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Passive Detect Changes
- Thread starter Bruin
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Timothy_SP
Guest
I would say instead of using Stealing to "enhance" Stealth, use Snooping instead.
This is why I chose "No, implement passive detect only when it's properly adapted to the Siege Ruleset."
I'm not against Passive if it is done correctly. Adding it as-is on Prodo is cutting off your nose to spite you face. Siege IS NOT a Prodo shard and shouldn't be treated as such. So many things added to Prodo shards, that leaked over to us, made things worse.
All I'm saying is that we could do without you spamming up every thread with your nonsense. Spamming and arguing won't get what you want, Draxous. If you can stop spamming and flaming long enough, you will notice that we have accomplished quite a bit since you left our forum. 
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Timothy_SP
Guest
I have to tend to agree with Draxous here. Many people here are past players because they got fed up with Siege being neglected. I'm not sure if this is why you left Draxous or not, but if it is you have the right to voice your opinion.
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MerchantAtHome
Guest
You mean things like the skill timer on detect hidden after passive detect went in there and not here?
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Timothy_SP
Guest
Feel free to jump in any time Cal...Sorry that we have gone so far off track, damn we Siege folk are stubborn. I am backing away from the PD debate until we hear if it considered a LHF.
Woot!
Woot!
S
Sunchicken
Guest
This wouldnt work being as passive reveal bases off their movement not yours. IT IS NEEDED ON SIEGE.
I play a stealth bok on greatlakes. Now im not trying to upset people here but the pvpers on production shards are by better based on averages than here on siege. I do just fine. You gotta watch out for them elfs
It makes it more challenging and isnt that why you people play siege? You have to factor in escape routes with least amount of players, paths to targets, and when to smoke bomb. I personaly like playing my stealth bok on GL, but over here it sucks. I was pvping pretty sucessully at 90 swords.
Passive reveal is based off stealthers hide/stealth vs amount of players and high end monster in the area. I dont think detect is even included in the passive reveal scenario. It makes 100% stealth chance at 80 stealth non excistant, and shouldnt that be the way it was ment to be?
Nothing wrong with stating an opinion. Just seems every thread he posts in seems to erupt because he comes across as a real asshat. Make your point and move on....don't just look to argue and brow beat people when people are trying to get things done.
You tend to say a lot of untrue things to manipulate people.All I'm saying is that we could do without you spamming up every thread with your nonsense. Spamming and arguing won't get what you want, Draxous. If you can stop spamming and flaming long enough, you will notice that we have accomplished quite a bit since you left our forum.
Like your claim that I'm spamming up every thread.
Feel free to stop looking like someone whos obsession with their personal problems with me is more important than the problems on this shard.
Elmer - You're being sort of ridiculous. Of course he's not saying that. Not everyone needs to run it, but one or two could run a template that can wreak havoc on a stealther. You know that.. Gerbiler is a prime example. rolleyes:
Not to mention that there are various other ways to handle stealthers that you have at your disposal. Most of you guys run mages... Poison fields, EQ, Meteor Swarm, etc, not to mention conflag pots. There are a multitude of tools at your disposal, but face it, most of you simply don't want to utilize them. Seems to me like you're all irked that not EVERYONE is an easy kill and like you'd rather nerf stealthers rather than apply yourselves.
Hiding and stealth are defensive skills on their own. What needs "countered" are the other things that are abused when paired with stealth.
While I agree with this, it would eliminate a lot of easy kills for a large number of the pvpers on Siege. That's something we cannot stand for.
Any class should be able to go toe to toe with any other class. Period.
Gerbiler was a stealther too! You talk so often of Ru whos also a stealther! Every example of a player who's effectively been able to counter stealthers has been a player using hiding/stealth too. So we should all be stealthers!?!?
Or we need to have a player in our group dedicate an entire template (ALL the skill points available) to combat a player with just ninja, hiding and stealth.
Or better yet, we need the help of other players to combat ONE stealther.
That is not balanced.
