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Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19)
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13)
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19)
If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12)
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15)
From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24)
Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21)
"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7)
Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives ****d by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18)
(Moses) stood at the entrance to the camp and shouted, "All of you who are on the LORD's side, come over here and join me." And all the Levites came. He told them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Strap on your swords! Go back and forth from one end of the camp to the other, killing even your brothers, friends, and neighbors." The Levites obeyed Moses, and about three thousand people died that day. Then Moses told the Levites, "Today you have been ordained for the service of the LORD, for you obeyed him even though it meant killing your own sons and brothers. Because of this, he will now give you a great blessing." (Exodus 32:26-29)
While the Israelites were camped at Acacia, some of the men defiled themselves by sleeping with the local Moabite women. These women invited them to attend sacrifices to their gods, and soon the Israelites were feasting with them and worshiping the gods of Moab. Before long Israel was joining in the worship of Baal of Peor, causing the LORD's anger to blaze against his people. The LORD issued the following command to Moses: "Seize all the ringleaders and execute them before the LORD in broad daylight, so his fierce anger will turn away from the people of Israel." So Moses ordered Israel's judges to execute everyone who had joined in worshiping Baal of Peor. Just then one of the Israelite men brought a Midianite woman into the camp, right before the eyes of Moses and all the people, as they were weeping at the entrance of the Tabernacle. When Phinehas son of Eleazar and grandson of Aaron the priest saw this, he jumped up and left the assembly. Then he took a spear and rushed after the man into his tent. Phinehas thrust the spear all the way through the man's body and into the woman's stomach. So the plague against the Israelites was stopped, but not before 24,000 people had died. (Numbers 25:1-9)
Man these Muslims are ****ing nuts look at all this crazy ****... oh wait no... this is from the bible.
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13)
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19)
If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12)
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15)
From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24)
Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21)
"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7)
Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives ****d by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18)
(Moses) stood at the entrance to the camp and shouted, "All of you who are on the LORD's side, come over here and join me." And all the Levites came. He told them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Strap on your swords! Go back and forth from one end of the camp to the other, killing even your brothers, friends, and neighbors." The Levites obeyed Moses, and about three thousand people died that day. Then Moses told the Levites, "Today you have been ordained for the service of the LORD, for you obeyed him even though it meant killing your own sons and brothers. Because of this, he will now give you a great blessing." (Exodus 32:26-29)
While the Israelites were camped at Acacia, some of the men defiled themselves by sleeping with the local Moabite women. These women invited them to attend sacrifices to their gods, and soon the Israelites were feasting with them and worshiping the gods of Moab. Before long Israel was joining in the worship of Baal of Peor, causing the LORD's anger to blaze against his people. The LORD issued the following command to Moses: "Seize all the ringleaders and execute them before the LORD in broad daylight, so his fierce anger will turn away from the people of Israel." So Moses ordered Israel's judges to execute everyone who had joined in worshiping Baal of Peor. Just then one of the Israelite men brought a Midianite woman into the camp, right before the eyes of Moses and all the people, as they were weeping at the entrance of the Tabernacle. When Phinehas son of Eleazar and grandson of Aaron the priest saw this, he jumped up and left the assembly. Then he took a spear and rushed after the man into his tent. Phinehas thrust the spear all the way through the man's body and into the woman's stomach. So the plague against the Israelites was stopped, but not before 24,000 people had died. (Numbers 25:1-9)
Man these Muslims are ****ing nuts look at all this crazy ****... oh wait no... this is from the bible.
N
Nestorius
Guest
People who lost love ones never get over it in general. As for knowing NYC, two blocks are a hell of a distance in Lower Manhattan, and there are already Mosques in the neighborhood. I'm not sure the controversy. Doesn't it distract the electorate from real issues?
Also, surely no one here contests that Christianity advocates non-violence and that Christians must never defend themselves with lethal force? What's with the high-horse about Islam?
