulled the plug on it.

KR was awesome and I loved it! Graphics were very nice. Give me Pinco's UI with KR graphics and I'd be a happy camper until then I'll continue to lobby for high resolution art and voice my displeasure at the Dev Team for letting UO deteriorate.

UO looks horrible right now and is not going to bring in any new players. The top priority of the Devs if they want UO to remain viable is to get some high resolution art which KR had. What they need to understand is that as history has proven no matter how good of a client they create there will be a portion of the playerbase i.e. the 2D Jurassic that will never switch over or try a new client regardless of how much better or visually appealing a high resolution client is. Some people just don't like change.

I'd much rather see them nix the 2d Client even if that means losing the entire Jurassic playerbase. Then proceed to move on with a high resolution client that has the potential to bring in new players. The EC client has been tailored to the CC users. There's not much of a difference between the 2 as far as looks go the EC just has a better UI with more functionality. I can't stand the EC client because all it is ...is the CC Client all over again. Yet still the CC'ers won't use it? When it was tailor made for them.

I love UO and will continue to hope (probably in vain) that they will add high resolution art into the game.

If they ever do away with the 2D client I'll be breaking out the champagne. That client is going to be the death of UO.

 

[The Craftsman]

If they ever do away with the 2D client I'll be breaking out the champagne. That client is going to be the death of UO.

Absolute nonesense. The death of UO will be down to lack of support or ambition by EA, combined with at times, their sheer incompetence and appalling customer service.

If they could produce a fit for purpose client to replace CC then I'd be all for it. To date however, there have been 3 attempts and none have managed to do what needed to be done. KR was a debacle which was quite rightly consigned to an early grave, and EC is just an alternative choice rather than a viable replacement.

 

[Tanivar]

You can't mod the in-game graphics (if that's what you're thinking), you can only mod the UI and the functionality of it.

I know I can't affect the game graphics. That part of the client look is something that just has to be put up with until the Devs talk turns to action.

What I want is to come as close to the CC's look and operation as I can in spite of the poor graphics and gain the EC's good features. My idea of a good UO UI.

 

[Tanivar]

Whilst you might be to imitate the 'look', you cant imitate the feel or performance.

You've tried that kind of mod for the EC?

 

[Wenchkin]

The responsibility for the success of both CC and EC lies solely with EA, not the players. It's their game, they manage it. If EA want me to use the EC for extended periods, they need to finish the artwork. Simple as that. It needs to feel like a coherent theme is through the game to a high standard. If umpteen creatures simply look unfinished and like someone hasn't done their research (eg to know the different nightmare colours/mane types) then it's not a player's fault if that sours their game experience.

The UI in both CC and EC are actually pretty equal in my view, once you take time to learn how to use them. UOA is not a needed thing with the CC, it's simply an easy choice many have made. Without it, you can still play UO just fine. I had to learn this when I converted to Linux at first - UOA didn't work. I lifted the hood with macros and found I didn't really need UOA. But a lot of EC fans do tend to say things like "use Pincos and it's great" - Pincos is really just taking the place of UOA in the equation for the EC. I don't know many EC fans who run the default UI - most seem surprised that I don't use any mods at all lol. So I wouldn't be so quick to say "you need a 3rd party app for CC" when really the EC users are too. It doesn't need to be a stand-alone application when the mod can be so extensive and full of features. I'm very glad to see that the UI of the EC is on the to-do list for EA, because I was worried they were relying on Pinco to finish off the UI for a lot of EC users. I prefer working from the EC base client and if that improves I'm happy

But the art needs to be finished. I'm at the point now where I think we need to scream "do whatever client update you want, but please just finish the job, do the artwork until it's complete". No client is really ready for evaluation until it is finished to a good standard. We seem to have a history of clients which are sort of delivered, not quiet polished as much as necessary and then never fully adopted by the users. If you commit to starting an upgrade, commit to finishing it as soon as you can too.

The CC is not going to kill UO - dropping that client when a significant player base uses it will just result in some accounts being closed and it'll be a missed chance for EA to keep those customers and make the best client they could. It would be better for the devs to look at the CC, look at why people still use it and incorporate those desirable features into the EC. It's not as if we haven't said what features we want, including the ones we use in UOA. We've tried to say what we don't like and why, some players have spent a lot of spare time finding problems and reporting them. But when you see how much Pinco was able to do with the EC and how much EA themselves have tweaked it, I don't think it's unfair to expect a bit more from the folks who created the game Sometimes it's enough to just see that someone is making the best effort they can, but when it feels like they're not really interested in improving that product, it's harder for the customer to really get interested either.

/essay

Wenchy

 

[kelmo]

Well spoken, Wenchy.

 

[Madrid]

The UI in both CC and EC are actually pretty equal in my view,

 

[Woodsman]

New Players would show up if They would drop the price and give Ultima Online Prime Viewing space on EA.com .... Plain and simple. They know this but EA.com chooses not to..

Read all of the "I'm quitting" threads. None of them mention price as their main factor.

And BioWare.com is giving UO "Prime Viewing space" - BioWare wait for the slideshow to hit the 6th or 7th slot. I was surprised when somebody showed it to me, but BioWare is pushing UO on BioWare.com.