The very players that utilize all of the tools to combat stealthers are telling you they're insufficient to combat stealthers. These players are the best of the best at PvP on this shard telling you that.
Seems to me like you're the one irked at the thought of not being able to abuse this skills anymore.
You can't spin this. It's too overpowered as it is currently.
I like the fact that the most effective thieves are very item dependent.
Naked thieves (no risk for high reward) is the main reason the community was able to demonize the class.
I want thieves to be not only effective in combat, but in stealing as well... while having to take risks.
Having a tight template that in order to be optimally effective requires equipping properly is a great way to bring balance to that class.
Being able to steal optimally without relying on items should require a trade-off of being ineffective in combat.
That is risk versus reward...
Its people like you and Elmer who are the spin doctors on this issue. Anyone with half a brain can see that.
Stealth is not overpowered if you used the tools you've been given to counter it. If you play a mage, you have a number of options to assist you in killing and/or revealing a hidden player. You also have the option of using conflag pots.
I have never once said a player needs all those skills in order to kill/reveal a hidden player.
TaTa Oh mighty Spin Doctor!
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Elmer Fudd
Guest
For the sake of the discussion to further your understanding...ill explain better
1. Conflags dont work unless you run them in tandem with a Detect or track template
2. Ive been hit with EQ's all day long and never revealed as well as MS...and when ive seen EQ or MS being casted, ive had ample time to get the hell out of Dodge...lol AMPLE TIME
3. Posion Fields?? Really? against moving shot archers they just stay out of the poison fields...lol Really? Not to hard just to not run into them....and are you going to use up all your mana to cast 45 of them to reach a 64 square tile base around yourself so they reveal the moving shot archers that just stay within range to hit you, but far enough away to not poison themselves?
and not to mention lets say one does step into it...cure/smoke bomb and By By...LMAO and I had to use up ALL MY MANA FOR THAT??? REALLY???
So let me get this straight? in an already extrmely tight Dexer/mage template to be able to somewhat compete with the OP stealther/Hider/Ninja/Archer or Shay template
I have to make myself even weaker and more useless against those templates just to add Track and Detect which arnt that effective anyway against smoke bomb i might add. Which makes me even MORE vulnurable to said templates....So to effectivally combat an OP Skill set as what your talking about I have to tailor my template just like Shay's or with some slight variations just to compete against it? thats the real truth....cause everyone even you have to admit and even me....ITS SO EASY TO SMOKE AWAY...So basically we all have to run templates to counter a particular skill set? cause the only sure way to hunt and kill all the stealthers is to Run one of two templates to effectivaly combat it....So talk about limiting the field to a universal play style....lets all just play cat and mouse and never leave the house over one play style...when has a skill set determined such a radical movement to combat it? NEVER!
The Hider/Stealther Temp is easy as hell to play for a non-pvper to gain so much reward over very litttle risk...so it understandable for the underdevolped player to enjoy such skills with so little talent to compete.
Now put that very same template into a skilled PvPers hands...and its almost comical how destructive they can be...there have been folks in our guild who have ran said templates and not died in fricking MONTHS....we laughed at how OP it was...
I am by no means the beast PvPer in our guild, and I remember running Red Elmer Fudd as a dismount Stealther Archer and one strech I had...I didnt die for 5 weeks...I remember cause I marked it on my calendar...and the only way i could have done that was because of Hiding/Stealth/Ninja smoke bomb....cause its so fricking easy to not die....lol
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MoonglowMerchant
Guest
That is how (among other things) hide/stealth got screwed up on Siege. Passive detect was implemented on production shards. When they did that, they put a long timer on detect hidden.
That was meant to balance passive detect with active detection. It worked on production shards. The problem is that we got the long timer without the passive detect.
This takes us back to your original point about bleedover...
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Sunchicken
Guest
*coughs* bull****...
Why should somone get 100% benifits from stealth and hiding when you dont have 100% of skills devoted to stealth and hiding. ITS HORSE ****.