By the way, America is not the most Christian country in the world... Ireland is more Christian, Italy is, so is much of Latin America.
B
Beer_Cayse
Guest
how about quoting from the New Testament instead? The Old Testament was pre-Christ in time-line and correlates to the same period as the beginnings of the Islamic faith as well.
The New Testament is somewhat milder in content because that is during and after Christ taught the ways desired by God. Also, for one who espouses Atheism, you're rivaling any Christian cleric I can think of.
The New Testament is somewhat milder in content because that is during and after Christ taught the ways desired by God. Also, for one who espouses Atheism, you're rivaling any Christian cleric I can think of.
N
Nestorius
Guest
Christians like to pretend the Old Testament doesn't exist, but funny it consists of 90% of their Holy Book. They speak of the Gospels when trying to convert others but once they come to political power, they start trying to impose Mosaic law on everyone.
B
Beer_Cayse
Guest
<nods> Agreed. I don't have issues with Aran or anyone else quoting those books except that they focus on them which is actually Hebrew/Abrahamic in nature and the culture at that time was as is quoted.
It is the teachings in the New Testament that many apply and allegedly strive to meet ... therefore I would like to see quotations from there as well.
BUT ... if you do compare the intent/words of the Old Testament and some of the quotations from Islamic text there's one hell of a similarity! Perhaps showing that Islam and Christianity are more alike than not?
Oh good grief ... that last statement is likely to set off a firestorm.
It is the teachings in the New Testament that many apply and allegedly strive to meet ... therefore I would like to see quotations from there as well.
BUT ... if you do compare the intent/words of the Old Testament and some of the quotations from Islamic text there's one hell of a similarity! Perhaps showing that Islam and Christianity are more alike than not?
Oh good grief ... that last statement is likely to set off a firestorm.
L
longshanks
Guest
Umm. This is a metaphor and originates from the old text. The chapter in full dicusses ministry and how a house may be divided as some members opt for christianity and some opt for judaism.
Your responses however illustrate my point in regards to religion and how it is used to incite violence and hysteria.
:/
S
Sadrith Mora
Guest
Beer Cayse:
-The unbelievers among the people of the book and the pagans shall burn forever in the fire of hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. -98:51
-Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate. -66:9
-Fight unbelievers who are near you. -9:123 (Another translation: Believers, make war on the infidels who are around you. Let them find harshness in you. (another translation) Ye who believe, murder those of the disbelievers.
-When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. -9:5
-Make war on them until idolatry is no more and allah's religion reigns supreme. -8:39
-But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. -4:89
-Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. -Sura 2:98
-On unbelievers is the curse of allah. -Sura 2:161
That is just some of the many quotes that can be taken from the koran. The intent of islam is to take over the world. They make no bones about it either.
You see it happening in europe, and it's heading this way.
Maybe it's time to stop being so "tolerant".
Here are a few quotes from the koran for you to ponder:
-The unbelievers among the people of the book and the pagans shall burn forever in the fire of hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. -98:51
-Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate. -66:9
-Fight unbelievers who are near you. -9:123 (Another translation: Believers, make war on the infidels who are around you. Let them find harshness in you. (another translation) Ye who believe, murder those of the disbelievers.
-When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. -9:5
-Make war on them until idolatry is no more and allah's religion reigns supreme. -8:39
-But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. -4:89
-Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. -Sura 2:98
-On unbelievers is the curse of allah. -Sura 2:161
That is just some of the many quotes that can be taken from the koran. The intent of islam is to take over the world. They make no bones about it either.
You see it happening in europe, and it's heading this way.
Maybe it's time to stop being so "tolerant".
S
Sadrith Mora
Guest
Oops! Forgot an important quote from the koran for all you islamists:
-Oh believers, take not Jews nor Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. -5:54
-Oh believers, take not Jews nor Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. -5:54
S
Sadrith Mora
Guest
Aran:
I'm guessing you really don't know what you are arguing about?
