[UO Herald] Letter from the Producer

[FrejaSP]

its not that easy to put a vendor search option in game - you will also need a possibility to LEAD the customers to the vendors they want to buy from - this might work if you have a "gate" or "recall" option to the vendor on the menu - or simple get teleported there if you wish to (Nice for FEL Vendors and Traps lol) - there should not be a auction house and the unique vendor system cancled PLS dont even think about it DEV's!

I too would like it to be an ingame seach interface.
I think it could be made possible to mark a rune to the shop if you are carring one. I'm not all happy about this options.
I do believe it would be possible to use the track system for it, so you get name of the sub server, main town near and a track arrow to show the way.
Also the ingame maps could be used, carry an emty scroll and you can target it to get a map for the lokation.
It have to be ways both for mages and for non mages, I would love to see players traveling more insted of jumping from place to place

I would hate to see the interface on a webside as I want players to be ingame and not surfing a webpage standing afk ingame.

 

[blinkdog]

Having the vendor search system hork up a rune to the shop would be an ideal situation. It wouldn't be much different than the way people drop runes to their shops now, except it saves the merchants work and lets the shoppers make more informed decisions.

 

[Picus of Napa]

You could charge for the rune say 10K gold,it might sink a few mil a month....

This is the problem though in that people will want the system expanded to fit thier own needs more than a simple fix like milking the current website till we get people fresh or back to the game.

 

[Uriah Heep]

One of those "sites that cant be named" shows you a map to the vendor...I mean, why do we need a recall option to it in the new one? Have we gotten so bad off we can't even get anywhere on our own? I've seen this mentioned so many time, and it just seems like dev time that could be better used somewhere else.

 

[Gorbs]

One of those "sites that cant be named" shows you a map to the vendor...I mean, why do we need a recall option to it in the new one? Have we gotten so bad off we can't even get anywhere on our own? I've seen this mentioned so many time, and it just seems like dev time that could be better used somewhere else.

An in-game search will have to give you some indication or clue as to where the vendor is located that has the item(s) you want. You could add a map, coordinates, etc., but I like the idea of a magic gateway that will take you there for a fee. Regardless of what direction you go it will require development resources.

 

[Tina Small]

One of those "sites that cant be named" shows you a map to the vendor...I mean, why do we need a recall option to it in the new one? Have we gotten so bad off we can't even get anywhere on our own? I've seen this mentioned so many time, and it just seems like dev time that could be better used somewhere else.

Agreed. If a vendor search system gives you the facet and house coordinates, all you would have to do if using the EC to get an idea of where it is located is switch your map view to the Atlas, pick the correct facet and then mouse over the map until you find the location. The atlas displays the coordinates for where the mouse pointer currently is in the upper left corner. You just move it in various directions until you get the coordinates to match up with what you've been given. If you have a basic understanding of how to read the coordinates and can look at the map and all the information it gives you about nearby landmarks, roads, towns, etc., you shouldn't have any trouble finding a location. I would imagine you can do something similar in the CC if you're using one of the mapping options that coordinates with UO Assist to derive coordinates, i.e., just use the mapping utilities feature for looking up coordinate locations. I would imagine that on shards with smaller populations, you would soon end up with runes for your favorite shops anyway.

For new or returning players, I would think having to look up coordinates on a map if they need to go buy something would actually be a good way to help familiarize or refamiliarize them with UO's geography. There's also nothing that stops people who run rune libraries from setting out books filled with shop runes. That used to be fairly common practice in the past and sure would be exciting to see it happen again.

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

While I don't play anymore I have to admit seeing the return of Order vs Chaos brings me a small smile, I hated factions from the word go, I knew even back then it would never work and only ever saw it eclipsing the already perfect system we had in it's place. It used to be an honor to wear a Chaos or Order shield, it was something you had to pay for in blood, and even those who did not pvp had a certain respect for O/C players. It's also interesting that looking back, while the system was really simplistic it worked, we didn't have sigils but we certainly had Order and Chaos towns, at least I can speak for this on Atlantic.

I miss those days personally, you were never safe, you could be banking and all of a sudden you see orange names popping up all over the place, you could be hunting mobs and suddenly another random O/C player wanting to do the same would see you and bang you had an instant battle, everything else was secondary. I also hope the new art will be good.