YOU would literally **** a watermelon if i got 100% sucess rate at 100 magery 80 eval. so dont go giving me a reach around about OOO ITS FAIR THAT I CAN USE 100 HIDING AND 80 STEALTH AND NEVER FAIL WHEN STEALTHING AROUND 5 PEOPLE. its obsurd.
Oh we're the spin doctors?Its people like you and Elmer who are the spin doctors on this issue. Anyone with half a brain can see that.
Stealth is not overpowered if you used the tools you've been given to counter it. If you play a mage, you have a number of options to assist you in killing and/or revealing a hidden player. You also have the option of using conflag pots.
I have never once said a player needs all those skills in order to kill/reveal a hidden player.
TaTa Oh mighty Spin Doctor!
Then why is it that we've addressed every point that you've brought up, but you haven't addressed ANY of the points we have?
Trying to hide the truth? Don't understand the issue at hand as well as you thought? If these aren't the reasons, then please... fill us in as to why you haven't. We're all dying to know.
If you really believe you're addressing our valid points, then address this post:
I know you won't because you cant.
This game will continue to be tailored to prodoshard. Every addition will be tailored to them. We either align ourselves with them while keeping our core values (1 char slot for player accountability, no tram, full loot, NO EASY-MODE GETTING AWAY aka why we don't have recall!)
So if passive detect was put in to balance hide/stealth on other shards, why on earth does ANYONE here think hide/stealth is balanced without it.
For ****s sake.
Draxous and Sunchicken - Are the two of you such failures that you cannot kill a stealther? If you're having trouble, its because you refuse to use what is available to you. Numerous people have tried to spell it out for you. They have repeatedly addressed your invalid points. If you want easy mode, prodo has what you want. Thats where you've been playing. Go on back... Don't bring it here. 
Besides, debating this is pointless. Take a look at the results of the poll.
Besides, debating this is pointless. Take a look at the results of the poll.
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Bruin
Guest
The purpose of me starting this thread/poll was to inquire as to the pulse of Siege regarding passive detect and possibly including this in the 'letter' to Cal regarding low hanging fruit. As it stands now, about only 38% of the voters are in favor of making any immediate changes to passive detect and therefore will not be included.
Also, there is only a slight majority of people, about 58% who do want any form of passive detect change on Siege. It is obviously a hotly debated subject.
This is something that we will have to intelligently discuss in the coming months as to if we want any change on passive detect and if so, how. Only this way can we present something meaningful to the devs that they hopefully will listen and respond to, if we want any changes.
My personal opinion:
Siege Perilous, the key word there being Perilous, to me is about risk. What Siege offers that other shards do not offer is increased risk. Now risk in itself is not good, but I have always felt that the victories are much sweeter when the risk is greater. This risk manifests itself in many ways on Siege:
- When hunting, you could become the hunted by a pk
- When travelling to a destination, the inability to recall means you must journey there, and that journey brings with it inherint risk.
- The rewards of your hunting are always at risk to being poached by thieves.
- Attempting to slay a monster means you must risk death, and with death you may lose your gear (no insurance here to prevent this risk).
So it's that risk that sets us apart. What's more fun, succeeding at something you have a 100% chance of success at, or succeeding at something you have a 1% chance of success at? The 1% of course. I've done countless rat champs in my time. They're no fun because, I know that we will succeed 100% of the time. Sometimes though, you just do them because it's either something to do or you need/want the scrolls.
However think back to the first time we went up against the big dragon in the abyss. I'd rather do that, and have 20 deathrobes in my pack and NOT be successful than do a rat champ, it's that risk. That is what sets Siege apart and I think that is what we have to hold on to.