When Christ entered, it changed everything, and you can find out why by reading the New Testament if you're that curious. It's called Christianity.
*sigh*
I've read the Bible, and i've read your posted quotes. I thought Beer Cayse and longshanks addressed that issue for you.
I'm guessing you really don't know what you are arguing about?
When Christ entered, it changed everything, and you can find out why by reading the New Testament if you're that curious. It's called Christianity.
*sigh*
Not sure what you are arguing here, sorry.
S
Sadrith Mora
Guest
- Gay marriage is not ok if you are a true Christian.
- Being gay is not an option for an individual. It's a cross to carry, and deny yourself of.
I won't respond to anymore of your clueless posts, sorry.
K
Kiminality
Guest
You all need to take a step back.
Seriously.
Sadrith, you are ultimately taking things to an extreme of intolerance.
Aran, you are trolling.
Everyone else... Stuff...
Y'all play nice, and so will I.
Seriously.
Sadrith, you are ultimately taking things to an extreme of intolerance.
Aran, you are trolling.
Everyone else... Stuff...
Y'all play nice, and so will I.
I am not trolling, and in fact it is you that is trolling to even suggest it.
lol. seriously?
Your first post was trolling. Then you came around and actually joined the conversation with a viewpoint and text to support your viewpoint, which I've never seen before from you on UHALL, haha.
Of course, does trolling even matter on OT? I thought it was expected.
Taylor
Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
VIP
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Supporter
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"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." Romans 8:28
If you believe and affirm the statement above, then why are you so concerned about Islam taking over the world?
lol that should be your sig ...
nice to see your come around to the point though
Z
Zin
Guest
Have to admit that you have added more to this conversation than you have to a months worth prior.
What Zin said.
And Aran was right in quoting the Old Testament - isn't it a part of the Christian Bible? Isn't it quoted daily in reading and sermons in christian churches of all denominations?
After all the 10 commandments are in the OLD TESTAMENT too.
Cannot pick and choose which parts you like and therefore they apply, and which parts are "old, Jewish and Jesus did not approve"... ha was an observant Jew after all.
And Aran was right in quoting the Old Testament - isn't it a part of the Christian Bible? Isn't it quoted daily in reading and sermons in christian churches of all denominations?
After all the 10 commandments are in the OLD TESTAMENT too.
Cannot pick and choose which parts you like and therefore they apply, and which parts are "old, Jewish and Jesus did not approve"... ha was an observant Jew after all.
B
Beer_Cayse
Guest
The parts he quotes are the Aramaic/Hebrew portions referred to as the Old Testament - essentially prior to Christ. The New Testament is what seems to be the Christian litmus when weighed against Islam.
IMO, the first time the US authorized air or artillery attacks that killed or wounded civilians, the Ten Commandments were out the window.
IMO, the first time the US authorized air or artillery attacks that killed or wounded civilians, the Ten Commandments were out the window.
Z
Zin
Guest
The US isn't about Christians... It's about Americans. The ten commandments mean nothing to the subject of the nation. It's not a requirement to be an American to believe in anything.
If the Old Testament was "out the window" it wouldn't be commonplace to be quoted, the Ten Commandments wouldn't be an issue, no Christian would be against gays having all the same rights as them, and the whole issue would likely be moot as most of the atrocities committed in the last millenium can be traced back to people claiming to be Christians following the Bible, which as some have said is mostly touchy-feely feel-good crap in the New Testament (Truly a sign of multiple authors and no real connection between the two beyond political motives, but hey, not my religion)
S
Sadrith Mora
Guest
The Old Testament is about the suffering of the Jews, the need for a savior, and the prophecies of the coming "Messiah" who would be the one to make atonement for the offense against God by the sin of Adam & Eve.
Isaiah 7:14 - "Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son and his name shall be called Emmanuel". (Which means "God with us")
Skip ahead several hundred years after this prophecy by Isaiah, and you have the beginning of the New Testament where a virgin named "Mary" was found with child through the Holy Spirit. This is the beginning of Christianity.