 

[Picus at the office]

While I don't play anymore I have to admit seeing the return of Order vs Chaos brings me a small smile, I hated factions from the word go, I knew even back then it would never work and only ever saw it eclipsing the already perfect system we had in it's place. It used to be an honor to wear a Chaos or Order shield, it was something you had to pay for in blood, and even those who did not pvp had a certain respect for O/C players. It's also interesting that looking back, while the system was really simplistic it worked, we didn't have sigils but we certainly had Order and Chaos towns, at least I can speak for this on Atlantic.

I miss those days personally, you were never safe, you could be banking and all of a sudden you see orange names popping up all over the place, you could be hunting mobs and suddenly another random O/C player wanting to do the same would see you and bang you had an instant battle, everything else was secondary. I also hope the new art will be good.

Sadly some people never saw what was so magical about this type of playstyle. Epic is all I can say.

 

[phantus]

I respect the opinion of the posters that do not want to see a vendor search in the game. Having said that, I don't agree with any of their objections as I have seen AH systems in many many games that do not show the problems some people believe can occur. If any dev bothers to read these comments(as I'm more and more thinking this was just to distract us and give us something to argue about to keep us busy) please put together some kind of poll as to what it should be. If we are going to hamstring this system by not making the purchase instant or at the very least a click to recall feature(without costing me) then don't bother. I will continue to use the illegal sites I have been using for years because these limits will not be a worthwhile addition to the game.

 

[Thrakkar]

To start celebrating this we are bringing back Return to Britannia for the whole month of September. I hope to see old friends and new ones! Let me go ahead and assure everyone that they cannot place houses (see we have learned from past mistakes =P)

So, does this mean, I can simply log in in a few hours? Or has there something to be done to activate the "Return to Britannia"?

 

[Viper09]

If memory serves well then I think you can just log in without having to do anything.

 

[Woodsman]

One of those "sites that cant be named" shows you a map to the vendor...I mean, why do we need a recall option to it in the new one? Have we gotten so bad off we can't even get anywhere on our own? I've seen this mentioned so many time, and it just seems like dev time that could be better used somewhere else.

This. Think of it as a way to get people traveling the lands of Sosaria again. Having it spit out runes, etc. just makes it more of a complex system. It needs to be simple as it can be made, because the more complex things get, the more chances they break or the more testing they need.

You could charge for the rune say 10K gold,it might sink a few mil a month....

This goes back to making it difficult/discouraging people from using it. If somebody is looking for cheap stuff, say a new player, well you've just discouraged them or made it expensive for them to visit multiple vendors, and you've just screwed the vendors, because even if they have some weapon for cheap that somebody might want, well it's basically had a 10,000gp tax added to it.

10K gold may not sound like a lot, but if somebody wants to visit 10 or 20 different vendors, you've just discouraged them because all of the sudden they are looking at 100,000 or 200,000 gold. There is nothing good about discouraging people from using a system that everybody could benefit from.

I think you should just get the coordinates anyways. Less chances of griefing if you have to travel somewhere on mount.

 

[blinkdog]

Oh jeez.

1) Trying to make vendor search a goldsink is a terrible idea since everyone will just ignore it and keep using existing search sites for free. Your goldsink won't sink any gold once no one is using it.

2) Look, I hate to break it to you guys, but it's 2012 and people recall everywhere in UO. Deal with it. There's no reason to cripple this system before it's even out of the cradle. Having the system give out runes is a sure-fire way to make it more convenient and useful than illegal search sites. (Even if, god forbid, the EA implementation isn't 100% sparkling.) It's the thing that drives a stake into the heart of goldseller vendor searches.

3) While we're at it, let's look at the math. Let's suppose that after we disregard multiple accounts and such there are 20k active players, and that they each spend an average of a mere two minutes per day running to vendors. Maybe more one day, maybe less another, but an average of two minutes per day. That doesn't sound like much. Except...

2 minutes x 7 days = 14 minutes per week
14 minutes x 52 weeks / 60 minutes in an hour = 12.13 hours per year

Across the entire game that means...

12.13 hours x 20000 players = 242,600 hours
242,600 hours / 24 hours per day = 10,108 days
10,108 days / 365 days per year = 27.69 years

Great you just sucked thirty man-years of playtime, per year, away from UO players because people "traveling Sosaria" scratches some emotional itch of yours. Gee that isn't selfish. And you wonder why there's nobody at the bank.

 

[Tanivar]

• Enhanced UI Improvements for EC client

Can the EC be given the switchable option to have the look and feel, aside from graphics, of the CC? That would be a vast UI Improvement that might get the rest of us willing to switch to the EC. The EC's look and feel is just not good.