So how does Risk go hand in hand with passive detect? Well to me, stealth takes away this risk. Imagine if 20 dragons are guarding a cave. You could get 50 people to take down those dragons to enter the cave. You could stealth into the cave. BUT, you should not be able to stealth past the 20 dragons with ZERO RISK. It should be difficult. There should be a chance you get revealed and eaten alive. Just like if there were 20 murderers guarding the Skara Brae docks. If you decide to stealth past them, there should be a chance to succeed, but there should be some risk that you get caught. What if there was a thief, with 20 people hanging around Luna bank - if a thief had a mark and wanted to hit that mark, they should not be able to stealth past these 20 people in the bank with impunity, there should be some risk! It's like stealthing in the labyrinth for minotaur artifacts, those minotaurs have a chance to passively reveal you so when you stealth past them you have think and plan each of your steps. That is what stealth should be like.
For Siege to thrive, there needs to be a vision of what Siege needs to be. And to me that vision is a shard with additional risk, and thus the rewards taste sweeter. And if this is the vision of Siege we all agree on, then we should all be in favor getting rid of things that remove this risk, such as stealthing with impunity.
Other perfect examples of un-Siege like things that remove this risk - smoke bombs, faction runes, instanced corpses. Yes they all make things easier, but they remove the risk.
Also, there is only a slight majority of people, about 58% who do want any form of passive detect change on Siege. It is obviously a hotly debated subject.
This is something that we will have to intelligently discuss in the coming months as to if we want any change on passive detect and if so, how. Only this way can we present something meaningful to the devs that they hopefully will listen and respond to, if we want any changes.
My personal opinion:
Siege Perilous, the key word there being Perilous, to me is about risk. What Siege offers that other shards do not offer is increased risk. Now risk in itself is not good, but I have always felt that the victories are much sweeter when the risk is greater. This risk manifests itself in many ways on Siege:
- When hunting, you could become the hunted by a pk
- When travelling to a destination, the inability to recall means you must journey there, and that journey brings with it inherint risk.
- The rewards of your hunting are always at risk to being poached by thieves.
- Attempting to slay a monster means you must risk death, and with death you may lose your gear (no insurance here to prevent this risk).
So it's that risk that sets us apart. What's more fun, succeeding at something you have a 100% chance of success at, or succeeding at something you have a 1% chance of success at? The 1% of course. I've done countless rat champs in my time. They're no fun because, I know that we will succeed 100% of the time. Sometimes though, you just do them because it's either something to do or you need/want the scrolls.
However think back to the first time we went up against the big dragon in the abyss. I'd rather do that, and have 20 deathrobes in my pack and NOT be successful than do a rat champ, it's that risk. That is what sets Siege apart and I think that is what we have to hold on to.
So how does Risk go hand in hand with passive detect? Well to me, stealth takes away this risk. Imagine if 20 dragons are guarding a cave. You could get 50 people to take down those dragons to enter the cave. You could stealth into the cave. BUT, you should not be able to stealth past the 20 dragons with ZERO RISK. It should be difficult. There should be a chance you get revealed and eaten alive. Just like if there were 20 murderers guarding the Skara Brae docks. If you decide to stealth past them, there should be a chance to succeed, but there should be some risk that you get caught. What if there was a thief, with 20 people hanging around Luna bank - if a thief had a mark and wanted to hit that mark, they should not be able to stealth past these 20 people in the bank with impunity, there should be some risk! It's like stealthing in the labyrinth for minotaur artifacts, those minotaurs have a chance to passively reveal you so when you stealth past them you have think and plan each of your steps. That is what stealth should be like.
For Siege to thrive, there needs to be a vision of what Siege needs to be. And to me that vision is a shard with additional risk, and thus the rewards taste sweeter. And if this is the vision of Siege we all agree on, then we should all be in favor getting rid of things that remove this risk, such as stealthing with impunity.
Other perfect examples of un-Siege like things that remove this risk - smoke bombs, faction runes, instanced corpses. Yes they all make things easier, but they remove the risk.
Not every change made is made to cater to the majority.
Changes are also made to make this game equally enjoyable to all the playstyles. Equally means balance. The devs constantly make changes to balance the game that a lot of people vocally complain about. Because they were sitting pretty while someone else was getting pooped on.
A game like this. A shard like this. CANNOT be healthy when it caters to a specific group of people more than it caters to another.