Skip ahead past the many teachings and miracles Jesus performed, the last supper betrayal by Judas, Peter's denial of Jesus, to the question by Pontius Pilate before he was to be scourged and crucified. He was asked: "What is truth?" ...Jesus did not respond, and by doing that fulfilled the prophecy in Isaiah 53:7 - "He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that is before it's shearers is dumb, he opened not his mouth."
Prior to that Jesus told his apostles: "I am the way, the truth, and the life."
...
I never said the Old Testament was "out the window". All Christians teach the history from the beginning, but 'everything changed' with Christ.
-A New Covenant established at the last supper: Luke 22:20 - "This cup is the New Covenant in my blood that will be shed for you."
-The Old Covenant becomes obsolete.
-Christ established his church, and "the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
-Christ's teachings are the way of life for his followers.
-No more Mosaic law.
If you want more details i'd suggest reading the catechism of the Catholic church. The 10 commandments are broken down in detail and explained for anyone interested in that subject.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Let's compare that with Islam and the founder Mohammed who declares he is the only true prophet of god. If you don't follow what he says you will be destroyed...
(Jesus warned us about false prophets to come)
Islam is the arabic word meaning "submission".
Crimes of Mohammed against humanity:
-Massacre of unarmed merchants during sacred month.
-Slaughter of Meccans who came to defend their caravans.
-Murdered poets who criticized Mohammed.
-The siege of the Banu Qaynuqa.
-Surprise raids on trade caravans and tribal settlements.
-Use of the plunder to recruit an ever growing army.
-Murdering of opponents.
-Blackmail.
-Expulsion and massacre of the Jews at Medinah.
-Attack and enslavement of the Jews at Khayber.
-**** of women and children.
-Sale of these victims after ****.
-Treachery and bribery to the fullest extent to grow the numbers of his "religion".
-Coveted, stole, and had sex with his own son's wife.
-Married a 6 yr. old girl and had relations with her at age 9.
-Slept and had sex with a dead woman.
-Taught not to take Jews or Christians as friends.
-Invented fake religion and false god to justify these sick acts.
Islam is an evil religion created by an evil man. I don't hate muslims and i'm not a racist. The religion is the issue here. It goes against everything this great country stands for...
-
Isaiah 7:14 - "Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son and his name shall be called Emmanuel". (Which means "God with us")
Skip ahead several hundred years after this prophecy by Isaiah, and you have the beginning of the New Testament where a virgin named "Mary" was found with child through the Holy Spirit. This is the beginning of Christianity.
Skip ahead past the many teachings and miracles Jesus performed, the last supper betrayal by Judas, Peter's denial of Jesus, to the question by Pontius Pilate before he was to be scourged and crucified. He was asked: "What is truth?" ...Jesus did not respond, and by doing that fulfilled the prophecy in Isaiah 53:7 - "He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that is before it's shearers is dumb, he opened not his mouth."
Prior to that Jesus told his apostles: "I am the way, the truth, and the life."
...
I never said the Old Testament was "out the window". All Christians teach the history from the beginning, but 'everything changed' with Christ.
-A New Covenant established at the last supper: Luke 22:20 - "This cup is the New Covenant in my blood that will be shed for you."
-The Old Covenant becomes obsolete.
-Christ established his church, and "the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
-Christ's teachings are the way of life for his followers.
-No more Mosaic law.
If you want more details i'd suggest reading the catechism of the Catholic church. The 10 commandments are broken down in detail and explained for anyone interested in that subject.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Let's compare that with Islam and the founder Mohammed who declares he is the only true prophet of god. If you don't follow what he says you will be destroyed...
(Jesus warned us about false prophets to come)
Islam is the arabic word meaning "submission".
Crimes of Mohammed against humanity:
-Massacre of unarmed merchants during sacred month.
-Slaughter of Meccans who came to defend their caravans.
-Murdered poets who criticized Mohammed.