 

[Felonious Monk]

I disagree, i dont feel like recalling to X and trying to find some small house out in the woods to find whatever is for sale. Luna is much closer and easier

I Agree.I feel like recalling to x and on top of that I think a vendor search system is bigger than my and your individual opinions. Finding "whatever is on sale" would be what the system shows you before you recall.

 

[Woodsman]

2) Look, I hate to break it to you guys, but it's 2012 and people recall everywhere in UO. Deal with it.

I was trying to look at a positive aspect of keeping it simple. If a vendor search is not kept simple, then it will become something so big that the team won't be able to implement it. Remember, it's a small team. If things start adding up, vendor search won't happen.

Can the EC be given the switchable option to have the look and feel, aside from graphics, of the CC? That would be a vast UI Improvement that might get the rest of us willing to switch to the EC. The EC's look and feel is just not good.

Somebody could take the current EC UI and mod it to look like the CC right now. There just isn't enough interest/demand for the people who can do that. The tools exist though and are discussed in the EC Forum.

 

[Tanivar]

Somebody could take the current EC UI and mod it to look like the CC right now. There just isn't enough interest/demand for the people who can do that. The tools exist though and are discussed in the EC Forum.

Then it should be easy for the Devs who know how to do it to do it, and add in any appropriate feature switches. Most players, I imagine even EC users, have no idea how to do the mods, or any desire to put in the hours to learn how. Provide the EC mods for a CC look & feel as a convenient accessory option that is part of the UOHerald client download and the numbers in a Poll of who uses the EC or CC may shift dramatically in favor of the EC.

My biggest problem with the EC as it comes with the UOHerald download, even with Pinco's work, is it's look & feel. Give CC user's the look & feel they like in the EC UI and most would likely make the switch from the CC to the EC's CC.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

The Modder that created the Legacy UI for the KR client is no longer at this time modding. I created a Third Dawn UI theme for Pinco's UI to do my own take on a Legacy mod without stepping on that modder's work. (BTW: All of the textures used for the Third Dawn theme are from the 2d client files via Inside UO and built to closely match the textures used in the old 3D client.

It also depends on "the look and feel". Some of the aspects of the Legacy UI are already in place and others simply cannot be replicated directly (i.e. you can still have one-slot hotbars all over the place, to mimic putting icons all over the screen, but you can't simply drag a spell icon out onto the screen without putting it into a hotbar. Also the macro system functions much differently than the Legacy version, since it also has MANY more options and abilities, there's no reason for a modder to attempt to change that portion of the UI to mimic the 2d client.

Some aspects of the 2d UI would take quite a downgrade to the EC UI to occur and thus I doubt you'll see a modder attempt these actions. Most modders I have worked with have worked to bring in new features, not strip them out.

 

[Kojak]

My biggest problem with the EC as it comes with the UOHerald download, even with Pinco's work, is it's look & feel. Give CC user's the look & feel they like in the EC UI and most would likely make the switch from the CC to the EC's CC.

I'm so sick of reading posts about how if they just did this or they just did that to the EC that the CC people would switch to it - let me put that whole idea / concept in the proper perspective for you - I will never switch to the EC client as will most CC client users - it works like crap, feels like crap, and is crap - stop trying to make us give up the CC - we never will - we'll quit first - the EC is such a steaming pile of non-responsive crap that I have no intention of ever running it - everything about the way it works is terrible - so sick of these they'll switch posts - no we won't - if they stop supporting the CC, we'll find another game - plain and simple

 

[Poo]

Finally, we got a producer's letter that sounds like it was written by a producer of an MMO! It's been a few years since we got one of those.

High resolution graphics and improved EC tells me somebody realizes that new players are needed.

Chaos/Order tells me somebody realized that Factions wasn't working and that many former players loved Chaos/Order. This could bring some people back to UO.

Once my pre-paid time expires after the anniversary, I may just keep an account open and keep an eye on all of this.

sweet jesus.... you mean ALL the complaining you do and you dont even play the bloody game!
hahahahahaha!

 

[Picus of Napa]

The 10K idea was just a thought on how to use this to sink some gold, used or not I couldn't care but everyone talks about sinking to do something about the inflation. This all said I don't think some noob is bouncing around to 20 spots looking to finish his suit given that you can do that all in luna almost on the same screen on 80% of the shards.