You want to know why you don't see role players? It's because someone else was being catered to at their expense. You couldn't wear an orc mask without handicapping yourself on Siege. You want to know why you don't see people in town? It's because someone else was being catered to at their expense. You can't hang out in town without getting picked on or screwed with. There is no place where EVERYONE, even enemies can go to lay down their swords.
You NEED a little slice of trammel on even siege. The problem is that we've placed it in everyones home. In everyones mind there should be no safe place except for your very own private one. You completely killed one way for EVERYONE to socialize. We force getting pked down everyones throat. Why can't we force hanging out. Oh wait, we socialize here. On a message forum. Yes. Hanging out with other players on here is way cooler than hanging out with other players in game.[/sarcasm.
Why the hell do people play on Siege. We are here because Ultima Online decided to cater to the trammel folks and they carved this slice for us. They tailor this game to them not us. Well we feluccans love this game too. We have a place in this game too. They have so much cool **** and potential here that most people here don't even get a chance to freaking experience.
And people should be allowed to experience it. Even the feluccans.
Again.....I hear everyone complaining about "Balance" and how stealthing is overpowering. Again.....its not an overpowering template. It's not like I'm able to kill everyone on this game just because I have hiding and stealth. I don't even use smoke bombs 1 vs 1, nor do I use hide/stealth 1 vs 1. All I need to do is run and heal like any other dexxer. I use hide/stealth to evade dismount gank squads. 1 vs 1.....I don't mind being dismounted by any char temp, but yes, I'll smoke bomb so I don't get massed my 2 to 3 mages with zero chance to survive.
I mean.....if balance is what everyone is wanting, then again, we have more things to discuss other than hide/stealth. There are pro's and con's to all templates for 1 vs 1, or even 5 vs 5 on the field. Field fights are all about different templates complimenting each other. A dexxer is completely vunerable and pretty much dead once he's dismounted. A mage has different spells which gives them an opportunity to survive. Seeing that most fights take place in Luna, Mages teleports to the wall away from dexxers or even pets, they can even cast invis. Another example, a mage with protection in a 1 vs 1 is overpowering. A dexxer is not able to produce enough damage fast enough against a mage with protection, max DCI, and high HP.
I don't hear anyone complaining about over powering templates when its a template they enjoy playing. It's always and will always be people complaining about certain temps if its a template they don't enjoy playing.
So list them. If you have concerns, then list them logically. Cite what's the problem and why. And then tell us what you think a practical solution is aka something you think is low hanging fruit.
I think with something like poisoning. When they made potions stackable, it became a problem and no solution has been suggested or even talked about.
I think with something like dexers. When 1 handed weapons like cleavers or a wooden stick are more useful than a 2 handed halberd. When archers get to run 2 handed weapons and drink pots, but regular dexers can't. When archers get all the advantages of melee'rs, special moves, drinking pots, high damage, fast speed, but not of the draw backs like having to stand next to your opponent to hit them. Having to stand next to your opponent to dismount them.
I think with something like archer dismount. Double clicking someone from anywhere on the screen is too easy. Bolas can't do that anymore for a reason. Dismounts with lances were removed for a reason, but balanced bows that ninjas use to do the same thing lances did don't are a-ok?
I have no practical solutions (aka LHF) to offer for any of these problems. Maybe a discussion would yield some ideas so get the ball rolling mono.
I brought up passive detect because. I've played and play with passive detect. It works. It's a practical solution. It balances risk vs reward.
People need to stop trying to tear down and build... nothing.
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HaHa
Guest
Well at this point it looks like 41% are against passive detect and 59% are for some type of passive detect.
S
Sunchicken
Guest
You are 100% correctDraxous and Sunchicken - Are the two of you such failures that you cannot kill a stealther? If you're having trouble, its because you refuse to use what is available to you. Numerous people have tried to spell it out for you. They have repeatedly addressed your invalid points. If you want easy mode, prodo has what you want. Thats where you've been playing. Go on back... Don't bring it here.
Besides, debating this is pointless. Take a look at the results of the poll.