-The siege of the Banu Qaynuqa.
-Surprise raids on trade caravans and tribal settlements.
-Use of the plunder to recruit an ever growing army.
-Murdering of opponents.
-Blackmail.
-Expulsion and massacre of the Jews at Medinah.
-Attack and enslavement of the Jews at Khayber.
-**** of women and children.
-Sale of these victims after ****.
-Treachery and bribery to the fullest extent to grow the numbers of his "religion".
-Coveted, stole, and had sex with his own son's wife.
-Married a 6 yr. old girl and had relations with her at age 9.
-Slept and had sex with a dead woman.
-Taught not to take Jews or Christians as friends.
-Invented fake religion and false god to justify these sick acts.
Islam is an evil religion created by an evil man. I don't hate muslims and i'm not a racist. The religion is the issue here. It goes against everything this great country stands for...
-
Taylor
Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
VIP
Alumni
Supporter
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Whether or not Mohammed is guilty of the crimes above, this guilt does not transfer to 1 billion Muslims. Our Muslim neighbors are pretty average, as are our Jewish neighbors on the other side. They certainly haven't committed any of the actions listed above.
Z
Zin
Guest
*laughs*
Wow... You have some serious blind spots when it comes to your religion.
S
Sadrith Mora
Guest
Ok, Zin...
Where are these "blind spots" that you are referring to that are relevant to this argument?
Could it be because you're afraid of the real truth on the matter that you lash out with an empty argument?
*laughs*
Any rebuttal without content is a waste of time. Is that all you have to say?
Where are these "blind spots" that you are referring to that are relevant to this argument?
Could it be because you're afraid of the real truth on the matter that you lash out with an empty argument?
*laughs*
B
Beer_Cayse
Guest
/signed
Single-mindedness has a purpose but not to that level. It smacks of the same bigotry that Islam and its followers are being accused of.
Single-mindedness has a purpose but not to that level. It smacks of the same bigotry that Islam and its followers are being accused of.
Z
Zezak
Guest
Not to burst anyone's bubble but back then what was done was that girls would be chosen at young ages to be married with a man. Then when they had their periods they were considered ready for sex. This happened all over back then. You are acting like Mohammad was the only man to do this lol. Very normal (not fair or right) occurrence back then.
Wait, I think almost all religions do this (well except now that it isn't tolerated as much).
Basically everything in your list was pretty much commonplace in those days and done by people of all religions (or most).
B
Beer_Cayse
Guest
ahhhh, but ya see it will make no difference to her. You will find that the wall over yonder will have more ability to understand that.
<decides this is the last post in this thread ... am getting too bothered by the bigotry shown by some folks>
<decides this is the last post in this thread ... am getting too bothered by the bigotry shown by some folks>
Z
Zin
Guest
So......... Why did you bother to comment back?
Should I think you are important enough to argue with?
I have no desire to defecate on your religion. But to suggest that it's better than another based on the quoted... *shakes head*
I'm sure that's it.
L
longshanks
Guest
hello
been away a bit and just caught up on this thread. It is very interesting to say the least. I have expressed my opinions. I dont think the community center should be located there. 71 pct of ny'rs agree.
It is sort of funny that people have expressed views that the U.S. is non secular and not built on religion. I will tell you that the U.S. is built on nothing but subjugation, racism, religion and prejudice. This has been the case since we first came here and bushwacked every Indian and indigenous people located across the heartland as well as in Canada and Mexico. The U.S's birth is rooted in violence. 100 years ago Irish were told not to apply. Today the cross hairs are on the Spanish Illegals. We are also guilty of imposing ourselves on other nations militarily and politically.
I'm sorry this thread evolved into the religious discussion complete with quotes (which i am guilty of as well). But it does show how religious fervor can cause a discussion to become an argument and an arguement to morph into violence. Violence done in the name of God (particular God). 9/11, ethnic cleansing in Kosovo, Jewish oppression of the Palestinians... etc, etc.