Like it or not don't hold your breath waiting for this or the other 15 ideas to get into the game.

 

[Tanivar]

I'm so sick of reading posts about how if they just did this or they just did that to the EC that the CC people would switch to it - let me put that whole idea / concept in the proper perspective for you - I will never switch to the EC client as will most CC client users - it works like crap, feels like crap, and is crap - stop trying to make us give up the CC - we never will - we'll quit first - the EC is such a steaming pile of non-responsive crap that I have no intention of ever running it - everything about the way it works is terrible - so sick of these they'll switch posts - no we won't - if they stop supporting the CC, we'll find another game - plain and simple

From what Dermott posted above your post, the EC isn't capable enough to imitate the CC. He's a modder with experience so he'd know.

This means the CC is the only way to get the UI look and feel we like. It would have been nice though to have access to the EC's good features if we could have avoided all the garbage that comes with them in the default EC and that remain even with Pinco's mods. The best of both UI's would have made for a really nice UI

Ah well.

 

[Woodsman]

sweet jesus.... you mean ALL the complaining you do and you dont even play the bloody game!
hahahahahaha!

sweet jesus.... reading comprehension hahahahahahaha

I never said I didn't play poo, I said "Once my pre-paid time expires after the anniversary, I may just keep an account open and keep an eye on all of this." I'll let my other ones close as their pre-paid time runs out (and I'll fill out the surveys about why I'm not re-subbing them), but I'm willing to keep my main open if it looks like they are going to move forward. I hate going month-to-month, but I'm willing to see how things play out with a single account. I may just do a 90-day pre-paid to make it a little cheaper.

Although I am actually strained for time to play, I have GW2 going on this weekend with some friends.

 

[Flutter]

sweet jesus.... you mean ALL the complaining you do and you dont even play the bloody game!
hahahahahaha!

I think you misread his post my friend. He said he uses "pre-paid" cards that's all.

 

[Lady Silverbrook]

sweet jesus.... you mean ALL the complaining you do and you dont even play the bloody game!
hahahahahaha!

I find it odd that you are passively aggessively trolling a thread/poster and you carry a 'mod' title.

 

[Poo]

why cant Mod's be people too?

i find it odd that you find that odd.

 

[Poo]

sweet jesus.... reading comprehension hahahahahahaha

I never said I didn't play poo, I said "Once my pre-paid time expires after the anniversary, I may just keep an account open and keep an eye on all of this." I'll let my other ones close as their pre-paid time runs out (and I'll fill out the surveys about why I'm not re-subbing them), but I'm willing to keep my main open if it looks like they are going to move forward. I hate going month-to-month, but I'm willing to see how things play out with a single account. I may just do a 90-day pre-paid to make it a little cheaper.

Although I am actually strained for time to play, I have GW2 going on this weekend with some friends.

ah all right.
i thought for a minute there you where playing armchair quarterback there on us.

 

[Woodsman]

This means the CC is the only way to get the UI look and feel we like. It would have been nice though to have access to the EC's good features if we could have avoided all the garbage that comes with them in the default EC and that remain even with Pinco's mods. The best of both UI's would have made for a really nice UI

Maybe some of the work on the EC's UI will include some of the things that would make it easier for somebody to make it function like the CC. The EC UI should be one of the easier things on that list of things they are thinking about.

Has anybody tried to break things down into whether or not they are difficult to do?

Difficult
Currency Conversion/Gold - has to be done right and would be a testing-intensive system.
Revising UO Armor to make all types useful again - see currency conversion
Chaos/Order - see currency conversion
Battleground shard - could be bumped down to moderate if they use the existing arena stuff and character copy and keep the world simple.

Moderate
High Res Art - depends on how far they got before they stopped in June or July
Revising pet slots - could be easier if they don't change anything else
Pet Revamp - depends on what they mean by revamp
Reworking champ spawns - depends on how far they want to take it
New sea creatures and encounters
Meer/Juka Loyality quests

Easier
Vendor search - depends on if they have an in-house dedicated database programmer. Could be easy since they are taking data that already exists and since there have been a couple of database optimizations over the years.
New Art pieces
New Paperdoll
New tasteful hues on tameables other than cu sidhes
Enhanced UI Improvements for EC client
Add new items to fishing and fishing quest rewards
New wearable’s for both male and female

I do admit some of that is dependent upon whether or not they replaced some of the people who left, like the world builder(s) and/or how long it took them to get people up to speed such as the new artist.