The fact that I cant kill scrubb ass stealthers on this shard that cry at the thought of evening the playing field speaks volume about the need of passive reveal...
How is my point of getting 100% benifits out hide and stealth while only using 80% of the total skill points required to cap invalid?
The fact that there is no other skill pairing that this is possible proves this
IF they say no to the passive reveal change then Stealth should be based on mod weight of armour instead of armour type.
For the record the only thing harder about siege than prodo is the fact that you cant push through monster spawns in the abyss...
Numbers do not lie, Siege wants some form of passive detect...
Cal if its an easy fix please do it.
Adding passive detect to sp will not bring more ppl here i think it would be best to do what brings ppl to sp and the easiest first
Based on what.
If a faction base was broken. Would you say the same thing? Oh, it won't bring people here to this broken shard... let's not fix it.
And you must have skipped over the posts even in this thread that ex-players have said they would consider playing again if this was addressed.
If the LHF and this was addressed. I'd start playing here again.
Agreed, I have seen no good arguments to introduce passive detect. Making the detect hidden skill more effective may be an answer but that is for later. How can the devs fix what is wrong if even we cannot agree what is wrong? We have made a list of priorities for Siege. Let's keep pushing them and stop bickering over other issues.
Agreed! Plus, even if you lump the first 3 options together assuming they would all want prodo passive detect [and thats a big assumption!], its still not a large majority. Doing something against the wishes of so many players isn't a good idea when many of us are just barely haning on and holding out for some serious help for Siege.
Furthermore, while I do agree that PvP is in need of some changes, I think we have already agreed on some pretty serious changes that will go a long way to improving things for that segment of the population. I'd rather focus more on the types of improvements that will help bring in new players, since that is by far our largest problem. So far, all we have is blackrock... and even that is iffy.
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Black magick
Guest
Passive detect is in the spirit of Siege, as Bruin already pointed out. Why the hell is anyone going to come here when this is supposed to be the pvp/no safe zone shard and so many people are using a watered down version of trammel? (aka stealth)
Because there is way more serious issues to sp then passive detect which involves pvp
And if we fix passive detect will that bring pvm, roleplayers, and crafters?
No it wont do things to sp to help bring pvp, pvm, crafters, and roleplayers i dont know how to say it anymore clearly quit being selfish and think of EVERYONE
Im pretty sure bruin and kat made a list already and passive detect was nowhere near important as the things on this list and you know why? Because it helped everyone just not pvpers until the pvpers learn this the shard will continue to be dying
B
Black magick
Guest
Stealth is bs pvp and pvm. Btw, know who plays what. I'm a thief, I USE STEALTH. Its overpowered as hell. I can run into a champ spawn naked and remain on the island alive with detect being spammed, steal a scroll and get out alive. This is a testament to how overpowered stealth is. Before we try to get people to come here why don't we try fixing things that WILL chase them away. Btw, you should learn the issues that have driven people away before you criticize any issue on its importance.
Lets try getting them here first because i dont think im gonna see a pvm, roleplayer or pvm say passive detect ran them from sp which leads me back to what ive been saying for the last three posts lets worry about things that bring everyone here instead of 2 facets of the game and i dont think theives need to be nerfed anymore than they already have
Sorry sp involves more than pvp im pretty sure i atleast know that and until everyone figures that out sp will continue to die
As i stated before bruin and kat ran numerous polls on what everyone thought would BRING THE MOST people to sp and passive detect was not one of them lets work on the list first please
Thats funny. You have rarely made it out of a TnT spawn with a scroll or alive. Stop acting like stealthers are godly little critters that are unkillable. That is absolutely NOT TRUE. Are they annoying? HELL YES, but unkillable? FAR FROM IT.
B
Black magick
Guest
Why would a pvmer, roleplayer, or crafter take Siege over a prodo shard? The added danger from pvpers/pkers. So whether you want to admit it or not pvp plays a massive part in what makes siege what it is.