No one religion does not have guilt on there hands due to violence being caused in there name.
I thought Syrus made a good post a few down. I really believe that 95 pct of the people on this earth really all want the same thing. A loving support group (family, kids et all) and the means to go out and provide support for it. Basically self worth, love and respect.
Unfortunately, the cold hard fact is that the other 5 pct of man has been struggling against each other since the beginning of time. This will continue to go on until the end of time. The end of time for man at least. It's in his nature.
been away a bit and just caught up on this thread. It is very interesting to say the least. I have expressed my opinions. I dont think the community center should be located there. 71 pct of ny'rs agree.
It is sort of funny that people have expressed views that the U.S. is non secular and not built on religion. I will tell you that the U.S. is built on nothing but subjugation, racism, religion and prejudice. This has been the case since we first came here and bushwacked every Indian and indigenous people located across the heartland as well as in Canada and Mexico. The U.S's birth is rooted in violence. 100 years ago Irish were told not to apply. Today the cross hairs are on the Spanish Illegals. We are also guilty of imposing ourselves on other nations militarily and politically.
I'm sorry this thread evolved into the religious discussion complete with quotes (which i am guilty of as well). But it does show how religious fervor can cause a discussion to become an argument and an arguement to morph into violence. Violence done in the name of God (particular God). 9/11, ethnic cleansing in Kosovo, Jewish oppression of the Palestinians... etc, etc.
No one religion does not have guilt on there hands due to violence being caused in there name.
I thought Syrus made a good post a few down. I really believe that 95 pct of the people on this earth really all want the same thing. A loving support group (family, kids et all) and the means to go out and provide support for it. Basically self worth, love and respect.
Unfortunately, the cold hard fact is that the other 5 pct of man has been struggling against each other since the beginning of time. This will continue to go on until the end of time. The end of time for man at least. It's in his nature.
Z
Zin
Guest
We? I was born in 1986. A little late to take the blame for that party. And my family didn't come here until the first decade of the 1900s, so you can't even extrapolate out "sins of the father."
In fact, my family is Italian. An "ethnic" group treated like slaves and lower class citizens long after blacks and natives were granted equal rights in America.
If not for their hard work and pulling themselves up by their bootstraps, they could have, and likely would have, been caught up in the same oppressive forces that keeps many modern day minorities housed in ghettos and working menial tasks.
LOL
The ignorance and bigotry expressed by some posters in this thread is quite awesome.
The Christian pogroms of British Jews...
The Christian-originated blood-libel...
The atrocities of the crusades...
(Of course, these events are historical, but that doesn't seem to matter to you; after all, these crimes were commited by Christians, in the name of Christ, therefore all current-day Christians must be as inherently evil as the current-day muslims)
i am truly amazed okay here goes. we come here to escape england for freedom of religen ,then we slaughter our own , go to war to take over this land, but wait not happy with that we kill each other brother against brother in noth against south,blood lust not over we slaughter the indians and they were here first right of imonate domain. then bloodlust not done we head west put a gun to santa ana's head and say sign over texax or your dead lol we are the first country to drop atomic weapon we have 100 military bases in 85 countries we are the number one arms seller in the world . my god people we had a sh-t fit when russia was putting nukes in cuba!!! but it ok for us to have nukes all over the world but nobody else can??? we invade a sovereign country iraq hmm constitution staes we cannot declare war unless war is declared on us. that was an impeachable offense as well as treason and bush administation should be brought up on charges period, funny the terrorists were mainly from saudi arabia our allie!!!!! we wre attcked by a fction of fanatics not the muslim people. why is it ok to have a christian and catholic church at ground zero i could have sworn that we have the rite to freedom of religion in the usa. have you ever bother to see how many people die in this country at the hands of our own!! we cant even control gangs , murderers, rapists.more peeps dying here than there. if we cant control whats happining in our own country people how the hell can we do it over sees lmao, least we forget timothy mcviegh, the unabomber , etc etc. terorrists?? you better look at you own people we slaughter each other more than they do lol. more people have died in the name of god than all man made wars. be afraid yes be very afraid but be afraid of you own here for we have started more wars by pushing or wait around lol. question would you marry a japanese or a german ??? would you marry a muslim???