 

[Woodsman]

ah all right.
i thought for a minute there you where playing armchair quarterback there on us.

No, although actually it made me look at what I said to give you the impression that I had closed all of my accounts. If I close all of my accounts again, trust me, you'll know, I will be done with UO, Stratics, everything. When I've left UO in the past, I don't hang around because I don't have time to discuss or follow games I don't play. I have games that I haven't even opened the boxes or registered yet.

I do want to see how the story arc plays out with Blackthorn. Blackthorn vs Dupre would actually be a pretty good way to intro a new O/C system in place of factions now that I think about it. I hope they don't kill one or the other off next month.

 

[Picus of Napa]

After I delete this game there will never be another MMORPG in my house, I'd rather play BF3 or Civ5.

 

[Poo]

i hear ya guys.

15 years of UO, i think if and when im ever done ill go back to RL.
BUT, i cant see that happening.

being able to log on at any time of the day or night and run into people and play with them is just too handy!

 

[Tanivar]

Maybe some of the work on the EC's UI will include some of the things that would make it easier for somebody to make it function like the CC. The EC UI should be one of the easier things on that list of things they are thinking about.

Is there an offical guide somewhere on how to mod the EC? I think I'll put some time into learning how to do it and see what I can come up with. Maybe I can come up with something at least I'm happy with, and consider the best of both worlds.

My years ago programming experience was with Fortran, Basic, and Machine Language. Is knowledge of a more modern programming language necessary?

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Modding the EC to run effectively like the CC UI would be like me going out and stripping the power steering, power disc brakes, traction control, Bluetooth and XM radio, and power windows and locks from my 2011 Genesis Coupe so it would run like my 1968 Camaro. Both have their own style and appeal and both have their own set of features. However, I must note that we DID add power steering to the Camaro as part of the restoration and are considering swapping from drums to power discs for brakes.

The VAST majority of CC users also use UOA... an EXTERNAL hack program. You cannot claim the superiority of the CC's UI while this is the case. If someone has to add an outside program for the UI to work properly, it really wasn't that good of a UI to begin with. The same holds true for the EC UI and the UI mods like Pinco's. The EC modding community recognized the deficiencies in the EC UI and have been given the ability to modify it within the confines of the game.

My years ago programming experience was with Fortran, Basic, and Machine Language. Is knowledge of a more modern programming language necessary?

Yes. The Textures are in DDS format and you'll need a graphics program that can use that format such as Gimp to modify them. The placement of UI features, fonts used, etc. is done in XML and the scripting for the features is done in LUA.

I will never switch to the EC client as will most CC client users

This attitude will ensure that UO continues the slide into obscurity. The older the CC gets, the more UO gives up in the MMOG realm and becomes more and more a niche title instead of a marquee title.

 

[LordDrago]

3) While we're at it, let's look at the math. Let's suppose that after we disregard multiple accounts and such there are 20k active players, and that they each spend an average of a mere two minutes per day running to vendors. Maybe more one day, maybe less another, but an average of two minutes per day. That doesn't sound like much. Except...

2 minutes x 7 days = 14 minutes per week
14 minutes x 52 weeks / 60 minutes in an hour = 12.13 hours per year

Across the entire game that means...

12.13 hours x 20000 players = 242,600 hours
242,600 hours / 24 hours per day = 10,108 days
10,108 days / 365 days per year = 27.69 years

Great you just sucked thirty man-years of playtime, per year, away from UO players because people "traveling Sosaria" scratches some emotional itch of yours. Gee that isn't selfish. And you wonder why there's nobody at the bank.

To be honest, I am not really liking this math:

"traveling Sosaria" is actually playing the game. Your same math analogy could be applied to many part of the game that someone may not want - hunting for treasure map spots, travelling in the lost lands, travelling in the abyss, having to collect keys to fight a boss, etc.


personally, I like the idea of a map with facet/coordinates. Not hard to either implement or too hard on the players.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

personally, I like the idea of a map with facet/coordinates. Not hard to either implement or too hard on the players.

This makes sense. In the EC it could also put a Waypoint on the map in the Atlas system.