Plenty of people come, very few stay. Why? Maybe everyone using stealth is a part of it? I hear a lot of new players complain that I'm the first person they've seen since they made their character X hours, or even days, ago. Kinda sad ain't it?
A pvmer would come here for freedom and not waiting to do things like on a prodo shard ( go run night eyes and tell me how that goes)
A roleplayer would come here for the close community
A crafter would come here for better economy
Yes pvp is a big part of sp but not the only thing
Let me repeat once more. This is not testament to how overpowered stealth is. It is testament to how underpowered detect hidden is. The answer is not passive detect but to improve the detect hidden skill. Make those who want to detect stealthers sacrifice something on their template and not get something for nothing.
F
Førsaken
Guest
For every stealther crying about passive detect in this thread, you're all horrible and need a crutch-Period.
Every excuse and argument I've seen against passive detect in this thread are just as horrible as your ability to PvP.
Why is it that I can run a stealth template and have no problem with passive detect? Oh, is it really because I'm good and you're not? You really want to say that?
Enjoy your continuous failing all while having a crutch.
Every excuse and argument I've seen against passive detect in this thread are just as horrible as your ability to PvP.
Why is it that I can run a stealth template and have no problem with passive detect? Oh, is it really because I'm good and you're not? You really want to say that?
Enjoy your continuous failing all while having a crutch.
B
Black magick
Guest
Rarely? As I recall I've went to a tnt spawn/harry 3 times, first time I made it out with a 120. Harrower I stole a 15 stat and made and ran into a dead end. Final one I got dual eq'd and died. During all of that I was naked, with no pots and no smoke bombs. (never actually used a smoke bomb other than to make a macro) Shall we try fully equipped, armed, and with max dci? I'm pretty sure I would be pretty damn hard to kill even as a thief with limited fighting capacity.
@JC, it is a testament to how overpowered stealth is when a player can get an area that a visible player couldn't without dying. With no risk at all. Since you know about how passive reveal works, why don't you enlighten the crowd? Or could it be you're just hopping the bandwagon so you can keep your safety net, without a real clue what's being lobbied for?
@Nike, A pvmer could also go to one of the less populated shards and achieve the same.
A roleplayer... Are there any roleplayers left? Other shards have much better roleplaying communities than Siege.
It's much easier to make it as a crafter on prodo than here, especially with imbuing and the vast wealth of resources that are pretty easily accessible. Sure things cost more, but you earn more as well.
Why Siege? The added danger from pks, and the no safe areas. (oh wait, there's stealth for that...)
Hows this for an argument.
Come up with a better idea that addresses the problem or accept that passive detect is the best way to address the problem.
You tear down and build... nothing.
Not happy about the idea of passive detect? Then do something constructive about it.
It's been brought up that new players who come here asking "where are all the people" are told most players here are hidden.
Yes. A community of invisible people really helps bring new players to this shard. A community of people who avoid interacting with others, brings new players to this shard. Yes. Awesome.
You'll notice kats still throwing her 2 cents in on this issue and still hasn't addressed the valid points on why this is a problem. This is not just a PvP issue. This is the same issue that has caused all the other problems: Catering to one group at the expense of another.
And if blackrock is the only thing my votes counts for - consider it rescinded on that stupid idea. I was only supporting it because monster loot and faction prices were being addressed. I will not support a stupid event that caters to existing players more than new ones and solves no problems the CURRENT population deals with and doesn't play on this shard because of.
Who the hell will want to come to a shard that the CURRENT people that want to play it... aren't because they're sick of how utterly broken it is.
Period.
This shard needs safe areas. The problem is they've put the safe areas in the wrong place. On a characters template and in players homes.
Instead of having a city you can go to hang out with other players without worrying about getting killed. They send you home or make you invisible to the rest of the world.
It's backwards. Homes should be siege-able if not locked down and secured by the owner. Players wandering the wilderness should risk getting found and killed. Players should have a place to go, where everyone can lay down their swords and hang out.
Build the community. Move away from this segregated, individualized, broken, counterproductive system of personal safe havens.