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japan and germany declared war on us middle east didnt so i dont understand your bigotist ideals warmongers only know fear tactis want obamas records to prove he is a citizen how do we know that all the white presidents were born her ??? that absolutley the most racist things ive ever heard all his docs are open oddly enough bush jr has sealed all his records never to be viewed why .?? he was a drunk zero till he was forty went ua in servece then 30 days is awol the a year is disertion he should have benn dishonerbly dischared and never able to hold office. and you have aproblem with the mosque being buil please get facts rite the mosque will be built 5 blocks away but the chistian and catholic are rite there ??? as said moer people have died in the chistain wars then man made wars. muslum phobics everywhere i guess the fist amendment means nothing to you.lmao right wing scare tactics lmao
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japan and germany declared war on us middle east didnt so i dont understand your bigotist ideals warmongers only know fear tactis want obamas records to prove he is a citizen how do we know that all the white presidents were born her ??? that absolutley the most racist things ive ever heard all his docs are open oddly enough bush jr has sealed all his records never to be viewed why .?? he was a drunk zero till he was forty went ua in servece then 30 days is awol the a year is disertion he should have benn dishonerbly dischared and never able to hold office. and you have aproblem with the mosque being buil please get facts rite the mosque will be built 5 blocks away but the chistian and catholic are rite there ??? as said moer people have died in the chistain wars then man made wars. muslum phobics everywhere i guess the fist amendment means nothing to you.lmao right wing scare tactics lmao
Z
Zin
Guest
Eh... It's a little hard to make a point with a complete wall of text. But I attempted to read that anyway.
Where did you get that information?
B
Beer_Cayse
Guest
Excerpt from Wikipedia:
===
A declaration of war is a formal declaration issued by a national government indicating that a state of war exists between that nation and another. For the United States, Article One, Section Eight of the Constitution says "Congress shall have power to ... declare War". However, that passage provides no specific format for what form legislation must have in order to be considered a "Declaration of War" nor does the Constitution itself use this term. Many[who?] have postulated "Declaration(s) of War" must contain that phrase as or within the title. Others oppose that reasoning. The postulate has not been tested in court. This article will use the term "formal Declaration of War" to mean Congressional legislation that uses the phrase "Declaration of War" in the title.
The United States has formally declared war against foreign nations five separate times, each upon prior request by the President of the United States. Four of those five declarations came after hostilities had begun.[1] James Madison reported that in the Federal Convention of 1787, the phrase "make war" was changed to "declare war" in order to leave to the Executive the power to repel sudden attacks but not to commence war without the explicit approval of Congress.[2] Debate continues as to the legal extent of the President's authority in this regard.
===
Link for source ... HERE
===
A declaration of war is a formal declaration issued by a national government indicating that a state of war exists between that nation and another. For the United States, Article One, Section Eight of the Constitution says "Congress shall have power to ... declare War". However, that passage provides no specific format for what form legislation must have in order to be considered a "Declaration of War" nor does the Constitution itself use this term. Many[who?] have postulated "Declaration(s) of War" must contain that phrase as or within the title. Others oppose that reasoning. The postulate has not been tested in court. This article will use the term "formal Declaration of War" to mean Congressional legislation that uses the phrase "Declaration of War" in the title.
The United States has formally declared war against foreign nations five separate times, each upon prior request by the President of the United States. Four of those five declarations came after hostilities had begun.[1] James Madison reported that in the Federal Convention of 1787, the phrase "make war" was changed to "declare war" in order to leave to the Executive the power to repel sudden attacks but not to commence war without the explicit approval of Congress.[2] Debate continues as to the legal extent of the President's authority in this regard.