 

[blinkdog]

Honestly I can only hope the developers are smart enough to ignore some crazy person who is offended by people recalling to places and wants us all to spend as much time as possible running mindlessly through empty forest.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

I'm so sick of reading posts about how if they just did this or they just did that to the EC that the CC people would switch to it - let me put that whole idea / concept in the proper perspective for you - I will never switch to the EC client as will most CC client users - it works like crap, feels like crap, and is crap - stop trying to make us give up the CC - we never will - we'll quit first - the EC is such a steaming pile of non-responsive crap that I have no intention of ever running it - everything about the way it works is terrible - so sick of these they'll switch posts - no we won't - if they stop supporting the CC, we'll find another game - plain and simple

Either your PC is steaming pile of crap, or you haven't bothered trying to use the EC in earnest in several years. Possibly both.

In any event, you don't know WTF you're talking about and are content in spreading your ignorance.

 

[Tanivar]

...

Modding the EC to run effectively like the CC UI would be like me going out and stripping the power steering, power disc brakes, traction control, Bluetooth and XM radio, and power windows and locks from my 2011 Genesis Coupe so it would run like my 1968 Camaro. Both have their own style and appeal and both have their own set of features. However, I must note that we DID add power steering to the Camaro as part of the restoration and are considering swapping from drums to power discs for brakes.

I actually look for cars with the option of not having power steering, power brakes, power windows and all that stops-working-right-in-a-few-years stuff. I drive a car until it can't get to where I want to go without the help of a tow truck, then I replace it.

The VAST majority of CC users also use UOA... an EXTERNAL hack program. You cannot claim the superiority of the CC's UI while this is the case.

The look & feel of the EC is not good. More capabilities don't over-ride that.

Yes. The Textures are in DDS format and you'll need a graphics program that can use that format such as Gimp to modify them. The placement of UI features, fonts used, etc. is done in XML and the scripting for the features is done in LUA.

Gimp I have. XML & LUA, I'll get beginners books from the library to check out and see if an old dog can still learn new tricks. I'd assumed the client mod thing was something built into the EC client until I couldn't turn up a way to get to such a feature.

This attitude will ensure that UO continues the slide into obscurity. The older the CC gets, the more UO gives up in the MMOG realm and becomes more and more a niche title instead of a marquee title.

You have to keep in mind that most Polls people start wind up showing about half use EC and half use CC. Some people just prefer the CC's look & feel and won't give it up for a look & feel they don't like, even if it means not having the EC's features that sound nice. I may try to come up with a happy medium at least I'm happy with. Something with pretty much the CC's look and feel, and some of the EC's features in the background.

Until EA comes up with a happy medium at least 90% of the players like to use, dropping either client would be a Bad Thing.

 

[Uriah Heep]

may try to come up with a happy medium at least I'm happy with. Something with pretty much the CC's look and feel, and some of the EC's features in the background

See if you can fix it where it doesn't stack everything on top of another in a vendor backpack, or a chest at home...
.

 

[Tanivar]

Either your PC is steaming pile of crap, or you haven't bothered trying to use the EC in earnest in several years. Possibly both.

In any event, you don't know WTF you're talking about and are content in spreading your ignorance.

It's the look & feel thing with the EC that's the problem. It's just not good, and all it's bells & whistles can't override that. I have the basic EC on both my computers because of the larger game window option for High Seas, but it's impossible to get really into the game with that UI setup so I rarely use it.

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

It's the look & feel thing with the EC that's the problem. It's just not good, and all it's bells & whistles can't override that. I have the basic EC on both my computers because of the larger game window option for High Seas, but it's impossible to get really into the game with that UI setup so I rarely use it.

Your look and feel reasons are far more acceptable than Kojak's "It's crap" BS.

There are things you can do to the UI to make it much more like the CC, including CC packs and paperdolls.

Aside from most mobs, player avatars and the ground, everything else is ripped directly out of the CC. Granted, the art was upscaled 1.5ish times using the poorest method possible...but graphics designed for the archaic 800x600 resolution aren't going to look "good" on modern equipment - unless you like playing in a postage stamp.

Download Pinco's and turn on his versions of the Classic stuff (backpacks, etc). Hotbars look very, very similar to the mass of icons most CC users have, but they add better targeting functionality and can act as counters for consumables at the same time.

Aside from the grid backpacks that many CC users despise, what else in the UI don't you like?

 

[Picus of Napa]

Tough luck for those that think that the EC is where it's at. Do you all really think that for a fleeting moment they would have left the CC alive if it was clear that the majority of the users liked the EC? Do you not think for one moment that the ego driven side of whom ever wrote that pile didn't wish that his/her stamp was the living legacy of UO, at 15 year old MMORPG?