 

[Woodsman]

Absolute nonesense. The death of UO will be down to lack of support or ambition by EA

The responsibility for the success of both CC and EC lies solely with EA, not the players. It's their game, they manage it.

Exactly. If EA can find the several millions, probably $10 million+ for Ultima Forever, it could find the money to properly do the EC.

If they had kept the Stygian Abyss team around and hadn't laid off people over the past year just because other properties lost them a bunch of money, we wouldn't be having these debates. Both clients would be properly supported and high resolution graphics would have been finished.

If Ultima Forever does well, the franchise producer said that there would be "more Ultima", but we should be asking him what he means by that, if that means good things for UO or not. I don't think I've seen him say anything about that, just "play UF if you want more Ultima".

Mesanna has a good wishlist in the producer's letter. If UO dies, it's because EA allows it to.

 

[Lady Silverbrook]

Read all of the "I'm quitting" threads. None of them mention price as their main factor.

And BioWare.com is giving UO "Prime Viewing space" - BioWare wait for the slideshow to hit the 6th or 7th slot. I was surprised when somebody showed it to me, but BioWare is pushing UO on BioWare.com.

View attachment 9917

Actually the site has ALL their online games on the scroll through. They all get their own window (DAoC, Ultima Forever, even Dragon Age Legends and Dragon Age 2)... so it isn't much 'pushing UO' as really it being any one of its many games.

 

[Woodsman]

Actually the site has ALL their online games on the scroll through. They all get their own window (DAoC, Ultima Forever, even Dragon Age Legends and Dragon Age 2)... so it isn't much 'pushing UO' as really it being any one of its many games.

UO and DAoC used to not be featured on BioWare.com's front page. I think it was after Ultima Forever's announcement that they started pushing it.

 

[Viper09]

Actually the site has ALL their online games on the scroll through. They all get their own window (DAoC, Ultima Forever, even Dragon Age Legends and Dragon Age 2)... so it isn't much 'pushing UO' as really it being any one of its many games.

The fact is that they are pushing UO, something that EA has never done in a long time. This is the first promotion for UO in a many years.

 

[Madrid]

The fact is that they are pushing UO, something that EA has never done in a long time. This is the first promotion for UO in a many years.

Doesn't matter if they are pushing it in it's current state. The way the game looks it's not going to attract new players. The Kids today are only going to laugh at Ultima Online be it either CC or EC. No players unfamiliar to Ultima Online are going to want to play a game with such low resolution.

If UO was bringing in new players they wouldn't be doing a RTB (which they messed up big time).

 

[Promathia]

If so many people play will minecraft, then they will play UO.

Having fun > Graphics

 

[Madrid]

If so many people play will minecraft, then they will play UO.

Having fun > Graphics

Where are they then? Why haven't they joined already? It's been how many years now and UO continues it'd downward spiral?

No amount of content is going to attract new players if UO stays the same from a visual standpoint. Note: UO already has the content and it hasn't attracted new players.

Subscription rates continue to suffer from attrition and will continue to do so.

The reality is no new players have been coming to Ultima Online and nothing in the future will change that unless the game looks drastically different than it does now.

 

[Promathia]

Where are they then? Why haven't they joined already? It's been how many years now and UO continues it'd downward spiral?

No amount of content is going to attract new players if UO stays the same from a visual standpoint. Note: UO already has the content and it hasn't attracted new players.

Subscription rates continue to suffer from attrition and will continue to do so.

The reality is no new players have been coming to Ultima Online and nothing in the future will change that unless the game looks drastically different than it does now.

Listen, there arent new players because
1. The game has a very poor NPE
2. EA has done ZEROOOOOO to promote UO until recently

I honestly dont think graphics has anything to do with it. Anyone I know who has quit UO, surely didnt quit because of graphics.

 

[Viper09]

Where are they then? Why haven't they joined already? It's been how many years now and UO continues it'd downward spiral?

They haven't joined because unlike Minecraft not many people are aware of UO. You go out onto the street and start asking gamers about Minecraft you can bet that most people will know what you're talking about. Do the same for UO and you will probably get a mix of "That game still exists?" to "what is that?"

 

[Madrid]

Listen, there arent new players because
I honestly dont think graphics has anything to do with it. Anyone I know who has quit UO, surely didnt quit because of graphics.

No they never say that, they just quit. Then they turn around and play games with better graphics.

Yet graphics don't matter.

 

[LordDrago]

You all need to quit whining about who is right and who is wrong in regards to why UO can't get new players in.

Is it graphics? yes
Is it New Player Experience (or lack thereof)? yes
Is it bugs not getting fixed? yes
Is it no promotions? yes

Each of you is right, and each of you is wrong.

People are individuals. To some, graphics matter, to others it doesn't. Same goes for all of the other reasons each of you is advocating as "THE ANSWER".

Once this is realized, then, perhaps, we can make headway to resolving ALL of the issues impacting Ultima Online.

 

[Promathia]

No they never say that, they just quit. Then they turn around and play games with better graphics.

Yet graphics don't matter.

Because they get attracted by games that are being heavily promoted or with very good of mouth....which is newer games...which have new graphics lol

Thing about new MMO's is that they usually dont last. So those people who quit UO for a newer game, eventually quit that one for another...and another ect ect.

 

[Petra Fyde]

I think we've reached the 'going around in circles' stage. Let's end this one.