===
Link for source ... HERE
Taylor
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The US hasn't made an official declaration of war since World War II, circa 1940s.
Like it or not, presidential war powers have evolved beyond the constraints of the Constitution, both in US law and in precedent.
Like it or not, presidential war powers have evolved beyond the constraints of the Constitution, both in US law and in precedent.
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Zin
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I agree. I don't believe the US should go to war, unless it's willing to declare it.
Taylor
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I'm torn. On the one hand, I'm a big fan of Sts. Augustine and Aquinas. I find their philosophy intriguing and I agree with their general perspective. However, I'm not 100% sold on the idea of "Just War Theory." This theory tells us that wars must (a) have a just cause, (b) be preventive, (c) be proportional, etc. The theory also condemns discretionary (unprovoked) wars. Although the Bush Administration tried to justify the Iraq invasion as "preemptive," I think that it was probably discretionary.
Here's my hang up: is any war really "moral"? Is there any morality in relations between sovereign states? Sometimes, I think that a state's only real moral obligation is to protect the life, liberty, and property of its own citizens. Sometimes, I view anything above the nation-state level as a state-of-nature situation.
I don't particularly like or approve of my perspective, but I haven't been convinced that there is a standard of morality in international relations. Lucky for all of us (myself included), I never plan to enter politics.
Edit: At the same time, I feel disapproving of discretionary wars, eventhough I'm not convinced of an international-level morality. Why? I dunno, maybe it's written in Natural Law and I just haven't come to terms with it. Hmm...I've thought a lot about this, but I'm still torn. Grr, now I'll be thinking about this all day.
Here's my hang up: is any war really "moral"? Is there any morality in relations between sovereign states? Sometimes, I think that a state's only real moral obligation is to protect the life, liberty, and property of its own citizens. Sometimes, I view anything above the nation-state level as a state-of-nature situation.
I don't particularly like or approve of my perspective, but I haven't been convinced that there is a standard of morality in international relations. Lucky for all of us (myself included), I never plan to enter politics.
Edit: At the same time, I feel disapproving of discretionary wars, eventhough I'm not convinced of an international-level morality. Why? I dunno, maybe it's written in Natural Law and I just haven't come to terms with it. Hmm...I've thought a lot about this, but I'm still torn. Grr, now I'll be thinking about this all day.
L
longshanks
Guest
Bush's move in Iraq was discretionary for sure. They came up with some b.s. arguement about wmd's to explain otherwise but it was a ruse.
I was all for going into Afghanistan to kill bin laden. now we are there to roust the taliban. I could care less about the taliban. i dont care if they have some sharia law and beat there women. not my problem. we should have killed bin ladin and his deputy and gotten out.
imo, we should leave tomorrow and wait for him to come out of his hole and shoot a predator missle down his throat.
Afghanistan is a graveyard of empires. The only thing those people care about is growing poppy and having relations with their livestock.
I was all for going into Afghanistan to kill bin laden. now we are there to roust the taliban. I could care less about the taliban. i dont care if they have some sharia law and beat there women. not my problem. we should have killed bin ladin and his deputy and gotten out.
imo, we should leave tomorrow and wait for him to come out of his hole and shoot a predator missle down his throat.
Afghanistan is a graveyard of empires. The only thing those people care about is growing poppy and having relations with their livestock.
Z
Zin
Guest
It was a war with the primary members of the UN, on Iraqi soil. An economic war if you will. Although, it wasn't a war. *sighs*
Yes. Morality is the only thing worth fighting for when dealing with nations or sovereign states as you put it.
King Arthur in the movie First Knight:
What we hold to be right, and good, and true IS right and good and true for all men. Otherwise we’re just another robber tribe.
I agree with that sentiment.
In saying that... I realize that it is the absolute foundation of the religious terrorists as well. And thus... Why I believe in Moral wars. It's really irrelevant on which one of the factions is "right", as the one that survives will ultimately carry on.
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