The CC is the dominant client for a collection of reasons. It looks better to some, runs smoother for others, can be scripted for some and speeds easier. People have been playing the same client for 15 years and if they wanted a different look they would switch to a more current game. People play the CC cause that is what they like, period. Kill the client and you will kill half the subs if not more.

 

[Spiritless]

Either your PC is steaming pile of crap, or you haven't bothered trying to use the EC in earnest in several years. Possibly both.

In any event, you don't know WTF you're talking about and are content in spreading your ignorance.

Thing is, he's right. My PC is perfectly capable of running games like WoW, GW2, Darkfall, Sims 3 etc. etc. etc. yet the EC is prone to lagging when walking through a decorated WBB or areas where there's numerous mobs.

Additionally there's some fundamental bugs in the EC client which seriously impedes gameplay. It crashes a lot inexplicably for me and there's a really annoying bug right now which means healthbars stop updating and show 100% for everything. I made a thread about these issues and was told even by one of the client's staunch supporters that this is simply the state of play right now and that's how things are. Lovely.

The EC has potential and I do like the convenient little additions that are in it, which surprised me slightly as I've always been a dedicated CC user. The issue is there are some really fundamental problems with it right now which makes it not a credible alternative to people looking for a decent and consistent gameplay experience. It seriously puts people such as myself off who tried the recent version of it with an open mind after its release years ago only to find really basic problems with it that should have been ironed out during the first months of its launch, not still lingering after years of supposed development.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

People have been playing the same client for 15 years and if they wanted a different look they would switch to a more current game.

Which could explain the general decline of subscriptions, or at least should be considered a significant factor (among plenty of others).

Noone who plays the EC has ever claimed that it is perfect. In fact if you talked to an EC player, they'd easily give you PLENTY of things that need to be improved. KR was (obviously) released FAAR too early and never had a real chance to get polished the way it should have been and the EC was what happened when you compromised with people who were never going to use the client in the first place... low resolution graphics with piss poor scaling to higher resolution.

If you think that I believe the EC is in any way perfect then you need to read this. It was written almost two years ago and STILL remains current to this day.

However, that being said, the CC has been an anchor on the game as a whole and has stifled what could actually be done with UO on a technical level. The original vision for KR would have broken that anchor, but the mismanagement of the release of that client followed by moving the team cross country and losing a significant portion of the KR team put an end to that vision, so we are stuck, anchored to the CC because there is no longer the willingness to risk breaking away from the anchor in order to bring the game up to more current quality standards.

As for me personally, I'm not content with the quality of the EC currently, I want the Devs to do BETTER. I want the game of UO to be BETTER. I'm aiming for a higher level of quality... the continual push that a game that CAN evolve, like UO, will evolve. Right now I'm more active in a game that has had gameplay problems and player complaints, but went a HUGE step in resolving those complaints in the recent patch/publish and have already talked about what they are looking at for the next patch/publish. That team has been more active and open with the playerbase without the excuse of having to run everything past Legal/PR/Marketing before giving the heavily edited and redacted version to the players. Once UO begins in this direction, I will feel more inclined to be more active within and around the game again.

I for one and NOT content to use a 15 year old client. I don't run a Pentium 233Mhz with Windows 95 anymore, why should I be content to run a client built for that era?

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

Thing is, he's right. My PC is perfectly capable of running games like WoW, GW2, Darkfall, Sims 3 etc. etc. etc. yet the EC is prone to lagging when walking through a decorated WBB or areas where there's numerous mobs.

Houses and things will take a bit to load into the client's cache, this can create lag - at first. Repeated trips to that area won't lag anywhere near as bad. Excess mobs/players/spells can lag the client and there is definitely room for improvement here, though these days a well-tuned EC is pretty much on par with the CC (in this particular case).

(The WBB situation is one that lags both clients since they both see the deco there as just things piled on the ground. Were these changes incorporated into shard-specific map files, neither client would lag at all from such deco.)

Additionally there's some fundamental bugs in the EC client which seriously impedes gameplay. It crashes a lot inexplicably for me and there's a really annoying bug right now which means healthbars stop updating and show 100% for everything. I made a thread about these issues and was told even by one of the client's staunch supporters that this is simply the state of play right now and that's how things are. Lovely.

Most of the random crashes seem to have been fixed with Pub. 78, though there still appears to be a memory leak relating to large-scale particle effects. I haven't noticed the healthbar issue since this publish either, but I'm not willing to say it's been fixed.

The EC has potential and I do like the convenient little additions that are in it, which surprised me slightly as I've always been a dedicated CC user. The issue is there are some really fundamental problems with it right now which makes it not a credible alternative to people looking for a decent and consistent gameplay experience. It seriously puts people such as myself off who tried the recent version of it with an open mind after its release years ago only to find really basic problems with it that should have been ironed out during the first months of its launch, not still lingering after years of supposed development.

The Devs never should have caved to EA Japan's silliness of giving out a launch date without knowing WTF they were talking about. A big part of the EC's problem is that since it was released too early, no Dev Team has bothered to sit down and dedicate some time to fix the long standing issues unless the players bitched loudly enough. Hell, writing in a book is still borked beyond usability and no Dev has said they'd take the 20 mins to fix it Personally, I like playing at modern resolutions and have a hard time doing anything in the tiny CC window. But then I also prefer the usability of the grid packs over the "realism" of the jumbled CC packs *shrugs* KR graphics didn't bother me either (well, I hated 99% of the item graphics) but then I'm not all nostalgic about sprites made in 1996, I'm here for the content and the people.

 

[Spiritless]

...
I for one and NOT content to use a 15 year old client. I don't run a Pentium 233Mhz with Windows 95 anymore, why should I be content to run a client built for that era?

Because it works.

The fact EA have failed to produce a client which is credibly able to supersede a 15-year-old one says it all, really.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Because it works.

The fact EA have failed to produce a client which is credibly able to supersede a 15-year-old one says it all, really.

The EC works, in some ways much better than the CC... doesn't mean that it's anywhere near perfect.

As for the last sentence, I don't lay that on the client I lay that at the feet of management of the game in releasing the client long before any of the main issues have been resolved then not doing anything to resolve those issues years after the fact. That's not a failure of the client or the superiority of the CC, that's the failure of the Devs and Management.

 

[blinkdog]

The dirty little secret EC lovers never want to confront is that its performance on any given machine is essentially voodoo and has nothing to do with the specifications of that machine. Your PC exceeds the listed requirements? Maybe the EC will run nicely. Maybe it'll chug constantly. Who knows?

 

[Spiritless]

The EC works, in some ways much better than the CC... doesn't mean that it's anywhere near perfect.

As for the last sentence, I don't lay that on the client I lay that at the feet of management of the game in releasing the client long before any of the main issues have been resolved then not doing anything to resolve those issues years after the fact. That's not a failure of the client or the superiority of the CC, that's the failure of the Devs and Management.

My issue was with fundamental, core functionality. I tried EC and I want to use the EC because, as you said, in some ways it does work better than the CC and undoubtedly provides a more modern and user-friendly experience. It just gets very frustrating dealing with basic problems like crashes, health bars which don't work and performance issues on a machine that far exceeds its requirements. These are sorts of problems that are detrimental enough to warrant immediate patches, not being left for months/years.

I agree with you btw in regards to how the clients have been managed. No-one's issue should be with players of either client or the clients themselves. EA should have produced a universal client which had a high enough production quality from the outset that made retiring the CC a credible option. Instead their mismanagement has led to the majority sticking with the CC purely because it's the most stable with some refusing to try the EC again, rightly or wrongly, because of prior bad experiences.

The CC is old and it's not a good client in terms of usability. It certainly doesn't match up to other MMO clients or today's gamers' expectations of what an MMO client should be. The EC is more in line with those things, but people simply aren't willing to put up with the numerous basic issues that plague it which wouldn't be left present in most serious production-level MMO in the current market and if they did manifest they'd be addressed promptly.

I'm hoping one day EA get serious about the EC and get things sorted, but until then you really can't blame staunch supporters of the CC client for being firm in their stance to continue using it.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Spiritless, I think we're agreeing more than disagreeing so let me add this:

First of all, I have ZERO quarrel with the people who have made the effort to try the EC and still having problems. My advice for the time being would be to check the EC forum or to ask questions there. Sometimes the answer can be as simple as updating video drivers or some other drivers involved. Beyond that, help us keep the dev's feet to the fire in regards to improving the EC.

The people I DO take issue with are those that refuse to use anything but the CC REGARDLESS of the quality of the EC or any more modern client. These are the people that will ALWAYS say that "The new client SUCKS and I'll never play it" even if the client in question were to be effectively perfect. These are the people who are an anchor to the quality of the game as a whole even beyond the mismanagement of developing the newer clients.